Live Breakdown - S2E2 House of the Dragon - the AfterMath

‪@GreyWasteTim‬ and ‪@girlnettles‬ join me to do a full breakdown / live discussion of S2ep2 pf House of the Dragon! As usual, we'll have lots of live polls and chat interaction going on, as we're trying to make this the place where you can give your takes as well as hearing ours! Plus we'll have ANOGRION Viserys Lego City t-shirts ready for you!
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[@SlytherinShark888]

The cycles of family trauma hit so close to home. Immediate tears seeing how directly Otto's inability to actually care for Alicent and receive her guilt closed her off so much that she couldn't comfort her grieving son after the loss of her grandson. Kudos to writer Sara Hess and director Clare Kilner.

[@DavidLightbringer]

well said!

[@drakethesnek6429]

Nah, that was too on the nose for me.

[@Phoenixonfire31]

Ehhh he really has nothing to gain from hearing her confess.. by 2024 standards sure ya terrible dad status but in his position … idk .. also he prolly high key knows/ suspects

[@Phoenixonfire31]

But ya alicent failing to at least OFFER her love and support to a hysterical aegon.. of course giving him the option to send her away… was so wrong / cold

[@jaythebookfiend1541]

The way she rolled the funeral procession proposition to Helaena after Otto steamrolled Aegon’s objections and her own paltry balking rang chillingly true. The writers clearly have grasp on the dark complexities of ‘dancing on the strings of those who’ve gone before.’

[@bloodyneptune]

Ottos slow, Bea Arthur style head turn when Aegon told him Cole had 'acted' was _hilarious_ 😂

[@Phoenixonfire31]

My favorite series facial expressions in the franchise possibly

[@WeaselSoup-su5yu]

The thing about Alicent not knowing how to comfort her own children is that she never knew how to do that, even when they were babies. In season one we saw several times Alicent holding a crying child and just awkwardly bouncing them up and down, and not in a gentle way. That may have been partly due to youth and inexperience, but I don’t think she was ever really connected to them. She had them for the sake of the crown, not because she wanted them. I don’t think it’s all on Otto, though he certainly contributed to her stunted ability to form emotional maternal attachments.

[@jessjess23brooks89]

Out of the entire family, Otto was the only one that even attempted to comfort. He was rejected, but he did try. Alicent definitely seems to have aversion to physical comfort. Otto is just awkward. However, that aversion is Otto's fault. She was a teen sold to an old man who crawled his rotting body on top of her for years. However, she still has a responsibility as an adult for not facing these issues and helping her children before it's too late.

[@0ceanque3n]

I feel like she doesn’t know how to comfort her kids because she didn’t want them in the first place. I mean eventually she wanted to be a mom but not then and not with viserys, I’m not an Alicent fan but I feel a little pity for her

[@menaphil9178]

​@kayjayhayThis breakdown 👏

[@Anonymousringwraith]

She wasn't this bad in season 1. Season 2 Alicent is more interested in getting d than comforting her children. The way they are playing it though, I think her relationship with Cole will end up backfiring on Alicent because they are already foreshadowing that they will be found out.

[@josha_]

Why do yall think aegon was crying at the end? Was it due to his son? Or was is because Otto revealed to him that his dad didn’t think highly of him and didn’t pick him to be king

[@eldric.stoneskin]

Feels like Otto only missed Viserys’ pliability, he liked having a king that the hand could guide as opposed to the other way around

[@realdaggerman105]

If Aegon was like Viserys the Dance would not have happened.

[@jessjess23brooks89]

I think it's a combination of things. They had a very complicated relationship. They knew each other most of their lives. I think he misses his friend, or as close to a friend as Otto can muster. And he also misses manipulating that friend.

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

Probably both. Viserys wanted to avoid war and conflict and wanted to keep peace. That is not part of being manipulated, But Otto definitely also misses being able to manipulate more easily. That didn't stop him from betraying that friend. he has shown clearly in this episode he knows that whatever Alicent heard, it wasn't actually Viserys wanting Aegon to be king

[@Zach-sx8cm]

I know! It’s insane that I’m thinking “man I’d rather have Otto in charge. Things wouldn’t be as ugly and violent.” What a world we live in!

[@TihetrisWeathersby]

The Twins death gutted me, Brotherhood is sacred

[@cherylbaxter8986]

As did I as I only saw that when I got home so watched my recording 😢 I couldn't watch the stream properly to much interference from internet

[@wallybonejengles5595]

If only he had gotten there before he went in. If only they could have agreed to disagree and agreed to grab a boat and mess off to the Summer Islands or Essos. They could have been sipping Arbor Red with Laenor on the high seas... Duty is the death of love...

[@Phoenixonfire31]

I was CRYINGGGG

[@swayback7375]

lol… tell my brother it’s sacred… Sone people are just not good or are really messed up… and those have families, they’re usually the first and biggest target.

[@faffy515]

I cryed too when Erryk took his own life! I was very surprised with how I was moved but this scene.I was not that invested in these characters!😮

[@christopherwichman7968]

Rip Cargyll Twins

[@patforden-kc6xn]

😭

[@xqrs213]

Tragic😢😢

[@NickAgatha]

The comedy in Season 2 is just incredible. The whole scene where those two idiots play off each other's dumb ideas and Otto is getting visibly stunned by the shockwaves of their sheer stupidity is so funny. "And one guilty one." "He's going to pretend he's his twin. Brilliant".

[@bloodravenn8305]

It was actually brilliant, and It almost worked if Mysaria haden't been there, Otto was just annoyed It happened without his approval or that he didn't come up with the idea, i

[@swayback7375]

I’m not sure it was brilliant, proven by the results we see… but it was a death sentence to order one to do it, likely death sentence to both with questionable loyalty, so from that point of view not so smart… had it worked perfectly it would have still would have made the greens look very bad, tge way the blacks look now. Not to mention the plan is working on a flawed idea, if they kill rhynera it won’t end the war, it would likely be an end to all peace until there’s no one left standing to fight…

[@miaallen6161]

@@bloodravenn8305 I don't know.. I think the foundation of the plan was smart, but the execution of the plan was moronic. There are far more ways the plan goes bad than ways it could work out. Literally there were so many other ways Arryk could have been caught without Mysaria. They betted on everything going in their favor and seemed to not consider any of the ways it would awry and Otto knew this. Which all adds up because Criston is just throwing mismatched pieces together hoping it will create some semblance of a way to get himself out of the deep shit he's in. Had they at least consulted Otto it could have been successful but then, killing Rhaenyra doesn't end the war. there's still Daemon and the rest of the blacks to worry about. If they had used Arryk and a few other men in a more cunning and calculated way they maybe could have picked doff a few of team black. Instead they lost two good kings guard.

[@spartanoreo5075]

It actually worked more accurately than Daemon's poor attempt at the Aemond assassination. If Mysaria did not show up, he would have killed her, as only she would have spotted him, as shown in the show.

[@miaallen6161]

@@spartanoreo5075 There's definitely no denying that B&C in the show specifically is an idiotic plan, though in the books its more thought out and intentional, but I think you're missing my point with the arryk/erryk plan and why its so foolish. It just *so happens* that the events unfold the way they do, and from **our perspective** it seems to make some sense but you have to actually consider the infinite amount of variables that could have caused Cristons plan to go awry. Mind you, Criston AND Arryk both acknowledge that it is a stupid plan and a suidice mission, because of what I'm saying: the ways it can go wrong completely outweigh the ways it can work, and that is because it JUST so happened that Aryk isn't in Erryk's direct line of sight when he comes into the castle, that the guards dont further question him knowing Erryk is supposed to be in the castle, that only Mysaria notices, that Rhaenyra is even in her bed chambers and not elsewhere entirely, that it wasn't ERRYK himself standing watch at Rhaenyra's door, you starting to see where I'm going with this? I can keep going.

[@cardboard2night]

I was laughing about almost all of Otto's lines, when he turned around and asked "What did ser Cole do?" and when he straight said to his daughter "I rather not you don't tell me" - the show became a comedy to me at this point, like fully. GoT had some fun moments, and they "tried" to be comidic in later seasons, but this, this was chef's kiss!

[@julieloucalcote1368]

Agreed!

[@lucaschapel7197]

Quick side note - The "hot milk" comment - Aemond is drinking a milk-like substance whist in the brothel. He also very much looked like he was under the influence of strong opates. My understanding is that the beverage contains some form of milk of the poppy, in order to space Aemond out and make him feel / feel vulnerable with the sex worker. There's also all the mother's milk / mummy issues connotations going on.

[@DavidLightbringer]

I think you might be right! great call

[@doctorajaguar]

Must be the same drink from the Korova Milk bar from an Orange Clockwork

[@MI75436]

I was wondering where will that information go, I doubt it will just stay with the sex worker. Will Larrys know ?

[@jaclynfairhead5848]

Aemond was definitely seeking comfort from a mother figure.

[@lucaschapel7197]

@@jaclynfairhead5848 - Absolutely, and that goes back to the over-arching theme of the Hightower family being unable to express love and comfort to each other.

[@Zach-sx8cm]

My favorite moment of the episode was the absolute banger line by Aegon, "I have dared, and I find it stimulating". What a statement. Says A LOT.

[@julieloucalcote1368]

Top comment!

[@CameronkAK]

That moment alone made me like him.

[@motorcitymangababe]

I was like "oh look, Otto's worst nightmare!" I love it lolol

[@NickAgatha]

I just find it hysterical that everyone in the show is thinking "Who could have done such a horrible thing?" and the moment their eyes fall on Daemon, they immediately go "Oh shit, it was you. Of course you did that shit." I mean Rhaenys takes one look at Daemon and it's in her face. "Come on, now, I'm not even going to ask you if you did." Rhaenyra then takes one look at Daemon's face and you can actually see it in her face go "No fucking way you did that shit, shit, what am I saying, of course you fucking did, I can't fucking believe you".

[@Phoenixonfire31]

Yesss this 1000%

[@cearathomas930]

All I was getting was "please please please, don't embarrassment motherfucker" vibes😂

[@TihetrisWeathersby]

I don't care about awards but Elliot and Luke Tittensor deserve something, Brilliant performance. I remember watching them as kids in shameless uk and they've come so far.

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

That scene was visceral and amazing. I don't like fighting scenes in general but i watched every second of this. In the books it is not this detailed. I did not expect the ending being just like that

[@aryanak1234]

Dave, Tim and Nettles are the trio I didn’t know I needed

[@DavidLightbringer]

glad to hear!

[@namonibblonian]

Halaena had the best performance this week, visceral, amazing and haunting performance. Big credit to the actress. Otto is Tywin at home. Thanks Nettles, Tim and Dave!! Love these post game shows. Any chance we'll get our squisher badges back?

[@bloodyneptune]

When they showed Cheese's dog I literally said, out loud, "why the fck did they have to show me _that?!"_ that was _upsetting,_ poor doggie, not understanding why his human isnt coming to give him pets. I just made myself cry. A child had his head sawed off last week but I cried over the sad dog. I should bring this up to my therapist

[@Phoenixonfire31]

LITERALLYY SAMEEE the fkn episode was SAD / HEART WRENCHING enougg

[@bloodyneptune]

@Phoenixonfire31 Right?! Was there not _enough_ without bringing a sad dog into it?? I feel like this show really doesn't like us sometimes

[@DaJalster28]

"not tryna body shame im skinny too" ... "Targeryans are supposed to look like emaciated vampires anyway" I died laughing at this. - another skinny dude.

[@Zach-sx8cm]

He’s not wrong tho. Poor Aemond was looking emaciated. Gave me flashbacks to a certain character in the afterlife in Harry Potter

[@wallybonejengles5595]

Hot D really helping a brother out these days. Stuck at the graveyard shift watching it lol. Then I get to come here. Fr half my shift us gone and i appreciate you.

[@wallybonejengles5595]

This one had a lot of tough moments. The procession. The twins. What got me the most was Alicent leaving Aegon alone like that. Would you just be his mom? That's what he needs right now. He's lashing out against the world, and he doesn't want to hear Otto or the counsel. And you find him so vulnerable and broken down, and you just leave him. Aegon is a scumbag. But he finally cared about something. He left his own bastards to rot of sepsis in flea bottom fighting pits and pleasire houses. The ONLY thing he cared about was being better to his Prince-Son than Dad was to him. It almost feels like the writers are doing too much to make me hate her. She's gotta be asking herself what this was all for?

[@peterfields2179]

What night shift job do you do where you can watch TV and KZbin? Haha I want it

[@mizchaos13]

​@wallybonejengles5595 honestly? I don't think she knows how to comfort him; she doesn't know how to connect with her kids. She can't be the mother he needs because she didn't have that sort of parent growing up.

[@wallybonejengles5595]

ONLY the dog mourned the nameless Rat Catcher. Known only to history as Cheese. Even in ASOIAF. The good boys are the goodest boys. That one kinda cut me too.

[@wallybonejengles5595]

I know I know he keeps going. I couldn't help but notice and the look I would describe Criston Cole having this week is "gormless". He looks like gormless Jon Snow from season 1. Bro is so lost.

[@WildeMermaid]

The anxiety & overwhelm/overload Helaena was experiencing during the funeral parade was so palpable. As an Autistic person myself, i think she portrayed that so well... i could feel it. I was so scared that baby was going to fall out (or his head) when they got stuck in that pothole. It was so uncomfortable, intimate, & heartbreaking to watch. She was so very alone while being completely surrounded. I like that Aemond confessed his accident/guilt over Luce's death. 100% agree with Tim about Daemon

[@girlnettles]

It also shows that Helaena is a “good sport” and actually can mask very well. Even Aegon didn’t go.

[@WeaselSoup-su5yu]

I was/still am pissed that Helena, who witnessed her son being brutally murdered was forced to ride through the streets behind the child’s body while Aegon “must be spared.” I get it; I just hate it.

[@katemoon1594]

Lol. Alicent & Criston starring in 50 Shades of Green... 🤣

[@quaithe1]

This was the best episode so far, no joke. They writing is *finally* actually concerned with small folk and talking about how to rule, rather than the whole show being a soap opera about who's banging whom.

[@MrHws5mp]

Can we just take a minute to commiserate with the modelmakers who had to build that beautiful Valeria model, only to have to watch it smashed to bits? I hope they knew from the start of S1E1 that that was going to happen so they didn't get too attached to it. Yes, I'm a modelmaker...

[@DavidLightbringer]

I bet they didn't smash the one they built

[@MrHws5mp]

@@DavidLightbringer Hmm... it depends how much pre-planning was done before S1, how much pre-production time they had before S2, and how much warning the showrunner/director gave them. I've heard of directors having a spontaneous idea to smash up a model, doing it 10 minutes later, and the model-makers finding out the next week...

[@WeaselSoup-su5yu]

If you watch the House the Dragons Built, you find that they made a separate model just for smashing.

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

I watched behind the episode, they built a lighter copy for it to be smashed

[@Adamantium93]

​@@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195Yeah, props that are meant to be broken on screen are made differently so they break in safe and satisfying ways. Usually they won't work for the prop's intended purpose, but they look real enough for the small amount of time the audience will see them before being broken.

[@Nobodycares678]

Superb episode of television. The acting has been exceptional

[@kikijane96]

Really love @GreyWasteTim's point at 28:54. It's a great take on the funeral scene, how the media portrays tragedy, and the parallels to school shootings. As a Brit (but a non-Royalist I must add), I felt the funeral scene had heavy parallels to the funeral of Princess Diana and the controversy around the young Princes being forced to walk behind the coffin for the world to see.

[@marshameyer1804]

And this is how we get to cats in the Red Keep rather than rat-catchers!

[@safiyahnoorpage7206]

I loved the juxtaposition of Rhaenyra &Daemon scene about trust that was dialogue driven and the non verbal fight between Alicent&Criston. Alicent was making the exact same allegations against Criston that Rhaenyra made against Daemon. Once spoken forget sex and is what silenced Alicent.

[@julieloucalcote1368]

Good point!

[@WeaselSoup-su5yu]

I don’t have nearly as much sympathy for Daemon as most seem to. He’s like the star football jock, clean cut All American guy who beats his girlfriend. When he finally gets caught and might have to pay a price, people rally around him and he gets a slap on the wrist to protect his future. Ew.

[@TaliVarda100706]

Yeah I agree. I think most of the love and sympathy for Daemon comes from the fact he's played by Matt Smith

[@bloodyneptune]

@TaliVarda100706 Oh for _sure._ He was my favorite character purley based on the acting. I've switched allegiances to Aegon for the same reason (Aemonds really great, too, but I think his issues might be too weird for me)

[@WeaselSoup-su5yu]

@@SaneMillennial he killed one wife and tried to choke out another. He beat a messenger within an inch of his life (if he didn’t outright kill him; I’m not really sure) because he was pissy about the fact that he was losing his war. Sorry, I’m just not going to apologize for Daemon.

[@MrHws5mp]

While Nettles is generally right about people who've seen a real war never wanting to do it again, there are a significant number of people who react the opposite way. Some people get addicted to the adrenaline rush of being in _actual_ (as opposed to simulated) mortal danger and it gets it's hooks into them deep. Some journalists have found this: they become war correspondents, see the most messed-up stuff you can possibly imagine, and then... never want to be anything other than a war correspondent. Mercenary groups are full of people with a similar psychology. Yes, some are there just for the money, but many are army vets who've said "never again", left the army, and then five years later they're signing on with a merc group or a "private security" company, because nothing in civilian life seems as meaningful or can give them the same buzz.

[@girlnettles]

Agreed! My husband is a vet. I asked him “weren’t you happy on the day you got to come back to the states and live a normal life?” And he said it was hollow and sad because he had no one to protect anymore. He went to having the biggest purpose to no purpose. I told him, he can protect me. Because I’m small and un-aware of my surroundings. I’ve made it so long because I’m blessed and highly favored. I’m clumsy, easily distracted, and have no muscle mass. 😂😂 just pitiful. Of course, my man identifies with the Hound, Jorah, and Jaime. And he acts like that around me. My shield. A shadow that looms over and stops me from final destination type of ends. Tee hee hee He likes this life better; but through knowing him it has opened my eyes to how many people go back into service (in many different dangerous fields) and go back to the danger.

[@WeaselSoup-su5yu]

I’ve also known people who came back with survivor’s guilt which makes them want to go back. 😢

[@MrHws5mp]

@@girlnettles LOL - Bless you, though it sounds like your husband is the blessing. Another thing is that, if they joined up at 18, many vets have never known any life except the highly regimented life of the armed services. They've ALWAYS been told where to go and what to do and had their housing, clothing and food provided for them. When they get out, they find that they can't cope. They literally don't know how to do "normal life", the adjustment period can be long and the results disappointing and stressful. Modern, well-funded armies these days are better at transitioning soldiers back to normal life with education programmes and the like, rather than just "dumping them on the street", but it's still a problem in porrer ones and it was a problem with all of them in the past.

[@girlnettles]

@@MrHws5mp I used to work in the governor’s office in Florida. I specifically oversaw veteran’s affairs and it’s so sad. From what I have seen, the government is a hindrance more than a help (the forms and red tape!). The good care that vets get come from charities and businesses created by vets.

[@MrHws5mp]

@@girlnettles Here in the UK I get the impression that the Army/MoD is pretty decent at preparing service people before they leave, but afterwards it's hit and miss and charities, much as you describe.

[@amirhad6594]

Hugh and his wife discussing inflation felt so realistic and relatable 😢 Don't know what the situation is on your side of the Atlantic ocean, but European cost of living has just been rising relentlessly since invasion of Ukraine. No Ukrainian grain, and no Russian fossil fuels, and working class across Europe has been scraping the bottom for the last two years 💀

[@TheRyssaRave]

I'm going through it after this episode, a roller coaster of emotions and all boiling into rage.

[@Nobodycares678]

Rhys, Phia, Emma, Tom, Matt Wow just wow. So good

[@anna_luin]

Great stream! Gutted I am missing the lives at the moment but time differences mean episodes air at lunchtime Monday. Special shout out to Rhaenys this episode. When Rhaenyra is being questioned she gives off the biggest back the f**k up energy off. 🥰🥰

[@amandaofhouserobinson6707]

Lol! Me too Monday 11am. I've changed my shifts at work to make sure I'm home to watch it live!! How ridiculous is that! Lol ❤😊

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

45:20 I really love that you mentioned Gray Area! That point by her was so amazing

[@Phoenixonfire31]

Loved that he wanted his lover to just hold/ cuddle him

[@chappy1116]

This episode was just the epitome of what I've loved about HOTD, and what makes it so different from GOT. Since GOT is a bit more "big picture," we don't really get quite as many of these intimate moments. HOTD is so personal. This was fantastic. They all continue to absolutely crush it.

[@amiraameera8302]

I felt like the moment in the parade was Alicent trying to reach out to Helena, who is the only child she still identifies with, for mutual comfort, but she doesn't seem to be able to connect with her in any meaningful way anymore. Like that plus the guilt over being with Cole when it happened is devastating for her.

[@VeggieVampires]

You’ve really hit your stride as a trio here, such great camaraderie and a great way to keep the hype going throughout the week. Thanks all!

[@tyrroo]

Oooh, that comparison to the Kardashian family at 30:50 is fire!

[@girlnettles]

Ayyyeeee 🙌🏾

[@wilcox2146]

Wasnt the older woman that Aemond was with the original woman from the street of silk? He lost his Vcard to her and she said "oh how you've grown" - fast forward to now and he is using her as a listener. Similar to how the Unsullied used the girl for comfort and got his throat cut.

[@El_.5794]

They’re lovers or Aemond is a frequent client ‘cause Aemond was with her the night Haelena’s boy was assassinated. They know each other intimately well

[@Addam_]

I was unfortunately away from my PC for a lot of the stream so apologies if any of this was covered. For Arryk and Erryk I actually believe it was Arryk that won and said "forgive me your grace" and the wounds indicate as such, unless I missed something. Erryk got slashed on the leg and was the one strangling Arryk, Arryk grabbed the leg wound then Erryk fell back, crawled to the sword then got stabbed. So, "forgive me your grace" then taking his own life would have a lot of other meanings and not just "can't live as a kinslayer to my twin". The conversation between Rhaenyra and Daemon was really good and the essence of it is that Rhaenyra wanted Daemon to admit he did it on purpose BUT unless an interview tells me otherwise I tend to believe Daemon that it was actually a *mistake.*

[@Felzorful]

Imo wether it was mistake or note i am pretty sure he wont feel guilty about it ether.

[@jessjess23brooks89]

I do believe Daemon did it on accident. Subterfuge needs a careful hand. There's nothing careful about Daemon. He also isn't the brightest bulb. Words are hard when he isn't screaming them. I do however think he doesn't at all feel bad about the outcome. He might even be bummed he didn't think of it in the first place.

[@rageintothelight]

I think eryk killed himself because he knew his twin was dead and he couldn't prove if it was really him to the queen so he was a liability so he took himself out.

[@SteezLouise]

@@rageintothelight thats a good take. It was Erryk that won.

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

I watched behind the episode, they purposely made it so that they both had wounds in the same place so that we wouldn't know who is who. They mention who was that fell on their back and destroyed that ceramics, I think it was Arryk but I'm not 100% sure. That would mean that Erryk died by suicide

[@canadianravenbrook]

Yeah Rhys / Otto had me laughing out loud 😂

[@MC-el2us]

The fact that Otto had to exposition Daeron existing 😂 Would have made much more sense if Allicent (you know, his mum) as part of his pick me up asked him to speak with Daeron.

[@WeaselSoup-su5yu]

I kind of got the impression that part of the reason for telling Otto to go to Highgarden was to keep him away from Daeron. 🤔

[@conniesuper9892]

Omg,I'm loving this season!! 😍 Love your combination, your panel is great together!Great team 🎉Thank you do much!!!!

[@safiyahnoorpage7206]

The entire episode’s theme was trust and the losing of it.

[@noahh2338]

Another banger stream! Love you three, praise nettles, grey waste tim and the lightbringer ❤

[@yogadork_namaste]

Gotta love that "rhaenyra hate sex" between alicent and crispy cream

[@nevaehaho61]

I loved that Mysaria’s ship is called The Corwyn after Corlys’s dad. That’s a nice little detail

[@alexarobertson17]

Nettles’ comparison of the greens and the Kardashians was honestly really topical and rang true to me! They do monetize and use every personal aspect of their lives for personal gain. Even money aside, they use a lot of personal stuff to garner sympathy. It really is political theater!

[@girlnettles]

🙌🏾

[@MichaelCNelson6]

for all the hate Cole got tonight, his plan came pretty damn close to ending the war lol. Like if the white worm lady or whatever her name is isn't in the exact right spot at the exact right time the plan probably works and Cole comes off as a genius.

[@DavidLightbringer]

they definitely want us to debate the ethics of war crimes and assassinations and things like that don't they

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

I think Daemon's problems started by simply wanting to be included, he was Viserys's brother and wanted to be treated like a brother would be treated. Yet he is constantly being excluded. Kicked of the small council multiple times, kicked out of the city, out of the country. When arguing about being Hand with Viserys he says "Because I'm your brother!", he doesn't say "it's my right" or "I deserve it" or anything like that, he's wanting to be treated like his family actually wants him around. When excluded he gets angry and he acts out, but at the end he always returned back to his family. He went and took his rage out on the Crabfeeder, and what did he do afterwards? Did he remain as a petty king with his own power? No, he went back home and gave Viserys the crown. And now, after the argument with Rhaenyra, what is he going to do? He's going to take out his rage at Harrenhall fighting HER war to gain power FOR HER. So why do people not trust him? Otto Hightower. It was Otto who kept advising Viserys to not give Daemon any power, it was Otto who convinced Viserys to remove Daemon from the small council, it was Otto who convinced Viserys that Daemon couldn't be trusted. And then when Daemon acted out in rage at how he was being treated it was Otto who pointed and said "see what he's like?" And it worked so well that everyone believed it. Adam of Hull isn't the only one who deserved to have "LOYAL" on his tomb.

[@leanc8906]

Episode 1 marked Father’s Day with a Son for a Son, episode 2 celebrated the month of June and Gemini season with the Cargyll twins. I wonder what the next episode will mark/ celebrate? 🤔

[@girlnettles]

July 4th is about independence and kind of a civil war. Tea England vs surfer England. Maybe 🤔 that can be the next big holiday?

[@WeaselSoup-su5yu]

Allyn held up a crab before seeing Seasmoke. Could be a reference to Cancer?

[@darksister96]

Amazing stream! 💚All the actors are slaying it 👏

[@smpk9667]

Best episode so far in my opinion. All the acting talent was on their A game. EDIT: Also Aemond's brothel scene kinda mirrors Daemon's brothel scene with Mysaria from S1.

[@tdgarts]

33:21 I kinda wanna disagree with Tim on this take. I can see how he interprets that's seen between Alicent and Helena. Since Helena is heavily implied as Autistic - and knowing from experience - when someone is overwhelmed like she was in that scene. Usually touching is a no no and makes it worse. When I'm overwhelmed and overstimulated, I cannot have people touching me because it makes me worse. So I can imagine Helena was experiencing the same effect.

[@aliejosephvalente]

We read the book, we know what happens, we’re still going to watch! We all still watched Titanic even though we knew how it was ending.

[@drewflemingmusic]

Great trio. You guys have got me laughing out loud.

[@girlnettles]

😂😂

[@MilkFearless]

I felt so bad for Helaena! No one was there for her the entire episode. I think that Alicent wouldn’t have talked to her at all if they weren’t stuck in that wagon together.

[@miaallen6161]

I don't think the small folk mob was a fake out. I think like with allot of trailers it was a mash up thats deliberately meant to make you think two unrelated scenes are from the same point in the story. I think the mob will come after a different character death, when the small folk are allot more dissatisfied with the royals because of the blockade and killing of the rat catchers.

[@DavidLightbringer]

haha that's what I meant by a fake out

[@DavidLightbringer]

the trailer faked us out

[@miaallen6161]

@@DavidLightbringer Oop!😳

[@CaylaCommonFolk]

Couldn’t hang last night and fell asleep halfway through stream. Back for the rewatch though of course

[@jamesknott5255]

Otto knew it was all over the second he made the comment about Viserys choosing Aegon to be King, and chuckling. When he says “you wouldn’t dare” afterwards, in my opinion, is simply the last vestiges of disbelief that he could ever actually lose his position as Hand. At this point he’s old, he’s tired, and he’s had enough. All of his manipulation and work is coming undone. This was him finally just losing his patience and finally just letting it all out. This was continued when Otto was speaking with Alicent afterwards, and when she was trying to confess, again this episode, he simply told her he didn’t wanna hear it. Otto grasping at the thought that Alicent and he are still the last “stronghold” who can turn things around, even though I’m sure he has his suspicions already, he didn’t want to have the truth spoken out loud.

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

" All of his manipulation and work is coming undone " Okay but what work? What manipulation? They didn't dedicate any effort to training Aegon. Otto's main focus should have been that. Did he expect that the badly behaved kid will just wake up a serious and calm person? He at least prepared Alicent to seduce Viserys, he did some work with her. Aegon and Aemond were just let lose. In the show Cole is not under his influence. Otto has no tact. He should be manipulating the sh1t out of Aegon. Not shouting at him. "A wise man doesn't make an enemy out of a king" yet here we have Otto acting like Aegon - the king and a dragonrider - will be as compliant as young Alicent

[@jamesknott5255]

@@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195 The “work” I was referring to was not specifically directed at what Otto “should” have done with Aegon. I was talking about all of his work and manipulation done while serving under both Jahaerys and Viserys after. You can’t deny that he was successful in much of what he did prior to Aegon. And yes, he DID lose his cool there at the end. I said as much and why. He’s old, he’s tired, he doesn’t believe in Aegon as King, and sees that it’s nothing but chaos surrounding him. Now, is he partly to blame for that, oh absolutely ! It was a very real argument between power players, one old and one new. It’s the same, to a point with Alicent. He doesn’t want to hear her “confession” for no other reason than that he wants to still believe that working together with her, there is still a chance to turn things around. He’s wrong, but he doesn’t know that. Again, just my opinion. Besides that, team Green can infight all that they want. And I’ll just sit back and laugh. ALL of this is their own fault and will be their own undoing.

[@epic_andra]

I don’t think the riot involving Alicent and Helaena was cut out. If you look closer, Alicent is wearing a different dress. The one in the last episode has a golden vertical lacing parting the dress in the torso section. In the riot, it’s a more simpler dress. We are yet to see those scenes. I also think Helaena was seeing this riot in her head throughout the funeral and this is why she got so anxious

[@oswinhull4203]

I forgot how fun these live streams are. I will have to remember to check out the next one. You guys are such fans of ASOIAF and know it so well and provide a lot of insight.

[@wafflingmean4477]

Can we take a moment to acknowledge that Aegon for sure left King's Landing immediately after Blood and Cheese were out of his sight despite Blood and Cheese being supposed to return the head of Aemond (or insert Green Targaryen here) to Daemon in order to receive the second half of their pay? No way Daemon's running the risk of the city getting locked down before he can return to Caraxes. He's too recognisable. If Blood got found out just by being searched, Daemon would be recognised at any gate he gets stopped at. Kind of adds to the pointlessness of it all when you realise Blood and Cheese already had all the gold they were getting out of this and could have just walked away the second Daemon left if they'd only known.

[@antjestube8774]

The Girl Nettles rocks the screen with another awesome outfit and stunning makeup! Great discussion, team!

[@orsolyaszabo6406]

The scene when Rhenys looks at Daemon, and Rheneyra realises that it was Daemon, was the scene of the week for me!!!! The acting was just sooo good! What do you think Aemond will think about the fact that Aegon named Cole for his hand????? I think he will be pissed

[@Matatabi6]

The only thing I’m worried about is that they’ve nailed the first 2 episodes so much they might have to stretch out the rest of the season too much

[@amandaofhouserobinson6707]

The dragon sounds in background when rhanyera and misaria were talking was excellent! Did anyone notice Otto calling jahearys his grandson , not his great grandson???

[@DavidLightbringer]

I think it can be a general term for any grandchildren or great grandchildren

[@DavidLightbringer]

kinda like "cousins" can actually cover a few different things

[@walkerjm911]

Alicent not comforting Aegon and Aegon not comforting Helaena reminded me of when Aemond almost reached out to Lucerys at Laena’s wake. Such good writing to have these generational through lines.

[@TuathaTuna]

The generational trauma. I wonder how much was lost from the death of Alicent’s mother at a young age thus Alicent’s mother not being there for her from her teens forward (at oldest, could’ve been even younger I’m not sure).

[@mrloadinggame]

I love how much you love George Martin world, the excitement in your voices after watching the episode, is like hearing a child talking about an amazing toy that he was giftent with

[@canadianravenbrook]

I also thought we were seeing Maelor at first but then it was Rhaenyra with her kids. Which I got. But I saw some commenters elsewhere confused thinking that was a flashback

[@ctrl.s3565]

I think the reason Alicent couldnt comfort Aegon isnt because their relationship is too fractured, it's because she blames herself for the murder

[@bossman6798]

One thing I'm surprised that David hasn't touched on is that they hung all the ratcatchers, and the city is now gonna be overran with rats in a figurative and literal sense.

[@El_.5794]

If they’ll follow the book, they’ll bring cats to the castle and perhaps the streets of Kings landing will be littered with cats too

[@Atinyshark]

Alicent not knowing how to connect to her son's may stem from not having a mother growing up and only having a manipulative father as an example of a parent.

[@Bryaninthebelfry]

That Erryk Arryk scene, phew! That was so heavy!

[@DistritoColor]

What I liked most of this second episode was that showed us the humanity of all the characters: their vulnerability, internal conflicts and wounded parts. All have issues and unfortunately the consequences end up being very bad.

[@jonhauge-evaldsson783]

I think Heleana saw Sunfire fall. And it looked like she was drowning...

[@DavidLightbringer]

oh yeah why so

[@jonhauge-evaldsson783]

@DavidLightbringer Golden "wings" falling. *Spoieler warning ⚠️ . . . . . . We know Sunfire is going down soon, m a wing...

[@jonhauge-evaldsson783]

The team Green is also team Gold because they have the golden dragon sigil. The golden leafs falling could also mean a lot of people dying under the golden dragon banner... Rhaenyra seeing black soot flakes falling could mean the same. A lot of people are going to die on the black dragon side...

[@canadianravenbrook]

Civil war - the inter familial violence - it's truly terrible indeed, but when Daemon rolls out on Caraxes.... 😫 Big energy!

[@deeptrlp]

Episode Title: Daemon...Ooops, I did it again.

[@thelateescapist8266]

I think Aemond's attraction to older women is his way of seeking the maternal affection he never got from Alicent, who was always too busy plotting against Rhaenyra, and manipulating Viserys to form an emotional bond with any of her children. Also Aemond was depicted as a child with an old soul in his earlier scenes in the first season. So he was probably bound to be more interested in mature women.

[@brigo1744]

Hello!!! Just wanna say that the bald kings guard with rhaenyra is sir Lorent! Love your stuff!

[@Stopthecapmedia]

I’ve never read the book but after what took place in Kings Landing, I found it insane the queen sent Damon away or allowed him to leave. It almost felt like she knew where he was going because she mentioned it to Damon‘s daughter a few moments later, but you don’t let your best sword go when war is brewing, especially when revenge is likely coming after blood and cheese. Ps criston was definitely smashing bf the king died…

[@WeaselSoup-su5yu]

He’s lucky she didn’t have him imprisoned. She is the queen. Running around behind her back hatching assassination attempts only undermines her support and is the whole reason she has to fear retaliation in the first place.

[@Stopthecapmedia]

@@WeaselSoup-su5yufair point but I mean he does have a dragon and he is possibly the best swordsman in Westeros(At least that’s the way it seems from the show) she needs him. Giving the circumstances what choice does she have? I understand the political optics of it but dam didn’t she lose a son as well? The greens got caught lacking imo. They just killed an envoy/their cousin, ntm usurped her throne. everyone in the greens were preoccupied with other things and got caught slipping. Damon said that wasn’t his orders. Maybe he’s lying maybe he’s not but I think it’s meant to be viewed ambiguous. 🤷🏼‍♂️ the point is she needs Damon and the greens struck 1st. They both were bad crimes but war is about survival.

[@WeaselSoup-su5yu]

Yeah, I hear you. The fact that he has a dragon is probably why she let him walk away. I think she knows he’ll still fight for her. They’re blood, after all, and he despises the greens. But maybe it’s best if he puts his efforts elsewhere, away from KL.

[@Stopthecapmedia]

@@WeaselSoup-su5yuprobably right but if not for the white worm she might have been slayed. Damon would have been in bed with her more than likely.

[@Stopthecapmedia]

@@WeaselSoup-su5yu I won’t lie though. I definitely see the problem with him conspiring or being complicit in an assassination attempt without the queens council or approval. I guess Damon is kind of like a wild card, but I still stand firm on my point the blacks need him. whatever happens next, I’m here for it tho. Also I wouldn’t say it’s the only reason she was in danger I think from the moment her dad died. She was always in danger..

[@conniesuper9892]

Aemond with the sex worker reminds me of the Unsullied soldier with sex worker in Meereen...just wanting snuggles and to be listened to

[@motorcitymangababe]

45:56 one of the biggest things with Daemon that I got from this episode is that his fundamental differences in how he displays loyalty and devotion to his family is exactly why they push him away. His response to "do you support me as your queen" was "did I not put the crown on your head?" Which is both a literal and figurative statement. Like y'all are saying - he could have pushed his own claim at any time. So to him, the idea that he would have backed her instead of pushing his own claim if he didn't think she *could* be a good ruler is ridiculous if not down right insulting. (This doesn't excuse his response to being questioned. Bro could have explained himself like the goddamn adult he is) And I know this is how he's thinking, because this is how my bf thinks. Early on in our relationship when I was still deconstructing from an extremely abusive home I was full of "but are you sure you actually love me?" And his response was the 19 year old's emotionally mature version of daemons "are you kidding me" reaction to what is basically a "but do you love me or did you settle" question dressed up in a crown and a dress. (And also- Daemon if my gamer bro *at 19* can react to that kind of question rationally, so could you. Dragon touched bitch man.) But like I had to explain to my bf- knowing the end result of your thought process doesn't help me when I fundamentally can't trust you without understanding you. My bf learned to communicate. Daemon learned to throw shit and act like a big baby instead of explaining himself. But that being said- Daemon doesnt understand that his intent vs actions make no sense outside his own head, and his inability to explain himself fucks him over every time. Dude could have come clean about this being a stupid, shitty decision made by a stupid, shitty man who just lost 2 kids and saw a wife in pain and thought if he could kill Aemond with a bag of coins everything would be ok and he fucked up. Wouldn't undo what he did but it would be honest and allow Rhaenyra to see him for who he is and judge him on that. But Daemon can't handle the self examination that would take. If he could, the heir for a day incident would have pivoted the plot in an entirely different direction.

[@DavidLightbringer]

One of the worst things is he doesn't see how badly he's undermining Rhaenyra in front of her own people.

[@motorcitymangababe]

@@DavidLightbringer this too! He's so worried about being right and pushing her that he's contributing to the concept that she (a woman) is too weak to rule. If she can't control her husband, how can she control the realm? His pattern is like a more extreme version of Jaimie's "every time I try to help I kick myself in the ass" curse. He's a weapon trying to weild itself, and in doing so, cuts the hand that holds it. If only he took direction!

[@lanam.9235]

I wonder if they’re trying to call attention to that scar on Mysaria’s neck as a parallel to the glamour ruby necklace Melisandre wore in GOT since there’s a theory that Mysaria and Melisandre are the same person.

[@jorahtheexplorer3262]

You can be Asexual but not Aromantic - you enjoy the physical presence/contact of another person but not feel the "need to breed"

[@entreptiles]

Nettles is beautiful 😍

[@girlnettles]

Thank you 🙏🏾❤🐉

[@diegobromfield]

So I have seen more than half of this stream so far. I haven't heard anybody mention this. But isn't there a scene that got cut from the funeral service? In the trailer there was a scene where Alicent/ Halaena were on the ground either running or getting dragged. I didn't see that in the show.

[@bloodyneptune]

I figured that must be coming later, maybe after the small folk start getting mad at them.

[@diegobromfield]

@@bloodyneptune Okay yeah thats probably the case. I didn't rewatch the trailers to check if they're in different clothing to this scene. The setting is similar though.

[@GrinMonister]

​@diegobromfield they're wearing different dresses in the riot scenes from the trailer (at least Alicent is--harder to tell with Helaena). So most likely, that'll be in an upcoming episode.

[@dancingdragon3]

Yeah I was waiting for that!

[@diegobromfield]

@@GrinMonister Good. For a moment, initially I thought they pulled that trick some shows do. Where scenes from a trailer never make it to the actual film 😅. As long as we're getting it I am good.

[@EmaAgafitei]

If I'd be Otto, I would switch to Rhaenyra. I know he would probably get Dracarys, but... Is every episode goona end with Criston and Alincent going at it??? Would be fun, I wager. Also, I can't wait for Rhaenyra and Mysaria plotting togheter. I do not think Mysaria left for Lys and Mysaria is the one that observed something strange about the kingsguards climbing the hill

[@jonhauge-evaldsson783]

Otto is mentioning "The Long Game." What do you guys think he means? 1. Just winning the war. It may take years. 2. Holding on to the crown and establishing a Hightower dynasty for generations to come. 3. The Maester Conspirasy to get rid of all the dragons. Is Otto really ready to sacrifice all his grandchildren for that? 4. Somthing based on ancient knowledge the Hightowers possess. Could it be something about the ancient dragonlords from the Great Empire of the Dawn? Do they have a prophesy of their own about the Long Night? 5. Somthing else? But what?

[@br7693t]

To win a war, you need the guys who will say "sinking the Lusitania was horrific, but the optics will bring America into the war."

[@SteezLouise]

Loved the Rhode Island shout out....Let me know When you guys are in town.

[@andrewf6111]

Otto is soft? The guy is the coldest political operator we've seen so far in hotd... What?

[@haydenn680]

I love that this is a non spoiler stream. my new weekly ritual

[@Rajarshi_X]

Larys could be Daemon's spy, Fire&Blood mentions Daemon had someone in the Green council

[@girlnettles]

I remember the books saying that!

[@Valkanna.Nublet]

The twin fight was epic, better than I expected, they absolutely killed it (pardon the pun)

[@andrejmarin1907]

This was a great episode, with no feelings of disappointment this time. The death of Luke should have received the same attention and had a full episode dedicated to it, just like this one.

[@Rex73777]

I link Aegon breaking the “Legos” was more akin to Viserys lack of involvement in his children’s lives. He ignored Aegon and it’s even mentioned in Episode 1 by Aegon.

[@priscillamontoya]

The Greens, in general, don't know how to love. From Otto all the way down. Otto couldn't comfort Allicenr either, plus when he made a scant effort, she rejected him just like Helena with Alicent. It's weird.

[@hinakhodiyara7883]

Ep2 nothing less than chef's kiss, as was your breakdown. Thank you.