Londoniyyah - Part 22 - Christianity / 1

[@jhalcricket2376]

Mohammad hijab is genius and critical thinker I can't believe this channel has so little viewers guys don't worry Allah will give you reward even if 10 people are listening you and u are helping them increase imaan

[@mohammadhdiebi3249]

Very informative and intellectually satisfying episode. The arguments from the Quran relating to Gods Will and the issue pertaining to a multiplicity of Gods is eye-opening when contrasted and used against the Trinity. Barak Allahu Feekum

[@AbdullahYA-]

بارك الله فيكم اخوتي في الاسلام

[@mohammadz.5560]

This is really good, maybe it should be advertised more on Hijabs channel or maybe even Ali dawah’s to inform more people with this information

[@baniadam900]

Jazakallah akhi I learn so much from you Ramadan Mubarak

[@hibatuadam2777]

Another beautiful episode

[@tftwstf5]

Wallahi I wish I was with you all to speak on this topic

[@mdmujahidulislam2437]

🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:08 📚 *Doctrine of the Trinity and Quranic Argument* - The Quranic argument against the Trinity lies in the logical impossibility of three all-powerful beings. - Contradictions arise in defining power relationships among three entities in the Trinity. - Quranic argument serves as a logical undercutter, making the Trinity concept impossible. 05:18 🕰️ *Doctrine of the Trinity & Historical Origins* - Exploring the distinction between essence and persona in the Trinity, not found in the Bible. - Augustine's concept of essence and persona aimed to resolve the contradiction in the Trinity. - The evolving belief in co-equality and co-eternality within the Trinity over time. 11:00 🤔 *Role-Playing & Debating the Trinity* - Role-playing scenarios to discuss and counter arguments about the Trinity. - Highlighting the contradiction within the Trinity: the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as one essence yet distinct entities. - Addressing theological discrepancies and logical inconsistencies within the Trinity. 19:23 🧠 *Will in Trinity: Autonomy & Contradictions* - The discussion centers around the concept of will within the Trinity and its contradictions. - Highlighting the incongruity of multiple wills coexisting while being forced to harmonize. - Exploring the autonomy of will and its implications on the theological coherence of the Trinity. 26:03 🤔 *Understanding Jesus's Will* - Examining the capability of Jesus to act against the will of the Father. - Jesus's will, the Father's will, and their potential contradictions. - The external elements influencing Jesus's choices. 28:09 🕊️ *Problems in Trinity Analogies* - Analogy discrepancies: Modalism and Tritheism. - Exploring differences in understanding God: His attributes vs. who He is. - Theological controversies in Islamic history regarding God's nature. 30:57 🌊 *Tracing Incarnation and Trinity Changes* - Shifts in Christian doctrine: God's nature pre- and post-incarnation. - Exploring changes in the understanding of who God is in mainstream Christian doctrine. - Contradictions in the nature of Jesus: Man vs. God. 34:29 📜 *Quran and Trinity: Differences and Equivalences* - Distinguishing the Quran from Christian Trinity misconceptions. - Understanding the Quran as the uncreated word of God. - The Quran as a subset of Allah's speech: Uncreated and distinct. 38:29 🥚 *Deconstructing Trinity Analogies* - Analyzing and dissecting problematic Trinity analogies: Egg, Water, Man. - Critiquing the analogies' inadequacies: Multiple parts, states, and unnecessary numbers. - Connecting analogies to theological problems in the Trinity concept.

[@homtanks7259]

JazakAllahu khairan

[@amalmohammed500m]

MashaAllah tabarakallah amazing.

[@nourthedoor]

MashaAllah Hijab, you excel at these kinds of videos. I've learned a lot from Londoniyyah, Sapient Thoughts, the MH podcast, etc. I honestly think you should stick to content like this and maybe leave the refutations and dealing with people like David Wood and AP to Farid and the others. This isn't a criticism of your work in that area--its just I believe you've got way more potential in this regard. Allah yebarek feek and Ramadan Mubarak ya akhi :)

[@abdoulkaremali4247]

did he compose the londoniyyah?

[@nourthedoor]

@@abdoulkaremali4247 Not sure, I just know he's been highly involved in it

[@Abdullah21038]

Hope this helps, the acculmative case for the evidence of Islam kzbin.info/aero/PLM-o12h2ocHgP5aQ1GtqhqUrHhL38FvrT

[@Kebbab.213]

@@abdoulkaremali4247 watch his last video

[@matthews95_]

The problem isn’t even with the logical explanations behind it, many evangelicals hold the Bible to a holy standard and that verses like “the father and I are one” and “before Abraham was I am” are held on a silver platter. John 1:1 is the epitome of such verses and logic like that doesn’t really fight it

[@kairos_fluent]

How would you refute “before Abraham was I am” ?

[@matthews95_]

@@kairos_fluent I would say that Jesus was merely saying he was prophecied as coming in the past, just as all the other prophets were, including the "unlettered" prophet spoken of in Isaiah 29 (which hasn't happened according to a Christian). That's also why Jesus, when accused by the Jews as claiming to be the son of God, he told the Jews "don't you also call yourselves sons of God"? Adam is also referred to as a son of God, many prophets are, so Jesus was just stating he is from God in the same awy other prophets are

[@kairos_fluent]

@@matthews95_ I see, here is something to consider, and this is quite a long response so bear with me. In that same chapter, just a couple verses before 58, and during that same conversation, the Jews became increasingly frustrated because they assumed Jesus was claiming he was GREATER than Abraham and the prophets because any one who kept Jesus' word will never see death. The breaking point was when Jesus stood his ground and uttered the words " I AM", the same answer when God revealed his own name in Exodus 3:14, when Moses asked God who should he say sent him. So when Jesus appropriated this name ( I AM) for himself in verse 58 the Jews finally had enough and piked up stones to throw at him. Their reaction is understandable because no Jew would ever even try to pronounce that divine name in Exodus 3:14. They took it so seriously it was written only in consonants, and so no one knows how to pronounce it correctly, thus it is called the tetragrammaton or JHWH, which nowadays some people say Jehovah or some people say Yahweh, it's not definitive.

[@abdullahandersson132]

​​@@kairos_fluent I believe the best refutation is Bart Ehrmans explanation, if Jesus actually made such statements, why are they not found in our earliest sources? If Jesus pbuh, *actually* said such things, its absurd to believe noone recorded it until 60 years later So the statement establishes the unreliablity of John

[@mystichalaly8083]

mashaAllah akhwa

[@Fatima32ss]

*ASALAM ALAIKUM Sisters and Brother's* *RAMADAN MUBARAK* Qal Rasul Allah (The believers shade on the day of resurrection will be his charity) Al-tirmedhi *الَّذِينَ يُنْفِقُونَ أَمْوَالَهُمْ بِاللَّيْلِ وَالنَّهَارِ سِرًّا وَعَلَانِيَةً فَلَهُمْ أجرهُمْ عِنْدَ رَبِّهِمْ وَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ* (صدق الله العظيم) *Those who (in charity) spend of their goods by night and by day, in secret and in public, have their reward with their Lord: on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve* (Al-baqara verse 274) I am your sister Um Mohammed from Palestine (Gaza strip ) I am a widow and My husband passed away(shaheed) in the war of 2021 previous year I have four children 3 girls and boy I live in an old rent flat that not valid for life with my old father and mother (70 years old) As my father suffer from cancer most of his time in the hospital My children suffer malnutrition and lack of food and also do not go to school because we don't have the minimum necessities of life We are a family without a breadwinner We live deprivation and tragedy every day of our lives We live with accumulated debts and also live with the fear of being evicted from the apartment for not paying the rent All I wish is to find a source of livelihood where I can provide food for my children and my sick mother and father I desperately need the help of my Muslim brothers and sisters from everywhere Even if a little Qaal Rasul Allah (whoever removes a grief from a believer from amongest the sorrows of this life, Allah will remove a grief from him amongest the sorrows of the day of Resurrection) WhatsApp number (00970599199532) اللهم أعز الإسلام والمسلمين

[@DarioHaruni]

There's Christians who don't know much about the trinity and are unitarians by default, then there's Christians who know about the trinity but they fall into the heresy of three gods (because the mind can't really separate Essence from Person) and then there's Christians who say they believe in One God and who de jure believe in the trinity, but de facto they worship God, Jesus, Mary and/or the Saints. Those who understand the trinity and who understand the fact that they can easily fall into heresy if they don't find the right analogy to explain it to themselves, in the end they surrender and say "oh, even the church fathers say it's a mystery". Then there's those who just see it more like this: the father is synonymous with the holy spirit - that's the eternal God, and Jesus is the messiah who was "one" with God only in a mystical sense, but isn't truly the one God.

[@joshuaparsons887]

No. Educated Christians say three indwelling Hypostasis who share one essence, one will and one set of operations, in this way it is more logical to call them one rather than many.

[@DarioHaruni]

@@joshuaparsons887 so there are about 300 Christians worldwide you mean?

[@joshuaparsons887]

@@DarioHaruni that's not an argument, but a mass appeal fallacy. Provide a coherent arguement against the trinity and I will disprove it.

[@DarioHaruni]

@@joshuaparsons887 A religion is what its people believe in. It doesn't matter if the doctrine says you believe in the Trinity. Truth of the matter is that the vast majority of Christians actually are unitarians.

[@joshuaparsons887]

@@DarioHarunidefinitely not from my experience as Orthodox and that's again a fallacy. What are your arguments against the trinity?

[@johnnydeclanbarnes116]

Great

[@mirdawood1644]

Watching From #IndianOccupiedKashmir

[@mohammadz.5560]

Do you like living in Kashmir?

[@mirdawood1644]

@@mohammadz.5560 yes brother i like my hometown Pulwama Kashmir(Indian Occupied)

[@Incandescence555]

It's almost as if you cannot possibly negate the logical and axiomatic oneness of the only thing that is oneness itself - to strip the divine of His oneness is to strip all meaning from Him, voiding the universe and all its contents. As such deifying a man or one's desires is a intrinsically and consequentially illimited crime, it goes against the nature of all of reality, and as we're told by Allah 'indeed the crime of associating partners with Allah is a huge oppression/zulm'..

[@Directlite664]

This is not regarding the subject but if you are having hairloss, have biotin. Its a form of vitamin B.

[@hibatuadam2777]

Alhamdullilah

[@ronakram6690]

Mash’Allah

[@DefrimIsai]

If the Trinitarian Jesus and the Father have a singular Will then how could Satan even perceive that he could tempt Jesus in the Judaean wilderness if Jesus was part of the Godhead. The actions of Satan, a figure who proceeded man and also had a personal relationship with The Father in heaven, indicate that even he knew Jesus was just a man, a messenger, and not a part of the Trinitarian God. If however he thought the Trinitarian Jesus was a part of God and was potentially corruptible then he would be acknowledging the lesser godlike nature of Jesus, an imperfect personage of God. Either way this whole encounter negates the Trinitarian Unity in one broad stroke.

[@Golden-tv9iz]

Your logic falls apart when you realise Satan became Satan when he tried to think he was greater than God. What better way to try and prove it by tempting God himself?

[@Golden-tv9iz]

@Hassan Khurshid When did I say Satan deceived Jesus? LOL He just tried out of his pride, which was Satan's original sin. He failed horrifically.

[@myinstgiscarbenuim1693]

@@Golden-tv9iz trying to tempt god? you're already making a fallacy here since god is not an entity that can be tempted, only humans can be tempted, and satan the one who knew god would never be this stupid to try And Tempt an entity with no temtptable desires

[@mcgullible5212]

​@@Golden-tv9izSatan never thought himself to be better than God. He thought himself to be better than Adam.

[@matthews95_]

How would you argue against the analogy of mind-body-soul?

[@unknownpng650]

bruh they aredependant and each one of them has a different reality

[@boygenius538_8]

I am not my mind, I’m not my body, I’m not my soul. Each of those individually doesn’t compromise my essence, only together. Moreover each of those only make one person, and each doesn’t have a independent will. My will is mine alone, my essence is unique to me, my person is singular.

[@jamworthy14]

@@boygenius538_8 are you saying . God has a body mind and soul?

[@LADavis-ih3ok]

57:15 The Christian when challenged and cornered on the issue of the trinity end with: "Mystery"! "When you believe in things you don't understand, superstition is the way" (Stevie Wonder, "Superstition")

[@joshuaparsons887]

There are no issues with the trinity. This video doesn't present anything that hasn't been debunked before. However, calling it a mystery altogether isn't a problem. God is beyond comprehension and I think Muslims would agree that God and his essence are mystery.

[@freeman7983]

Masha ALLAH

[@Idk-h3h]

41:26-x deals with the analogies made by Christians to explain the trinity

[@mansurel-feleq6267]

Who are guys the audience?

[@kittenluv17]

curious as to how to convince some lay christians to appeal to logic. they argue that we as humans cannot confine God to the constraints of human logic since we are in fact limited in mind. In my attempts to give dawah, when I bring this up I can't help but feel there is a double standard because when we try to appeal to the idea of justice and undermine the idea of the innocent blood sacrifice being cruel, an atheist by the same token can say how can we then believe in a God who burns people alive eternally since we as humans don't deem that just to do to one another. So I discovered a fallacy in this reasoning. Anyone able to help counter this rebuttal? JazakaAllahu khair ~

[@Moe.nadji5]

I had the same kinda experience someone argued that we are imperfect because of the original sin so God sent his so to forgive us or smn which is the most illogical statement I've ever heard lol but in regards to the burning for eternity you can answer that by saying that the only ppl who have this punishment are those who describe partners with God or reject him knowingly so not like other sins which ppl commit against one another they are committing a crime against an infinite being which deserves a suitable punishment, an eternal punishment which is the burning for eternity.

[@nanashi2146]

Bro you gotta stop with the shipping

[@Moe.nadji5]

@@nanashi2146 shipping????

[@kittenluv17]

@@nanashi2146 mad ?

[@nanashi2146]

@@kittenluv17 Nope, I just think shippers get so toxic so easily

[@CabdifataaxCardio]

if we say three persons but share Godness but not One being then that is Tri-thiesm which heresy if we say three person hold parts of GOD that is partailism that is heresy if we say Ontologicly single person who exxists different modes in different time than that is modalism which heresy orthodox Trinity state Three distinct persons( different Wills, emotions , conciousness) in One numerical Being ..... athenias said we can divide persons into essences nor we can say One single person But it is One beings in three different beings ! Allah says " Dont say three indeed Allah(wholly) is One single GOD(i.e One single person) "

[@ILoveLuhaidan]

Hijab you are OP mashallah

[@lemonzest1017]

What Matn is that?

[@skrm5311]

A being can't be human and God at the same time because God is uncreated and limitless, where human isn't. It's equalvalent to say God is something and nothing at the same time. No matter when christian put separation of two nature of Jesus or one nature at once, it's logically impossible to have two opposite nature. Inserted on 12 May, 2022 || Here's more fleshed out version of my original argument. As we agree God is infinite and human is finite. So only way possible for God to become human, if and only if it's possible for infinity to become finite. Now why infinity can't become finite? Let's say infinity become = x amount finite. So the amount needed to subtract to make infinity finite = ( infinity - x amount finitude ) = infinity. But if we subtract infinity from infinity we can't get x amount finitude because, ( infinity - infinity ) = 0 zero. So the reason infinity can't be finite is because to make infinity any amount of finitude, infinity has to be removed from infinity, but when infinity is removed from infinity then simple algebraic logic says that's equals to zero, i.e not any finite amount. Hence, to conclude, because infinity minus infinity can only be zero and infinity can only be finite if infinity minus infinity isn't zero, that's why infinity can't become finite. And that's why it's logically impossible for God to become humans.

[@kairos_fluent]

Well, Christians believe man is made in the image of God so it's not impossible when considering this.

[@skrm5311]

@@kairos_fluent What do you understand by "in the image of God"?

[@kairos_fluent]

@@skrm5311 Well, I'll just refer to the Catechism of the Catholic Church - 356- Of all visible creatures only man is "able to know and love his creator". He is "the only creature on earth that God has willed for its own sake", and he alone is called to share, by knowledge and love, in God's own life. It was for this end that he was created, and this is the fundamental reason for his dignity. 357- Being in the image of God the human individual possesses the dignity of a person, who is not just something, but someone. He is capable of self-knowledge, of self-possession and of freely giving himself and entering into communion with other persons. And he is called by grace to a covenant with his Creator, to offer him a response of faith and love that no other creature can give in his stead. This is quite a long response so just take your time with it and think on it.

[@skrm5311]

@@kairos_fluent According to Catechism then "In the image of God" means self knowledge, self possession and being able to be charitable and unselfishly self sacrificing to others. Although this quality might be argued nothing special about humans alone, however it's true this attributes are the images of God's attributes. So in a way humans are image of God, but *humans aren't God just because they both have a similar attributes.* Even the attributes aren't 100% identical. God's attributes are uncreated, eternal and limitless and humans attributes aren't. Humans images God in functionally not ontologically.

[@kairos_fluent]

@@skrm5311 Yes. To use an analogy to have a more proper grasp of it - Why do parents love their babies? Babies cannot return love, they cannot contribute in a material way, they need constant care and attention. Yet parents love their babies because they are their children. God loves humanity because he created us in his image and likeness.

[@BlackMagenta2972]

How I wish to see you debate Christian Prince

[@Kebbab.213]

CP? Farid Responds has a huge playlist of refutation

[@thefalcon7021]

Dude can't even speak english they are on two different levels intellectually

[@schredar]

[@Golden-tv9iz]

The first 5 minutes proved to me this entire series is based on lies spooned to people who won't do extra research.

[@hassanshabbir8254]

Can you explain what those lies were?

[@Golden-tv9iz]

@@hassanshabbir8254 To try and display the Trinity as three entities is false, and this is the basis of his entire argument

[@dmytoe5679]

@@Golden-tv9iz How about watching after the first 5 minutes where he does the same thing with your argument

[@Kebbab.213]

@@Golden-tv9iz what about you look at the rest

[@boygenius538_8]

@@Golden-tv9iz is three persons not three entities? Even if you make a distinction it’s completely arbitrary.

[@Leyla_Bat_Murrah]

Christians are rejected by thier own Jewish man-g*d in thier own Christian book 😂 *Matthew 15:24* *He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, the Israelites"* And this proves hadith that's stated that every Prophet used to be sent to his nation *exclusively* but prophet Muhammad has been sent to all mankind. Sahih Bukhari Book: 8, Hadith: 438 Narrated Jabir bin `Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "I have been given five things which were not given to any amongst the Prophets before me. These are: -1. Allah made me victorious by awe (by His frightening my enemies) for a distance of one month's journey. -2. The earth has been made for me (and for my followers) a place for praying and a thing to perform Tayammum. Therefore my followers can pray wherever the time of a prayer is due. -3. The booty has been made Halal (lawful) for me (and was not made so for anyone else). -4. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation exclusively but I have been sent to all mankind. -5. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection.) حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ سِنَانٍ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا هُشَيْمٌ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا سَيَّارٌ ـ هُوَ أَبُو الْحَكَمِ ـ قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيدُ الْفَقِيرُ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا جَابِرُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ أُعْطِيتُ خَمْسًا لَمْ يُعْطَهُنَّ أَحَدٌ مِنَ الأَنْبِيَاءِ قَبْلِي، نُصِرْتُ بِالرُّعْبِ مَسِيرَةَ شَهْرٍ، وَجُعِلَتْ لِيَ الأَرْضُ مَسْجِدًا وَطَهُورًا، وَأَيُّمَا رَجُلٍ مِنْ أُمَّتِي أَدْرَكَتْهُ الصَّلاَةُ فَلْيُصَلِّ، وَأُحِلَّتْ لِيَ الْغَنَائِمُ، وَكَانَ النَّبِيُّ يُبْعَثُ إِلَى قَوْمِهِ خَاصَّةً، وَبُعِثْتُ إِلَى النَّاسِ كَافَّةً، وَأُعْطِيتُ الشَّفَاعَةَ ‏"‏‏.‏

[@Leyla_Bat_Murrah]

Christians are idoal worshipers. They worship 3 g*ds. It's forbidden for Jews to pray in a church since it's a place of idoal worship (Based on the Talmud Avodah Zara 17a), however there's no problem for Jews to pray in a Mosque since Jews and Muslims worship the same ONE God The Almighty Our Creator 'Allāh (اللَّه אֱלֹהַ ܐܰܠܳܗ‎) The Supreme Being, the only one God who ought to be worshipped and praised because he's The infinite, eternal and Almighty creator of the universe.

[@Leyla_Bat_Murrah]

The JesusFreaks worship a Jewish man who rejects them Gentiles and calls them names😂😂😂 *And He replied, “It is not good (appropriate, fair) to take the children’s(Israelites) bread and throw it to the dogs(Gentiles).”* *Matthew 15:26*

[@Leyla_Bat_Murrah]

Christiansمسيحيين/مسيحيونwere never mentioned in the Quran, Not even once. I'm Halabi Jew (Ethnicly)I speak Arabic as my first language and read the untranslatable Arabic Holy Quran (Not the translated interpretations) نصارى = Nazarenes who are Israelites and are mentioned in the Quran. مسيحيين = Christians who are Gentiles and are never mentioned in the Quran. Christians stole from Hinduism the trinity Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva. Father, Son, Holy Ghost. As well as the hindu crucifixion of Christna Became the Christian crucifixion of Christ

[@Leyla_Bat_Murrah]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qamckpiBo8lpaZo Jesus is the ܡܫܺܝܚܳܐ ܕ݁ܰܓ݁ܳܠܳܐ משיח שקר مسيح دجال False Messiah according to the Christian Bible. *The Letter *J* was invented in the year 1524 It's *Ge-Sus* *Γῆ Gē, "land" or "earth" in Greek *Sus* is the scientific name for "Pig" or "Beast". *Revelation 13:11* The Beast out of the Earth - Then I saw a second *beast* , coming out of the *earth* . It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon

[@Leyla_Bat_Murrah]

The Christian idoal worshipers pretend to be Atheists and Ex-Muslims because thier Church encourages thier *"Peter's Denial"* (the original Taqiyya) and the Christian Book encourages them to lie and pretend to be anything *1 Corinthians 9:20-22* 20 I have *become* like a Jew to the Jews, in order that I may *gain* the Jews. To those under the law I *became* as under the law (although I myself am not under the law) in order that I may *gain* those under the law. 21 To those outside the law I *became* as outside the law (although I subject to the law of Christ) in order that I may *gain* those outside the law. 22 To the weak I *became* weak, in order that I may *gain* the weak. I have *become* all things to all people that I may *gain* some of them.

[@tranium67]

37:05