Looking at the Fighting Game Family Tree

[@CoreAGaming]

Thanks for covering this super long video! This was the length after cutting 2,000 words, lol.

[@ShadesGamin21]

Goated video as usual, literally banger after banger

[@Maavs1]

Release the director's cut 🗣

[@PAPALIKO]

You’re an impressive human being for making such a marvelous video about fighting games. I tip my hat 🎩 off to you sir Gerald 👏🏽

[@silver2zilver]

Core-a I never cared for fighting games until you. I wish you would expand into other game genres like RTS.

[@Dracobyte]

You are awesome content creator!

[@WhyYouWahYoo]

Core A is just beyond impressive. Bro made a textbook-sized explanation of fighting game mechanics disguised as an iceberg video, and I watched every second with a smile

[@martingutierrez2665]

I did too until I realized it was an advertisement for Project L

[@Inaluogh]

Bro did a brobiddy brobilly bro.

[@ZackZavage]

It's not disguised as an iceberg video. It's disguised as an advertisement for Project L.

[@Cislunar13]

Sure, I'll watch it a third time. Thank you very much.

[@jerppursh7570]

LMAO THIS ACTUALLY MY THIRD WATCH TOO😂😂😂

[@macanudo6206]

yay im not alone

[@matd2892]

First on my own, then with coney and now I'm here!

[@tingispingis]

Shill, sponsored, paid off is when: You go against my bias Based, integrity, real opinion is when: You confirm my bias

[@eebbaa5560]

deadlock is a fighting game because of the parry mechanic (real)

[@Gardosuro]

They gave Ryu a gun

[@looneymar9153]

​@@Gardosurohe's finally fair

[@gendalfgray7889]

Mortal kombat is shooter because couple of characters have gun and rocket

[@Klemkee]

I'm just happy For Honor got mentioned. It's a very non-standard fighting game but it's been getting steady support since 2017 with a playerbase larger than alot of traditional fighting games and I never hear anyone in the FGC talk about it, ever

[@eebbaa5560]

i never really got into it on a competitive level, but i always had a lot of fun 1v1'ing my friend in that game. i wonder if it's worth playing these days. i don't have a controller though

[@snowconesyrup]

​@eebbaa5560 it's still pretty enjoyable

[@kerbonaut2059]

That's because everyone I've heard who's played For Honor before playing an actual FG hates it.

[@Klemkee]

@@eebbaa5560 IMO it's in a pretty good state, much better than it was when I fell off originally, when they released Centurion. It's less turtle-y, attacks are generally faster and there's more unblockables and mixups. They're still popping out new characters to this day, and there's two new factions compared to launch. There's top-tier characters but there's not one character that runs the game except for the ones I really hate

[@TheDeadTexan]

I think I remember Max saying something very significant about it

[@BradPrichard]

Mike Ross was going nuts claiming that the dictionary doesn't have crossups. It's like he hasn't seen what a frankenstein's monster the English language is.

[@VVheeli]

The first crossup you can have is American vs. British Dictionaries. The second is when English borrows words. Make a kid spell “Colourful Colonel” and watch them crumble.

[@BradPrichard]

@@VVheeli Let's make some American kids spell Worcestershire when confronted with the correct British pronunciation. I don't mind seeing kids cry.

[@VVheeli]

⁠@@BradPrichardspelling and pronunciation are our simple left-right mixups. The diabolical mixup is “Is uwu a word” since, according to Scrabble rules and linguistic trends, it is.

[@user-et3xn2jm1u]

alright here's a dictionary crossup: fanny

[@Gleapgoogleplusisgone]

This is a war crime.​@@BradPrichard

[@truthsinger7413]

35:06 🤓☝️rivals of aether 2 releases this month on the 25th with a free demo of basically the full game from the 14th to the 21st (I’m sorry for shilling i just want the game to do well)

[@JesusRodriguez-zv4pk]

Super excited for rivals 2!

[@twobadour]

Wait when did they announce an open beta

[@tripldentgum6405]

I've always wanted to play smash but don't have a switch, super hyped to try a platform fighter that isn't brawlhalla

[@kaleidoslug7777]

RIVALS MENTIONED! (I am also a shill)

[@kaleidoslug7777]

@@twobadour Last week, it was only two days, sorry

[@gedmerrilin9010]

the game you "said what is this" to is hellish quart, a really cool sword fighting game based on actual historical sword combat. Its all made by one guy, and theres a lot of depth and plenty of interesting mechanics.

[@LadyViolet1]

Another thing to think about on the idea of first person fighting games is VR. Rumble VR for example has you fighting each other in first person with tons of well what they call "combos" but effectively it doesn't seem the same as traditional combos from most fighting games. Their combos seem to be how they combine multiple actions to make another thing happen, so a new move effectively. Ngl I don't know too much about Rumble VR since I haven't had the chance to play it, so any players of the game feel free to correct me. Honestly VR feels like the coolest way to make a fighting game first person

[@1000Tomatoes]

With the way I write in twitch chat you'd think there were cross-ups in spelling.

[@myboy_]

34:02 Sajam you can't just ask a Swede why they're in the snow

[@bugcatcherharold5315]

1) I love the fact that Gerald Fromcoreagaming acknowledged the criticism re AI in a mature way and is responsive to legitimate feedback. 2) Sister Rosetta Tharpe invented rock 'n' roll, and Chuck Berry himself described his career as "one long Rosetta Tharpe impression." She is often overlooked, so I don't blame Gerald Fromcoreagaming for missing that, but that's why it's all the more important to point out her contribution whenever the topic comes up. Edit: 3) Cirque du Soliel came to Australlia with their show Allegria when I was 7 and it was so good, I highly recommend. 4) Smash has had doubles since 1999, and triples and even quads since 2014, so 2xKO and SFxT aren't the first to have multiple people vs multiple people in a fighting game (assuming you count platform fighters as fighters, which I do.)

[@MrDrumStikz]

Tekken Tag 1 ALSO had team play, although I don't think it existed in the original arcade release, so it's technically after Smash

[@kkeithf]

Chuck Berry may or may not have said that about Rosetta, but she certainly did not invent rock and roll, or that sound, there were countless artists doing that sound long before her, Eddie Lang, Jimmie Rodgers, so on and so on. You chimed in like some kind of know-it-all but you don't actually know anything, you're just regurgitating reddit tier yasss Queen nonsense. Do your homework.

[@jellophant9716]

Smash having team play means something way different from traditional fighters having team play.

[@dr_pibby]

46:14 Man I forgot that someone threw at a crab at Hbox. That was wild.

[@old_man_fran]

Great video from CoreA as ever. But whatever you do, don't pause and go look at the hands in the "collective face-palm" image at 1:10 It's the stuff of AI generated nightmares

[@chrislee5268]

You people act like bots

[@old_man_fran]

@chrislee5268 I'm so glad you're not like us sheeple, but an original, a rebel. Fighting the good fight instead of sharing comments on things you found funny along with other sheeple like ourselves. So happy for you and so happy you're not one of us. Keep it up bud, I'm rooting for you.👍

[@TheCoolguymanly]

Maaan that looks awful, I'm glad he acknowledged the criticism and will never do this shit again, because seriously it sours an otherwise great video.

[@thelazygamer8638]

I'm glad people rightfully called him out on it and we aren't seeing AI used again but i do feel like some people over did it

[@TheCoolguymanly]

@@thelazygamer8638 You can’t really blame ‘em, this AI shit is so fucking bad and harmful in so many ways, and it really was very very silly for him to use it. But yeah, I mean he owned up too it and apologized, not much more to say or do, and staying mad at him doesn’t accomplish much. I do wish his AI free version wasn’t unlisted at the very least but I do understand why he’s done it the way he has, as sad as that is.

[@Chanse1989]

46:20 Smash players don't throw rocks... They throw crabs.

[@_Jay_Maker_]

What's hilarious to me about the SIFU thing is that ABSOLVER, SloClap's previous game, is _way_ more of a fighting game than SIFU is. There's a ton of Absolver's DNA in SIFU, but Absolver had dedicated PVP and legitimate metas surrounding it. I could absolutely see Absolver being on that list had it been released in that same timeframe, but not Sifu.

[@fluffybug229]

One of my favorite hybrid fighting games is definitely Duelists of Eden. It's basically mega man battle network style fighting game.

[@heyitsmort7744]

Oh the Eden games ROCK. Battle Network ig deserved a mention

[@JusRed48]

23:34 this is so true lmao, if you go on the Virtua Fighter subreddit, anytime they talk about what they want out of a new game it sounds exactly like this lmao

[@Boyzby]

I think one thing that makes fighting games in a good spot, besides having a lot of great games out, is the breadth of content. There's a lot of people like you and Core-A Gaming who make general fighting game content, there's people who play a lot of games like Max and Justin, there's people who make it for specific games (and even branch out sometimes), and then there's events like Sajam Slam and Crazy Raccoon Cup that bring more eyes to the genre because of the people involved.

[@monkeyduhluffy]

Man specifically Ky's GG XX theme goes so fucking hard lol It's such a perfect choice by Core-A because it truly is like, THE theme I think of when I think of anime fighters

[@jasonwhigham335]

A pac man game where you can jump over the ghosts already exists, and it's called pac mania

[@sparrow7123]

Some people being mad about 2xko, but advertising 2xko is a logically sound decision for growing the fgc more than ever, having riot exposure, the fgc capitalizing on the influx of new players itll bring could be a huge deal for fgc growth, which would just mean many more fighting games unrelated to it because thered be a larger market to aim at designing those games

[@sparrow7123]

To be clear I don't mean "saved" like sajam mentions, but exposure is the best tool for growing the community aside from having a good community, which the fgc is imo the best gaming community out there

[@bw4708]

I was thinking of rewatching the Core-A vid as I ate tonight and now I’m thankful to have a real excuse 😂

[@TonyTheTGR]

Cirque du Soleil truly is the shit, and you really ARE missing out. Imagine if Marvel 2 was dancing.

[@Mr.Faust3]

Core A gaming really made a whole section about HC huh

[@Kade503]

Sorry if this is a double post or didn't want this posted than just take it down again I guess and sorry. Just saying Rivals of Aether 2 is coming out on the 23rd (tomorrow) and if you like platform fighters (Melee, PM, Rivals, espescially, but can easily get Ult players into the game). Been playing the betas and have loved it, but unfortunately the free Next Fest on Steam demo on Steam ended, but will be available for 29.99 which includes all new future characters and future stages introduced as well as all the modes for that $30 all other purchasables are things like skins for characters.

[@eebbaa5560]

Sajam's Talk Show: the Movie

[@Vsolid]

I’ve always considered games like chivalry, mordhau, and Mount & Blade “swordplay games”. Not a fighting game genre but it sure is close in practice. If you can put puyo puyo Tetris on there, you can put Chiv on there. Not that it should be.

[@theshinken]

Still hits closer to FPS to me because while movement, distance management and timing is very important, it's mostly aiming based even when the concept of "aiming" the weapon in Mordhau is a different skill than clicking on heads in Counter-Strike. This is kinda obvious in the three Jedi Knight games which pioneered the concept and did a hybrid of both melee and FPS coming from a Doom clone. Also you simply have to acknowledge that Chivalry was a Half Life mod first which kinda shows the roots.

[@me27687]

Babe, wake up, new core a-gaming video just dropped.

[@jamesblas6427]

So where would POKKEN TOURNAMENT fall under? I still play it online along with other randos that's STILL play online but I know POKKEN would shift around it's camera perspective if you or your opponent gets enough hits in and then change from arena (field phase)to side perspective (duel phase) back and forth accordingly to whoever who would hit who kind of deal. But I still play and enjoy 2d or 3d fighters when I can

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

Can't wait for Will it Kill: 2XKO edition

[@Zadamanim]

18:19 WOSHIGE NO WHY, WHY WHAT ARE YOU STANDING UP FOR

[@Leahcimmichael]

I checked for Injustice Scorpion under my bed

[@JackTR21]

There's one thing this video was missing, the greatest arena fighter of all time: Virtual On

[@CoolRobbit]

And the grandfather of them. Only one mentioned in this video that came before it was Dark Edge, which had more in common with a traditional fighter and was also made by Sega. Then there's also Cyber Sled, which is to Karate Champion what Virtual On is to World Warrior. Not to mention the various sequels - especially Oratorio Tangram in 99, an insanely underrated game, and Magical Index Virtual On as late as 2018.

[@Nzargnalphabet]

my two cents on the first person fighting game are as such: there is a game called rumble in vr that simplifies much of the blocking and stuff, but adds its own complexity through how many various techniques come from the physics engine.

[@wufeizhang]

rest in peace rumbleverse

[@GanguroKonata]

36:20 bust a groove love in big 2024 we love to see it, it's so cool

[@benzoFE88]

Duelists of Eden... someday you'll be remembered

[@amafi_poe]

I'm mainly excited for 2xko because it can potentially bring in a lot more players to the genre, and some of those might get into virtua fighter and help me find matches

[@VaxistheWindow]

Wasn't expecting a Polyphia discussion in this video but I was pleased

[@richardjohnson8991]

Ehrgheiz, the game with the best worst menu sounds ever

[@_Jay_Maker_]

Tobal was so fucking good, though.

[@CrimsoniteSP]

CoreA took a break to cook a four course meal, it's great. Also finally getting some official recognition for Smash. It's pretty settled in now that platform fighters are fighting games, but I know people that say arena fighters are more fighting games than platforms. And like, they're just games where you fight, why can't I call it a fighter?

[@SeelkadoomandJokic00]

I wish the video mentioned The Outfoxies, which invented the Platform Fighter Genre since they were mentioning all the games that invented subgeneres.

[@Sompursone]

Eh, it makes sense it wasn’t mentioned here. There were fighters before Street Fighter II, but that one acted as the template for almost all others to come. Likewise, there were platfighters before Smash, but every major platfighter after Smash was built off its groundwork.

[@SeelkadoomandJokic00]

@@Sompursone Sure, but then my other problem is saying MvC2 created Assists when that was MSH vs SF. A whole 2 games before that. Also KoF isn't a link-based fighter.

[@SeelkadoomandJokic00]

@@Sompursone also they could have mention them since Namco created The Outfoxies, the same company that would be involved in later Smash titles.

[@hidoryy]

we're ehrgeiz of course we have highs and lows despite being an arena fighter

[@ardidsonriente2223]

Sajam, man, you should really try Hellish Quart. It is barely seen here, but honestly, is the more fighting game ish historic duel simulator I have played, ever. Its quick, precise, very technical, with a really high skill ceiling, very fun characters and lots of personality. I can imagine great tourneys with it. More fighting game players should knoweabout it and give it an opportunity.

[@lan-kun-officialchannel8285]

Props to Core-A talking about Gundam EXVS! Even though it was just a mention…

[@spydar05]

29:42 WHAT! I used to play Rival Schools with my brother way back, including Ehrgeiz: God Bless the Ring

[@-L1K-]

Thanks for reacting to this, I hope Max reacts to it too.

[@Bas1i0n]

Hearing sajam say unreal tournament was a cultural flashbang that I was NOT ready for

[@АртёмТор-к2ю]

0:53 check the comments. People are saying it unironically

[@CanalBillCast]

18:03 That's why I think "airdasher" is a better term, because what "anime" (that pretty much means "japanese cartoon") have to do with gameplay? Like, no one in Bocchi The Rock (an anime) can airdash. 😅 Edit: also, people tend to forget that western superheroes can do lots of crazy stuff as well. X-Men Children of the Atom, Marvel Super Heroes and and the Versus Series exists.

[@sebasoler5347]

i agree with your point but Bocchi probably could airdash if it meant escaping an awkward social interaction

[@CanalBillCast]

@@sebasoler5347 ok, good one. lol

[@emperormegaman3856]

Yeah, I think people use Anime because a lot of the games that used this gameplay style when it blew up had a anime aesthetic, but that can create lot of confusion. Heck if you talk to someone who isn't in the FGC the first thing they'd think of when hearing "Anime" is probably Arena fighters.

[@CanalBillCast]

@@emperormegaman3856 yup, agreed. Also even the aesthetics in the anime/manga medium can be diverse. Dragon Ball and One Piece, for example, have pretty unique art styles. Even other more safe and familiar anime art styles can show some unique traits too, like the Persona series and Type-Moon franchises like Fate Series and Tsukihime (Melty Blood), to name a few.

[@RSFArocks]

One would think so... but if Makise Kurisu from Steins;Gate can pull off sick full screen juggle combos in Phantom Breaker Omnia, then I don't see why Hitori Gotoh can't show up as guest character in Guilty Gear Strive.

[@TheLazyRegulator]

My mental canon is that I’m going to team up with a buddy and come up with some sick tag combos together to dominate 2xko. The reality is I will play it alone and only drop like 200 hours because I don’t have the time or friends.

[@Liliphant_]

16:09 you can actually air block Ferry's far M and H now 😭

[@khi-jonchua985]

#5:03 Strongest shape spotted

[@ChorizoPringoso]

To me all fighting games belong in two cathegories, one defined by gameplay/graphics (2D, 3D, Arena, Platform) and the other defined by theme (martial arts, anime, horror, sci fi, sports...)

[@ZzigZaG00NIN]

3D games not having side stepping at the start is wild

[@arty7468]

weird thing to comment about but I used to live in vegas and Cirque du Soleil is definitely one of the better, if not best show in vegas. All of them are cool, idk if I'd say life changing but they're awesome and worth it

[@werewolfareawsome1189]

No toribash?

[@alexonstott4954]

The fighting game genre is not chasing Riot Games, it's the other way around. And they aren't doing it because they don't expect to make a profit on the fighting game community as is.

[@munchatize_me]

Shoutout to Rumble VR, the real first-person fighting game.

[@lighning87]

Naruto Ninja Storm Commentator Sajam forgetting about arena fighters?

[@NickleBack9895]

fucked up what they did to that nickleback guy

[@heardofrvb]

4:06 That's why Pac-Mania exists.

[@magusomnius3201]

Lets Rock!

[@Dracobyte]

Core A gaming is one of the best Fighting game content creators!

[@heardofrvb]

Also, didn't Marvel vs. Street Fighter introduce Assists?

[@BurnoutFighter]

Thanks Sajam!

[@gendalfgray7889]

Shouldn't mario be also arena but with side view? You can freely run around here too like in naruto.

[@BreakerBea]

Of all the games to bring up for a discussion on this topic....nothing for Pokken Tournament. The game that has assist and shifts between 2d and arena fighting. Wild

[@aeturnum]

Riot tends to offer consistent salaries to professionals and supporting consistent jobs for the competitive scene instead of prizing. Also it's pretty common that they don't to open entry - you can't compete in LoL unless you are on a riot team (I believe).

[@PUNCHEDPUNCHEDPUNCHED]

Was hoping DOA's cool stage hazards would get mentioned but stage hazards just aren't that common unfortunately. T8's stage hazards are cool but it's not "fall down a flight of stairs three times and fight at the ground floor" cool.

[@1UltraUmbreon]

WOO WINDJAMMERS MENTIONED

[@skivvac]

he didn't talk about lethal league or 100% orange juice 😢

[@abfloorr]

nice content man.

[@TonyTheTGR]

PS: While 2XKO is clearly not a "Tekkenlike," I *can* see an argument to it being the most similar, in Tag mechanics, to Tekken Tag and Tag 2 (and maybe Marvel Infinite, but nobody plays THAT one). Personally, it's closer to Tatsunoko-like to me, but that's also very niche.

[@lolazarz]

Lethal league representation!!! it was there lets go!

[@WinterAyars]

Technically, TMNT Tournament Fighters had an air dash before Darkstalkers... I think.

[@SomeFreakingCactus]

Google says TMNT Tournament Fighters came out before Darkstalkers. Does it contain an air dash?

[@WinterAyars]

@@SomeFreakingCactus Wingnut had one, yeah. Also an air fireball.

[@wreaky2712]

That’s how you massacre the Cirque du Soleil name

[@alphonsowillis6942]

why bro gotta force me to look at leffen i was havin a good day

[@mariop8852]

Children of the Atom is definitely the first anime game has All the hallmarks

[@average_______3125]

Where does monster hunter fit on this tree?

[@GibonArt_]

This GGXR music love it mmmmmmmmmm childhoooood this guitar :)

[@huntsworthdoom]

The only time I ever went to a tournament that had a stream, there were like warm up matches or whatever and there was, I guess, a practice commentator too? It was DBFZ, and it was losing his MIND over the amount of hits in the combo. Because of the nature of the supers in the game it got up to like 70+, and he was trying his damndest to sell it like I just did 50 one frame links in a row and not the most basic Super Broly bnb known to man

[@RedLineOneGC]

49:33 I miss 2xko 😢

[@fgcbird]

Coney Sajam melee commentary when

[@Adderflail]

Why karate champ have the podracer controls 2:40

[@ILTDGames]

I think it's funny that most fighting games that are about anime are arena fighters rather than anime fighters.

[@Anybanks]

I enjoyed watching this with you sajam, but a few times it was hard to understand what you were saying since the video and your voice were about the same volume, and instead of hearing one or the other I would hear neither. I think the play is to make your voice a bit louder. Anyway I'm not trying to be negative about your content, I just wanted to share my perspective, hopefully it's helpful. Cheers have a good one

[@semantik95]

No but for real go see cirque du soleil though

[@caby202]

isnt the first person fighting game that vr earth bender game?

[@GrayD_Fox]

I wonder if the guy who said that felt embarrassed or doubled down in his boneheadedness of not understanding fighting games.

[@thephatblue]

Where would DNF (the mmo) fall under for competitive pvp?

[@heisenberg2066]

Anybody looking for a hype pac man that could jump over the ghosts look up Munchman 3D on pc. I played the shit out of that as a kid

[@alexandersze49]

What’s funny is that even other games like mortal kombat you can still sort of get away with calling it tekken like because of the blocking string mixups. But 2XKO? 😂

[@gingeral253]

FOR HONOR FRUIT!

[@zacharypilot8256]

Poor MvC: i, still taking strays after a decade.

[@merlinthetuna]

Can confirm, cirque du soleil is cool

[@heyitsmort7744]

No Rumble mention during the first person fighting game section is an L

[@KenBladehart]

The only (small) problem I had is he didnt split the team based and tag based games into their own branch If I have to say what style of fighting game to have more of, its Gundam Versus style. 2v2 arena fighting game is significantly more fun than Naruto Storm style game