Is Gorbad Ironclaw Still Alive? (Can Greenskins Die of Old Age?) Warhammer Fantasy Lore Speculation

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[@loremasterofsotek]

I want to be clear that the Reddit comments callout is purely intended as a joke, don't do anything stupid. I fully support those rude turds.

[@memesofwarhemmer7076]

There is the khan a hobgoblin who dies from old age how old he was, was never said so he could have been thousand of years old

[@disappointedviewerh7303]

@@memesofwarhemmer7076 Given the lasting legacy and culture he left upon the Greenskins (particularly Hobgoblins as I am pretty sure you are referencing the OG Khan), it kind of makes sense. Orcs don't seem the type to stick around with the same getup if it's only been around for a bit, so having some Hobgoblin overlord enforcing the style for so long gives the Hobgoblin culture more credibility when considering how Greenskins.

[@Garret007]

Funny, and somehow rude and polite at the same time. :D

[@ryanjones6384]

I feel like I should apologize, I, mostly for humorous value, made a comment explaining that Grimgor is a Brock Sampson murder machine that has learned nothing in 3000 years. When I got reddit yelled at for it, I said "Sotek just pointed it out in a stream!", which you had, albeit really off handedly. So, sorry to drag you into it, but, I'm also really happy with this video!

[@chubbyninja89]

Can you actually try to get back to making more lore and such videos on an at least somewhat more regular basis? I've been subscribed to you since your now old Grimgor Ironhide video dude, and sometimes I question why I still am. Because it really feels like you've forgotten your roots and only things like these silly livestreams and such rather than any kind of lore videos. I'm not saying you have to just crank out like 50 lore videos a month or anything, but just a few at least. Because it's not like you *have* to make a bunch of fancy animations or anything like that, you just talk about the lore while sometimes usual existing illustrations, which is fine. But I would love to see someone like you make a few videos about lesser known parts of the lore, like what do you think cold be done with some minor factions, such as the Kingdoms of Ind, Nippon, the Naga of Khuresh, and others, and maybe what you think they could do with them in the TW games. I just feel like not only I but other people would love to see you be a little more active than just livestreams, which so many other KZbinrs already do.

[@AshenVictor]

They never found the body, and by all the laws of television that means not only can he still be alive he definitely is.

[@loremasterofsotek]

Checkmate, stunties!

[@RunningInCircles222]

My theory in connection to this DLC is that Gorbad was pulled into the realm of Khorne following his fight in Grunberg, and spent the next several centuries (though perhaps only feeling like months to Gorbad due to time dilation within the realms of Chaos) fighting in Khorne's realm before escaping to the mortal realm. This has caused U'zhul to enter the world in pursuit, as one of his marks has escaped him.

[@AggressiveSalmon]

Really great video man. I don't actually feel strongly about Grimgor's longevity (and concede that you're probably right) but I think there are a few important questions to ask. Firstly, how is an orc whos primary vocation in life is to throw himself into melee combat still alive after doing that for 2,500 years? You can argue that Grimgor's powerscale is roughly around the same as Vardek Crom after fighting him to a stale mate, who in the grand scheme of things isn't that big of a deal (but I never really cared for that piece of lore). You'd think someone would have done him in by now. Secondly we know how much damage a rampaging orc waagh can do, what with Gorbaad permanently destroying the imperial province of Soland. Where has Grimgor been all this time and what has he destroyed? We still have chaos dwarfs, ogre kingdoms, Cathay, ind kuresh etc. You would expect to see the permanent effects of waagh Grimgor somewhere in the world, especially if he's been doing it for 2,500 years. The real world answer for this I think is sadly just a lack of writing covering anywhere but the old world as you said but I'd be interested to hear other's opinions.

[@arthenosthefirst8176]

There's a timeline in The Old World rulebook that gives an approximate date of the Black Orcs rebellion in Zharr-Naggrund, but i don't have it on hand right now. Edit: Found it. Approxmate quote: **-150-** The First Black Orcs are seen at the forefront of Dawi-Zharr armies. Fifty years alter, they would lead a rebelliong against their masters, after which most will be pushed away from the Dark Lands

[@loremasterofsotek]

Yep! Those are the same years given WAAAAAAY back in the 5th Edition Chaos Dwarfs army book as well.

[@arthenosthefirst8176]

@@loremasterofsotek maybe it's because of the limited space on page, but i found it interesting than rather than say "they were never seen again" or "they were all banned", it said "MOST were banished/pushed away from the Dark Lands".

[@alfadasfire]

I mean this is good and all but where is Queek Headtaker? Andy is at well over 6k subs by now but I don't see it anywhere?

[@loremasterofsotek]

Hey brother! It's in the cooker with my editor, though we suffered a rather upsetting setback when part of his PC just up and burned out. Progress is being made, but slower than I know everyone wants. I'm pleased with how it's turning out, but it's also extremely nitpicky and often involves sending back the same 5 minutes of footage back and forth over the course of a couple weeks each time to hash out visuals, audio, background noise/music, etc. I'm really hoping to have it out by the end of the summer, but ultimately I only care about making it what everyone is expecting instead of worrying about speed. I realize that may well not be a satisfying answer, but that's the current situation.

[@alfadasfire]

@@loremasterofsotek Not a hugely satisfying answer, no. But a good answer nontheless. And, more importantly, a good reason. It really sucks that his pc died. But it's good to hear that progress is being made! I hate Queek, the little bastard, and I hope this will make me, if not like, at least appreciate him more. Thanks for the answer :)

[@derekfrost7751]

I didnt know your pc exploted, that explains why i was wondering that i didnt saw news videos for a while ​@@loremasterofsotek

[@McHobotheBobo]

Grimgor, da one true git, and his Immortulz which have wandered with him since they won freedom

[@loremasterofsotek]

Does make for a compelling story, doesn't it?

[@dtappsnz2735]

I'm more curious about if he's still got the same boar Gnarla. That's an 800 year old boar. Literally a Boar Demi-God. Edit: Also I would say there are reasonably excuses for the dead characters in TW:W so far... - Vlad with his ring - Repanse being a Saint - Grom getting regeneration and a longer life from Troll meat (stretch I know). Gorbad's kinda a weird one. He's like that Palpatine meme. But it doesn't really matter now, CA's made there choice. Interesting discussion though.

[@nakenmil]

The easy explanation for the boar is that he just names every board he rides Gnarla, down the centuries.

[@monthlyscoopltd]

Yeah, also see Gnarla following the same naming convention as the Witcher's Roach. Otherwise, that's some seriously aged ham...

[@sirnonsense5033]

Orcs all about believe when he believes his boats keep reincarnating then he might or he just believes it naming every boat that way xd they can leave it uncertain that way. Other ways would be him and his boar getting frozen or sent forward in time by the warp. That would also fix him.

[@Rhinopotamus]

@@sirnonsense5033Orc belief magic works on a group level, not an individual, all Savage Orcs believe their warpaint protects them; so it’s true. All Orcs and Goblins believe in the WAAAGH! So it manifests through WAAAGH! magics, but to keep his boar returning all Orcs would have to believe that was possible. We know it isn’t because Skarsnik would just believe Gobbla could reincarnate during the End Times when he’s killed.

[@sirnonsense5033]

@@Rhinopotamus what i mean is tat game workshop might give his tribe the believe that their might be reincarnation for animals ect in general. Also its dosnt ave to be real magic he can just think thats how it works and act on it with it not being true at all. And these are just option they can go with I personaly think they will make him timetravel with the warp. Making that the reason why he dissapeared but nobody ever witnessing him dying.

[@JK-pp9uz]

I come into this video for some Gorbad lore and I leave with my Grimgor love invigorated

[@AxiosXiphos]

Thanks for the breakdown; cheers!

[@vrinnmetagen]

I wish the squatter King was playable and had a special model

[@eugeniosalese3861]

Hi Sotek, i love youre videos and you got me into warhammer! Still i cant get into 40k because i lack a Prophet like yourself to teach me the lore. How old was Grom when he reached Ulthuan? I still can grasp how long dod his wagh lasted

[@cable2590]

All this talk of greenskins, ogres and khorne. As a rat enjoyer, I merely bide my time until Skreech Verminking is mine. (and he best be a damn LL)

[@loremasterofsotek]

WE SHALL-SHALL INHERIT! YES-YES!

[@yosi_gurshumov]

I would really liked if CA consider adding to the game a mechanic in which when a ll confederation is happening u get some sort of a permenant buff compatibale with the ll u just confederated. It could make confederation so much cooler! Ur thoughts sotek?

[@charlesman8722]

Bro was just on a long vacation.

[@OmegaIdiot]

Lack of slaves for ToW chaos dwarfs is due to word slave being now a no no word.... thats all

[@thegreatbookofgrudges6953]

30:33 Infernal Seneschals, who are those?

[@loremasterofsotek]

The Infernal Castellan got upgraded into being a Lord choice instead of a Hero, so the Infernal Seneschal was created to be the new Hero version.

[@olroyohboy1119]

Grimgor is the Donald Trump of the Old World

[@Cryoteer]

Calling it, he was nabbed by dark elves and now he is leading a rebellion in Naggaroth together with Sporctacus.

[@alfadasfire]

Yes please, then they can make Naggarond a bit bigger at the same time! And give Grombrindal someone other than dark elves to fight, and still be green/yellow territory (not that red garbage where Valkia starts.

[@McHobotheBobo]

I'd love to see him in Naggaroth or Lustria! Finally, an orc in the far west!

[@loremasterofsotek]

"NO, I IZ DA SPORTACUS GIT!" -Gorbad Ironclaw c. 2505

[@letsplaysvonaja1714]

@@alfadasfire Grombrindal also gets to fight Norscans and Warriors of Chaos and vamp coast, woodelves and tomb kings not to mention skaven, beastmen and ogres

[@daniellipko710]

They should make Sporctacus an FLC Lord and put him in the Darklands

[@sirunklydunk8861]

My mentality: if him being dead wasn’t big enough of an issue to keep him out of the 8th edition army book, why would it keep him from Total War?

[@loremasterofsotek]

amen

[@darthplagueis13]

I feel like the obvious narrative direction for a Gorbad campaign to take would be that wound he suffered. Like, maybe he spent nearly a millennia trying to find a way to undo the magic that is preventing the wound from healing and by the time his story picks up again, he now knows of a way to cure himself, but he needs a magic McGuffin or a specific ritual to do so, and getting that sorted could be the goal of his campaign.

[@loremasterofsotek]

I think that'd make for a fun and compelling story to his little intro campaign cinematic!

[@singularleaf3895]

Especially since he will be in the same group as Khorne the Blood God, which he is totally stealing from.

[@viewerchicken730]

Gorbad and Grom came out of the same pit. I for one am really glad about ir.

[@nagashtheundyingking4404]

the image of grom and gorbad just chilling in a cave all hurt and vibing until they are healed enough then leave.

[@alertedcoyote7892]

Grom heading out like "Oil warm em up for ya!"

[@loremasterofsotek]

Ah yes, the ever famous Greenskin Lazarus Pits!

[@HUHhuh85]

I am just happy we get him because he looks cool in that red armour

[@loremasterofsotek]

Doesn't he! I really love his design, it's MUCH more of a Classic early editions Greenskin in regards to the color palette and checker pattern on his axe.

[@Mal-ue7nm]

i always assumed orcs could live pretty much forever just that they always die in combat sooner rather then later. Great video I enjoyed it, keep it up

[@taddad2641]

honestly was kinda surprised there wasn't, like, 'giant orcs'. orcs so old and strong that are just overwhelming hulks. but they can't lead cause their size laed to their minds become even duller. their bodies move with the experience of a well parcticed veteran orc, but they lost what little means of leading an orc can have.

[@loremasterofsotek]

Well I'm quite confidant they can die from more boring things such as starvation, disease, etc. but the vast majority will die in combat.

[@daniellipko710]

​@@taddad2641 is that even possible? if they're da best in their tribe, they're in charge, they lead. If they ain't leading, they must not be da best. So the enormous size would only be applicable to lords, who are already visibly bigger than other Greenskins.

[@wombataldebaran9686]

They are like green, angry lobsters.

[@giuseppe9653]

Isn't that how orks in 40K work? Biologically inmortal

[@theangrylizard2711]

Bro the idea that Grimgor is ANCIENT is so cool. Like he's this older than old Orc who just simply refuses to die. Makes him stand out in a way. Loved the video my guy!

[@bryceandriano4032]

Na I call it scary. You cant wait him out, you cant just wait for time to stop his rampage. So if you cant kill him because well its Grimgor and time cant kill him, how the hell do you stop him?

[@liambridgeman4529]

My opinion is that Gorbad after his defeat left out eastward to fight new enimes to upgrade his prowess in battle against new factions like cathay or Nippon as his army fell apart due to his men getting tired of fighting the west and the reason legends say he might or might not be alive is that the lands of cathay , khuresk and ect are more mysterious to the western kingdoms and know less about the tribe around there lands , I think he could be in Ind

[@loremasterofsotek]

Could very well be! Apparently CA will be expanding the IE map with 6.0 so he may be taking us into entirely brand new lands!

[@Hauke-ph5ui]

@@loremasterofsotek I'd like to see him placed somewhere near Ind - in that case he'd be a cool Greenskin enemy for the Monkey King and Kingdoms of Ind when they are eventually added (which I hope will happen - I really want them! *fingers crossed*). And with the Ghorst, Greasus and Kugath also being in the region and Imrik close by it would also be a nice variety of races to pick from. Edit: This could also serve as an explanation why nobody has heared about him for such a long time since Ind is pretty much a blind spot in the lore for now.

[@Wanderer-nw2so]

@@loremasterofsotek particularly sense I think it would give gelt something to fight for because he's kind of in the corner with Nakai in which he can't really expand to the north depending on your actions with the iron dragon being right next to you so I think they could give him ind or perhaps even caress to expand into that would help out his campaign especially at the start.

[@nailigniststarzear6689]

well...I personally don't think too much about this matter ,as Sotek said many LL are basically Historical Figure

[@loremasterofsotek]

It's certainly not worth stressing over, but can make for some great speculation!

[@SailTheShip]

I personally think he'd be a cool LL for the greenskins. A commander type orc revolving around buffing all kinds of units would be a nice addition to the roster.

[@loremasterofsotek]

Absolutely. Gorbad has a very balanced approach to the Greenskins and quite literally has different stories that feature him utilizing different aspects of Greenskin armies to incredible effect. From squigs and wolf riders to wyverns and war machines. He truly understood how to make excellent effectiveness out of the FULL range of Orcs and Goblins instead of just a small selection of sub-species

[@Vernon013]

I like salty Sotek :) Giv'em hell! Also great video, appreciate you citing your sources

[@loremasterofsotek]

I won't do it MOST of the time as it heaps a bunch of extra work on my poor editor, but felt it was necessary for this one!

[@zackhartley4718]

I would like to see Gorbad Ironclaw moved basically where Warrzag is now and send the Prophet to the jungles of Lustria.

[@Random_Guardsman]

Open Wound; Gorbad can sprout blood through his never healing wound to blind enemies, decreasing it's attack and melee defence.

[@tominieminen66]

Maybe he will have the “wounded” trait when he’s full hp then 😂

[@rellek4053]

I just say magic/warp nonsense. He got frozen/sent forward in time with Repanse strapped to his back. Tzeentch works in mysterious ways.

[@loremasterofsotek]

Haha, that's certainly one way to handwave everything

[@rjstram]

Ok now quick we need a buddy cop action comedy about Gorbad and Repanse as time cops! Make it so!

[@stryke-jn3kv]

@@rjstram I'd watch that show. She's a fanatical religious zealot rule follower who does it by the book! He krumps people! Together they fight crime, and have zero romantic tension whatsoever

[@rjstram]

@stryke-jn3kv Buuuuut, and here me out here, what if their hands touched? Who blushes first? 🫢😚🫠

[@KFCID65]

Well azhag was my favorite orc but now gorbad sounds way cooler

[@SailTheShip]

Ah, an Asshat the Slaughterer fan. He's by far my least favorite but I can respect it.

[@loremasterofsotek]

They're both really interesting characters in their own right! Azhag makes for a unique situation of Nagash manipulating the Greenskins in an attempt to fully utilize the might of the Greenskins through the lens of a genius-intellect human-like entity. Meanwhile, Gorbad is a full on Greenskins'-Greenskin who genuinely understands how to bring out the absolute best in his horde while still retaining being a big ole Orc Warlord.

[@kartoffelsalat0]

By Far the best old warboss model from the fantasy range. THE epitome of a boar riding badass.

[@themanwithnoface100]

Now we just need a video on how greenskins are born, and we will have the full life cycle in a nature documentary stylization.

[@loremasterofsotek]

Definitely can do that! Though we did hit PRETTY hard on the subject back during the Greenskins Q&A! Mushrooms, maaaaaaaaaaan

[@nagashtheundyingking4404]

I mean warhammer total war is a sandbox game I wouldn't really say whatever excuse they make for him being alive really matter for the bigger cannon but the discussion is still interesting. in my headcannon Greenskins are just ageless or close to it after all they are plants and wouldn't work the same way we do.

[@SailTheShip]

"They are plants" is a terrible argument because plants age and die too. I do agree with you that it doesn't matter though.

[@taddad2641]

they are funguses, not plants.

[@rtristan8572]

Gorbad is cool. Grimgor is cool. The new DLC is probably cool. Who cares about made up rules.

[@McHobotheBobo]

I'm very glad they picked Gorbad, as I love his military style a lot more than Gorfang's!

[@Thunderstriker88]

What's the difference? Genuinely curious

[@Rhinopotamus]

@@Thunderstriker88nothing really, except that Gorfang is a squatter, which is unusual, he has fights come to him due to his rule over Karak Drahz (Black Crag) and so never really ventures much further out beyond that.

[@McHobotheBobo]

@@Thunderstriker88 Gorfang is a sneaky backstabber of an orc, Gorbad is a master of combined arms and favors heavy armor like his tribe

[@loremasterofsotek]

Yeah there's quite a few notable differences on those two! They're both EXCEPTIONALLY intelligent for Orcs, but Gorfang is a far more sedentary figure that actually LOVES gold, which is quite unusual for an Orc. He's more of an actual King that desires to rule and control instead of just leading a WAAAGH! to burn down everything before him. Gorbad, on the other claw, is the ULTIMATE expression of combining all the most deadly aspects of the various Greenskin types to create a nigh-unstoppable horde that tore apart the entire Southern Empire and much of the Dwarfen realms.

[@giuseppe9653]

​@@loremasterofsotekso gorbad is essentially the fantasy equivalent of a 40K Krork

[@anthag95]

Gorbad was my favorite orc since back in fantasy times when I honestly didn't really care whatsoever for orcs (was a goblin only player). The total war series have since made me love the big green brutes, especially so with Azhag. I was over the moon with the Gorbad announcement though I worry and hope they do something similar to how they did some touch ups on the Empire with Azhag. While Gorbad used all greenskins to great effect in lore, his biggest and most unique effect on the tabletop was being able to bring any number of big 'uns to the army. Which is kinda what Azhag currently focus on as well in the campaign. Fear maybe he'll effectively just turn into flying Gorbad with less campaign mechanics lest they do something about it Maybe I'm getting a bit too greedy here though. Greenskins is already in a great place and I'm just pumped we're getting another update

[@ardeleanalex6906]

This DLC is a rare opportunity for CA to do the Mercenary machanic of the Ogres justice. I think acess to Maneaters should be made sooner with a tier 2 building variant Ogre Kingdoms - From Tier 2/3/4/5 Building Contract missions in the form of a battles similar maybe to the old Reinforce the Empire mechanic seige battle. Reward would be, besides gold, reputation, allegiance points, the option to add the recruit of a specific Maneater unit to a pool. This unit would be race specific depending on the faction of the completed mission. Additionally, recruitment costs and upkeep of that specific kind of unit could be reduced by 0-50%. Camps - besides ogre bulls, if allied with the Ogre faction, you would have access to the Maneaters race specific unit as a mercenary from one of their camps. Represented Races - Maneaters of the recruiting faction's race can be recruited from a camp belonging to an allied Ogre Faction. In addition, after reaching lvl 9 expirience lvl for an Ogre Bull Mercenary unit, the faction will receive a recuitable Maneater unit specific to their race in the global recruitment pool. Upon recruitment of that unit, if the Ogre Bull has not been disbanded already, this action disbands the Ogre Bull unit from the Lord's army. Maneaters would all have 16 models instead of the 24 of Bulls on ultra. I will give some ideas that coul be used for units and a description of the look: Tier from tier 2 building The Savage Bunch- Ogre Bulls 2H (Firebelly skin whitout the mask) Description: "Ogre Maneaters fighting alongside Savage Greenskins don't know if charging smeared in Warpaint and shouting "Wagh!" helps their chances of winning, but then again, it seems to work for the Orcs." Tier 2 Not AP but Frenzy , Warpaint 20% Ward save 16 models on ultra (Immunity to Badlands Attrition) Tier 3 (Butcher Model) Vampire Maneater "After being in the service of the undead, the Maneaters have found out that if they don't devour the enemy during the fight, the slain might rise up and service their employers, leaving them with no extra snacks for their unnatural hunger." Hunger (Immunity to Vampire Attrition) Kislev Maneater 3 "After countless battles alongside Kislev's armies the Maneaters have learned that the courage to stand and fight instead of running will allow one to win against overwhelming odds." By our blood Tier 4 Norscan Maneater (Hunter Model) Description: "Norscan contracts usually involve battling some sort of monster. Because of that, Maneaters have found that, besides matching the ferocity of the North men in combat, it does not hurt to have a javelin or two ready." Enrage Special Ranged Weapon (Immunity to Frozen Attrition) Tier 4 Empire Maneater (Irongut model) Description: "Since giving an ogre even the smallest amount of Sword training produces devastating results, any troops fighting alongside them will be confident in the thick of battle." 16 Models Encourage 40 Armor Tier 5 Dwarf Maneater Blasting Charge, Armored 110 Armor "There is a disagreement amongst Maneaters about what is the best part of fighting for dwarfs. Some say it is the dwarf ale, dwarf pay or dwarf equipment. Regardless all can agree that working for the dawi has multiple advantages." Just a few ideas. If not units, then at least ROR or a specific mechanic for Golg.

[@100kejimaeda]

My headcanon that gorbad is avatar of mork

[@nagashtheundyingking4404]

honestly he seems to be a good combo considering how smart yet massive the warboss is.

[@loremasterofsotek]

He certainly runs being the MOST balanced between the two. If one believes that the Chosen of Gork and Mork are both Orcs, then I think you're on to something!

[@100kejimaeda]

@@loremasterofsotek he’s like the Sauron of orc, because he’s cunningly brutal and disappeared and went into hiding after his lost. Just like Sauron after his master morgoth defeated aka gork.

[@zodrickzheioh7318]

So, I know this is a wild take, but I think the story should be that he was captured by Dark Elves while they were raiding for slaves, but knowing who he was, they were able to take him because of his wound he would have been taken fairly easily if he was captured while recovering. Then in some sort of story, he recovers and breaks out, and and starts a revolution in Naggarond. I know that there is "Sporticus" or whatever, but I think this could be a really cool way to get him into the game, and get a little more diversity there, I also hope that the map expansions are in Naggarond, Naggarond just feels so wonky cut in half like it is. you could have him start in the mountains, and it would give another foe for Taurox, Khatep, and obviously the dark elves. We already have some Slave Orc factions there, so I personally see that as being where he really fits. I know people want him in Cathey, but I Feel like Naggarond has been kinda left behind (also, I kinda want them to move Mother Ostankya, I really want her to be further north if she's going to be in Naggarond, closer to Sigvald, where she is right now she just kinda goes crazy and runs everyone over, I feel like it's also close to where I see Gorbad being placed. )

[@hughmilner7013]

I like the ambiguity of Grimgor's origin even if it's confirmed he's from Zharr Naggrund. Maybe he led the revolt, but maybe it's just the opposite - perhaps the line about him being a "runt" is more than just a term of age, and he was the smallest of the Black Orcs, who bowed and scraped and whom the Dawi Zharr thought would never be a threat, one they allowed to escape. Maybe he took the axe from his enemies, or maybe the Dawi Zharr armed him themselves, foolishly thinking they could use him.

[@Outside85]

On the notion of whenever Grom and Gorbad are still alive or not... I am leaning towards not, because it is not in any Warboss' personality to simply fade away. Like when in the lead up to Storm of Chaos, Grimgor finally lost a battle to Crom the Conqueror, he nearly drove himself up the walls because he couldn't have it, so he set about gathering his forces again to get even... Gorbad and Grom would have been of the same mind... they are not like Thanos who will just one day sit down an retire on a farm after a job well done. Gorbad I imagine did escape the dwarves, but his end came sometime later when some upstart worked up the nerve to challenge him, which is what usually happens between Orcs if the boss shows weakness. Grom I doubt ever made it off Ulthuan as the elves would have all the time in the world to kill every single greenskin they could, Grom however likely ended up starving to death in a cave somewhere after eating the few followers he had left. Grimgor is a bit of an odd one, because Black Orcs are not natural creatures, so we don't actually know if the fungal-growth birth actually applies to them. I doubt the Chaos Dwarves would have kept it, because it would mean they couldn't control the amount of Black Orcs they actually had. But at the same time, all of this is taking place a ridiculous long time ago and its kind of hard to believe the Black Orcs would not simply have gone extinct if they are not reproducing regardless of how many there were originally. But on the other hand, Grimgors own tale has him stagger our of an area that sounds like its fairly close to the Realm of Chaos, I know it does not quite fit the location in Immortal Empires, so it is possible Grimgor and his bodyguard got caught in one of the Realms expansions and simply warped through time to the present day rather than him remaining anonymous for 2500 years.

[@shanechudzik8554]

For the longest time in my early years of playing Warhammer, I had a theory/headcannon that Grimgor was, in fact, the returned Gorbad. Also, if the likes of Gorbad can be in the game, I demand that we see the soon return of Gorthor The BeastLord!

[@Pugsanity]

My theory is just that when Gorbad was surrounded by the Dwarfen Throng, he was "rescued" by Khorne, who was able to get a very minute portal to bring him into his realm thanks to all the blood, rage, and copious skulls in the vicinity. Thus, Gorbad was able to fight in the realm of the Blood God, and because he was so badass, Khorne let him go back to the Old World, to see what other destruction he could bring, and if one of his chosen could beat the greatest Orc Warboss of all time!

[@aromirasher]

I like this style of video, thank you for taking the time to go through each source individually.

[@yayomh]

I think that in a older Orcs and Goblins book, there is a text that says as Orcs get older, their skin becomes tougher, harder, and stronger until they can't move anymore and die.

[@lennyztrobos8678]

The miniatures could be fielded against each other in the table top game, despite living hundreds of years apart in canon.

[@eomat]

Simple. Gorbad Ironclaw is in the 8th Edition army book. He’s gets added to game. I love it.

[@jigglyjeffjumpsjoyously4297]

I mean hey all the Vamps are dead so fuck it. BRING THE BIG BOY IN!

[@Garret007]

I still hope for Gorfang Rotgut at some point in the future, ever since I heard you talk about him. I think he also sounds quite interesting! :D

[@Caldwing]

The real question I have is what the heck was Grimgor doing that whole time? Am I understanding right that he only seems to have shown up and become relevant recently in the timeline?

[@bigfinn1652]

The easy answer is that he was in the east as we basically know next to nothing what happened there as GW has only recently started fleshing out Cathay lore.

[@loremasterofsotek]

Unfortunately GW just didn't give a DAMN about anything East of the Worlds Edge Mountains for 6th edition all the way through to 8th edition. So Grimgor essentially comes from just off the map as far as they're concerned. And yes, he only appeared very suddenly in Warhammer Fantasy about 10-30 years before the End Times. HOPEFULLY if/when Games Workshop really starts expanding their attention East in the Old World, maybe we'll get to see a younger Grimgor or at least a cameo type appearance of him having rampaged through.

[@rjstram]

I really hope we get to see evidence of his journey around the world. "And here we see a massive pile of fossilized black orc shit from 2000 years ago when some crazy one eyed black orc headbutted the Dragon Emperor in the face after beating his sons in a drinking contest."

[@archmageeldran2567]

Fun video and something interesting to think about for sure. So my personal take on the matter is that Gorbad died that day against the dwarfs but the way it happened caused the dwarfs to not want to speak about it to outsiders. Either someone important and loved died that day or Gorbad's death was in some way unsatisfactory especially in regards to the grudges against them. I also think that if he had lived to ET he would have been a candidate for avatar of Gork and Mork as well as an Incarnate. Him and Grimgor would have come to blows and one would have died with the other creating the super WAAAGH!!! Granted for TW I think it matters not if a character is introducted as long as it doesn't raise massive issues for other characters so no previous Everchosen's or Emperor's or the like thank you. Gorbad appearing also gives me hope for Gorthor though that would likely require Khazrak to receive a significant rework for both to fit in.

[@123fakestreettt]

His name is Gorebad, meaning his own "gore" is "bad" meaning he doesn't want to get hurt in battle meaning he takes extra care not to get hurt, he also probably signed up for some expensive health insurance. That's why he lived so long.

[@andersstengard6293]

From what I can tell of this examination of Grimgor, he's basically the Greenskin equivalent of MEGATRON of all individuals. Something I did not anticipate at all.

[@sigmarschosen]

If we're drawing on end times lore, a major part of skarsnik's arc is that he feels himself getting cold, old, and tired as he gets older. He seems to be feeling the ill affects of age. Though that could just be his crazy intelligence inflicting him with the curse of mortality, basically using that greenskin waaaagh energy to accidentally make him age by being aware that other species age

[@lexion21]

I've got nothing to back me up, but I like to think a "true" defeat has more impact, the bigger and more successful they are, and at some point a defeat just breaks them, and they if they didn't die they just wander off broken minded and perish rapidly, either becoming myth and legend or forgotten

[@akumaking1]

Easiest/funniest solution: Gorbad stumbled into the Realm of Khorne and was stuck there for a while.

[@parkerdixon-word6295]

I'm just taking the angle that TWW isn't Canon, and having stats in 8th edition WFB matters more than being alive in the timeline. Vlad and Isabella are supposed to be dead, Grom is supposed to be dead, Azhag is supposed to be dead, repanse should've been dead for forever, none of it matters, because this is supposed to be a fun game where they all get to fight. When Star Wars: Empire at War gave the rebel faction both Obi-Wan and Luke as Jedi heroes in its roster, it's not worth complaining, despite the fact that that just doesn't work with the timeline. It doesn't need to, and it doesn't matter.

[@mattsmith173]

Who cares? Does he go "Waaaaagh" and does he crump?

[@OhManTFE]

These are the kind of vids I subbed for! LOVE IT!

[@queengorgo1440]

My prediction for Gorbad’s starting location would be his stronghold of Iron Rock

[@Scottfree165]

great video, love speculation videos

[@BobSmith-gl3sn]

If he still alive and fighting he would be titanic.

[@metrana0724]

My head Cannon prior to this video was pretty much exactly what you laid out and I think it's one of the reasons why grimgor ends up being My favorite notable green skin, long life species has always been one of my favorite tropes in fantasy as it tackles my own gripes about human mortality in the real world, the concept of a more than 2000-year-old orc that has seen the progression of the entire world's history and become such a force of nature that he would be thrown against the actual ender of the world and put up a fight is crazy cool.

[@gplr1882]

God damn i'm happy they picked gorbad despite he being most likely dead in lore. Such a cool character that uses jack of all trades tactics instead of just heavily leaning into one set of units

[@loremasterofsotek]

Me too! Gorbad is THE BIG BAD of the Greenskins from a historical perspective but he also has a unique approach to how he represents the faction. Plus he's our big bad pig lord!

[@gplr1882]

@@loremasterofsotek Pigs for the pig god!

[@ARandomNerd88]

Great video, man! I always had faith in the fact Gorbad didnt die. The lore heavily implied he survived, not to mention that the wound he suffered could be magically healed by his Orc Shamans, magic counters magic if the incantations strong enough! General rule of thumb in these matters. Also, Dwarf culture is very pride-centric. If they had killed him, they would've sung sagas of it abd bragged all the way from the World's Edge mountains to the Grey Mountains and back. But they didnt. They refuse to soeak of him, which clearly means he got away and humiliated them in the process. I am very eager to see where he ended up and what he's been up to since! It'll be fantastic to play as him.

[@WalterSobchack51]

very nice video. Thanks

[@Living_with_Narcissists]

28:50 I'm sorry, but what you're saying isn't supported by the quote here. Not that I have a different theory, but from a grammar perspective; 'them' refers to the subject or object of the previous sentence, which was the Black Orcs and goblins rebelling, which isn't necessarily "all black orcs". That's who were removed forever. It then goes on to say that "Many" Black Orcs escaped, and that the Chorfs "destroyed many" Black Orcs. It seems intentionally very vague to me.

[@Canuovea]

But Sotek! Only Elves can live a long time! Orcs live fast and die young! That's the rules! Except... not even the rules for Tolkien's Uruks (debatably). So... yeah.

[@funnylittlewormyguy4926]

Thank you for a thoughtful analysis of da greenies! I have always loved the prospect of Greenskins being biologically immortal, because that more or less answers any potential vagaries surrounding them. "Why is it their instinct to fight everything all the time, even each other?" Well wouldn't you, if you never felt pain and yet nonetheless your earliest memory was 12 dudes kicking the shit out of you? Dat's just "normal" mate. It's just the ultimate power for the Universal Foe.

[@Shimatzu95]

Random thought, are blackorks what happens when greenskins get "corrupted" by chaos? If all of them were created with nagic (originally) that feels like wat is implied.

[@fadedjem]

I love the lore, and love hearing your thoughts and ramblings on all of this - but ultimately for me the only approach for this series is a total chronological disregard. Take what you want from the history of the setting, take what you want from Storm of Chaos and the End Times and every other imaginable source, if GW ever chills out and realises that nobody will ever make or want an AoS total war game then take what you want from AoS. Use the full breadth of the setting as a grab bag, treat the game as an all-stars team or greatest hits album, don't specify a date or chronology, but throw in whatever lore contrivances you can think up to explain the more egregious stuff (as they did very well with Repanse) - treat this as a war between all the gods with all the major deities raising their greatest historical champions for the fight. Ultimately have fun with it, that's what Warhammer as a setting was made for - a fun setting where you can throw in every fantasy trope or mythological tradition imaginable and pit them all against each other with total flexibility to any vs any the factions - no matchup is off-limits and that should go for characters as well as factions. This isn't LotR where Rivendell and Lothlorien shouldn't really be fighting or where Isildur shouldn't be on the same battlefield as Theoden (though I think people take the two-sides-stuff a bit too seriously as a barrier to LotR grand strategy games, conflicts between the free peoples are absolutely part of Tolkien's vision as is infighting on the evil side). This is all to say, I continue to love what CA are doing with this series since the SoC apology and expansion, and I'm so glad that the last hurrah of doomscrolling hate-fandom from the supposed leaks turned out to be a load of hot nonsense. We're on the right track.

[@Burgerzaza]

I suspect he'll start the game with sone debuffs to his stats and public order as he's still suffering from the wound and struggling to keep da boiz in line. Then using some macguffin that Golgfag likely also wants, he can heal himself Maybe your goblin shamans can brew healing potions that bring him back up to snuff for several turns the way malus used to work, but hes even more useless after it wears off for several turns as hes pushed his body to the limit, atleast until hes healed his wound Edit: maybe an artifact called like the 'chalice of blood' or something, a powerful khornate artifact where if you fill it with the blood of worthy foes it slakes all thirst and hunger, and heals all injury, with its purpose being to let khornate champions subsist only on battle Skulltaker would want favor with his master by reclaiming it and using it for himself, Gorbad wants it to heal his wound so he can restart the Waaagh! And get revenge on the oomies and stunties, and Golgfag would want it because it could satiate his hunger, atleast for a time, and then he'd sell it to the highest bidder lol In immortal empire's it could also be an artifact like the sword of khaine or nemesis crown that spreads khorne corruption but heals your lord to full after a battle, gives them regen in battle, and probably some other melee buffs

[@TanitEB]

I forget which page, but the novel runefang has a dwarf character comment on the fate of Gorbad. I think it remains ambiguous . . . But I can't remember what he said and I don't have the novel on me. Also, how cool would it be if they say that he's been living his best life fighting in the realms of chaos this whole time as a way of bringing them into Immorral Empires.

[@kanseiyamazaru435]

By GORK n MORK! Could you imagine if there was a WHF version of, DA BEAST?!

[@keagancollins3243]

Did you get a new mic? your voice quality sounds awesome in this video

[@Shadowcam00]

_"The moons were high by the time he made it to the shaft"_ heh

[@lordredhood1858]

I'm just saying orks are plants and from the info you were giving it sounds like they are somewhat based on three growth as they can grow very tall if the have no competition and they live for hundreds of years just look at redwoods and some jungle trees

[@alharron2145]

I still think everyone's overthinking it: he fell down a big hole, & it took him 800 years to climb out.

[@alextrill1746]

Era of activity didn't matter for Vladabella or Repanse, why should it for an orky boi?

[@K740601]

Love your lore videos

[@loremasterofsotek]

Well I love your face! Thanks for the kind words!

[@alexr.5389]

I really like the thought of green skins messing with all our minds.

[@Icesong]

Not gonna watch this video since you said don't try hard to make sense of it.

[@raynightshade8317]

This is kinda making me hope that he comes back after the wound

[@sinsinsinat5377]

Lol dude cursing at literal ghost 27:20

[@noavgg]

Whatever exas for him to be LL in TWW is fine. The cusen lore seem to suggest that creen skin can live forever as long as there fighting and winning. But with this lore it seems that there should be a bigger penalty for greenskins when they lose and especially when a WHA collapse, it should probable lead to a weakening of the greenskin or maybe even death. Personally i think GW should change it so the greenskin livs for a fue hundred of years maybe att the top end a thousand year. think there are too many species that don't die of age in Warhammer.

[@loremasterofsotek]

Generally speaking, if a WAAAGH! fails, the Warboss behind it is almost entirely guaranteed to be dead with extremely rare exceptions. But the biggest thing preventing most Greenskins from living very long is actually themselves, as whenever a particular Orc or Goblin seems to be getting particularly large/powerful it will lead to other nearby tribes and rivals focusing an incredible amount of effort into killing them. This leads to the likes of Skarsnik, Gorbad, Grimgor, Azhag, Morglum, Gorfang, etc. being quite rare as when the VAST majority of Greenskins are reaching that Warlord status, some other Greenskin will damn near always kill them.

[@dept308]

who cares we got repanse

[@omikamiz568]

Ain there ar story about Hobgoblin die at old age??

[@alagass6466]

Saying hobgoblins aren't slaves is a stretch

[@GutsOfRivia]

As soon as Repanse made it into the game I knew when a character existed in the timeline was irrelevant.

[@loremasterofsotek]

Honestly as soon as I saw Vlad and Isabella von Carstein I felt pretty much the same, haha. Like...you can MAKE it work with some wiggle work, but obviously this is more of a Super Smash Bros situation of just getting everyone into the arena.

[@GutsOfRivia]

@@loremasterofsotek I would love seeing Magnus The Pious myself but thats def not a character that can work in anyway in WH3 fingers crossed for a WH Total War Prequel centered around the great war against Chaos.

[@skeith1543]

Dudes got a real chip on his shoulder about what reddit has to say. For someone calling himself 'lore master' he sure doesn't like being questioned. Im here to listen to you talk about warhammer, not offer snide insults to a group of people. If tgey bother you this much, perhaps they have a point...

[@fidelcashflow4940]

Crazy how it's his channel and he can do what he wants, also... being a lore master literally implies that you should educate people whenever a community is having an argument, misunderstanding over the lore.

[@skeith1543]

@@fidelcashflow4940 he sure can, just as I can criticize how he chooses to use that channel on the public forum I trust you had a valid point?

[@sandyd53]

Why do people ever doubt the loremaster❤🎉

[@ServantoftheGreatHornedRat]

Dem Reddit Gitz ‘r gonna get it boss!

[@dathremo.]

So is the Queek video cancelled or?

[@CatGamer794]

In a world with Dragons, undead and magic and some folks worry how realistic we should be with age 😂

[@daangoes121]

I like angry loremaster

[@Dethmajick]

Finally a good lore video again

[@CoyoteW]

Isn't Grom dead?