Star Trek The Next Generation Ruminations S5E04: Silicon Avatar

[@MariahSyn]

"Quickly, we have to kill them before they develop language skills" - Londo Mollari, regarding the bugs that have infested his quarters. As for myself, I'd be delighted to be able to communicate with a pest species (cockroaches for example) and perhaps convince them to leave as opposed to endless chemical warfare. Then again being able to communicate doesn't mean that you would even be able to reach some sort of accord. The terrifying part for me would be the fact if they are sentient and sapient, that denotes coherent organization and action. The war would reach a whole new level at that point.

[@TehMickey]

The third episode of the old Star Trek animated series “One of Our Planets Is Missing” is almost exactly the same story as this episode except they DO successfully communicate with the enormous planet devouring entity (it’s a sentient cloud rather than a crystal but functions the same) via Spock’s mind meld. Half the episode is explaining to the creature that tiny sentient beings live on her food and she diplomatically comes to an understanding of the harm she has caused. It’s worth checking out to see how this episode COULD have turned out.

[@jacklnu1614]

Sounds like recycle script job!

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

indeed, Lower Decks also references that (in a humorous tone of course)... got to say, I do really love what they did with the worldbuilding of Crystalline entities there...

[@Scottlp2]

One of my favorite episodes-agree it was very well done.

[@devonanderson2902]

I just want to mention that I rewatched this episode and enjoyed it! However, I saw a nitpick I've never noticed before. In the scene where Dr. Marr tries to accuse Data of luring the Crystalline Entity, she holds the tricorder upside down when attempting to use it at one point. Just thought I'd mention it for anyone curious to check it out.

[@tablescissors]

How dull.

[@ohgoditshimrun1346]

My thoughts before you began speaking: I really hope that you talk about how spectacularly Star Trek Online has always failed to learn the lessons of this episode. My thoughts after you finished speaking: Just the end credits card joke. Sigh. To review: MARR: I don't understand. Why are we pursuing the Entity, if not to destroy it? PICARD: We're not hunters, Doctor. Nor is it our role to exact revenge. MARR: What do you propose? We track it down, greet it warmly and ask if it would mind terribly not ravaging any more planets? PICARD: I don't denying that it may be necessary to fire on it. But I look on that as a last resort. MARR: Why? Why not just kill it? PICARD: I want to try to communicate with it. MARR: What? PICARD: We know from our own experience that our shields will protect us. So long as we're in no danger, I will make every effort to communicate. MARR: To what end? PICARD: If we can determine what its needs are, we might find other sources to supply it. MARR: Its needs are to slaughter people by the thousands. It is nothing but a giant killing machine. PICARD: Doctor, the sperm whale on Earth devours millions of cuttlefish as it roams the oceans. It is not evil. It is feeding. The same may be true of the Crystalline Entity. MARR: That would be small comfort for those who have died to feed it. We're not talking about cuttlefish, we're talking about people. PICARD: I would argue that the Crystalline Entity has as much right to be here as we do. Now, Commander Data has some theories on how we might communicate. Please confer with him.

[@davesmith6794]

There are a lot of posts discussing the technical and lore aspects of this episode, but I'd like to say a few things about the episode itself. Silicon Avatar was always one of my favorites, and that was mostly because of Ellen Geer (Dr. Kila Marr). She gave one the very finest guest performances of the series. From her distrust of Data to understanding and relying on him for her last contact with her deceased son, her turn on TNG was consummate. I should at this point mention that I have lost two children. People like me are very aware when watching any actor portray someone suffering from that decidedly unique sort of loss and horror, especially because of something that did not have to happen. Ellen Geer's performance was not only very good at capturing the myriad ways in which that kind of loss affects all of your future decisions and interactions, but avoided the (frankly, sometimes insulting) overacting prevalent on many television series. Speaking to her final decision...I can understand it. And not only from a personal standpoint, but also from a personally detached scientific (or in-universe) point of view. You see, I was always a little bit bothered by Captain Picard's analogy of sperm whales eating millions of cuttlefish. True, it does not make the whales evil, but it's not the most apt analogy. Many life forms are prey to other species, but evolution shows us that not only do prey species evolve better and better ways to avoid being eaten, but in many cases they evolve and use means with which to outright kill (or at least attempt to seriously harm) their predators. They develop horns, spikes or spines and the charging or thrashing strength in the right parts of their bodies to use them. Many fish and amphibians become toxic. Now, add intelligence to that mix, and you can make the counterargument to Picard's analogy that the cuttlefish have no responsibility or desire to simply line up on the buffet table. (And of all animals to use in his analogy, Picard ironically chooses one of the most intelligent of Earth's animal kingdom to make his point, as cuttlefish and other cephalopods rank in the top few genus'.) Even though I have the spirit of the explorer and fully believe in attempting to communicate with other species in a show of peace, I can't say with 100% certainty that I wouldn't have done the same thing as Dr. Marr in her situation, or perhaps done what she did even in Picard's place. That's what makes this episode among the very best of TNG. There's no clear-cut right or wrong. Did Dr. Marr ruthlessly kill the only known being of a space-living and unique race, or did she save perhaps billions of lives? I have to say that I cannot answer that. Perhaps we should ask the cuttlefish.

[@tablescissors]

I completely disagree with the destruction of the Silicone Avatar, but appreciate your remarks regarding the actress.

[@athrunzala6919]

The Silicon entity is Star Trek's Galactus, devourer of Worlds, and lore was its Silver Surfer searching for food for it. I also love how it "appears" in games like "Masters of Orion" and "Star Drive" as defenders of star systems.

[@francoislacombe9071]

When I first saw the Crystaline Entity shatter into a million pieces, my first thought was "Oh shit, maybe they just made things that much worse because all of those pieces could end up regrowing a whole Entity." That never came to pass of course, but try to imagine the devastation that many Crystaline Entities could have spread accross the galaxy.

[@jabaribloodbane]

Whats funny in STO that is what they say happened when you fight it.

[@tablescissors]

Intriguing notion, and another good reason not to tinker with life we don't understand.

[@tablescissors]

@@jabaribloodbane what is STO? Star Trek...what?

[@grantlloyd9131]

I think she had gone nuts, killing it it provided closure for her.

[@hamhockbeans]

Vengeance is a dish that is best served cold..it is very cold in space.

[@thexalon]

One reason Picard could have for wanting to communicate other than idealism: Intelligence gathering. Think about all we don't know about these things, like how it does what it does, are there more of them, and what it takes to motivate them to behave differently. That would be extremely useful information, even if the Enterprise does end up killing it in the process, for the next time the Federation encounters something like this. As an example of why keeping this thing alive might be useful: "Hey, you want some great food? There's a whole lot over here in Cardassian territory." That's not a move I'd expect Picard to make, but I wouldn't put it past Sisko.

[@tablescissors]

This, this, this.

[@milamila1123]

Yeah, no, if an ant communicated with me, I wouldn't be able to get over that very quickly.

[@gcooper642]

I was a bit disappointed that we didn't get to hear what it had to say. But the ending was very well done. The chemistry between Data and the scientist was excellent. I rewound it and watched the end again.

[@timf7413]

This was an episode that by memory I would put in the bottom tier until I watched it quite recently and realized I actually found it quite good.

[@Ash_Rein]

I just realized the crystaline entity is Star Trek galactus

[@joluoto]

But no Silver Smurfer

[@Ash_Rein]

Jonathan Luoto Hmmmm....I guess that lor could be considered its herald

[@hamhockbeans]

What about the Dooms day machine. Also imagine this crystal thing versus the Borg.

[@Seven35888]

I feel like she killed the entity out of vengeance and also to stop it from hurting anyone else… data reading her her sons letter in his voice was what made her snap finally , you could see it in her eyes

[@AlucardNoir]

Nah, Nagilum is lovecraftian, the crystalline entity is just big.

[@sharkdentures3247]

I am not expert on the subject, nor is my memory of this very good . .. But in my head canon, given how crystals work & grow (essentially reproduce), I had always wondered if there were now hundreds/thousands/MILLIONS of little crystalline entity babies/clones/copies out there now! (it was shattered after all, not dematerialized or something) Sure they are tiny (now). But they will feed (on comparatively small amounts of life), and over time they will grow. And when they reach maturity, they would swarm across the galaxy like a plague of locusts! Scary thought. And if they are stopped (shattered again), the next time they come back they would probably be well past the QUADRILLIONS! More scary thought.

[@MariahSyn]

Give it time, they might need a while to do so. *evil laugh*

[@davesmith6794]

I would think that only the very largest pieces would have any chance at finding, traveling to and then consuming terrestrial life for "food" before becoming inert (ie: dying). We only have carbon-based life to go on, but while larger, or more accurately fully-grown (since we're calling the pieces "babies"), instances need MORE food, smaller or younger ones need it more OFTEN. And who is to say that the tiny pieces are even capable of absorbing life in the way the entire entity does? We see it as an entity that is made solely of the same type of "stuff", but we have no knowledge of its internal workings. I doubt it's all "just crystal". Think about it...we have crystals here on Earth, but they're not capable of emitting life-destroying beams of energy. I believe there's more to a whole crystalline entity than just the sum of its parts. Maybe it doesn't have to be very BIG, (like a "baby") but it does have to be WHOLE. That's my take and scientifically educated guess, for what it's worth.

[@nickokona6849]

For me, the Crystalline Entity is very similar to Darth Nihilus from KoTOR 2. More like a force if nature than real agency. Nihilus was at one point a fully sapient person, but when we catch up with him, he’s described much more like a single minded animal or even just a natural positive feedback loop of a lifeform.

[@tablescissors]

What is KoTOR 2 ?

[@Horos101]

If the Crystalline Entity had no social interaction with anyone besides Lore, then who knows what the Entity might have thought when it realized that there were other beings capable of thought just like it. It might realize "oh crap, there are beings capable of clever thought that might try to kill me" and decide to - like Riker suggested - not take the risk and kill first. On the other hand, it could be intrigued. There is just no way to know.

[@tablescissors]

Exactly.

[@bobwill]

One of the things that I have pointed out when getting into arguments with people that say that a modern cellphone is way more powerful than a TOS communicator: We have seen that device establish communications across solar systems with the enterprise, at real time. This thing has a power source and a transmitter and receiver that rips a new one in the fabric of space time, and it does that without irradiating the person that is holding it. You’re looking at physics we can’t even dream of today, and it fits in your hand. Why is it so limited in functions? Probably lack of power sources, and trying to keep the complexity as low as possible, as it was right on the cusp of what they were technically capable of. I mean, I picture a research and engineering team slapping high fives for like 1/2 a day just to have somebody come over and be like “why doesn’t it have a camera in it?” Just to have like 3 guys start screaming about bitrates and the ability of their transmitter to deal with that much data in real-time.

[@corssecurity]

Lol

[@kevanos4636]

There are episode of Trek that establish that combadges can reach a Star Ship which is several hours away at high warp. Voyager - Resolutions is an example.

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

My thoughts on the “ants reach out to us” idea: I would be alarmed but fascinated. The idea of being able to negotiate the removal of conflict between us and something we consider a pest is just so appealing to me. I’d be alarmed and sorry for all the deaths I caused, but I’ve been fortunate enough to minimize those and I think I can live with that. On the crystalline entity: If we presume Datalore is fully totally canon and Lore can commune with it: I think it’s an evil abomination that needed to be eliminated for the sake of all life. If we assume that Lore either tricked it or we eject that aspect from the episode entirely, then I think it was at best: negligent. It had to know that humans were intelligent to some degree. They are capable of interstellar mobility while being planetary-based organisms, and that’s just not possible in nature so far as we know, unless the beings artificially and sentiently are expanding into space. Let’s assume for a moment that it could be a natural phenomena. Okay, that’s so rare the thing should absolutely know better than to eat them without checking.

[@tablescissors]

Dude, I totally got into Phase IV. Lore could communicate with it, and that's now why we can, but I disagree that it automatically corrupts the being. I suppose "tricked it", could be a way to describe what he did. The Crystiline Entity is a natural and ancient part of the universe.

[@DefSquadFan]

Nothing light about that flirting.

[@mikaelm5367]

I think the Crystalline entity is sentient, but it does not recognize us as such. Sure we build homes, and communicate, and travel, and all that stuff, but so do ants. I don't think it cares that we're there.

[@robinneher3262]

Okay. I have a question. What in the world was starfleet thinking by assigning this doctor with a personal history with the entity on this mission? She had no objectivity from the moment she sat foot on the Enterprise.. I would've kept her away from the Enity eewe I a Starfleet boss. JMO. She killed the entity out of guilt, not to give her son peace. I loved when Data told her that her Son wouldn't be happy with what she did. A good solid truth that she needed to hear.

[@tablescissors]

What is the son's name? Will I have to sit through this entire critique?

[@kitbashbob6426]

How did Lore communicate with the crystalline entity?

[@meamishere1166]

That occurred to me as well. The episode treats communication with it as a possibility yet we already know it's possible.

[@corssecurity]

Right, which is why Lore said he is prepared to eject season one episodes as Cannon for the sake of continuity.

[@tablescissors]

Technically, Lore figured out that it interacts and propels using gravitons. Not a simple thing to detect or utilize. Perhaps we didn't fully catch on to how he did it and had to rediscover the method? But, yes, it's one of many plot holes in the show.

[@iandixon6200]

Wonderful. I'll never see this the same way again. Wonderful insight.

[@hereticalramza]

It's slightly different, but the "What if you realized ants were sapient and sentient?" thing you're bringing up reminds me of that Stargate: Atlantis episode where McKay and Sheppard were playing that "game" and then found out their game was actually feeding instructions to real people living on a real planet and, yeah.

[@captmoroni]

11:07 Never use as test subjects any species capable of doing calculus. - Mordin Solus 21:25 The Crystalline Entity is Galactus. You don’t negotiate with it. You end it.

[@corssecurity]

Reed Richards negotiated with Galactus.

[@EnvisionerWill]

Pretty funny to imagine that Vorek was Dr. Mar's son here...

[@kevanos4636]

I wonder if the Entity is related to the life form from Home Soil?

[@Redshirt434]

So, one thing I like about this episode....the Enterprise crew meets the Crystalline Entity without Lore's baggage. While we get that sharp reminder that Data may be Lore's twin brother, but they are two ENTIRELY different people

[@GeppettoProductions]

This episode reminded me of TOS: "The Doomsday Machine" to some degree.

[@mandelbrot5]

Thank you, your thoughts on this episode has put it on my list of what I watch when I do my yearly (or more) watch of Trek. I don't think I've watched it in 20 years.

[@DrownedInExile]

Great episode, with some great Cthulu-esque horror. The Crystal was smart enough to ally with Lore, so they could have formed an accord to avoid populated planets. But the ending was such a cop-out. If JMS had wrote this, the creature would have either resisted Dr. Marr's harmful signal, or the Enterprise pulled the plug. But the Crystal is no longer interested in communicating, and starts moving off. Picard reluctantly opens fire. A chance of peace, tragically destroyed at the last minute.

[@Eelco_de_Boer]

Summary: the Enterprise chases after the Crystalline Entity, accompanied by a scientist who has a personal grudge with the Entity.

[@zuzoscorner]

"how dare you kill a being that killed billions" Me "no go ahead and kill it!" I have no regrets toward that bloody thing at all.

[@tablescissors]

It was always one of the saddest moments in Trek to me. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that yet again I have an unpopular opinion. lol. I am a little though, since my view aligns with Starfleet.

[@Ship-security]

People always say they would kill somebody that hurts their family on site. but there's a lot of murderers that walk out of a courtroom or out of a parole hearing and never catch a bullet or a knife blade. My point is killing is easier said than done. I don't believe anyone really knows what they will do in a situation like that until they are faced with it. I can see it from both angles, kill the thing before it strikes again, I think it would have been neat if somebody had posed the question what if this thing is a baby what if it has larger parents out there? I think in terms of if this was real, the doctor may not have acted with swift vengeance had she not heard her son's journal recording in his own voice just 24 hours prior.

[@tablescissors]

In fairness, killers are not ignorant of their crimes/actions, nor do they represent an omniverse of ancient life in the universe. Asking moral people to act immorally is difficult -- the whole "an eye for an eye" analogy comes to mind as well. That all being said, you totally have a point.

[@jacklnu1614]

I do not believe the doctor will severely disciplined considering the magnitude of killing the CE committed. It could be argued that Picard was off his rocker in pursuing a "Can we be friends" approach with the CE.

[@jeffreymaxson6216]

They let the Borg live in IBorg.

[@abraxaszee8953]

Dr Matt might have been nuts, but she was still right. Even if it were possible to communicate with the Entity, it still killed thousands or even millions and whether it was sentient or not the Enterprise still needed to destroy it.

[@Spartanj42]

If I was able to communicate with something like that and it wasn't inherently hostile or negative I would do everything I could to make an accord with it. There's a difference between revenge and maintaining one's honor. If something killed a close family member or friend, of course I would want revenge, but more importantly for me I would want to prove that I could best whatever it is that killed them. That's my take on the whole revenge thing, I guess I tend to think a little more like a "smart" Klingon.

[@EnvisionerWill]

If we could communicate with the Crystalline Entity, then it would just be Galactus. Keeping it alien was the way to go.

[@Species1571]

Many of us will recognise Susan Diol more from her role as George's "giant schnauzer" girlfriend on Seinfeld.

[@milamila1123]

Every life matters, Lore.

[@iandixon6200]

Do you think that the entity is beautiful as opposed to monstrous matters.

[@pvanukoff]

To make its destruction seem more tragic. If it were an ugly scary looking space monster, there'd be less empathy for it. Unfair, but that's how it is.

[@grantlloyd9131]

I wounder If Lovecroft was an insperation for the entity.

[@Belzediel]

Lore states specifically that he negotiated terms with the CE. Ergo, everything you have said is either repeating what Chuck noted or directly wrong.

[@tablescissors]

Correct, Lore could speak to it. He considered it a "friend".

[@vesuvanprincess]

I think my immediate response to a little ant-Picard claiming sapience would be to throw up. The dawning horror of so much Death?! *Shudder* From there I think I would have a nervous breakdown contemplating the upward climb to get certain political ideologies on board with protecting the world's ants. From there I think it would be a short slide to suicide as I confronted the impossible reality of such large scale "genocide" and suffering I was simultaneously complicit in and powerless to prevent. This is a reaaaally bad scenario Lore. 😱

[@jamesdenofantiquity]

It takes a parent's perspective to appreciate the anger and desire to take out that thing that has killed your son or daughter, no single person can ever understand the love and devotion of a parent, and I would posit that a mother's love is a little deeper than a fathers. They have had a living person inside of them for a long time, they have been a part of its growth, formation, and first experience in the world. Indeed, there is a unique muscle is touched and connected in the birthing process which is also connected and touched during intimacy. In this respect I hold nothing against the doctor I hold something against Picard. Imagine telling a person that everything it eats is something that is living, EVERYTHING, can you tell them to simply stop eating? How does it chose a planet or place that is not inhabited and, if evolution were in play, how does it think about not eating potential life forms? Remember Star Trek II? The Federation would not allow a science experiment unless the planet or body were completely lifeless. I would think that the Federation would think twice about allowing a planet devouring cosmic force to be roaming around unchecked.

[@tablescissors]

That means you are automatically valuing carbon-based life above all else. The Crystiline Entity evolved in the universe just as naturally as we did. It only attacked Omicron Theta because Lore lured it there.

[@Bojack727]

I just can't bring myself to condemn her for what she did... If I was in her position, I'd be just as emotionally broken, that I'd kill the damn thing, the same as you Lore. One line that stuck out to me that you didn't mention is when upon seeing the CE close up, she just calmly says "it's beautiful"... before carrying out her plan.

[@1300l]

I condemn her, it's not her call, she had to hijack the enterprise Systems to do it.. and it wasn't threatening them atm. It's Picard and the Federation call.

[@pvanukoff]

@@1300l It wasn't her call, no, but she was in a position to take it out, and she did -- right or wrong, I think many people in the same position would do the same. I just don't understand why the crew allowed her to have any direct control of what was going on. They knew she had a personal grudge against it, they knew she wanted to destroy it, etc.

[@tablescissors]

@@pvanukoff Valid point.

[@mr51406]

It’s an episode with a good premise but I have to fast forward through the soapy melodrama. The death ray effects were excellent. If Data had to quote her son, how about something like “You’re nuts, old woman!” instead of the syrup. In many episode I’d love to add more robust lines to make it “move along home” with a bit more energy… My taste… Anyway obviously anyone can play with the bridge computers unsupervised. Good jobs there Worf, Data and Jordi…

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

my feeling is that the only one who was truly wanting to communicate was Picard... also, maybe Data. for the rest, they were with Riker, quietly, if not sabotaging, at least, looking the other way to let things "happen by chance" the way they did

[@tablescissors]

@@stanislavkostarnov2157 That's an eerie idea.

[@jani11]

Damned good rumination, Lore! And yeah, i'd kill the entity too. Needs of the many. Also, we can't lock up the murderous entity, right?

[@nin6246]

I wouldn't have killed the crystalline entity. I don't believe in revenge.

[@Ash_Rein]

Please try not to kill insects and arachnids We lost 40% of that overall population. We need them for many many things

[@tablescissors]

There is honestly a huge movement about this in gardening and more natural yards. See also, Buddhism.

[@ChocolatierRob]

Well your ant analogy is faulty. The entity was not destroying people out of any kind of territorial impulse, it was feeding on them. A much better analogy is (annoyingly) vegetarianism - if the animals you eat... scratch that, an even better analogy would be _fruitarianism._ If the animals _and_ vegetables you ate suddenly showed that they are sapient and sentient would you stop eating them? Would you switch to only eating things that have already ‘died’ of natural causes? Would you switch to food that was never alive but created synthetically? In your ant analogy (spiders for me) if they suddenly became sentient/sapient there would be no _need_ to kill them because you could simply *demand* that they leave your territory or face the consequences. There we go, I’ve given you an answer without giving you an answer but a new question instead... OK fine. Even if pigs met the requirements implied there is no force in the universe that would make me give up tasty tasty bacon. I AM the Crystaline Entity for oinkers.

[@tablescissors]

Interesting thoughts.

[@andrewkyriacou6405]

I enjoy this episode and I've got a few responses to the thoughts and questions for the audience. Before I do I don't have much to say about the A plot. I think it was well done and there were some strong shown emotions there. But as for the crystalline entity I have plenty of thoughts: First I'll talk about the ants comparison. As with most analogies it kind of breaks down but if ants started communicating with me my priority would be: Can we arrange a situation where they get out of my house and don't bug me? If no then I will continue to kill them when I see them in my house. The reason being that they're still invading my house and potentially causing problems e.g. getting into the food, causing damage to the structure etc. Next was your comparison to the entity as a Lovecraftian horror. I disagree. We don't understand much about the creature but that's only because not a lot of resources have been dedicated to understanding it. There are definitely some elements of it that I can agree with but there's one very important reason I disagree with this comparison: We can do something about it. Maybe I'm wrong here but I always got the impression that a starship that was aware of the entity could kill it at any time. Sure if you're on a planet and not prepared it is a terror and could eat you, but if you're in a ship? I expect a few torpedoes would blow it right up. One of the main points of threats in Lovecraft is that you can delay their arrival maybe even briefly thwart their plans, but they will eventually succeed and that is the end for everyone and there's nothing you can do to stop that for good. Last one is Intelligence and communication. From what I've seen about the entity it seems to act more like a beast than a sapient creature. When they start talking to the entity it seems to back off almost in shock and then slowly close back in when it sort of realises what's happening. To me this would be similar to if you started meowing or barking at a cat or dog that didn't know you. It might back off at first because it doesn't know you but when it realises you're not harming it and instead interacting with it it will get curious and approach a little closer and maybe meow or bark back. Lore proves communication is possible, and so does this episode since they are getting a response. So I don't doubt this thing has some intelligence, again I liken it to a beast. Could they set up a situation where the entity is given food so it doesn't kill people? Maybe. But even if they succeed in making it understand that it's still a threat. You fail to feed it and it gets hungry it's going to go to the nearest planet and strip it I have no doubt of that. My reasoning for all this beyond its simple actions and reactions is that you don't see a civilisation of these things somewhere, maybe there is in the far flung reaches of the galaxy and this is just a lost child or something but all signs point to this being an aberration rather than part of a civilisation that's intelligent enough to understand abstract concepts and have an understanding of things beyond its own needs. So yeah that's my thoughts on the crystalline entity. I think they should have continued to attempt to communicate with it for as long as it didn't act hostile or attempt to attack another planet, just for the simple reason that Starfleet does attempt to seek out new life and explore and all that. But I would also never trust it to be on its own and not eat people, I would always have my finger on the trigger as it were.

[@tablescissors]

Yeah, agree, it's definitely not Lovecraftian, just trendy to say that now. A pity because the descriptive holds more power when applied applicably. The real problem with the Crystalline Entity is that you just don't know if it's a "beast" or not. We never got to find out. I do not think that it is, but I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

to me... I have a mixed feeling about ants, on the one hand, a did have a significant phobia of them as a child, (having grown up in a part of the world where marching ants were a thing) on the other, having read about there organization and abilities, I have grown to believe them basically fairly close to sentience... much more so than many a mammals we consider "clever". today, whilst I do occasionally kill ants, it makes me feel rather bad about it. but the thing, ants or even giant hornets (a creature I have similar but stronger feelings towards) are not a "threat" like this kind of creatures. inside, I do not believe it is the-same issue they faced. a closer one maybe might have been my feeling towards great geological forces.... if *(by some magic power or technology) I could snap hurricanes or volcanos out of existence, would I, or would I prefer to retain there majestic terrors for future generations to see (& yes, before people ask, I have experienced both being in the eye of a super-storm and being under an ash cloud first hand)

[@kardy12]

That’s a good attempt at justifying vengeance at the end...

[@1300l]

This episode is meh for me. I don't like the Data "mother" plot. I also find it a terrible security breach that she can fire photons torpedo (even if at the bridge) and the Enterprise has no security checks. I wanted to like this episode but i really don't. About the Ant.. yea it would horrify me too. That's why i try to avoid, even though i do it if i need. About the Christaline Entity, i feel it was about to chat to coexist, after all it did coexisted with Lore, that's why Picard felt bad they kill it.

[@harpercole5321]

I hated the ending of this one the first time around, and have tended to avoid it since. Perhaps because TNG generally has happy endings, I regard them as the norm? It's well done though, a moral dilemma more in the mould of DS9.

[@MissTea_Trekkie]

I might be in the minority, I didn't like this episode very much and it seemed forgettable. I think it is the way TNG works, nothing happened after this episode as consequences and nothing followed this. I felt that it was such a big event to destroy the entity and Data to access diaries that something should be changed.

[@tablescissors]

I agree it is an episode ripe with potential that was just left there. However, it was a favorite (although it made me forever sad), although I accept your reasoning for disliking it.

[@Thathumanoverthere1701]

I would not be bothered but let them know, sorry, but you guys gotta get out of here.

[@EnvisionerWill]

I anthropomorphise bugs even while I'm killing them, but then I only barely consider it unethical to kill people, depending on how they behave. I don't feel that every person has the ability to become a "worthy" person, by whatever definition; many people are already little better than insects IMO, and so finding out that bugs are people too wouldn't make me hate them any less - if anything, I'd want them to die MORE, before they could pick up all the most repulsive aspects of humanity to go with their unpleasant biological baseline.

[@markbeck449]

This reads like something out of a serial killer's manifesto.

[@tablescissors]

LOL. Oh, I like you.

[@quasimodojdls]

First, three nitpicks.... 1.) Marr does her whole rigamarole on the bridge in order to kill the entity with Troi literally feet away and yet our intrepid counselor doesn't sense anything until sh*t is literally hitting the fan, and only then responds to a direct question from Picard with the ultra-vague "something's very wrong, Captain"? God, this woman is useless sometimes! 2.) Why are we never told why the colonists were able to survive in the cave? A huge deal is made out of the fact and yet no explanation is ever given. 3.) "I did it for you, Renny.". Why are Trek writers so incapable of creating antagonists that challenge Federation ideology who are in complete control of their wits. Instead Marr has to be presented as suffering from a form of mental incapacity in order to question Picard. Fully cognizant, strong characters acting in good faith are almost never allowed to question Federation dogma. The final scene where Data becomes an echo chamber for said dogma is a particular low point. Now, the big question: was Marr wrong in what she did? Absolutely not! Picard was dead wrong on this one. Count me firmly with Riker in the pragmatic group. Why does the episode expect us to spend so much time wondering if communication with the Entity is possible? We know it is. The characters, in lore, know it is. Lore communicated with it - TWICE! At one point in "Datalore" we see Lore talking and responding to it. It is obviously sapient and knows that humanoids are as well. It just doesn't care; it's still content to feed on them. Picard's analogy to a whale feeding on cuttlefish is particularly bad. If the Entity was non-sapient, like a whale, would anybody seriously hesitate to kill it if it was feeding on people instead of fish?! And if it is sapient, as we've already established that it is, then killing it is no more than self-defense (not to mention defense of those two worlds it was headed toward when the Enterprise located it). It doesn't matter why Marr did what she did. If it was pure cold-calculus, vengeance or.... whatever, the fact remains that she just saved the lives of countless people on those two planets. Sometimes killing in self-defense is necessary. To quote Picard himself from "Peak Performance" - "That is not a weakness. That is life."

[@1300l]

Why was Picard wrong in try to communicate with it, where it wasn't threatening the enterprise and it is a fact that Lore knew how to communicate, talk and even coexist with the entity? Picard said him self, once they would be in risk near it he would destroy it.

[@quasimodojdls]

@@1300l Because the episode makes it very clear that he's only trying to communicate with it because nobody knows if it is possible. But, we know it is. The audience saw Lore communicating with it. Even in-universe they know it's possible - Data, Crusher and Wesley all directly observed Lore communicating with it.

[@corssecurity]

You all missed the point where Lore said he's Prepared to eject season one episodes in favour of continuity. Datalore is season one. So Lore (Soong android) communicated. How? Words, images? Pheromones? Electrical impulse, magnetic pulse. Did he establish dialogue or set bait / lure. Not explained. Whales are smarter than humans.

[@NOTHEOTHERGUY]

Picard is suuuuuch a hypocrite! Did he try to communicate with the aliens who infiltrated Star Fleet back in season 1's "Conspiracy"? Why not?

[@redpillfreedom6692]

He showed more eagerness to save a ravenous entity that killed on a planetary scale than he did to save a whole civilization from being wiped out by a natural phenomenon.