Losing Player Trust - The Data Dilemma - Extra Credits

Companies rely on metrics to tell them how players respond to a game, which can mean that short-term bumps (like revenue gained by adding microtransactions) disguises real player unhappiness with a game's quality and a publisher's integrity over time.
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[@extrahistory]

Sales and player engagement numbers are all fine and good, but how do we track some of the most important "soft" metrics, like players' trust in a publisher or development studio? PLUS! Grab the limited-edition shirt based on the best-selling video game that never existed, Hecknomancer! store.dftba.com/products/hecknomancer-shirt-limited-edition-shirt-uni-curved-fits

[@Gojiro7]

it must have been hard too write this episode and resist the urge to throw certain companies under the bus for how they've betrayed the trust of their consumers in recent times.

[@chimichangle]

Extra Credits It would be pretty great if you guys made a short poll to demonstrate this. I only had two concerns by the end of the video: how would the poll be structured (considering the amount of publishers out there, a 1-1 comparison poll would take forever), and who would host this poll (if a specific publisher created the poll, it would be biased towards asking for information about itself)

[@bradleymallard6347]

I did not buy shadow of war because it had lootboxes it is greedy, manipulative and undermines the point of playing the game. No one asked for PvP. No one asked for random orcs you buy to die making you essentially throw your money away. If they had kept the same business model as the last game I would have gladly played it even the DLC Edit also the plan for Day 1 DLC to be a character of Dev who died of cancer that is wrong on so many levels

[@About37Hobos]

Extra Credits please do an episode on loot boxes would love to hear your opinion

[@brightkharma]

Extra Credits this is a good episode that I hope gets heard everywhere. Personally as much as I love overwatch and have thrown money at it, I won't buy the comic collection book they released. Blizzard said all world building and lore would be free and that book has exclusive stories in it.

[@MrZebrot]

How hard it must've been to do this entire episode without using the words Electronic Arts

[@maglorian]

not that hard I'd imagine, there are after all also Activision-Blizzard, Valve, Warner Brothers and Ubisoft (and possibly many others as well)

[@TheFlusteredCustard]

MrZebrot can't be EAsy

[@FonVegen]

Add Bethesda to that list.

[@louth2882]

You spelt EA wrong it’s Electronic Arseholes

[@SpaceMissile]

Why Bethesda? Sure they're not perfect, but i personally think they're pretty good. They gave away Skyrim SE to anybody that previously bought the DLCs, and have dumped a bunch of resources into VR games to help bolster the VR market (something I'm appreciative of). I think they steam workshop deal is a little microtransaction-ey, but on the other hand, they've integrated player mod support into their games, which was another thoughtful move. Why do you think bethesda is untrustworthy?

[@xyoung8687]

Instead of ranking trust companies with an arbitrary number, what if we put them into tiers? A- I would buy a game I wouldn't otherwise be interested because it was made by this company B- I would be more likely to buy a game I'm interested in if it was made by this company C- This company has no influence over whether or not I would buy a game D- I would be less likely to buy a game I'm interested in if it was made by this company E- I would skip a game I would otherwise be very interested in if it was made by this company

[@isabellemccarthy7712]

That's the whole point of the system, every single person has a different opinion. The data is meant to be relative and not really comparable between two individuals. I myself Highly trust alot of smaller indie companies over most AAA publishers, as many games that comes out of the indie seen just ooze charm and fun, same reason I tend to trust nintendo. The whole point is that with these three, we show a dislike of most larger companies that abuse their playerbase, while supporting smaller companies that make better games, cd projekt red would be very high on alot of lists, including myself. Obsidian would also be very high up for me. If this kind of survery was done to maybe... 10,000 people, you would start to see how certain companies hold against each other.

[@kakahass8845]

i would be like C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C C beCause i almost never stiCk with a franChise i'm just like "hey this game is Cool" and i get it

[@GIGATHEBOT]

E is was put there only for ea

[@sploofmcsterra4786]

Some people aren't self aware enough to choose these.

[@timetravellingblockhead2122]

A-Nintendo E-Electronic Arts

[@Omahdon]

"Take your time, I'm sure you can think of an example." HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[@Gameknight2169]

Electronic... HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[@Josh1EWawa]

Ubi- HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[@hyperion90901]

Beth- HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[@gr8645]

lol, nope.

[@MaxJ.ProfessionalLilGuy]

Damn, they talked about Bethesda's Fallout 76 mess a year early

[@thepoglin8479]

yeah and theres probably an episode out there with cyberpunk 2077s scenario

[@Christopher_TG]

Seriously, Bethesda's Fallout 76 is a case study in how a studio can destroy decades worth of good will (Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Skyrim, Fallout 4) with one catastrophic mistake.

[@robertlarson7224]

@@Christopher_TG I’d say Bethesda has one more chance for most folks. We’ve all gotta agree, their single player stuff is still good. They just need to give up on all these shitty MMOs that are very clearly turning a huge swathe of their fan base against them.

[@Christopher_TG]

@@robertlarson7224 I 100% agree. As a longtime Bethesda Game Studios fan, I look at F76 as a failed experiment by a game studio that needed a source of income in the years between the release of Fallout 4 (2014) and Starfield (2022). And they have such an amazing track record of producing quality single-player games that I'm willing to forgive their one attempt at an MMO that didn't go well. Now, if Starfield or ES6 flops, then they're in trouble.

[@user-ko1bg5wg8n]

I pirated Witcher 3 cause I am a piece of shit. But while playing it I couldn't help but notice all the care and love they put in crafting the game, I watched behind the scenes videos, how they composed music, how they took inspiration from real mythology. I cried at the story of a werewolf who was tricked to eat his wife and asked me to end his suffering cause he couldn't live with what he has become, I felt real sympathy for such a nuanced character like Blood Baron, I genuinely laughed at the friendly banter of witcher bros..I wish I had friends like Lambert ... so much fun.. And when I see a game like this it becomes a matter of honor and gratitude for me to reward the developer, so I bought the game with all DLC's in Steam. I wish long live for CD Project. I guess what I am trying to say is: trust not only matters for sales, it also can turn the asshole into loyal customer.

[@mushroomdude123]

Шизл манизл You did good. I still owe Toby Fox $10 for Undertale...

[@jameskinard]

Шизл манизл This is also why studies find that pirating games buy more games, you got a full trial of the game by pirating. Found it was freaking fantastic and spent more than you would otherwise. Wholesome for everyone. :D

[@CrossRoadsOfTime]

That's true. I had a similar situation happen to me twice. I didn't pirate any game, but i was watching a person play though a game, I had no intention of buying cause I wanted to watch the story and not have to buy it. Well watching the guy play it I kept wanting to try those levels for myself and wanting to see what happened if things where done differently. I did buy the games, and then went on to buy the DLC that i could get. For me this was Portal 2 and Fallout 3 That said there are times where things can pan out like Dan warned, like mobile version of Final Fantasy 15. They really push the micro transactions things hard. And micro really isn't the proper word for them. with their shop items costing $30-$100 there's nothing micro about it. still I decided to buy a package once as it offered a big boost and in the early levels the game is super fun. it becomes less fun as you get higher in levels. not only do the wait er building timers get to the point you gotta wait days for them to finish I'm at level 17, but it starts to get more obvious around 15 and I've totally stopped playing it now. I actually don't mind the wait timers that much they are quite annoying but still there are times where I'd want a short set things up and then see what happens latter type session, and for a while the game delivered on that. but there's a hard limit on the amount of resources your city can produce no matter how long you give it. At the start of the game this is not an issue as you only need a few low level buildings to keep up. but at the level i'm at now. at least 90% of the things left to do require more then my resource cap in one or more of the resources. And lets not forget about the pvp thing that's really the only way to get more, unless you wait even longer on mines and while your doing that you'll likely be a target for someone else looking for a quicker resource hit. as you gotta send out your army to do the mining and thus your city is not defended. or they can attack the army while it's mining an not only get the loot from the mine you lose all the resources put into make those people. and then they can attack your city next as your defenses are down. The game says being in a guild helps with that. but even though i'm deep into guild territory and in a pretty sizeable and active one that ends up being little more than a chat room. so it's really become unplayable because even the other armies around me are so buffed up with paid stuff I can't make a dent in them with out slinking in just as much money and the game just isn't worth that kind of cash.

[@TheMagnay]

Well yeah most definitely, that is the same reason i bought some games like subnauticia, undertale and the escapists. I watch someone play it on youtube and they look well created so i wanted to support the dev. It is also the reason i pre ordered overwatch collectors, cause i have played almost every blizzard game and loved each and every one of them.

[@FlyingJetpack1]

From all the game studios i know, the only one that offered me a survey was Riot games. Which is pretty absurd considering how many gaming companies had my email for the past few years. And even at times where i actually actively search for a survey (in times where the studio did something drasticly good or bad), it's rare to find anything, or just finding super outdated surveys that i bet no one on their team checked for 3 years.

[@SebSenseGreen]

They'll probably pull a Valve with Hecknomancer 3. We'll never see it come out.

[@coolsceegaming6178]

3:51 I like the trend of when you say ‘heck’ a snek appears somewhere on screen.

[@stevencurtis7157]

When companies try to quantify trust, I worry that they will just dive deeper into the psychology of human manipulation for monetary gain, concerned more with their perceived trust than their actual good will toward players.

[@jericodawsonmarcos7529]

Human manipulation is evident in the current state but nontheless there will always be that critical thinker in the community no matter how big the odds are

[@klyxes]

...and this is what's happening now. (Well, has been continuing for years)

[@pikmaniac2643]

It’s a fine line, but honestly in a field like entertainment, the potential for harm would be much less than what most political groups already do.

[@Cheddarific]

Isn’t all of gaming a form of “human manipulation for monetary gain”? Games are created to make us feel, experience, learn, think, and/or do certain things that cause dopamine spikes. Micro transactions and other things mess that up, which is why they are problematic. I want game developers to know how to make games more fun.

[@stuporman]

Bungie in a nutshell, I swear their fans are the most delusional addicts out there. and their PR along with damage control is one of the best.

[@addisonrahn7984]

I appreciate the not-subtle-at-all but totally deniable roasting that just happened.

[@gmanbo]

inr it was quite good and on point

[@patsg1146]

Man, this video is brimming with common sense! If only some wealthy people on top of somEA company could come down from their magic cloud to see it... and devellop Hecknomancer, I'd buy that!

[@WuCSquad]

Ah Common sense... the one reason why I hope Paradox will also check out this video as they´re destroying their company, build on trust, one Common Sense type DLC at a time.

[@ZelphTheWebmancer]

That would be a heck of a game

[@on_certainty]

+

[@thtsimv]

I heard that the sequels aren't as good as the first one.

[@callumogrady8034]

Can you elaborate why you don't like Paradox dlc?

[@indigodarkwolf]

Scott's visualizations were hilarious in this video. I almost couldn't stop myself at the "Emoji Movie over Mad Max Fury Road" picture. That facial expression given to Dan's character, oh man.

[@diyagheith1]

Personally im ok with microtransactions..... in free games.... but when I pay 20 kds or 60 dollars if you're living the US for a game. I expect to have no microtransactions. And have the whole game in there

[@kiarariex]

What is kds?

[@diyagheith1]

Next X the currency in Kuwait 1 kd = 3 dollars

[@Brass_Heathen]

Novel concept...

[@kiarariex]

Lol wut? Wow... so Kuwait economy is really great compare to my country which is only 0.23 cents Malaysia btw Sorry for the dumb reply.

[@diyagheith1]

Next X yeah it is actually.... but when I first came here 4 years ago It felt like everything was cheaper. The ps4 is 100 kds which is 400 dollars.... most people who come here get tricked because of this currency.

[@firockfinion3326]

I'm not saying that this video is about EA and Star Wars Battlefront II... But I'm not saying that it's NOT about EA and Star Wars Battlefront II.

[@HalikBun]

'Twas an episode of "Extra Burns." :P

[@mrheroprimes]

also EA's ufc 3 as well

[@aoifemcandless-davis226]

Don't forget Ubisoft's Ass Creed Origins. That was a much more direct call out.

[@FFKonoko]

It's also a lot about Shadow of War...and really, quite a few other games. Take 2 interactive said they're putting such things in ALL their upcoming games....look forward to lootboxes in red dead redemption 2, I guess.

[@teilzeitbernd]

>Implies anyone would place any trust into EA to begin with That's just silly.

[@alexcannella4]

The lowest key roast in the history of game commentary.

[@chaosdirge4906]

I don't think it was a roast really. episodes like this are planned far in advance. I'm sure this was going to be talked about before the EA controversy with lootboxes because its a trend that's needed to be covered. It's just a topic that says "you know what, the truth hurts."

[@archsteel7]

*Bethesda would like to know your location*

[@practicepositiveprogress5396]

Brand trust is honestly so important. I'm typically on the beauty side of youtube and it's often discussed how several brands that once had amazing and reliable formulas are starting to have inconsistent formulas. I mean it's largely opinion but when a brand known for hits starts releasing stuff that is mediocre, or even bad, people stop trusting that every product will be a hit. Whether that is video games or makeup.

[@Diveji]

I think you should create such questionnaire. Do it regularly (like once a quarter) and later publish results online. You already have a great audience of gamers and game developers alike. That's the perfect position to start such a poll. I'd for one love to put my thoughts in there, as would most of your viewers, I assume. Imagine if it catches on - Because such data would be publicly available, many gamedev companies would have to be on lookout for them. Then those companies could analyse those data as you suggested in video and that would make their games all the better for us - the players!

[@DarkarDengeno]

Diveji Good idea!

[@MrJonniman007]

And if you cantact a few other gaming-related youtubers and ask them to just bring that survey up once in a while, then you have access to a giant surveybase

[@PixieBulb]

I throw my support behind this idea. Extra Credits is already a trustworthy source for a lot of people, and I think someone needs to start somewhere before the idea really takes off in a widespread way.

[@josecocco2590]

I completely agree great idea

[@yitz7805]

please do this

[@leiwulong]

This video is giving me a sense of pride and accomplishment

[@timetostop9221]

I was only able to watch half of it before I needed to open a loot box with another 4 minutes of watch time. I feel so proud and accomplished by my 15 dollar purchase.

[@dream6562]

T I M E T O S T O P basically dont spread word of mouth, loved last of is? Dont talk about it, loved the witcher 3? Dont talk about it

[@justmovedin]

Gerardo Mendez What drugs are you on

[@IAMSTRINDOM]

Just Moved In hey man, don't spread word of mouth of his drug use. he just doesn't wanna hear about "loved last of is."

[@tomjackal5708]

someone help he's having a stroke

[@pkliskiki1800]

Companies trustworthiness exemples: EA 1/10 Nintendo 9/10

[@minccinoluna805]

no EA -10000000000000000/10

[@martysdogs8]

Kiki Lucena Also, DE 10/10

[@sirnesbit1285]

I Hate Anime There’s a reason it’s 9/10 and not 10/10

[@impervas5801]

Any good Indie game studios 100/10

[@drtornado5251]

Team Cherry 10/10

[@JohnJRM]

The visuals in this episode were so on point

[@Madhattersinjeans]

My favourite example of a company using hard data despite player complaints is from hearthstone. For a long long time the players wanted more than 9 deckslots. But the devs simply stated that players didn't need extra ones because according to the data players were only using 8 at most. (Among other absurd claims that really riled up the playerbase, to the point where players were actively making mock ups for how the game could incorporate more in case the devs were too stupid to figure this out themselves. :P) What was happening was players were using up to 8 deckslots and keeping the last one open as a utility option, people needed that extra space in case they wanted to try a weird deck. So the data showed players didn't use all of the deckslots but this was because ironically there weren't enough deckslots for players to use. Point is, sometimes "hard data" can give you misleading conclusions that seem obvious but are in fact tied to something that cannot be measured. And blizzard are a company notorious for brow beating the playerbase as being too stupid to come up with realistic ideas. Along with being far too slow to respond to player demands and suggestions. (they never come out and explicitly say the players are stupid but it comes through in their press releases if you read between the lines) Which is why I no longer play hearthstone (among other reasons), despite having invested a fair amount of time and money into it. Go play elder scrolls or faeria or some other card game folks.

[@Blak0the0mag]

Yeap, Blizzard really have problem with this direction. After WoW vanilla controversy with infamous "You think you do, but you don't" quote, it's really starts to seem they lose a lot of understending of customer\player. And because of that, making of WoW classic server and it PR look very hipocritical. This kind if feedback, from some time ago user favorite company, are disapointing to say the least

[@ScottAndNumbers]

Blizzard does this with almost all their games. Remember when everyone came out and flagged them for their first special event in Overwatch where you couldn't buy anything with in game Gold, forcing people to buy more and more Loot boxes if they cared to get the thing they wanted? Ya, EA did not do it first all you people claiming so. And yes, Blizzard did change this in future events, but they also never even acknowledged that what they did was bad and often even said it was exactly how they wanted it. And to be fair, part of me questions how much of it is Blizzard and how much of it is Activision.

[@KaiserAfini]

Mad Hatters in jeans Try Gwent, CDPR actively listens to feedback.

[@TheMongooseOfDoom]

Out of Blizzard's games, I only play Overwatch, and I think their communication and general handling of the game has been excellent.

[@strongrudder]

That reminds me of the old story about using data to determine where to add armor onto warplanes. The locations of bullet holes from returning aircraft were recorded, with the intention of finding and armoring the areas with the most holes. Makes sense to armor the places the planes were hitting hit a lot, right? But one analyst pointed out that no - this data doesn't tell the whole story. The sampling of aircraft doesn't include the planes that *failed to return home.* The bullet holes being recorded were holes that *didn't* kill their aircraft. So ultimately, the areas with notably fewer holes were the ones considered for extra armoring.

[@jimuren8223]

This is the funniest I've seen EC in a while. The passive comedy is top notch.

[@britishninja]

It was great to see you guys in the youtube rewind , honestly its pretty bad they had to shove you in the credits with half the screen being covered by other people, but still you guys were honestly one of the best parts of that video

[@Lorthein]

What a good surprise was to see you guys on this year's KZbin Rewind! Not my favorite, but your presence there redeemed it :D

[@Tsutaru]

THANK YOU. OH MY GOD THANK YOU. How many years do we have to scream this before things change? I'm so glad you made this episode...I work in mobile F2P and it feels very lonely trying to push and fight against predatory data-driven decisions when everyone else can only see money. People still aren't listening, and from what I have seen to far, they only WILL listen once they have a chart to look at; they just can't imagine what they can't see. I would do anything to help make a "trust chart" a reality, along with other points of soft data. I would absolutely help establish an institution which publicly collects this info; just tell me how I can help and I will. I care so much for this media and for this industry, and so many business people and corporate people just will not listen without trusted, institution-provided data to back it up. Also, this episode had the chao garden song at the end, which really was just the cherry on top.

[@Hebdomad7]

Tsutaru This kinda crappy bussiness practices is why I don't play mobile games anymore. I'm willing to pay money for them. ...but when theses games sacrifice good gameplay to get me to pay. I'm out. Heck I'm burned on free to play games for this reason.

[@stevethepocket]

If you work specifically in F2P, you should know to expect this. It is literally the only thing keeping that industry from going bankrupt.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

Companies that have lost my trust, like Ubisoft, EA, and Creative Assembly have caused me to actively ignore all their marketing. I refuse to get hyped for their games and automatically assume it's going to be terrible, no matter what they show in trailers or promise to the players. If the reviews are good, I still wait a month and make sure the reviews are still good, because sometimes it takes 50-60 hours to realize that their entry into the franchise is utter rubbish. Nevertheless, I feel the need to point out that the vast marketing budgets they shill out on these games are completely lost on me because I treat it as the ravings of a snake oil salesman, because nothing they say can be trusted by me anymore.

[@supersaltlee7657]

ltflak why creative assembly?

[@Edax_Royeaux]

Rome 2 was a complete disaster. Their pre-alpha advertisements were nothing like what was finally released, the AI was dead on arrival, the game was overloaded with bugs, extremely poor game design that was intended for steamlining, and predatory DLC the locked the Sparta faction out of the game if you didn't pre-order. They also released a series of development videos called Rally Point that were a pack of lies, designed to generate hype. Rome 2 happens to be the last game I ever preordered. I should have known better, after the buggy mess of Empire Total War, which they never bothered to fix, but I really wanted to play as Sparta (which really makes it feel like I was swindled.) The video: "Sane Critique, Why Rome 2 Failed" goes into all the detail about the sheer scale of everything wrong with the game, or you could just watch Angry Joe's less detailed review. I'm a big fan of the Total War series, I can never look at CA in a positive light ever again. Too many betrayals.

[@TheFightingRebel]

I'd also point to War hammer as someone who's followed CA for years. Sell a game with a major lack in content then charge 20 for each new faction - than charge full price for a "new" war hammer which is pretty much just an exp pack while also delaying promised major content for months. (but have the time to keep pumping out DLC) It's insulting. I suppose I should be thankful - maybe my life will be productive with shitty games lol

[@129das]

Ubisoft I trust them to make the same game 10 different ways. But as long as they don't pull out a AC unity again. WTF was that shit.

[@natkatmac]

That's why I buy all my games used or in the bargain bin. I can easily get a AAA game for 20 to 30 bucks, plus plenty of time has passed and I can see how much of the positive scores were hype and how much was legit. It's a long time to wait, usually one year, but I never feel the need to be the first to experience something. So long as I eventually get to experience a game I'm looking forward to, I'm happy.

[@turbojake3457]

HECKNOMANCER IV *THE RETURN OF THE HECKS*

[@CavCave]

Hecknomancer V The Final Heck

[@pranjalawasthi6401]

*HECKNOMANCER INFINITE*

[@brokenblender5544]

HECKNOMANCER VI: THE HECKONING

[@MantaKizaemonFTW]

Peck

[@tristenarctician6910]

@@CavCave HECKNOMANCER VI NECROMANCER OF THE HECKS

[@sowingtreesinstorms]

Congrats on the KZbin rewind appearance. You were the only thing I got excited about while watching that (and just about the only channel I recognized.)

[@martinmlakar5093]

Congrats on being in the yt rewind!

[@rcookie5128]

yeah was so happy to see Extra credits in the _credits_ of YT Rewind '17 I almost jumped up in my seat :D

[@gabrielxavier2676]

Me too, I couldn't believe my eyes! I felt so proud! I guess they grew bigger and I didn't see it

[@Revenante_of_Asylum]

When you think about it, EA did get a public trust survey when they were voted the worst company in America. Might've been a good idea for them to have reflected on that.

[@Erika-gn1tv]

Or, it gave them the idea that they have nothing left to lose.

[@mordinsolis6133]

EliteRevenant EA rightfully gave no shits about that vote. They got voted worst company in a year when other compaines actually killed people, so its pretty clear that gamers are just salty shits who think the world revolves around themselves. How is ea „ruining“ a game worse than BP spilling oil into the sea, or mining companies killing their workers ?

[@rmsgrey]

They're directly screwing over their customers? If BP were selling fuel that caused car engines to seize up, then they'd lose a lot more public trust...

[@Qaeta]

EA was directly affecting more people's lives. Sure, a company killing the workers is terrible (we'll for the moment pretend EA would NEVER do something like that /s), but it really doesn't affect many people.

[@bobbyferg9173]

Qaeta So people getting a game that wasn’t to their expectations is a worse fate then actually dying? Sure let’s all keep having a hissy fit about an annoyance because that’ll solve the problem

[@sciverzero8197]

I'm so glad you finally covered this specific topic... I've had to try explaining this to people so many times and they've rejected it simply because (I assume) I wasn't speaking 'their language.' This is a much easier to follow explanation, with visual representation!

[@vampman87]

I love the "It was Wapole" sign you put in the "buried data" illustration. I just watched your "Extra History" video on the guy and I thought it was HILARIOUS!

[@kingslime]

The big decision makers never seem to realize that sales responses is generally delayed by at least one or two titles, and not always just within a dev studio or franchise. With their quarterly profit obsessions, it seems publishers have little to no sense of legacy.

[@mushroomdude123]

Exactly. A disappointing game will still sell well if what cane before it was good.

[@luisoncpp]

Also the converse holds up: if a good game is a sequel to a disappointing one, it's likely that the good one is going to sell less.

[@rmsgrey]

This also applies to non-video game examples - Justice League's box office performance (particularly at opening weekend) reflects the general movie-going public's opinion of the movie to which it's a direct sequel (and also the fact it's not a game-changing masterpiece, and had a production history that pretty much guaranteed it was going to be flawed) rather than the fact it's a perfectly fine movie. The other point to bear in mind, of course, is that you can see a lot of management turnover. For someone who's only at Major!Publisher to get a few years management experience before moving on to Global!Corporation, the performance of the sequel in 2-3 years is a lot less important than to the developers, the players, and anyone else who's likely to be involved with the franchise at that point...

[@javiercs006]

Of course not, by the time the legacy bites the publisher in the ass, those responsible will have moved on.

[@latoshi3671]

Let's make a test: Who would you trust more? A) me, a strenger from the internet, taking care of your house; B) EA selling you a game.

[@SebastianHaban]

Il Toshi Here are the keys....

[@shimonkarpesh22]

Il Toshi my neighbor

[@teriinekoyama1369]

C) Neither, as you trust no one.

[@latoshi3671]

ashley you're right, some of it is good, but it doesn't last long And if it's really good cough Titanfall 2 cough they shut down their developer team cough Visceral Games cough

[@laurencefraser]

EA's trust value is 0 (or negative, depending on scale), random stranger's trust value is null. No data. Comparison doesn't quite work without extra assumption. The intended point is completely valid though.

[@JoelJames2]

"It was Walpole" Proof that EC exists in an extended universe

[@TheMewtata]

I feel like the only big company I "trust" is Nintendo. My perception boils down to: sure they make mistakes, but they're usually creative process mistakes, not cash-grab mistakes. These days I mostly play indie games though. Hey, nice thing about so many same-y triple A games is that it's kind to my wallet.

[@jeromealday614]

Too bad they're slowly dipping their ips to mobile space

[@freedomtheplayer4235]

Then what about switch online? It's a garbage service that's there just to take your money

[@mykaruest6257]

@moist man I'm falling out of love with gaming since getting what you pay for is now something that's a benefit.

[@aspenpawarts9333]

Freedom The Player the online service sucks, but theirs also legacy games so overall it’s a bit of a steal, especially if you use a family plan

[@aurendess]

Well, well, well. This aged poorly (limited-time releases, Joy-Con drift, shutting down Melee and Splatoon tournaments, etc.).

[@myths_and_Legend]

I'd love a Hecknomancer t-shirt.

[@ahandsomefridge]

I'm craving for some Heck Snake underwear

[@extrahistory]

There is one! store.dftba.com/products/hecknomancer-shirt-limited-edition-shirt-uni-curved-fits

[@DrMakak]

That's some nice marketing planning skills you've got there :D

[@voldlifilm]

Smooth!

[@ahandsomefridge]

Gotta be honest: that shirt is awesome!

[@connorgriffin3609]

Wait, yes please, can we do that company survey thing? Like, could you guys throw up a survey on companies people trust on your website or something? Because that would be some very interesting info to have.

[@ConnorGardner]

So weird seeing you guys on KZbin Rewind. Been watching your videos and livestreams for so long, it's great you guys are finally getting up there! You guys are awesome!

[@AeonHero64]

Wow... how do you always have the best outro music? I’ve heard Hopes and Dreams and the Chao garden theme back to back... it’s so good! Great video too.

[@showcase0525]

Those angry faces in mass are scary.

[@HalcyonSerenade]

It's hilarious to me that people still think sales numbers are indicative of anything deeper than marketing hype. Only long-term sales numbers will tell you anything about how much people really enjoyed things--the kind of long-term numbers that the video game industry is only now beginning to be old enough to even have. Even then, you _still_ have to be careful about how you interpret the data, and there are still more reliable ways to assess the health of a game.

[@aoifemcandless-davis226]

Yep. It's almost as if purchasing games occurs before playing them.

[@exumbra1399]

(・ω・)b Prime Satire here.

[@cherimiss7983]

I'm assuming you live outside of the US. For good or bad live in a capitalist society here, and without getting too political recent events have made people start worshiping capitalism more then ever. You start hearing people talk about 'the market' less in terms of numbers and scales are more like a religion or cult where the only thing that matters is the short term gains from the almighty dollar. Everything is so tumultuous that idea like long term growth or even health are thrown out the window because just like stocks as soon as the market starts to dip you take the money an run to the next investment for quick but high short term gains. Consequences or people be damned.

[@Bruno-ec8ft]

Start? I mean where have you been since the 80's the ''free market'' is the most powerful religion in the US. Since it's Pope Milton Friedman spread the good news to his disciple Tatcher, Reagan and Pinochet. From it's holy church in Chicago, the Neo-liberals have made humanity live for the market and it's benevolent invisible hand. Yield before the dogma of the one true market and beware of the non believers. Those social ''scientist'' who dare question the good word of the IMF and the heretic of the true science of economic who have deviated from The fate. Fear those that ask for sharing for they are against the MARKET. Only the numbers on the Holy Stock tell the TRUTH and judge us all by our marketability. The hard workers are raised while the poor are cast down for their LAZINESS. All of us only individuals before the MARKET. SO REPENT TO THE ONE TRUE MARKET AND CONSUME! CONSUME! HAS MUCH HAS YOU CAN! FOR THE MARKET IS RIGHTEOUS AND HE SHALL RECOGNIZE IT'S PEOPLE WHEN THE TIME COME! Amen.

[@dragonhold4]

Rather than "Long-term Sales" we should look at the Rate of Sales. ->Are sales rapidly being made only around launch? ->Are sales rapidly decreasing after initial noteworthy reviews? Looking at the rate can further help to pinpoint correlated events.

[@JakMarshall]

Thanks for being perhaps the only popular gaming channel that talks about ideas in games data science. There's a lot of us doing this work, but we don't get a lot of column inches. I will be thinking more about soft data from now on, and it's because this show talked about it

[@SyThiCProductions]

congrats on being on youtube rewind. its not the best thing, but it was really cool seeing ur characters animated and, all in all, seeing this channel grow into so much

[@Visteus]

*glances at Bungie for Destiny 2* *glares at EA for Battlefront II* Yup, my trust in AAA developers especially is pretty much gone. Little bit more mad with Bungie/Activision honestly, as I expected EA to fuck up again. Putting all the best looking gear behind a paywall rather than as an incentive for actually PLAYING THE GAME with the newest "expansion" *cough* ittook2hours *cough* has made me really just want to uninstall Destiny 2 and never touch it again. I love the world (the story... not so much), music, artistic direction, but they're rebuilding Destiny 1 but with less incentive to play their game

[@travisbewley7084]

Did you even play Destiny 1? I feel like everyone seemed to have played a diffrent Destiny 1 then I did. It's a 20 expansion. Even the Taken King, a 40 expansion, had a campaign you could complete in 4 hours. In overall value this is the best 20 expansion they have released yet, with brand new worlds and assets for the campaign rather then repurposed stages. All previous expansion had cut players off from max level and in some way the end game. It was basically like an mmo subscription but rather then a monthly charge you just had to keep up on expansions. Im super pleased with D2 for my part and will continue to buy the games because i find a ton of value in them and find the micro transaction to be super unintrusive to the point to where i wonder why people even buy them

[@kindoflame]

2:13-2:27 This is literally part of the job description of statisticians. When most people are happy when they see rising sales, a statistician would say, 'could this be better'. They would question what correlation there is between review scores and sales, when factors such as advertising and brand loyalty are accounted for. This is these people's jobs! If your hiring the best graphic designers, the best programmers, the best advertisers, why would you leave this one huge section of your company out to dry?

[@vidard9863]

kindoflame because that is what marketing is doing right? I mean that is what we are paying them for, they aren't just telling us to put what they think will sell into the game right? They actually did the research right?... Wait don't tell me that marketing's statistics is only put out to protect marketing!?

[@Shrooblord]

It's actually a great asset to have a true statistician in your company for various reasons, if only for what you mentioned. But in fact, their grounded "but what does it _mean_ and how could it be better?" approach will improve your product, and even the way you treat every-day problems.

[@DexterNewton32]

True. Learned a lot about that in my psychology studies. Most things are quantifiable. They aren't all reliable and valid to the same degree, but most surveys and research - if done right - are representative of the overall population.

[@sponge1234ify]

If they don't care to even hire decent customer service persons then why would they bother to hire someone as remotely useful as statisticians?

[@ReziahT]

Because then their whole job would boil down to "This part of the company should be fired because they're bad at their job"

[@epicgorkdirkmork6278]

You guys don’t even know how exited I was when I found Extra Credits in KZbin rewind

[@mdude186]

Please rate your trust in EA on a scale from 1 (no trust) to 5 (max trust). My reply: -∞ (negative infinity)

[@TheOneLichemperor]

The thing is, I'm not even sure whether you're trying to make a joke or not....

[@takebacktheholyland9306]

True

[@maladroit5581]

Why just stop there? Go beyond, PLUS ULTRA!

[@CavCave]

"How to Count Past Negative Infinity"

[@Thestin]

@@maladroit5581 MINUS ULTRA

[@loonloon9365]

This video has a lot of HECKING SNEKS in it.

[@gulfgiggleanimations4472]

*danger noodles

[@mayathomas8934]

Nope rope

[@pcachu]

"Enough is ENOUGH! I have HAD IT with these mother-hecking SNAKES in this mother-hecking GAME!"

[@whydoievenbothertoputthish2199]

Heck the Snek fiddled with the Shaq but then broke his Neck while on his way to a Snek to get away from all the Kek Okay im done xD

[@gameXylinder]

4:38 actually made me laugh out loud. You guys make great content, at my university they actually link to your content as the “literature” for the game development courses. I’ve been following you guys for quite a while and was really happy when I saw that. And despite what people say about it, I was also happily surprised to see you in the latest KZbin rewind. Congratulations, and well done!

[@nockmonkey]

Your ending song gave me a huge nostalgia boost.

[@HornedRabbit]

What a topical video~ Also it was amazing seeing you guy appear in the youtube rewind video!

[@oboretaiwritingch.2077]

Funnily I think you can apply this to movies just as easily(Michael Bay films, DCEU films, etc). Then poof! There goes the argument of "it made money, therefore you are wrong to hate this movie!".

[@ahandsomefridge]

The amount of Heck Snake exposure in this video is out of control. I love it

[@joshf2170]

Wow, that picture at 2:34 could have been really dark; good thing that beach ball was added there!

[@cardboardtenshi1008]

Congratulations on making it to KZbin Rewind!

[@TheNN]

So in other words, companies basically need to stop focusing on keeping stockholders happy in the short term each quarter and maybe, just maybe, play a longer game for once to keep their actual customers pleased?

[@chrisossu2070]

Problem is the stockholders basically puppet the companies' upper management. If the stockholders don't get any short term gains, then they pull their support from the companies, which will make it much harder for the companies to sustain themselves. The stockholders are the root of many problems by virtue of being rich idiots with the attention span of goldfish and an inflated sense of entitlement.

[@Darca1n]

And/or the stockholders need to realize somewhat slower short-term profits can mean a pretty much constant rise in profit overall.

[@Bruno-ec8ft]

That would go against the philosophy of capitalism has we know today. They don't go for long term. The rapid short gain even if it's to sacrifice longer gains is just how the stock market work. Same reason some investors are ok with sacrificing the future of our species for a bigger number.

[@LilianTheNinkasi]

Hey congrats on making it to the YT rewind this year! It was nice to see one of my favourite channels on it this time, not some Vloggers :D

[@MrThewooter]

This felt allot better, less jaded and "heck" even a bit rebellious. Thank you for a video putting into words this kind of scale.

[@TheCasualSubculturist]

this episode is even more spot on an year after this video

[@MoodyBlues2077]

This is Fallout 4 in a nutshell. Sold like crazy, but nowadays everyone's down on it.

[@TheHiddenMadHatter]

RetroThe GameBro The mechanics didn’t feel like fallout, and there was kinda the removal of being a bad guy through dialogue. I believe that those issues along with some other minor details made people unhappy with the game. On its own merits though it was a exceptional game, and was quite enjoyable.

[@kiralybagoly2716]

RetroThe GameBro Bethesda isnt the most trust worthy company in the gaming industry but i remember when they showed gampley at E3 they showed it with real ingame gameplay they didnt hide the fact that the thing has dated visuals (but the moding comunity of course is huge so why even bother) simply put Fallout 4 has been played to death its an openworld game with a finite amount of quests and stuff to do i have about 400 hours in the game(i know its not a lot) and i cant play anymore with it it gets boring(and back to the trustworthines of Bethesda im sorry that i skipped the payd mods debacle)

[@DragonMaiden77]

People hate Fallout 4 because it’s popular to hate it. Despite the fact it’s actually a good game and a lot of people actually like it, people keep recycling the outrage over it because that’s how KZbinrs make money and views. Point out the same flaws we all saw at day one and get the fanboys foaming. It’s a simple formula but it works 100%. Not to mention you get kicked out of places like r/Fallout if you say you like Fallout 4, so yeah, the toxic Fallout fans are the only ones who think it’s a bad game.

[@ahandsomefridge]

Limited dialogue options with hardly any consequences whatsoever, distracting and redundant base building mechanics and unimaginative repetitive endless quests aside I thought it was a nice game. But New Vegas it will never be, sadly enough.

[@SarahAndreaRoycesChannel]

Really? Just went over to steam. Currently more than 20k playing. When it comes to Fallout 4 there are two types of players. Those that love it for what it is and those that damn it because it is not New Vegas. Also common among the later is to say it lacks in roleplaying. Well, the most recent and most critically acclaimed cRPG, Divinity Original Sin 2, clocks in at under 10000. I guess you fell victim to either an echochamber or the sheer volume of the "Not New Vegas!" crowd.

[@Artista_Frustrado]

yep that's Sonic Team alright, yep that's totally EAtransactions now we need a Side Quest on Hecknomancer

[@deathstrike]

We apologize, but due to the recent acquisition of the Hecknomancer franchise by EA Games, the side quest you have requested is no longer available. However for the low low price of $69.99 USD, the newly bundled Hecknomancer I/II DLC will include not one but TWO new exciting side quests!!!(collecting dryer lint and observing paint cracks) So preorder right away, and don't miss out on our free Origin video!!!

[@arandomguy8619]

3:06 his face is amazing

[@connorl9896]

Your face at 3:08 had me dieing

[@thackeryscroggins9947]

“Think of a game that crammed micro transactions I’m sure you can think of one” *cough* ea *cough*

[@CodenameWaffles]

*insert side jab at hi-rez here*

[@BraUnY74]

But I also think they mentioned Shadow of War for a reason

[@Zorixas]

Thackery Scroggins Well they said to think of a game, not a publisher. Funny enough, when he asked that question, I thought of FIFA and Team Fortress 2 before Star Wars Battlefront 2.

[@thackeryscroggins9947]

Zorixas fair enough I’ve also been following up on Star Wars for the past couple of days so my mind automatically went there good on you for thinking differently

[@blazingembermane1870]

Payday 2 comes to mind

[@gilnussbaum1701]

about a year later and only now I see this video. it actually foreshadowed how 2018 looked in so many ways: fallout 76, blizzard and the diablo immortal, EA and so many more big events that sort of rocked how the industry looked. amazing video, amazing channel and I would love to get more content from you guys

[@slorvidask5867]

Congratz for being in Rewind. Yours where the best part of it :)

[@carldibble7283]

No offense but if I pay $60 plus for a game I don't want to pay for microtransactions if I'm getting a free game on a phone I don't care if I have to pay for microtransactions but if I have already paid $60 I want the full game I'm paying a lot of money I want the full experience and not just part of it

[@carldibble7283]

And honestly I've quit buying a lot of brand new games because of microtransactions when I pay $60 I want the full story in The Full Experience not just chopped up little piece of it

[@stevethepocket]

+Stratelier Pretty much. Any game that sells in-game items for real money is probably going to be designed to make playing the game without those items miserable. If I wanted to be miserable, I can do it without wasting money or time on video games.

[@ilikeceral3]

Carl Dibble yeah any game above $40 for me needs to justify its price tag pretty hard before I’ll touch it.

[@Taeerom]

This is true for most single player games. Games that do not need to be kept up to date, have servers to pay for and a constant stream of more content. Games that will continue development and have multiplayer servers need to also have a continued monetization. The up front price you pay for a game is for the initial development and release version of the game, but it doesn't pay for servers and new content years in the future. Games like Overwatch, Rainbow Six: Siege, Payday 2 or CS:GO need to have some sort of monetization off of players that already bought the game. There is no "full story" that is chopped into pieces, the stories are what happens between the players when they play together. And to get them to have more fun and keep a large enough playerbase, you need to release new content. That content is not free to develop. And the servers the players play on are not free.

[@phoenixomega3641]

the continued development should make sense though. no one should have to pay something like $10 for a re-skin of a gun. the only time something should cost that much should be an expansion of story or a group of extra maps.

[@Blizzic]

How timely. *cough bf2 cough cough *

[@SynMonger]

What does Battlefield 2 have to do with this?

[@rcookie5128]

@SynMonger thought of bf2 as "Battlefield 2", too, but I guess bf2 = (StarWars) BattleFront2 nowadays..

[@LordDragon1965]

Or Sonic or Mario or ... or ... or ... etc.

[@diegoantoniorosariopalomin4977]

Blizzic and now Destiny is being updated to remove content ( you heard that right

[@diegoantoniorosariopalomin4977]

For it to be part of dlc

[@secretlyditto7716]

You guys were in the KZbin rewind! congratulations!!! It kind of sucks that you were only in the credits, but still!

[@anthonynorman7545]

I love y'all so much for this video! You critiqued so many companies in such a thoughtful and respectful manner

[@yumfries5613]

EVERYONE Extra Credits made it in the KZbin Rewind at 5:39! This makes me so happy to see these wonderful hard working people get this recognition.

[@RyanEdwardsVA]

Great video. Man, I hit that point of no trust/no buy with EA long time ago... I was huge, HUGE into the original Battlefront games, but when the new ones came out, I literally never even considered buying them once I learned who was behind it. And that change would be hard to track with hard data, like you say, but in the end, over time EA has created a consumer that will actively avoid anything with their seal if possible. I'm sure others have had a similar experience.

[@Arkylie]

The Sims is an EA product, right? I have mixed feelings about their price points. On the one hand, I can get them for 75% off on Steam sales, which are pretty frequent for Sims 3 at least. On the other hand, why is an assortment of clothing from a couple time periods just as expensive as the base game? And why is it also just as expensive to get seasons, or pets, or supernatural creatures? If you buy 100% of just the gameplay expansions, a $20 game becomes a couple of hundred dollars -- and even with the 75% off, I could hit over $50 on expansions alone. And then there's the items you can buy in the Sims 3 store. Setting aside the technical difficulties I've had even logging in (I'm currently on a long hiatus from trying to get this problem solved; it's kind of a relief to not be looking at their site regularly trying to keep up with sales), I wouldn't be buying anything in the store -- except that they use one of my favorite techniques for players with low gaming budgets: direct ad revenue. I watch an ad, I earn points, I spend the points in the store, almost same as cash. Except that there are whole sets of items that aren't buyable through points; you need to buy them directly with cash. That always makes me feel like the company's being elitist, setting aside pieces that are too good for the rabble like me. And the price point for the items is fairly high. Why should buying a few dozen pieces of virtual clothing come anywhere close to the price of an actual piece of clothing? (I've played one game -- well, the short-lived fanmade version, at least -- where the price to upgrade a recipe for your restaurant, just one level, was more than the amount I'd spend going to an actual restaurant and buying the same dish. Upgrading it the full ten levels could easily have been $100. It's insane.) I understand that a lot of effort goes into making these cool items, but the profit on that effort is spread out across the many purchases; you can only sell a dress once, but you can sell a virtual dress hundreds of times with no additional effort or cost. Making me carefully watch my budget while buying virtual clothes is the opposite of how this ought to work -- I ought to feel like I got a lot of worth for my money, a lot of new content for my game if I spent even $5 or even $2 that day. Then I'd get bored and happily come back to spend another $2 or $5 or $8 because it felt like I was getting an awful lot. Right now it feels like there's a huge set of items I want, and buying them with real money would be an insane amount, so there was zero chance of me spending even a single real dime for them (though getting them slowly through ad revenue felt like victory nonetheless).

[@rebeccaair751]

me too

[@Todd-vy7iz]

Your videos are gold Whatever advices or way to analyze a problem or a good game can be applied to other aspects of life in my opinion, I feel like it's helping me shape my way of navigating in this world and considering things, thanks a lot for your hard work !

[@razmeanie4519]

The art in this one really stood out to me. Some of the facial expressions really made me smile.

[@EmperorSmith]

The purest example of "Trust" that I can think of is Dwarf Fortress. Arguably one of the most complex and detailed games ever made - and they give it away for free. I've had so much enjoyment from playing that game that every couple of months I'll throw the dev another $20 or so. I've probably paid more for Dwarf Fortress than any other game over the long term - and hey - No Microtransactions, No DLC, No Silver/Gold/Platinum editions - How did the dev "trick me" into paying for a game multiple times when I didn't "need" to. The openness of the dev with the direction of the game and the consistent and game changing updates that add even more complexity to an already absurdly complex game, is why I will not hesitate to throw them another $20 when ever the mood takes me. I can't think of any other game where I'd have this attitude - the dev has EARNED my loyalty and I will reward them for it.

[@sorcdk2880]

I would also put the developers of Factorio on that list. It may not have been free, but they have added so much free content that it works out the same. Technically it might be because of the really long early acces, but it feels like the game was self-sufficient years ago anyway (I for one didnt expect them to include multiplayer, and that well too).

[@Coryn02]

I really like how Dwarf Fortress' developer has managed to carve a path for his game's success, but I just wish I could get past the difficult controls to enjoy it. EC has mentioned in a previous video that it's stopped from being the worldwide success by all rights it should be by poor controls, and I think that lays out my viewpoint pretty well. But I digress, you're totally right. I've done this for League of Legends and Dota 2 as well; by giving me something I love without making me resent the path towards it, I've thrown tons of money at a game I play way too much compared to others I bought and never touched again.

[@Arkylie]

I did this with Kingdom of Loathing. At first, for a couple years, I was a freebie player. Then, realizing that the game wasn't going to throw me away just for losing interest for six months (as many other online games had), I felt like it was a security blanket I could keep coming back to. Somewhere in there, I looked at the items you could buy with out-game money ($10 buys a Mr. Accessory, trade the Mr. A for a piece of content only buyable for a month but generally tradable forever after), found out that I could trade in-game money (meat) for Mr. A's in the player-run market, bought a few Mr. A's (at a few million meat apiece) and outfitted my characters with some neat pieces of content... and then, some months later, started paying $10 or $20 every month or two, getting whatever looked neat. The devs earned my trust by having a game where I could play 100% of the content without every paying a dime -- if I was willing to invest the time to get the in-game money, and if I was content to have to choose some portion of the Mr. A content, because it was impossible to grind enough money to enjoy it all. But I could have any part of it that I wanted, and it was augments to the game, not locked-off portions of the gaming world. Even later pieces that introduced whole areas open only to those with the correct item, that felt like a bonus, not a club for players with pocketbooks. And in contrast to, say, Puzzle Pirates, or GunBound, the money I spent was at a small, reasonable amount and bought something permanent. My item wasn't going to break or fade away, as clothing and badges do in Puzzle Pirates, and I wasn't forced to stick with the most basic setup (GunBound, last I played a session, has hugely inflated prices to even rent an outfit piece for a week, and many items are ONLY available via out-game money; trying to buy an item for keeps using in-game winnings would take forever, and that's just one item, not even a full outfit). I feel good about the money I've spent on Kingdom of Loathing -- somewhere close to $100, way more than I've ever spent on any game that wasn't World of Warcraft. And I know that until the game itself dies (which I hope won't happen soon), my stuff will still be there. It's comforting.

[@EmperorSmith]

Oh yeah - the controls and interface are horrendous. But you get used to them - eventually, you might learn to even love them. I had to watch about ten 45 minute videos just to learn "The Basics" (Dastactics tutorial series)...but I'm glad I made the time investment. I initially started out using the "Lazy Noob Pack" which makes everything that little bit more accessible - but now I play it vanilla, no graphics packs, no mods - and I don't even see the ASCII graphics anymore - it's like the Matrix - you eventually stop seeing the code - you see a Blonde, A Brunette etc. But then, if tedious and meticulous book-keeping of Every. Single. Aspect of your Dwarves lives doesn't sound appealing, then you'll probably bounce of it.

[@Coryn02]

EmperorSmith I guess I might give it a try once again, if only for your vouching. But I better do my homework first.

[@trygveplaustrum4634]

3:07 *THAT FACE THO!*

[@kaspermarthinsenbjerg138]

Oh yes!

[@aaronimp4966]

That Sonic photo at 2:39 breaks my heart. I miss you, well-made Sonic games. 😞

[@animusnocturnus7131]

Thank you for phrasing so eloquently what I was trying to say since 1999.

[@joc6344]

The song at the end... Oooh the nostalgia!

[@christianbuffum-robbins8904]

2:33 WALPOLE

[@brunofenner1178]

Beachball to lighten the mood

[@ThatFanBoyGuy]

I just started watching Extra Credits again after a long hiatus a few weeks ago. Since I couldn't remember where I left out, I just started from the beginning. Now I'm finally caught up to the current month! Woohoo! :)

[@cocoacoconuts24]

Irrelevant comment, but FANTASTIC job with KZbin Rewind, EC! That animation was my favorite part of the video! :D

[@GeoPol01]

CONGRATS ON GETTING ON KZbin REWIND, great to see you and the other animation channels getting recognized!

[@IglooLifeForever]

It would be interesting if someone got a monthly/trimonthly survey going and managed to get it large enough that the number of people chiming in each time gave a visible chart of how trustworthy a company is. Heck like you suggested imagine if it did get large enough that big companies took notice in the dops of it and what not.

[@Craul08]

Who the fuck would vote for the Emoji Movie over Mad Max? Some people just wanna watch the world burn. Well then they should watch Mad Max.

[@Zwiebel4]

To quote Yahtzee Croshaw when he was reviewing "Ride To Hell: Retribution": "We should all buy this game just to fuck with marketing heads".

[@nitez2730]

I would

[@pokexchespin012302]

Jacksfilms

[@thehorseofwar8115]

1:42 Sugar for Breakfast! My favorite!

[@missadixon3771]

Great way to cover the HUGE issue going on right now without calling names. But I REALLY wish you'd call names (however, I understand that concept is NOT what this channel is about and everyone else in the game-verse has called names.) Great work.

[@ViolenceCity]

EA is all out of trust on the Friendship Meter.

[@DarrylCross]

Not only are they out of trust, they've been stuck in trust overdraft for near a decade.

[@Brass_Heathen]

"EA this is the circle of trust" "This is you" *Points outside the circle* -Mr. Focker

[@YingofDarkness]

It doesn't matter as long as people keep buying their games. The whole reason this keeps happening is because people just gripe about things and then buy them. There are some things that you can gripe about a game and then get over (fanservice, plot, maybe some gameplay elements) but the stuff the game industry is pulling right now is not one of them.

[@DarkOmegaMK2]

@YingofDarkness It's one of those cases of "there's no such thing as bad publicity"

[@mics361]

I can't express how valuable this content is.

[@tanikaclarkson6894]

This is a really informative video, I can think of a way that a company lost my trust with a series a few years back. I loved playing The Sims 3, but decided not to buy The Sims 4 for a long time. It just didn't have what I wanted in it, and I didn't trust they'd eventually fix it. Once they did, I brought the game. It took a few years though. It makes me wonder how much of a dip in profits and players not transferring over to the new series affected their decisions in that regard.

[@nealdolphin]

Bungie is definitely skirting the line with player trust with the Destiny series. They just keep not listening to their player base or learning from past mistakes.

[@talentlessartist7929]

Niall Townley I was a big fan of bungie during the Halo era. They lost me whit Destiny and how of mess it was. And how they kicked out their long time fans of their forums unless they bought destiny

[@Sirgreen57]

After playing all of Destiny 1 and it's expansions as they came out, I held off on D2 until it matured a bit, and now am so distanced from the franchise that I don't have enough interest left to go back. I think D1's lack of features that I had grown to expect from their Halo games and the lack of meaningful content in their expansions has really soured my perception of them.

[@tenebrisscarrow3140]

Hecknomancer: 2D platformer where you play as a sarcastic snake with 'Heck' as its catchphrase. You can collect various power-ups like Wyvern (Get wings for short range flight) and Gorgon (Line of slight blast of slowness and damage, if enemy dies; leaves statue of them). Alternatively it could be a 3D RPG where you start of as Heck Snake and can evolve into different types of dragon. Wyvern for aerial dexterity and speed but low health and damage. Wyrm has a limited range of motion but can swim really well and has a great melee moveset. Dragon is what you'd expect, slower flight but very high damage output. Drake is like dragon but you sacrifice flight for better melee damage and monuverablity on the ground. Gorgon allows you to have a humanoid character and all of that's advantages as well as a line of slight blast like I described in the platformer version.

[@RumBuDum]

This is applicable to every company and industry in existence, well said, great job!

[@pehmomarsu]

Nice seeing that you included (Finnish) Fiskars rulers (6:34) to the episode that was broadcast on the 100th anniversary of the Finnish independence day. :)

[@haiperbus]

just don't preorder games, wait till reviews and let's plays

[@hauntedshadowslegacy2826]

Ah, but don't just wait for the reviews... Wait a month or so AFTER the reviews to see if the devs are tryna pull a fast one on everybody. Or just wait until the sales quarter is up; that way, investors might not like the numbers they see.

[@masterhutchgaming1566]

I mean, logically that sounds great BUT if everyone followed that advice then nobody would ever get the game due to nobody having the game to do a let's play or anything else of the such

[@timothyhayes9724]

Hey guys I just thought I'd say how much I appreciate how inclusive your drawings/animations are. They make me smile seeing so many people represented in your videos.

[@danielyahalom3961]

And they also do a good job of not feeling forced in. Kudos to EC!

[@danielsjohnson]

What made me realize they were intentionally doing that was when they showed a girl wearing a hijab. Good job, Extra Credits. I generally don't notice stuff like that for the same reason as @LoZ Collector.

[@aspenpawarts9333]

Oh this did not age well... visuals are better but lost ALL of their charm, and the new narrator IMO is trash, on top of how stupid their new vids and arguments are, and how they’re so dumbed down, and they even lost the squeaky voices in exchange for a frankly awful new narrator. Extra Credits is horrible now.

[@woodhorder9692]

Congrats on KZbin rewind!!

[@officepony6717]

Well now, I haven't seen this issue raised in such a clear and well-presented matter before. This should be something all industries do, and I've seen some industries do similar surveys in order to keep track of franchises and independent off-shoots of companies. This is mainly prevalent in service industries that have constant interactions with their customer base. Please keep up the awesome content :D