Bad Writing - Why Most Games Tell Bad Stories - Extra Credits

Why is the writing in games so terrible? To find the answer, we have to look at narrative as a whole: everything from level design to art style contributes to create the story of a game, but too often writers are left out of this process and forced to play paramedic to a faltering storyline.
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(Original air date: July 28, 2010)
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[@Vhailor_Mithras]

"Nobody wants to read a huge block of text in a game." *Immediately pauses to read*

[@4552571d]

Same

[@Supahdave1000]

+Vhailor Mithras I admit... I read it and immediately recognized it. I am shamed.

[@ningamer1314]

Metroid Prime? Kirby?

[@candy-ninja]

Same.

[@araknidude]

lol this is not a game

[@Ironbat92]

We never did get that voice acting episode......

[@bobbylemke8353]

+Joseph Ocasio 4 years later =[

[@timothymclean]

+Joseph Ocasio I'm guessing they're still having trouble finding voice actors to talk to about it?

[@wishmaker7863]

+Timothy McLean I guess. I really hope they didn't just forget about it.

[@wishmaker7863]

***** I'm getting tempted to email James about it.

[@inactiveaccount9253]

Still waiting...

[@bobbluered8984]

Holy Crap- is this the first episode of ExtraCredits?

[@dragaoperneta]

Bob Bluered yeah! right? It was reeeeeeeeally hard to watch, i had to force myself to pay attention the whole video

[@Xx_L1v1ng_H3L_xX]

Bob Bluered didnt extra credits start before game theory

[@melledevries4685]

Bob Bluered Dan did a series much like this on his personal channel for a while before Extra Credits became a thing, so yes and no.

[@waves5651]

+Neko the Geek Actually EC inspired game theory

[@Gilhelmi]

Before Penny Arcade and KZbin, they were on the Escapist. So this episode was made before their channel by a couple years.

[@vidril6440]

11 years later and I still vividly remember all of these videos. I remember in school, spending literal weeks straight watching the playlist of Extra Credits without pausing except to go to the bathroom. The amount of advice and information within these videos enticed my child mind completely and I attribute a lot of my views and practices for game development to Extra Credits. An honest thank you to everyone who worked on these videos to give me invaluable insight for over half a decade. I may have long moved on from this channel's content, but I certainly have not forgotten how great it used to be

[@overratedprogrammer]

"10 minutes of dialogue in one hour of gameplay" Kojima: hold my movie endings

[@abovethelaw4417]

Kojima sucks

[@RobertEdwinHouse9]

@@abovethelaw4417 lol

[@alexanderthegrrrreat6727]

@@abovethelaw4417 well, that's like, uh, your opinion, man

[@Cappuccino_Rabbit]

Metal gear solid 4 literally having 21 minutes of a single cutscene And 4+ hours of a whole sequence

[@zebruh2794]

@@abovethelaw4417 just like your mum

[@ES21007]

"Plot contradicts gameplay..." Almost every JRPG. So your character can summon demons and angels, reshape entire landscapes and slice a million objects into a billion pieces... But we can't get out of a fucking jail cell? NOPE.

[@ZenZeron3]

I don't think xenoblade really has this issue though. I know you said "almost", but just wanted to point out an exception.

[@Nikke-nn5mn]

"In most jrbg story and gameplay are separated buy a fence, made out of tigers." -zero punctuation

[@Mysticsloth]

power levels in JRPGs aren't to be taken seriously but only for eyecandy and amusement. not being able to escape from a prison cell teaches players that not all problems can be solved by raw physical power. it's all about the philosophy.

[@joecleary7387]

Mysticsloth Not being able to escape from a cell teaches players a lesson? Give them so much credit, why don't you. It is for story reasons and no more. The disconnect between story and combat is there, and not excused because they "aren't meant to be taken seriously"

[@Mysticsloth]

Joe Cleary Well, not in my books. But to each their own... opinion or whatever. Even though I can't see any credit in yours.

[@spinningninja2]

Is... is this their first video? Have I finally explored every single aspect of this channel? Oh dear god...

[@jahkra9259]

I don't think so, but maybe!

[@General_Nothing]

There's some earlier videos on Daniel Floyd's personal channel.

[@KyletheReflectionist]

Yep. This is their very first!

[@JohnBainbridge0]

It's really strange to me that story is a secondary consideration in this industry. My game ideas usually start with some mechanics, but as soon as I start working on characters - usually the second thing I do - I start working out the story too. That way, I'm working on all parts at once, developing them together as one game, not as parts of a whole. I find it really hard to imagine trying to retroactively add a story to a game that's almost finished. That's like making a suit, then trying to find someone who fits in it, instead of making a suit to fit yourself.

[@JohnBainbridge0]

Note that I'm not saying one person has to do everything - that's just how I roll. But if I was building a design team, first I would build the whole team first, not hire a writer half-way through. I would also put my team in one room if possible, and at least ensure that the team is constantly communicating. I've often found that working on the story will give me ideas for new gameplay elements and vice-versa, which makes the whole game more cohesive.

[@JohnBainbridge0]

Another thing I try to consider when writing is the role of items, upgrades, etc., in the story. It's always nice to get a new upgrade, but if it's just sitting there, with no context, that's all it is - nice to have. But in games like RPGs, you have to quest for your items. Your sword has a name and a back-story. Maybe it has a personality of its own. If the player has to earn that item - if that item means something in that world - then the item will mean more to the player as well.

[@JohnBainbridge0]

Nionivek The type of game certainly makes a difference. Frankly, some fighting games would be better without a convoluted story. (So, Chun Li works for InterPol and Bison has a criminal empire, but who needs guns, right? Let's just punch each other a lot!) Then, of course, there are the 1000+ "save the princess" games like Mario and Zelda, where the premise is the whole plot. That said though, a good story only makes a game better. Binding of Isaac could have been a simple "save your own ass" Zelda rip-off, and it would have still been fun, but the story defined the aesthetic of the game, which is one of its strongest elements.

[@JohnBainbridge0]

Nionivek Okay. Not the best example admittedly, but it's still way more of a story than Mario.

[@WiseSageBum]

Well, given that the first games were made mechanics-first-who in their right minds would tell a story of a sprinting hedgehog or a druggy plumber... though female space marine's a good start-and those people are still active in the industry, it could just be a generational thing.

[@BattlegroundsAlpha]

This video is also known as 'Why Indie Games Have Better Storylines Compared to Most AAA Titles'

[@meghnalekshman4137]

The Dream of Life I was just gonna comment that.

[@yellowx5022]

Very true

[@arocomisgamusclademork1603]

Like Pokemon franchise compare to inexpensive make game produce story.

[@davidjeang5783]

Yup, definitely seeing them not suffering from many of the problems since indie development is more often than not neither time constrained nor writer excluded early on.

[@royplatt455]

@@arocomisgamusclademork1603 Pokemon Mystery Dungeon is the exception to this, I think. As well as Conquest, and a few other ones. They can have quite good stories.

[@shropshirec]

The guys who developed The Order 1886 ignored that last part of the video.

[@unamed1142]

Yeah, all they did was add in a few spoilt mechanics which you can only use occasionally(dodge, sprint, thermite guns), make all of the assets that you ultimately went to and ONLY then did they write a script which was as stale as mouldy bread.

[@danelo13]

+PokeMaster22222 Or they just simply tought they could bring a book to a videogame in their own way.... Witch sucked

[@danelo13]

***** 5 am, cant English, talk later

[@danelo13]

***** Okay.1886 creators thought they could make a game with very little gameplay and compensate with quick time events to know that the player is awake and still paying attention. because by the end it became nothing but a movie with chapters that were a cut-scene themselves and the gameplay and mechanics were basically vanishing as the mechanics didn't got a chance to shine completely for the little gameplay they got.

[@warwatcher91]

+PokeMaster22222 He wasn't being literal about it. He was saying the people who made The Order 1886 ignored the idea behind what Dan was saying, not ignoring the actual video.

[@extrahistory]

We're going to start distributing our back catalog of episodes in more places over the next few months. Penny Arcade TV will still have exclusivity on the newest episodes, but you'll start seeing the classic ones on KZbin, Blip and numerous others. Enjoy!

[@mrhernandezhistorynerd]

Man eleven years and no replies? Bit weird

[@stickstories2750]

@@mrhernandezhistorynerd fr

[@rebirth6516]

​@@mrhernandezhistorynerdikr, an absolute gem of this channels history

[@Selrisitai]

I am not a fan of Final Fantasy X, but the "bad acting" in that particular cut-scene was INTENTIONAL. They were FAKE LAUGHING in the cut-scene and it was SUPPOSED to be terrible. If you watch the remainder of the scene, you see they begin to laugh at their silliness and the voice acting goes back to "bearable". Yeesh.

[@gc6240]

THANK YOU This is my biggest pet peeve as I see people bringing this up as an example of 'bad voice-acting' all the time. Was there bad voice acting in that game? Sure. But that scene has been taken out of context. It's sad.

[@Selrisitai]

Garrett Compton Indeed! Frankly, I never considered the voice acting in Final Fantasy X to be bad whatsoever, but sometimes one must accept a particular premise, even an erroneous one, for the sake of relating to his audience; therefore, I have agreed that the voice acting was "bearable". I wonder if the persons disseminating the false belief that this scene is an example of bad voice acting have ever actually played the game, or if they are only parroting what many have told them.

[@ReaperP13]

Garrett Compton they should just use sonic for terrible voice acting, just awful

[@64UPAllGOD]

ReaperP13 See, but the people writing these scripts cannot FIND THE COMPUTER ROOM.

[@Selrisitai]

64UPAllGOD You lost me. I admit that, although I love video games (although I'm always sorta searching for that game that does that thing that I have always wanted, which I will not explain presently) I am not really into gaming "culture". It strikes me as pedantic, and frivolous; therefore, I have no idea if you are making a reference to, like, Portal, or if you are just being clever and going over my head.

[@andrewgoss7763]

Been watching this channel for over 8 years. Can’t explain the nostalgia I feel watching this video. Thank you for the years of content you’ve provided.

[@ThePCguy17]

They introduced themselves and Alison was new? Good lord this video is old. Still good though.

[@acronmd]

ThePCguy17 I remember alison

[@ThePCguy17]

Yeah, me too. Brings back memories.

[@acronmd]

ThePCguy17 what episode did alison leave I can't find it

[@ThePCguy17]

***** It's been a few years, I forget. I think she went off to college or graduate school or something. It was only briefly mentioned in passing though, and the art style didn't noticeably change, so it'd be hard to find.

[@acronmd]

ThePCguy17 It was Extra Credits: Intrinsic vs Extrinsic posted on March 28th, 2013 Season 6 Episode 6. Dang it's been a long time, it was due to her job and she couldn't balance it so she left, we've been waiting for almost 4 years but she hasn't come back yet. I don't blame her though I just miss having her on the team

[@nathanlink169]

Put the video on x0,5 speed.

[@TheRayny]

+Nathan Pringle now i can' t unheard it

[@fuizipra]

how did that lag me..?

[@RichardBlaziken]

+Nathan Pringle You simultaneously ruined the video and made it the best thing I've heard in a while

[@kaimamoonfury1335]

+Nathan Pringle Lel

[@wu1ming9shi]

+Nathan Pringle Omg i dare you to set it on 0.25x. lol, you'd almost think he had an anourism or something like that. XD

[@jasondeutschbein8102]

Can we address the unnoticed complexity of the laughing scene in FFX? There's actually a reason it's stilted. One other person has mentioned it here, but it happens at a point in the story where the group of adventurers has witnessed the entire destruction of a city and hasn't yet come to terms with it. The entire conversation is indicative of a sub-plot you don't find til later. Yuna asks Tidus to smile on their journey, because forcing that emotion is the only way to move on. She wants to bring happiness to Spira. It isn't til you find that Yuna will sacrifice herself to bring that happiness that Tidus is so upset. That entire moment must have been absurd to everyone else. Tidus was the only one that didn't know what was going to happen. God it drives me crazy when this moment is brought up as a moment of bad voice-acting when its intent was to be hollow. This is definitely one of the better moments of voice acting.

[@andrewcleary9952]

The very best environmental storytelling I have ever seen was in Dark Souls. In Anor Londo, the city of giant god-like beings, there is a cathedral castle thing. Before the entrance lies a staircase. Running in the middle of the staircase is a set of steps for beings about twice the size of humans, while squashed to the sides of the staircase are human-sized stairs. Think about that and all its implications. The devs could have just put Black Iron Tarkus there and made him say "the giants oppressed the humans" but instead they killed Tarkus ( the bastards) and made you examine stairs.

[@hoopshank]

2:20 "the ever popular good or evil bar" is a one-dimensional moral choice meter with positive and negative values, not two-dimensional. I imagine someone else said this already but I'm late to the party.

[@hoopshank]

Ah yes, Aleksi Grön said it a month ago. Well said, sir!

[@SkitHertz]

Irks me that the infamous FFX scene is always the example for bad voice acting. They were forcing themselves to laugh ...

[@ElfinHilon10]

+SkitHertz This literally the entire point. It's literally explained by Yuna. She forces her self to laugh and smile in order to get through all the pain. So what Tidus and Yuna end up doing is forcing the laughter to present real laughter because of how ridiculous it sounds to force yourself to be happy. Instead, take comfort with people around you, and know that your friends are with you.

[@Sir_Sigfried]

THANK YOU. Its not supposed to sound real...

[@kounurasaka5590]

+SkitHertz Not only that, but in universe, the rest of the party is like, "What the hell is wrong with you guys?" And, in a game that has probably 10 hours of cut scenes and voice acting, they point to that one 15 second clip taken out of context. If you watch the entire scene throughout, after they fake laugh, they actually laugh right after it. There are additional scenes in the game where the delivery is off. I love James Arnold Taylor, but when he yells at the rest of the party in Home, his delivery is pretty bad. A bit too melodramatic.

[@thefoxoflaurels3437]

Tara Strong's Rikku I feel is the only main character in that game that consistently was performed excellently. A balance of a lot of personality traits into a nuanced performance. And while FFX isn't as bad as its reputation would claim, a lot of experienced performers sound off or miscast due to off direction and mediocre localization.

[@kounurasaka5590]

That is one thing that irks me. Most of the time the voice actors themselves aren't inept, it is a result of mediocre voice acting due to mediocre voice direction from the development staff, or trying to cut corners and not get good voice actors. I actually thought everyone in FFX did a great job. There were some moments of poor delivery, but the cast didn't receive the best tools to work with, mainly because this was Square's first major foray into voice acting, and they didn't quite anticipate how much work would go into it. Put simply, they didn't provide the American voice cast with the best tools, (like finalized pieces of the game) so the American cast had to imagine what the setting and scenario was most of the time.

[@Michformer]

Show, don't tell.

[@paigel.8015]

Hello fellow Dtoider and Extra Credits viewer!

[@Michformer]

Hey there! Fancy meeting you here!

[@NovaCyn]

+Michformer play, don't show.

[@jackalmuldipuluscabal5288]

+Michformer Play with oneself....don't make war...oh wait wrong Video. My bad

[@smort123]

*laughs in Dark Souls*

[@HuntressCody]

I am so glad the channel hasn't deleted these videos! These are just amazing videos that we can only wish were still made today.

[@SmilefaceManga]

This was Game Theorists Inspiration And i did not know that. Thank you for making this videos

[@tvsonicserbia5140]

Ace Attorney games could never work without great writing!

[@Numb_Knot]

I love Ace Atorney!

[@X1erra]

Ace Attorney is 100% narrative, the mechanics itself is like an integration into the narrative. :)

[@tvsonicserbia5140]

Its impossible 100% because that would be a book,but 90 at least

[@KnakuanaRka]

Yeah, Ace Attorney is something called a visual novel, which is not exactly the same thing as a video game.

[@luigivercotti6410]

@@KnakuanaRka No, a visual novel is just a particular, though admittedly less conventional genre of videogame, like a walking simulator.

[@kawaiisakuras]

The last of us 2...:(

[@abovethelaw4417]

Last of us is always trash

[@Lifetime10154]

@@abovethelaw4417Not the first.

[@ferretprince4054]

come on the laughing in FF10 wasn't that bad. okay it was still pretty cringy but you know the point the scene was trying to make.

[@Pyre]

Given that the entire *point* of that scene was the fake-laughing was *supposed* to sound terrible, yes. They both laugh normally not two minutes after that bit and it's *fine*.

[@ferretprince4054]

Char Aznable ......that's fair.

[@shiftypersona]

Ferret Prince I have to agree. like, hell yes it was cringy but that's the point of the entire scene. he laughed like that 50% on purpose and 50% out of sarcasm. to me, it always did exactly what it was supposed to.

[@BaltaBueno]

People who think the voice actors were terrible in that scene clearly didn't play the game or at least watched the whole cutscene :/

[@gigirose78]

ikr? It was all a misunderstanding or people are just that dumb. It was supposed to be fake and forced.

[@justfrankjustdank2538]

miss 2012 memes in videos (no i dont)

[@Nr4747]

A very good example where Narrative actually works and is done by a novelist is the first Max Payne game. Yes, it's full of pseudo-philosophy, one liners and "mature" content, but it really fits the action-shooter gameplay and the overall story. And the bits describing "Noir York City" are brillant, as they are scattered through ctuscenes, gameplay, artwork, television news, banter of NPCs, TV shows etc.

[@BiscuitHead22]

I wholeheartedly concur.

[@overbleached8180]

Hidetaka miyazaki once said:"the narrative of your game should not be held captive by it's cutscenes","the greatest tool of narrative is the world you create for it to exist in" also he said:"a well designed world could tell it's story in silence".

[@d-m-n]

2:51 that's exactly the plot of "haiyore! nyaruko-san" o.o

[@joseluispcr]

mecanics, caracters, artstile itens scenes texts voices sounds music level design everthing can be used on the narrative. so in a sense game should have a bigger and more profound narrative

[@FernandoSegovia701]

Bigger than what?

[@joseluispcr]

@@FernandoSegovia701 than a movie, book, etc

[@FernandoSegovia701]

@@joseluispcr no, not really. A different writing able to approach consumers in a different way maybe but movies also have almost all of this elements and they don't have the handicap of having to make the aesthetics fun (because a boring game with a great story is still worthless). And books don't have to worry about things like technical limitations so their only limit is their imagination. Don't take me wrong, games are amazing, that's why I work making them, but the fact that games can tell profound stories doesn't mean that it's easier for them than for other media.

[@joseluispcr]

@@FernandoSegovia701 movies have thecnical limitations when they do special effects. the graphics of movies is better, but we have more ways to make a narrative. I did not say its easy to do a game as is to do a movie, of course

[@FernandoSegovia701]

@@joseluispcr yes, but movies do have some of the same resources as games, like the distribution of objects in the space, the shots, and some other things

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

I feel like Kid Icarus Uprising and The Last of Us nailed this. The stories alone were fantastic, but the narrative and dialogue made the characters, environments, and mechanics pure gaming gold

[@carolynfrancis5375]

Ellie is the only thing I personally like about Last Of Us. But hey, to each their own.

[@element1111]

TLoU had a very competent script-writer. Where it fell apart was the actual story and the world building.

[@ellipszilonq]

To be fair, TLoU had a case of ludonarrative dissonance.

[@swadloom40]

The comedy in Kid Icarus Uprising, oh my god I love this game!

[@KnakuanaRka]

Swadloom Yeah, I loved that game!

[@determigaming8688]

Thanks for the idea for Cthulu Dating Simulator.

[@kurm7161]

Yes and some asshole stole the idea

[@ashtoonian9481]

when he still had arms

[@PatFagan]

Still waiting for a voice acting video... maybe some day.

[@HistorysRaven]

"You can't write a movie script the same way you would write a novel..." As someone who writes both stories and scripts for fun, I wish more people would understand this. "Just use the book for the script!!!!1!!" Please, please stop saying this.

[@archeduardo]

Phoenix down heals unconsciousness. It doesn't revive the dead...

[@archeduardo]

***** Maybe because zombies possess no conciousness and by restoring it it causes a paradox destroying the zombie.

[@P13XD]

There's actualy conflicting information as to wether characters are dead or unconscioucs when their hp reaches zero. For example when a move that inflicts death on a charactor is used to "kill" a party member in Bravely Default the "KO" status is displayed. Even with the argument that the character is unconscious there are many scripted scenarios in Final Fantasy Dimensions where characters with zero HP continue to fight. But ultimately if "plot sensitive death" and "gameplay sensitive death" were segregated games that used death as a plot element would either be laughably easy, pr due to the nesecarry implementation of permadeath be excessivly difficult. While a game having extreme difficulty or a lack there of is not inherently bad not all games should need to choose between these two extremes.

[@archeduardo]

Roger Barber IN Final Fantasy Tatics, when a character "has 0 hp, it becomes unconcous/bleeding till death and you have 3 turn to use phoenix down on him/;her before the character dies for sure.

[@X1erra]

In Fire Emblem, when a character dies, that character dies forever. Extra rule being the main characters must not die at all costs or it's game over regardless of the units you have.

[@Isoawesomeibaja]

Roger Barber I think any game where you can cure "death" by spending a night at an inn isn't actual death at all.

[@patrickfrost9405]

"We could make an entire video on voice acting, and we probably will." (3:25) ... Soooooo... Where is it?

[@person59523]

Probably does not mean 100% yes

[@ShiftySetax]

Patrick Frost "Probably Will"

[@MrSuperAJ]

This entire Video unfortunately doesn't explain why Kingdom hearts 3 has one of the worst writing possible, even with all the time and money in the world.

[@bumby4737]

SPEAKING OF BAD WRITING here we are 7 years later

[@suitrBJ]

James Taylor is a fantastic va and that scene in ffx as anybody who has actually played the game would know is done purposefully and fits the context of how characters are feeling. Tidus is literally forcing himself to laugh to show Yuna.

[@jonettheonly]

lol you sound like a South Park character.

[@twinkiesmaster69]

Jonét ジョネー ,it's sped-up His real voice is different (you can hear it in this game play channel)

[@seireiart]

Ace Attorney and Danganronpa have a good story along with a good gameplay

[@ceon4499]

probably because its more of a dialogue based game then others.

[@masterxehanort3]

Danganronpa has a very good story, but its gameplay its kinda cringey for what it tres to do. It tries too hard not to be an ace attorney clone, but doesn't really have a suitable replacement.

[@seireiart]

For me, I really enjoyed the gameplay so much, they balanced that well with the story telling It's just my opinion

[@masterxehanort3]

SeireiART Huh, maybe it is just my opinion, then.

[@joshcastro3130]

Was this sopost to be a video game Chanel

[@ItsRainy13]

What happened to you guys this is so nostalgic

[@NecxZhor9]

Weird. I always thought that It was a rule in Final Fantasy that dying in combat just meant your characters were unconscious as a way to skirt around the disconnect between story and gameplay.

[@deathfire12]

It is, goes to show how much research they put into this >.>

[@NecxZhor9]

Desufire Yea, I've gone on length about how erroneous their critiques of New Vegas are, and how delusional their belief in F3's strengths is.

[@DarthRadical]

I miss early Extra Credits.

[@MaurycyZarzycki]

"Video games are a fundamentally different medium from all other mass media to date. You can't just write for it using old techniques" Said no Kojima ever.

[@timothyluscombe1876]

What happened to this narrator, miss him

[@ajpewding4058]

He left and is been doing new frame plus.

[@alexmann152]

Dark souls did this

[@tcrpgfan]

Souls in general did this. With arguably the best example being that one ring you get in 1-1 in demon's souls due to the fact that some dude in the nexus tells you his wife's backstory, and you encounter the area where she died. You don't know if it's her because her name is spelled on her corpse, you know because of the details the dude gave you about her.

[@lunavarion]

What an effed-up process to bring in the writers near the very end of the game-creating process. Many people play games for the story. Few people play games only for gameplay, and those that do are usually playing sports or combat/fighting games.

[@princessthyemis]

+Lunavarion I LOOOVE games with good stories. :)

[@lunavarion]

princessthyemis So do I! I love amazing stories despite the medium. From what I'm learning, though, game developers focus on levels and gameplay first and then tack on writing near the very end to give the game some sort of weak context, which is why most game stories are so bad. That makes absolutely no sense, though. Why wouldn't you include the story into the earliest phases of a game? If done well, it could result in a truly amazing experience that could seriously raise the game's reputation as well as make them truly memorable above the abundance of mediocre games.

[@lunavarion]

Marc Gonzàlez Pereira True, but once you have the audience, you need to keep them playing the game. A strong story can definitely help immerse the player in the world you've created. Gameplay alone can't do everything--unless you manage to tell story through gameplay, which is something most developers have a hard time doing.

[@user-zu1ix3yq2w]

I think the suikoden games have amazing stories.

[@wanghaifeng7998]

+Lunavarion Disagree , but a lot of people do focus on the story a lot too.

[@Tehn00bA]

"You can't write a fluffy game on the context of a gothic horror theme" Stubbs, the zombie? >XD

[@kyletowers9662]

zombies aren't gothic horror, they're modern horror.

[@hawksandwich4742]

Check out First Person Lover. It's not really a horror game, but it mixes a fluffy game with a war game. It worked perfectly, too.

[@yangliu6901]

kinda suprised that this channel was what inspired game theory

[@TheGaleforce99]

Phoenix downs cure the K.O. status. FF characters don't die in battle.

[@FeatherFall101]

I'm pretty sure the game theorists did a video on that before, that Aerith didn't actually die by Sephiroth's sword merely in a death-like comatose state and that its most likely Cloud, thinking her dead, putting her to rest in the lake might have actually caused her to drown.

[@lancegrabow9432]

Feather Fall thats why i dont like game theorist, he makes wild claims like that all the time. the phoenix down is simlpy a gameplay mechanic seperate from canon story as it always has. phoenix downs probably dont exist in canon and if they do they dont have quite the effect they do in gameplay

[@FeatherFall101]

Game Theory's videos are fun. game play and story segregation aside, its provides a fun excuse for why an item which brings people back from the brink couldn't save her.

[@lancegrabow9432]

Feather Fall i personally disagree with that, game theorists videos sometimes have that existential horror aspect to it, like the cloud drowning aeris thing. thats not fun to me, thats horrible to think about.

[@Luckinji]

Lance Grabow Do you suggest that we should not form theories at all? Or are you just referring to that one polarizing channel on KZbin?

[@equilibrium8088]

Imma be honest, I kinda miss when this series was the entire channel

[@FarNoGaming]

Phoenix Downs DO NOT CURE DEATH! They cure KO! >.> Also if people didn't like reading huge chunks of text in Video games then J-RPGs would have died in the NES era o.O

[@angelerror4086]

this is pretty good but it only affect large game

[@rh0dr1]

the entire Mother (Earthbound) series is built around narrative.

[@carolynfrancis5375]

Too bad we'll never get another Earthbound.

[@shaunodd8303]

Mother 3 has amazing story.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

@@carolynfrancis5375 We already have one. It's called Undertale.

[@mindswillbeblown]

I came back here after hearing that Dan was stepping down and I can't believe it's been so long. Hearing Dan's voice every week had become such a reliable part of my schedule that I didn't even notice how much it's changed over the years. Not only did the voice get better, but the pace of the narration and how engaging the show was improved so much. I'm looking forward to our new narrator and wish you guys all the best in your new endeavours. I can't wait for the Extra Frames series to come back!

[@PatacoinsTV]

THE LAUGH WAS SUPPOSED TO BE BAD. Come on, Extra Credits!

[@SereKabii]

I'm surprised. THIS is Extra Credits Episode 1? Wow, it's just as good as the other ones! It's the first time i saw a show or channel being literally failproof even at the very beginning! Seriously, you guys are something i should have checked earlier.

[@nubbbot2319]

And so. A legend began.

[@VestedUTuber]

When you mentioned W40K Dawn of War for conveying narrative, I could only think of one thing... "Rhinos? RHINOS?! Our enemies hide in METALH BAWKSES the cowards! The fools! Ah... we shall take away their METALH BAWKSES!!!" But then again, the Soulstorm expansion is only really known for its narm charm. It's definitely not of the same caliber as the original game and its previous expansions or the sequel and its expansions. (Though even then Dawn of War isn't the best example of narrative in Warhammer 40,000 when you compare it to the tabletop wargame)

[@Leucian5005]

Man, am I the only one who read all the long text in games, like I have read nigh every book in Skyrim, all the codex entries in Mass Effect and Dragon Age. The text blocks are great for when you need a break.

[@mauriceraat2781]

I think that Dragon Age actually did have a good story, dialogue was good because it gave you a actually choice and codex entries we're optional , they were very good Lore.

[@Finalblue1234]

After playing Asura's Wrath, i believe it WAS able to tell a story through JUST cutscenes, even with minimal gameplay. Same with Heavy Rain. I wish there were more games like this.

[@jcprofit]

Lots of games have bad stories. *Laughs in RPG*

[@sheriffaboubakar9720]

JCProfit *Laughs in Visual Novel*

[@zelnick9196]

the humble beginnings

[@bradynhopkins3580]

Be-holed the date when a legend was born

[@MiketheNerdRanger]

The question now is how? How do you do all these things?

[@spamus5243]

Where it all started. Good luck on your next great adventure, Dan.

[@Incog-e1z]

I really do miss these episodes.

[@erberor8007]

Ah, I gotta say that the Dawn of War games are really great. They do a fantastic job of giving all the units a unique feel. One of my favorite quotes from DOW2... "SHOW ME WHAT PASSES FOR FURY AMONG YOUR MISBEGOTTEN KIND!" that just screams Space Marine to me...

[@theartofwar551]

The Emperor protects my friend. I miss Dawn of War.

[@thewindwakinghero7423]

You know . . . . . . I'm sad 😔

[@LeandroBarbksa]

That's my problem with Uncharted 2. The cutscenes show a laid-back funny guy that's in for some exploration and treasure hunting, the gameplay presents a soldier that kills anyone that crosses his way without even thinking about and never showing any sign of remorse. That really threw me off of what could be a fantastic game. I still haven't played Uncharted 4 and I'm pretty sure they fixed that, considering what they did with The Last of Us, but I still can't get over that.

[@Pocket-Calculator]

Jardeson Barbosa No, they didn't. Uncharted is a prime example of a game made to showcase an engine and where everything else is just a second thought.

[@Bird_Dog00]

I never played Uncharted 2, but I can relate to your experience with it. I had the same experience with the 2013 Tomb Raider reboot. The cuscenes and dialogues told the story of a young nerdy archeology major and her pals trying to survive on a mysterious island inhabited by a crazy murderous cult. The gameplay told the story of Lara "Rambo with a ponytail" Croft casualy mowing down about two battalions worth of bearded wackjobs and samurai-zombies like she spent her live since reaching adulthood with the royal marine commandos, not sitting around in a university learning old greek. I guess we just have to wait for developers and publishers to finaly wrap their heads around the idea that the gameplay mechanic is part of the narative for getting good narative in AAA games. Allthough I got the sinking feeling our sun will die of old age before THAT will happen...

[@abovethelaw4417]

Uncharted stories are lame , cheap Indiana Jones rip offs. Last of us is also garbage

[@fumpledump]

I decided to go back to the first extra credits video since the original three are now gone :(

[@everythingilikerules]

It's this reason I appreciate FF5. Considering a certain scene. A very sad scene. I'm glad they used the game mechanics to ensure you know this character just isn't coming back and you already can see why considering the prior battle.

[@brandonfaddis7443]

2:50, this man called out Sucker for Love years before it even existed.

[@Nick-pc4in]

Paper mario: Sticker star had terrible story

[@ZenZeron3]

characterizations are awful in that game. Though if you want to praise a game for characterizations, go with Fire Emblem: Awakening or The Last of Us

[@Nick-pc4in]

Yes. Fire Emblem had a great unique and peculiar cast of characters, while Paper Mario just threw nameless toads to be the victim of every problem.

[@xfrogyfro]

Nick Tuskey Make sure you differentiate between "Paper Mario" and "Paper Mario Sticker Star" One was fantastic, and one was horrific.

[@Nick-pc4in]

Right, I'm talking all about Paper Mario Sticker Star, the rest of them were alright.

[@xfrogyfro]

Nick Tuskey Alright!? Say what you want about them, but the first three had fantastic writing.

[@bonkymcnoggin]

When he said a memo from the marketing department all I could see is tombstone from Spiderman

[@Mysio]

Funny how you show F3 as a game with great writing when it had one of the worst writing I encountered in AAA games. Even Cod games are better than F3.

[@Ashalmawia]

you missed a key point of the video. their point was that the "writing" is not just the text and plot, but includes ALL of the ways that the world is conveyed to the player. You're right, the actual writing in F3 was pretty underwhelming, but the overall feel of the game was fantastic.

[@139-b7j]

This guy was talking about Souls games back in early 2012 holy shit

[@JediArgento]

I wish someday you talk about Ludonarrative Dissonance, and how to detect it while we play games and trying to stay on its narrative.

[@SomeFreakingCactus]

Care to explain what that is?

[@BenRangel]

Kyle Hart When gameplay and story don't match. For instance in GTAIV when you kill hundreds in the game and then have cutscene where the main character feels bad about a murder

[@daniell9834]

¿Dayo? :P

[@Phyrior]

BenRangel The given explaination is that Niko doesn't kill so much as disable.

[@BenRangel]

Phyrior Yeah, but the player doesn't buy that explanation for one second. The gameplay makes it look and feel like we're doing massive amounts of killing; therein lies the dissonance.

[@DarkSideOfMirror]

I mean.. There are good games with many dialoges and text (like persona) xD

[@km_studios]

3:23 I am SO sick of the laughing scene in Final Fantasy X being used as an example of bad voice acting in video games!!! No one seems to realize that this clip is almost always talked about OUT OF CONTEXT!

[@pokeyminch8376]

KingMeteorStudios AAAAH HAHAHAHAHA

[@damon22441]

Metal Gear Solid must an exception to this concept... but why? Long-ass cutscenes that dominantly drive the plot, interesting boss battles, stealth/sneaking gameplay, long-ass codec calls with plenty of text (though still voiced), but nonetheless the world is designed beautifully around this, and gameplay doesn't exactly take a hit. Gameplay to Not-Gameplay ratio might be abnormal in comparison to other games, but it still made for a masterpiece of a work with a nuanced story and interesting replayability. Rare gems like these somehow 'do it right' and not always through the proclaimed process in this video.

[@binglesnort]

"Its true, video games have told some painfully bad stories of the years..." *COUGH COUGH HACK COUGH* metal gear rising *COUGH COUGH* sorry there was something in my throat. i think it was regret

[@Dogan2]

I loved Alison Theus' art waaay back in like 2002 so finding out she is the artist here is crazy

[@Y8080-j7k]

اتمنى تستمرو في الترجمة اشكر القناة على الترجمة واشكر عبدالله كونش

[@zmbdog]

Psychonauts does it really well with voiceovers and quick sequences in the mental realms you're exploring. It's a great way to advance the story AND develop the characters with active gameplay instead of drawn-out cutscenes.

[@theproteanbro5994]

Who's watching this in 2016?

[@jasscat7645]

+Bakari Aziz A Troll

[@zennanperkins770]

Who fucking cares

[@iceclkeyheart3060]

2018 bro you stuck in the past

[@UnknownTuber450]

Why does it say original air date? Also, why did KZbin have to remove sort by oldest

[@yasser2983]

أكثر شيء أعجبني الترجمة يا ريت تترجموا كل المقاطع للغة العربية.

[@tinchosabala]

I find these old episodes much more charming than the more recent ones...I don’t really know why...

[@nitrocide1746]

Huh... this is actually really weird because a ton of the games I have said in the past have bad stories, actually have a really amazing narrative. and because of this immersion of the areas and the lore of the land... they continue to be my favorite games. because it's still such a blast to be in that world. Take for example a level in the first few spyro games (2 or 3 are easier) and the stories are simple. Spyro the Dragon: Treasure's taken, everyone else is crystalized. get all the things in all the worlds Spyro 2: Ripto's Rage/ Gateway to Glimmer: Spyro tries to go on vacation, has to collect orbs to get home. Spyro: Year of the Dragon: All of the dragon eggs are stolen, find them all. Simplistic stories that can be summed up in a single bound but if you try explaining in detail about what you do in every world, it becomes a sloppy mess. But if you "read" each world as it's own story or chapter, it becomes a huge expansive and lore rich environment that just delivers in much more than the scarce dialog can provide. Part of the reason was because of memory issues and partly because it was a way to show parts of the strange universe that the game takes place in.

[@DarkinPunk]

The pitching on Dan's voice back then is quite jarring when you've become used to how it is now. o_O

[@delta6244]

ONE WORD........... PHOENIX WRIGHT

[@mathew633man]

naruhodo

[@Fireball309]

OBJECTION! The witness clearly states 2 words!

[@TM-si1ky]

Matt You called?

[@watchspotting]

Rainbow Bunchie TWO WORDS....... TWO WORDS!

[@michaeljames6737]

i dont care for story in games in general its a game im supposed to have fun i see games get talk down for story and i played them i have lots of fun with them a bad story doesnt make a game bad and a good story dont make a game good

[@DanteThe1990]

Bad Writing - why most of the KZbin content creators make bad videos - Extra Credits included.

[@JackSnotty]

Make a choice. Credits or Credit.

[@meam2728]

When extra credits was great

[@candiedCoder]

The episode after

[@nerdsomnia]

"Games can't tell their stories through disconnected segments of gameplay strung together by cutscenes." Good lord how many of those have we played... >.

[@carolynfrancis5375]

-Metal Gear Solid 4 -Destiny -Call Of Duty series -the Arkham games -The Last Of Us All examples of popular games with bad or cliché stories.

[@shaunodd8303]

Carolyn Francis MSG4? It may have had long cutscenes, but I don't think the plot was bad.

[@neophenxgaming]

Good lord... Kingdom Hearts is one of those. Awesome action packed gameplay but really the draw to KH games is the story, as its hack-and-slash isn't really that new or innovative. It's the story that captivates the audience, and the gameplay just fills in to buffer up time until you get to the next cutscene location... Kindom Hearts might as well just be a movie now that I think of it.