Loving Dragon Age - A Series that ALWAYS CHANGES

[@cardsmcgee]

it's just so crazy that EA saw this studio with a formula that worked and was SUCCESSFUL, and were like "naw actually what we need is for you to pump out the same slop that was popular 4 years ago, everyone's gonna buy it bro trust me" like WHAT. I've heard someone describe Bioware's decision makers as "human excel spreadsheets" and that is as true as it gets

[@RockoEstalon]

Stake holders don't have any creative thinking. They just buy studios and expect them to churn out stuff that's similar to what it's popular now. EA seems to be at least understanding now that the model of the "infinite game" is a pipedream.

[@Dak1624]

Not true at all. As Jason Schreier report about why Anthem was failure confirmed by inside the company cources is that they started working on the game in 2012 and still by 2017 they didn't knew what the game will be. After 5 years still not knowing and just draining money is not good. After that EA took over and created that "gameplay" footage we all saw and based on that Bioware build the game.

[@DavesChaoticBrain]

Personally, I will ALWAYS want to see new things get tried out. But definitely, they should be holding on to things that are loved, while also enhancing those things.

[@politecat9207]

Exactly. As a famous saying in my country goes, "don't mess with a team that is winning". They should have kept the parts of previous games that players loved, and only explored new things on the parts that players didn't love, or best of all, listen to player suggestions. But these are the moments where it becomes easier for us to see how the industry doesn't care about the players.

[@Ruler_of_Tired]

I wouldn't have any problems with that.

[@koe_balt]

Yes I think BioWare sometimes over corrects things and is hyper sensitive to all feedback.

[@Pikaru-c4u]

Look at final fantasy. They wonder why sales suck even for remake. They change games styles so much. Games dnt stick to what makes them freak like they did In the 90s

[@BBS-dl1lt]

@@politecat9207it’s hard with dragon age when actual player counts have gone up each game despite the changes being seen as negative to some players. Inquisition is far more successful financially than origins, but I’m assuming you’re one who thinks origins is better. So what are BioWare meant to believe? Evidence based on their player metrics and financial success? Or some people in KZbin comments saying the opposite? I don’t disagree with you, but I think people need to start realizing that they need to make games accessible and interesting to the widest demographic possible. With fantasy games, you already lose out on all the people who aren’t interested in that. It’s a niche genre as it is. No fantasy game can come close in sales compared to FIFA.

[@richardhollis3783]

"When you are chasing trends, you are, by definition, always behind." Ironically, that's a quote from one of the DA books themselves. Yet it speaks so much to a core issue of the series. Bioware used to lead the way with CRPGs; as soon as they got bought out, they started chasing trends (presumably because they now have to answer to people who don't really understand games except as a Product To Make Money), and that's always a losing game.

[@richieene1042]

i mean they were moving to action games well before they got bought out, was that a good decision?🤷🏾‍♂️

[@Alonelythoughts]

@@richieene1042 I think it was good for other ip's than Dragon Age

[@Knight1029]

I don't disagree but I think saying Bioware was leading the way with CRPGs is odd. Dragon Age Origins is successful but it wasn't that influential on the industry. After it released we didn't see an uptick of CRPGs. We saw a downtick. Mass Effect was far more influential than Dragon Age.

[@frankf5486]

@@Knight1029 Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Neverwinter Nights, KOTOR, Jade Empire... Bioware was around long before either DA or ME were thought of. Baldur's Gate was one of the 3 big Fantasy RPG series around back then. They helped people who preferred Fantasy to Sci Fi get in to gaming.

[@Knight1029]

@@frankf5486 I know Bioware made those games. I played them. What's you point?

[@ashleadavis5008]

This is a great critique- it summarizes the grief I've been feeling since finishing the game. All of the things I loved about previous games, feels missing in DAtV. That Bioware magic wasn't there for me and it hurts. We don't have to leave everything beloved behind for a 'new' future. People love this franchise for a reason. I'm all for embracing new things, but retain what works and amalgamate the two. DAtV could have been the ultimate love letter to fans. I hope that if we're ever lucky enough to get a DA5 that they take on these lessons.

[@aaronlaughter6471]

We will, hell, you truly think DAV hate is bad, you truly do not remember how much DA2 was despised by this fanbase. Sold half the Origins and still got a new game.

[@ashleadavis5008]

@@Ian_Moon42 note that I said that the magic was missing “for me”. If it was still there for you, great! I’m happy for you 😊 I also wouldn’t assume that I’m hung up on “one” thing about DAtV and letting it ruin my experience. I’m on my third play through. People are entitled to their thoughts and feelings about the game and mine are complex.

[@waynehay79]

I loved Origins, but Dragon Age 2 is my favorite. Inquisition had great elements but lots of issues. I have been loving the DA2 DNA in Veilguard. There are flaws, but I am loving it so far. My perfect Dragon Age might have been what DA2 could have been with more time to cook.

[@Sam-yo3bj]

My biggest disappointment with Veilguard was the seeming enforcement of a strict black and white view (excluding Solas). Every good guy was undeniably good, whilst not a single villain had the sort of complexity we've seen in prior games. They were all just...evil, and most in a manner that was very cartoonish. - Where were the Antivan Crows that kidnap children and slaves and force them through brutal training that can kill them? Lucanis' abusive upbringing and the way that impacts his relationship with Caterina? - Why did the Lords of Fortune make a point of having to establish themselves as 'ethical' pirates, when Isabela was a morally grey companion whose decision almost doomed a city? - Why was every companion quest ending decision so neutral? It truly felt like the choices for the companions were created so that no player would regret their decision. My friend picked the exact opposite choices for every companion to me, and our conversation about them amounted it "yeah...I get it." vs past game decisions that we have debated back and forth for hours. - Where was the complexity, the anger, the sorrow, that comes with thousands of elves finding the truth out about their religion? The conflicts that would arise among them as some choose to cast aside all their beliefs whilst others cling on. - Etc.

[@am.ivanova]

this lack of impact also implies to Rook imo... like, it didn't matter (special choices aside) which dialogue option you chose, Rook was always Rook and there was no variance. i was often mixing responses because i couldn't find that just one of the categories fit Rook's character, but if these different options can work together so cohesively, it means none of the options expresses a "strong" enough position somehow

[@utalotharingia]

You bring up some of the best criticisms I've seen. I guess that's the difference between someone playing the game instead of just watching a KZbin video and repeating what was said in it.

[@SquirrelHops]

@@am.ivanova I dont remember who said it but someone said that Rook's dialogue choices are "I whole heartedly agree with you", "I sarcastically agree with you", and "I sternly agree with you" and I couldn't agree more lol... There wasnt much variety haha

[@carlanovi9598]

This. Overall, the lack of depth and complexity of the characters, especially the companions was the biggest disappointment in Veilguard. They made them so none can hate them, but also none can truly love them. They are so bland. And don't even get me started on the dialogues. No subtext, no subtlety, and very cringe most of the time. When I compare the party banter from previous games to this one... I mean, It's the first time I did not even care if I did not hear it. I can forgive most things really, like the game's visuals, the slightly underwhelming music, the combat, etc. And I think a lot of us woulf have accepted anything. But not bad writing.

[@FelisImpurrator]

I really am not seeing a lot of this kind of criticism while playing the game other than "the antagonists are straight up evil". Quite a bit of this stuff just doesn't fit into the pacing of the plot. That's the inherent strength and weakness of a race against time doomsday plot: It's focused and fast, but there simply isn't a great time to focus on the specific sorts of things you're talking about. This is, for better or worse, the ME2 of Dragon Age. It's very similar in almost every way. Only, the specific characters who were picked to be party members aren't really in the same narrative positions. You can't expect something like Mordin's regrets over the genophage when none of the characters are responsible FOR that kind of thing personally - it was only a major thing for him because it was his responsibility, and thus his story to be part of. I mean they could have done something crazy and put Caterina on the team as the Crow and that would have allowed for a similar sort of reckoning, but... It kind of needed the magic bird winged abomination rather than just a regular old woman who's good at killing regular people, especially when they decided to raise the stakes and bring forth apocalyptic threats in a high-magic setting. Sure, you could then argue we should have gotten a plot with more grounded antagonists and thus more fitting context to explore things like the politics of Tevinter in depth... But then you're kind of saying "we should just have had Inquisition again but in Tevinter" because... That's what Inquisition was. They wanted an action oriented game (and have been trying to push in that direction for like 15 years, let's be real, they hard stopped being CRPG devs after Mass Effect and DAO, and Frostbite was never going to deliver us BG3) and everything was oriented around that. That doesn't mean it's above any criticism but it does mean quite a few of these are "why isn't this a different game with a different story".

[@tykellen]

the lack of choice and moral complexity, breaks my heart. and i'm with you, i mourn the game it could have been but i enjoyed what we got.

[@BBS-dl1lt]

Lack of choice is eh. I don’t care much. I don’t need every dragon age to be another mess of diverging timelines that just further complicate the plot for later games. The lack of moral complexity is what really bothered me though. Like the crows are shown to be good guys with no flaws. The pirate faction are “ethical treasure hunters.” Even the shadow dragon freedom fighters are never shown getting their hands dirty. This could have been so interesting with the 6 complex factions being forced to work together. There was just nothing particularly interesting about any of them. I loved the game still, but I do think this aspect of very clear “good guys” and “bad guys” feels very much against what dragon age used to be.

[@mandu6665]

Lack of choice? Inquisition and DA2 weren't overflowing with choices either and most of it was good or bad. People need to talk off the nostalgia glasses and look at those games for what they truly are.

[@BBS-dl1lt]

@@mandu6665I also agree with this. I think I like Veilguard because it’s just a better game in general. It’s polished, it’s a cool story, and it has enough choices to keep me happy. Previous dragon age entries were…not good. I still love them, but that doesn’t change the fact they were buggy, unpolished, full of “illusion of choice”, and honestly poorly written a lot of the time. Nostalgia glasses in the right word I think. No idea why people are mad about Veilguard not being perfect when the last 3 games were literally dumpster fires.

[@AlexMercer00]

​@@mandu6665 It stopped in DAI yes, but DA2 was full of choices in its side quests. EVERY side quests in DA2 you can decide to spare or let go a villain. in DAV you can not. there are no choices in the side quests

[@RockoEstalon]

@@BBS-dl1lt People do really overhype the reactivity and "world state" of Inquisition. I do like Inquisition but all the choices you can transfer are pointless cosmetic changes except for who is the Warden contact that the inquisitor meets in "Here Lies the Abyss". Origins has a plethora of choices that never mattered in the sequels: Who is King/Queen of Ferelden doesn't change political relations at all, who is King in Orzammar doesn't change anything except for some dialogue saying that Bhelen is more open to trade with the surface, Hawke being Viscount of Kirkwall or a leader of the Mage Rebellions has no impact either, they just come and go.

[@game-of-our-lives]

I think the elves and Qunari looking so unique in DA2 is because you aren't able to play as them.

[@theobell2002]

No? There are so many RPG's with unique looking races that you can play yourself.

[@Ashbrash1998]

As well as the Qunari were pretty much the same model.

[@VirgilOvid]

And that's perfectly okay. Not every character has to be playable. It would be better to have just male and female humans as the player option if that meant allowing other species to be unique.

[@amalteaaa]

@@theobell2002 yeah but DA2 isn't other RPGs. This game was massively rushed and a voiced protagonist of a fixed race that you could only change the appearance of was chosen because "it worked in Mass Effect". It certainly made making unique designs for Qunari and Elves easier because they didnt have to take all the complexities of character creation, riging and so on into consideration with their limited time frame and resources.

[@shaym.1372]

People also forget that, yes, the bespoke modeled elves Fenris and Merrill look great, the NPC elves generally looked really really bad

[@ichigokurosaki2119]

Genuinely want to say: really good analysis. I have not yet seen anyone actually grapple with this particular aspect of Dragon Age as a series in as comprehensive a manner. Well done and well said. Thank you for this.

[@reffa2858]

There was a guy who talked about the topic of DA's identity a while back. The best he could find as a identity or mascot for the series was the stylized tarot cards.

[@litheq]

@@reffa2858 Dragon Age definitely has an identity, and that is its lore. I'm aware that only a few of us have truly delved deep into it.

[@reffa2858]

@@litheq im talking about identity as something you can see and immediately know what it is. You see a mustache man with a red hat and you know it's mario. You see a green suit of armor, you know it's Master Chief. The lore is a bit of a cop out because they've sort of been retconning things since DA2.

[@lydiamyers7784]

You're absolutely right that Dragon Age changes completely every time, but I wonder if people's opinion on Veilguard is based on which of the previous games is their favorite. My favorite of the original three was Dragon Age 2, so Veilguard felt like a return to the Dragon Age I knew and loved after what was a (frustrating) gameplay and story shift in Inqusition. Though, obviously, with Veilguard's story being most closely tied to Inquisition, it would have made the most sense for Veilguard to be similar to Inquisition.

[@perfectionnement95]

So true

[@RockoEstalon]

I'm kinda lost, in which way is similar to Dragon Age 2? You mean in the story or in the gameplay loop? DA2 was pretty goofy in parts but that game was super dark. I do think the character design is closer to DA2 with the big heads and they tried again to make the combat look "flashy" with all the characters jumping around, rather than the slog of Inquisition.

[@davidlastewart6183]

My perfect dragon age would be bringing back past choices from previous games. I liked the flavour and illusion it gave. I enjoyed Veilguard but this choice weighed heavily and I kept having to convince myself to try not to think about it. One reason I think different protagonist worked so well was the next one could feel the effects of the last. My Hawke having to protect Harrowmonts family because my Warden chose Bhelen was cool to me. The keep indirectly kept our past protagonist somewhat relevant. Veilguard felt like it closed a chapter but not the book. If we do a full reboot next dragon age it would be starting something that previously wasn’t finished imo.

[@Alonelythoughts]

The one thing i liked from Veilguarrd is that i have so many questions or theories now about the lore such as Golden City was created by Evanuris and why was it empty (Dread wolf stuff probably), and how the 'Singing' from Red Lyrium or Grey Warden's 'Calling' is actually from the Evanuris etc etc (just my theories)... I've only 11 hours into the game so i still have long way to go lol The thing i don't like however, one of them being Bellara, It's one of those things that we learnt about Elvhen history / long lost history from Solas and Ancient elf such as Abellas, such as the Vallaslin stuff or the Well of sorrows, the Civilization etc. Even the Dalish were wrong about their Elvhen history. And then there's Bellara and The Veil Jumpers. I know i'm no expert in lore and may be wrong about lots of stuffs but, it just kind of bugs me

[@koe_balt]

@@Alonelythoughtsyeah keep playing - Dalish history is basically Evanuris propaganda

[@koe_balt]

I think it’s part of the reason we moved to the north of Thedas, so that we don’t have to account for those decisions. But there are certain plot threads that could have been weaved into this narrative. If this was the blight to end all blights and end the calling shouldn’t the HoF be at least mentioned? Or the architect since he also experimented with the blight may be put at odds with Ghil’anain.

[@Alonelythoughts]

@@koe_balt Yep, it’s understandable if people dont like the Dread Wolf as he is a trickster and part of the forgotten ones, it’s weird that people suddenly knows that the Evanuris are bad, the ones who knows are very few aside from the Dread Wolf Agent and some from the Inquisition, though dont know if there are any explanations from the comics as i dont read the newer ones

[@koe_balt]

@@Alonelythoughts Strife and Irelen find out about Solas a year before the events of the game - it’s in “the calling” but I don’t know to what extent the dalish clans know.

[@stephaniehitt5562]

Love what you said and how you approached this topic. I'm currently very much enjoying Veilguard but I'm curious if anyone else has noticed how racial and religious conflicts seem very toned down. Like, I played as an elf in Tevinter which I expected to be fraught with comments and racist remarks from people in Tevinter and like.....there was basically nothing. The Qun and Tevinter have been at war for literal decades now and apparently if you play as qunari basically no one notices?? From the beginning of the series your race or class choices could really effect the interactions you have in the game (in DA2 you can only be human but if you play as a mage I seem to remember a lot of "omg you're an apostate" sort of comments). For me, these echos of real life racial and religious conflict are are CORE part of the dragon identity and dragon age world. But...they're just gone now?? What happened to the mage templar conflict? Quanari vs basically everyone else? the general racist attitude towards elves?? I mean you spend time in Tevinter which isn't that still a city where slavery is legal and you don't see a single slave? Unless this got explained in a codex entry or i missed some dialogue in DAI or veilguard explaining this. Please somebody let me know if I just missed something major here. I really really don't want Dragon Age to have lost this complex and often thought provoking element.

[@alshee74]

This was the thing I noticed most in Veilguard. I was a Shadow Dragon, expecting to see Slavery and Magisters vying for power and stuff like every previous game has talked about. But slavery is just not a theme other than people saying the shadow dragons fight slavery. The world just feels like a shell of itself. I still loved playing, but I think it was because I was so thirsty for more Dragon Age rather than because its a good Dragon Age game

[@beccangavin]

Yes! I don’t think they used the setting to full advantage and the whole game lacks nuance. Everyone on your side is a good guy and they do nothing but good things and everyone on the bad guy side is a bad guy who does bad things. I expected to fight elves that followed their gods and we aren’t getting any of that. The elves are good guys who do good guy things.

[@EvaLoVerde]

Yes, exactly! The world felt so real because it had the same issues we have, but now different races make no difference

[@otherworldlyfiction]

The lack of reactivity to elf or Qunari players also bothers me. Overall I'm enjoying the game, but wanted to see the racism and slavery in Tevinter I've heard so much about. I wanted to see a lot more of Tevinter in general. I would have been okay with regions like Rivain or the Anderfels being cut, if I could have seen a couple different sections of Minrathous instead.

[@beccangavin]

@@otherworldlyfiction That was one of my complaints about Inquisition. My first run I tried to play as a Qunari mage and nobody reacted the way I would expect people to react to a Qunari mage because the logical reaction wouldn’t fit with the story they were trying to tell. So essentially we all played as a human wearing the skin of whatever race we selected. I do appreciate that there are a few points in DAV where I’m told that people assumed my elf was a slave. It doesn’t have much impact because we never meet any actual slaves. On this topic, why didn’t the Venitori just sacrifice the slaves they already owned? Why didn’t the Shadow Dragons have a mission to save those slaves? Wouldn’t that have been much more logical?

[@PoDawg]

Yea definitely my biggest problem with the series as a whole is the amount of changes that keeps happening. I want there to be consistency and a solid identity for Dragon Age you know and it just gets tiring how much stuff changes with each game whether that be the combat, art style, tone, choices etc.

[@elwizschold]

I've been a fan since DA:O, and love the games for different reasons. But yeah, the series as a whole is about Thedas (heck: Thedas = The D(ragon) A(ge) S(etting)). I'm glad the protagonist changes, otherwise they'd limit themselves too much and limit the stakes (i.e., the protagonist needs to keep surviving and becoming superpowered).

[@IronCrone]

After completing the game, my biggest complaint about Veilguard is in fact the world. I feel like the first three games really built upon the game before and stayed true to the established lore from Origins. Veilguard felt like it just took cliffs notes on all things Dragons Age (surface level) and did whatever the hell they wanted within a world called Thedas but felt very disconnected. Spoilers: Antivan crows were nothing like how other games described them. They felt like a kinder, gentler order of assassin’s all about family. They weren’t the crafty, slick, assassins in the shadows of questionable morals and rough upbringings (it has been said before that they forced children into their ranks to be trained as assassins). Gone are the threats that if you fail a mission, you would be executed. It was just some rather tame mafia that cared about people and family and I felt that was a stark divorce from game predecessors. There was barely any reactivity to your lineage/race. I played an elf and I still had other elves over explaining elf things to me. I’m playing Qunari now and there is just one or two throw away lines by Maevaris in Minrathous how a Qunari might receive some “difficultly” yet I have received barely any resistance. My lineage has no impact in a world where previously it would have impactful ramifications in certain regions. I felt like they stripped all nuance from the world of Theda’s and made everyone the same with different skins. No one seems to have deep principles and beliefs that drive them forward and not having those beliefs get into conflict with the players own or other companions is a big loss for me. Then they basically burned all of what happened in the three games to the ground by the south basically being destroyed by the end of the game. Last rant: I hated the solavellan ending. Why the hell would the inquisitor just piss off with Solas into the fade when the south was is such chaos? The right choice would be to convince solas to save the fade and then separate from him to help restore peace then Join him later.

[@Kornelius707]

Yeah that's what many people mean when they say it's too safe. The nuance and intrigue and interesting parts of the lore were sanitized and fitted E for everyone lol

[@brewster9235]

I think specifically with the Antivan Crows, it's changed a bit from Dragon Age Origins for sure. But I also think the lore of that has been closer to that in Veilguard for a while. And I imagine the Crows that Zevran knew had changed a bit when leadership of the Crows changed. His family was First Talon before House Delamorte. So I could see a valid lore reason why the culture shift of Crows (at least closer to House Dellamorte) has changed. And I think they still technically employ orphans, kill if missions fail, etc.. I think we just saw a very small slice of Crows battling for their lives, and killing Crows doesn't make a whole lot of sense at the moment. All of this to say is I don't think the lore is so off. BUT the reacitivty I TOTALLY agree on. I like the backgrounds you get with your factions, but it's really weird having Inquisition, where your race mattered so much to the reactivity of the game, and not have that in Veilguard as much.

[@Alonelythoughts]

Yeah, remember they tried to persuade Zevran to finish his mission to kill the warden else he would be executed. Also, we learnt about Elvhen history / long lost history from Solas and Ancient elf such as Abellas, (Vallaslin stuff, Well of sorrows, Arlathan and their Civilization etc etc). Even the Dalish for the most part, were wrong about their Elvhen history. And then there's Bellara and The Veil Jumpers. I know i'm no expert in lore and may be wrong about lots of stuffs but, it just kind of bugs me

[@lavellan2312]

I agree strongly with all of this, except that I personally loved the Solavellan ending. It was one of the only things I really loved in this game, unfortunately. My Lavellan has done enough, and been enough, for long enough. There's no longer anything about her that makes her uniquely capable of saving people, it's been years since she formally disbanded the Inquisition, and this was never a job she sought out, just one that fell into her lap. I also don't think if she "separate(d) from him to help restore peace, then join(ed) him later," she would ever know where to draw the line. Thedas is never truly at peace, and I was so happy to see Lavellan set down the mantle and let that become someone else's problem.

[@lavellan2312]

@@brewster9235 I don't want to put late game spoilers in KZbin comments, so I'll just say you mention some specific Crow qualities as probably still being the case, but where we actually do see them ignored in this game. And the Crows in this game feel significantly watered down and de-clawed even compared to the exact same characters Tevinter Nights, which just came out four years ago and was in many ways a lead-in to Veilguard. You're right that we have seen schisms and warring ideologies within the Crows since as far back as DAO. But the version we got in Veilguard felt like all of that was completely resolved and wrapped up, not just offscreen, but in the extremely short in-world timeframe between Tevinter Nights and Veilguard.

[@th33th1rd]

I’m a fan since Origins, and despite all of the changes, I love the way there’s a strong connecting thread binding all 4 eras together. I know a lot of the changes come from the top down, and parts of this game definitely felt like they could’ve been expanded on further in DLC but I really did like how Veilguard attempted to pull all of the series entries together in a sequel to Inquisition. If I ever had a gripe DAV it would just be that we aren’t getting DLC despite all of the world shaking events and reveals that happen.

[@MadameBlegh]

Yes it really needs an epilogue both for the game and the series

[@nightingalebard]

I agree about the DLC. While I have a ton of respect for the devs wanting the story to be done in the base game... I used to love looking forward to DLCs. It kept the hype for the franchise and new games going, even after beating it. I'd also love to see a short 'after' story, where we can spend some more time with these companions and see northern Thedas in a way we weren't able to due to the urgency of the main story. It'd be a great time for them to show us culture in Tevinter, Rivain, etc. in ways that were described to us in past games, but we rarely, if ever, got to see in Veilguard.

[@RockoEstalon]

While I wouldn't mind DLC, I'd rather some ideas get their own games. Descent for example makes Harding's quest a bit redudant.

[@wicked_Italian]

I understand your frustrations. I definitely believe it has to do with the publisher. They have a lot of games that are what's popular. I'm glad Gary McKay said BioWare is going to concentrate on single player, because that's what I expect from BioWare. I don't want multiplayer, I want single player campaign RPG. I want more of the choices to carry over and I think the fact Veilguard actually really was in development for 3 and a half years is the reason why many choices didn't get carried over and why elements from Inquisition weren't mentioned much or at all. I hope many people get the art book and read it to see the lengths the devs had to go through to get to where we are now. It's a tough road and there are parts of Veilguard that I wish could have been expanded upon further, but at the end of the day, I do love what BioWare gave us and hope that they'll be able to take the criticisms and show the publisher "this is what the fans want" and the publisher will actually allow them to do it.

[@davidradach9311]

That would be the best case scenario. I’d love nothing more than to see a Dragon Age game where all the fans get what they want.

[@AZtarheel]

​@@davidradach9311We can always hope, but there's the old saying: "We can please all of the people some of the time and we can please some of the people all of the time, but we cannot please all of the people all of the time." I think a major 'issue' with the DA franchise is that there were two games where folks really jumped on board. DA:I was the first game for a lot of fans (like our illustrious influencer). Yet because DA:I is totally different from DA:O, we'll always have the debate of "which one to base new games from." Perhaps there is a middle ground, but there will always be people that want 100% return to form (whatever that means for DA), which unfortunately means there will always be unsatisfied customers no matter what devs do.

[@davidradach9311]

@@AZtarheel True on all counts! People being people we all like different things. And in long-standing game series, we’re always partial to the first one we play (I’ve known about Persona for years, put Persona 5 holds a special place in my heart, as it’s the first Persona I played all the way through). Return to form? For me personally, for DA, that would mean the dark, adult narratives in Origins, with the party banter of DA2, with the combat of Veilguard (just with full party control and no non-PC immortality). But that’s just me. 😁 I wouldn’t mind more RPG character progression, either. Since Origins it’s steadily been watered down more and more.

[@Lopasblin]

How many times are we going to blame the publisher? Did the publisher force them to write such boring characters? Looks like Weekes had free reign to do whatever

[@kalaelizabeth]

I absolutely agree. I wish the development wasn't so tumultuous. This game and the devs deserved better

[@MattFreezen]

How do you look at any of these games and see "realism" in its design? All of them have had stylized art designs. They just aren't always consistent with them. Doesn't mean any of them are realistic. The art style of Veilguard took some getting used to, but its one of the best looking games in the series.

[@Lex_Nocturna]

No

[@GattsBerserkArmor]

This seems like Kala is suffering from a case of nostalgia glasses, she pretty much keep saying she wanted/expected Veilguard to aesthetically look similar to Inquisition and is not disapointed because this didn't happened.

[@angelicastern2385]

What’s missing for me in TV is the writing. It feels off for a rated M game. This game should have been rated T for teen.

[@beccangavin]

Yeah. It’s odd to me that they chose to make the game mature and then treat the audience like they’re children. I’m still having fun playing the game, but it had the potential to be really great and it missed the mark. I think.

[@me5969]

​@@beccangavinI've not played it yet but I suspect it's two things. Firstly it's ultimately a 7 year old game. So the writing is from the time of full Marvel. The other reason and I've suspected this for a while is because of the Citadel DLC. It was extremely well received and rightly so but it was tonally different to the rest of ME and DA at the time. Since then they've gone a bit overboard on the quippyness and I think it's a result of them thinking the Citadel DLC is what we want and not the Lovecraftian space opera ME was or the almost horror + game of thrones vibes of certainly DA origins but even DA2.

[@beccangavin]

@@me5969 The writing isn’t Marvel-esque and, despite the vibe in the first trailer, it’s not quippy. Varric is the only quippy one. Another comment I read said that “…They’ll say sh*t and they’ll say d@mn, but they won’t say f*ck.” Which is extremely apt. So the vibe is a bit immature. What I meant specifically about the game treating us like children, however, was an excessive degree of hand holding on things we should have been able to figure out by context. For example, you have a conversation with Harding where you have the option to be supportive and treat her new powers like a gift. You can tell by her reaction that she appreciates your support. The game will then pop open a little side bar that says explicitly that you have elected to be supportive and that Harding appreciates it. Another example, Solas will remember your dialogue options which is a neat mechanic…but every time they employ it they pop up the little side bar that explains that the game remembers your previous dialogue options. As adults, we should be able to understand from context what our selections are and what impact they will have, but the game feels the need to spell it out for us anyway. Taash’s story is juvenile and presented in the least engaging way possible and Bellara’s story ends up being pretty basic but both of them had immense potential and would have been absolutely fantastic in the hands of better writers. Taash’s story feels like a very special episode. Both characters are hurt by the fact that they are supposed to be adults, but they are written like adolescents. Still having fun playing the game! But not blind to its areas of opportunity.

[@mandu6665]

@@beccangavin The game doesn't treat you like a child at all. That's on you feeling like a victim and being so sensitive over nothing.

[@beccangavin]

@@mandu6665 I’m not particularly sensitive and I’m not offended by anything in the game. It’s just an observation. The game states explicitly things that could be understood by adults with just context clues and some of the writing could have been better. Some of the plots are YA fiction-like. I’ve been playing DAV almost every day since it came out and I’m enjoying it very much, actually. I just agree with the OP in this thread that the writing doesn’t match the mature rating.

[@mizhobo1808]

I played these games in order. I was obsessed with all of them and the newest one was always my favorite. But I think, Inquisition is my favorite. Everything I love about Dragon Age peaked with that game. It isn’t perfect but even now after finishing Veilguard it still holds its place in my heart.

[@invaderjoshua6280]

This game was awful through and through. My steam review sums up my thoughts pretty well so I'm just gonna paste that below. This game was the final nail in the coffin for me with Bioware. This is not Bioware its a husk calling itself Bioware and hijacking their IP's. I actually felt hurt playing this game after growing up with DA Origins, DA2, ME1, and ME2. Updated Review after 100%: 1. Why am I playing as the team therapist? Why are there therapy sessions and group feeling circles after nearly every big mission? Why dose the main character strike weirdly overly positive poses and use extremely therapist sounding lines all the time? 2. Who thought Taash was an interesting idea for a character? All she dose is complain and get angry. She also constantly contradicts things she says about herself in dialog. One minute she has never been under the Quun the next she is citing it as if she has. Just a badly written character overall. Honestly the entire Lords of Fortune faction felt out of place in this game. 3. Why are you not playing as the Inquisitor in this? The change to Hawk and then the Inquisitor in the past games from the Warden made sense, it was their new stories. In this game your playing as this supposedly super awesome random person who is awesome for (insert generic reason here), yet it is obviously meant to be the Inquisitors and Solas's story continued from Inquisition. In no way dose this game try to hide that fact. The dialog at times sounds weird when you consider its being said to Rook and not the Inquisitor. 4. Why was their only one true choice carried over from past games? Is the inquisition disbanded or not? Choices carrying over is what Dragon Age was built upon. With the game doing this I find it hard for me to consider this canon when their are multiple times in the game that this game goes against my past choices at least a bit. 5. Why is everything now about the ancient elven gods? This game undoes every bit of lore about the Orlesian Chantry, the Tivinter Imperium's Chantry, the Wardens / the Arch Demons, and makes it all so the elves gods just did everything in the games universe now. It's insulting to the people who played the past games and where invested in the games world. We as fans deserved better writing. 6. Finally who in their right minds on the writing team and in management thought wiping out the entire south were all the past games took place, and not showing it happening was an okay thing to do?! What the actual heck. I'm honestly at a loss of words. As a Dragon Age fan who has played each of the past games multiple times this was an insult to me. This is not my Dragon Age, clearly the studio dose not care about what made them popular with fans anymore. I almost feel like the developers owe me an apology for having me play this. I have zero faith Mass Effect 4 will be okay after this torture session pretending to be a therapy session I was just put through.

[@HeirofAether]

Sorry you didn't enjoy it try not to speak on behalf of the entire DA community, please 🙏 more than a few of us found it to be one of the better titles of the series. Also, not to be rude, but I seriously doubt you did this game 100 percent and still be this vitriolic about it, just seems weird and kinda toxic to me. Hope you can move on to things you actually enjoy instead of clinging to negativity 😊

[@sadiesayed2916]

I agree 100%. it’s about story, the lore, the characters and dialogue . Art styles can change, trying something new isn’t always a bad thing. But don’t touch the already established story threads of the previous titles or existing world states. They did a huge disservice to a lot of fans who were hoping for more. Following on from what you said about the chantry, you’re right, what even happened to Andraste? Why couldn’t we even see a cutscene related to the south? I understand it can be a good standalone game for some people, but I don’t think it respected the previous titles at all. It should have been a spin off in my personal opinion.

[@sadiesayed2916]

@@HeirofAetherI understand your point of view, and respect it, but please also respect critical opinions. I wouldn’t call it clinging to negativity as you put it, more so for some of us fans who felt very disappointed in what we received. I’m happy you enjoyed the game, but some of us didn’t unfortunately and we are allowed to express that. We also shouldn’t resort to accusing others of not completing the game just because they strongly disliked it. This series is near and dear to a lot of people so it’s understandable why some would feel as the commenter above did. Again glad you and others enjoyed the game, I hope BioWare can keep fans such as yourself happy, but for the ones who aren’t we’ll be moving on to other titles. Hope you can understand 😊.

[@АлексейЛогинов-ж1ц]

The fact is, the world has changed since we were kids playing these old bioware games. Complaining about Veilguard is like complaining about modern popular music not being Led Zeppelin.

[@jkuhl2492]

"Rook feels like Commander Shepard" probably because Veilguard feels like what ME2 might be if ME2 was a DA game.

[@zaryaswife]

it's pretty blatant with the focus being on getting the team together and needing to complete their loyalty quests. Anyone who has played ME2 knows this.

[@t.s.1156]

That and the ending were my biggest disappointments, it felt like a mass effect game and not a dragon age game

[@geckosarecute6304]

It so does feel like that but a much more poor way of doing it in my opinion. MA2 was dark and you had the options to be bad ish. especially the loyalty missions. But it sooo does feel like a fantasy way of MA2. A suicide mission ending companion loyalty quests ect. but the lack of choice and darkness. To even ONLY having 2 companions in the party which is not normal for DA

[@hobosapiensSinceShadowMoses]

I mean only the right foot of Shepard. Rook is a psychologist for most companions...

[@Cresc3n1]

​@@hobosapiensSinceShadowMoses yeah try playing renegade rook 😅

[@MrFightmonster118]

I love your point about Dragon Age being about the WORLD first and foremost. The story and designs change but it all revolves around the Dragon Age WORLD

[@hobosapiensSinceShadowMoses]

Problem is veilguard got barely politics, religions and that post credit scene just alt F4 three previous games... DA is dead.

[@BonusEggs4Sale]

A world constantly changing. It's not a series for those who don't embrace constant change.

[@BonusEggs4Sale]

@@hobosapiensSinceShadowMoses eyeroll

[@hobosapiensSinceShadowMoses]

@@BonusEggs4Sale Constant change needs solid writing not wrapping up everything around Evanuris, plus a deep state Thedas and just erase all you have done in the south... It's not Fallout here, i love nihilism and cynism but DA deserved better, our heroes deserved better, i dont give a single dawn about half of the new ones, they can die, fine. This game not planescape when most of the time feels like a tumblr fan fic dialogue first. I dont expect Disco elysium level or Planescape but this is just mid at best.

[@eliesaad]

If by world you mean the lore, then even that changed and is not consistent throughout the games. But if by world you mean the geography of Thedas, then sure I guess?

[@Baytuh]

As a newer Dragon Age fan played Origins and 2 for the first time a few months ago i get a lot of the frustrations. Some of the changes i don't mind like art style and combat cause i think combat has been pretty meh to bad in most of them but yeah i get it. Its the Halo argument all over again i personally love the newer changes but understand why people don't. But i do think most of it is EA's fault given their track record.

[@kamranahmed5366]

Dragon Age keeps changing - for the worse! For me the series has been going downhill after each game since Origins. I would have preferred DA to evolve, rather than keep changing. Keeping consistent is what made the ME trilogy so good.

[@Ian_Moon42]

Speak for yourself man - I really hated the combat in Origins and think at least in terms of pure second-to-second gameplay Dragon Age has only gotten better over time. Also, I don't think you're remembering Mass Effect very well. Go play the original game and Mass Effect 2 right after. ME2 was a pretty significant departure from ME1 in it's gameplay and you'll see that very clearly.

[@geekerellauwu]

seeing some of the things from the artbook hurts even more that the true story that they had wanted to tell wasn't what we got as the finished project..

[@maia_beans]

I struggle to admit this as a long time DA fan and apologist, but I am so deeply disappointed by this game. You are right, in that what makes fans love the DA franchise is the story, lore and characters. However, taking away style, gameplay and even the broader story of Veilguard, I feel like those 3 core elements that we love were disrespected. I have no real complex feelings on any of Veilguard's characters. They all feel like they're reading off a script. Like their stories were crafted to seem complex, but are only really puddle deep. Their performances are ok, but nowhere near the incredible performances we've been getting since DAO, maybe due to the casting director? (that vid of her not knowing who zevran is haunts my mind). Plus, they attempt to create squabbles and romances between the companions, but those are so lukewarm and get resolved so fast? As for the lore, we get no real insight into mages/templars, elf racism (except for one or two comments on the part of davrin and bellara), slavery, etc. In the art book, they emphasized being able to see slaves being paraded by their masters, but there was nothing like that in freaking MINRATHOUS. All the social commentary is gone here, the thing that gave depth to the world, that made you want to pick a side, to debate for hours, gone. And the lore. They added so many red herrings here. Antaam separating from the Qun and allying with MAGICAL GODS ? Taash's mom knowing Taash is her child + firebreather somehow, and wanting to separate them from the Qun even though she seems a devout follower? Nevarra being just a quiky little city of the dead, even though the way Cassandra described it, they care more about nobility and the dead to even look at the living? The crows are also cute and friendly now, even though they buy children, torture and kill them, then indoctrinate and manipulate them? Kal Sharok was done so dirty. We barely saw anything. The dwarves there had no different appearance, no grudge against those who left them to die horribly. It seemed the writers were scared of creating a world with evil, with nuance, with bad things in it, or at least of showing that aspect of the world. But here's some Venatori!! Whose leader died 10 years ago. Guess they're still around for some reason. And also, the fact that the most important Thedosian lore drops were relegated to a collectible quest and 5 narrated murals? I felt so robbed. I really would not have cared a single bit about the artstyle, the crpg, the gameplay, if they had truly respected the world we have fallen in love with over the years, then I would have loved this game. But that disrespect is what disappointed me. Deeply.

[@padmen3976]

I couldn’t have said it any better myself. DA:V disappointed me greatly for these reasons.

[@HeirofAether]

Disrespect? What are you talking about? They disrespect nothing in this game, or at least that's how it looks like from my perspective.

[@nolwetar424]

I started with Dragon Age way back in 2009 with Origins and it immediately became one of my top games. Throughout the years, I loved every single game that came after, but each of them in a different way. Before the Veilguard came out, I was cautious at first as I was worried about the changes in the studio. As the release date was approaching, I was getting more and more excited for the game. But when the game actually released, I was so blown away by it. I am so hooked by it and I cannot put it away. I remember how much Dragon Age 2 was criticized back when it was released. They even cancelled the Exalted March DLC because of it. But despite its many problems, audiences found their way to the game, realizing how good the story was. Veilguard does have its problems, I'm sure, and it's good to point them out. But if people accepted the game for what it is, including the changes, and stopped focusing on the problems so much, I think they would have excellent time with it. I genuinely think Veilguard is a great game despite everything... Oh and speaking of the music, I actually love Veilguard's music so much, even more than the previous games. I find it so hauntingly beautiful sometimes. With these futuristic, almost sci-fi vibes coming into traditional fantasy - that's such a unique spin that makes it all the more interesting to me.

[@Alonelythoughts]

Tbh i really liked the Mark of The Assassin DLC from DA2 (and it's clear the tone they were going for the next game), too bad we don't get the Exalted March DLC

[@otherworldlyfiction]

Out of curiousity, I looked up some old reviews of Dragon Age 2. People have a fondness for the game now (myself included), but the original reviews were SCATHING. One reviewer called the game "uninspired," citing "ghastly dialogue," a weak opening, and disappointing or boring characters as their complaints. The reviewer couldn't stand how much Carver whined, Anders and Merrill were hit and miss, and they felt that Hawke's choices didn't matter. Ironically, many of the critiques levelled towards Dragon Age 2 in 2011 were the EXACT same as those now being levelled against Veilguard (they even critisized Aveline's voice acting, in much the same way some have complained about Neve's). Plus, some of their other complaints, like the lack of exploration, were things Veilguard improved on. Funnily enough, the reviewer complained that Hawke, with their limited dialogue wheel, came across as unnecessarily rude, and now people are complaining that Rook is too polite. I can see Veilguard getting it's own cult following, once the dust has settled, in the way Dragon Age 2 did - especially since some of the early reviews against 2 actually make some of those against Veilguard look nice.

[@FreeTJ]

I’m not gonna lie, the biggest feature that was taken away was the utilization of the companions in combat, the best moments was clutching a fight with 1 companion in the past games

[@pixelmafiaxbl]

Origins is still my favorite Dragon Age. I don’t know if it’s because I think Alastair’s romance is the best romance in any DA game ever, or if it’s because I first encountered DA:Origins when I was depressed and this was the game that provided me an escape. I didn’t care for the combat but the characters, world building and the overall tone of the story just did it for me. Fast forward to The Veilguard, I do love it, probably even more than Inquisition, but the lack of moral diversity is a glaring issue for me. Rook and all their companions are so nice and politically correct, even in dialogue if you choose an edgier option it’s still “very nice” and often what you choose is so far from what’s actually spoken. It makes it difficult for me to put myself in Rooks shoes, moreso than any previous DA protagonist, they feel like their own person whereas the Warden (along with Hawke & the Inquisitor) felt like an extension of myself.

[@IronCrone]

I’m with you. Alistair is peak romance in a game. It was just done so lovingly. My first play though though ended tragically as I refused Morrigan’s dark ritual and Alistair killed himself no matter what to save the Warden. It was quite the surprise for me in a game and quite formative for myself as far as shaping my tastes in games. Morrigan’s romance is also really well done across Origins and Inquisition as a world state if you’ve never given that one a whirl, I’d say go for it. I personally have a soft spot for the warden as I felt the most connection to that character. The Inquisitor is a close second, I think because we got to craft them as a person and the choices we made along their journeys really shaped them into something special in our own worlds.

[@pixelmafiaxbl]

@ I agree, Morrigan’s romance is handled beautifully too, even Zevran I have a soft spot for because he just approaches you so differently from the other companions. I’ve seen people suggest we connect more with the Warden because they’re not voiced, and maybe there’s some truth to that. I only hope if we get another Dragon Age in the future, that we’re given more diversity in dialogue & how we can react to situations instead of it feeling one dimensional.

[@otherworldlyfiction]

To me, Hawke also feels like their own person, in that his voice and family connections are distinct, but you still shape who he is, which, in my opinion, makes for a good balance of both approaches (having a fleshed out character, but one you still influence). I love all the games, but Origins has a special place in my heart and the romance with Alistair is easily the best out of every romance in the series (at least for me) because of how fleshed out it is.

[@danielleharden5865]

I finished my Veilguard playthrough last night, and I think you hit every criticism I had with it. Dragon Age is my favorite franchise. I enjoyed Veilguard for what it was (minus the secret ending), and there were some great moments like Weisshaupt, seeing what happened to the Minrathous or Treviso, choosing which companion does what in the last few quests. I also like the semi-openness of it. My overall criticism is that I felt like nothing I did in the previous games mattered all. Overall I felt like it was missing what made me fall in love with dragon age. DA2 is my favorite dragon age because I just love the tension between different characters and groups throughout the game. I absolutely adore Inquisition because it has my favorite companions and NPCs, and I loved the exploration but felt it was TOO open and padded out to make it that way . I think my perfect dragon age would have the story and grittiness from DAO and DA2, smaller maps that still encourage exploration like Veilguard, with companions and NPCs like Inquisition

[@omnipenne9101]

3 years is too short for what the devs wanted Dreadwolf/Veilguard. Screw EA.

[@jlx8439]

I agree with most of this! Overall, I had fun and don't regret buying it, but it does leave a bit of a off putting feeling at the end, after you realize the entire game could be as good as act 3, with all the missing opportunities you discover in the art book. Also, romances in veilguard felt so lacking? I romanced Harding and was expecting companions to talk about it, to tease Rook or whatever. But all I got was literally 2 lines about it? Only bellara and neve commented on it, on banter, then never again. It felt like Rook only mattered on cutscenes, which somehow made me feel a bit excluded during party banter. Lastly, I wish they had more care and nuance with important and sensitive topics like taash's story. Really don't know what happened there sometimes :/ one last edit: (spoilers) idk why in act 3 everyone acts so happy that "we didnt lose much and things are going okay"? hello, did they forgot about the fallen companion? in my case, davrin and assan 😭 like. that happens a lot, things don't get mentioned far ahead just like the romance. it just happens, passed, and that was it

[@lavellan2312]

I also felt like the lack of care for that companion in act three (for me it was the other one) was disrespectful. [SPOILER] * * * * * * Harding had been romancing Taash, and even Taash's reaction felt weirdly calm and quick. It felt like there was more focus on the one Elgar'nan took, and I don't mean focus as in "we can still save that person," but saying things like, "we must avenge [companion]"

[@jlx8439]

@lavellan2312 wait so taash didnt even say anything about harding dying or did they say it but in a dismissive way? either way thats so odd :/

[@lavellan2312]

@@jlx8439 they commented and expressed some kind of hurt feeling about it, but it just felt very brief and surface level to me.

[@HeirofAether]

Did we play the same game? When Harding died in my first playthrough, everyone (especially Taash) was really depressed and and a lot more reaction than previous companions do in older games.

[@sadiesayed2916]

@@HeirofAetherI agree with the comments above, companion reactions seemed brief and surface level in DAV. All the other titles managed to do this brilliantly, DAV fell short. However I’m willing to be proved wrong, please can you provide an example of previous companions for your argument? I’d like to see it from your perspective, because I think the only characters who expressed the most in this game (excluding Varric and Solas) were Emmerich, Assan and Manfred.

[@davidradach9311]

“Change, not evolution”. Very well said. Long post, folks. Like a lot of people, I started with Origins. It was so good I’m a fan of the game and series to this day. I actually played Origins first, then went to Mass Effect on merit alone. To emphasize the point, ME definitely evolved over time. Full disclosure? I do like Veilguard for what it is. I’m a fan of action games like Zelda and Horizon: Zero Dawn and Forbidden West, so for me, the combat is a lot of fun. Personally, when I play Dragon Age, however, I’d much rather see it have and maintain its own identity, not follow games like God of War and Mass Effect! If I want to play those games I certainly will. That said, Veilguard has some exceptional moments that are already making me look forward to a second play-through (I haven’t completed the game yet!), moments that are very much like Dragon Age: a side mission involving a possessed well and the siege of Weisshaupt. There are definitely things to enjoy here. I will lament on the wasted opportunity they had with Taash, though. In my mind, BioWare kicked up a lot of needless controversy here, and here’s why: The Qun has a very rigid social/gender based structure. They could have easily had Taash challenge Qun society, possibly even change it. What a story that could have been! I do hope BioWare continues on, Dragon Age too, but I also hope they regain their respect for their fans. As much as I’m liking Veilguard, there is too much of ‘we’ll do what *we* want, not what the *fans* want’.

[@lindslaurd]

The biggest issue to me was that it felt like BioWare couldn't decide if they wanted to make a sequel or soft reboot. The story was a direct sequel to Inquisition, but everything else felt like a reboot. The cameos were so shallow and dissatisfying, and the fact that we couldn't carry any choices over made it so it didn't even feel like our own world. It also felt like the parts that were integral to Dragon Age's world in previous games weren't even present. Religion, race relations, issues regarding magic, none of these issues were there. It was like they didn't want to bog the game and story down with lore for new players which I can understand, but then we were left with something that barely felt like Dragon Age at all. What do you mean there was barely any distinction between city elves and Dalish elves? What do you mean a new player could play as mage Rook and not realize that in the majority of the continent they would be hated and feared? But then, the main story directly continues Solas's story in DAI, and they brought the inquisitor back. But at the same time, they didn't want the inquisitor to have too big of a role because new players wouldn't care about them and it might be confusing. But then that left returning players like me honestly, very dissatisfied, because I wanted more solavellan, and I wanted Lavellan to have a bigger role in Solas's final outcome. Also, with regards to companions, none of them had interesting character arcs or opinions relating to the broken world they lived in. What made Vivienne so interesting was the way the world shaped her as a character. Same with Solas, Fenris, Anders, Alistair, Cassandra, Wynne: all of these are characters whose personality, flaws, and beliefs are shaped by their background, which meant that if you threw them in a room together, you inevitably got fascinating banter because the characters had such strong identities and beliefs that you could tell who would clash and who wouldn't. To me... the new companions in Veilguard didn't really feel like their personality and stories were inexorably tied to the world. You could pluck Taash's story from Veilguard and set it in a completely different world, swap out a few things, and it would be the same. But for Anders' story to work, it requires meticulous worldbuilding and understanding of Thedas. It is, to its core, tied to the world of Thedas. Yes, you can of course find parallels to the real world with Anders' story, but it still requires to be told in the world of Thedas for it to truly make sense. That's not to say the Veilguard companions are necessarily bad, but it was disappointing to me that none of them had the same spice as the previous games' companions, and I really think it comes down to the fact that their arcs focused more on generic human experience and didn't tie into the world that created those stories. Sorry this is so long. I'm honestly gutted because I was so excited for Veilguard and I went in thinking it was likely going to be my favorite game of the series, and when I was done, I just felt... letdown. It's especially hard because I feel like it was so close to being perfect in a lot of ways, but unfortunately missed the mark. With a handful of small tweaks I feel like it could be elevated from a 7.5/10 to 9/10, easily, and with some more significant changes, a clear 10/10. Anyway. I'll stop rambling. Thanks for making this video ❤

[@quintyss1290]

I agree totally with your second paragraph. Well said.

[@DanSantiagos]

It's hard to be a Dragon Age fan. You are always excited to go back to thedas but you also need time to get used to what the new game is. And right now, I don't know if I'm excited to play the next one anymore.

[@greennoridragon]

I feel very similarly. I also was introduced to Dragon Age via Inquisition, and after I finished Veilguard yesterday, I just wanted to go back to play Inquisition again. The credits rolled, I got the "secret" ending, and I said...that's it? That's all? I was hoping for Inquisition-style epilogues, slides showing more than...what we got (which felt more like the ending sequence of fighting the Endsinger in Final Fantasy XIV, not an actual "after the fall of the gods..." sequence like I expected. My bad.) I'm most upset with the marketing and world building, I think. They told us that this was a direct sequel to Inquisition. It technically followed Inquisition and resolved the end of Trespasser, but everything else related felt like it was in a fog of "we don't want to deal with your previous choices, sorryyyyyyyy." I get that they couldn't account for even half the choices we made in previous games (and I spent hours working on a custom world state, reading lore on Origins and 2 to make choices, and was halfway into my Inquisition run when I learned the choices wouldn't matter), but why do we care if the Inquisitor wanted to redeem or condemn Solas at the end of Trespasser when she's just gonna be OMG SOLAS WAS MY BFF regardless? BioWare folks also told us they didn't want our past choices to result in a cameo or a one-liner...but all I got from my Inquisitor choices was one codex letter from Josephine. Dorian couldn't even say her name. Is that not a cameo or a one-liner? What happens if your Inquisitor dated Dorian? Is he going to act any differently at all? We were told the romance was amazing, omg it's rated M for Mature for a reason, wink wink nudge nudge. It wasn't. It felt very "the world's about to end and I don't want to die a virgin" to me. You couldn't talk to them anytime, but they definitely talked to each other; I got a bigger kick out of watching my girlfriend get Harding and Taash together than I did romancing Taash myself (and was very disappointed when, when my girlfriend made the decision she did, Taash...said very little). I felt like Rook was on the outside looking in the vast majority of the time, and that's not a fun feeling. We were told this game was for fans and newcomers alike, and I think they straddled the line far too much. I don't have my ear to the ground on this, but I can only imagine that the game's refusal to explain who the Venatori and Antaam are results in some fans assuming they're nothing more than bad guys from Minrathous and bad guys from the Rivain area. The game doesn't want to explain lore to you, but expects newcomers to just know what the Qun is. Running around Minrathous, you'd know there's plenty of poor people there, and Dorian is fighting slavery in the Magisterium...but where are the slaves? The talk of slavery? Anything? Also, who are the guards in Dock Town, and why is one of Neve's outfits just a color swap of theirs? Shadow Dragons are not guards posted outside the Swan. Hell, they're hardly fighting slavery. Vallaslin are ignored; no one talks about how Irelin is wearing a vallaslin for June. No one grapples with "oh no, I have ancient elven slavery symbols on my face," or attempts to recontextualize vallaslin for current day elves. They're just tattoos. All the companions had personal quests the game very strongly encouraged us to do. And I loved them. But Rook was left out, again. We choose an origin for them in character creator. Each faction has sort of benched Rook for causing trouble. Rook spends so much time trying to get the team to resolve their past issues...does Rook have no past issues? Could we not have had a faction quest to resolve or something? I know there's the art book too, but...I don't want to learn more about what we COULD HAVE had. I'm sad enough, thanks so much. The ending already feels like, "ooh, want to know more, check out Scout Harding: The Heart of the Titan, coming March 2027 to a comics shop near you!" I'm here to play a game, not a playable advertisement for other DA media. Veilguard answered no questions for me; we just have Inquisition questions AND Veilguard questions now. All in all, I feel like the game was made by people who love Dragon Age, but aren't intimately involved in its lore. Which I know is factually incorrect, but that's how it reads, to me; like fanfiction. Really nice, fluffy fanfic, you're just reading it to feel vaguely good and heroic and not grapple with or explore anything complex. And maybe I just have to engage with it on that level.

[@Coogman3]

Hearing inquisitions music in the background is giving me chills

[@liyannah]

right? The music in veilguard was so underwhelming, it really pisses me off 😂

[@jstappin]

I could not get invested into veilguard. I got invested in all the others, but this was a massive step back.

[@reve_rse]

Dragon age inquisition was my first game too, and I did the same thing, played through it all, but Origins captured my heart in a way none of the other entries ever did, even though the graphics are bad, the combat is bad, and it's out of date. It just has so much heart and the storytelling is so intricate

[@LeJonathan]

Fair take. I wish the series stayed consistent from game to game cause now it's gotten to the point where it's alienating hardcore fans enough to attack and gatekeep new fans from joining even though the game is perfectly fine, it's just different from what you'd expect from Dragon Age. Same thing happened to Mass Effect and that's why I didn't get into the series until a couple years after Andromeda, people just kept telling me "don't bother, it's dead". Bioware's biggest enemy is Bioware's need to trendchase constantly.

[@ultimatedespairgamer6722]

It also doesn’t help that some fans are trying to gaslight ppl And say oh dragon age has always been this way

[@theobell2002]

@@ultimatedespairgamer6722 Always has been what? Dragon Age has changed from game to game. That's not "gaslighting", it's the truth.

[@ultimatedespairgamer6722]

@ when someone complains about anything in veilgaurd, some ppl will find some one off scene or example from a previous game and claim it’s always been like that and that veilgaurd hasn’t changed much from other DA games

[@SabiJD]

​@@theobell2002Actually, yhe culture of writing hasn't hugely changed over the series - until now. I'm no fan of edgelord nonsense, or allergic to 'banter' and snark (I've been a huge Whedon fan since Buffy), but Veilguard's writing is just tonally off for the series. I never want to see the word 'cool' in the series again, for example... I've not finished it yet, but I am 50hrs in, and so often it can feel like a spiritual successor to Fable II or Kingdoms Of Amalur. Those are games I enjoyed, but that is not Dragon Age.

[@64chrom]

Overall Veilguard gave me more good than bad, but the bad parts really stand out ( like Antaam who are supposedly be fearful of magic were put in alliance with f... venatori and Evanuris who are even worse mages)

[@dostwood5103]

Even though I do disagree vastly about Veilguard, I respect your view but I vastly disagree on many points. Mainly on the RPG elements. While the characters and story is top priority for me, I feel like the RPG mechanics are just as important for making me feel like my choices and shaping up my character matters. I feel like the large amount of choices you can make are closely tied with the RPG mechanics. I want to see a return to form, something like Origins again. I love Origins, DA2, and Inquisition is great in its own right. I started with Origins back in 2022 and I loved it. However, BioWare will never be the same again for me. I’m able to tolerate the change from each Dragon Age game just as long as the tactical combat is still there, the writing is still good, the characters are still well written and believable, and if it doesn’t retroactively ruin the previous games like the epilogue slide secret ending to Veilguard. I think it’s okay to enjoy Veilguard and I respect that you like it. No one should attack each other for liking it or disliking it. But for me personally, Veilguard fails in every single aspect. The dialogue, characters, choices, customization, art style, story, lore and world building, and even the combat. Arguably the most egregious for me is how they don’t allow you to transfer your choices from the previous three games. However, despite my differences in opinion, I can fully agree with you that Dragon Age changes its identity too much. I can tolerate many differences, but i will lay out MY perfect Dragon Age game like you proposed at the end of the video. My perfect Dragon Age: Tone: Origins Dialogue: Origins RPG Mechanics: Origins Art Style: Inquisition (but the Darkspawn should have the same look as Origins did) Combat: Any of the first three games, honestly. Just as long as it’s not like Veilguard. Music: Origins Romance: The intimate romances of DA2 was the best in my opinion. Protagonist: While we should make our own characters, I loved shaping Hawke’s personality the most.

[@sadiesayed2916]

I agree. I’ve seen some comments not understand the utter disappointment some of us fans feel regarding this game, with some saying we have been afflicted with misplaced nostalgia, but I don’t think they understand. Your comment for me is exactly how I feel about the game. And as you have said, instead of fighting amongst ourselves, we need to respect each other’s opinions. I for one think DAV should have been a spin off, it seems like a spin off in all ways. It should not have been a continuation if you can’t even upload world states/have major decisions carry over. It disrespects the lore and your time in playing the other titles (yes I’m referring to that absolutely horrendous secret ending, it takes way any sort of nuance)

[@bareloto]

very well said! i hope bioware listens. (Plus I am still pissed with Veilguard = YES i got closure after tressapasser and I am grateful. But god there are severe issues you mention already and WRITTING - grrrrr - like GRRRRRR bioware is nothing without writing) also for mew inquisition is my fav. so my favorite will be dragon age inqusition scale and exploration? debates of spirituality and duty with the tone of seriousness for Dragon age origins. ( I mean inqu. was fine as well... but maybe a bit too safe? )

[@Monochrome_11]

Fingers crossed that the comment section will be respectful and self aware

[@VLarraechea]

The issue with the franchise is exactly that, the lack of a proper identity. It started as dark fantasy, moved on to become almost high fantasy with Inquisition, and now it has way too many wannabe comedic tones. The dark fantasy has been taken out. The renegade protagonist has been removed for the sake of being friendly, and being unable to have conflict between the main characters. Once more, completely different from Origins, and even 2. Even Inquisition let you tell your party members off, disagree with them. I agree though, I was expecting Inquisition 2, as well, being its direct sequel. But nope, and it’s even more disappointing due to that.

[@TheP1x3l]

It's definitely still very dark though. All the stuff pertaining to the Blight is properly dark.

[@mandu6665]

Lol, Origins was hardly dark, especially compared to The Witcher games that came out around the same time. People are misremembering a whooooole about Dragon Age and it's my least favorite part about this fandom. Always changing the past to fit their criticisms of the new entry.

[@aaronlaughter6471]

@@mandu6665 He means dark as in muted Browns, cause replaying DAO, my god the muted browns is everywhere.

[@jameschar4711]

Honestly just happy I got to go on an adventure with Lace Harding hopefully I’ll get to go on more.

[@BonusEggs4Sale]

DA is ABOUT change. Not just the real life changes in gameplay and tone, but the setting itself--its world and history and characters, all constantly changing. So I find nothing frustrating with the reinventions of gameplay and tone and art style as a mirror to this. My fave is DA2 but the only thing I would had found disappointing is if we had gotten a DA2 Part 2 (or DAO 2, or DAI 2, etc). Loving Veilguard.

[@reffa2858]

Inquisition was my first Dragon Age aswell. I was thinking it was going to be Inquisition 2. And it kind of was but the writing, graphics, and gameplay were something else entirely. I just wonder what the next trend will be and how it'll effect the next Dragon Age.

[@JustinWPruett]

Kala, your positivity is so wonderful. Your videos leading up to Veilguard were a big part of keeping my hype levels high. I’m 45 hours into the game now and having an amazing time. Here’s me wishing you well, and thanking you for being so awesome.

[@reeeeen8075]

My perfect Dragon Age is mostly Origins: low and grounded fantasy feel with high and dark fantasy crescendos only in the most relevant places. Complex politics. A codex written as an athropological game, not promarily by my companions. A story with decisions that feel like leaps of faith and not necessarily right or wrong answers. The option to have teeth and be very dark and morally grey as a tool against the narrative's injustices. Deeply thoughtful, complex, and emotionally driven characters, who will always choose to chase what they believe in rather than what feels right, or polite, or kind. Inquisition hits most of that, honestly, the only things missing for me are darker choices and more intimate storylines with random NPCs. But the things I'd want to take most from it are the music and artstyle. The music especially is so beautiful. I'd take its combat as a starting point and fine-tune it, using DA2's skill tree sizes as the maximum size. Skills should be impactful. I'd take the hair tech (not styles) from Veilguard and the unavoidable companion deaths and tragic fates. I'd take its accessibiltiy options. Everything else, though I loved the game, I think is unfortunately the weakest in the series. Finally, I'd take DA2's inevitable tragedy and family. Not necesarily the protagonists, but the complex and sensitive family dynamics in DA2 are so unique and well done. Carver is one of the most memorable DA characters for me because of his friction with Hawke, the depth of his love and loyalty for his family, the pure scrappiness of the Hawke's and their fierceness for each other. The ways that they hurt each other in the way only family can. I need to see that back. Shathann was very close to filling that role in Veilguard, and as a result she's my favorite NPC in the game by far.

[@sarahself3604]

100% agree. Not sure if they will get a chance at another game, but if so I really hope they learn from this.

[@kikiscoven]

I’ve only played a bit of Origins and now am at about 60+ hours with Veilguard. BUT, I’m a long time Sims fan haha. From watching your videos, it seems like Dragon Age is suffering the exact same thing the Sims went through - trying to reinvent the wheel and change what was already good. I am LOVING Veilguard, and to me it mirrors the Sims 4’s introduction to the franchise. Sims 4 was the perfect game for newcomers (as I feel Veilguard has been for me) - but basically insulting to Sims 1, 2 & 3 fans. It’s incredibly interesting to think about how a corporation’s goals, leadership, sales ,etc - truly influences whole generations of games. Love hearing your thoughts and reviews! 💖

[@quintyss1290]

I expected Sims 4 to be a Sims 2 remaster ^_^. All I do in Sims 4 is build.

[@otherworldlyfiction]

I thought of Sims 4 too! Kala mentioned how Veilguard was going to be a live service game, and it was the same for Sims 4. They ultimately pivoted, but the foundation of both games was already thrown off. I enjoy both Sims 4 and Veilguard, but I do have a sense, especially after learning about the existence of the art book, that development was rushed. It sounds like they wanted to include a lot more (like an exploration of Tevinter's slavery problems or the ramifications for the elves) but ran out of time.

[@kikiscoven]

@ yesss!!!! I feel like this is a classic case of creativity being restrained by corporate

[@gun2334trx]

Hopefully Veilguard is just Dragon Age's Andromeda. Mass Effect going back to its roots after a lighthearted litle, Dragon Age should do the same.

[@KhaosRox]

I fell in love with Dragon Age Origins, over time I learned to appreciate Dragon Age 2 for its strengths, and even though I find the world of Dragon Age Inquisition the most beautiful, I will always miss Origins and Kirkwall. Dragon Age the Veilguard has nothing to offer other than beautiful backgrounds and an empty shell of what was once a beautiful world. I'm not angry, just disappointed.

[@hardrockmusickid]

Yeah, the games are so different, a good story with wonderful characters is what we have to latch on to, so when many people are rejecting Veilguard's story, it stings a lot more. Personally, I want a non-voiced protagonist, but I doubt Bioware would do that again. In feel like in Origins and other games where the protagonist is voiceless, I feel like the kind of person I get to be is much more varied. I've started to role my eyes a bit with voiced protagonists because role playing has to take a backseat and I'm starting to like it less.

[@OfficiallyJewls]

Honestly, my perfect DA game would be just like yours. It's true, DA should really focus on what it wants to be and what it does best from each game of the series. Only time will tell what the devs decide to do with DA5

[@lauraroberts7182]

I haven't finished Veilguard, so I can't give a full opinion on it yet. But for me personally, the tone and writing of Veilguard is what feels most off for me. Thedas also just feels a bit sanitized overall, issues such as racism, slavery, and classism just seem to be brushed over, and I agree that Veilguard lacks the same moral ambiguity the other games had. It's also so frustrating that it explicitly goes out of its way to avoid any references to past decisions that you made in the games. I'm still having fun with Veilguard, but it's not exactly the game I wanted.

[@EloyBushida]

I think the second best part of Dragon Age as a franchise is how different each game is from the others. Keeps them fresh if you do a replay. The best thing is obviously just the setting and lore itself. Also I think the art style has gotten vastly better with each release.

[@MarcParisTV]

Well so far so good for me on Dragon age the Veilguard (roughly 25 hrs). I like the global proposal, pretty refreshing.

[@debaserr567]

My perfect DA game would have the RP freedom and combat of Origins, the companion interactions and art style of 2, and the epic story and lore of Inquisition.

[@jamskinner]

It wasn’t in development for only 3 1/2 years. The game clearly still has aspects of its multiplayer roots. The combat is clearly based off of ME: andromedas multiplayer. Plus I am fairly sure VO work was done even before Covid hit.

[@stefan9inter]

Origins with better graphics and past game choices carrying forward would be my preferred type of da style game.

[@zerokool327]

After finishing Veilguard and having some time to reflect, The game was a lot of fun. The story was great and the combat mechanics were a huge upgrade even though it's not a fair comparison to previous games due to the gap in development. DAI was my first dragon age experience and then I also went back to the previous games. The story for me is what makes Dragon Age... I can't lie I was also expecting Veilguard to be DAI part 2. It wasn't what i was expecting. The non-human characters looked more beautified and less rugged than previous games. All of the non-human characters almost look perfect. I also miss Skyhold, not saying the lighthouse wasn't cool but Skyhold was just awesome. Visually, the game is beautiful. Treviso is my favorite city in the game and I can spend hours roaming alarthan forrest. The music was good but it didn't feel like anything that came before. Everytime i was playing I would hear some of the DAI music in my head, it just feels lore accurate. The game was good but it felt a little bit like Mass Effect 2 on steroids with the companion quest. I felt that Veilguard had almost way too many companion quest and it took away from the main story line. I get it that you have to bring their level up high and you'd want to make sure you unlock their veilguard status. everytime you'd go back to the lighthouse, oh look another companion wants to chat or send me on a quest. It was a "hey let's forget about the world ending and spend an insane amount of time helping our companions better themselves and find their place in the world and then we can stop the evil douchebags." The romance options were cool BUT it just felt unfinished or not polished I should say. The relationships with the inquisitor and cassandra or josephine or solas felt passionate...in Veilguard, it was just cute moments and silly flirting. Harding was probably my favorite romance. Bellara was wayyyyy to similar to merill. anyway, all the kissing scenes just felt so generic and bland. I will stand on this hill though, the game needed WAY MORE SOLAS... Dude was barely in the game. +visuals +cinematic scenes +/- character creation could have been better + having the inquisitor come back with their original V.A. was amazing. Part of me wishes they had more lines -armor sucked IMO, I missed creating armor and changing the colors -romance was meh (harding i still love you) plus the final romance scenes were better in ME2 and than this game... -negative dialogue choices didn't really have a negative affect which sucked -lighthouse was meh but i get it, we were in the fade +combat was great, love the pause and select different attacks from your party mates for a sick combo -emerich was boring imo +manfred was great the game left me wanting more... I Wish there was more ties to inquisition but I loved that this game brought harding as one of the companions and she filled in the story gaps for rook. The game did a good job at recapping the events of solas' story, everything we found out during the trespasser DLC.

[@itsjacobj]

This discussion of Veilguard in comparison to other DA games reminds me of conversations surrounding Fire Emblem Engage and how different it is in relation to other FE games, namely the narrative-focused, more realism-leaning Three Houses. And I feel like my feelings for Veilguard are the same as Engage: it may not be like the one(s) I loved in the past, but it does what it sets out to do well while still connecting to the previous entries in ways that intrigue me. And, much like Engage, I love Veilguard in its own ways, ways that are different to its predecessors. It could be different, potentially better and more cohesive with said predecessors, but it still takes me where I want to go and gives me what I want out of it. So I definitely see where you’re coming from with cohesive feels for the series, going back to what fans want, providing a true identity. And I agree to an extent. That said, I also know I’m happy with what’s here, and I just feel like there’s room for both to be true at the same time (not saying you don’t think that, just me stating because I’ve encountered people who feel like both can’t be true) Edited to add: I really like your conceptualization of your perfect Dragon Age, especially the parts you pulled from Veilguard. Couldn’t have laid it out better

[@jvanh407]

You’re absolutly right, as a fan of FE and DA this feels like the same discussion that happend with Engage. And tough I prefer the older titles in both franchises, I do love Veilguard (and Engage) in its own ways aswell. While I don’t necessarily have a problem with it, the franchise as a whole feels kind of disjointed to me. It definitly improved in some parts, I for one love the GOW 2018 style combat in Veilguard 😅. But the worldbuilding itself feels really toned down (like the racism against elves is an example that comes to mind). I hope going forward the “darker” tones in the worldbuilding will be back, ironically the same goed for FE (gameplay wise Engage is great, story wise I prefer the darker story of most games before it like Three Houses)

[@stefemp]

I'll be honest, I really struggle to agree that the story is in line with Inquisition. The lack of building up to the big moments and the shallowness of character development in Veilguard really has been disappointing. I wasn't bothered about the combat changes or art style, all I was hoping for was strong character development and meaningful choices and Veilguard for me at least failed in that department unfortunately.

[@Tixmix]

When I think of Dragon Age the first thing that comes to mind is the people cheering me on when I walked towards the final confrontation with the archdemon. The second thing I think about is the 24 hour Esports event before the launch of Dragon Age Origins where team Canada constantly was the worst performing team, but never got eliminated during the elimination match, moral of the story bring back Dragon Age Esports.

[@AlexMercer00]

im just sad how this game turned out to be... after 90 hours I just dropped it. I don't know why... like you i dont know whats missing. but it just doesn't feel like the dragon age game that I love.

[@RandomWandrer]

I actually love the art style of veilguard. Art styles (avoiding photo realism) also allow games to be emotive and expressive without spending 3x the budget on having to look 100% real. It lets devs spend more time on polish. Have you noticed that photo realistic games release buggy (looking at you jedi survivor) or cut corners elsewhere in the experience. I wish more games would go for a style to avoid the time sink if achieving realism.

[@ChloesDragons]

This honestly perfectly summed up how I feel. Dragon age has and will always be my favourite game series for no particular reason other than it feels like home. But like you, I'm constantly mourning what it could have been. The shift in direction each time baffles me, especially when compared to Mass Effect which as always been consistent. If there is another Dragon Age game in the future. Hopefully it'll have Veilguard vibes, to keep it consistent, but find ways to improve it and develop it.

[@TheMatriuz]

Man i had like 300hours dao, 50h da2, 150h+ dai, currently 55h dav... if that says anything haha. But you have a good point, the core of dragon age barely exist, the francise changes consitantly and its not good if they what to keep the players. My opinion i lost a lot intrest in dragon age after veil, the game was okay but not dragon age for me.

[@70mavgr]

Yes, DA has indeed changed and evolved. Into something generic & sterile with no identity or flavor whatsoever. I fear for Mass Effect. If the same people, especially the writers, are working on ME then it is over.

[@Choteron3]

i dont understand why they changed the protagonist in veilguard. It would be so much cool have the inquisition companions and protagonists because we alreday had a relationship with Solas.

[@Mystrasun]

It's fascinating to watch this discussion happen in real time. In a lot of ways, this reminds me of a similar grapple that the Final Fantasy series had with its identity. When FF16 came out, there were very similar debates about what makes a Final Fantasy game with very similar conclusions drawn. Dragon Age to me is a setting first and a game second, which is both a blessing and a curse. It means we can get consistency in lore, characters and themes. It means it works as a game, as a book, as a tv series, but it also means that a company like EA can and will try to shoehorn it into whatever gaming trend is "in" right now, which is why we nearly got a live service game out of it. For me, as someone who got into Mass Effect first before Dragon Age, i actually like this current iteration of the game, though there are things I still miss from earlier titles. I hope that if we get another Dragon Age game, it's still in this direction. Part of me also thinks that part of what we have seen in Veilguard was done deliberately to aid in the development of the next Mass Effect, which is why i reckon we have seen the devs shift focus to Mass Effect almost immediately after Veilguard's release. Either way, thanks for the amazing video. I really appreciate your insights *Edit* good lord, typos

[@teakAUS]

Final Fantasy used to be about innovation. X, XII, and XIII all had vastly different combat systems. XVI sought to emulate another game's combat system. Between that and removing the party completely (THE staple of every game in the series) and I felt FFXVI had nothing positive left from the days of IV and VI. Even the setting was chasing trends with game of Thrones. At least Veilguard still has Thedas

[@quintyss1290]

I can't live without Grammarly, lol.

[@aaronlaughter6471]

What's fascinating to me, this is exactly how this fanbase acted with 2. Im not even joking, go back and watch and read reviews of 2 when it came out, and it is shocking how similar the fanbase is acting.

[@aparaitre]

Interesting to hear your thoughts!! I've been playing the games since origins and your video really reminds me of the sentiment in the community when DA2 was announced As a game developer I think it's really hard to speculate about why certain decisions were made if you weren't part of the process yourself. Sometimes things are scrapped because they aren't fun, sometimes they don't meet stakeholder expectations, sometimes the game is overscoped, or people are just burnt out from working on something for sure long, etc. I think it's good to remember that the teams, people, and tools that make games also change. In such a young industry 10 years is a really long time, you'd be surprised how many gamedevs unfortunately quit the industry before even working in it that long. I know that's a silly thing to highlight when you note that Mass Effect has stayed much more the same, but even that could play a part in why Dragon Age isn't because of how development cycles work. I'd love to go into more detail but I'm already rambling much more than the average KZbin comment Either way I also hope they're able to take in all of the constructive feedback like your own and make the next game one for the fans that feel like maybe they've been left behind :)

[@Carblesnarky]

So I have been a DA fan since Origins. I think change is just something you have to accept with the series if you want to stick with it. It doesn't bother me personally because if I want to experience any of the older titles I can do that any time I want. It's like being a fan of the Elder Scrolls. Each of those titles change quite a bit. Everyone has their favorite and often change bugs people. This sort of conversation has happened with every DA release since DA2.

[@proteuswest1084]

It sounds like you and I are pretty similar. I think there's a lot of conversation out there that suggests that the oldest fans are the most resistant to change, but I think most of us, including a lot who don't partake in these discussions, have seen it so much that we're mostly immune to a conversation we see play out multiple times over multiple years. We love it because what we love is still there, and it's still Dragon Age, no matter how much a lot of people try to convince you it's not.

[@Carblesnarky]

​@@proteuswest1084 Totally agree. Something else I think gets lost is that change isn't always bad. There are things about each of the sequels that I love. Kala's favorite is Inquisition. If Dragon Age didn't change there would never have been a game like Inquisition.

[@proteuswest1084]

​@@Carblesnarky I feel like a lot of the changes they've made for Veilguard are responsive to feedback from previous games, but also incorporates a ton of things from some of BioWare's best games, as well as the things that worked from some of the ones that weren't as well received. BioWare has always incorporated feedback from fans into their process, and sometimes they go too far when doing so, but I hoped for a happy medium with Veilguard, and in my opinion, that's what we got.

[@Carblesnarky]

@@proteuswest1084 For sure. Also it's worth acknowledging how troubled of a developed cycle Veilguard had. The issues were different but from everything we've seen it was at least as rocky as DA2's was. No doubt some sacrifices had to be made for the game to be shipped. It's honestly amazing how good of game we got considering it was originally going to be a MMO. It runs like a dream, was $60, has no microtransactions, is a complete game (no need for DLC to get the real ending like Trespasser), is offline, and doesn't even have DRM. In the end though, as time has gone on I think I actually do like the changes. It means each game has really strong voice and each experience is it's own. It also makes the passage of time and difference in place feel more meaningful.

[@TheOdMan]

There are a few things in this game that is good, but not a single thing that is great.

[@oliviamoore3426]

I miss the story and companionship and humor of origins. I’ve always wanted to continue as the warden. That said I love every game in the mass effect series

[@OctaviaAtlas]

To me, the Dragon Age identity is a fantasy setting, Thedas, featuring different protagonists and companions making interesting choices. These decisions have consequences that could be followed upon in subsequent games. In the process, characters and fans find out more lore, some of which calls earlier knowledge into question. I believe BioWare’s greatest obstacle is fan nostalgia. Having a successful series, with complex and long-lasting narratives, requires a fanbase that’s ready to embrace new adventures/protagonists/companions. This applies to Dragon Age and Mass Effect. It’s fine not to like each part of the journey, but that doesn’t automatically mean the journey wasn’t crafted well.

[@stephenvargas5806]

I mean execution on these concepts has always been what the DA sequels failed at the most. DAO is the highlight. Beyond it being an old game you really can’t change much about to to make it any better. DA2 wants to be completely different and set in a completely new area and show you what an old Slave city with wealth hierarchy is like in one unique city… then why is the city so bland… why is there nothing fun or visually striking about it. Why are Qunari invading and then next chapter we are dealing with Mages and Templars fighting. Even the DLCs need to bring back the Darkspawn to give DA2 a compelling villain. DAI takes us to Oralis but we spend 99.9% of the game in boring empty forests and deserts doing meaningless fetch quests, rinse and repeat boring filler missions. We are supposed to be in command of a huge and powerful organization on a holy war to stop the chaos but it’s really just you and a few others doing everything, the villains are once again poorly executed caricatures. Veilguard wants you to focus on factions like its Fallout and companions but the factions are borderline useless and the interactions with the companions are bland and standard simple interactions. Solas was setup to be this big bad (which I honestly always thought was lame) yet they couldn’t even keep him as the primary antagonist and had to give us these two lame elven overlords screwing around with the blight. None of the DA sequels have been masterful in living up to these “new concepts” each game hypes us up with the promises of what they say the game will be about or represent.

[@whathappened246]

Facts. Great video.

[@mauricewilks1974]

So true .Brilliant video. You've really hit the nail on the head with the consistency issue.

[@Inayaeza]

I think my perfect Dragon Age would be close to yours. I enjoy the visuals of Veilguard (except clothes textures) and Inquisition, so an hybrid of the two. Music from Origins and Inquisition. The grey and edges of the world back (thinking of the way Crows have been made nice for example, or that you can barely have harsh words), and the ability to chat whenever with the companions because they are that important. But at the same time, I liked those small quests of just hanging out or the way they move around in the Lighthouse, I'd like to keep that. I find it hard every time to mourn the protagonist. It took me a while to be okay with not playing my Inquisitor anymore in DA4 and I know I'll feel that with Rook too. It's part of the serie's identity but there's still many people who only want news of their HoF from 15 years ago, we get attached to those damn pixels. It's not m'y favorite part of the serie. (Doesn't help that every other protagonist at least had DLC to keep them around a little longer, while it seems there won't be for Veilguard. That there wasn't even an epilogue to talk a last time to companions and allies really saddened me)

[@Inayaeza]

Forgot. Veilguard's combat is also my favorite in the serie, have to give it that.

[@theobell2002]

Veilguard's music is honestly great.

[@davidsparling4395]

Agree with just about everything here. I’m glad we got *a new DA game, and I like a lot about Veilguard. But I also mourn what it could have been with a smoother and more consistent development.

[@Nemmirie]

It wouldn’t be a Dragon Age game if it wasn’t heartbreakingly disappointing but also dearly loved.

[@aaronlaughter6471]

Cheers, ill drink to that, so many grifters and lairs seem to forget that DA2 got way more hate then DAV is getting atm.

[@jackinthebox1993]

I'll bring this up every chance I get, if you want a PROPER sequel to Dragon Age origins, go play Baldur's Gate 3. Damn near everything I loved about Origins can be found here. The only difference is that it's repackaged as turn based RPG set in the world of dungeons & dragons instead... And if I'm being honest, Baldur's Gate 3 is probably the perfect Dragon Age game for modern-day audiences

[@TheArdorous]

The problem with dragon age is that it is a game that exists largely in peoples heads. Whether that's head canon or nostalgia. Irrationality towards a change in difference has always been a thing. DA2 on bsn and the old dragon age wiki boards were a hyper critical breakdown of every flaw or interpreted flaw. It was the same for inquisition as well on other fandom boards. Dragon Age is strictly a lore, world and characters. After 4 games of change hanging on to aspects of old games and being bothered by difference is inevitably a folly.

[@N7SwatWolf]

I agree with you 💯. I love all the dragon age games and my favorite being origins. The music the team the protagonist the antagonist the grey wardens loved it all. Hopefully one day not anytime soon sadly we will get a remaster for those dragon age games. Great vid kala

[@sarawitt1998]

I completely agree with this (and what pieces would make a great game). I felt so frustrated with Veilguard because it felt like it was playing it too safe. I think there was way too much focus on making the game comfortable for new players. Personally I think doing that is patronizing to the player. Knowing Veilguard was only in development for 3 1/2 years makes sense because I felt like the game (especially the writing) was not fully fleshed out. It felt like the bare bones of a dragon age game. I loved the lore reveals and I loved Act 3 but everything else fell flat. I hope BioWare will take the criticisms to heart and make a more cohesive game.

[@dr_diddy]

yh the game became stronger the longer you play it, but I shouldn't need to put in 10 hours for things to click. I think Bioware can deliver with ME5 unless they basically make the trilogy choices void like DAV basically did.

[@kalaelizabeth]

I really do hope they take criticisms for Mass Effect 5. There has been some sincerity from some people that i think could be valuable for ME5.

[@oskyys6853]

Origins is where I started but I personally loved veilguard The world and lore were beautifully done The only thing I feel it genuinely needs is an epilogue And greatswords

[@DeannaGilbert616]

I started with Origins..but I fell in love with Dragon Age in Inquisition.

[@marrmaladee]

veilguard is such an absolute slap in the face for a long term fan. the early Joplin versions of the artbook enrapture perfectly what we deserved and could've got, and we got a literal shell.

[@teakAUS]

I feel like Joplin was just planning and was all tossed out when morrison started in 2018. What was popular at the time? Fortnite and God of War. And you can definitely see the GoW influence in exploration and the Fortnite influence in character design.

[@marrmaladee]

@@teakAUS It's so tragic :/ The early versions really looked like they continued off the choices of our previous games. All that build up, world building, character development, setting the scene for all these great plots.. just for majority of them to be disregarded. Ouch.

[@virginiamurr3703]

OG Bioware fan ... been playing since BG1, BG2, and DAO. Played every DA game at launch - it's, by far, my favorite series. I have always embraced the change - loving the different stories, different protags, different companions. And, regarding style change or combat change - those just roll off my back as no big deal. To me, Dorian is still Dorian, even if his general appearance isn't the same. And, Qunari are still Qunari for the same reason. I think the incessant changes are probably harder for people who came in with DAI and fell in love with it. Even if you go backwards and play it, you still think the "ultimate" game is DAI. Not being there for the changes from the start, it will have a different impact. And, going into The Veilguard, I could see how those who came in with DAI would find the changes jarring. For me - someone who's experienced those changes with each game - I knew it would be different. My expectation was such that I didn't even think Solas would play a major role. I figured they'd kill him off in Act 1 and then jump to a new story. So, from someone who's been through each launch, I can promise you, this was the closest sequel we've ever gotten. Far more similarities than any prior game to its predecessor.

[@aaronlaughter6471]

Indeed, also being around for DA2 launch is making my laugh at how people acting with DAV, are acting like people with DA2 release. Give it a year and you will see people start to love DAV like with 2.

[@koe_balt]

As nice as inquisitions art style was - in practice the graphics did not cater to it : so I wonder if the art style change was done to make it less graphically demanding? Here’s hoping that if we get another title that the new engine could bring some of that back.

[@AlisSpark]

The new Dragon Age plays in Tevinter so technically racism against elves should be worse than ever, but it isn't. Nobody is racist in Veilguard anymore... it's just sad because it made the world feel alive and people responded to your race. Playing an elf always felt like being the underdog. To me Dragon Age is a trilogy, Veilguard is a fanfiction.

[@OdynFX]

My biggest complain with Veilguard are 2 things, art and dialogue, no matter what option I choose it always comes out happy with Rook smiling most of the time, its like choosing between hell yeah, yeah and okay. You cant be mean to people or companions. I tried making a tough Warden yet hes just happy and chill 24/7. And one more thing, Wardems potrayed as absolute idiots once again ignoring every warning given to them

[@BonusEggs4Sale]

Well that sucks for you but it's exactly how I wanted my Rook to be so. I had just chalked it up to a personality being set by your early dialogue choices a la DA2.

[@BonusEggs4Sale]

Of course the Wardens as an organization are resistant to changing their traditionally-held biases and are a bit arrogant as The Experts on the Blight. Organizations and traditions becoming corrupt or outmoded is a staple of the setting.

[@Alonelythoughts]

@@BonusEggs4Sale It doesn't make any sense though as there were big things happening like the Adamant Fortress one, and whether it's Stroud, Loghain, Alistair, or Hawke then went to Weisshaupt to report or warn them. Obviously it's been years since then, but still, It doesnt make any sense, unlike Mass Effect where the Council didnt see The Reapers until the third game.

[@errgoseven4680]

But imagine if Dragon Age VG played like Origins and looked like Inquisition. Would it really be the game that we want? I think VG almost felt like the exciting reboot to the series it could've been.

[@sadiesayed2916]

I think if it was labelled as a hard reboot, a lot of people would be hurt initially but would have understood the changes once playing. It would just be a case of knowingly playing a game that has been changed, instead of acting like it’s a worthy DA title when in reality it spat on its history. A spin off series would’ve have been much better, and more well received I think. Unfortunately it appears to be a soft reboot, and this tactic has backfired on BioWare because they have lost a lot of fans.

[@SantalynValferys]

I share your feelings. They should focus on understanding what is DA's DNA. They've tried many things. They need now to dive deeper into their strenghts, with the freedom and resources needed. I like Veilguard for what it is, a cute and unexpected revenant. But I dream of a game which would finally have all the best of the franchise.

[@seboulol]

How many developpers of Origins are still at Bioware? This is one of the reasons why every game is different. I recently watched a reporting were someone was asking "why players could not swim in that game while they could in the previous of the series?". The reason was simple, the devs responsible for it had left the company and they no longer had the skills to make it happen in the new one.

[@BaronSitzkrieg]

Late to this video but Kala, you hit the nail on the head this is everything I've been feeling

[@D_89]

Call me crazy buuuuut. I really liked veilguard. Tbf I've only played inquisition and veilguard. Also tbf I went in with low expectations haha. But its not as bad as ppl were making it out to be. Im glad I gave it a shot and didn't listen to the negative opinions. Honestly most of the games I play have had bad reviews and I'm the odd one that still likes them. For example Mortal Kombat and saints row. 😬

[@justaquietpeacefuldance]

you _are_ crazy 😊

[@D_89]

@justaquietpeacefuldance 🤪

[@justaquietpeacefuldance]

@@D_89

[@sadiesayed2916]

Glad you enjoyed the game! You’re not crazy, I think a lot of people who are disappointed are diehard fans who played the entire trilogy, as the one of the most disappointing aspects for fans like us is the fact that you couldn’t carry any of your choices from previous games, which the rest of the trilogy allowed you to do. It made the games personal for each and every one of us, and seeing a decision carry over to the next game made it feel real. That has been wiped completely hence a lot of the disappointment! So it’s not crazy at all you enjoyed it, I think it’s a good game on its own, but as a DA game it didn’t do previous titles justice apart from DA:I (arguably) it makes sense why this game didn’t disappoint fans such as yourself!

[@justaquietpeacefuldance]

@ try more like 80% of total players are disapointed, even jurnos can't shelter it from criticism no more and feeling that wind blowing the other way. It's a sight to behold, how they're showing that they were never on the side of the "modern audience" to begin with. We remember tho.