The Doom was an Abolition (Faceless Dragon p.2)

In "The Doom was an Inside Job," I proposed that Aenar Targaryen worked with the Faceless Men to cause the Doom of Valyria, that fiery cataclysm which brought the five thousand year-old Valyrian Empire to a sudden and violent end. The question now is why? Why did Aenar help to cause the destruction of his own nation, the effective genocide of his own people? I think I have the answer...
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The Doom Was an Inside Job: • The Doom Was An Inside...
*Huge thanks to Ba'al the Bard for helping in the development of this theory, check out her KZbin channel: / @gretchenlovesbooks
*Doom of Valyria livestream w/ Ba'al the Bard: • The Doom of Valyria (L...

[@bloodyneptune]

When you mentioned that a few other dragon lords and their dragons survived because they weren't in Valyria when it Doomed, I imagined Aenar talking into a glass candle "execute order 66" and then a montage of people turning on them and taking them out.

[@cloverazar5315]

Dany taking after her great-great-grandpappy.

[@shooshooshooshooshooter]

@@cloverazar5315 missing about 8-12 more greats there

[@cloverazar5315]

@@shooshooshooshooshooter lol true, but in this family there might not be so many rungs on the ladder as all that. I mean, Dany can legitimately say: “my brother is my cousin, my father is my uncle, and my grandpa was a Hapsburg with a fetish for high explosives.” At a certain point you just gotta float with the current lol

[@sorceryfarm6535]

@bloodyneptune more like George Bush using a black candle to tell a few guys who worked on floor 95 of the North Tower not to go to work tomorrow.

[@doctormeatball7618]

LML is always baked, he should be nicknamed Pot Pie, err I mean Hot Pie

[@deniserichards5555]

I just love listening to you. Love your outfit

[@gustavmarkovic31]

Pot Hie ;D

[@TYTfan]

And Aegon ended slavery in the river lands when he fried Harren the Black. The towers of Harrenhal look a lot like a burnt and broken island chain.

[@autje1970]

I think this is a good point, Note also that it is never suggested that the Targaryens had slaves at any point in time. The histories state that they came West and settled on Dragonstone, but never does it say "and they brought their slaves" or something. You would think a family coming from a 5000-year slave-churning empire would have some, at least initially, so the fact that they don't is a curious thing.

[@brandonlambert9768]

@@autje1970 I'm pretty sure they brought their slaves with them but they didn't implement slavery on Dragonstone instead they freed them.

[@autje1970]

@@brandonlambert9768 You're right, I misremembered. Still pretty telling that they freed them. I like the idea.

[@tracymetherell8744]

The Targaryens actively acting to prevent Valeria from rising again really proves the theory for me. If you’re beloved homeland was destroyed you would mourn it not actively act against anything like it from rising again! The doom WAS an inside job!

[@DavidLightbringer]

Ooh good point, yeah you’re right

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

@@DavidLightbringer yeah it was but I doubt it was by the targs they were too lowly a house for them to make it happen I believe the person who did it had a plan but it went out of control and they died along with everyone else

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

@@DavidLightbringer I believe it was coincidence than them planning it

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

@@DavidLightbringer and theirs also the fact that he did shit all after the doom just stayed on dragonstone while their were other surviving dragon lord but they were killed or committed suicide

[@johnnymatias3027]

@@durrangodsgrief6503 they were dragonlords of the great empire that covered half the world. Not the greatest, but equal still to a lesser of the great houses of Westeros, like House Martell-Nymerios, who are actively plotting today waste to the Lannisters and Baratheons. I think it's believable. I think Dorran would hire the Faceless men if he thought one murder could win them vengeance.

[@zacharylustberg4589]

As an avid ASOIAF reader, watcher, and theory/lore enthusiast, I have to say your content is the best of all the content creators for the series. Specifically I’m speaking to the content of what you say, the clarity, logic, and depth in which you go when explaining your theories is exactly what I’m looking for. Even if your content was without video it would be at the top of my list, your effort in background, dress attire and other superfluous parts really are just cherry on top!!

[@DavidLightbringer]

Wow thanks that’s so kind of you to say! I’m doing my best out here

[@julianagouveia5047]

Perhaps the reason why no one can go to the ruins of Valyria has something to do with the Firewyrms. Maybe they used to live inside the Volcanoes and when the flames exploded, the creatures went to the surface. Remembering what happened to Aerea Targaryen. But she had The Blood of the Dragon and somehow outlived others who hadn't because her body was able to acclimate the way others wasn't. That could be the reason no one returns, they die too fast and have no time to go back. But it's just a supposition.

[@JoshSweetvale]

So the Firewyrms have gone full Xenomorph?!

[@neyragrat]

The fate of Aerea Targaryen are the writings of the suppositions of one person. They can't be confirmed truly.

[@johnleppke5791]

Maybe Aenar went to golgasos saw the whole new fresh hell of torture for slaves. And decided to start plotting to blow it all up.

[@lakeshorewalk]

The faceless men's words fit nicely in this scenario. Valar morghulis. Valar dohaeris. Even dragon rider lords.

[@mirarstudios]

Even if the abolition theory is not true, it should be true and I hope it's fully factored into TWOW. It dovetails brilliantly with Dany's abolitionist antics in Essos.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Yeah I really liked that parallel

[@TuskTheRipper96]

I wonder if “The Death Of Dragons” is a like a secret Targaryen tome started by Aenar, and with which the secret acts of he, & his heirs (till a point) are detailed, and Daenerys will learn about her ancestral link to breaking chains via the book. I hope so!

[@EvanSol919]

The WoIaF says that Aenar brought slaves to Dragonstone. Personally I think it was a condition between him and the Faceless Men - we'll carry out the Doom as well as leave you and your family alone if you free your slaves and don't enslave others.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Exactly, it would have had to have language like that

[@DavidLightbringer]

Exactly, it would have had to have language like that

[@johnjirehgarcia8382]

@@DavidLightbringer I can imagine a scenario where the Faceless Men were about to assassinate the Targaryens but they pleaded to save them under the condition that they abandon slavery and help them destroy the Doom, and cement House Targaryen as the only powerful dragonlords in this new world, albeit they must use their dragons for good this time round

[@bshaddo]

Quinn can never predict where his dog will go. She’s unique that way.

[@DesteryandScorger]

Omfg that doggo was so frigging cute. And muh doge is the same way

[@jonhauge-evaldsson783]

One of the tales of the first Faceless man, says he was a son of a freeholder. What if it was Aenar himself?

[@FieryReborn]

Valyria is so interesting. It's like the Empire in star wars but with dragons.

[@regrettablemuffin9186]

I love the idea of Arya getting dark sister because she is the ‘dark sister’ in the Stark family

[@bassanimation]

Something just hit me. Arya's name bears a little bit of resemblance to a Valyrian name, containing a "y". I just wonder if it's intentional, paired with Dany it makes a pretty good comparison with Jon being Aegon, and his two "sisters". I might be crazy but it's neat to think about.

[@charonpluto1085]

Isn’t the theory over complication of the events... How did the Targerians pay for the faceless men to blow up an empire? If they didn’t pay any money so what’s the necessity of them being involved ? I understand the theory has no contradiction but it doesn’t have any necessity too...

[@axelNodvon2047]

@@charonpluto1085 Watch the first part

[@annekingsley4600]

This all makes me very interested in Grand Maester Clegg's assertion that Prince Nymor threatened Aegon the Conqueror with the Faceless Men if he didn't cease the war with Dorne and accept their peace terms. Is it possible that Prince Nymor could have had some information or clue as to Targaryens being involved in the Doom? I doubt it, but even if Prince Nymor had no idea of any connection and it was simply coincidence, I could see Aegon becoming very concerned how further aggression on dragonback may have been received by the FM, if indeed the Doom was an inside job.

[@CrimsonTemplar2]

Trackstar Targaryan is my favorite character from Fire & Blood

[@DavidLightbringer]

He ride the dragon Adidax boldly into battle

[@DavidLightbringer]

He rode the dragon Adidax boldly into battle

[@DavidLightbringer]

He rode the dragon Adidax boldly into battle

[@kieffermorgan]

I’ve been listening to the long form and shorter form videos basically nonstop for weeks now and they’re brilliant. They’ve given me new appreciation for the story GRRM wrote and why (possibly) it’s taking so long for him to write TWOW. Thanks and keep it up.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Awesome, that’s he best thing I can ever hear my friend. Cheers!

[@xarvous]

2:40 PUPPY! A universal sentiment. LML so sincere my dog lifted his head and looked around to see who wanted to pet the puppy. Turns out it was me. I pet the puppy. 11/10 would recommend

[@khalyasongofnerdsandwriter5473]

“Like their dragons the Targaryens answered to neither Gods nor Men.” Best. Fitting. Quote. Ever!

[@johnjirehgarcia8382]

But fitting that they survived exactly because they answered to gods and men by turning against slavery

[@bcruzan120]

Great video, I agree. I suspect the Targaryens may have been ostracized from Valyrian elite society for a long time because they didn’t really partake in all the slavery and heinous blood magic. I also wonder if seeing the Velaryons and Celtigars living in Westeros as Westerosi houses also may have partially inspired Aenar’s future plans for his house after ending the Valyrian Empire. I like the connection to the quote regarding fire and blood ending slavery eventually if it doesn’t happen peacefully, makes sense for it to be the words of House Targaryen. I’ve thought about this also with regard to Prince Doran’s comment about fire and blood and maybe seeing a Targaryen restoration as freeing Dorne and his family from the tyranny of the Lannisters, as well as bringing justice for his family. Maybe Daenys did have a dream about the Doom that Aenar would eventually bring about. Also would have made a good cover story. I wonder if the ancient Valryians were more like the Lhazareen before discovering or gaining access to dragons, and having access to dragons eventually led to not only overcoming outside oppressors, something the people of Lhazar didn’t do, but went beyond that to becoming the evil they originally sought to protect themselves from.

[@roncrimmins3497]

Perhaps the reason Aenar didn't use the dragons to immediately start wars was that he was sick of death and wars.

[@manyeyedcrow9391]

This is the coolest idea about the doom and really seems like it was hiding in plain sight, once you’ve seen it laid out.

[@DavidLightbringer]

That’s what I thought too! I worked my way to it with a friend on a livestream, and the more we thought about it the more sense it made

[@bethanyhutchings1710]

I have been following you and your research since I read the books about 5 years ago. I just wanted to let you know that even though I really love the original, in-depth podcasts/essays, I have a hard time pulling it all together so really enjoy these shorter, condensed ideas and LOVE the live streams where we can all ask questions and discuss ideas with each other. Thanks so much for your passion, hard work, and dedication to GRRM and his works.

[@theskycavedin9592]

If you can consider dragons to be a parallel to the white walkers, then it makes dragons an existential threat. Because much like the WWs if no one can stand against the dragons then they will keep burning and the Valyrians will keep conquering until there is nothing left.

[@DavidLightbringer]

I mean with a five thousand year track record, yeah, it’s easy to say “it’s gonna be another five thousand years unless someone does something”

[@jojoladydayne7311]

I think that Daenys saw something about the Others - past or future or both and that Aenar may not have planned the Doom from a purely selfish POV. We will find out when the rest of the missing Signs & Portents book shows up in T-WoW 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@DavidLightbringer]

Oh man we can only hope for that book!

[@BLooDCoMPleX]

The part you mentioned about Faceless Men and Castle Black library brings a question to my mind, do the FM keep tabs on the current situation of the Watch? You would expect them to be interested in the existence of Others, for reasons that you mentioned, so it would make sense for at least one of them to be at the vicinity of the Watch, or even acting as one of the Black Brothers, though I can't think of any clues that would point us in that direction in any of the books. Still, it's an interesting thought, one of the Night's Watch side characters that we see mentioned here and there to turn out to be a Faceless Man.

[@Angusblurger]

Looks like true Valyrian slav. Gopnik is stronk with this one!

[@Djynni]

Valyrians and slavery: if Valyrians came out of the East, they would have brought the tradition of slavery with them. " Bloodstone Emperor ... began a reign of terror and slavery"

[@honoratagold]

I think you could also make the case that if The Doom was an Inside Job, the motive wasn't necessarily to stop the slavery itself, but to stop the blood magic/sacrifices. While Aenar was recorded as bringing his slaves with him to Dragonstone, the fact that they brought no info on replicating Valyrian technology could be because all that tech ran on blood magic/human sacrifice. [I mean it could also be that they just didn't know how to do it. If I peaced out of my current home, I wouldn't know how to make most of the technology I use on a daily basis either.]

[@johnjirehgarcia8382]

Makes sense as well that King Viserys I Targaryen (Rhaenyra's dad in HOTD) said "dragons are powers men should not have trifled with"

[@eren__morwen5947]

Bro im so deep in watching old videos, im binging full podcasts and i love it. Thank you lucifer

[@kylejones9858]

What do u think about Old Town ending up like Asshai. It’s the original capital full of magic and wizards (measters). It’s build of all stone and has a wizard pirate heading there to maybe destroy it

[@chazblank2717]

They’re kinda mirror images of each other in a lot of ways… pretty sure LML has another theory video about how Old Town was likely founded by marine traders of the Great Empire of the Dawn… but I might be misremembering… it’s very often 4:20 somewhere 😁

[@imnotagoodperson4446]

Squeaks of delight over the puppy! I’m so happy I found this channel.

[@TeroTheShortOne]

I’ve been bingeing your videos, and this video got me wondering whether the Valyrian blood mages were working on making the mine slaves undead as well. After all, you could ‘double dip’ by killing them for blood to fuel the spells keeping the 14 calm, *and* send them to the mines. I also wonder if the time between the move to Dragonstone and the Doom was to identify which specific mages needed to get the chop to bring the Doom about with as little notice as possible.

[@brandonlambert9768]

Arya is going to fangirl over Dany and her dragons.

[@scottcameron174]

You bring up a fascinating point about Maegor and his suspicious death and imply the involvement of the Faceless Men. I've always thought his and some of the other suspicious 'throne deaths' were their work.

[@MiraBoo]

I know this video is 2 years old, but now that season 1 of HotD is airing, we know that the Targaryen’s foresaw their descendent as being pivotal in thwarting the invasion of the Others. If this remains canon to the books, then it’s highly possible that the Faceless Men are aware of this closely guarded secret prophecy that was lost to the Targaryen family with the death of Rhaenyra, adding further credence to your theory.

[@johnjirehgarcia8382]

It wasn't lost, Rhaegar and his grandpa Jaehaerys II knew, Jaehaerys married Mad King Aerys to his sister Rhaella because they thought the Prince That Was Promised hailed from their line.

[@genetalem1400]

Brother, your talent for puzlling things together, and grasping the bigger picture is truly fucking legenaryy. I also come from a family cut by a psychotic fundamentalistic "christian", so you can imagine me sharing some of yoer thoughts on this matter. Take care brothec/solo - sweden

[@DavidLightbringer]

Thanks Genet! Solidarity!

[@ThommyofThenn]

"Fear and Loathing in Valyria," is both perfect and hilarious lol

[@lucashunt4172]

Your generosity with your time to create all these streams has created an amazing community of brilliant people from all over the realm. May we all praise Garth and send musing energy to The Gardener who has brought us all together. ❤

[@iateabagelonce]

You mentioned being born/raised in religious fundamentalism and getting out - same here! Something I love about ASOIAF is how George doesn't pay so much attention to "religion" as much as he does to tradition and fundamentalism itself. Patriarchy is a result of fundamentalism and it harms us all, and so many of George's themes and lore tie all the way back to critiquing patriarchy and fundamentalism. I really enjoyed this series. You've totally convinced me that the Doom was an inside job. I remain unconvinced that Aenar was motivated by wanting to free slaves, but I think I CAN be convinced if I chew on Aenar's connection to the Faceless Men more. I love the point that was made in the Q&A about poison being a woman's weapon and a weapon of the Maesters. This is brought up so many times in ASOIAF that I'm sure it will come up in some big way toward the end of the series. I'm interested to see how human sacrifice will fare as a continued practice in ASOIAF. Jon abhorred Craster's sons being sacrificed to the Others (or becoming Others) and he hates the Wights, Dany abhors slavery in Essos, I'm convinced that this juxtaposition will come up at some point.

[@i.d.k..ijustgothere1260]

My absolute favorite theory of yours! It all clicked so well and you made your argument quite succinctly in the first video and the 1st half of this one. I've bought in 100% Aenar the Architect!!!

[@markdaniel5784]

excellent content as usual. So much appreciate the script to keep the flow going

[@crowningtesla]

Like you said, because of the master/thrall dynamics within the White Walkers' ranks, I can see how the FM would see Dany killing the WW as giving the Gift to the wights. They would be destroyed (given that their life-force works like it did on the show) but they would be free.

[@bassanimation]

As always, I love your videos as they always make me think about this story in whole new ways. Whether wrong or right about theories, it doesn't matter as I just find every angle fascinating. I love your stuff and glad to keep coming along on the journey with you!

[@InterestedAmerican]

@LML If the end goal of Song of Ice and Fire is to heal the damage done through acts of people long ago, Do you think (f)Aegon Targaryen, if he is a true Blackfyre, will really die in Winds of Winter? Would logic not dictate that in order to reverse things toward healing, part of that may require the red and black dragon factions come together, instead of continuing the status quo of battling one another? Afterall, they are both related by the blood of the dragon. Will the feuding finally cease, and Aegon and Daenerys will team up against a great evil, say, Euron? [Edited for clarity] I concur with your hypothesis that some kind of corrupting influence was done within the Weirwood net. But is the healing restricted to just there? Could the healing extend to the Empire of the Dawn? Could we see the foul land within the old Empire healed? Whatever caused the land to go bad is never stated, only hinted at slightly. If GRRM is writing an epic novel that contains an existential healing taking place, then any healing should include the entire planet, no? It won't mean everyone living happily ever after, but it could mean the seasons going back to normal and being unable to be stuck again in any given season. Just looking at it from different angles to see what else could also fit the situation. because at present, the entire planet looks set to explode in Winds of Winter (not too dissimilar to real life at the moment honestly - stay safe everyone).

[@ferniek5000]

Oh my gosh! Please let one storyline be not so tragic and let these two worthy companions unite. I am afraid to let the last remaining romantic impulse in my old self be spent on this theory only to have George make it turn to tragedy!

[@willmosse3684]

Hmm - that’s an interesting idea. Maybe fAegon Blackfyre is the third head of the dragon?

[@InterestedAmerican]

@@willmosse3684 Maybe. The false dragon may then be Euron, who has every intention of getting his hands on a dragon that he intends to fly with. Aegon and Daenerys teaming up against Euron could make Euron the false dragon. He's said he wants a dragon to control. Maybe Kings Landing is destroyed by Euron's dragon with him riding it. Euron has every intention of going to Kings Landing once he does whatever it is he intends down near Old Town. He's seen visions of himself on the throne while under the effects of Blue-lip Special Sauce.

[@InterestedAmerican]

@@ferniek5000 I know EXACTLY how you feel. Hope has to enter at some point in this story. IF GRRM writes Aegon and Daenerys working together, ending the feud, it will leave people completely on the back foot. Not only will it be unexpected, but if it turns out that it was a requirement as part of the overall healing process it opens up who the false dragon is. The ONLY thing I worry about is that (f)Aegon won't live to the end. Black and red factions of the dragon may end their feud, but I don't think he will live to the end of the story for some reason.

[@lakeshorewalk]

Love it. Keep up the brilliant work.

[@Leah-xu2fd]

Very good video, liked seeing the puppy, empathize about not having your computer, liked all the info. Great job! Thanks for it.

[@Drew_Thompson]

The Lannisters can't be trusted with dragons.

[@staticdynamic1605]

always a pleasure to take in what you have to offer

[@xSilverFernx]

Oh my god I never thought about the conspicuous survival of the Targaryans in contrast to the death of all the other stragglers. If the Maesters and/or the Faceless Men has been out to kill all dragonlords, why in the world would they have spared the Targaryans, who lived so close to them!? I think you’re right.

[@suryapratamak1690]

Love all your videos, very detailed and appreciate all the time and research you put into it

[@johnnymatias3027]

Perhaps his motivation was more esoteric. Maybe he discovered the history of the Great Empire of the Dawn and saw its parallel in Valyria, believing they could too easily slip into a reign of terror by a Bloodstone come again, bringing the Long Night, and the Faceless men shared his conviction, with the maintenance of a slave free Westeros and western Essos being the price for their continued protection or neutrality. Maybe it was a specific fear.

[@725TommyG]

Came for the theory, stayed for the “praise Garth” 🍃

[@WhoIsCalli]

Loved both parts LML. Recently found you out and loving all your content. Icing on the cake that you enjoy the works of Graham Hancock

[@DavidLightbringer]

Oh man, Graham’s writing and thinking changed my life. Primarily the way he looks at myth, symbol, and ancient man. Really shaped my thinking. You could say he introduced me to the concept of mythical astronomy

[@WhoIsCalli]

Lucifer means Lightbringer yes sir, Graham puts forth some incredible notions and ideas. I do a lot of my traveling based on places he talks about. I look forward to delving into more of your videos!!

[@leepreston9637]

The fact that he didn't enact his plan 6 months after he moved may just be logistics. It may have taken twelve years to come up with the money needed. What if however the doom is a result of a time loop paradox. Aenar got the idea of it from his daughter's dream. His daughter told him the dream and he realized that is what would happen if you eliminated the priests holding back the 14 flames. He may have wanted to do something about his societies ills for a while and just didn't know what. Maybe he even prayed to the right deity about it and that deity blessed him with a prophecy. A self fulfilling prophecy.

[@johnjirehgarcia8382]

The Targaryens paying the Faceless Men in installments?

[@brandonlambert9768]

The faceless men recruited Arya so she can skinchange into one of Dany's dragons.

[@sabrinakrisb4672]

Wow why didnt that cross my mind! Great sight

[@brandonlambert9768]

@@sabrinakrisb4672 It does explain why they recruited her. She'll most likely end up helping Dany.

[@sabrinakrisb4672]

@@brandonlambert9768 I've thought for a while that the FN were hired by Varys and Ilyrio to kill Bran as Bloodraven is a Targ loyalist and Varys and Illyrio are Blackfires. But FN definitely have their own aversion to dragon magic

[@theinvisiblewoman6783]

I’ve been wondering if Skinchanging into a dragon is possible for a few years now. But if R+L does = J can Jon warg into a dragon?

[@spencer1155]

Glad that Quinn showed his dog Seona (sp?)!!! Also, don’t worry about the wig-fizz, it doesn’t show in the video. Thank you for making all these FANTASTIC videos!!!

[@JoshSweetvale]

Remember that Simpsons Halloween episode where Flanders shot Homer in the nuclear plant and Springfield went !!BOOOOOOM!!! ? Yeah that but with magic.

[@keatonisballin]

Another great one. I really love this theory.

[@sorceryfarm6535]

Gopnik Valerian. That look is %100 Gopnik Valerian. If you had an AK with a Valerian cold rolled steel barrel, trunnion, and bcg, you'd be spot on.

[@blablablabla3819]

excited to see the condensed Green Zombies, easily my favorite Mythical Astronomy series!

[@Matthew_Baratheon]

That Fevre Dream reference has even more meaning to this theory. The main charactee seems very proto Targaryen and wants his people to change...he wants peace and the end to cruelty and treating people like cattle

[@davidcipolla4036]

"Fear and loathing in Valyria" 🤣🤣🤣 that's great I love it. Btw awesome work you've been putting out, some serious legit theories I must say & I've been into ASOIAF for about 5-6 years now. 💯🙌

[@onetwothreefourfive12345]

your video was awesome thanks!

[@jakubjanicki3989]

It's amazing how deeply you guys analyze this story and not notice that it's basically a SUPER thinly veiled retelling of Elric Of Melnibone's story, but with a "what if Elric just took Cymoril and left before the fall of Melnibone instead of wandering" twist. I'm not saying GRRM is ripping off Elric, but the Song Of Ice and Fire is very clearly inspired by it, and a take on its story.

[@DavidLightbringer]

Oh for sure, there are huge inspirations there, and he’s open about that. I never thought about the doom though, that’s interesting

[@jakubjanicki3989]

@@DavidLightbringer It does strike me as the core idea from which the Doom story stands, at least. And it would work with the idea of doom being caused by a Targaryen who was searching for deeper morality than the depraved ways of his people.

[@definitejux1265]

Love these videos so much

[@asddsdsssd]

Knew you were a psychonaut you cheeky beautiful bastard you

[@brandonlambert9768]

I enjoy both the long and short videos.

[@cuttingwitjason7195]

I love busting out the dab rig and watching LML!

[@AJBouc]

Love it, thank you LML!

[@iamsecond411]

The dragons are very powerful and magical creators. The other are powerful and magical as well. Could they be looking to a book that is about the death of dragons hoping it could also be applied to the others? Maybe to them they see two magical and powerful creatures and think they can get rid of them the same way. I definitely don’t think the book will help them defeat the others but they could believe that it will

[@emarti3853]

At least some maesters at the Citadel have some knowledge of reforging Valyrian steel. Maester Luwin showed his Valyrian steel link in his chain to Bran. There were either enough links to supply new maesters with these for centuries; or there is a cache in the Citadel of Valyrian steel which is steadily worked to produce chain links. Maesters used to study in Valyria, perhaps those maesters studied the smithing techniques, produced Brightroar, made a lot of links for maesters, and the technique got lost. No one is taught how to forge Valyrian steel to get the link (which may have been appropriate at one time), instead they're taught magic no longer works

[@DavidLightbringer]

I disagree, and I’m amazed at how many people this assumption. You never need to reforge a Valyrian link to put it in a chain - you melt and open the links adjacent instead, as those would be easier to open and close. As for the supply, they probably got a bunch from Valyria back in the day, and most people don’t study magic to that level anymore so they don’t need many. So no, there’s actually no evidence the maestros can rework Valyrian steel. It isn’t suggested by anyone in the story either. And so the theory the maesters sold the Lannister’s brightroar hinges on several assumptions that are unsupported by evidence stacking on top of one another, which is why I call it far fetched.

[@DavidLightbringer]

I disagree, and I’m amazed at how many people this assumption. You never need to reforge a Valyrian link to put it in a chain - you melt and open the links adjacent instead, as those would be easier to open and close. As for the supply, they probably got a bunch from Valyria back in the day, and most people don’t study magic to that level anymore so they don’t need many. So no, there’s actually no evidence the maestros can rework Valyrian steel. It isn’t suggested by anyone in the story either. And so the theory the maesters sold the Lannister’s brightroar hinges on several assumptions that are unsupported by evidence stacking on top of one another, which is why I call it far fetched.

[@DavidLightbringer]

I disagree, and I’m amazed at how many people this assumption. You never need to reforge a Valyrian link to put it in a chain - you melt and open the links adjacent instead, as those would be easier to open and close. As for the supply, they probably got a bunch from Valyria back in the day, and most people don’t study magic to that level anymore so they don’t need many. So no, there’s actually no evidence the maestros can rework Valyrian steel. It isn’t suggested by anyone in the story either. And so the theory the maesters sold the Lannister’s brightroar hinges on several assumptions that are unsupported by evidence stacking on top of one another, which is why I call it far fetched.

[@emarti3853]

@@DavidLightbringer As I was writing my comment, I also came to the conclusion that at least now the maesters have no knowledge of Valyrian steel. If anyone would know how, it would be Marwyn the Mage, and he doesn't have a sword that we know of. The books do tell us that the maesters studied in Valyria, which is where they got the candles and the knowledge to use them. Perhaps they would have gotten the knowledge of smithing Valyrian steel as well. This would lead to them learning blood sacrifice at some level is necessary, perhaps giving them a reason to cause the doom; this would be a similar motivation to your Aenar Targaryen theory. On that note, its notable the lack of Valyrian steel that the Targaryens have, all coming down to two swords. Clearly they either never possessed the knowledge to make it - only bought some to sell it to Westerosi houses - or decided to lose the skill, based on the assumed blood cost.

[@imtrashburnme7462]

@@emarti3853 maybe maybe in which case Targ house words are a sort of cautionary tale reminder/warning, MUCH more literally than the others

[@xavier84623]

im so jelly u get to smoke. i had to move to texas, hard times :(

[@DavidLightbringer]

man, the rest of the country needs to get with it. It's so fucking silly to lock people up for that

[@xavier84623]

@@DavidLightbringer amen brother

[@doktorcool3740]

I very much appreciate the "shorter" (still 1h :-P) videos. You lost me back then when you churned out all those 3+ hour discussions (which I didn't even bother to start), but the likes of this video are great.

[@shuaibsaleem569]

"Execute order 66" as all of the other surviving dragon Lords get attacked😂😂😂

[@shadiganymedeeros3588]

Aenar Targaryens = god flipping a coin. Aenar: "hmmmm commit widescale genocide and be on top AND cover it with altruism OR I'm my own nephew-uncle-cousin?"

[@Disheveled_Sage]

Lookin' fresh as hell, lml. Also, thanks for the content. ✌😅

[@sorceryfarm6535]

I was driving during the last Doom video and couldn't comment, but had this thought: What if the Valerians weren't using dragon fire to make Valerian steel and their stone roads/keeps, but the harnessed power of those 14 Fires? My first thought when the maester said they 'kept them banked' was, 'What an incredible waste.' No way a 5000 year empire, and an expansionist slaver empire to boot, would waste that giant resource. This doesn't really change the hypothesis that the Faceless Men had a hand in the Doom, just a cool thought.

[@blablablabla3819]

i’m late! good to have this waiting for me though :)

[@billwright4234]

How many dead slaves would be beyond comprehension? I wouldn't think a few million would be beyond comprehension but billions?? That def is??

[@roders125]

Thank you

[@jorenvanderark3567]

The idea of the children of the forest being involved comes from the interpretation that the faces on their weirwood trees (their gods) translates into being a many faced god. Essentially the children are behind the faceless men who are behind the doom.

[@rascal342]

Isn’t it very telling that Aenar and his family didn’t bring slavery to Westeros? That Aegon and his wives proudly carry so many Valyrian customs with them but slavery is never even suggested?

[@lanananans]

I can't protest against this awesome theory,great job

[@jonhauge-evaldsson783]

Thanx a bunch!

[@trevenflynn4780]

i think we could look at it logically. The vision by his daughter sort of “inspired him” and made him able to conceive it as possible. He then left Valyria with the intention of protecting his family and possibly with a plan to make the doom happen

[@amandaofhouserobinson6707]

Another great Livestream! Also I had a thought yesterday that what if the different coloured gemstone eyes of the people in danys dream and of the prev king's And Queens from the Great Empire of the Dawn, what if purple coloured meant able to bond with dragon's and say the tourmaline colour means able to bond with sea creatures or trees or something and that each gemstone colour correlates with a different ability??? Any way I'm sure that this is stupid but just thought I throw it out there .. Thanks Lml for the great content!

[@tool9386]

Puppy has gotten big since I last saw.

[@the4thamigo]

I love this guy. We cud chill and talk shit I'm sure

[@theinvisiblewoman6783]

LML It is highly likely Daenerys’s dragon eggs were the same ones Elissa Farman stole and sold to the Sealord of Braavos. Why would they be given up if important people didn’t want Dany to have dragons? And if fAegon is a Blackfyre like everyone suspects why give the eggs to Dany and not fAegon as more proof of his birthright?

[@johnjirehgarcia8382]

Oh yeah. Why not give the dragon eggs to Young Griff if they think he's legitimate? Unless... they know Dany is the only living true Targaryen left

[@joejejeo]

Maybe no one offered any mula in the way of the Faceless men to off Dany or any of other Targ. Also what price would be asked for Dany, I mean King Robert nods to sending a FM however would they even accept this mission considering they cooperate with the Targs. Maybe if Robert sought the assistance of the FM it would reveal that Dany is a person they wont touch.

[@StupendousHillis]

lmao! Lambert the Sheepish Lion! I loved that cartoon as a kid! "Lambert the sheepish lion, Lambert hes always trying, to be a wild and whooly sheep! lambert the sheepish lion!"

[@artostheimplacable4095]

I like the anti-slavery angle. It rhymes with history. The British Empire went from profiting from slavery to spending billions fighting against it, going into debt. We only finished paying it off as a nation in the 90's. It makes sense that a group who realised suddenly how atrocious their behavior and customs are, would act drastically to change things. Even going so far as to destroy their country or empire in order to end the suffering they cause.

[@jonhauge-evaldsson783]

The dept was for compensating the slavers not the slaves. So not so noble.

[@artostheimplacable4095]

@@jonhauge-evaldsson783 Actually it was both. Part of the debt was also to do with funding the initiative, ships, men etc cost money. Do your research, paying slavers was often a better option. You also have the fact that most of those slavers were not British. I'll let you figure out where they were from.

[@Vxlle_Editz]

I love that you referenced Graham Hancock at the end, greet recommendation!

[@lucashunt4172]

Being super nice to people and giving them gifts isn’t terrifying, it’s just the dynamic the Facelessmen promote in societies they visit. Be good to anyone because they just may be No One.

[@TheBrett1890]

Good theory. It is plausible, and maybe the most plausible theory, but I think there are more than your two explanations.

[@danieldeclue1466]

In terms of why the Faceless Men didn't keep killing the dragons after the Doom of Valeria, perhaps they felt the debt had been paid, especially if Aenar Targaryen had been the one to bankroll and or support their assassinations of the other dragon Lords. After all, we would have been speaking of the last dragons in existence, and The Faceless Men have proven time and again that while they have no qualms about killing that they still have an overall respect for life itself and it doesn't seem to me that genocide would be something they would be okay with no matter what species

[@johnjirehgarcia8382]

Targaryens were the only dragonlords left but they were not the last Valyrian-blooded people who survived - one of them, Larra Rogare, even marrying into the Targaryen bloodline even.

[@danieldeclue1466]

@@johnjirehgarcia8382 yes ur correct there were also the celtigars and valeryons although I didn't mention them specifically bcuz they were not dragon riders. Should have clarified

[@gd-wn4ms]

I haven't read the books so I'm just wondering. Could there be any connection to "the many-faced god" and the whole "dragon has three heads" phrase (which is also in the targaryen sygil)?

[@three-eyed_magpie]

12:00 Thank you for mentioning the ancient Sumer, that well illustrated that Valyria was an incomparable power that lasted for eons. Gave me shivers. Thousands of years of horrible crimes commited upon Essos populace. I wonder if Dany ever reflected on Valyrian slavery. As far as I remember she mostly mentions Valyria in vaguely positive terms, as a part of the glorious origin story of Targaryens. That's how Viserys would have talked about Valyria. Maybe Dany didn't learn much about pre-doom Valyria. I wonder if she will ever have an opportunity to grapple with the negative aspects of her Valyrian heritage.