Luxembourgish: language or German dialect?

In this video, shot in the Ueseldange Castle crypt, Luxembourgish teacher-author Jackie Messerich and I discuss whether Luxembourgish is a language or just a German dialect.

[@TheNotoriousDUDE]

Whether or not something is a language depends mostly on politics. Being a native speaker of Moselle Franconian, Feller Platt to be exact, I can understand Luxembourgish perfectly fine without having ever learned it, which is one of the reasons I consider it both a language and a German dialect with a bunch of French loanwords.

[@adambihi3752]

A language is not defined by a country. Many different countries can share the same language, and many languages can be spoken inside one unique country.

[@gergelybakos2159]

Well, yes. Actually Luxembourgish is an official language. Its official status does make a difference.

[@Frankyavalone]

Actually, it's hard to tell what distinguishes a dialect from a language. A teacher of mine always used to say that a language is a dialect with an army and a navy. From a historical point of view, it's much more complicated and depends on your definition of "German" (Deutsch). Luxemburgish has derived from what we call "Weser-Rhein-Germanisch", just like some German dialects (for example Kölsch), but so has Netherlandish (nobody would call that a German dialect!), whereas other German dialects derived from completely different strands. Languages and dialects are merely constructs we created to generate a feeling of nationality, and do not always depict reality in a scientifically accurate way. Leaving this aside, I totally agree with Jackie! Luxembourgish is related to an independent country, used by it's people in formal and informal situations, so why shouldn't it be a proper language. I guess if Luxembourg was bigger, nobody would even think about calling it a dialect of another language :)

[@shadedoom1261]

Frankyavalone In German theres a word for what Luxembourgish is. "Ausbausprache" which means development language. It refers to a language which is no longer a dialect but not fully a language either. Its a language which is drifting away from the parent language(german in this case) but it is not completely severed yet. That being said, most Germans cannot have a conversation in Luxembourgish, but can decipher the meaning of what someone is saying if they try. This gets easier as you go more west in Germany. Basically, Luxembourgish is no longer a dialect, however the language as a language is still forming.

[@BLARGHINATOR]

I disagree - Luxembourgish is a language and also it's not an 'Ausbausprache'. The difference, I think, between a language and a dialect is, that languages enjoy some sort of standardization and have a basis in jurisdiction. Both of these apply to Luxembourgish. Standardization is quite young, but it exists, and since 1984 it's been the national language of Luxembourg. What exactly is a parent language? Is Latin the parent language of french? Is French an 'Ausbausprache' because it's not fully severed? Or Spanish? Sure, Luxembourgish has a lot of similarities to German, but it's its own language

[@IRAUDR]

Frankyavalone not a navy. many lands have no coast . like lux

[@baselsaab1833]

Is a dialect.

[@walterross9057]

Frankyavalone German isn't just Standard German (Hochdeutsch) but also all Germanic dialects in German speaking countries except Frisian ones because Anglo-Frisian West Germanic went different ways than the continental West Germanic dialects. Dutch and German and Luxembourgish evolved as standards from different segments of this dialect continuum. Historically the dialects of that continuum were called Dietsch, Düütsch, Duytsch, Deitsch and Deutsch. As late as the 18th c. Dutch scholars thought Dutch and Low German and High German to be just varieties of the same language Duytsch.

[@adambihi3752]

Luxemburgisch has practically the same grammar as many german dialects and is mutually intelligible with them, add to that that it is part of the german dialect continuum even if it has some French loan words. The Saarländisch and Schwiizerdüütsch doesn't claim to be a language on its own even though they also have their own words and some french loan words, because it can still be encompassed within the German dialects spectrum.

[@lerapol]

Luxembourgish*

[@walterross9057]

@@lerapol Lëtzebuergesch

[@lerapol]

@@walterross9057 Well in English it would be "Luxembourgish" but in Luxembourgish it would be "Lëtzebuergesch", but he is speaking English so therefore (obviously) he would write it in English.

[@adrianosilvachagas6715]

to me it's definitely an own language as a native german speaker. Sure every dialect has it's own words but it's another thing. More than just a dialect. At least to me

[@davidamajako961]

Oh the lies is deep in this one

[@duesen756]

In Bavaria we also use french words that are completely integrated in our language, so I don't think that influence from other languages make a difference to what call a language or a dialect. But in my opinion Luxembourgish is both, it's the language that's used by the people in Luxembourg, but it's also really close to neighbouring german dialects

[@marcstein2510]

Überhaupt nicht vergleichbar. Wir luxemburg benutzen französische wörter in jedem satz. Das ist bei bayerisch überhaupt nicht der fall.

[@blanco7726]

Holy shit the castle of Useldange! I stumbled upon this gallery with some friends a couple weeks ago while driving through the Western bits.

[@ManicEightBall]

I think it's just as legitimate to say that German is a dialect of Luxembourgish as the other way around. It might be better to describe Luxembourgish and German as language varieties.

[@rogersu4867]

I thought they speak French all the time bc the official documents are also written in French, according to my Luxembourgish friehnd. When I went to Luxembourg, I was about to order a meal in German but waitress greeted me in French, so I spoke English at the end. :D

[@shadedoom1261]

Roger Su French is predominantly spoken usually, and definitely in official business like government, but most citizens also know German and Luxembourgish ofcourse

[@walterross9057]

Roger Su The waiters and other employees in many service branches are often from French speaking countries , especially France and speak only French. Standard German is used in school and by media. French is not the original language of Luxembourgers.

[@bl4ckbl1zz41]

Roger Su french people come the here and steal our country like nor in the shops there are omly french people and very rarely luxembourger

[@descriptiondescriptiondescript]

So they speak all 3!? That's awesome

[@osantiagues]

Interesting video - there isn't much info on Luxembourgish on the web. Would you be able to make a video about the usage of the three national languages of Luxembourg? French, Luxembourgish, German? It's hard to imagine for a monoglot like me how they fit 3 languages into daily life!

[@emer5077]

Actually, alot of people are Immigrants and cant speak German or even Luxembourgish. There are alot of frenchmen and portuguese in our country.

[@marcstein2510]

@@emer5077 portuguese people being far better integrated into society. 2nd generation portuguese nearly alway speak luxembourgish, while french children go to their own schools and very often never learn luxembourgish. And then complain of discrimination because they can’t work for luxembourgish state because they can’t speak the required languages.

[@HesseJamez]

It's closer to High German than Swiss"German" is - though it was declared to be an independent language.

[@callumcuda7903]

I love the look on this guy's face as he gradually realizes he's been learning German for 2 years.

[@SoWhat89]

Luxemburgish IS a German dialect. There is no linguistic definition of what's a dialect and where a different language begins. Those are basically political terms. Calling something a language is a sign of respect and recognizing it as something unique. And I mean, she said it herself: It is related to a country. This is what the label "language" is based on in the case of Luxemburgish. The Mosel Franconian dialect spoken in bordering Saarland and Rhineland Palatinate in Germany are only considered dialects in Germany although they're pretty much the same as Luxemburgish and also contain many French loandwords, just fewer. The only difference is that Luxemburgish, due to its political relevance, is still thicker, more standardized and has less standard German influence. In the bordering regions the dialects are being pushed away by Standard German and are assimilated more to it while in Luxemburg it's kept alive. 50 years ago they were still the same though.

[@billbirkett7166]

There are two ways to look at the German language: you can look it in the narrower sense, and say that dialects there are intelligible with standard high German count as German, and then you can look at German as actually a FAMILY of closely-related languages. So we could call 'West Germanic' a single language if we wanted to (maybe we would exclude Frisian and Ingvaenoic languages from this because the abstand is too great). So in the broadest sense of what we consider German, then, yes, Luxembourgish is a German dialect. But under such classification, so is Dutch, so is Platt, so is Swabian, so is Bavarian, and so is Alemannic or Swiss German. All of these languages I have mentioned are as or nearly as far apart from standard German as Portuguese is from Spanish (especially Luxembourgish, Dutch, and Swiss German). It all depends on your system of classification. But having looked at Luxembourgish enough, it clearly requires training to be able to speak it...it has all different verb forms and vocabulary. When we think of a dialect, we think of some code switching and some different words and expressions...but fundamentally, it will have the same syntax as the language it is roofed with. Luxembourgish (as well as Swiss German)...has a completely independent syntax. So linguistically, there is no doubt that it can exist perfectly fine on its own without reference to standard German (and I believe that that really answers the question).

[@Vagabund92]

German and Luxemburgish are related languages... you can call Luxemburgish a German dialect, but you could also call High German a dialect of Luxemburgish :D

[@toxin9564]

I think that it's called "Hochdeutsch".But im not sure?

[@Vagabund92]

Yes standard german is called "Hochdeutsch", at the same time Hochdeutsch can also refer to a dialect group in Germany

[@radiojet1429]

There is Plattdeutsch, Frisian and Transylvanian Saxon plus the 30 or so dialects of Swiss German, for starters....whew...it's exhausting!

[@walterross9057]

Standard German evolved from East Central and North Upper German dialects (and some Low German input), Luxembourgish from West Central German dialects. It's closely related to Moselle Franconian. Luxemburgers called their vernacular Letzeburger Deitsch (Luxembourg German).

[@walterross9057]

Vagabund92 But historically the name Deutsch in whatever dialectal form is the older denomination also for the whole continental West Germanic dialect continuum. Deutsch, German is much more than just Hochdeutsch, Standard German. Originally Dutch meant the same as German. Luxembourgers called their own vernacular Letzeburger Deitsch, Luxembourg German.

[@nutzungsbedingungen1980]

Auf der Seite der luxemburgischen Regierung steht, dass Luxemburgisch ein Dialekt ist, der 1984 zur Nationalsprache wurde - für mich ist es ein Dialekt, der dort als "Nationalsprache" fungiert (das kann man aber auch fast bei den schweizerdeutschen und bairischen Dialekte so sehen, die deutlich weiter vom Schriftdeutschen weg sind)

[@Zwerggoldhamster]

I don't wanna get into whether it's a language or not (as others have pointed out, drawing the line between those two is quite difficult). I just think that some of the arguments she gives are quite weak: Catalan doesnt have a country associated with it (as of Feb 2018), I would still consider it a romance language and not just a Spanish dialect. You use a different vocabulary? Have you ever compared northern German to South Tyrolian? You will find more Italian words in the latter. The best argument she gives is imo that you can use luxembourgish (written or spoken) in formal situations.

[@im0rtalpunk]

The arguments the lady gives are indeed weak. For instance you have a lot of languages in Russia like, let's say, Chechen. You can't really say Chechen is a dialect of Russian, it's not even remotely related... But Catalan kinda has its country, Andorra but yeah, it's not called Andorran so it's just an independent country that happens to be in the Catalan speaking region and thus has Catalan as its sole official language.

[@gregoryk.173]

@@im0rtalpunk In Russia almost every minor ethnicity like Chechens has their own federal subject in which their language is official and may be used in official situations. So your example is incorrect.

[@im0rtalpunk]

kyshtym midget I know but it’s not official on a national level. Catalan is also official in Catalonia despite not being a country. But well I get your point. Maybe Karelian is a better example because it does have its republic but it isn’t even official in Karelia lol

[@im0rtalpunk]

kyshtym midget or like Khanty or Mansi which don’t have a republic but an automomous Okrug. But well, just any example of an unofficial minority language would beat her argument stating that a language is a language when used in formal settings. I do agree Luxembourgish is its own thing but for other reasons.

[@gregoryk.173]

@@im0rtalpunk that ladie's arguement works if it's argueable whether some dialect can be called a separate language or not. If two languages have completely different origins it's obvious they aren't one language. But consider the following situation. There is a big country with a lot of local dialects. They all sound somewhat fancy to each other but are generally comprehensible. And just one of them is considered official. If there isn't much tension between the speakers caused by economic factors or something there is no point to say your dialect is very distinct, very ancient and so on. But for some reason they got split into separate countries, in each of them the official language is the local dialect. Then questioning if this language is a real language would be considered questioning the legitimacy of the whole cointry, an offense. Plus, there is no clear border even between the dialects, not only languages and calling one thing a dialect and another a language in most cases is a political act. So I suppose that's what she meant.

[@JL0ndon]

To me Luxembourgish seems like proto-German and French and English but it also seems very similar to Dutch

[@walterross9057]

J.London Luxembourgish has many French loan words. But it's West Central German like Moselle Franconian. Therefore it's also similar to Ripuarian (like Koelsch, Cologne Platt) which is quite similar to Low Rhenish in the North Rhine region which is both Low German and (East) Dutch because it's Low Franconian like Dutch. So you are not totally wrong with your statement about Dutch.

[@radiojet1429]

Castilian was a parochial, inland dialect that became the lingua franca of the Spanish Empire when the Crown moved the capital to Madrid, where it was the local tongue. It developed into a world-class language of literature, science and culture now spoken by 500 million people. Luxemburgish may have been a regional Germanic 'dialect' but it developed into a true national language, also. The vocabulary and structure of the language were amplified and expanded to meet the demands an independent nation would require of it.

[@SilverWave64]

It's an official language since 1984. So what was before that? Was it considered a German dialect at the time? Was everything written in German?

[@walterross9057]

Letzeburger Deitsch (Luxembourg German) - a variety of German but not of Standard German.

[@wasirana1416]

I like your country coz your country independent u give respect all religious

[@marchauchler1622]

Luxembourgish linguistically is still a dialect of German and politically a distinct language. I speak fluent French, English and German plus have a good command of Dutch. As a native speaker of German, without ever having learnt how to speak Luxembourgish, I can understand the Luxembourgish language perfectly. Just to clarify the language issue. Calling Luxembourgish a language is like saying Swiss German (which is less intelligble to High German speakers) is its own language.

[@rogercrochet2100]

Swiss German is it's own language. The frontier between language and dialect is artificial.

[@marchauchler1622]

@@rogercrochet2100 so is Low German, Franconian, Bavarian and possibly Saxon... according to your definition

[@eifel70]

I think even dutch is a (strange) german dialect :)

[@vercingetorix2923]

eifel70 from a linguistic perspective that's true. Lexembougish aswell. They are languages from a political standpoint not from linguistic one. They are diferent variations of a dialect that is part of the west germanic dialect continuum.

[@lerapol]

Dutch is a very different language to German!! With that logic you could just call Danish a ""StRAngE"" German dialect!?!?! I'm slightly confused here

[@Leo-uu8du]

@@lerapol ah no, cuz danish is north-germanic and dutch is a low german dialect, but not a central/standard german one.

[@danieltoet7447]

Dutch is not a Low German dialect. One could call it a West Germanic dialect if German (Hochdeutsch) is also classified as such. Understand that Dutch did not develop from German, but rather in parallel. To be more specific, Dutch is Low Franconian (the 2 terms are essentially equivalent), while Low German (Plattdeutsch) is Low Saxon. The latter is also spoken in the East of the Netherlands, with limited mutual intelligibility with "standard" Dutch (or Hochdeutsch)

[@AnnieGaming]

Sounds like a fancy version of german.

[@Brandubhh]

Yes, because it is a dialect promoted to a written language. And the lady here speaks English with a German accent.

[@BazookaLuca]

Sounds like a lower German being drunk and then locking himself into a Castle and drinking even more

[@kot3405]

@@Liradu2 are you deaf?

[@walterross9057]

SilverWave Luxembourgers called their language or dialects "Letzeburger Deitsch" (Luxembourg German) or "our German". There are several West Central German dialects in Luxembourg. So the dialects are part of the German part of the Continental West Germanic dialect continuum (not of the Dutch part but not far away). Luxembourgish is closely related to Moselle Franconian. Standard German (Hochdeutsch) now mostly shortcut to "German" ("Deutsch") evolved from East Central German (Upper Saxon) and North Upper German (East Franconian) with some input from Low German. Please do not confuse Standard German with the totality of German dialects. The denomination "Deutsch" for Dutch and German dialects has a history of almost 1000 years (therefore "Dutch"). In the 19th c. Luxembourg adopted Standard German in addition to French as standard. Most of media (like press) and part of education use Standard German. Because of the importance of French for the upper classes and administration of the Low Countries during the Burgundian and Habsburg periods (since the 15th c.) it was early on much used for writing. Later Standard German also was frequently used (the standardization of German was essentially completed only in the 19th c. ). The upper classes prefered French, the other classes German. Under "German dialects" you find instructive dialect maps online.

[@SilverWave64]

So it was like in Switzerland that has "Schwiitzerdütsch"

[@walterross9057]

Good analogy.

[@thogameskanaal]

I'd say Luxembourgish is a language. It'd be the same as calling Dutch a dialect of German. It could easilly be passef off as a dialect, with a lot of north sea germanic features not found in standard German, but Dutch and Flemish speakers don't concider it part of German, since it developed at it's own pace and has different vocabulary and loanwords.

[@Brandubhh]

She speaks with a German accent....Luxembourgish is a German dialect that has risen up to a written language and that is why it is a language of its own.

[@dirkvantroyen9170]

*Luxembourgisch accent

[@rippspeck]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't we been friends for generations? Why have this pointless nationalist debate? Schönen Gruß nach Lëtzebuerg. Das E mit Umlaut könnten wir auch gebrauchen.

[@marcstein2510]

Manche leute in deutschland sind eben unbelehrbar. Sie wollen uns luxemburger immer wieder klarmachen dass wir ‘ethnische/rassische’ deutsche sind. Dabei erreichen sie jedoch nur das genaue gegenteil: nämlich dass wir uns von den deutschen noch stärker differenzieren möchten.

[@FaberBollonius]

i love this moselfranconian dialect which became a national language. I am from the region between Koblenz and Siegen, the eastern end of the moselfranconian dialect area, so it is easy for me to understand it, and for luxemburgians it should also be easier to understand me if I speak my variant of Wäller Platt rather than standard high german. Un doremm sein mir os westliche Nohbern och leewer wie Ösis, Friesen et cetera ;-)

[@Leo-uu8du]

What are Osis?

[@scepticsquirrel]

@@Leo-uu8du Nickname for Austrians

[@superman-rz3vw]

Oh du schöner Westerwald

[@bl4ckbl1zz41]

luxembourger sind die meister der sprachen wir können viele sprachen mir den richtigen accent

[@Heartabolical555]

das stimmt.. aber ihr habt Akzente, mur nicht so schlimme, wie wir Schweizer. Eure sind entweder ähnlich wie die von Franzosen oder flämisch/holländische Akzente.

[@marcstein2510]

Als luxemburger muss ich dem widersprechen. Wir haben starke akzente in allen sprachen 🙈🙈

[@safuwanfauzi5014]

I think Luxemburigish can be both Language and Dialect of German, just like Malay-Indonesian and MInangkabau language. Minangkabau sometime can called Malay dialect sometimes as Language, both culture Malay and Minangkabau are similar except architecture. in Malaysia, Negeri Sembilan State, where Minangkabau are ethics majority, Malaysian consider it as Malay dialect. not langauge(family language), Negeri Sembilan, in Malaysia Peninsular. and West Sumatra Province in Sumatra, Indonesia are Minangkabau state/province.

[@hanggaraaryagunarencagutuh7072]

Nope. Minangic and Malay cannot be comparatively parallel to Luxembourgish and German. Minangic and Malay would be much like Dutch and German. The most similar comparisons to Luxembourgish and German in Nusantara and Sundaland are: (1) Kedahan language and Perlisan language, and (2) Minangic language and Kamparian language.

[@safuwanfauzi5014]

@@hanggaraaryagunarencagutuh7072 thank you for explanation, Kedahanan-Santun-Krabi Malay or Northernese Malay are similar, just like Kelantanese with Patani-Singgora/Songkhla dialect., it under umbrella of east coast dialect like Kelantan, Patani, Singgora, Ligor(Nakhon Si Thamarat Malay extinct, but use in Akad Nikah and religious ceremony, dialect ending with o same like Patani and Kelantan, fr example, 'Ako timo nikoh nyo ........), Natuna Malay, Terengganu a d Hulu Perak(Gerik Malay), east coast Malay architecture used "bumbung pemeleh" curved roof gable more south it become straight like Pahang and Natuna, Natuna style almost extinct, similar to Pahang and Pulau Tioman style.the most northern Nusantaran language in peninsular is Mergui Island Moken, and Molken and Krabi, Phuket, Ranong and Phang-Nga Urak lawoi(MALAYIC Language Just like Minang, Basemah, Semende, Banjar, Kutai dan Kedayan. it aamazing to learn similariy between close related dialect. para-;amgaige amd ;amgage fa,o;y/

[@hannofranz7973]

As far as dialect varieties is concerned, it's so hard to establish a clear distinction between dialects and languages. All the established criteria fail at a certain point. Fine with me if we consider Luxemburgish a language. I have serious trouble with understanding Bavarian dialects. For me it's like another language. In lingüístic terms I understand Luxemburgish is considered a mosel-franconian dialect in the same way as the bordering dialects in Germany, France and Belgium but , as It goes beyond borders, I'd prefer the term Germanic instead of German. Otherwise you make people understand that all Germanic dialects have originated in Germany and you associate Germany within its borders. It's as if you were saying that the human is derived from the ape instead of saying that they are of a common offspring.

[@rccarloverluxembourg718]

ovh relativ

[@aharonfernandez6359]

#1 'Bavarian' is not only in germany but also pretty much most of austria,part of italy and a town in brazil.

[@lukadese]

Are you from brazill Blumenau ? Bavarian is only used in bavaria/germany. Austria has similiar dialects but in austria they also have different dialects. And the austrian/tyrolian dialect is also used in north italy. So they sound similiar but they are different. Thats the same with the allemanic/Sout-west german dialect and the swiss dialect. Its similiar and people who speak 1 can understand the other but its not the same.

[@aharonfernandez6359]

Austrian is another dialect of the Austro-Baverian language (boarisch) the same way that Portuguese both of Portugal and Brazil as well as Galician in Spain are part of the Galego-Portugues language. Swiss German is as different from canton to canton as different varieties of AUstro-bavarian is. in both situations 'dialekt' is the daily language (outside of big cities) and Schriftdeitsch is only for writing and maybe school. The differences is that Luxemburg decided in that last century to stop using so-called 'standard german' (an artificial construct which was foreign to pretty much foreign to most of Germany, not mention other lands)

[@walterross9057]

Luxembourgers always spoke Letzeburger Deitsch, Luxembourg German, their German, as popular language in most situations. But they adopted Standard German for some areas in education, media etc.. They learn it easily in school because of it's similarity with Luxembourg German. It remains one of the three official languages of Luxembourg.

[@walterross9057]

Ricardo Kakaresma Austria evolved from medieval Bavaria because emperor Frederic Barbarossa split the Bavarian Eastern March off in 1158 and founded the dukedom of Austria (Österreich) to satisfy two rivaling princely lineages who competed for Bavaria. Already earlier Carinthia had been split off. The Bavarian dukes also could not prevent the loss of Styria and Carniola and Tyrol and Salzburg who also got immediate principalities of the Holy Roman Empire. East Upper German dialects are spoken in original "Great" Bavaria from that present Altbayern ("Old Bavaria") and Austria (except Voralberg) and South Tyrol evolved. Because of history linguists of the 19th c. named that segment of the continental West Germanic dialect continuum "Bavarian". Understandably that's not popular in Austria and there the Austrian part of "Bavarian" dialects is called "Austrian". Austro-Bavarian is a compromise term. Dialects change over space. There are not even two equal dialects in different regions.

[@Leo-uu8du]

@@walterross9057 I am austrian and I can clearly hear the difference between bavarian and austrian. Bavarian sounds ugly in my opinion, while all austrian dialects have kind of the same harmonic accent, even though they differ a lot.

[@PeterSchneemann]

you forgot to say something in the language

[@superman-rz3vw]

German Dialect for sure.

[@manimusic6589]

As a Luxembourgish person, I consider it as a language and not a dialect Despite the similarities between Luxembourgish and German, it is a language of its own with dialects and so on. On top of that, a lot of languages are similar to others but still considered as languages

[@integralboi2900]

According to an official website, Luxembourgish used to be a dialect but is became a language in 1984. Here’s the source:luxembourg.public.lu/en/society-and-culture/languages/introduction-letzebuergesch.html Ech sinn e Lëtzebuerger!

[@aryolejandro]

just learn basic standar German and you can easily understand Luxembourgish .

[@dirkvantroyen9170]

"easily" would be a heavy understatement

[@pascalbley3648]

Du bass vum Lämmes gebass! Komplett mëll.

[@pam2692]

My friend says Luxembourgish isn't a language

[@bl4ckbl1zz41]

GreenTurtle XDDDDD IT S

[@chesterpanda]

So it’s like if someone used Spanish words in America, but 90% of it was English. However, they insist it is a separate language.

[@gordonwalker490]

Wat ass eng Dialekt an wat ass eng Sprooch? Ech mengen déi Diskussioun ass relativ onwichteg. An engem Continuum Linguistique ginn eng oder e puer Sproochvarianten kënschtlech als Norm definéiert. D'Sprooche kennen keng Grenzen. Hei ass eng interessant Beispill. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gISYe32jr9mNbbM Awer et ass wichtig déi lokal Sprooch ze behalen. Bei de Preisen huet et leider guer net funktionéiert. Dofir ginn sougenant "Dialekter" meeschtens informell geschwat.

[@germainelux]

Hallo, gudde Mëtteg :). Ech hu mär dee Link ugekuckt an alles gelauschtert a konnt net ophaale mat staunen :) et ass quasi zu 100 % wat mär eis Sprooch nennen. Där hutt vollkomme Recht, d'Diskussioun op Dialekt oder Sprooch ass onwichteg. Op jidde Fall ass et ganz kloer wou dat hierkënnt wat mär zu Lëtzebuerg schwätzen :)

[@maximeschmitt2094]

I know some Germans who pretend that Dutch is a German dialect.

[@vercingetorix2923]

Maxime Schmitt From a linguistic perspective he is actually true. Luxembougish aswell. They are languages from a political standpoint not from linguistic one. Otherwise would you consider the other moselfranconian variations a seperate language aswell? They are diferent variations of a dialect that is part of the west germanic dialectcontinuum.

[@vercingetorix2923]

Walter Ross Exactly!

[@dirkvantroyen9170]

Ah, German arrogance never ceases to impress

[@waltergro9102]

@@dirkvantroyen9170 Did the Dutch and Flemish consider their language a German - "Dutch" - one, didn't they? Just a Low German or Lowland's German one. They called their language(s) Nederduits or Nederlands Duits or just Duits until the 19th c. and often even longer. Nowadays German is mostly used as a shortcut for Standard German, but there was and is a well established original - broader - meaning. Historian Johan Huizinga (The Autumn of the Middle Ages ) replaced "Niederländer" (Netherlanders) by Niederdeutsche (Low Germans) in his lecture "Burgund. Eine Krise des romanisch-germanischen Verhältnisses" (Burgundy. A crisis of the Romanic-Germanic relationship). Johan Huizinga got known for his critical and oppositional stance of Nazism before and during the German occupation of the Netherlands. Luxembourgers, Dutch and Belgians can do whatever please them. German occupation was a grave injustice. But omitting historical facts isn't right.

[@dirkvantroyen9170]

@@waltergro9102 Thank you for the thorough input! I can surely understand that both "German" and "Dutch" are very closely related. I should have pointed out that the one being the dialect of another is incorrect and sounds arrogant.

[@vercingetorix2923]

Messerisch? Su heescht mein dorf!

[@derbengel0759]

Messerisch heißt dein Dorf? 🤔

[@user-nu6ie7ti7g]

Luxemburgisch = German dialect. I am german. I understand it better than swiss german because I live in Hesse. You also use swiss german in formal occassions. Austria is an independent Country but still speaks (austrian) german. Luxemburgish is a dialect!

[@dirkvantroyen9170]

It's not

[@shiftwolf]

Luxemburgisch ist klar ein Dialekt, zumindest linguistisch gesehen. Man kann als Deutscher doch so Einiges verstehen und die Dialekte in deutschen Gebieten um Luxemburg haben auch einen extrem ähnlichen Klang. Politisch gesehen mag das anders aussehen.

[@satan1189]

wolfguard ja aber wir haben wörter due ihr nie erraten könnt, wie paiperléck, keisecker, mubaitz or kou, wann ech geléift

[@walterross9057]

Satan Das gilt für jeden Dialekt in deutschsprachigen Ländern. Der Unterschied zwischen Sprache und Dialekt ist politischer Natur. Erforderlich ist ein entsprechendes Gesetz und Standardisierung. Luxemburg hat aus seinen westmitteldeutschen Dialekten eine nationale Standardsprache gebildet. Also gibt es nun im historischen kontinentalen westgermanischen Dialektkontinuum, das bis ins 19. Jahrhundert von allen als Deutsch/Duytsch/Deitsch/Düütsch bezeichnet wurde, Luxembourgisch als dritte Standartsprache neben Niederländisch und (Hoch)Deutsch. Linguistisch ist sie aber wie die zugrunde liegenden Dialekte Westmitteldeutsch.

[@cesco0356]

Als luxemburger kann ich auch deutsch verstehen das heist deutsch ist jetzt auch ein lixemburgischer dialekt oder wei soll ech dat verstoen?

[@walterross9057]

Wenn Luxemburgisch einmal so großes internationales Prestige erlangt, wie im Mittelalter das als Abgrenzung zum Romanischen so genannte Diutisk oder Diutsch, so werden vielleicht alle sich bisher als niederländisch- und deutschsprachig bezeichnenden Länder dazu übergehen. Zuzugeben ist, daß im Verlaufe des Frühen Mittelalters die gegenseitige Verständlichkeit der westgermanischen Dialekte verloren ging. Aber Deutsch bedeutet nicht nur Hochdeutsch, die deutsche Standardsprache, sondern ist auch der historische Name für die Dialekte, oder wenn's besser gefällt, die Sprachen der "deutschsprachigen Länder", und bis zum 18. Jahrhundert auch aller Varietäten des Niederländischen. So sagten bis vor einigen Jahrzehnten die Luxemburger "Letzeburger Deitsch" oder "unser Deutsch" zu allen Formen des Luxemburgischen. Hätten die Deutschen und Österreicher im 18. Jahrhundert nicht die "Deutschen Lande" in "Deutschland" umbenannt und begonnen, Hochdeutsch als "das Deutsch" anzusehen, und wäre uns der 2. Weltkrieg erspart geblieben, würden allerhand Länder, die früher großen Wert darauf legten, deutsch im alten, historischen Sinne zu sein, nicht so empfindlich auf Bezeichnungen wie deutscher Dialekt oder Sprache reagieren.

[@Leo-uu8du]

@@walterross9057 Österreich hatte bis Anfang 18jhd eine eigene Schriftsprache, welche unterging weil sich durch die Bibelübersetzung die mitteldeutsche Schriftsprache durchsetzte. Der Egoismus der Mitteldeutschen hat diese *Schrift*-sprache zur "wahren deutschen *sprache* " gemacht. Die Österreicher, Bayern, Schweizer, Niedersachsen,... waren auch nur ihre Opfer.

[@AndreasGregorHahn]

Luxemburgisch ist eine moselfränkische Sprachvariätät des Mitteldeutschen, also ein Dialekt.

[@cyrildewaha]

nein

[@avantelvsitania3359]

I don’t agree. Luxembourgish is a German dialect. Arguing that a language is so because it is associated with a State is just politicizing what shouldn’t have anything to do with politics. German has a lot of different dialects, each with their own background and specifications and Luxembourgish shares the same level of distance from standard German with most of them. But that distance doesn’t made them less German, and Luxembourgish isn’t different. It just happen to be spoken on an independent country. Nothing beyond that.

[@johnmelo3712]

All are dialects of Latin...

[@Kikkerv11]

None of the Germanic languages descends from Latin...

[@HBC101TVStudios]

You could classify Romanian as a dialect of Latin along with Italian, Spanish, French and Portuguese, but not the Germanic languages.

[@dirkvantroyen9170]

Of PIE, yes, but not of Latin

[@romainreiffers3330]

letzebuergech as eng sproch ech si letzebuerger an ech si stolz et ze sin , weivill richtech letebuerger bleiwen nach ?alleguer acquple'ert mat nopeschlaenner mais wat maache mer mat den EMIGRANTEN ? si sin nemme gudd fier eis finanzen ze friessen RAUS!!!!!

[@satan1189]

Romain Reiffers et gin déck vill portiguiesen hei

[@leonardosimoes7719]

Ech sinn portugies, wunnen hei zënter 2012 an ech si stollz hei ze liewen. Ech friessen net, sinn jo eng Mënsch!

[@pascalbley3648]

Du Hauli do. Wëlls du net léiwer raus?