Machining a Pair of Flywheels for a Scale Model Galloway Hit & Miss Engine

[@peteengard9966]

A friend of mine had a similar dilemma. He did the center hub on his small lathe then did the outside on his mill using a rotary table. Worked unbelievably well. No runout or wobble. Good job dealing with the chatter.

[@tomtke7351]

Hey KEITH-- howz about a video about how to PROPERLY clean up a lathe following a job. Do you collect shavings to later recycle? Do you use a brush? A cloth? Any cleaning solutions? Any clever strategies or techniques? When might you consider lathe paint touch up? Do you service/lubricate mechanisms every job or every 6mos, or what?

[@Paul-pl4vy]

Unless you are making tonnes of dwarf it’s not worth recycling. It will never be single material and always contaminated. A dealer wouldn’t touch it. If you are into it you could cast your own billets but you need a lot of swarf. It’s 90% air.

[@PorchPotatoMike]

Especially after cutting cast iron. It makes such a mess.

[@richardmerrill4036]

Would it have been possible to lock the wheel down on a deck and mill it? Not as pretty a finish as the lathe I suppose?

[@MrChevelle83]

i throw my swarf in the trash! and im 3 minutes from a friend that owns a scrap yard! why? it aint worth the fuel or calories id burn to move it. and hed laugh and call me an idiot. kieth lives WAY out in the country of south Georgia USA. ive visited his shop (i donated that big round bar that he poured the babbit with on the monster cane mill. if i were him id send the mess to the garbage.

[@davidc6510]

Keith what a great video showcasing the skill to troubleshoot your feed and speeds, damping techniques, and use of a face plate to tackle chatter on a stubborn casting to get it turned down to meet specifications. Awesome job on the work, video, and most of all thanks for sharing!

[@jimfelton1]

Keith, once again, you have worked your way around a problem. This time, it's in the shop and in the video. The audio is stable throughout the video. Thanks for all the hard work.

[@jimc4731]

From the drawing there should be a tool cut at the base of the counterweight where it meets the wheel face. Probably was actually machined to a lesser width than the wheel in the original casting. Small detail, keep up the good work. JIM 🤩

[@Paul-pl4vy]

I’d refer to the hi-lighted note. The casting is not quite as per the Dwg. Keith finished the wheel using the notspe requirements.

[@AlanPecherer]

That was a valuable lesson, switching to the faceplate to knock out of the chatter. Thank you Keith!

[@edsmachine93]

Nice work Keith, the face plate was the game changer. The flywheel looks beautiful. Looks like a piece of Art Work. Makes me think I should use my face plate more.👍 Thanks for sharing. 👍🇺🇸👍

[@carlbyington5185]

Great job Keith !!!! Here in the shop, when I was turning a brake rotor, and the chatter band wasn't doing enough for me, I would stand there with a couple of lead wheel weights (car tire weights) and hold them on the edges, worked fine.

[@samellowery]

Yeah i was thinking that or mounting a wooden arm with weight to drag on it.

[@cannon440]

Using the face plate was the way to go. My only concern would be how much to tighten the clamps (too much, broken spokes-too little, it moves).. Nice job, keep those videos coming.

[@noblsht]

Thanks Keith for continuously putting out videos I consistently keep looking for your videos and happy to see them every time you put them out thanks. Keep up the good work. Your videos are always interesting.

[@generessler6282]

Nice, Kieth. I love (also) watching the steam engine builders elsewhere on YT. For flywheels they say it's most important to spend time centering the _internal_ diameter of the rough casting because it's never machined, so determines the appearance of true running in the end, not to mention balance.

[@paulelliott2861]

Great episode Keith. The Finnish on that completed component is out standing. Thank you so much for your time and expertise. Bringing your passion each week.👏👏👏👏👏

[@SciPunk215]

It was very satisfying to see (and hear) the chatter disappear. It makes perfect sense that those spokes would resonate like that. Good job!!!

[@assessor1276]

Good one Keith - as soon as I saw those skinny spokes my chatter-meter jumped up!

[@user-ju3jt4pe3s]

Nice job on the flywheels. I was shouting "Use a face plate" I was always told that on castings you need to get under the hard surface of the casting with a cut that clears it all. Not just skimming the surface. That was in HSS tool days.

[@CothranMike]

That is especially true with castings where the material is not stress-relieved. The chilled iron can be very hard but the heat treatment draws the carbon back into the body from the chilled edges which helps. The soak time for this is long so expect to pay more unless you plan to do it yourself. Many suppliers offer stress-relieved for a higher price to cover the time and energy used, some include that in the cost rather than a line item, it always pays to check with the supplier and recheck when the castings come in for machining.

[@christopherhurren629]

Great to learn some things to do when you get chatter. I have moved the tool and changed speeds before but never thought about a rubber band. Good to think about limiting vibrations perpendicular to the cutting face.

[@thehammah8444]

I have enjoyed watching you knock out these small/odd jobs thanks!

[@anthonycollin8303]

Interesting watching a rough old casting being turned into a precision machined part, thank you.

[@jamesbonnema1041]

Fun video, useful tips. Thank you for your excellent video!

[@davidcperron]

The interrupted cut at first on the outside diameter was providing impulses that made the wheel ring at one if its resonant frequencies. Once that cut got to be continuous it almost certainly mitigated the ringing.

[@davidcperron]

And your solution to cutting on the faces of the outer wheel was just exactly right. The problem with the wheel, which I think you realized, is that the lightly constrained rim was vibrating like a wave going vertically with respect to the plane of the spokes. Clamping it to a faceplate was actually a better way to mitigate than I was thinking of because it also kept the hub stationary with respect to the plane of the rim and spokes.

[@Ervan-l9v]

Turned out to be a lot of work. Surely more than anticipated.

[@ssboot5663]

Good episode on chatter options! Like!! I'm glad I watched it! I learned something I wouldn't have thought of in my farm shop hobby fixing (using the faceplate)

[@trainman2860]

One of those books in your library should give you the calculation for the optimal speed for cutting the outer edge of that wheel. To get rid of the chatter try mounting the wheel in a faceplate. The spokes will not be strong enough to resist your tool force.

[@michaelleduc219]

Faceplate was a great solution, one I hadn’t thought of. I will store that chatter solution in memory for use on some frustrating project in the future. Thanks!

[@johnquinn3899]

Try, try, try again. Thanks Keith for showing all these suggestions. This looks like a nice project. John

[@paulputnam2305]

Wow Professor, that was stubborn fun!!!

[@desoto3749]

Great.....A good challenge that experience was able to solve. Nicely done.

[@tonyn3123]

Enjoyed the video as well as the real-time issues encountered and resolved. My career was in a different line of work but also involved periodic issues that had to be systematically worked out. Flywheels look nice. Thanks.

[@stevem3413]

Awesome video thanks for sharing your skills and talent

[@richardsurber8226]

Nice work Keith. True to VintageMachinery style you put another machinist back to work. Thanks for producing the video

[@accuracymark]

hydraulic hose weaved through the spokes has worked for me in the past

[@alanchamberlin2384]

Equipment, tooling, problem solving. You have the winning combination

[@m.searay4629]

Nice work! That finish looks great. Thanks for going the extra mile on this project to eliminate the chatter.

[@frankdoner8402]

Like they say, if there's a will, there's a way. Thanks Keith, fine job 👍 😊

[@johnritchie3889]

About the alignment of keyways. The photo showed the counterweights at 180 degrees to each other. The shaft may be milled with keyways 180 degrees apart. I would guess that alignment might be important, but I don’t know if it matters to keep the flywheels balanced.

[@russkepler]

The absolute position of the keyways doesn't matter but it needs to be the same between the flywheels. The crankshaft needs to match so that the flywheel counter weights are clocked 180 degrees from the piston.

[@elmarqo_3448]

Nice job figuring out that chatter problem.

[@davidhudson5452]

Nice job Keith, Bet the engine will run great. Dont mess with Keith wheel

[@guillermocarrillo3959]

We have seen you make up a mandrel setup before but it would have been nice to see you do the whole setup for this operation also.

[@johncloar1692]

Thanks Keith for the video. Nice project thanks again.

[@markbernier8434]

Very educational. Thank you.

[@ChrisBrummitt]

Really enjoyed that vlog Keith- really professional finish as always!

[@frankerceg4349]

Thank you Keith!

[@melshea2519]

Happy Wednesday Keith 😊

[@stevesprouse2388]

Love your problem solving on this one!

[@criswagemansbophadoung8081]

Great tutorial!

[@WillyBemis]

Thanks! This was super helpful!

[@StevenEverett7]

Very enjoyable! Thank you Keith.

[@tpobrienjr]

The eccentric weight built in to the flywheel is a math problem that would have made my head hurt if I'd had to solve it in dynamics class. I think it would be challenging with AutoCAD, too. Thanks for showing that one, sir.

[@robertpearson8798]

Reminds me of one of my high school teachers, “let’s cut the chatter folks”.😆

[@loch1957]

Chatter is the bane of lathe work.

[@don4364]

Hi Keith, You could possibly try a rubber belt like that is used on a brake lathe to keep the ringing down. Harmonic ringing can be quite annoying.

[@alantrimble2881]

I agree. The Ammco 6920 disc brake silencer band (a heavy rubber band with lead weights) may have helped quell the vibration and noise.

[@larrywalker7759]

Another option instead of a face plate for mitigating chatter would be if a 3 or 4 jaw chuck tailstock could be used instead of the conical point live center style that was used herein. The chucked tailstock would add a significant beneficial mass to damp the harmonics tendency. But a chucked tailstock limits the tool post access and that probably means the cutting could only be done on the face opposite the chucked tailstock. Many times a solution to a problem also has its own inherent problems.

[@mrbrown3462]

I did a set of flywheels for a model hit and miss engine a few months ago and I had chatter in mine I found putting a couple layers of rubber hose over the spokes removed most of it but I only turned my hub and outer diameters on the lathe and did all my facing and boring on my millng machine.

[@jamesdavis8021]

Cast iron flywheels give me nightmares.😂Brass is not as bad.When I saw those thin spokes, I knew you were in trouble.

[@mr.b2232]

Thanks Keith 👍😎

[@Ervan-l9v]

Looks like a fun project! More for the end user than you, but still worthwhile in your shop being all cast iron. Carbide tooling has made machining cast iron much easier and predictable.

[@elsdp-4560]

Thank you for sharing. Very nice.👍

[@alstonofalltrades3142]

I can't wait until the day I have a metal lathe and stand there chuffed to bits with the part I just machined. Right now I'm still slogging it out learning to scrape and do the 3 plate method. Blinking hard slow progressing work but worth it.

[@richardrogers567]

Nice work.

[@ljackson8220]

Looks nice

[@frenchcreekvalley]

Could you make a leather brake shoe sort of thing to dampen the vibrations? Maybe clean up with a die grinder held in the tool post?

[@se38005]

19:22 You can never have too many lathes 😃

[@katelights]

On todays episode of Keiths To-Do List....

[@Stitchesandsnaps]

I would have broached the keyway opposite the counterweight to help offset the balance

[@walterplummer3808]

Good morning Keith! I wonder how the average home guy could hope to machine these. Thanks

[@RambozoClown]

Another method that works to get rid of chatter is to cut both sides at once, like a brake lathe cuts brake rotors.

[@Ervan-l9v]

Did you ream that hole dry. Anchor lube works good on reamers.

[@timf6916]

Good job. Nice

[@bobflores]

Perseverance pays off. Any plans to add a DRO to the big lathe? Thanks for the video.

[@madebysteve1738]

HEY KEITH,, not sure if it will help but when turning brake rotors we would use rubber belt with lead weights on it to reduce chatter,, it might help with this,,

[@petegraham1458]

Good solution using the faceplate!

[@ellieprice363]

Thanks for another interesting machining job. I was hoping you would face those sides from the inside out with a sharper tool for less chatter. Does anyone know the purpose of the web between the spokes?

[@Deg99]

Try using bike tire tubes (cut and wrapped around piece) to absorb the resonance....I've used this trick numerous times with success, machining brake drums which want to chatter something terrible... just a thought? 🙂

[@zuke-ci4vd]

To add some class to my project, I would have you stamp them "Flywheels Turned By Keith Rucker"! 😎👍

[@garybrenner6236]

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@rl3898]

I think I can see a depth for that edge , it is measured from the hub on each side.

[@RichieCat4223]

4:20 It was chucked up to a tapered casting?

[@ratdude747]

I'd think the keyway clocking is to some degree critical to maintain crank balance... the counter weights are likely to offset the angular mass of the crank pin. That said, the engine likely doesn't run all that fast, so it's not critical enough that one would need to balance the assembly like they do for "modern" engines (with weight reduction holes and bobweights).

[@chrissmith513]

Interesting 😊😊😊

[@TheLemonhawk]

Do fly wheels scale down easily, or do they need to be a little heavier that a simple scale down ratio?

[@Ervan-l9v]

A negative rake angle will possibly help the chatter problem.

[@steveward53]

I think the table on the press needs tightening sir , I was waiting for that broach to snap ....

[@Gary-V16]

Yup. I watched wearing safety glasses, just in case. :-)

[@ellieprice363]

What you saw was the tendency of the broach to shift slightly sideways when first entering the bore. When this happens pressure must be slightly released to allow the broach to realign with the bore. Once aligned the tool is plenty strong enough to complete the stroke without breaking.

[@garybrenner6236]

@@ellieprice363 The only problem is this Bozo almost never releases the pressure!

[@steveward53]

@@ellieprice363 I know what's happening , and if you look closely (@17:43) you can clearly see that it shifts sideways because the 'table' is not bolted firmly to the frame and flexes initially when the first bit of pressure is applied , were it bolted tightly in position then there would be no flex and the pressure would be applied vertically therefore not causing the broach to shift slightly.

[@lycanthropej]

is it necessary to balance the weight of the 2 fly wheels?

[@bernardwill7196]

It's a scale model , so think errors scale also .

[@kensherwin4544]

The flywheels are unbalanced on purpose to counteract the weight of the piston and rod flying back and forth. At full scale, the entire engine would be balanced as an assembly.

[@robertpearson8798]

@@kensherwin4544 I was wondering that myself. Makes sense.

[@robertpearson8798]

@@kensherwin4544 If that’s the case then the placements of the keyways in relation to the counterweighted portion of the wheel and the placement of the keyways on the crankshaft would indeed be important, so he was correct to follow the drawings.

[@kensherwin4544]

@@robertpearson8798 You can also notice that he didn't obsess over how closely he lined up that keyway. If he missed it 5 degrees, it would throw off the balance effectiveness by less than 1/2 of 1%. It mattered but close was plenty good enough.

[@johnpublic168]

Wooden block or rubber band for vibration.

[@lnchgj]

General Question. When using a key-way broach, what causes it to form a tapered slot? (Front to back) (Using hydrophilic press)

[@garybrenner6236]

Another question, what the h**l is a "hydrophilic" press?

[@lnchgj]

@@garybrenner6236 Beats me. Lets just say spelling isn't my strong suit. 🙂 I guess I should go dry my press now...

[@CothranMike]

​@garybrenner6236 Hydo, water. Philic, loves generally. In this case has a strong affinity for or is attracted to. So this means water loving. What the General Question meant might be hydrology but more than likely he means hydraulic press. The taper to which he is referring is caused by many things done wrong. Take your pick from this list... keyway mandrill too short, crowded broach with a poor screw jack (wobbly and poorly seated), malformed broach or badly maintained teeth, using a tapered mandrill, hard spots in the castings from entrained or trapped junk-tooling debris-broken burrs due to rushed sifting or no sifting of the used sands.

[@tomjewett5839]

I'm just wondering if the length of the mandrel shaft would have made a difference in the chatter.

[@jameswood9764]

Chuck on ODwith three jaw chuck??

[@SgtCude59]

Should the outside of the wheel be crowned so the belt rides in the center

[@josefcotorreslopez8167]

I always try to do the part at once or move the part as few times as possible. On the first one you can turn the inside and outside of the core and the outside of the flywheel. Also clean up the face and everything is perfectly concentric. Then you flip it over and you can center on the outside of the flywheel and the inside of the core. Mounting the flywheel on the thin shaft is the cause of the vibrations. Not a good idea. A 4 claw chuck is not faster to center than the flat chuck.? Greetings.

[@LuggageStardate]

The problem was with the part having weight as counterbalance to the piston arm or whatever. There are ways to balance the stuff but usually involve adding weights to the table anyway.

[@butter262]

Good morning

[@ddblairco]

very nice

[@masteruniverse3506]

What is the reason for the off-center weight on the flywheel?

[@emmajnation-emma]

To help counterbalance the weight of the conrod big end and crankshaft rod journal, maybe.

[@drewmog123456]

When you put the diameter in the dro, and take say 40 thou, how do you account for the 80 thou actually taken off?

[@andreblanchard8315]

Most DROs for lathes let you select whether the X axis reads diameter or radius.

[@Earl-vo7gf]

I've always thought that's pretty much a call at Chuck they just don't have the rigidity

[@mrfixit992]

Looks like U use Kevlar?😅

[@ProfessorMAG]

This Project could have been accomplished on a rotary table mounted to a milling machine very easily.

[@RDBuilt-ev6oy]

I was screaming, try a high speed steel cutter.

[@garybrenner6236]

Another episode of " The most complicated A** Backwards way to do a simple job"! What a hack job!

[@DoktorBayerischeMotorenWerke]

The keyway should have been indexed with TDC/BTC and matched to the CoG of the counterweight on a static balancer..

[@kevinwayne7546]

cool