How Did The Traitors Legions Lose The Horus Heresy? | Warhammer 40k Lore

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Horus had the element of surprise, better weapons, the might of Chaos and more on his side when he initiated the Horus Heresy, so how did he lose so badly?
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[@majorkill]

TLDR : he became bald... bald white men always lose To see something bald that isn't a mans head go here : www.patreon.com/majorkill

[@Hinokassaudifan1]

Of course being bald is a reason too.

[@JammesJammes]

Shuush spoilers

[@trentdickerson2149]

Bro Bruce Willis?

[@ChillAssTurtle]

Me a bald white man: is a loser

[@casbot71]

I take that personally (the bald white guy - not the 🐔👔).

[@im2randomghgh]

Tzeentch using Magnus to break the Webway was definitely the biggest move the traitors ever made. Imagine the siege, but with 9000 more Custodes, the Emperor and Vulkan defending the walls, plus the mechanicus.

[@bestnameever1850]

i sweat if that happened like 6 custodes wouldve shit stomped horus plus magnus would still be loyal so he could sit on the golden throne while the empeor shit mixed the entire chaos force

[@im2randomghgh]

@@bestnameever1850 the Emperor at fully power would have been much more able to keep the daemons at bay too! That would leave loyal Magnus to throw mind bullets at my Horus's fleet. Without daemons the Phalanx could've fought in the solar war, too.

[@De_La_Evo]

and the thousand sons being loyal too

[@Internetbutthurt]

Dude Chaos was not at full strength either...more than half the Titan legions went to Horus. Titans level cities, 9000 Custodes really not going to do much

[@De_La_Evo]

@@Internetbutthurt one custodes could massacre a whole city's population efficiently and with less fuel wasted. And I mean the whole city is filled with battle-ready berserkers

[@Grabthar191]

The more they dedicate themselves to Chaos the more chaotic they became. It's tough to organize people who are being corrupted to disorder. So although you have a lot of power to bring to bear they keep wandering off to do their own chaotic thing. Like the Emperor's Children running around trying to make weird drugs out of people rather than attacking the loyal forces.

[@casbot71]

"If only the Anachist could get themselves organised?"

[@MR.LMR1996]

Aye. If half the Traitor Legions that attacked Terra during the climax of the Heresy weren't on the Chaos Coolaid - like how the Iron Warriors were basically carrying the siege since they were still sober and not running around doing their own thing like the Emperor's Children and World Eaters - chances are the traitors would've won if it weren't for them.

[@HubiKoshi]

Which also shows why Guilliman was the best First Primarch to Return, choice. He is the Demigod of Logistics!

[@BoneTrait]

Okay Perturabo.

[@rexlumontad5644]

@@BoneTrait For a guy who rejects Chaos Gods, he became a Daemon Prince of the Undivided

[@higsbymacguffin3982]

I think Perturabo had another hidden primarch "power" that prevents literally anybody in his universe from appreciating him.

[@robertnelson9599]

That is not a primarch power, it is called "smelling of dirt and entitlement".

[@alekwhite5560]

Lol

[@Alex-mp5xe]

​@robertnelson9599 soil can smell surprisingly decent. Entitlement on the other hand, no.

[@wesspect]

@@Alex-mp5xewhat about entitled soil? some dirt thinks it’s better than me

[@Eta_Carinae__]

When you read Mortis, you see that Perturabo, despite having his station as essentially the Grand Commander of the siege about to be usurped by Mortarion, didn't leave out of underappreciation. You know this because he already saw it coming - the influence of chaos was corrupting his ability to control the siege. He'd given up well before then, just sort of sitting there, letting the data wash over him - as Forrix put it - resigned already to not be in control anymore. In that situation, he knew that it would be sensible to let someone who could direct the warp-tides flow. That it even had to be done like this is what pissed him off. Across several authors we see Perturabo join Horus because he sees him as 'honourable', and that he trusts Horus, and keeps to him because of such honour - it's kind of his anchor to motivate his treachery. That anchor crumbles when Horus elects to employ, to Perturabo, a wholly dishonourable manner of warfare, by way of demons and the mutilations of the body and mind that are the currently chaos-dedicated legions. That shit genuinely inspires anger in him. When it becomes the crux of the siege, to Perturabo - and also Abaddon really - that is when Horus took away what victory meant for him. Not humbling Dorn, not "being appreciated", not killing the emperor, but having someone on the throne leading humanity who was honourable. He knows that couldn't be him, despite his ego from shittier authors: we see that in his reaving of Olympia, and the fallout on his own soul from that. At that moment to him, no being in the whole universe was fit to rule humanity. I really hope that they explore the ramifications of that fact for him in the scouring; maybe it could give us some nice wholesomeness before he turns demonic, kinda like what McNeill did for Magnus.

[@mkno2799]

Agree with almost everything you said, except for failddon the armless. His an even bigger chaos tool than Horus.

[@Eta_Carinae__]

@@mkno2799 Competence notwithstanding, you do see Abaddon in Saturnine express his frustrations along the same lines as Perturabo. At first it seems like a ploy to manipulate Perturabo to employ the Saturnine gambit - Perturabo gets pissed off for that reason - but you see throughout the novel, especially when he has his giant combat scene in the thick of it, how much sorrow he feels having had his honour as a warrior stripped away, and after feeling likewise at Perturabo for having manipulated _him_ to employ the Saturnine gambit, he feels gratitude to him, for letting him die as a warrior, instead of living with the victory they might have attained, but not _won._

[@RocRolDis]

Imagine if Peter Turbo came back and was anti-chaos. Not loyalist, but dedicated to crushing the chaos legions

[@mkno2799]

@@Eta_Carinae__ Shame we don't see that side often. Who's your favourite traitor legion by the way and why?

[@Eta_Carinae__]

@@mkno2799 I think it depends on when he's been written by Dan Abnett vs. when he's written by someone who isn't... Dan Abnett. I came at Warhammer 40k/30k initially from Black Libraries Horus Heresy, on the recommendation from the late TotalBiscuit - my first books were Angel Exterminatus and Betrayer, so I have a fairly irrational love for the Iron Warriors and World Eaters, but to me they embody the distilled character of the setting, sans the religious zeal: the tragedy, the horror of the meat-grinder, the expedience of human life and that resignation to endless war, but under the purview of _real_ characters.

[@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623]

The problem of Chaos has always been Chaos itself. For all the talk of Chaos Undivided Chaos has always been divided. The only reason that Chaos even stands a chance against the Imperium has been that the Imperium had so many fronts and fish to fry. Without the Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Nids, Tau and Necrons to contend with the Imperium could have steamrolled any Black Crusade coming out of the Eye.

[@christiandauz3742]

Kharn has been butchering the Imperium for 10k years without dying once The guy has slaughtered entire Chapters, Regiments, Sisterhoods, Knightholds and Mechanicus Freak Shows

[@rexlumontad5644]

Chaos is the byproduct of the War in Heaven where the Realm of Souls got so corrupted it turned into the Warp - a hotbed for the manifestation of Chaos there after all. And it made the Horus Heresy barely a blip on the radar.

[@benjaminhartsock3281]

@@christiandauz3742 Draigo has been butchering Chaos for 10k years without dying once. The guy has slaughtered warbands, cults, demon planets, greater demons, demon primarchs, and dark mechanicus freak shows

[@christiandauz3742]

@@benjaminhartsock3281 Sure... (Sarcasm) Kharn has slaughtered entire Hive Worlds without dying once

[@benjaminhartsock3281]

@@christiandauz3742 Yeah, I know. Draigo has slaughetered entire Demon Worlds my guy. Dude shattered Tzeentch's impossible maze, fought his way to Khorne's throne, burned down one of Nurgle's Garden's, and spited Slaanesh to her face. Kharn is one of the strongest space marines. He's nowhere close to THE strongest tho.

[@Tulkash01]

As everyone said, chaos is simply the antithesis of order (or law in the really old WH lingo) and the more one dedicates himself to chaos, the more erratic his behaviour becomes. Once upon a time it was stated pretty clearly that chaos space marines are individually more powerful than their loyalist counterparts but they are way worse at working together and following any kind of shared strategy for more than 5 minutes straight. It takes exceptional circumstances and exceedingly powerful leaders to make several warbands work together and even then their alliance is tenuous at best.

[@From-North-Jersey]

Well stated except for not going far enough, getting one chapter of Chaos Marines to cooperate with itself must require herculean effort and border on impossible, getting more than one of them to cooperate with each other would require divine intervention at the minimum.

[@Tulkash01]

@@From-North-Jersey with the introduction of Chaos undivided (which happened in WHFB first and was then ported to 40K) some 20 years ago GW actually provided a way for the warbands to work together: it’s the rarest of events, when the 4 great powers set their differences aside and align. It never lasts long but the damage when it happens is incommensurable

[@midrovar5811]

thats why traitors loose, even it pains me agreeing that the nerds are individualy stronger than my wolves. It still makes me happy to know that the wolves can overcome any hardship, even stronger like CSM

[@crimsonitacilunarnebula]

chaos is chaotic evil

[@bobjohnson1633]

Chaos only seems to lack order until you learn how chaos IS order.

[@logangrimnar3800]

Sanguinius: *killed by Horus* Blood Angels: "It's Morbin time"

[@alphariusomegon7374]

And then they morbed all over

[@thathandsomedevil0828]

The world eaters basically went berserk mode after witnessing Angron get killed in front of them. They have been in rage mode ever since.

[@Necroxion]

Perturabo: okay guys good job taking out the enemy's allies, I'm at the objective with 99% capture meter, let's finish this! Fulgrim, jungling for civilians to turn into space cocaine: Magnus respawning while his sons keep getting Thanos'd in front of him: Kurze just AFK: Alpharius and Omegon trolling the entire time: Angron getting tilted 24/7: Lorgar getting kicked for toxicity: Horus and Mortarion actually helping, but Horus drank chaos god bath water and Morty has space ligma: Perturabo: you know what, f*** this [FistFucker69 has left the match]

[@lolbots686]

Morty:ok im back and....oh. oh no. Horus? ...perty left. Horus:.... Morty:horus? Horus?:gg motherfucker,i took him with me. Morty:...god damm it.

[@cactusmann5542]

Pretty much. Magnus is spectator, Alpharius and Omegon dicking around the map, Angron is playing DOOM, Fulgrim is busy jacking off, Kurze is suffering from depression, Lorgar just spams text so is in time out. Horus splits up and gets killed, Mortation is playing with flue and cant play no more. Perturabo just tired of carrying the team after no one is putting effort.

[@ramblingcollector3165]

Okay, this was just brilliant! 🤣

[@ryancole9304]

Underrated comment 😭😂

[@winterknight4307]

Lmao 🤣 this is the best 🤣

[@blacklighthologram5339]

The fact these always seem to come out when I’m at the gym gives me even more motivation to get that primaris build.

[@commando5872]

You better be building yourself up to look like Logar

[@guyver441]

lat pull downs, FTW

[@Aostreet1]

My guy forgot to say that Alpha legion attacked Terra prematurely in order to show Dorn and his boys the weaknesses of Terra’s defence. Hydra Dominatus

[@jeffreypeters7225]

No. They did it to trigger the hidden defenses. They didn't do anything too direct, which is why they lost so hard.

[@bencastor9207]

​@@Jimothyjohnsbut victory...

[@ArnoldJudasRimmer..]

​​@@bencastor9207superb retort sir 👏 *...as Storms Teeth roars instantly to life VROOM VROOOOOM*

[@MrWol]

"It's all part of the plan..." -every man to call himself Alpharius

[@RogueFox2185]

Once Perturabo left the siege of Terra it was basically GG’s for the Traitor Legions, he was hard carrying the others who were heavily succumbing to the side effects of Chaos.

[@alexanderjohnson6178]

Yeah Perty was pretty much the only thing keeping the siege going by the time he left after that everything just fell apart

[@mattiaslime8926]

if he will overcome the depression caused by his undesired ascension to deamonhood he woll become a huge threat for the loyalist

[@ShadrackMeduson]

i read that on mortis and i got to say his reasons for leaving were baddly developed. The whole thing started when horus decided to attack the wall with all their titan might and perturabo was againts it because he believed there was no way they could penetrate win that fight but horus forced him to do so. But the thing is horus was right, the plan did actualy worked so it seems perturabo left for nothing. It would have been beter if the iron warriors had participated on the battle, suffered terrible casuaties and then perturabo had decided to leave at the end of the book instead of the beguining. It felt rushed to me. Besides there was no reaction from dorn at all about perturabo leaving. This whole thing was a fight between dorn and perturabo and when he leaves he is not even acknowledged by the loyalists.

[@hydromancer4916]

That was the cool thing about perty. He was the traitor who wasn't absolutely fucked in the head with chaos. But then GW went and had him become a daemon prince for some damn reason.

[@christiandauz3742]

Daemon Primarch Perty is Old Lore dumbass like Sanginius dying on Terra Honsou met Perty

[@meisterhyperion207]

You have also forgotten that chaos wanted Horus to lose. The Gods got exactly what they wanted. A crippled Imperium with no rational leadership. And the worship of millions because of an unnecessarily cruel government.

[@starhammer5247]

You give Chaos too much credit. The only one that would even bother to think ahead and plan is Tzeentch. Nurgle doesn't give a shit, he's happy as he is no matter how dead the galaxy is. Slaanesh would've been content with fucking themselves with the souls collected floating around in the warp, not thinking about the consequences of their actions. Khorne is fucking crazy, all he wants is blood to be spilled and rage to be rampant. The only one that is capable of thinking long-term is Tzeentch.

[@meisterhyperion207]

@@starhammer5247 the chaos God are in many ways way smarter than any mortal being. They live in a realm that has no time. You can also see, in plague war, that Nurgle for example can plan ahead. He is all of the demons he created after all. Yes Tzeentch might be the smartest. But from an insect perspective it's like seeing Einstein and a normal guy, they can't comprehend the difference between their intelligence because their intellect is so much smaller.

[@callumfinlayson-palmer8393]

@@meisterhyperion207 yeah even korne the often most straightforward god knows that blindly charging into the enemy isn't always best for bloodshed. The gods want to feed at the most energy and so having a little patience for a better feeding ground to form makes sense.

[@licensed_beheader]

They genuinely wanted the emperor dead tho . They probably doubted Chaos Horus could permakill him so they settled with crippling him. Plus him watching the atheistic imperium he had built burn as a god likely had tzeentch rolling and choking in laughter for a millenia or two

[@nicolasberg6828]

@@licensed_beheader well, this joke may backfire hard, as the emperor is getting more and morr powerful

[@rexlumontad5644]

8:45 Sanguinius: "Hello nephews, how's your health plan?" Traitor Legions: *attack and charge!* Sanguinius: "Apparently it was great!"

[@resumethyvideo7631]

Sanguinius in Alucard’s clothes and a demented smile is a WONDERFUL image

[@collecter343]

For once he can finally let loose

[@Internetbutthurt]

Sanguinius is massively overrated. Gets left for dead by KaBandha and Horus doesnt break a sweat against him.

[@ashraffhashrin4196]

@@Internetbutthurt I think his sons might disagree with that

[@guyver441]

@@Internetbutthurt That's like saying "Vegeta is overrated because Frieza killed him." The most powerful beings fighting still leave winners & losers, it can't all be contrived stalemates.

[@aceshigh1984]

And not to forget that without some Alpha Legion fuckery, Horus wouldn't have gotten an outdated map and Dorn wouldn't have upgraded the defenses of Terra and the imperial palace.

[@MrFallenone]

Pretty sure Horus knew the plans were fake. But Dorn did indeed do more fortificating.

[@jeffreypeters7225]

That is exactly opposite of what happened and it is silly that fake name accounts spread it. Read the books.

[@znalniaskas]

Perturabo and Mortarion carried the whole siege on their backs. About Fulgrim, even if his Legion was useless, he manage to kill another Primarch one on one, that evens things out. Also, the Word Bearers were not (only) more f***ed up, they were designed to b extra loyal to their Primarch.

[@xxunphasedxx]

One little nitpick, I could be completely wrong though but I thought the Iron Hands were not reduced 95% at isvann V. Ferrus took his most elite troops and fastest ships with him. Most were left behind, only about 40-60% of the iron hands were on Istvann which is why the shattered legions numbers comprised mostly of Iron Hands following the massacre. The shattered legions slowed the traitors down quite a bit and were actually quite essential in the end seeing as it was all about time. Great Video though!

[@MrAqminor]

Chaos being Chaos couldn't have been avoided, but Horus was in a bad spot on the final push to Terra. He had to attack because he knew the ultramarines were on there way, and he really didn't want them coming after the traitors. He mentioned several times how them entering the war would have been really bad news. So he didn't have a ton of time to consolidate. It's never described how much the lion messing up homeworlds hurt the chaos effort, or the iron hands attacking their fleet.

[@alfieingrouille1528]

Majorkill you should make a video on the what the roles of each primarch would be if they all stayed loyal I know other youtubers have made videos on this topic but your opinions could be wildeldly different from theirs I would love to see it

[@robertnelson9599]

We know what Guilliman, Magnus, Russ, Dorn, Angron and Kurze would be. The others are kind of tough though.

[@antoinecyr2833]

I bet alpharius and Omegon would be the leader of some sort of emperor secrete police

[@trunkage]

​@@antoinecyr2833 They would probably secretly support Choas despite being loyal in an intricate plan to improve the Imperium through nonsense no one can understand

[@Fordo007]

@@antoinecyr2833 Either them or Konrad would be leading a version of the Inquisition.

[@RanTurner]

Can you provide a channel that has done this? Would enjoy watching that!

[@jastermereel8379]

Also problematic for Horus was that Corvus and the guard kind of recovered half their strength and led an Guerilla warfare behind his lines that drew conquered planets to Rebell against Horus and cost him resources and power. That’s also a reason why he rushed terra, dude couldn’t fight a war of attrition. Horus is pretty much like the csa. Aaah and then there is molech the planet Horus got super saiyajin and set his life to a deadline xD

[@spookyghostwriter3110]

Reminder at 6:30 that the Battle of Prospero was an even bigger advantage- an entire legion of loyal marines and their auxilieries flattened with the survivors turned to Chaos, a second loyal legion mauled. The biggest own goal in the whole Heresy.

[@Jimothyjohns]

The Battle of Prospero did flatten the Space Wolves. It weakened them, but it wasn’t the massacre you’re saying it was

[@C00kiesAplenty]

@@Jimothyjohns It flattened the Thousand Suns, who were loyal up until that point.

[@Jimothyjohns]

@@C00kiesAplenty I misunderstood your comment. But yeah, Horus was a genius changing the plans so that 1000 sons would betray Emps

[@xavier84623]

I thought it was alpharius who was the loyal one, as revealed by the new book, he grew up on terra and only took the name omegon when they found his twin, and he took his own name back after omegon death.

[@ismaeljimenez6562]

Hydra dominatus

[@casbot71]

What were the Eldar doing during all this? Did they just sit back and go WTF? And what if they (or just some of them) decided to get involved on the side of the Loyalist? In fact, why didn't they? They knew the risk of Chaos, and having the Imperium fall completely to Chaos would not be good for the Eldar.

[@starkill97]

They were in the middle of a massive blood orgy and creating a new chaos god

[@spookymaddy2599]

They did try to kill a child, Angron. At the time of the heresy I also believe that the Eldar along with other races had been getting stomped by the legions. Even if they weren’t such low numbers I don’t really know the actual impact an Eldari force would do against rioded up astartes with a huge fleet.

[@ShadrackMeduson]

the elder tried to kill angron before he turned into a deamon prince, they failed miserably. They also tried to kill lorgar, failed again. And also wasted like tons of troops againts a joint force of the iron hands, death guard and salamanders just to try to get to ferrus manus and warn him about the fall of fulgrim in the most idiotic way possible. They also were involved in a shadow war againts the cabal. a group of xenos similar to a federation that wanted to manipulate the result of the war by convincing alpharius to do their biding (until he betrayed them and decided to do what he wanted) the eldar eliminated the cabal and let their colaborators (john gramaticus) to try to change the result of the war thinking that only humanity could save the galaxy from chaos.

[@rexlumontad5644]

Eldrad did try to warn Fulgrim about Chaos but then discovered the latter is already corrupted by Slaaneshi daemon within the sword.

[@c0ya1]

The Eldar probably had a big "we warned ya" moment, during the Horus Heresy.

[@nahhfam7678]

As a big custodes stan, I like to imagine a demon fighting tooth and nail to take the walls of the Imperial Palace against the Astartes defenders then wondering what that gold thing in the distance coming really really fast is and why the doom 2016 soundtrack getting louder and louder.

[@azmiraclegirl441]

"No. *Fucking.* Disciple!" - Perturabo, midway through the Siege of Terra

[@mcarrowtime7095]

Little comment about the claim around 2:30 about the AP bolted rounds. According to the Horus heresy books, there were solid shot rounds for the boters before Horus was injured. In fact, there was a specific conversation that loken had about wether to use the anti armor or anti personnel rounds before the battle where Horus was wounded

[@dudeboydudeboy-zj8kd]

video idea : lore on the imperial navy, what is heresy, ecclesiarchy, the ages of the imperium (age of rebirth, forging, nova terra, age of redemption, the waning, time of ending, age of the dark imperium/era indomitus), the imperial army (precursor to the imperial guard and navy) tau sphere of expansion, eldar paths, and every single type of squigs

[@Ray-yv7kn]

Squigs first.

[@Ghost3210]

Skaven in Fantasy are a great example of the strength and weaknesses of Chaos. You have the strongest power in theory and could easily win, but in reality the nature of Chaos is sabotaging itself. Chaos is it's own worst enemy.

[@darrenwang8879]

The best visualisation of this issue is the battle of Thermopylae where the disorderly Persians were crushed before the tactically sound and organised Spartans. Organisation allows your army's strengths to be best employed and your weaknesses best hidden. This is why the loyalist primarchs and their legions are more powerful than the traitor ones.

[@magicmanscott40k]

The loyalists weren't at full strength cuz the primarchs said themselves that a good chunk of them are scattered around on different planets. The ones that were too far from terra were told to stay there just in case. As for the traitors, the demons and mass suicides by the guard I think made up for the lack of space marines. Plus the traitors still had the mortis titans.

[@MrFallenone]

Pretty sure the Titan forces were close to equal in strength especialy when you consider Terra was defended by the Legio of Psyker titans that are almost immortal.

[@magicmanscott40k]

@@MrFallenone all the titans got killed in warhawk except the traitor ones. The pskyer ones died too. Got possessed I think. There might be some back up ones but idk. Seems bleak

[@Stringfellow-xo6do]

@@MrFallenone The traitors assaulted the Inner Palace and breached the Mercury wall using the entire intact and warp empowered legio Mortis, over 100 reanimated demon titans from the battlefields of the "titan death", and a group of newly deployed Warmaster titans. Against them was legio Ignatum, a few legio Gryphonicus titans (main strength deployed elsewhere) and the remnants of the shatter loyalist titan legions that survived the "titan death". The Psy titans, if I remember the lore, were only about 30 in number and I not sure they deployed their full strength at the Palace. Warp fuckery played a big part too, disrupting the wall guns efficiency but in terms of titans, the loyalist were out numbered and out gunned.

[@galaxy-wg1lf]

Here's an idea. What was each primarch's preferred formal/non armor outfit before the Horus heresy

[@guyver441]

I'm picturing Rogal Dorn in a classy Armani suit, Angron in a Conan loincloth, Sanguinius in a red & gold ruffle shirt... That's all I got.

[@galaxy-wg1lf]

@@guyver441 i fully believe that when he was not in the armor, Big E was in a casual robe and sandals

[@synergy8879]

@@galaxy-wg1lf and that fulgrim was in drip supreme mindset

[@galaxy-wg1lf]

@@synergy8879 purple golf robe

[@ben-chan420]

@@synergy8879 Lol he'd probably walk around looking like a Crown Royal bag

[@L00ww]

holy emperor, that was a fantastic summary and presentation of the traitor legions! nice one

[@_.alex.-]

This was a fuggin' excellent video and basically a very compressed and accurate lol abridged version of the Horus Heresey books I've been listening too. Legend. Respect for continually putting out quality content. GG fam.

[@varun009]

The way I see it is, when it comes to chaos, winning is losing. Unending war is more chaotic than domination.

[@adventarchivist5789]

So Majorkill. Do you have any plans in the future for videos on the other two chaos champions you haven't talked about, Typhus and Ahriman? I think Typhus could have a video on how unlikable he is as a character. Meanwhile, Ahriman could have his own video on either how powerful or misunderstood he is. Just spitballing of course.

[@mkno2799]

I would love a video about Typhus. I always saw him as being a more complex and interesting version of the armless failure. Yes his unlikeable and yes his a Saturday morning cartoon villain. But once you read lore about the death guard, the Horus Heresy and his relationship with Morty. You can't help but "get" him.

[@MrFallenone]

Well Typhon is hafl xenos... it is to be expected.

[@Inquisitor_Vex]

Always top tier content from Majorkill

[@SafetySoundsOfficial]

Traitors lost Pertaurbo, Big GGs with that.

[@phamnhat2925]

You forgot to mention that Horus was also no longer playing a full deck, he was shifting between being himself and being a slave possessed by the Chaos gods, to the point that Abaddon started showing contempt for him.

[@casbot71]

What if? _Video idea_ *What if the traitors won?* What would the Imperium look like under Chaos? And how would it affect the rest of the Galaxy? The Eldar may be in trouble as Humanity would be all out to get them, not just being on again off again. And then there's the Tau. A Chaos Imperium would be a issue for most of the Xenos.

[@robertnelson9599]

Look at worlds in the Eye of Terror to know what would happen if Horus had won.

[@christiandauz3742]

What Archaon did prior to Age of Sigmar Horus ascends and conquers the Multiverse!

[@g.sergiusfidenas6650]

Such thing as a Chaos Imperium would not exist even if Horus had won, they were already at each other's throat before even winning the war, splitting the spoils would had shattered whatever unity they had left and another civil war would had ensued, the material world would become just another map for the Chaos gods to play their eternal Game, maybe they would unite for a while from time to time to fight Tyranids or Tau if they ever become big enough threats and then come back to fight among themselves.

[@rexlumontad5644]

Then everyone is screwed and suffers horribly. The End.

[@RageTyrannosaurus]

I don't see how your description differs much from the regular Imperium. They're already murderously xenophobic, that just sounds like more of the same. I think it would implode, with some claiming to be the Imperium, despite fighting each other, and others either claiming to be new states or just becoming roving bands of terror.

[@nustde00]

By the Emperor, such HERESY!! Listen sir. With Respect. The Traitors disadvange is that they were traitors, they never stood a chance being build on their lack of loyalty. The Alpha Legion was a major part of that. Angron really just wanted to kill, Perturabo was busy checking to see if people were noticing he was crying a lot, the cyclops was conflicted and good in the end kinda, Fulgrim just wanted people to smooch his pickle, Horus himself was a badass but not enough and really, he is all he had. Chaos never stood a chance because Chaos is just that. "chaos indeed."

[@jamescourt6554]

TO HELL WITH THE IMPERIUM!!!!!

[@madkaris7224]

10:30 WTF is under the emperor sword ?

[@B1-997]

I was about to comment the same thing too.

[@KreigWes]

Just seen this comment after mine but for real man, wtf lol?

[@TheSilverDragon1]

I always thought it was because the choas gods dont want to win. The longer a war rages, the better for them. Can you imagine what the god of killing would do if his side actually wiped out the imperiam?

[@konradcurze4541]

I think Alpharius is still the loyalist. If I remember correctly from the Alpharius novel he and Omegon switch spots and he allowed Omegon to run the legion

[@andreasmagnussengriis6539]

Horus wound was healed by the time of the siege. It happens when his librarian advisor kills part of Horus soul fighting Chaos. The spear wound reminded Horus who he was. A wound of the soul, held open by something good in him. In the book that part of him is killed, and the wound is stated to finally heal.

[@Dsaberguy]

Guys, can we agree that Conrad would be best primarch to return. He be loyal but not trusted and Guilliman would have a crusade with loyal night lords. And at the end would reveal a loyalist that is traitor.

[@callumfinlayson-palmer8393]

I think conrad is dead dead, well unless the Emperor is revived and does some cloning nonsense.

[@MrFallenone]

@@callumfinlayson-palmer8393 Pretty sure hes either stuck in an Eldar soul stone or just sulking in a corner and the head the assassin took was of a meat puppet he was making at the time.

[@dudemcfurgusson7179]

@@MrFallenone I like to imagine Conrad is still alive, and he's just cruising the galaxy like a post-apocalyptic batman. Maybe he's even found a friend to do vigilante stuff with.

[@thecoolerjon3506]

You know, when you put it like that. Its surprising the traitors did as well as they did on terra

[@josephquinnswolin3500]

Majorkill will always be my source of 40k lore

[@androgynbun]

These may be stupid questions but the Horus Heresy books are almost impossible to get in my country: 1 at one point was it referred to as the Heresy? Since Big E didn't like religious stuff. And 2 was Horus aware that the Custodes were busy or was he just lucky there?

[@robertnelson9599]

I think Dorn called it a heresy at one point.

[@kharnt.betrayer2946]

I've read all but 2 of the Heresy books, all the Siege of Terra books and a couple of the Primarchs books and my answer to question 1.) would be No. Throughout the Siege of Terra books the religious elements of the Imperium have their origin story but it wasn't until the Emperor was permanently on the golden throne that he became an official religious icon, it's referred to as a Heresy in 40k because by then the Emperor is considered a God without question. Question 2 is trickier as the book Master of Mankind does show traitor astartes attacking in the tunnels alongside the daemons, with titan support. Whether this was fully known about by Horus I'm not sure.

[@Schwartzbruder1]

Calling Horus' rebellion a "heresy" like a religious event doesnt come til way way later.

[@rejectx7798]

Honestly there’s a lot of “Convenient” timing that worked against the forces of Chaos, and a lot of plot armor going to the Loyalist that made the whole Heresy look like Super Bowl 51 where Chaos happened to be the ATL Falcons.

[@guyver441]

Yeah, I think the real reason the Horus Heresy failed would be more accurately summed up: "Things looked great for the heresy...until they fucking didn't! The setting needed them to lose, the end."

[@domchappell4775]

This is where the whole “chaos wanted the heresy to fail” theory comes in

[@Azzie420]

Plot armour plus Pius’s big balls... simple

[@robertceliz6310]

Sometimes i don't know who's taller horus or vulcan

[@jaguarholly7156]

So basically the loyalists opperated like a sensible military and the traitors were lead by my last 5 league of legends lobbies. One running it down, one rage quitting half way through, one afk most of the game, one Leroy Jenkinsing it and getting clapped repeatedly.

[@patximartel]

Perturabo's back was strong, but not strong enough to carry 6 legions. Also, Rogan won the duel vs Alpharius because plot armor.

[@natanlopes5254]

AH yes The Great Duel between Joe Rogan and Alpharius

[@SarmonOflynn]

Dude, you are absolutely killing it lately. Wasnt the biggest fan back in the day, but damn man, you are smashing this shit.

[@chaosspartan4417]

Reason why Chaos lost the Heresy in two words: Rogal Dorn.

[@christiandauz3742]

The dude that almost died by the hand of Samus in Solar War?

[@rexlumontad5644]

Rogal Dorn couldn't even find out a Dark Eldar spyware that was planted within the framework of a shack the Imperium would call a palace. SLAVESAYSWHAT?!

[@licensed_beheader]

@@christiandauz3742 yes so what .

[@christiandauz3742]

@@licensed_beheader Chaos let the Imperium win Doombreed wasn't on Terra

[@licensed_beheader]

@@christiandauz3742 Tell that to horus who was blasted to oblivion as the chaos gods rage quit on him after they realised he wasnt as powerful as they hoped he would be .The whole chaos wanted to win trope is pretty weak and has no backing in terms of the lore as far as I know a

[@Cowboy_BR]

I’ve been a die hard imperial guard player since 4th edition actually but I was given my brothers death guard models and it’s been fun painting and playing as them

[@arkslippyjunior7773]

I feel like horus pulled the short stick on primarchs If they had thrown Leman Russ or Ferrus Manus to the Traitors the heresy would have been much closer

[@Keemperor40K]

In his few moments of sanity during the Heresy he comments on this and says the same thing. Had he had even just Ferrus Manus, he would have won the Heresy, as unlike Perturabo, Ferrus would not break or give up ever. Heck in many of the fan creations of alternate Heresies, the traitors do many times better. The Dornian Heresy ends like the Horus Heresy, but the Loyalists lose more Primarchs and the Traitors lose almost no one. The Roboutian Heresy is similar, but while the number of Primarchs remains even, Guillimans methods leave the Imperium even more weakened and devastated than the Horus or Dornian Heresies, even if it still fails in the end.

[@sorufa888]

If he had Roboute, it would have been so one-sided

[@juidude634]

Lion wud be perfect "heretic leader". Maybe the best duelist of the primarchs and very tacticly gifted!✌🇫🇮

[@Super50ldier]

If Sanguinius was corrupted during his time at Signus Prime, he would've been an asset to the Traitor Legions.

[@rexlumontad5644]

@@Super50ldier Well, Roboutian Heresy Sanguinius did fall to Slaanesh and his Blood Angels are horrifying Space Nosferatu Vampires with Glamour.

[@MT-UK]

I genuinely think also that Jaghatai not joining the traitors and the fact he easily stomped the attempted coups among his legion massively hurt the traitors. First and most obviously, Horus lost one of the best fighters amongst the primarchs and also an extremely useful legion due to their style of fighting. I wouldn’t be surprised if he had counted on their speedy, first strike tactics when planning out the heresy and it was clear he thought Jaghatai would support him so losing him would have undoubtedly made him change a lot of his plans.

[@goodtimesgamingtm1316]

Lorgar in an alternate timeline watching Guilliman plow through his sons to get to him on Isstvan:”Shit shit shit shit shit.”

[@KyrieFortune]

Because the only one doing any work was Perturabo

[@JinzoTK]

Chaos: "We winning!" Also Chaos: "Can't have that!"

[@steweygrrr]

The traitors weren't nearly as weak as you made out. They had been heavily 'recruiting' all the way to Terra _and_ had Warp Spaghetti on their side. The Imperial Palace may have been super fortified by Dorn but the traitors had the Ordo Reductor, Legio Mortis, the Death Guard and the Iron Warriors ie all of the dedicated siege armies commanded by Perturabo, the greatest siegesmith on either side. Despite Mortarion being banished, Fulgrim and Angron fucking off to do their own thing and Perty (rightfully tbh) getting pissed off and pulling out the traitors still cracked the Palace wide open, fought through all 3 loyalist legions *and* the Custodes all the way to the gates of the throne room. The final fight on the Vengeful Spirit (as of current lore anyways) still could have gone either way. It took Berserker Sanguinius _and_ Big E giving up his humanity and fracturing his soul to delete Horus' soul to win and even then Horus still killed both of them despite what Leman did to him. If Big E didn't make the sacrifice he did Dorn would have just found two corpses and gone rage mode which would have made him an easy target. Same would have happened with Bobby G and the Lion, neither of which are known for being anything close to rational when they get angry. They no doubt would have inflicted major casualties if they caught the traitors at Terra but if Horus won the duel then the rewards he would have got from the Dark Gods for removing the Anathema, not to mention the new Eye of Terror erupting from the webway, probably would have swung things in his favour. All this is just shoulda woulda coulda though in the end.

[@ARIES5342]

Did any loyalists become traitors? Did any Ultra Marines, or Raven Guard say things like "He has a point" or "Let's just hear this guy out." Adam

[@laughingmask3118]

They lost because when Sanguinius died he uttered his last words "It's Morbin' Time" and then he morbed out and morbed all over the traitor legions and then he morbed back in time to the dawn of man and invented laughter and joy and then he morbed AGAIN to the future where he became Jared Leto so we could have the Morbius movie. It's all detailed in "Morbius" I highly recommend it.

[@AlphaOmegon]

I love how during most of the heresy, the white scars are just like: what the fuckuru?

[@redwallmincraft33]

Spoilers... but since this is a lore channel you already knew that. Horus screwed up even more than mentioned with Pertarabo. When he gave perty's command centre to Mortarion and more or less told him to go be cannon fodder caused iron warriors quit the seige. The chaos caused by the iron warriors suddenly leaving left an opening for some dark angels to break through and reach the mountain where the astronomicon was housed. Managing to re-light the astronomicon the loyalists could then reach terra.

[@TheNietzschen]

Horus was phoning it in, yes he could have curb stomped the imperium, but he knew what the future would be like. The other option was extinction of the human species. Or so all the eldar and everything says.

[@ivylt1274]

Talk about dropping the ball on countless occasions. The traitors had time and resources on their hands and still didnt capitalise on alot of it. Imagine if chaos wasn't a factor and all of the traitors had deep rooted issues with the Emp like what Angron, Morty, and Perty had. It would be like the Badab War but on a larger scale.

[@TheRealFutureMillionaire]

Now I know why the rule of two exists in Star Wars.

[@broxim9668]

Magnus only just ascended to Daemonhood in his latest book and now has commited himself to Horus, we don't know how that will play out

[@discgoglobe1867]

Major kill you should do a video discussing how yu would pan out the heresy like the traitors reasons for becoming traitors ect ect

[@DydraLIVE]

When I see Major Kill smile in every clip's intro, I always recall to Picture Day at school. Surely the Emperor is proud!

[@DaisyBee11]

The Siege of Terra was basically the 40k equivalent of Area 51 raid

[@afc3006]

Amazing video bro, would love to see one about Marduk, mans slaughterd a while dark eldar ship, bad ass

[@afc3006]

*whole

[@mordummunoz3487]

Yooo this si the best resume of the heresy I heard , keep it up bigdogggg

[@albestri43]

Bruh it takes a brave man to make that intro like your about to do a smartphone review lmao hats off too ya 🤣🤣🤣

[@OmicronX-1999]

Perturabo ragequitting and Sanguinius basically soloing everything that tried to get into the Imperial Palace, including Angron, were the main turning points in the battle IMO. The Iron Warriors were carrying the rest of the legions on their backs and winning like the absolute chads they are, and if the Golden Throne were to fall it'd have all been over even with Horus being basically half dead and 3 loyalist legions about to arrive. Killing the Emperor actually WOULD have been enough to score a Chaos victory, since without him the webway portal opens and allows daemons to pour out of it like an endless stream of bukkake, and even if the traitor legions were all wiped out there would be no more astronomicon and no way for the Imperium to remain connected, ensuring an eventual Chaos victory in the long term as the Imperium fractures and falls planet by planet.

[@JuanGarcia-gy8vl]

Perturabo: "You guys are trash" *Perturabo disconnected*

[@trajanfidelis1532]

Thanks for the video!

[@Cristov123]

Reading the Siege of Terra books, it definitely doesn't make you think the failure of the traitors was inevitable. Whole thing seems pretty hopeless for the loyalists for like seven years lol

[@golkor9879]

Cuz perturabo was the only one banging

[@huwtindall7096]

Horus was always up against it given the traitor legions were sh!tter and smaller in terms of numbers than the loyalists. Horus invaded Terra so early because the Lion and Guilliman were coming and if they arrived they'd have wiped the traitors at Terra. It was all the eggs in one basket.

[@chaptermastermarneuscalgar6926]

The loyalist legions on Terra during the siege were not at full strength during the siege: -The Imperial Fists basically lost about 60.000 at the Battle of Phall and they were 100.000 strong at their peak -The White Scars had a small civil war thanks to the damned lodges and took more casualties on route to Terra, although it's worth pointing out that the White Scars weren't as depleted as the Imperial Fists and Blood Angels. -The Blood Angels were mauled during the Battle of Signus Prime and suffered further casualties while trying to break through the Ruinstorm As for the Custodies and Sister of Silence, they got decimated during the attempt to hold the Imperial Webway. Edit: Although things did go really badly for the traitor legions because a small group of loyalists managed to steal the Sangprimus Portum from Luna, which is the device Belisarius Cawl used to create the Primaris.

[@logangrimnar3800]

3:15 Ferrus Manus welding that plumbers wrench like a BAWS

[@wishesandfishes]

In the seige of terra books the traitors are potrayed as so laughably unstable and incompetent its a miracle they even landed on terra

[@nocthemedic2951]

as good as Perty is he couldn't carry the heresy by himself

[@mcfarvo]

It's actually because Sly Marbo was a loyalist

[@PhdEDEN]

It's important to note that a total heretic victory wouldn't have been ideal for the chaos gods, and that this "everyone loses" stalemate outcome is exactly what they wanted. What's more chaotic than "in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war"?

[@w4rd3n14]

the fact that only 1 of your Primarchs is competent shows you that your chances are reaaaly low

[@CommissarKane]

Perturabo becoming a daemon Primarch is so stupid going off the entire lead up to Mortis.

[@gambitsheild9814]

Kind of makes me wonder if all the goodish factions in the Warhammer fantasy universe are going to get wiped out by chaos or not. Same thing could happen where chaos just fumbles their own ball an insane amount of times in a row.

[@Josco83]

I pretty much tuned out after Morty had his second Primarch kill overturned by the refs.

[@lollomannu1125]

Honestly i really like chaos rn, way more than the imperium, they seem to have a defined purpuse, while mankind only tries to survive

[@wojciechradosz4936]

Nicely summerized. I naver did get it WTF happened. Also... nice conclusion - IF they would KILL Emperor, they would be slaugher, but mortaly wonding him made Chaos win.

[@t.m.t3215]

Horus played the rebellion's success on a huge raid directly to Terra with all his forces. First because it was the Sons of Horus' way of doing war, second because, if the destructions in the wake of the raid would be apocalyptic, the rest of the Imperium would be more or less preserved, as Horus did not want to bleed his future Empire dry by an attrition conflict. If successful it would have assured a quick, swift victory by taking the ennemies' leader out, before the rebels' fragile coalition would began to crack. Keeping together goals as different than the ones of Lorgar's, Fulgrim's or Mortarion's (a religious fanatic, a rogue psycho trying to escape justice and annihilation for mixing xenos' genetics into his warriors, and a political extremist wanting to free Humanity from its chains Pol Pot style) was always going to be short-lived.

[@BanditUshanka]

Perty said F off, Fulgrim was having a deathbang orgy, Morty was pent by Kahn, Cyclopsboi was yeeted out by Vulcan and Horus was doomed to fail by chaos to begin with and played his cards wrong. Boom, the heresy siege of Terra. EDIT: I forgot Angryboi. He just went around curb stomping things, getting blasted into a puddle of goo and then reforming to kill more but couldn't focus more than anything directly in front of him.

[@charlespickering2726]

The reason chaos always eventually loses. Chaos. Eventually their self destructiveness and inability to not stab each other in the back gets the best of them.

[@themagalanium9491]

so not only did they choke hard but Horus basically got abandoned by his team

[@Historyfrek4ever]

The thing sadly might be that: loyalists and traitors lost but chaos won the heresy. Here is why I think that is what happened: Anyone who can rival the gods: Big-E, Horus (and maybe Malcador); dead. Anyone who can or could understand chaos: Big-E, Malcador, Lorgar, Magnus (Perpetuals); dead or traitor. Any thing that can seriously harm the gods: Imperial Truth, webway; lost. Anyone who can lead the Imperium: Big-E, Horus, Sagnuinius; Dead. Things that feed or benefit chaos: superstition, war, inequality, stagnation, fanaticism, faith, inhumane conditions; on a rise. Chaos got everything it could have wanted. While avoiding its own self-destruction which would follow its complete victory.

[@Andernol]

Chaos is the force of entropy. It will always lose the battle against order, but it is impossible to defeat it. It will inevitably win.