Make fungal dominant compost tea like this

[@bluejay3945]

Thank you for the content. Dr. Elaine Ingham from the soil food web is dead set against adding molasses to a tea brew because she stated the molasses favors a bacteria dominated tea. I have used barley malt this year as a food source along with humic and kelp. While I’m not testing the brew, this is the first year I’ve had mushrooms growing in the lawn areas and overall my property looks awesome because I spray the tea on everything. I contend bacteria are like my mother in law. They multiply quickly and devour everything in sight. Fungi are more complex and take longer to develop. The temperature is an interesting variable however since I spray via a hose end Ortho sprayer it’s mixing with hose water so I feel there will be a population crash due to the application method. That said maybe the way to go is to go from brew bucket to can sprinkler to garden to minimize the temperature fluctuations. It would be helpful to somehow know what specific bacteria and fungi are generated by the higher temperature. Getting tons of microbes is fun but do they play nice in the soil or are they as worthless as lipstick on a pig

[@Simonsoil]

I think the issue with adding sugary foods like molasses (a staple food in Elaine's early editions of the compost tea brewer manual), is that it can boost microbes levels so quickly, that the BOD (biological oxygen demand) increases so quickly, that if you are not careful the brew can go anaerobic. So over specifying the oxygen feeding into a brewer is a sensible way to go. The main caution is adding molasses to a non aerated tea where it will go anaerobic and bacterial very quickly. That is great news on your brewing! Keep it up! 😉 I love your analogy of bacteria too.😂 In past trials, I have found a slight decrease in fungi after application through spray apparatus. I attribute this to damage to the hyphae that occurs when applying the solution. However, after a couple of days, spores emerge and mycelium recovery begins so numbers begin increase again. I have always thought, whilst there are guidelines for maximum spray pressure for compost tea, this doesn't/can't take in to account the force of impact when microbes strike leaf or soil surfaces - it doesn't matter what pressure you're applying at if the liquid and microbes hit it like a sledgehammer!!!

[@chrischandler3041]

@@Simonsoil What is the answer then to the "sledgehammer" effect you mentioned? I would think that the microscopic size of the organism would make this pretty much a non-issue. That is just an opinion and you may have studied it microscopically.. would be interesting to know the best way to apply.

[@B01]

@@chrischandler3041 Dr. Ingham compares human cannons to sprayers haha shes like: "well humans can be shot out of a cannon no problem, it's the landing speed and surface that matters end of the day rofl so based off her comparison we can infer that spraying an inch above the soil may not be best, compared with a more gentle higher up spread out effect. A human leaving a cannon into a wall 1 foot in front of them is not gonna be so fun lol but flying across an open area prob gonna have a far better landing/result than directly into a wall a foot away at top speed🤣

[@chrischandler3041]

@@B01 I can see fungal strands being shredded, but the fact is that bacteria have such a small surface-to-volume ratio, and considering that they are in a fluid situation, that would make me wonder. Even Dr. Ingham has spoken about pumps that get biofilm accumulations... where from? Bacteria. How do they survive the pump? I would think that they do. Hard for me to believe that a pump could sterilize the water to the level of "human cannonballs" wrecking and shredding every living organism to the point of no living organisms coming out the other end of the pump. Yes, the diaphragm pumps may be better, but overall, I am sure bacteria survive those pumps.

[@kolesaurabh]

True, you need to have enough aeration, your fish tank aerator is not going to work. But industrial fine disk diffusers and membranes are enough to take care of it. After 48 hours the nematodes start doing the work, as for the fungi protozoa take care of them.

[@tycox8704]

I’ve been heating my brews to 80 F. One reason is that our weather temps are in the 80’s this time of year. I don’t want the microbes to experience thermal shock when I apply them to the lawn and plants…if that is even a possibility.

[@Simonsoil]

That sounds sensible, balancing the temperatures. What time of day do you usually apply? If it's early morning or early evening, you might be able to drop the brew temperature a little bit

[@chriseverest4380]

Absolutely fascinating. I might be wrong but this is the first time anybody mentioned a heater. A bubbler yes - but not a heater. Ordering an aquarium heater immediately. Thank you sir. Very helpful

[@derrickpayton7774]

The heater is good and all but I wonder if the fungus growing in the warmer water will be able to live in the cooler soil? I am a fan of brewing in the temperature the tea will be applied in.

[@jordanwj19]

great experiment! I appreciate your putting this together and affirming the results that should be expected. two caveats: 1) molasses isn't great for fungal, more for bacterial (and potentially pathogenic) 2) actually, the longer a brew goes the more bacteria dominate, so going longer would have lowered fungal:bacteria ratio and, likely, total fungi... that said, it'd be interesting to see! put it together and find out, hopefully not using molasses lol!

[@JohnAPerazzo]

So I was following the compost tea discussion group about 20 years ago and remembered the increased focus on fungal dominant teas. I could never seem to get it. Now I have a microscope in preparation to build our Johnson-Su Bioreactor. I made some tea two weeks ago with some year old GroMulch, worm gold, and home made compost. The temperature was 37°F when I sampled it. I'm calculating about 2 fungal strands per micro liter. Is that fungal dominant or do I need bacteria counts? I used to get my tea tested at earth fort, but $100 a pop is too steep for this brewer. Peace.

[@JohnAPerazzo]

Sorry. The longer brew the greater the bacteria? I don't think my fungal strands would have aggregated without a longer brew. I know, I know, 24-48 hours at 80°F, but I had no other foods in the brew but compost and worm castings. Peace

[@jordanwj19]

@@JohnAPerazzo not entirely sure about whether that’s a good count; however yes I do know that Elaine Ingham has said, and my anecdotal experience *as well as this experiment* confirms, that longer = more bacterial, period

[@ericsuiter7619]

Interesting experiment, good Sir. I've not seen anybody brewing tea for fungal specific outcome thus far. I think I've learned (Please correct me if I am off base) that fungal dominant compost, say leaf mold, "grows" better in drier conditions. Is there any chance some active fungi drown? Particularly in cooler solution? Thank you, as always, for sharing your work. Absorbing more knowledge will surely help me in achieving better gardening results.

[@Simonsoil]

Hi Eric! Thanks as always for following and the support. Concerning fungal dominant composts, like lots of things, soil and microbiology related, there is a bit more to it than that. The microorganisms concerned with composting, like people, need the house or safe place to be in order and this means not just food but the right amount of air and the right amount of water. Running a dryer compost operation could be counterproductive during the actual composting phase. However, if you're talking about the maturation phase, things will often naturally dry down a little bit anyway. But in general, you should not be aiming for a material less than 20 to 25%. And I think that 30 to 40% is a much better target to aim for whether you're trying to grow bacteria or in this case fungi. Too much moisture will mean effectively the fungi drown.

[@ddachilles1]

The thing is, you put a heater into the brewer to maximize growth, but tje question is, where are you located? Maybe it's better to grow them in the conditions you have in the field. If you are in a colder climate I guess you won't have a advantage then,because the living conditions are totally different then.

[@Simonsoil]

The temperature definitely helps accelerate the multiplication process in the temperate climate we are in. However, I understand what you're saying and there is mixed views as to the useful life expectancy of organisms cultured in a hot brew being applied to colder soil. The theory being that they soon perish from thermal shock. I guess if you can match the two so your brewing temperature at the time of completion closely matches the soil temperature, then you are more likely to minimise that effect.

[@kevinkelleher7868]

I wonder would the the fungal portion that multiplied in heated brew just die off if sprayed out in ambient temperature. Thanks for the video .

[@mattschwartz915]

My understanding is humic acid is easily extracted from compost. So can you explain why most of the recipes suggest adding humic acid to the tea? Wouldn't humic acid already be added naturally by putting compost in the tea?

[@Simonsoil]

Hi Matt. To a certain extent, although it is not always that easy to extract hates. However, I think it mainly depends on the quality of the compost used. Not all compost is 'humidified' - that's to say it contains the main component of humus, including humic acid. Also, the concentrations of organisms that you are looking to grow in a brew, will probably require more food than is readily extractable from the compost. Humic acid (generally) contains lovely, easy, accessible chains of carbon food allowing the critters to eat and multiply quicker.

[@sk8ercory94]

I just add molasses and oats

[@jimd1617]

thanks!!!

[@Simonsoil]

You're welcome Jim 😁

[@glassbackdiy3949]

Interesting stuff! some thoughts: 1) chloramines don't gas off like chlorine will, can neutralise with humic acid, tiny amount like 1 drop per gal at gassing off stage (best use rainwater with free protiens from the mosquito larve lol) 2) I've always cleaned the jelly/biofilm layer off the sides of the brewer to reduce anaerobic contam (never done side by side tho got it from the old CT yahoo group) 3) any thoughts on fish hydrolysate for fungi dom longer brews? I've never bought it, but I have liquidized freshwater fish guts and chucked that in a few batches - mixed results few yrs back so still unsure 4) have you tied pH correction to ~5.5 with phosphoric acid considering hardwater/strong buffering? This is my first yr in new garden, I've only just filled my first JohnsonSu so will have a while to wait for seeding compost in IBC brewer, my new beds are raised hugleculture 1/2 filled with logs then composted manure/woodchip, still very woody even after screening so I've only been making high N leechate (dry [no water not 'dried'] barrel of greens wieghted down collect runoff, dilute 20:1) to compensate, plants seem OK but not sure how it'll effect F:B ratio longer term, any thoughts?

[@Simonsoil]

High Glassback DIY. Some really great thoughts here. The humic acid is a great suggestion for binding those chloramines. I've often used a liquid humic acid with a low pH primarily to buffer the high pH of our water in this area. I haven't tried phosphoric acid for pH correction but will look into this. Cleaning the brewer is of paramount importance. You are absolutely correct. I didn't mention it in this or my last trial video, but I did cover it in the compost tea training video that I did in the early days. I have used fish hydrolysate in the past. Provided The characteristics of your starting compost are good, i.e. It has a good fungal profile to begin with, fishy substances, especially in longer brews, can help to achieve the balance you are after. With your JohnsonSu compost you should hopefully producing some fungal dominant compost anyway 😉👍 Your Hugleculture beds sound great. I think in general your approach seems sound, however, I would try not to overdo it with the N leachate and mix it up with another supplement for your plants. The reason being there is a risk over time of stimulating more bacteria which might undo some of that deep down fungal culturing you are doing with the decaying wood at the bottom of your raised beds.

[@glassbackdiy3949]

@@Simonsoil excellent, cheers Simon!

[@Simonsoil]

😉👍

[@JohnAPerazzo]

So Mr @glassbackdiy3949, how's your Johnson-Su Bioreactor after a year? I'm getting my ducks in a row to assemble one here in the northeast Mojave desert. I used to drop in on that old CT Yahoo group from time to time. Peace.

[@glassbackdiy3949]

Hi @@JohnAPerazzo after 14 months when I emptied it, I think it coulda used a couple more months, it wasn't quite the biodymanic-esque putty like substance I've seen some produce, but not far off, I used chipped green hardwood hedge clippings no thicker than 3/4", mite have gone faster with green softwood (or more greens added) looked good under the scope, most micro arthropods I've ever seen in a sample, very fungal dom, keeping it watered was the real drawback (I was dilligent but it became PITA even with it next to my chickens which I was visiting daily) I've refilled with the same mix with added 10% pure chicken droppings (no bedding) but I'm not being as dilligent with the watering tho I've not covered it because wet UK, in a desert I think you'll find watering it even more of an issue, think about some sort of auto watering set-up, the no turn benefits are good for sure but I'm not convinced the watering hassle makes it any better than making an elaine ingham style 5x turn hot pile, or windrow turner for farmers, tho the Johnson Su literature says there's much more diversity (orders of magnitude) benefits with no turn. I've not actually used any of the compost yet, I put it all in vented bags (1 ton vented bags we used for log drying over here) to mature a bit more, it made 1.3 cubic Meters in the end. HTH.

[@jamesjw41]

Are you now creating bacteria and fungi which are favored at higher temperatures, only to have them die off, or become inactive, at lower temperatures?

[@mirsidorov5112]

Remember, teas have larger quantities but lower diversity, extracts are the other way around. Always choose extracts if you have the compost quantities available. Choose teas if you have hundreds and thousands of acres, otherwise always go with extracts.

[@bosatsu76]

??? All teas begin as extracts... And then are simply fed and nurtured... If an extract has a species, it will multiply... If an extract has a thousand species, they will ALL multiply... Am I missing something?

[@MIRSTROY]

​@@bosatsu76Each strain multiplies at soecific temperatures, ph levels, and oxygen levels. So no, not all will miltiply, diversity will actually die in a tea, extracts are much more potent in divesity, please check out elaine inghams course.

[@JohnAPerazzo]

Well, to me, extracts are more vigorous than teas. For example, my latest brew is definitely a tea. It's light tan in color and I did not squeeze the tea bag. My previous one was an extract. It was coffee colored, I squeezed the bag, and there was sediment in the bottom of every sample. No sediment in the tea. Peace.

[@aperson1181]

I am not too much of a social media person and cannot install the software to view your white paper. How can I get a copy, please?

[@shawnmurphy282]

You are brewing fungi that can tolerate warmer temps. What happens when you introduce those same fungi into an environment that is significantly cooler? You get dead fungi. Would love to see a test where you brew at the same temps as your growing media.

[@gavinrochester795]

Hi we operate a pecan nut orchard for commercial purposes in Australia and had my first attempt at developing liquid worm compost tea. After it was developed sent a sample away for lab testing. The results surprised me there was 420 million bacteria but no fungi in the sample. I added molasses, fish powder, seaweed powder and carbonated water to the concentrate and aerated it with an air pump. Was wondering how I can increase fungi in the concentrate should I buy micorrhizal fungi from a supplier or do I have other options to increase the volume of fungi in the concentrate

[@mirsidorov5112]

Is there a reason you dont use a tea brew bag?

[@kathynix6552]

Maybe it traps some of the fungal hyphae?

[@michelbisson6645]

I'm tetesting could you add mycchorozae?

[@codelicious6590]

I was of an understanding that the humic acid already present in a good compost would serve to eliminate any chlorine compounds from the brew if one was using tap water? Do we have any hard data on how much compost it would take to neutralize the chlorinates in how much water?

[@muradhasan7656]

Trust me you do not need to add fungi or microbes in your garden soil. These are already present in nature in numerous number. What you need to do is give them environment by allowing native grass and weeds to grow in your field. You can plant seeds and seedlings/plants by digging small hole in the soil. For few days just need to see that small seedlings/plants are not over run by native grass or weeds. In this way over time, say within six months, your garden will be full of microbes and fungus naturally and all your plants will be green and healthy. Even you do not need to water your garden or use any pesticides. I have a small farm growing fruits, seasonal veg, peas, beans and spices. I bought it 4 years back and I I had to fill the land with river sand as it was well below road level. Believe me for the last two years I have never watered the field. I am not a youtuber to make money, I am sharing my experience so people don’t get astray and waste their valuable time. All the best.

[@D.Cooper420]

Not everyone is growing in the garden soil. Even then, extra microbes will only add to the diversity, can't really do any harm.

[@JohnAPerazzo]

Peace

[@dimedriver]

They don't exist in soil that has been mistreated for decades with recreational tillage, over application of commercial fertilizers, herbicides, and pesticides.

[@Leo-eb1wl]

I don’t necessarily disagree with what you have said, yes there are already lots of microbes in soil, but I think it’s better to view everything on a case by case basis. I work with lots of farmers in Colombia who have been fertilising for years and years but can’t afford to let their plants suffer for 6-8months while the transition occurs. We have applied fungal compost extracts for a couple of years now and the results really good, you can see great results in as little as 30 days and making it much easier for a farmer to transition.

[@denniskemnitz1381]

Do you identify micro after during or before the transition? Wonder whether specific micro id of additives would be beneficial for more specific information. I think probably sometimes. Dennis

[@theresarothenberger2264]

What kind of bubblers are you using and how are you controlling 80 degrees. Thanks for the vids.

[@هونهركوردستان]

How to increase the response of plant roots to mycorrhiza fungi

[@andypowlesland599]

Should of done another bucket 48hrs with heat

[@RubberDuckStyle]

I wonder if the active fungi ran out of food with the 48h.?

[@Simonsoil]

I think that is a strong possibility. That is why I think it is worth experimenting with higher rates of top up food halfway through the process just to carry them that much longer.

[@Chessmasteroo]

Couple Observations. I'll keep it brief. 1. The longer brew under performed because the bacteria and fungal growth outpaced the aeration and created an anaerobic condition causing a decline in population. Longer is not better. 2. This compost tea is also bad compost tea, because it will contain pathogens. Unless the airstones are only one time use between tea brews, the pores create an anaerobic condition and grow pathogens. Yikes. Best to get rid of the airstones and change this setup. 3. Molasses is bacterial food and not fungal food. Ditch the molasses. 4. This is more of a footnote. Bacteria replicate every 30 mins, while Fungi replicate ever 6 hrs.

[@Simonsoil]

Thank you for the detailed feedback. Some really interesting points there. To comment on a couple of points you made: 1) I have done a number of tests in the past, including some detailed work which produced a white paper and we found that the optimum brew time was somewhere between 24 and 48 hours. Aeration is obviously a factor - if the biomass becomes to great, the Biological Oxygen Demand (BOD) becomes too much and things crash. Also, you can run out of foods if you don't top up. Perhaps in this case, adding more food will have helped. 2) You are right that hygiene is super, super important and aquarium air stones are not a good long term solution as they can never be cleaned effectively and thus can harbour nasties. 3) Ordinarily I would agree with you. The original work in the Compost Tea Brewing Manual indicated this and it is often used as a soil drench to feed bacteria. However, I the aforementioned white paper, we found that it also fed a lot of fungi as well. I think it depends on the species that you are dealing with, although in general, yes, you are correct. 4) Thank you for sharing with the community. ;)

[@mirsidorov5112]

@@Simonsoil rather than stones, just make a bunch of holes in the hose, and weigh down the hose with a fork (put the hose between the prongs)

[@cosmicrealm1567]

What ifi thoroughly hydrogen peroxide the air stones between each use?​@@Simonsoil

[@denniskemnitz1381]

Why wanting fungal tea.

[@cedriccbass-jp8ky]

yo dude what happened to you? you disappeared

[@Zanenoth]

I've never been to your channel and I'm just thoroughly disappointed. Just feels like a goose chase video with a click bait title. Just assumes everyone follows and knows every step. "Just go watch these 20 other videos I made" No. Make one that explains all of it in detail or don't name it click bait

[@grahamfenn9060]

It’s not really a beginner guide, though… it’s not his fault you don’t understand the process. These techniques are pretty well known and if he were to explain everything it would waste the time of more knowledgeable people