Making a Papal Puppet State

[@Vader53124]

"I don't think I ever said you should use assassins against the Pope. I never advocated for that." LegendofTotalWar

[@MrSald96]

Imidiatly after saying he goes an talks about massacring the pope

[@Shadow.24772]

AcTu@Lly... he DID say assassinate the pope, with his army~

[@Mahfireballs]

@@MrSald96 Well Legend advocates efficiency and certainty not restrain, not at all.

[@Nikelaos_Khristianos]

Not a great loss at the moment considering some of the crap that he comes out with. 🤮

[@link670]

"I just said that you /can/"

[@KamikazKid]

What he should also do is recruit all his assassins at one city & all the priests at another so he gets offered the assassins guild and theologians guild. Then he can get much more pious bishops who will be more likely to become cardinals and more deadly assassins who will be better at bumping off evil popes for him.

[@MidlifeCrisisJoe]

This is the way. Have done it myself.

[@HisMajestyTheEmperor]

Just build cathedrals in Milan and Venice and spam bishops and eventually you will decide who will be Pope. Those are developed cities and it won't take too long. Worked in my recent French campaign. Also was in war with everyone, felt just like Napoleon.

[@adambrande]

I personally like playing as a chivalrous nation balancing diplomacy. Once you get enough reputation, everyone will literally just vote you. This obviously isn't meta but it does give incentive for a chivalry run

[@nikolozgilles]

the best way to get cardinals is to recruit tons of priests and send them to convert other lands so that they get good traits which improve their piety, if you do it right you'll have a ton of eligible priests which immediately take the spot of cardinal whenever one is opened this is easiest when you naturally border factions with different religions (plus they help public order in regions you convert before conquering), but if youre stuck in the middle of catholic factions you can still do this by shipping priests over to muslim or orthodox factions and letting them sit there developing their piety, you dont even have to do much other than moving them around to different regions once one has been fully converted

[@aetius7139]

So your just playing HRE.😂😂

[@ManuR-l4m]

Add theologian guilds on top and you ll recruite lvl 4-6 bishops right away.

[@saguntum-iberian-greekkons7014]

Spamming too many priests might create a vortex of holyness in the region. A dimension where angels fly around and troll the player

[@RockyX123]

To add to Legend's point about Squalor (35:25) - they capped Squalor to -100 in Medieval 2, and they fixed it by again capping it in the Remaster, whereas in the original Rome, Squalor was an uncapped negative penalty so you can potentially get unlimited negative Public order.

[@jonathanbrowning4]

That's really weird. Squalor doesnt work like debt, it cant actually compound on itself to generate more from thin air. I mean there definitely is a physical limitation to how gross something can get. Sources consulted: Everywhere I've ever lived.

[@nvmtt]

@@jonathanbrowning4 then you havent lived in south east asia bro. Trust me, you dont know how bad it can get.

[@jamesanderson5465]

​@@jonathanbrowning4 Papa Nugle would disagree

[@yellow13_]

As someone born and raised in Rome I appreove this move.

[@hokumdog]

Are you an African invader like most people living there?

[@thedon9247]

Rome? I think you mean Rzym. I'm from Wenecja myself 😎

[@yellow13_]

@@thedon9247 bro ill accept being a LOTW puppet but "Rzym" is unbearable lel

[@meeoo7856]

@@thedon9247 ah yes, the infamous Vinnytsia

[@demonicspire1345]

Don't forget the Italian army did lay siege to the vatican for decades.

[@Romczy]

Bro who sent that save file is Polish. I love that settlement names weren't changed after language swap xD

[@No1twelshy]

Polish people always seem to love oldschool pc games in my experience. Tonnes of unrelated polish guys I've met love Hero's of Might and Magic specifically from some odd reason, only explanation I've been able to get is that "It's fucking awsome"

[@johnnythesins8904]

Polska górą

[@pietroaretino5614]

Blasphemy! How could Polish guy possibly ask for a mass murder of Popes? We are Lord’s children out here in Poland, sir! I do not wish you a good day :(

[@michaziomek]

@@No1twelshy I've been replaying X-Com games from Ufo - Enemy Unknown up to UFO-Aftershock - because it's awesome and makes you sweat

[@SereglothIV]

​@@No1twelshy I've personally never been a huge fan of any, but four oldschool games that are absolute classics in Poland are: Heroes of Might and Magic 3, Gothic, Stronghold and Deluxe Ski Jumping. Many people play them to this day.

[@billreed2750]

Funny thing, when I played Venice, the Moors ended up being allies with the Papal States along with Sicily. Eventually, Sicily and the Moors backstabbed the Pope, and I was sitting pretty on the northern half of Italy, despised by Christendom because of my prolonged war with Milan which was holed up in Switzerland. I saved the pope, gave him Corsica, and never fell out of favour for the rest of the campaign as I was able to rampage across North Africa to gobble up every Sicilian and Moorish settlement, and pick apart France and the HRE every time they fell out of favour.

[@Maxymoose]

45:28 "All of Christendom will be awed by the victory we have won here today!" Yes, by the ever holy slaughtering of the Pope 😂

[@Chungus581]

Every time my captain says that after a battle it’s when I ran down militia with fully upgraded knights lmao

[@Ett.Gammalt.Bergtroll]

The many historical clashes between Protestants and Catholics in a nuttshell.

[@albinandersson1154]

Just started playing the Stainless Steel modd after your recommend Legend and I just want to say thank you. Its a blast so far and is making my love of medievel blossom yet again.

[@hwacha4911]

Did you activate theBYG’s Grim Reality mod too? It makes the game much harder but more detailed. Also playing as Crusader States is verry fun in this game😁👍

[@albinandersson1154]

@@hwacha4911 nope I have not. But I will look at it 😀

[@P4GYY]

@@albinandersson1154 i'm currently back into SS 6.4 atm as well good shit, you need to get that BYG grim shit installed, my game hasn't crashed in so long i can't remember now.. Also Dac V5 is beautiful. If you like Lord Of The Rings, give Dac v5 a go, its sooooo much fun, i prefer it to SS even

[@nvmtt]

try the stainless steel historical improvement project. you will rip out your hair and still love every second of it.

[@albinandersson1154]

@@nvmtt will do😊

[@schlomogigasheckelstein-go8694]

I think the famous Borgia family applied your methods for Papal elections long time ago.

[@coreysmithson4002]

I've always felt the most fun aspect of Medieval 2 was making these specific geopolitical circumstances. The game is so easy to manipulate once you know what you're doing

[@addochandra4745]

Easy to pick up (for a strategy game), but still need skill to master it (not stats). That's what I like in my RTT game...

[@lunaticred0]

A fun way I like to essentially do this is find which settlement has the master theologian guild, conquer it, and spam recruit priest. And by 20 or 30 turns later the College of Cardinals are just filled with my top guys.

[@Roma_eterna]

That’s what I’ve been saying!!! Personally I preferred diplomacy/politics, which is why I prefer this method.

[@trowachess]

Venice puppeteering the Pope? Like game, like history 😆

[@saguntum-iberian-greekkons7014]

Litteraly, Pope Maker haha. 51:28, his holiness s'ransom was high, too high for the Stateless treasury to pay. I wonder how the Cardinals said to the Pope "Sorry, we can't pay, we will have to let you die"

[@The_Blackshield]

Papal puppetry playthrough perchance? Perfect! :D

[@myballsgetlikd2330]

Very Sigvaldy of you

[@shadden_x]

You cant just say perchance!!

[@w0lfram]

​@@shadden_xmaybe he is a one-percenter

[@antonkrieg3708]

Hm.. alleviating alliteration allures..doesn't it?

[@t.a4141]

And thats 100% historicly accurate.

[@exantiuse497]

Not really, no. Medieval catholics took the pope really seriously, if a ruler had tried to make the pope his puppet he most likely would've been dethroned or killed by his own subjects. There were some cases of "antipopes" i.e. another religious leader claiming to be the pope backed by a temporal ruler, but even they couldn't act like they were controlled by that ruler in order to have legitimacy

[@aetius7139]

Popes be like: "Youre deposed!!" The holy roman emperor: "No, your deposed!".

[@saguntum-iberian-greekkons7014]

*Legend teaching the youth the basics of becoming a good Venetian Mafia* -Il Papa, il make you an offer you CANNOT refuse…

[@koucha6053]

The faction leader has an additional smaller banner in battles, that way you can always identify him. For the pope is the rectangular red one.

[@Inquisitor_Vex]

Absolutely criminal that CA didn’t give us M3TW with the client state/satrap system and unlimited factions from Rome 2.

[@eskurian8565]

This is actually pretty accurate for papal politics in medieval times. XD

[@merchrich9758]

"I think one of our priests just became a heretic. That's unfortunate when that happens..." 2000 years of Church history summarized right there

[@MrDaros89]

I always just gifted the pope 100 gold per turn for like 50 turns, and renewed the deal every once in a while. Never had any issues with not being popo's gud boi.

[@BB8enjoyer]

You can do it my way, My way is the brutal way. We're in for a good one boys, That's all you need for a legendary intro

[@MedievalWarfare]

Just Finished my Venice VH/VH Campaign A couple of months ago and i can say that The Starting economy is not good at the start, but it quickly became the trade power and probably easiest for being richest faction in no time, if you know what you're doing. Conquering Milan at Turn 1 is Possible and probably the funniest things i ever did. Great Campaign this one 🎉

[@dannyp9210]

Am I seeing a renaissance of old Total War games? :O

[@Handinmapocket]

Legend, small tip for the bridge battles in Medieval 2: It's a bit finicky, but you CAN move up units further up on the ground on either side of the bridge, usually just enough to pepper the enemy lines a bit further. Eventually you might still need to move up the bridge, but it really helps get the win the initial long range skirmish.

[@Sunscreen723]

more medieval 2 videos, the best total war game made!

[@holdinmcgroin8639]

32:40 she probably found a saltwater croc in the toilet, typical Australian thing

[@shkibeta]

That was a cool episode. I like the pope mechanic, it’s a bit of a check on unlimited expansion.

[@narkokid]

“I think one of our priest became a heretic” I thought this was a medieval video not warhammer. 😂

[@cheemsburger7284]

“I don’t think I ever said you should use um… assassins against the Pope I…I don’t ever recall advocating for that. I’m pretty sure I would have said you can use assassins if you don’t want to do it you know… my way. (1 he as in hehe)”

[@cheemsburger7284]

0:57

[@inductivegrunt94]

If you can't call crusades, make someone you control call the crusades.

[@BittermanAndy]

39:14 chasing fleets all over the map was the absolute worst part of Medieval. Made any kind of sea-based empire frustrating beyond measure.

[@goldeninnos3411]

damn this is the most informative video youve made on medieval2 . i only have 10 hours in it, maybe ill give it another chance. super cozy game

[@OldHatefulCracka-zo6sm]

Wow what a little gai kid

[@AnimeFan-dl4qd]

4:35 Mbl auto-everything 8:40 teacher Legend on its way 44:00 Legend evil laugh

[@reddwarf63]

I used to always DOW on the papal sates until my cardinal was elected and then I had a puppet in charge

[@nikolozgilles]

papal puppet state, that really rolls of the tongue doesnt it :D

[@lucaswilker6692]

36:20 ahh, the good and old Legend

[@arthurtouboul7919]

No pope had been injured in the making of that a video !

[@thecursed01]

no subtitles available... he finally snapped XD Edit: oh, now they are there. Possibly just took some processing. Everytime i want to play m2tw again i immediatly get angry at the concept of heretics hidden anywhere in the fog of war. that was the only downside to the game.

[@exantiuse497]

I don't lile the heretics either, especialluy since you seem to get them every other turn. But I wouldn't say they're the only fault in the game. Diplomacy is a mess, everyone attacks you for no reason including your allies, and YOU lose reliability for essentially being betrayed. And ship combat is a complete joke, the AI gets huge cheats for auto resolve and there is only auto resolve

[@Rynewulf]

@@exantiuse497Sadly none of the historical total wars ever fixed this. Im replaying Shogun 2 atm and its even worse, but fortunately its just not a big part of that game anyway like it is meant to be in Rome 1, Medieval 2, Empire or Napoleon

[@tomm9963]

Lad needs to go into his settings and fix the scripting that affects relations with other factions. Makes the campaign a bit more satisfying

[@Weberkooks]

Yeah there a couple tweaks that any dummy (me) can make to this games files that drastically improve the experience: 1. (credit; to nerd is to human: Remove secondary weapons from all pike/polearm units. super easy to do and makes them 100x more viable instead of worthless 2. (credit: to same youtuber above: adjust gunpowder unit files so they dont stop firing as soon as the enemy shoots at them 3. credit: to aleolex: remove "shove" animation from two handed units which causes them to drastically underperform. the famous "two handed bug". And the. the political script that op mentioned i cant remember who showed me how to do that

[@thee8904]

@@Weberkooksdo mods fix this? Like Stainless Steel?

[@masonworker2670]

@@thee8904 yeah lots, hell pretty much all of the big mods fix these problems

[@stubbornviking8548]

8 generals in one settlement is wild

[@Mushele]

polish save file :O polska gurooooom

[@ttouran]

legend...I recently started watching your vides, and saves of the saves...although a long time subscriber..dude you are truly a legend of total war..especially medieval

[@satyakisil9711]

I mean, if the pope is allied with Byzantines then it will be tough for Venice.

[@aleckazamproductions8139]

Thanks god it's not warhammer today

[@Egemony]

Most captives end up falling in love with their captor... Sums up the situation here quite well

[@GodlyEddy]

No way!! Finally, a video that's not the boring Tyrion campaign! Welcome back.

[@maycontainnuts3127]

i love the meniacle cackle when he realised he could ransom the pope

[@volodiareads]

I was watching this and I couldn't believe that legend of total war doesn't know how to fight on sea in this game 😄😄😄

[@ciromaccarone7494]

"Morto un papa se ne fa un altro" LegendofTotalWar

[@Raygeing]

Always a good day when Legend says horse sandwich MF.

[@paulenan9636]

That's not the "Legend of Total War was", that is the Holy Roman Empire way. Bonus points if you don't even have to pay the army doing the slaughtering

[@alex_zetsu]

I actually wish there was more to auto-manage. Like give an option for the AI to completely take over your turn from city management, campaign movement, and recruitment (except battles). Not playing the game would be pointless in single player but for co-op it would greatly speed the game if only one player was on the campaign map instead of having to wait for everyone to finish their turn. Of course everyone would probably need to take full control for the first few turns so everyone can make their favorite army, but after everyone has 1 (or 3) of their ideal armies, having everyone but the host do an "auto-manage turn" would be a nice option. It wouldn't be for everyone, but I think there would be fanbase for it. A full auto-manage might have a small niche. But auto-manage just for cities? Not much point to it other than to be lazy.

[@maycontainnuts3127]

this entire thing feels like something that couldve happened in real medieval italian politics

[@nicholasshaler7442]

Why is Palermo a city? The whole point of taking it is to have one of the best castles in the game. Disgusting.

[@dman1988]

It's only approved when you play as Milan. They just don't need castles at all.

[@Bizob2010]

There are certain zones that are better for castles?

[@dman1988]

@Bizob2010 No, it's just that Palermo is the fastest castle to grow in the game. It has 4k population from the start, and you need 4,5k to grow.

[@cdftakesking3396]

You slick son of a gun

[@witchsniffer5764]

While I approve because campaign limits both don't matter when you're good enough and the gunpowder era is way too short, I wonder who set the campaign to 700/800 turns.

[@senshibat8920]

We see this as hiding characters from the Inquisitors. so you see the popes version of assassins' stalking about making it harder to general risk and manage the cities and give them good traits.

[@dman1988]

"This guy here is going to kill a couple of Popes" 😂

[@kubus5681]

Damn, pope's life was worth 14k xD

[@mahino420]

i never had problems with the pope or needed to even pay him or anything, i simply produce so many priests that eventually become cardinals and i have so many that i win the vote everytime for pope, it rarely fails me

[@ernestb7055]

You have exacly the same thinking (strategy wise) as I do. I always do this when I play Medieval 2.

[@rengarjones1837]

I do use Auto Manage but only in the late once I've conquered tons of territories

[@MasterMind75427]

There is easier way to make pope your puppet. Just make an alliance with papal state in first turns of the game, make a lot of priests and there you go. The only problem is that pope will probably conquer some settlements later, but if you don't mind this, it's a lot easier option especially for chivalrous gameplay

[@hardywatkins7737]

Ha! That was brutal. Such fun to watch and i learned a ton of stuff.

[@flaggy185]

I think he had "Always manage cities and castles" turned off I played like that util i realized that it was an option

[@addochandra4745]

It's a player trap for sure...

[@AlmightyBruce69]

,,You gotta pump those numbers up´´ ..... I see what you did there :D

[@hurryupharryg]

Would love you todo that disaster campaign you created 😍

[@P4GYY]

lol the guy playing had 2 diff trade rights offers at 74 turns in... guys, you need to send diplomats out early and get trade agreements with every1 ur not warring, and sell them map info and shit. Diplomats are free early game money makers.

[@kapraltygrys2603]

bro's recruited balistas XD

[@emib6599]

I always auto-manage with minimal spending selected. But i personally manage my 2-4 major settlements.

[@ugurcankalayci4060]

Hey Legend, always happy to see Medieval II Total War! If anyone has Saving Your Disaster Campaign save files, share with me people! I'd love to give those a try myself!

[@makeromaniagreatagain9697]

The good old times when Total War had actual diplomacy

[@alkalkalk8152]

Hell nah medieval 2 diplomacy is just hate and betray it aint all that

[@fedyx1544]

Lmao, 3k wipes the floor with med2 diplo

[@makeromaniagreatagain9697]

@@fedyx1544 Good point, but 3k is the exception, not the norm.

[@phantomjoker5]

4D chess

[@P4GYY]

whoever was playing this campaign, i hope you feel disgraced auto managing settlements. "SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!"

[@ModulusOrbis]

as roman i approve that

[@13491Bram]

Started playing med 2 again, Turks of course. Fuck the nostalgia, such a good game.

[@martijn0797]

You can also just make alliance deals that are appreciative ( by offering some money not a lot so he accepts directly)... just keep doing them deals in repeat and your relations wil go up without paying a single coin

[@bayderon]

Great video! Just playing Medieval2 on mobile and having a blast! 😁 And your tips help!

[@Laucron]

Hey Legend. I've been told that you should always keep your taxes low to improve settlement growth, and to only raise them in times of extreme need. You reckon this is bad advice? It's been going decent so far but don't know if I'm missing out on a lot of money

[@LegendofTotalWar]

it depends on the situation. it the early game low taxes is definitely best because you want that population growth but if you're in the mid game and your population growth is ok and you're low on cash then taxes is a way to get some extra money.

[@Laucron]

@@LegendofTotalWar Thanks Legend! Loving the recent content by the way

[@Laucron]

@ramentamago4094 Thanks for the advice 👌👌

[@allnamestakenlol]

Puppet or Pope-et?

[@saguntum-iberian-greekkons7014]

😉😉😉. You are a genious

[@pisuoxide]

Always good to see Med 2, but the game volume was a bit too high in this one

[@arthurtouboul7919]

Rip to all the popes out there 😢

[@Zanfib32]

Your Poppet state.

[@BB8enjoyer]

2:30 a very skaven explanation yes yess

[@rokealva6660]

I see some polish companion playing med2

[@chiiicooo1]

i try medieval but dont get how the buildings work and replenishment so i gave up. you should make a fast pace on how to play (:

[@dman1988]

Has enybody tried to make the Pope as your vassal? I read it is possible, but I tried, and it doesn't work for me. Even without army and money, he doesn't want to be my vassal.

[@gelhardthemd8903]

55:42 One question: Is there a reason why there are only a few settlements as option for a crusade? Are these the biggest non-catholic cities or is it just random?

[@codylynn1038]

I use them to quick siege

[@thogusdonatus4607]

just been wondering at the first few turns in a new game should i ignore expanding and focus more on upgrading the current towns that i start with ?

[@JoaoGabriel-bx8sz]

by the gos what are these coments early on kkkk

[@MS-pt3yh]

Question : I play the Steam Definet version of it, i never can recruit mercenaries, cant even switch to the bar, because there are never some around. Not even the AI does buy them, on the old version that i dit play like 2012, it was no problem.

[@joshspencer6898]

pupal pappet state

[@OnlyVuimo]

23:28 its Caparison legend :)

[@brkibbe9097]

You are cliking to fast, chill.

[@leowillwin2482]

You mention to raise taxes if you have good public order but is it also viable to have low taxes for the growth bonus in some cities? Im playing stainless steel right now and I’m certainly not hurting for cash so I was wondering if I should lower them. I’ve already got my capital on low taxes with a really good governor to try and rush a max level city to get some good units quickly. I’m also kinda new though and especially new to stainless steel so I might just be dumb.

[@bigbowen1559]

SS has some of the good units locked by campaign year, so even if you have an enourmois city/caste on turn 50, you might need another 150 turns. Unless you change the mod files. Not too difficult from what ive heard.

[@lars9925]

I fully disagree with your total condemnation of auto-management. It's a great tool to manage an ever-growing empire. In this case, it's, of course, not sensible to use it since the player doesn't own a lot of cities. However, when the empire grows, it's just not a desirable task to click through all the cities every turn. I am not a fan of auto-recruitment, though, because you end up with too much expense. Buildings, on the other hand, don't cost any upkeep.

[@Pierre-Jonqueres]

You mean the popet, right ?