Understanding Mass Formation with Mattias Desmet

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Themes:
Psychology, Mass Formation, Groupthink, Belonging
Summary:
The psychology of individuals is interesting, and how individual psychology is influenced by groups, media, marketing and fear is an area I’m going to continue to explore. It’s like family systems but muchhhhh larger. And much more complex. Yet still simple in the narrow ways we respond when afraid - thanks to evolution and our amygdala.
This is why I’M SO EXCITED that I got to interview Mattias Desmet! He is a Professor of Clinical Psychology at Ghent University in Belgium with a masters degree in statistics. As an academic researcher, Mattias started to study the statistics presented around the current events in early 2020 and it became clear to him that the stats needed further exploration and discussion, as did how we were approaching it psychologically.
Mattias joins me to share his expertise in a phenomenon known as "mass formation," a kind of collective hypnosis that occurs under certain societal conditions. WOW. What an incredible exploration that I thoroughly enjoyed. I hope this episode gives you deeper context for our current situation and makes you a feel less alone as you navigate today's climate.
Discover:
* The psychological process of mass formation and how it relates to current events
* The four specific conditions in society that when fulfilled simultaneously, lead to groupthink
* The surprising reason people continue to buy into a consensus narrative
* The most efficient strategy you can adopt to help shift the narrative
Links:
* Follow Mattias' Research at www.ugent.be/psync/en/who/des...
Sponsors:
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* House of Wise Co. | Use code CREATETHELOVE for 20% off your order at glnk.io/o61q/markgroves

[@danawilkes6174]

I remember from about two and a half months in. Things were not making sense to me. The first was that, when did most of the World agree on what to do with this. This had "never" happened before in history. Second, what they said was going to happen, did not happen. Third, on anything that did not come true, I noticed that they doubled down on it, instead of re-thinking on what to do. Fourth, they had everybody go into quarantine. This had never happened before. Even in the Bible, God only quarantined the sick, never the well. Fifth, there was no early treatment, "even being considered", and a little later even being suppressed, big time. I had never seen this before. This told me we were in a (now known as mass formation psychosis) state of not being able to "question" anything of what was going on! As I started to question this, I got major pushback from my brothers and friends. This was extremely strange to me, as they could not "see" what was happening all around us. Here we are today. Not much has changed...

[@junkgirltoo5005]

@@tinyrockyplanet8953 yes it’s been hard-almost everyone I know is vaxxed. I have lost a sister and probably another to this mass formation. All friends. I will never comply. I wake up frightened sometimes but when remembering I don’t have this in my body snd soul I have peace. God is with me. He has plans for me and not for harm. Be not afraid.

[@AwakenedAvocado]

Some big points from my personal awakening 1. The pharmaceutical companies demanded non liability and indemnity for the MRna vax 2. The overall risk benefit analysis never equated to lockdowns and the effects they caused 3. The mandating and separation of society based on experimental procedures 4. Hijacking of the entire medical industry via ideology over logic Well turns out all you conspiracy theorists were right sbout everything. And then just like that.. pooff everyone focus on a war in Ukraine.

[@tyson211]

Trying to have a rational discussion with someone under this hypnosis is extremely frustrating and very surreal. They will blindly believe anything as long as it supports their belief but stubbornly refuse to consider contradictory evidence even if it comes from the same sources they themselves rely on. They use circular arguments that will go round and round until you finally just give up in frustration.

[@ryank4881]

Mass formation describes it well; the individual forgoes self preservation and instead follows the mass, no matter how detrimental it is to their health/psyche

[@hollylilylarry8663]

Circular Arguments.... Taken from the Rule book for Narcissists!

[@richardsaunders704]

Never. Ever. “give up”

[@JohnCurtinmadrid]

20 years ago, my NGO started a branch in Nicaragua. At that time, there was virtually no technology in rural areas. No mobile coverage, no Internet. In those days, after covering basic needs, the average rural dweller´s necessity was lots of chairs! People living in huts with tin roofs and a hole in the ground for a toilet valued chairs, so their neighbours would drop by in the evenings and chat. Over the years, I saw mobiles and satellite TV emerge and saw how the population changed dramatically. Now people will actually forgo food on the table to pay their phone bills and won´t build a new wall to their house to be able to keep their satellite subscription. Gone are the evenings when 20 people would sit in a circle in plastic chairs all evening just chatting. They are now stuck inside watching TV in small groups or worse, teenagers in a corner hunched over smartphones. This must have a long term effect on the social fabric which as a layman I don´t fully understand.

[@Psy0psAgent]

Conditioned primates of the species Homo sapiens..

[@franklinfamulski8638]

That's fascinating.

[@Psy0psAgent]

@Rogue Squadron see my name. I’ve been trying to tell everyone since I started my channel based on that premise. All the way back to The Outer Limits, ‘we control all you see and hear’. War of the worlds test. Episode called Alpha Spike on here from a show called Nowhwere Man. Apparently my life is the guy from the TV set in They Live trying to get a signal thru.

[@barrybarrett4626]

youtube: Exposing the noble lie. richard grove.

[@GingerPeacenik]

We all became lonelier in 2010 when the iPhone was introduced.

[@guidospanoghe8896]

I heard Prof. Desmet explain the phenomenon in June 2020 ( here in Belgium ) and this helped me a lot to begin to understand what was going on at that time and what has happened since then.

[@cghrios783]

Yes! it was about six months into it (pand) I felt validated because I felt they were wrong but I also would go into this thinking “could I be the one wrong?” But my gut kept saying no” then I watched him in his video Dr. Desmet aired about June of 20 and I thought I have to be strong and not be brainwashed.

[@omalone1169]

@@cghrios783 "radically intolerant of dissident voices"

[@imbolc8024]

ja, zelfde hier

[@hiroprotagonist525]

I started watching and listening to Jordan Petersen about 6 years ago, when he began his long walk down the road of infamy... and his background as both a clinical psychologist AND a student of history, especially the rise of totalitarian states, armed him with exactly the kind of knowledge and perspective that in turn was able to put into words vague ideas I had been developing for nearly 30 years at the time, and as a result the world started making sense. What Mattias Desmet has done wit his unpacking the process of mass formation, is very similar in regards to the pandemic. I guess you could say I am in a privileged position, though you wouldn't know it by looking at me, where I have access to a lot of information, and it only took a few months in spring 2020 before I was able t start connecting the dots. At that time I didn't have the scope to understand what was going on, beyond a mad grab for power that seemed to have been orchestrated, but certainly I was not equipped to understand mass formation being a big part of this; I was still bogged down with finding the next clue to the big picture, the next tidbit of information that would allow me to understand the grand scheme. Looking back now, I feel rather silly about it, never-the-less, at the time it still felt like all that was needed to stop this was the truth. But when the truth made no difference to people, that's when I really understood there was more than met the eye, and it wasn't until now that once more, light was shed on the darkness of the secret. While I can certainly speculate as to the ultimate intentions of governments for acting how they did, and I would venture to say it's not that crazy when you look at their actions and even in some cases, their stated goals... I now see that even that is a secondary concern; the main problem isn't that manipulation is going on and that there's a power grab, the real problem is that we as humans, have this propensity to be thusly manipulated. That I think is the big picture here and the irony is, it's nothing new, though perhaps the intensity of what we have seen is much further-reaching than we've seen it in a long time, let's not forget the witch hunts, the inquisition, Communism, Nazi Germany, or Islamic fundamentalism... all were/are, a different flavor of mass formation. I will leave you with this question: is knowing we have some inclinations or some weaknesses enough for us to evolve beyond it? If that potential failing is fundamentally a biological one, at least in its roots, how can we evolve past that simply with intellectualizing the reality of it? EDIT: I just wanted to add that by now Objective 21 is something that is fairly out in the open, though still a mystery to most people. By now it has been made abundantly clear what to objective is, and without mass formation, it would be impossible to achieve as the rising up of the masses would make short work of it. The Masses must be willing to walk by themselves, to their own demise, otherwise the plan won't work. Now here's a seldom heard question; IF they are correct about the population being too big to sustain, and given how Milgram demonstrated only about 15-20% of the population are capable of critical thinking, should their genocidal plan be stopped? I am part of those scheduled for termination so I have a vested interest in the Plan not working, BUT given how most are just a hair above a sheep in terms of critical thinking, is it actually a better plan to stop them? Horrible as their plan is, and with the understanding I myself will fall as a result, might it not be the thing that saves the species in the end? Personally I believe we can change how we do things in agriculture and the likes and make a lasting and effective change that will not place people in camps or have them eat bugs or take heir liberties away. I think we have enough understanding of science if we can stop the lies that are brainwashing billions of people into thinking they are killing the earth... I do believe there are real and viable options but I'm just not convinced people are smart enough or ready to manage themselves for those schemes to work.

[@mjlirette9297]

I always seek out new interviews with Dr Mattias Desmet. First heard of him on 1 January 2022, courtesy of RWMalone, and am always fascinating listening to him. Although, unfortunately, I am much less patient then him to speak out since I am more annoyed by people not seeing reality. But it helps my inner self listening to him.

[@omalone1169]

You sure it was me?

[@wonderwhen]

I stood up and encouraged my coworkers and others to fight against mass extermination, I never understood how they could fall so quickly; but I've seen their fear. Stand even if it's alone. Remember only 8 people got on the ark. Divide and conquer. Is 1st step. Strategies of war. Pay attention! more to come from psychological warfare. The enemy will never have to fire a shot

[@mauratierney8656]

Love the Ark connection only 8 people.thanks

[@carolinekcimino]

You two are so brave to speak out about this and have an honest & open conversation about what is happening in the world. I feel like many of us have seen the reality but are afraid to speak up. I’m unvaccinated and feel like I’m walking around with a dark secret since so many people have decided we shouldn’t be allowed to exist in society. I applaud you for sharing this and I’m hoping this video helps more people understand what’s been going on since 2020. Thank you thank you thank you!!!

[@danine3679]

I feel similar to you😇!! Its like going against everyone being and staying strong and making the choice not to vaccinate..its definitely tough....

[@hippie-io7225]

The evidence is stacking up, proving that D Fauci has been a bad actor. Also, there still has not been a valid public discussion concerning natural immunity (NI). Researchers say, NI is 13 to 20+ times more powerful than any vaccine.

[@soumayahedhili9649]

Same here ☺️ I also had a positive serology test (I have natural antibodies) even though I never had any symptoms 😅 Still the world treats me as an outcast or criminal 🙄 Luckily I live in Norway, here we still do not have covid passports or mandates, but I have to travel a lot and I felt I was a second class citizen in Germany, it was terrible. My natural immunity (serology ) and negative test meant nothing there (follow the Science?! Yeah right 😐) I had to sit outside in the super cold to be able to eat something. I felt I was not a human worthy of respect anymore 😵‍💫

[@hippie-io7225]

@@soumayahedhili9649 I hope you have someone there with whom you can connect with on a personal level. The lock down v@xrs "powers-at-be" seem to be devoid of human empathy. And they certainly do not know how to support their fellows.

[@toolegit2quit173]

I made the choice to take the vaccine, but adamantly support individuals rights to choose either way. I sympathize deeply with the segregation and stigmatization that the unvaxed now suffer, and continue to speak out for them and for freedom minded individuals at large. Stay strong and know there are more people out there than you think that stand for individual rights! Together we must stand up to tyranny!!!

[@rastkopetrovic7896]

A friend of Dr Robert Malone is a great friend of mine. Thank you Mark and Mattias.Love from Western Australia.

[@omalone1169]

27:30 so covid solidarity was the new trench warfare

[@RioWilliams797]

What has really struck me about mass formation is everything that is required for it to happen….Marine Corp boot camp checks every box…..it’s kind of crazy to think about it especially if you went through it…..you are socially isolated from the second you get there….it’s chaotic and confusing……they have it down to a science. My platoon had 4 drill instructors…..your main drill instructor (senior drill instructor) is the only instructor that is…. “human” he doesn’t scream nearly as much and at times would “rescue” us from the insanity that the 3 other DI’s were inflicting on us……we all loved him…..there were a couple days during boot camp that staff sgt Macmillan (senior DI) would be our only DI for the entire day and night…..those were the best days….everyone was in a good mood and seemed happy….however when I think about those days….I realize that he tortured us worse then the other 3 DI’s ever did…..but we were ok with it because he was our savior during those times……we would literally do anything he told us to without question and would do it with a smile on our faces.

[@averagejoe-annecanadian291]

Keep standing up. Keep staying out loud. “ I Disagree!”

[@nynoah]

One of the reason of less connectedness and the madness is the social media algorithms force it and it punishes anyone who steps out of the mass formation.

[@ShiresFamilyFun]

Two thoughts: Plato described Mass Formation Psychosis in "Allegory of the Cave". I have long believed the meaning of life can be summed up by that the old AT&T jingle, "Reach out and touch someone". Thank you for the great discussion!

[@omalone1169]

Or The Crowd a study of mass psychology (1895)?

[@niftyrosa1858]

United We Stand, Divided We're Damned! If division through fear over a virus was the ultimate goal, they've succeeded. Social distancing is as divided as we can get.

[@titusdart]

Totally agree on the diagnosis of the basic problem, the feeling of being disconnected, the fear, anger and frustration which comes from this and the only solution to our problem, creating society of harmony and interconnectedness (these are exactly the words and ideas of Charles Eisenstein "The more beautiful world our hearts know is possible") This whole discourse goes way beyond the the current pandemic affairs, it's about the major crisis our civilization is facing, the destruction of our ecosystem - from inside us (immunity system) to the whole earth (from climate change to mass extinction). Thank you Matthias and Mark

[@goldenlioness1831]

I adore your courage and truth

[@EdelSandersMusic]

Also, in addition to the statistical errors, the measures themselves do not properly measure the key variable. The inventor of the PCR test noted this before he mysteriously died.

[@ionelionicaful]

Mattias Desmet's presentation of this theory was the most meaningfull that started to explain what happened around us. I heard him first time few months ago and was amazed how nobody spoke up about this theory which is not new at all. It all started to be noticed decades ago. Healing needs understanding, at least that's how i'm working. All the best for you two from Romania!

[@PedroHenrique-ps8kj]

so right at the end, offering other people a positive alternative for living life is what we should be focusing on.

[@danine3679]

Thank you for being brave and talking about this...🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@Wildchile]

I love the part when he talks about the options for our “new normal” ~

[@lm5608]

Happy to see you here back here. ✨

[@juliasjepson3691]

Mark, I like your stand for critical thinking and bringing this wise man on your channel. I have more and more respect for you! Thank you for the courage to put this information out there.☺️

[@justintaylor3385]

This is an epic conversation and I love Matthias ending solution!

[@Wildchile]

I’m against masks, mandates, censorship and propaganda. Especially in schools, masking is unnecessary, harmful, and absurd in my opinion.

[@Wildchile]

thank you this is an important conversation

[@jgcrum]

Mark- thank you and Mattias so much for this thoughtful conversation. Honestly, I came for a clearer understanding of "mass formation" but left with a deeper sense of the human condition as it stands at this point of 2022. Much appreciated!

[@omalone1169]

29:30 and how do they measure meaning for those who are not "employed"

[@jacklangley861]

I remain genetically unmodified.

[@manchesterrealty]

Great Job! Every one speak out if you agree what's going on!

[@metgirl5429]

Watching 5 months down the track …..true Are we awake yet🕊

[@toolegit2quit173]

Keynes was wrong about the 10hr work week because he didn’t imagine a world where currencies would not be backed by ANYTHING as they have been for 50yrs. He also didn’t see the exponential growth of digital technology. The reason we have BS jobs is because inflation has been silently taxing us for the last 50yrs: prices of goods keep going up, but wages do not increase enough to make up the difference, therefore we are actually getting poorer and have to keep working more and more just to keep up. If technology was allowed to be deflationary, prices of goods would actually FALL along with wages. However prices would fall FASTER than wages, So on a relative basis things would actually get less expensive. Jeff Booths book, “The Price of Tomorrow” explains this idea in further detail.

[@unlockcorona2084]

Money is debt/credit system, money is always a belief , it is not nothing to with gold never , gold reserves was haux, Devid Graeber write a book -Debt of 5000 yrs listen him in youtube

[@omalone1169]

@@unlockcorona2084 52:30 this remains the key part of the interview!

[@jasonuren3479]

Just watched this guy interview on another channel. First time I've heard of him. Brilliant.

[@iMilhouse]

Very insightful discussion - I pray this is more widely acknowledged and discussed

[@lhenderson3285]

A great video .... it's time is NOW.... providing hope during a crisis of the soul.

[@williamwhitten7820]

*“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”*

[@junkgirltoo5005]

I’m trying to say more. I’m actually not as afraid anymore. “Prophets” are always hated. But as one contemporary prophet said: “I stand up snd get marginalized so I won’t become like the people I’m trying to warn “. Good point. I try and remember that.

[@shannonkringen]

Thanks for this intelligent discussion

[@sousababyonSquidoo]

Great job Mark. And it's good that Professor Desmet recognized how flawed the medical literature is too.

[@omalone1169]

And what about Slater and his pursuit of loneliness

[@LucasGaudette]

Thanks for this guys.

[@hafssol82]

Thank you for this!

[@paolacheong]

Thanks for sharing this interview! It helps us to understand why this is happening in the world and how people are being hypnotized!

[@brooklynrobotworks9866]

Thank you; both of you.

[@user-lh4op4yy4c]

Very well spoken

[@mentalcompassno1]

This is so informative

[@dandilion62]

most important message for people to hear right now

[@robertozanconi1360]

THANK YOU!

[@up3315]

I believe in this because I've noticed this psychosis in myself - and I don't like it. But I'm thankful that this explanation for human behaviour is now spoken about and makes me take steps to be more open-minded about opinions/viewpoints that I may not agree with initially but after a while, I agree with, even if that means admitting I was wrong earlier.

[@mandyshanks2327]

Iain McGilchrist - in his book - The Matter with Things - explains the human mind and brain in exactly the way Matthias describes.

[@omalone1169]

24:45 he weakened his argument with the conspiracy notion as it ignored the fact the label is attached to anyone

[@callmeishmael7452]

Mcgillchrist unfortunately has been swallowed by the other mass hysteria movement - global climate change.

[@aljoschakaramasov18]

This is such a great talk. I took notes wrote it down in German language. I will regulary take a look at those notes and this will help me to become a part of the solution....thank you much guys

[@markgroves]

Glad it was helpful!

[@UlfAlfred]

Awesome stuff! Thanks Mark & Mattias!

[@omalone1169]

31:00 I am thinking about Elliott Leyton and his reflections on mass society created deranged people...

[@lronsldes_]

These interviews are very informative I would love to see more. thanks

[@omalone1169]

49:40 anyone know the name of that book against democracy and in favour of aristocracy?

[@picketytwin]

thank you very insightful...especially how he is able to see how real and meaningful inventions or discoveries happen at a harmonious contemplation of the objects , the way of the ancients...can we go back is what i have been thinking as well.....

[@eddiethailand]

Not taken down yet?

[@user-ib2vm8mm2s]

Mass formation psychosis is just politically correct term for Sheeple :)

[@omalone1169]

I think Huxley was saying this in his 1948 introduction ?

[@atheistfromaustria]

It starts at 7:55

[@mifnp8887]

Thank you!!

[@AnneRitchie-po6rb]

yeah, go forward. make a BETTER life.

[@chilloften]

Indeed.

[@DouglasHPlumb]

I went to Chapters in Canada to buy this book. I had seen it on the shelves the week earlier but I was there to get Harari's books. I went back a week later and it had been scrubbed from the system and removed from the shelves. It must be a great book that has a lot of truth in it. Harari's book remains even though he writes about big issues, and he both hates Christianity and at the same time has absolutely no clue what Christianity is about, his book remains available at Chapters.

[@elvansavkl7972]

so sos true. I tried to talk with people. the refuse refuse to listen and think. I even told them to sent reading material. they said they won't read it.

[@atendriyadasa6746]

Yes, with this Fauci character we're following Dr Frankenstein's idea of "science".

[@adri-marivilonel5642]

Very enlightening. What about a 4th group opposing the mass formation in equally absurd way, such as the extreme conspiracy theorists that becomes equally aggressive and illogical?

[@siyaindagulag.]

Make that a couple million years mate , Give or take.

[@chuckyspell]

interview starts at 8:00

[@vvings9]

Oh you're from BC! No way, me too!

[@somatonusbewegenmitwohl-fu2167]

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 thanx 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

[@elisabethlernhardt7424]

we need to get Redpiled! Red pill and blue pill The terms "red pill" and "blue pill" refer to a choice between the willingness to learn a potentially unsettling or life-changing truth by taking the red pill or remaining in contented ignorance with the blue pill. The terms refer to a scene in the 1999 film The Matrix.

[@Ledfloydian]

Hari Seldon in Real Life Psychohistory is in full effect 🥰

[@PenelopeRyder]

It is similar to Wetiko.

[@williamwhitten7820]

*The Second Coming* Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; *Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;* Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. Surely some revelation is at hand; Surely the Second Coming is at hand. The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert A shape with lion body and the head of a man, A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun, Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds. The darkness drops again; but now I know That twenty centuries of stony sleep Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born? -- WILLIAM BUTLER YEATS

[@garycarder4363]

Might be time to break the power grid

[@posmosis63]

"Mass formation" is an emrgent property of what bought them to the group in the first place. It's one thing to talk about the issues of Mass Formation , but if you don't discuss how they got there, you only have ½ the story (if that). This failure of epistemology only adds fuel to the fire once they have found their group. Improve that and Mass Formations will be deminished. I have spent the last 16 years studying the human psyche in an effort to understand how my brother went from being an incredibly intelligent man to an off the charts conspiracy theorist. A decade before QANON was even thought of. It's been a frustrating and harrowing journey but I find myself now with a much better understanding of how and why he got there.

[@Alison-vq2ck]

God Almighty created you to be relational. And the purpose for your life is found in the Son, Jesus Christ. There is a void in your heart that can be filled by no other. The constant pursuit of meaning. The constant pursuit of relationship. The constant pursuit of social bonds. The constant pursuit of love and acceptance. The constant fear of Covid. The constant fear of death. The constant pursuit of "something" will not cease until your heart connects with the One True God. And his name is Jesus.

[@kathycleveland6225]

Anyone but me remember when President Obama flew in patients with the Ebola Virus from Africa?

[@AnneRitchie-po6rb]

this shut down of discourse began in the 1969's. i noticed it as a christian, that, if you were in education, God was too unreal to discuss, belief in a spiritual life was discouraged and even laughed at as an activity of the middle ages culture.

[@jackhlms3116]

Anyone who make believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..Thomas Paine

[@Psy0psAgent]

As Psy0psAgent, Ive been surfing the wake before the woke and before this realization.

[@tundesebestyen3639]

They decided to go on with the lockdown, even though this created a bigger damage because they used this pandemic as a global experience of controlling entire societies. "The pandemic represents a rare but narrow window of opportunity to reflect, reimagine, and reset our world" - Professor Klaus Schwab, Founder and Executive Chairman, World Economic Forum.

[@cghrios783]

The models were doctored by design. I doubted everything for the beginning how why? I do not trust anyone!! I started listening to people who for years have been talking about their theories and I think now. These are the people who won’t follow the people who won’t fall in line. The ones who won’t be hypnotized…..

[@rebrana]

“More people would die of hunger in developing countries from consequences of the lock down than from the worst case of the virus if there was no lockdown” 16:53

[@createinside4613]

very interesting as alway but the host talks to much. sorry....

[@tensevo]

The free floating anxiety, probably coming from a combination of poor diet, high caffeine, depleted, sleep deprived, nutrient deficient workforce engaged in BS jobs. The anxiety should be connected towards the totalising world state via psychological and philoaophical awakening.

[@s.hennigan5801]

Remix : Coronavirus shit is getting NOT real - Cardi B 😂

[@suetipping4841]

There are some of us who watch the deluded people and truly cannot understand how and why they believe what they believe. To us, their beliefs do not make sense. So, will we be the ones sacrificed first to the gods of delusions?

[@natsmith6306]

I feel like I missed the rationale for why it is considered "mass formation" to have a portion of the collective support some of the major responses to the virus, but no discussion of whether there's a "mass formation" within the anti-mask/anti-vaccination movements. I'm also confused by the assertion that we weren't allowed to discuss the downsides of sweeping lockdown measures or to question best methods. Many people died of hunger around the world and I heard plenty of critique when that was going on; countries like India and China implemented lockdowns in completely inhumane ways, and no governments managed to distribute free food in a sufficient manner to prevent mass hunger. I've heard plenty of discussion of the harmful effects of loneliness, the balance between mental health and physical health, and the developmental issues of isolating children (among many other cultural harms of covid measures). So, yes, these conversations have been happening. But they are typically in regards to how covid measures should be implemented, not whether any should be implemented at all (which I don't think is what you're advocating, but it's unclear in the conversation). I'm also hearing a comparison of a government requiring vaccination to a totalitarian government. But we have had mass vaccination requirements in place for decades. It feels like a troubling lack of nuance and understanding to make such an assertion. And it's hard to critique this episode at all, because it's based on the idea that everyone who's experienced the anxiety and made the arguments of this "mass formation" is fundamentally caught in a web of groupthink and unable to fully participate in rational dialogue. Finally, really bummed that this conversation didn't even mention the elderly, the disabled, or the immunocompromised. They are the people most impacted by the virus, and most of the arguments that imply people more at risk should die in order to preserve others' personal freedoms are rooted in deep bigotry.

[@AwakenedAvocado]

What happened with the elderly is despicable

[@danielx555]

Millions of people had an almost religious belief in hydroxychloroquine, and then the cult-like belief included ivermectin. It is true that human beings engage in groupthink, and it is true that this process is almost like hypnosis, but this is just basic group process. With the spurious COVID-19 treatments I've named, people adopted this belief because of loyalty to a political party or political ideology. It's a pretty basic process. What I find odd about this new repackaging of basic group process is that it seems to valorize certain right wing concepts and seems to cast actual scientists as the dupes. People promoting ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine are part of a collective, and they're being worked upon by the process that Desmet describes.

[@ryank4881]

How can you call it spurious. Bangladesh, one of the poorest countries in the world, had a lower covid death rate than uk, usa, australia. How? They used hcq vigorously as well as ivermectin. Youve been fed doggie doo doo and too proud to admit it. Once WHO caught wind what was happening they sent representatives from india to halt the program and do RCTs. You have no idea how sinister the charade has been.

[@mifnp8887]

Your comment is an example of why you need to listen, really listen, to this message.

[@BAsed_AFro]

Salem Witch Trials... Pol Pot

[@jacksonhalliwell7621]

You talk so much babble... Really boring to listen to - but I LOVE hearing from Dr. Desmet!

[@suewarman9287]

intro faaaaaaar too long.

[@hanichay1163]

This is so true. My very happy big family is shattered because of this. We are only getting along at all now (most of us) by being quiet on several topics. 😖🥲