I WILL NOT Ask My Girlfriends Dad Permission To Propose r/Relationships

[@jackchop1576]

I wouldn't even marry the fiancée in story 1 after getting violent and then accusing him of abuse let alone the control freak FIL.

[@raymondjacksonjr.6060]

I know and thinking about it this is something that would play later on I mean think about it if he marries her and anytime they have an argument like this she's going to flip out yeah and also it's kind of weird for her to be a hypocrite

[@JW-vd4il]

I'm a 55-yo woman and in 2023 I would tell any young man to frikkin run far away if your fiance wants you to ask her Dad for permission. Like in the video, the Dad who said, "Ask HER," notice that was 1970s!!! Or maybe you're that kind of people and it works for all of you. Then do it. But I'll tell you It's a crap shoot. About 50% of you will have somewhat happy lives and the other half are in abusive situations or simply seething with resentment. If you have ANY reservations about starting a marriage like this... Please DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN until you have come to peace of mind.

[@AngryReptileKeeper]

When the fiancee's reason for insisting OP do this was basically to placate daddy and because to get her dream wedding paid for, I was like, "is this really the horse he wants to hitch his wagon to?" Sure enough, turns out she's unhinged. At least he found out before he married and had kids with her.

[@wmdkitty]

If she "got violent" I guarantee it was only AFTER he was already violent towards her.

[@pragatisingh8467]

@@wmdkitty did she personally tell you that? Are you a friend of the couple?

[@rebeccay480]

3rd story Op: It wasn't my intention to mess up their relationship No, Op. That was absolutely your intention. You snake.

[@tallyp.7643]

I want clarification from OP--what did she expect would happen after telling everyone?

[@TheTrueKarin]

Yikes, poor bil. He trusted her enough to open up and what does op? Run around to tell everybody and then acts shocked/offended when he and her sister does not want to talk to her.

[@Honeygarlicchicken]

she's made an update and honestly the whole post seemed like she feels bad that her sister hates her and not because of her betrayal

[@Lillireify]

​@@Honeygarlicchicken the update sounds infuriating too!

[@cliffdweller990]

But, but, will somebody please think of the chiiildren 😢?

[@asausel]

I would tell my sibling anything their partner told me, but not our parents.

[@Honeygarlicchicken]

@@asausel yeah I'd do the same, if my sibling's partners past doesn't matter to her, why on earth should it matter to me as long as they are treating my sibling right, god i hate people like op

[@somerandoonyt9553]

Story 1: before the update, OP should have asked the GF, "what if your dad says no?" He probably would have come to the conclusion of breaking up with her then.

[@tallyp.7643]

That's a damned good question, and certainly should've asked. Especially since some folks just CAN'T stand someone who disagrees with them in the short term. Having them in the family the next several decades? That's worth an ask. Honestly, that's something EVERYONE who wants to propose should ask their partners if they wanna go the "want your blessing" route.

[@mgaus]

5:24 this commenter days that relationships are about compromise on your own comfort to make your partner happy. Why couldn't this be a time when she put her desires on pause for his? I don't think people understand the concept of actual compromise which is a major reason so many relationships fail

[@poohbear4515]

S1: Kinda reminds me of a story I heard about a girl(OP) and her fiance who didn’t ask her raging, extremely controlling, abusive, asshole father if he could marry her. Her father straight up demanded him to ask AND apologize for not asking him to marry OP. He also decided what they’ll have for the wedding, where it’s gonna be, who’s gonna be in it, etc. All without asking OP, or fiance about their ideas. Even when they had a baby after they ran away, dad of the year already made plans on baptizing the baby in their church and demanded OP live with them so they can control her and her baby’s life like they had done all her life. She’s out of it with her husband and wants nothing to do with that so called “family”.

[@CyeOutsider]

Typical. He's abusive but goes to church. The lack of self awareness.

[@putrapratama-sq8hu]

Common Examples of Cultural Clashes. Sign of lack of tolerance on the male part. Relationships is constant negotiation, if he doesnt want to negotiate obstacle then just bail like that, it meant that he doesn't vet his partner regarding commonality of values. and sign of complete disregard of compatibility issues.

[@Swnsasy]

Regular ol BLACK folk here in Florida.. My husband ask my father to dinner and said "I love your daughter and it would be an honor to call you my FIL." I just thought it was very sweet but nothing was necessary, that was just my husband and what he wanted... Not permission, he was letting him know this is what I'm doing and have respect for you.. My dad said," I couldn't ask for a better SIL.".... 8yrs now

[@justinthompson6364]

​@putra pratama Are you saying the _1st story's OP_ was intolerant? Because he _did_ negotiate about getting extra funds for the wedding. He was the one to offer a compromise in the update. And he hardly just "bailed out", he fled from the abuser who physically attacked him. Even if he didn't have a damn good reason to have misgivings about the relationship before, he certainly does now.

[@Swnsasy]

@@justinthompson6364 Exactly!! Right? Just ridiculous. He needed too!

[@ejtappan1802]

The last story made me so angry!! I hope the sister disowns her whole judgemental family and gets back with her fiancé.

[@stevekerrigan6546]

Same soon as sister said she knew that should of been the end, but all i got from post is OP is judgemental as hell i wouldnt be surprised if sis never spoke to OP again and hope she doesnt

[@sharyebethancourt3660]

I was so sad when he said he didn’t feel he deserved her. How do you go from someone crying on your shoulder, being vulnerable af to…. I’m gonna tell the whole ass family? That’s cold af.

[@stevekerrigan6546]

@@sharyebethancourt3660 some people are just that messed up BIL said all that in confidence instantly got judged and it got spread around OP really doesnt deserve any happiness if im honest the guy was obviously feeling really really bad about his past

[@Weirdandwonderfull19]

Wow. Story 1 update went from "awww that's really sweet, I'm really happy things went well" to "oh 💩" really fast 😂.

[@putrapratama-sq8hu]

This is Common Examples of Cultural Clashes. Sign of lack of tolerance on the male part. Relationships is constant negotiation, if he doesnt want to negotiate obstacle then just bail like that, it meant that he doesn't vet his partner regarding commonality of values. and sign of complete disregard of compatibility issues.

[@HaaraAki]

Story 3: Thats just disgusting of OP. People CAN change and get better. OP could have messed up the progress this poor person has gone through. I hope OP never struggles with their life for any reason. The fact he has been able to turn his life around should mean more.

[@jaredstar]

Opie in that story should have known their proper place and shut their holster or stuffed it

[@crazypyp5871]

It’s ironic she called OP and abuser when *she* was the one throwing stuff at OP 💀

[@FlamesofRebirth3836]

Story 3 had me seeing red for a second. I’ve had people open up to me about stuff like that and could never betray them like that. What OP did was horrid and I wouldn’t blame the sister if she cut OP off permanently

[@RJLiams]

Story 3 is the exact reason why men often don't open up and be vulnerable.

[@itsjustmaddisen]

Which sucks because men should be able to open up just as much. Who does OP think they are. What a trashy judgemental dumpster fire.

[@mkuti-childress3625]

Holy crap, I feel bad for that guy! I do understand wanting your loved one to know about the person they are with. But once that person knows, the couple gets to decide who gets that information in the future.

[@vanzy01]

😢

[@Goose-pic]

Yeah that one was particularly fucked up💔

[@starlingswallow]

Exactly, I completely agree. I think BIL is a gossip 😢😢😢

[@EveryDayALittleDeath]

Story 1: Take a lesson from Fiddler on the Roof. When Hodel and Perchik want to get married, they don't ask Tevye's permission, but because he's very traditional, they do ask for his blessing, which he gives despite not agreeing with Perchik on many things. I've always thought that was a nice middle ground. To me it says "We love each other and you can't change that, but we care about you as well and would still like your support & approval." Edit: After the update, all I have to say is dude, run. Not only does GF seem like a bridezilla-to-be, but any time money is tight, she'll want you to bend to daddy's will in order to get his help. For the majority of my life, my family needed my rich conservative grandfather's help to get by, and it's no way to live, and an absolutely terrible way to raise a child. It's hellish. Get out and don't look back

[@MizTameRumors]

Story 3 OP is an awful person. He opened up about his past trauma and she just judged him and ran him out of their family. There was no reason to blab to everyone.And a half way decent person would be PROUD of him.

[@AndyyWithAY]

Story 3 you are definitely TA. 1000x. Telling your sister to ensure she's not being lied to, I fully support. But, telling the entire family? Absolutely not! You say no one is saying he's not good enough, but that's exactly why you told them. Millions of people struggle with addiction, it sounds like he's in recovery or on that path, not like he's still in that life

[@streamerssaymyname]

Oh but there are kids in the family! What if his addiction or sexual past is *gasp* contagious?! Or even worse, OP thought he may be a predator.

[@fandomfan2800]

lol shut up

[@RequiemPoete]

Op is not TA. Only because we need to find a level worse than A-Hole.

[@madambutterfly1997]

Do you know what a test of True Courage is? Knowing when to keep your f*king mouth shut. A vulnerable 23-year-old just came to you with information of his extremely frowned upon past that he feels immense guilt for all ready your response should have been to carry that information to your grave. I wouldn’t even consult the sister and ask if she knew.

[@kerribottriell-baxter7345]

Story 2: I am so relieved that Sara is NOW understanding how crud things really were and is FINALLY listening to her child over what has been going on. Yes, be proud and teach the culture you're from to your children, just please also listen to your said child and not berate them for having feelings over the horrible things said and done by others.

[@danisonice.]

Sucks that the child has to assimilate into white culture to be "accepted" though. I hope this can be a temporary solution until the school does something. I would've mentioned this to her class teachers as well.

[@kerribottriell-baxter7345]

@@danisonice. I know 😞. I teach my kids to embrace other people and learn their cultures. I point the example of their school teaching Japanese and one of my daughters joined Karate with me. What helps is most of my kids are little foodies and want to try almost anything under the sun. Not just food. Explaining not all celebrate the same holidays as we do, and showing some of the clothing. But then, I've always loved learning different cultures, and I would jump at the chance to speak to OP's daughter and ask what sort of food she had because I'm drawn to wanting to know and learn, and I've grown up with a man who loves Indian style curries and some of my fondest memories is smelling the curries Mum made for him. I do hope something gets resolved for OP's daughter, as it SUCKS being the kid that's targeted. (Been there, and not fun at all).

[@Jacob-he3sn]

@@danisonice. Who said this was “white culture” that was putting her down and bullying her?

[@toothless3835]

@@Jacob-he3sn You're right, it was conservative and intolerant culture putting her down and bullying her because they were making fun of her for her "weird foreign foods" and teasing her about it. Instead of being courteous and asking questions and learning about something they didn't know anything about. The teachers should've shut that down as soon as they were informed but they lack the manpower and energy to care.

[@DwarfDaddy]

@@danisonice.how do you know the bullies are white?

[@Mama_Bear_of_3]

Story 3. OP judged her sisters boyfriend the second he opened up to her. I am sure she was biting a the bits to run and "inform" her sister, but her excitement was doused when she found out sister already knew. So, what better alternative in her judgmental little mind? Go tell the parents! I am not religious, however I endured 9 years of catholic school. This story reminds me of things I leardned from the book like, "Judge not lest yee be judged....," or "Let yee who is without sin cast the first stone (and if anyone noticed, not even Jesus cast a stone)."

[@kellyrandolph3254]

Story #3 is just so sad. To be that young and have gone through so much already. Life really isn't fair sometimes. And Mark, you are always so compassionate in your opinions on these stories. Just one of the many reasons why I enjoy your channel.

[@LadyBern]

You know what's really screwed up about story 3? She did it again by making the aita post. She put out his past, again, to complete strangers on the fucking internet! It's not really a question of "was i wrong?" But a statement of gossip "ok my fbil did this, it's sick right? That's why I had to tell everyone the juicy gossip. Plus I felt superior and all better about myself, but then people who i expected to go 'ew' said i was wrong. So I need to tell others the stuff I was told I shouldn't have said to get validation."

[@itsjustmaddisen]

@@LadyBern there’s something very wrong with OP.

[@badkitty4922]

Mark's compassion and empathy is one of the reasons I love him. 💖

[@LadyBern]

@@itsjustmaddisen Reading some other comments that may be true.

[@nicolasfrazier170]

S3-"I felt for him AT THE TIME." YTA. That sentence was all I needed to hear.

[@CodenameTurtle]

Story 3: i don't understand how you could break the trust of someone so vulnerable, instead of feeling warmth at the fact they chose to open up to you and comfort them instead. Absolutely appalling, and they had no remorse either.

[@DenMotherArkala]

That story with the FBIL? God, that made me so disgusted. That poor young man deserves so, so much better than the treatment he’s been given by his fiancée’s family. 😢💔

[@KateKanenator]

Story 3: YTA. Disowned. Period. I would NEVER speak to my brother again if he did that!

[@owl7072]

Story 2: Imagine thinking that yelling at your kid is gonna help them feel better when you know fully well the reason they won't do the thing you're yelling at them for is because they're being bullied. You called the school and they won't do anything, so you just went "that's tragic, just deal with it ig"? Literally stopped in the middle of what I was doing at the nerve.

[@itsjustmaddisen]

Sarah needs a slap back to reality and the school needs to not enable this shit either:(

[@catsncrows]

Some people want to live in a world where racism and bullying don't exist so they downplay it's impact. If it's not so bad I don't have to deal with it.

[@hothead2463]

Yeah the wife/mother in the situation just sounded so stubborn just to keep culture when it had nothing to do with that.

[@lynnw7155]

Just to play Devils Advocate, I wonder what would happened if I moved my family to India but insisted that my kids could eat nothing but American food. It's not just about bullying, but about remembering your heritage but assimilating into a country you have chosen to call 'home'.

[@rosurinplayz]

I believe a parent should be a parent, and that doesn’t include trying to add more salt into the wound from the bullying by yelling at their kid that they’re being bullied and having to ‘deal with it’ because it might lead to that kid resenting the parent and possibly have the kid think that the parent is on the bully’s side as well along with some other issues in the future.

[@janedoe885]

Damn, want to give the possible-BIL in that last story a hug. He deserves better.

[@stonefox2546]

FBIL: *gets dry and his life in order, is traumatized from what he needed to do in order to survive, dares to be open about it* OP: "OMG he used to be an addict, he MUST BE DANGEROUS TO CHILDREN" *re-traumatizes FBIL by telling everyone Yeah, OP is such an AH there aren't even words.

[@Mario-SunshineGalaxy64]

In retrospect, her (hopefully ex) fiancé’s reasoning for getting permission was a warning sign. The way she took OP’s sarcasm as a serious question was a bit funny, but it also made it clear all she wants is a big fancy wedding.

[@sheluvssmokedupeyes1]

Now this is a post from a man who doesn’t understand women all women want the wedding other dreams but the way she went about it was wrong I do agree. Some women have been planning your wedding since they were 10 years old so I could care less it just depends on the woman.

[@noydb-1]

This is why more than half of marriages fail. Most girls only want to be a bride and not a wife. Her pretty pretty princess party is the most important thing in her entire life, and the groom is just another prop.

[@pragatisingh8467]

@@sheluvssmokedupeyes1 go back to the 1950s or something bruh. A marriage is between two people, the woman isn't getting married to herself. 'it just depends on the woman' no, just no. Also your saying that women only care about the perfect wedding insinuated that we are shallow and materialistic. Its offensive. Women have dreams and aspirations like normal people, we haven't just been planning our wedding since we were 10. And for the women who do, its because of the patriarchal system which tells them their only value in in getting married and having kids with a man. Just stop.

[@iasomnium919]

@@sheluvssmokedupeyes1 Uh, woman here. No offense intended, just whenever I hear of someone planning their dream wedding since age 10, a few things typically pop up in my mind. 1) That's weird. Playing pretend and having an imaginination is well and good, but a ten year old already envisioning when they get married? That's way too early and in a way almost creepy, children shouldn't view themselves or be viewed as "future brides", they're kids. Again, nothing wrong with playing pretend, but holding onto it into the long-term probably isn't healthy. 2), the longer you hold onto a vision like that, the more you get attached to said vision. I've read and seen too many instances of brides stress themselves out and everyone else around them because they clutch tightly to their bedazzled "My Dream Wedding" binder and reject anything outside of it. Having visions and plans aren't bad at all, it's understandably a once in a lifetime event you want to be able to look fondly back on. But stuff happens that can and will knock a chip off of "perfect". It might rain, the venue you dreamed of might be booked up, the tule doesn't come in the exact shade you envisioned or you had to budget because of a health emergency eating up your rainy day fund. Adaptability and compromise are necessary, anyone who has a tantrum and throws fits at other people because things aren't perfect? Red flag fam. And last but not least 3) IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE BRIDE. It's the other spouse's wedding too. If the wedding itself at any point matters to you more than the excitement of vowing to spend your life with the love of your life, you don't want to get married. You want an expensive party that's all about you. I understand women want their day to be special, and it's a very valid feeling. Just... Fixation with weddings at any age don't mix well.

[@iasomnium919]

@@pragatisingh8467 This. Marriage is probably the last thing on normal ten year old girls. Hell, at age ten I thought most boys I knew were loud immature and gross lol. And I'm sure they also would have went "EWWW!" at the thought of kissing a girl. Let kids be kids.

[@brokenmask333]

1st story : NTA Update: even more NTA. The second she called op an abuser is when it should have been over. If op breaks up with the gf I think she’ll have trouble finding someone who will deal with her and his dad’s bs

[@speckielishouspie8942]

RIP Elliot, he had his problems, he had his struggles and many could see it, but that never stopped him from being a decent caring human being to those just as unfortunate if not even less for fortunate than himself. Though he left the world too soon he will always be remembered by those whose hearts he touched in life and now what little of his story that could be told will be remembered by those around the world who listened to Mark waffling about in this video. Never stop waffling Mark

[@ebrown7338]

The last one literally turned my stomach, to say the least. That wonderful young man came through so much, she said he was polite, kind, etc. and she pounced on him like one of his past predators! And her parents thanking her shows where she got this attitude from. I pray this young man does not relapse or worse. God bless him.... Absolutely heartbreaking!

[@tallyp.7643]

Yeah, I want to get a legit answer from OP. "They deserve to know." For what reason, pray tell? Sister knew and loved him despite everything he'd gone through and was there as his life improved. OP strikes me as the kind of person to smash others down in order to raise themselves up. Quite the low-down, dirty, stupid way to feel "superior." Or, deep down, there's something OP resents about sister and her happiness with this guy, so OP tried to drop a nuke in their relationship.

[@carolinebarto8553]

For the first story, I know Mark said ‘The day would want the kid be called Dad Jr.’ but I remember the Reddit story where the MIL (turns out OP’s wife was in on it too) went behind OP’s back to get the child baptized. I feel like that would happen too.

[@browhattheactualfu-2659]

No fucking way the 3rd op thought their sister didn't know about the man she's marrying's past. They just wanted any excuse to tell everyone

[@DudeEM]

Story 3: the adults is BIL’s life failed him miserably thus he had to travel a spiky road barefoot. But OP met him as a guy always smiling and helpful despite his heavy baggage but OP had to pour vinegar on the wounds that refused to heal. I hope her sister & BIL would pull through, without OP in their lives.

[@xandan1668]

Should have said that the only permission you needed was hers.

[@Natant]

story 3 made me almost pop a blood vessel. my god. the rage i felt on the initial reading

[@michelledalenaa]

Well- I saw the red flag as soon as she was all about proposing the idea to get her parent's money for the wedding. That shows a severe shallow side to her. He should have stuck to his guns on not doing the dad's permission/blessing thing.

[@britnymichelle4245]

I am so so so angry about the last post. I haven’t even finished the story yet. If ANYONE hearing that story, could relate to the fiancé and his past and for even a second felt bad about themselves, please read this. I am PROUD of you. Whoever you are. Wherever you are. Whatever you’re going through. How ever far along in your journey of sobriety, I am proud of you. You are here, alive, and have so many chances and possibilities in your future. Keep going. It’s hard, but don’t give up. Know that this internet stranger thinks the world of you and is rooting for you. ❤

[@katphish30]

"Am I the ahole for being a moralistic twunt about my future brother-in-law's past, which he told me in confidence?" YES. YES, YOU ABSOLUTELY ARE.

[@LaineyBug2020]

I think all parents should find a traditional Tae Kwon Do studio and enroll their kids in lessons before they hit school age. My parents did that and I was impossible to bully.

[@Feisty_Elfgirl_5258]

Yep. Learning TKO was the only way to get the bullies to leave me along

[@crisrodriguez5693]

Yeah, but that means the bullies would know tae kwon do too

[@zozocecp]

So, what if the bully was also enrolled in Tae Kwon Do. As you said, ALL parents. Then what? It’s not a real solution.

[@OBS1D1AN-ohngod]

Shit didnt help me. I did Muay Thai, and sure I could give as good as I got with guys. But the back talk and the slirs and the mind games that shit almost pushed me over the edge and I couldn’t throw hands with it.

[@nightcorelucario2218]

You're wrong. I knew martial arts as a kid but that didn't stop the bullying, in fact gave them more ammo to racially attack me. You can't beat up someone who attacks from a distance and runs away

[@annaorbanes5070]

Mark, you brought tears to my eyes with your story about your friend pulling trolleys out of the river and helping the homeless. He was so kind, even though he had so many troubles of his own. God bless his memory.

[@rf159a]

Story #3: Something tells me that young man isn't around anymore because he might of started using again because of OP's jugemental attitude. That poor young man beat addiction and stopped doing porn to try to live a life he wanted with OP's sister and OP, the asshole she is, probably caused that young man to spiral back to the life he once lived!!

[@JohnWilliams-wl9px]

Someone in the comments says there was an update. Basically, the sister and BIL are fine but aren't in connect with the rest of the family

[@tallyp.7643]

And if that happened, you know OP would've been like "I knew this would happen!" The whole self-fulfilling prophecy thing would've gone over OP's head. Yeah, it only happened because of YOU! Grr... OP's a gossip from hell.

[@RuminatingRaptor]

Your compassion and empathy is truly inspiring. Thanks for being so kind.

[@hudwen]

I think the OP in the first story dodged a bullet. Holy shit. Having shit thrown at you after an argument. Yeah, no, I would be out that door and blocking their numbers.

[@ronaldocruz4594]

Facts, and you got people here calling him TA but not her like she's an AH and Ab*ser throwing things at him like wtf

[@Angry_Red78]

Mark, I just wanted to tell you that you don’t need to apologize (like you always do, silly) for going off on one with one of your stories. That young man probably didn’t even realize it, but his hard work and niceness touched you so much that you still remember him, decades later. He may have had a short, troubled life, but you were smiling while telling us about him. That’s the highest compliment a person can get. He hasn’t been just forgotten. 💕💕

[@impagain]

Mark, thank you so much for sharing that story about Elliot! I genuinely feel blessed to know about him now. That was very lovely and touching, and it set me off a bit too. It's important to remember that addicts are actually people who are addicted. Being addicted doesn't make you a bad person.

[@Early666]

Story#2: NTA, OP is making sure his daughter eats. The wife has some nerve accusing OP of "denying cultures" while she appears she doesn't allow anything other than her culture's cuisine in the household.

[@memorysdancer]

They mentioned at the end that they have Chinese and Indian, which is both parents cultures. It's said the mother makes good Indian food which they all love, it's never once said she forces it down their throat. Husband even says it's delicious fgs. Also daughter loves the food and had no problem in elementary school, it's just that middle school is brutal so even if she loves her mums food normally she's almost being forced to hate it because of the bullying. Please either listen properly or read through the story again.

[@sammicunniam3992]

@@memorysdancer I read and listened to the story properly. The mum is denying food from cultures outside of Chinese and Indian.

[@catbitmaster8216]

First story, as soon as the gf wanted OP to get her father's permission because of financial reasons, for her (not their) dream wedding, it was a major red flag

[@Aaron-kj8dv]

She's going to bring this type of chaos into their entire relationship. Pulling chaotic people into your life is ALWAYS a bad idea but she wants her dream wedding.

[@melodramatic7904]

I don't know. My stepdad asked my grandmother's permission to marry my mom and I thought it was romantic. I always imagined my future husband asking both of my parents for my hand in marriage. It didn't happen, but for good reason and that was ok.

[@catbitmaster8216]

@@melodramatic7904 maybe it sounds romantic, but the issue in the story was OP's gf's intention. It was incredibly self-centred

[@locusxe1411]

@@melodramatic7904 but I’m assuming your father had good intentions. Ops fiancé only wanted him to do it because she wanted more fund for her wedding. She didn’t even say both of their weddings, just hers. It honestly doesn’t sound romantic to me at all.

[@101Mant]

​@@melodramatic7904 nothing more romantic than remembering woman were the property of their father's and husbands.

[@jackchop1576]

Story 3's OP is shady and pulled the stunt she did primarily to break them up because she sees him as less than after hearing about his past. Her fake concern routine is just that. Her brother and SIL were right about her.

[@tallyp.7643]

Probably wanted to be the "savior" who stopped the sister from marrying the wrong man, and get accolades for exposing someone so damaged before they could officially become family. (eyeroll) For Karma's sake, I hope OP has some crazy-ass skeletons in their closet, and someone OP trusts exposes them all to everyone everywhere.

[@Mario-SunshineGalaxy64]

I remember reading the third post and just going “wow, this person sucks”.

[@LongNight_Moonlight]

I always thought the talk to the So's parents before proposing was about receiving their blessing not permission. I've only read about people asking for permission in historical novels.

[@demonic_myst4503]

Thats kist a pc word used to excuse the behavior the entire practice comes from the times ehen marriage was a father selling his daughter for money or power

[@jamieboer3466]

@@demonic_myst4503 No it does not, it comes from when times were tough, it was up to the father to keep is family safe. He protected his daughters until it was time for her husband to.

[@demonic_myst4503]

@@jamieboer3466 no it really does historians can link it back to early europiasn culturesd at minimal and at most indo europian culture which outright saw marriage as a trade of resources and permission to marry somone was literaly the same as asking to buy a product

[@demonic_myst4503]

@@jamieboer3466 and sdaying that bullshit is an excuse even oldest society we link that bs back to didnt actualy see it like that the romans it wasnt a meh dad protects family no it was the patria potestas apart o the patriach of a family owned the indeviduals in a family and had the right to execute his own daughters

[@tallyp.7643]

@@demonic_myst4503 true. our concept of "romantic love" and marrying for that rather than familial ties and property rights is little more than 200 years old. Marriage was mostly a secular institution til feudalism began to collapse in Europe & the Catholic Church was about the only institution standing (mostly) intact. So, they took over the business of marriage to secure land rights and inheritances, using the Bible to make it a more religious affair. The Black Plague helped loosen those family-ambition bonds because it's hard to ask for a blessing/ permission for marriage when most of them are dead and scattered out of fear. Took centuries for it to become more of a "union of two souls" than some family ties-property settling agreement (though the aristocrats still mostly played by those rules).

[@kerribottriell-baxter7345]

I love your waffle stories. First time I've heard about Elliot and my heart melted when you got to where he was giving the homeless the food, a "paying it forward" scenario. ❤

[@madambutterfly1997]

Asking for his blessing is a courtesy that the father’s not entitled nor is Op beholding to that tradition.

[@crem-crem4070]

What about OP’s future wife? Why doesn’t what she wants matter in this conversation about feminism?

[@dustyrose192]

@@crem-crem4070 No one mentioned feminism and this tradition dates back when women were property. So not very feminist is it?

[@crem-crem4070]

@@dustyrose192 my comment’s point went right over your head, huh?

[@zozocecp]

@@crem-crem4070 No not really. Some women didn’t want to have the right to vote, it doesn’t make what they wanted matter or better. She clearly views herself as her father’s property, which is pathetic. Funny how you mention feminism then claim somebody else misses the point because that’s what they talked to you about.

[@grumpypants2066]

​@@crem-crem4070 apparently traditions cant change with time to these people 😂

[@beave200]

I hate the concept of asking permission because it's a control thing and it's freaking stupid.

[@jessicamarsh9779]

1:33 Honestly as a strong hard headed independent Native women who was raised by strong Independent Native women, I told my husband he had to ask my dad for permission to marry me, his blessing so to speak. I get it’s an out l dated custom. But it’s not about asking to have me or my dad giving me to him, it’s a respect thing. My dad said “Do you think you could handle her? She’s very strong willed & hot headed” my husband said “I do & that’s a big part of why I love her. She doesn’t need ‘handled’ she needs a partner to balance her” my dad smiled & said “or course”. It was the RESPECT behind it.

[@BohemianScandalous]

Story 3: how cruel to have your fiancé’s family judge you one the worst moments of your life. And how young he was!! It’s possible he got addicted and into sex work when he was a kid. And not a single ounce of compassion from someone who was supposed to become his family. And the fact he broke up with OP’s sister saying that he didn’t deserve her… he’s dealing with so much self hatred and OP has just set him back so far

[@josephedward7534]

Story 1: It turns out the girlfriend’s father wasn’t the problem. The problem was the girlfriend being a spoiled bridezilla and a daddy’s girl. Her parents might be enabling her, but she clearly prioritizes what her parents want over what OP wants.

[@charliescott859]

Yeah. Story 1: 👋 👋 👋

[@pippo17173]

Golden child syndrome Straight up. Will admit she hid it well for op to give info its for her father blessing even when he is responsible for this crappy behavior.

[@tallyp.7643]

It felt like if he asked for permission the way she wanted him to, she knew strings would be attached, and she was totally okay with it as long as she got her dream wedding. Sheesh--next time they meet, OP should inflate a life-sized groom doll and tell her the doll will make sure she gets her dream wedding: won't have a mind of it's own, let alone an opinion, can't disagree with daddy dearest about anything, and she can throw things at it all she wants when she's having a bad day, but OP is out and not gonna put up with her princess complex & daddy pulling the strings on their relationship the whole time, because it's not gonna end at the wedding.

[@josephedward7534]

@@tallyp.7643 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆 That life-size doll suggestion was both wise and hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.

[@NopeScope14]

Throwing things at op is a red flag. I hope she treats her future partner as an equal, and not a creepy possession that daddy dearest has to call the shots on their wedding night 🤢

[@colleens1107]

I took part in the judgement of the last story (got my first award for my YTA response, but I digress) I still can’t get over how awful OP was to her BIL who had let himself be vulnerable to OP and she just crapped all over it.

[@crazypyp5871]

The only one you should ask permission to propose to is the person you are proposing to. Otherwise it’s: “we’re engaged end of story we’re gonna go on to be happy and live our best lives”

[@putrapratama-sq8hu]

That is not the case. This is Common Examples of Cultural Clashes. Sign of lack of tolerance on the male part. Relationships is constant negotiation, if he doesnt want to negotiate obstacle then just bail like that, it meant that he doesn't vet his partner regarding commonality of values. and sign of complete disregard of compatibility issues.

[@mkuti-childress3625]

@@putrapratama-sq8hu Yeah, I’m American and just see it as being respectful of a family’s tradition. My American husband actually called to ask my brother as my dad had passed away. I had no issue with it and thought it was sweet. It was his way of asking if my family would accept him as one of them. (They did. 😊)

[@desireeloveros1055]

​@@mkuti-childress3625 I'll be honest I'd like a financé to ask permission from my momma. It just seems respectful and more so "will you let me be a part of your family" than "sell your daughter to me"

[@davidnash8208]

@@mkuti-childress3625 so he has no say about his beliefs? He must ignore them and become a hypocrite. Of course, if she didn't want him to ask but he did anyway, she would be furious .If a woman insists on him asking her father, he should insist that she ask his parents.

[@mkuti-childress3625]

@@davidnash8208 Sure, he absolutely has a say about his beliefs. But she also has a right to break up with someone who won’t compromise out of respect to her family. People do this kind of thing all the time. I have friends who married each other in both Hindu and Catholic ceremonies on the same day. Neither of them felt like they were being forced to deny their own beliefs. They just both cared about each other enough and respected each other’s families and cultures enough that they were willing to do both. Honestly, if a man isn’t willing to sleep in a separate room for one night for his fiancé, his fiancé should think twice. That’s a lot less of a compromise than asking a father’s permission to marry someone, like the father owned her. It’s just a tradition. My husband and I lived together for two years before getting married, and we slept apart that night, too, partly because he had pretty religious people on his side of the family, partly for luck, even though we don’t really believe in it. But it was absolutely no big deal. It’s just a tradition that has no sexism implied. It wasn’t hard to do for one night. This guy just seems to be looking for reasons to be offended.

[@Sensansenkai]

Oh my god. That sister is either shockingly sheltered or just terrible. When I heard "shady past" in the title I thought he was going to confess to being a former heroin dealer or grievously injured someone in a drunk driving accident or was involved in a scam or something. The fact she thought everyone needed to know about his past dealing with poverty and addiction is just.... wow.

[@badkitty4922]

Mark, you're such a pure, sweet soul. Your compassion and empathy are a few of the reasons I love you, mate.💖😘

[@swiftninja91]

I had something similar to story 3 happen to me, but nowhere near as serious as the BIL's situation. When one of my cousins on my Dad's side found out about my autism, she spread it around the rest of the family like hot gossip. I felt ashamed and dirty because of this thing I had zero control over, not to mention making my depression worse. The OP in that story is awful.

[@weebreads8728]

story 1 - it feels like the real issue is that OP doesn't like that his finance is willing to sacrifice her beliefs/opinions for the sake of getting money for the wedding. Which I can understand, if I had a partner who was willing to roll over for money rather than stand up for their beliefs I would find it hard to see them as someone with integrity.

[@tallyp.7643]

Good way to put it. I'd be wondering if they decided to have a baby, would she roll over and name it after dad for the right price? Selfish as hell.

[@maddyspinks]

Thank you for what you and your mates did for the man in your story. I guarantee it meant a lot to him and would have never been forgotten. Unfortunately I’m sure that many people in his life treated him like a disease to be avoided at all costs and to then have kids and some other people in the community rally around him like that and treat him like the human being he was would have made a huge difference in his life, even if only to his mental health and since of self worth, but sometimes that’s all you need to be truly happy in life.

[@catnoir1333]

God the OP in story 3 just pisses me off. She had no right exposing that kind of information and judging FBIL for his past.

[@kerribottriell-baxter7345]

Story 3: NOT YOUR BLOODY STORY TO TELL OP! You are the AH! Should have kept that trap shut!

[@fandomfan2800]

nope NTA

[@kerribottriell-baxter7345]

@@fandomfan2800 not OP's story to tell. Simple and as plain as that! She is an AH!

[@fantasystaplesuwu1554]

Some of these reddit commentors don't seem to understand that a compromise doesn't mean "do it anyway", it means you BOTH make a compromise.

[@rubymeaddle]

Counterpoint: it's a small thing and respects your fiance's culture

[@fantasystaplesuwu1554]

@@rubymeaddle And what if it were a man insisting that he asked the woman's dad for permission against her will, because she didn't want to be treated like property? With the genders reversed, it's a whole lot clearer why this is wrong. He did not want to treat her like property. It went against his morals, and yet she ignored that. He shouldn't have to do something he believes is morally wrong in order to please her, and she should understand that. If he has to "respect their culture", then she should respect HIS culture, which may not include asking for permission. Compromise goes BOTH ways

[@rubymeaddle]

@@fantasystaplesuwu1554 the difference is the woman is okay with it in this case, you don't seem to respect women's choices when they don't align with yours

[@fantasystaplesuwu1554]

@@rubymeaddle but the man was NOT okay with it. Why is the woman's opinion more important than the man's? Why? It's not, that's the answer. Both opinions need to be respected, and that's where a compromise needs to come in. You don't seem to understand that both parties have equal say.

[@rubymeaddle]

@@fantasystaplesuwu1554 then WHY IS HE INVOLVED WITH SOMEONE IN THAT CULTURE? Jfc why do people date outside their group and then get shocked when those people have different values. And "both opinions needs to be respected", sure, but his opinion at this point is "I think this is demeaning even though you, the affected party, do not, but I'm going to put my feelings over yours because I'm this progressive feminist man." It's the same energy as dudes who drag SAHMs because "it's outdated".

[@vanguardangel6912]

I always saw asking for “permission to marry” these days as more so asking for a blessing and to show how much you loved these people’s child. That’s how my family and my BIL saw it when he proposed to my sister.

[@CarinaCoffee]

Mark thanks for your waffle at the end. "Elliott's" story had me smiling as well as tearing up. The world would be a much better place if more people had compassion and weren't as judgmental as the OP in the third story.

[@okashi6]

Man, I really want an update to story 3. What a terrible person that OP was

[@romonaelrod7870]

Hi Mark, I loved your story there at the end. Much love to you and Poppy and all of the waffle gang.

[@Russman67]

Story 3: So OP took it upon themselves to out another person's history that was told to him and confidence. The young man had told his fiance everything. And rather than show that he could be trustworthy, he chose to out him to everybody else and then question whether or not they are the asshole. The answer, yes. It's not OP's story to tell.

[@anavaleriano7935]

Mark, thank you for sharing your story about the person you knew. Reminding us all that anyone with a troubled past is human and capable of just as much love, compassion, and kindness as they are themselves deserving may help make it easier for the next person we encounter in a troubled situation. I hope OP's partner can heal and learn that he is more than enough and a better person than OP's sister.

[@madambutterfly1997]

My god, what a fucking baby Op is that last story. Just keep the damn secret it’s not like he told you he was a predator or a murderer, who got off on a technicality. You’ll find that some of the most amazing people in this world have similar backgrounds to your brother-in-law.

[@beccaf262]

The last story feels like she just wanted everyone to judge him the way she was. There’s nothing wrong with seeing someone differently because they’re a different person than you thought but the point is that you shouldn’t treat them differently. She just wanted to be the secret teller I totally agree. Your waffle at the end has just proven my theory that the most disadvantaged people are usually the least judgemental because they know what it means to struggle.

[@shadamyandsonamylover]

When my dad proposed to my mom (a cute, 12 day “12 days of Christmas” Christmas Eve proposal) - the first thing my mom said was “Did you ask my dad?!” I would never let anyone ask my dad for my hand. But I also don’t really like my parents so I don’t care if they approve or not.

[@jacksonhaslam2753]

I will say this: I personally think that the tradition these days is less about actually needing permission, and more about showing that you respect your future spouse's family. At least, that's the way it should be.

[@savageinkstudios2969]

I wouldnt want to even date someone who saw themselves as someone elses property. Let alone marry.

[@allygatorrampage]

I loved your story at the end there Mark. I’m sure you made his day when you gave him a hand.

[@amberleeannalee1999]

I wish I had grown up as one of Marks neighbors. You are the kindest most empathetic emotionally intelligent man I’ve ever “met”. I am 10 years clean and even my family still judges me. I grew up in poverty and had an ED that I still suffer with. I was raised to not ever express anger or disapproval so I turned to meds. If I had a support system like Mark and this community I wouldn’t have made the choices I did. So grateful to have found this community. Blessed be

[@ravenvixen7903]

Maybe I missed something in the story, but from what I heard... Nothing was said by the father directly to OP, it was all relayed by the gf. Is the father really that controlling, or is it on the gf? Like, maybe he is, or maybe it was more of saying to gf "it would be nice if he asked my permission" or even "it doesn't bother me either way" and then gf said it was important. Maybe the father said "Heyy, I like this location better than this one" if gf asked for his opinion on venues and "it's traditional for the bride and groom to not see each other the night before the wedding" hell, these may not have even been comments to gf directly, but comments made during wedding planning for BIL and SIL. Like, I could be completely and utterly wrong, I just find it strange that it all came from gf's mouth and nothing from FIL directly, ya know?

[@whiskeyontherocks]

I love to hear the small tid bits of your upbringing you sometimes share with us. Don't stop doing that.

[@Bala_Niranna]

asking for "blessing" is so weird to me. its not sweet its just gross. i dont understand anyone who actually wants to do that gross old tradition

[@patricialacey6049]

S3: WTF???? OP that wasn't your story to tell and went and spread it around to everyone like a gossip and then tried to justify it.

[@TheLugiaSong]

I like the background! I love that you change the background seasonally/on holidays :) I also appreciate the personal stories, I wish there was a compilation of them. I still sometimes think back to the hoover one and giggle.

[@mikaelbertero4636]

Story 3: tbh I can't help think if I was op's sibling I would make absolutely sure to tell everyone how not to trust op since she would totally tell any secret/story she heard, specially since everyone has the right to make an informed decision to talk to her or not knowing her character

[@paulastiles5507]

Story #1: I was initially on the fence, as OP sounded a bit precious (or not telling everything). After the update, it seems clear there were some red flags OP hadn't previously mentioned because this was a conversation they needed to have and his fiancee really flipped out over it. I have a feeling he is right and won't be engaged for much longer. Future(?) DIL isn't the problem--Fianceezilla is. Story #2: My personal experience with bullies, especially in middle school, is that it has nothing to do with what you are actually doing. Bullies just pick someone and pile on (and they can all DIAF as far as I'm concerned), for funzies and to make themselves feel better. The only thing you'll end up doing by trying to avoid doing things they'll bully you for is lose all your individuality and *still* get bullied. Besides the little turdballs engaging in this (and their scumbucket parents), the main TA here is the school. The Principal on down are allowing racism to flourish and turning a blind eye. Glad OP and his wife are going to the school board. Story #3: So, OP heard a secret from futureBIL told in confidence, then blabbed it to her husband, then tried to make her sister feel bad by blabbing it to her (Sis already knew), then decided the entire family needed to hear this juicy gossip...and now wonders *if* she's TA? Yes, girl, YTA. YTA alllllllllll day.

[@putrapratama-sq8hu]

Story One: Common Examples of Cultural Clashes. Sign of lack of tolerance on the male part. Relationships is constant negotiation, if he doesnt want to negotiate obstacle then just bail like that, it meant that he doesn't vet his partner regarding commonality of values. and sign of complete disregard of compatibility issues.

[@locusxe1411]

@@putrapratama-sq8hu no

[@untitled-gv3qp]

​@@putrapratama-sq8hu 🤨 He bailed because the fiancee was allowing her dad to control them both. That's not a cultural thing. He was fully willing to compromise but there was no compromise when she gave a list of demands they had to have for the wedding just because that's how her dad wanted it.

[@untitled-gv3qp]

I was thinking the same thing for story 2. It's sad but the OP wasn't helping. All it'll take is for them to find something else to pick on her for and This'll all start over again.

[@putrapratama-sq8hu]

@@locusxe1411 Yes. it is.

[@sandrakranzwinther3286]

Hey Mark, your story about the young man from your past really touched me. So much that I'm losing my English skills and can't find the right words. Sending hugs instead. 🧡

[@Silence-1170]

Have a great rest of your night waffles, hope you are all doing well! Stay Safe and Stay positive!

[@broken_queer_but_fighting8589]

You too m8 much love 💜💜🤗🤗

[@joshuahaskellcarr]

I love the logic of the compromise in story 1. Just do it anyway.

[@miragedown]

Thank you for some many updated stories. My fave!

[@AnymousScreams]

I always found the asking for a parent's blessing to be creepy. It just feels like ownership, and I really wish that romantic partners would stop asking for their blessing. It can sometimes lead to parents controlling the wedding, engagement, etc. like OP learned. He should have just proposed without getting a blessing if they liked OP.

[@ajzephyros7454]

That's because, back in the day it was about ownership. Passing the ownership of Daughter to her to be Husband.

[@DePhoegonIsle]

eh, soo many people suck in that situation.

[@poohbear4515]

I’m religious, but not that religious. I believe in God, but am a fat, beautiful, bisexual b@tch. Lol So I understand how weird it is for the fiance to ask the father about marriage. Considering I don’t have my sperm donor anymore, nor a fiancé…but honestly, I wouldn’t want a blessing, or asked for permission. I would just want my mother, and family to trust my partner and help them feel like their part of my family.

[@OtakuWrath]

You ask as the man because when getting married the man traditionally gives his wife his own last name which means taking her fathers last name away from her so you're pretty much asking for the marriage blessing as a courtesy/apology for removing his daughter from the family as she joins her husbands family. I'm interested If the guy thinks this is old fashioned and wrong if he'd also be willing to take her last name instead of the other way around. Really If he was taking her last name I'd also expect the woman to ask his dad for the blessing to get married. For me losing your last name for someone else's is kind of like you're being taken from one family and entering another so I consider this something you should probably discuss with the owner of the original last name, traditionally the father but If It's the mother I would expect to ask the mother for permission as it's her last name you're taking away. Like If I was getting married and I was taking my fiance's last name I'd expect my partner to talk to my mom about it and ask her for the "blessing" since I got my last name from her. It really has nothing to do with owning the person but rather owning the family name and having that name get removed from a family member. It's important because they're losing a family member, the person will no longer be publicly known as part of your family since your family name is removed.

[@jakeand9020]

Toss the tradition part out, if her family is important to her you should want their blessing shouldn't you? Going against tradition for no reason other than to go against tradition is flipping stupid. I get not asking for "permission" and wouldn't, "blessing" is the traditional phrase now BECAUSE "permission" is outdated with negative connotation.

[@NoMoreHeroesAnymore1334]

G O O D. F that narc, she's not his PROPERTY. GROSS.

[@bloodlos]

Story one had a new update. They broke up.

[@stephjovi]

I always thought the "spending the night before the wedding seperate" is exactly because so many people live together before the wedding. A night apart to make the wedding night even better.

[@LibertyWolf1]

Story 2: I would've had my child tell the bullies. "Oh. I'm sooooo sorry that your parents don't love you enough to make you a lunch."

[@AndyyWithAY]

I'm a traditional woman in many ways, but t asking my dad or anyone for permission to marry me is not cool to me. I will make that clear to whoever I get serious with. HOWEVER some women still very much like it and consider it a requirement. If they talked about this beforehand and they should have, then YTA. If she just sprung this on him at this stage then NAH.

[@davidnash8208]

She should ask his parents then.

[@ddavis8988]

Story 1: I definitely think information is missing from this story. A person usually does not change like that so significantly unless there has been recent severe trauma and/or a memtal/emotional disorder accompanying it. What I think is the reality is that she was always like this, and he ignored/denied it for whatever reason. And then as the relationship went on, the volume got turned up on this til it reached this point.

[@Steampunkkids]

Story 2: Notice there is no update from the school district’s superintendent. Unfortunately, in most USA school districts, you have to legally sue them to get their attention. They are lazy toxic cesspools of humanity. I wish my tax dollars didn’t go to their undeserving overpaid paychecks.

[@LadyPinkmonsta]

Good lord that last story made me forget everything from the first two! OP is truly awful!

[@boogiebear3095]

Who the hell goes behind someone’s back like that? No that wasn’t okay. That poor dude.