My Daughter Cut Me Out Of Her Life When She Found Out I Had An Abortion r/Relationships

[@ariaryayy7314]

“Migrate to the uterus on their own?” The hell? That is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.

[@CannibalisticRapscallion]

I remembered when I was a sentient fertilized egg, it was so sad leaving all my egg friends behind as I made my way through the fallopian tubes by choice

[@Nevertoleave]

Agreed. It was spoken like a person who has no idea how reproduction works. That pastor is full of shit and has probably gotten people killed

[@MrsWheezer]

Yes!!!! A placenta previa pregnancy might ‘move’ away from the cervix, but that is completely different than ectopic. So many misinformed people making horrific decisions.

[@cmsxcb]

The foetus had a better chance of chewing it's way out than miraculously migrating into the womb by itself. Ectopic pregnancies are women AND baby killers. Essentially, they're a choice between 1 survivor or no survivors.

[@mizv4043]

the mother and the public school system failed the daughter by not making sure she had the sex ed knowledge to know that ectopic pregnancies implant into a tube and cannot move. it sounds like she wasnt taught that the baby isnt a free floating entity and is supposed to be attached to the uterus by the placenta.

[@chrispeterson3362]

My wife had an ectopic pregnancy the baby grew till it burst her fallopian tube causing her to bleed into her abdomen. She almost died and our child did. It's sad that these things happen but it's no one's fault and no one to blame

[@victoriakinny9210]

Is it okay if I ask you kind of a weird question? I'm just looking for your opinion because I had an ectopic pregnancy too but I got it removed early on

[@chrispeterson3362]

@@victoriakinny9210 of course

[@kristy1653]

The same thing happened to my mom in the 70’s with her 1st pregnancy. It ruptured and she would have died without emergency medical intervention. I don’t think a lot of people understand that a woman WILL die and a fetus cannot survive this type of pregnancy. This isn’t even counted as an “abortion” in my book, since the baby can’t survive either way.

[@mkuti-childress3625]

@@kristy1653Most people don’t think of it as an abortion-I certainly never did. I always thought of abortion as a choice. However, surgery for ectopic pregnancy-which _must_ be done-is also abortion, as are many other terminations that happen during unsafe pregnancy. People _must_ understand that, because it affects the laws that go into place that leave doctors unable to perform life and health saving procedures, like emergency ectopic pregnancy surgery. We already have the worst imaginable maternal mortality rate in the US, but people’s lack of understanding that abortion often means saving someone’s life often causes the public and politicians to pass laws that put women’s lives at risk.

[@thepineapple8434]

My sister also experienced an ectopic pregnancy. A little later höher tube would have burst. She was in great pain and the doctors immediately operated her. I don‘t even consider it an abortion, there is no option and no choice other than life or death for the woman. It is wild what stories people make up to demonise women who are already suffering. Organs don‘t just grow somewhere else and you can’t just transfer and replug a Fetus.

[@Mario-SunshineGalaxy64]

It’s reassuring to know that Dirk is actually a decent person, it was pretty shocking how the first story’s perspective changed drastically with the update.

[@darlingJasper]

I hate that I saw this and thought you were talking about homestuck why am I like this 😂😭

[@analyticmoviereviews101]

He's alianating Moira from the mom. Toxic and controlling ones usually do. Not just men either; women will do that and Moira needs to recognize the signs.

[@alaaesong164]

@@analyticmoviereviews101 Did you even listen to the story? Because that's not what happened at all, if anything Moira intentionally isolated herself away from her mother.

[@azadalamiq]

@@alaaesong164 cuz its all the hubbies religion, family etc. part of the controlling behavior is making the person self isolate.

[@alaaesong164]

@@azadalamiq ya'll really will say anything to NOT hold shitty women accountable for their own actions huh.

[@Krisna_K]

Honestly the daughter in the first story pissed me off! This is the main reason I stopped going to church! I had a medical emergency that required a procedure that amounted to an abortion! It was devastating but I was bleeding to death! I was never able to carry even one child to term!

[@untitled-gv3qp]

I sorta get it. She still aggravates me too, but I get it. The daughter had a traumatic experience and the SILs church swooped in to feed on her emotions from that. (They probably spun it in a way that she'd feel responsible for the attempted assault because she was "living in sin" by going to a college party. And she'd feel more endeared to the church because the guy who saved her was a member. It'd be easy for them to get into her head after that. And the pastor and his wife made her baby crazy and obsessive over the idea that children would bring purpose to her life. Her issues with pregnancy and the miscarriage made her emotional and she lashed out at her mom because the church gave her bad info and made her think that abortion for any reason was a sin. Those types of religious zealots have no real argument against abortion for the sake of saving lives so they have to lie and play on their followers blind faith. "If you just believe hard enough the life threatening condition will be healed and anyone who dies deserves it for not loving god enough". It's sad how people can get so caught up in their religion that they actually believe that mess. To the daughter the OP had something she's desperate for because the church took every other opportunity from her. In her brainwashed mind anyone who doesn't want the one thing that's supposed to make women whole is bad, no matter the circumstances. The OP is stronger than me. I would still help but I don't know if I would ever be able to look at someone the same after saying something like that to me. A medically necessary procedure is more like a miscarriage but with more time to agonize over it before because you get a warning that you have to do something or die alongside the fetus that's just as likely to die right alongside you anyway. That's not a pleasant or easy decision that religious nutjobs want people to believe it is.

[@CouncilEstateRach]

Please, don't let these people put you off Jesus or others as they are exactly what satan wants, so many think they're listening to God when it's actually satan. Anyone who doesn't show another human love, kindness and understanding then they are nit following the teachings of Jesus, simples huh!

[@DullestStar9299]

@@CouncilEstateRach The Bible does talk about separating the sheep from the goats... Guess how the goats are.

[@medusawitchful]

@@CouncilEstateRach don't blame satan. it all human. stop blame shit. also stop blame jesus like 'testing your faith' he never do that shit. stop

[@wildwikedwanderer1208]

Story 1: WOOOOOOO Dirk is actually a good guy and not a fanatic. This was an absolute rollercoaster

[@whitemoonwolf13]

I was so expecting it to go the other way and was pleasantly surprised. More often than not the religious party doubles down on their beliefs, not runs away from them

[@damien678]

I don't think he's a good guy. He still forced Moira to have sex when she wasn't in the mood because he didn't want them going to a doctor about why conception wasn't happening.

[@grapeicies]

@@damien678That’s what Moira said. Based on his story, it was the opposite. The truth is somewhere between their stories.

[@veezopolis]

I mean if you believe the brainwashed loony ​@damien678

[@jackierenee1691]

Why am I not surprised that the daughter's pastor was involved in a scandal later in the story. Glad to be rid of him. My mom had some pregnancy problems, including an ectopic pregnancy. I'm her only child that was able to be successfully carried to full term. I feel for anyone struggling like op, there's nothing to be ashamed of. Sometimes our bodies just can't do the things that we want them to do.

[@jamalsodipe772]

I can answer that 1 for the past. Who knows how many 100 years? The church has had a lot and I mean a lot of corrupt pastors Priests, cardinals and popes

[@Davtwan]

When you hear “evangelical,” you just _know_ it won’t end well. An evangelical church that’s honest is as rare as hen’s teeth.

[@Becks-and-books]

and even when bodies do "it right" there's no shame in having an abortion

[@jablue4329]

@@Davtwan Unfortunately rather accurate. I feel like I always just have to brace myself after they enter the conversation.

[@jackierenee1691]

@@Becks-and-books agreed. I had a friend who had to have one during a break up with her abusive partner. He messed with her birth control originally. A horrible situation, but she's much safer now. That man should never be allowed to be a parent. I'd hate to think what he'd do to his child if that's how he treated his girlfriend.

[@jackfaraday5624]

Whilst I'm glad for op and her daughter and all, I hope OP got a sincere apology from her daughter as well, that was some narsty junk she said

[@clownrat5759]

Seriously. It seems like everything Moira did to both her husband and mother was ignored :/

[@randomusername3873]

Really easy to apologize while extending their hand asking for money

[@untitled-gv3qp]

The daughter didn't even know whether the OP wanted the baby or not. She basically screamed at her mom for the equivalent of a miscarriage. I don't know if I could forgive that.

[@sazzaxeight3124]

Tbf though it also sounds like she had serious ptsd after she was drugged and went compleeeetly off the deep end trying to find comfort in her new found religion and trauma bonded to her knight in shining armour, seems clear she can't process trauma well but hopefully therapy will help.

[@Azulakayes]

She probably never apologised.

[@slytherinlibrarian3501]

Wait, what? OP had an _ECTOPIC PREGNANCY_ and she considered getting it removed an abortion? OMG, poor OP. What a quack pastor Moira and Dirk had. My mum had one when I was 5. I keenly remember how much pain she was in before it reached the point where she had to be hospitalised. It was frightening and after she came home I understood that she'd had a baby in the wrong place and it had to be fixed. At the age of _five_ I understood that this could have killed my mother. We were avid churchgoers in my youth as well.

[@ceeshnia]

It is a medical abortion, that is why it is considered an abortion; because it is.

[@slytherinlibrarian3501]

@ceeshnia Even with the distinction, Moira treated OP as if she had an elective abortion by choice rather than a medical procedure to save her life.

[@aspidistraeliator]

It is still medically considered a abortion. And it should be, as there are other reasons than inconvenience and lack of birth control to have such a procedure.

[@ElCid48]

a miscarriage is not an abortion and to this so called Christian pastor get your bloody facts straight. my mother and my two sisters and a niece has a miscarriage and it is so very hard on the mother.

[@Artemis_-yy1nt]

Yes! I know it's technically an abortion, but an embryo, that was never gonna develop and be born never had a different fate than death, so it's more a miscarriage. That's why I'm sad OP calls it an abortion, like it's a regular one. It's not, and phrasing it like that is only hurtful. She lost her baby. I'd rather call this a misacarriage than an abortion, because that is more what it is. Even if doctors remove an embryo with no chance of living before it can do more harm to the mother, it's still a miscarriage. Because if the doctors hadn't done anything, the embryo still would've died and be miscarried anyways.

[@ANBU_Black_0ps24]

I can't believe daughter and husband actually got out of that cult. Good for them and I hope they find their path ok.

[@randomusername3873]

They are literally only back to ask for money, wtf

[@davenunyabusiness4893]

honestly it sounds like fan fiction. TOTALLY FAKE.

[@andyo4797]

@@davenunyabusiness4893 idk. These evangelicals really are THAT nuts

[@TheScaletIbisNW]

I was raised Evengelical and I luckily got out. Also, I went to a catholic school so thank god I had a good liberal education that helped me cut through the bs.

[@davenunyabusiness4893]

@@andyo4797 I think you are putting too much stock in what MSNBC tells you.

[@britnicox3929]

Holy shit man I’m so glad that Pastor got found out so early because many people like him don’t get found out until decades later and by then hundreds of people are hurt and manipulated by them before they were stopped. Also very glad that Dirk turned out to be much better of a person than he seemed from OP’s perspective. I wish all of them the absolute best in their recovery and that couple’s deconstruction from some really toxic manipulative vitriol

[@badkitty4922]

As someone who's suffered through an ectopic pregnancy, among other conditions that made it impossible for me to have children, my heart breaks for both OP and Moira. I didn't have support from the father or anyone else either. I'm glad this story seems to have a happier resolution, and I'll light one of my Wiccan candles for them as a family. 😉💖🕯🌛🌕🌜

[@broken_queer_but_fighting8589]

🤗🤗💜💜

[@badkitty4922]

@@broken_queer_but_fighting8589 🫂🫂💖😘Love you, Mate!

[@RavenHaili]

Merry meet 🖖

[@badkitty4922]

@@RavenHaili Merry Meet and Blessed Be Ye and Yours. 😘💖🫂

[@badkitty4922]

@winterseagull Thank you so much! It used to bother me and break my heart. But I'm in my early 50s now, and I've come to believe that not everyone is meant to be a parent. There are so many people who SHOULDN'T have children, if you know what I mean. Besides, I've got nieces, nephews, my fur kids, and plenty of love to go around. 😉😘💖🫂

[@kristinewatson3702]

OMG this is the best update ever. I'm so glad that Moira escaped that life and Dirk is not the man he seemed to be. What a great new beginning for all involved.

[@whitneybennett4857]

Yeah, I felt bad for OP (C'mon, that "abortion" helped her literally survive!) and then Moira and Dirk. No child should have to grow up in a home like that. I'm all for having your young kids go to church with you, but what they did to young Dirk really messed him up and came close to turning him (and OP's daughter) into something he's not (a horrible, judgmental POS).

[@kichikitsu]

​@@whitneybennett48571) don't put quotations on abortion -- it's a medical abortion. which is still an abortion. which is also exactly why anti-abortionists have never ever been "pro-life" because they will literally shame pregnant people for getting a life saving operation done. 2) dirk is still a rapist. don't know how y'all are ignoring the "whether Moira was in the mood or not" part when they were trying to conceive, but that's still rape. leaving a cult doesn't magically absolve him of raping his wife for some shitty goal to "prove" he can get her pregnant.

[@dawudhinton5754]

​@@kichikitsuThat was from her perspective. Moira wanted to keep having sex, he even said he would skip sex and she'd shame him. Did you not hear the part where she said God is punishing us for you pulling out?

[@seregiel9541]

@@kichikitsu When you're having fertility issues this is often a default for many couples and it may have been poorly articulated, particularly if Moira is the one who wanted the large family. I know quite a few pairs that had to force/schedule it in and it definitely stopped the want and became a chore they both egged eachothr on to finish.

[@Ospyro3em]

I'm glad this had a positive ending. Cults are seriously scary things.

[@Mallard_of_May14]

As someone who used to be in one I agree, they have their way with words that’s for sure

[@swearimnotarobot3746]

As soon as it said “evangelical Christian group”, I immediately thought “cult”. 😂

[@zerobolt9506]

​@@swearimnotarobot3746same

[@norbitical745]

I agree, I'm glad. Though if that was my daughter I would've slapped some sense into that empty skull of hers

[@AryonaSamoto]

I'm hope that OP's Daughter and son-in-law find peace and happiness. I'm so happy OP has her daughter back and now a son-in-law who did his best to navigate a bad situation.

[@georgegarvey7338]

How is Dirk trying to "navigate" this when he won't even go to the doctor himself. That's just a bad excuse for crappy behavior.

[@amandajohnson3531]

​@@georgegarvey7338I'm guessing you commented before getting to the update.

[@georgegarvey7338]

@@amandajohnson3531 No, afterwards. When you "assume", you make an ass out of me & an ass out of you. There too many people on You Tube that keep making assumptions about people without any pryor evidence. ESPECIALLY WAMEN!!!

[@amandajohnson3531]

@@georgegarvey7338 Then why did you comment something that had nothing to do with what the person was talking about, and only the pregnancy that was talked about before the update? And not, you know, the cult stuff? And how he tried navigating an escape from it while outright avoiding getting pregnant. I don't think going to a doctor to get a sperm count would have helped the situation.

[@georgegarvey7338]

@@amandajohnson3531 I commented on exactly the article & you've missed the bus. GOOD BYE.

[@safespacebear]

I went from hating Dirk to singing his praises. The part where he had such faith in his mother in law, that she'd care for them if they just went home. As a parent myself that would fill me with happiness and joy to hear I was thought of like that.

[@damien678]

Let's not forget that he still forced Moira to have sex when she wasn't in the mood because he didn't want them going to a doctor about why conception wasn't happening.

[@broken_queer_but_fighting8589]

I feel so bad for op in story 1 i wannna give her hugs, her doing that saved her life it was a needed operation

[@broken_queer_but_fighting8589]

Im glad they've made up and are working on it

[@telinhajp]

Those so called "pastors" are just narcissists, controlling, and greedy. It's so easy to manipulate vulnerable people. It's really sad. I hope they'll find a religion that makes them happy.

[@broken_queer_but_fighting8589]

Sorry I can't see your response

[@JK-sh8rc]

What's not being discussed here is the fact that an ectopic pregnancy is NOT a viable pregnancy. So removing it is not an abortion, it's a procedure that saves the mother's life. It's not hard to understand. Similar to a rather heated discussion I had one time with a coworker who insisted that the Plan B pill was an abortion pill. Plan B prevents a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. No implanting = no pregnancy. Coworker is of course entitled to her opinion, but her opinion was based on emotions not logic imo.

[@maggpiprime954]

The three of them are going to need a _lot_ of therapy. 😞

[@Davtwan]

I’m glad Dirk and Moira realized the cult-Ike trap that town is and finally got out of there. They have a _lot_ of work to do for healing themselves and unlearning lies, but I have a feeling they’ll make it (even if they break up in the end).

[@Charles-sd7xu]

I’m so glad op was able to reunite with he daughter so quickly and I feel so bad for Moira and dirk because with his context his behavior really does all connect back to a young man trapped by his religion

[@roowyrm9576]

I am no longer a Christian, however, I grew up as a Quaker, and in my teens did research into Christian theology. The bigotry that comes out of these "evangelical Christian" groups is totally against everything that I understood is the foundation of Christian faith and life.

[@damien678]

Gotta say, I'm a pagan and have little respect if any for most Xtian faiths, but what I know about Quakers ...they're pretty alright actually

[@Kris-wo4pj]

​@@damien678only the british one is chill. The american one got evangalicalized theyre more chill than the rest of the churches in the states but thats still not saying much.

[@wordforger]

Modern day Pharisees is what I call them.

[@DullestStar9299]

@@wordforger Den of vipers you say? Why, yes they are!

[@TruthSayer2007]

You can’t “used to be a Christian”. Once you know the LORD, that’s it. It’s not like used to be a Buddhist or something. Once saved, always saved.

[@AndyyWithAY]

I liked that this story had two contrasting approaches to religion. One was unforgiving and culty and the other was accepting and loving. We hear too much about the former and not enough about the latter. A lot of churches are people's second or only family

[@Raggmopp-xl7yf]

Boy, isn't that the truth! And it's a shame, really. I know the "judgy" ones think they're doing what's right, but it helps no one! I strongly feel it's a matter of being taught wrong. They're sincere, but end up doing SO much more damage!

[@serpentmaster1323]

❤❤❤ from an (atheist? Heck knows if that’s the right term) Im so greatfull for stories like these which keep me out of the religion is evil echo chamber. I don’t feel the same about big man in the sky, but I do understand the need for spirituality. Unfortunately I don’t have happy memories of my home church mostly because I hated going and wanted to do literally anything else, but when I remember the programs the church organized, the things we actually did for other people, and the good friends my parents made, (and the friends my grandmother still has, while we live states away from her) I wish I definitely understand why they miss it now and I desperately hope anyone who needs it in their life is able to find it.

[@GhostBear3067]

I am glad my brother and I found a very accepting and understanding church home. A few years back someone, we still do not know who, spread homophobic leaflets around the church campus and our pastor lost his shit, making sure to gather them all up for disposal/destruction all while furiously stating his church did not and would not abide any bigotry. Nobody in the congregation had ever seen him so angry before or since.

[@Nortarachanges]

@@GhostBear3067, absolutely bad ass ^_^

[@bellerain381]

I was so happy to hear OP’s church is more of the “live and let live” mindset! We need more of that!

[@lianabaddley8217]

I had an ectopic pregnancy. I was literally (according to the Dr) 30 minutes from dying. It was the most painful thing I have ever gone through. It was not an abortion. The egg implanted in the fallopian tube and as it grew it ruptured the tube and I bled internally. I bled internally for 2 days before I was rushed into surgery. I almost died from my organs drowning in my blood.

[@user-lr7dk7mt2w]

I'm really sorry for what you had happen to you it was an abortion though it's a very similar procedure Abortions aren't bad they are Healthcare and acknowledging that will help to make Healthcare easier and safer for women who need them we shouldn't demonize abortions just because it's a scary word and again I'm so sorry for what you went through

[@ondank]

Dirk went from villain to absolute MVP. Escaped from a cult, protected her from R, she drags him back to the cult, he sticks by her but encourages her to make connections outside of it and then finally gets him and her out. Yeah he made mistakes but he really did good here.

[@damien678]

He still forced Moira to have sex when she wasn't in the mood because he didn't want them going to a doctor about why conception wasn't happening.

[@Nevertoleave]

@@damien678 from the sounds of it, Dirk tried to avoid getting her pregnant and they were shit at communicating. Perhaps he suggested sex when he knew she wouldn’t be in the mood so she would turn him down and it backfired on him when she would agree. Thus the pulling out. They likely didn’t have any fertility issues as he was doing the only thing he could, besides being honest and talking to her, by pulling out. If back in college he had mentioned from the start that he was questioning his religion the story would probably be, he stopped going to the group, during the pandemic they moved in with me, and returned to school when it reopened.

[@GLoLChibs]

Story 1 is the kind of stuff I think about when people insist religion isn't dangerous or harmful and that religious people don't indoctrinate others. Post update: I'm glad Moira got out but also glad that for once, we get to hear the POV of sons and men pushed into these extreme religions. They get overshadowed so often and viewed as villains without realizing they are also victims.

[@damien678]

Depends on what religion. I'm a solitary pagan so I'm really not looking to convert anyone nor do I expect to find others of my exact faith in my area. I have talked to others about paganism in general but I know my path isn't for everyone and don't mention it unless asked or unless it's relevant to what the other person is looking for

[@cjandauntieyaya1446]

Careful, people coming out of a cult will have a hard time deprogramming as well as breaking from the ritualistic style of living. It is akin to an addiction. Moira and her husband could very well be scooped up by another cult due to them being accustomed to the wording and manipulations that are used. Glad to hear the daughter is getting therapy, but I hope it is SECULAR because yet again, any cult can get to her through her religious therapist.

[@hydrokineticpowerhouse]

Story 1: I’m with the mom any real Christian would understand that. Also the church her daughter joined sounds crazy and given the misinformation the pastor’s spreading I suspect he’s turned it into his own cult. Edit: Also it’s not sinful to stay single. I can’t remember the exact verse but it is written in the Bible that you have more time to dedicate to God if you stay single.

[@aina3387]

Exactly! Also, a lot of churches actually dont think you should get married again if you get divorced for reasons other than infidelity or abuse.

[@GLoLChibs]

Sounds like the typical evangelical church.

[@AppleStrawberryLove]

Having grown up in several evangelical churches (we moved a lot), I will tell you right now, I know the verse, but if you bring it up, most churches will tell you that verse essentially applies to men only. It's more time to dedicate to God so you can serve the church better as a leader, and only men can be leaders. My parents got divorced and when I asked the pastors about that verse because my parents made me very marriage averse, they danced around the issue while also making it clear that you, girl, are not the target of that verse. You are to get married. Not surprisingly, I left that church as soon as I was an adult in part due to these teachings. A lot of those churches are deeply misogynistic.

[@25Erix]

@@AppleStrawberryLove I'm one of those people who thinks that while some verses were definitely written with men in mind, you can still apply them to women, especially in this day and age. The Bible is equal opportunity. It's humans who made it not so. I don't consider myself a religious Christian anymore. I'm more on the spiritual side these days. A good way to counter Christian-based misogyny/misandry is to point how where Eve came from. She came from Adam's side to be his equal, under his arm to be protected, and by his heart to be loved. Not his feet to be stepped on. Not from his head to be superior. We lost track of that somewhere.

[@sbr8015]

@@GLoLChibs It sounds like an IBLP church or a Quiverful group and not a typical evangelical church. The documentary Shiny Happy People talks about this cult group. They're the ones who insist on getting little advanced eduction, keeping women at home and under their husband's authority, and having as many babies as possible.

[@AndyyWithAY]

Whoa!! That update. This is like a totally different story, but I'm more inclined to believe Dirk's version of events. It seems more realistic. Does Moira have mental health issues? 🤔 Does she have issues knowing what's reality and not? I'm glad she reunited with OP, but there's much more going on here.

[@Sifya]

A cult tries to take you when you are more vulnerable. The jeova witness tried the same with me but failed. But I started to study Bible with them because I was very blue, unfortunately for them I'm very stubborn and in the end they dumped me with a text:we don't see improve so it is better to stop. I don't know feel badass to resist a cult or offered because I got dropped 😂

[@miafiolekova5817]

I mean, the fact she was druged at a party definetly shook her up. When u realize u were veeery close to something very bad happening to u, it does change u. I think that was the first impuls for Moira.

[@Russman67]

I'm glad Moira and Dirk made their way out of Dirk's family cult. They aren't out of the woods yet and who's to say Dirk won't let his family back in (People pleasers have gotta please) but hopefully they can build some spines living around OP.

[@LanceNRusso]

Great video, there is nothing like a perfect marriage or relationship, I learnt that in everything there is always a solution, 5 years ago I and my wife divorced because we were having some difficulties in our marriage but we are back together, it was a really bad phase but we got through it.

[@LanceNRusso]

@josephregland its always difficult to let someone you love go, but in my case I had the help of a spiritual adviser who saved my marriage from collapsing her name is SHELLY RENEE WHITE.

[@LanceNRusso]

@josephregland kindly look her up online and you won't regret it.

[@myounakami]

Ngl, when Dirk showed up without Moira and began apologizing, my mind went to the worst case scenario that Moira had suffered pregnancy complications and died because she had trusted their faith would fix the problem; you have no idea how relieved I was when it was revealed she was waiting nearby in a coffee shop. They may have made mistakes, but they survived those mistakes and have the opportunity to grow from the experience.

[@jennstewart3003]

I am so glad the daughter and SIL found a way out of their trauma.

[@Tokuijin]

For the first one, I don't think there's a whole lot Op could do, though, while she's nice enough, she does sound smothering. No, Moira, that's not ectopic pregnancy works.

[@romiimaggi9624]

The minute Moira said her PASTOR talked about a medical prosidure I just lost it.

[@MargaritaOnTheRox]

​@@romiimaggi9624What would the pastor say if an atheist doctor was giving religious advice?

[@Habitarse]

@Mark: I was tearing up myself too. Foremost I was expecting to hear an awful news. I’m so glad they got out of this abusive cult.

[@boneymeroney2674]

I was stunned to hear the former church leader describing ectopic pregnancies, as if he was an expert or had a clue... and his followers just drank up his purple kool-aid without questioning. 😮 This has to be one of the best updates in the History of Updates. Mom did everything right.

[@JO_Artificial]

My Aunt too was brainwashed by a cult and she left her 5 young kids under 13 years only to be sexually used by the youthful cult leader and later her son went and rescued her, she later went back only to hit rock bottom when her son rescued her again, hope she stays now.

[@kentario1610]

That sounds like an absolutely miserable life, I really hope your aunt stays put, out of that place, and heals.

[@JO_Artificial]

@@kentario1610 He is actually planing on building her a house very soon, I think she has finally got back to her right mind after realizing that she is aging with nothing to her name.

[@cattyanamontes5724]

Love when I just happen to be scrolling through KZbin and it tells me you posted 55 seconds ago 🤣

[@maggpiprime954]

I feel so badly for OP and her daughter. And for her SIL, too. I'm so glad they got out, but what a journey they have ahead of them! 😞

[@Nicholem718-1]

OP is so much more compassionate than me… I wouldn’t have apologized for the nonsensical comment about the ectopic pregnancy.

[@louellacharlton4425]

I had this type of pregnancy and almost died. Had to have 10 units of blood, Lost 40lbs in 5weeks, yeah don't recommend it. To say that it would have moved is criminal! Tyvm Mark, stay safe please. Peace.

[@Indi_Waffle_Girl]

Dirk is so brave holy shit. All three of them are. It's easier than people think to be manipulated into getting wrapped up in religious - or other - fervor. OP was literally their only lifeline, it sounds like. I'm so proud of her for sticking with them, for letting Dirk in and hearing him out. I'm proud of Dirk and Moira for taking those terrifying steps to leave and uproot their whole entire lives. As someone who's done it myself: it's bloody difficult. The part where OP ran to her daughter at the coffee shop down the road played in my head like a scene from a movie. (Great narration from you too mark (: ) Left me with a few tears if I'm being honest haha. What a fantastic update, OP, I'm so happy for you. There's healing to come, for everyone, but this is a MONUMENTAL set of steps in the best, healthiest direction. I hope that Dirk and Moira can find the spiritual upliftment and community that they are seeking, in a way that is wholesome and loving and healthy, whatever form that takes. I'm so happy for OP that she got her daughter back, and I'm so happy for Dirk and Moira that they escaped such a horrific situation. I do hope they are really careful, about sharing information with any of Dirk's family members or people back at their old home / old community. Religious (and other) fanaticism can drive people to do scary things that they wouldn't necessarily otherwise do, because it is in the name of accomplishing a greater goal with sometimes seemingly eternal consequences. So just...stay safe, everybody. Much love from an internet stranger who escaped a cult themselves ❤❤ I highly recommend therapy and trauma work. And maybe holding off on having kids for the time being, until they are both in a better mind space and have more physical safety and security. Just because kids are stressful (and wonderful, not denying that), and it might be most helpful to do some work on healing themselves and their relationship first. I'm still so impressed that Dirk is a better man than we thought he was, from OP's understandable first impressions. Instead of trapping Moira with kids and isolation, he was the one trying to get them out, even if he didn't know how. I'm so glad he brought her with him, and didn't abandon her. And Moira - she said and did some really hurtful things, about OP's ectopic pregnancy termination, and about Dirk's masturbation and his "husbandly duties" to get her pregnant. Those weren't / aren't okay. But she isn't a bad person. She sounds like a good person who was taken advantage of and had her mind poisoned / brainwashed. College is a vulnerable time. I have faith in her, in all of them. To make things right, with each other and themselves, and to heal from this situation and become even better versions of themselves. I hope that the sexual hatred and shame is something Moira and Dirk will work on dismantling. It's possible: I've done it. But it feels scary at first, because for me it was all I ever knew, even if eventually I started questioning things like Dirk did. ❤❤ I wish them all the best on this journey - healing and loving themselves and each other, and going wherever their individual paths take them, whether Dirk and Moira stay together or go their own ways. ❤

[@PrincessQ-fj9ly]

Oh my gosh! Poor OP........She lost her daughter to a terrifying cult. She didn't deserve that at all. 😢 Not to mention she had no choice, but to abort her ectopic pregnancy. That alone is a tragedy. 😢 All she can do now is wait for her daughter to come back to her while moving on. After Update: This is a very sweet and positive ending. OP has her daughter AND gained a son in law. And they're going to therapy together. Sounds like a happy ending(in the making at least)in my opinion. I really hope this family makes it! ❤

[@BallJoinedWing]

There needs to be a national awareness campaign on how ectopic pregnancies work

[@jamieboer3466]

Yea, what's funny is even in states that banned abortion, you can treat ectopic pregnancies because it's only considered an abortion.

[@blair2743]

Story 1: This is why I'm not a huge fan of religion. Not everyone who's religious is like the daughter or her husband, sure, but the ones who are like that definitely give me second thoughts about looking into it.

[@GiordanDiodato]

I'd disown the daughter

[@neko3571]

I am sorry for this. Most of this people do not know anything about christianity.... If you choose to look into it I recoment Amen Podcast. Alex is a really good teacher.

[@Davtwan]

Sadly, a lot of people in positions of power abuse the fact that people come to them for answers and guidance. Thankfully, newer churches popping up have been more liberal and open minded. However, they’re still outnumbered. Maybe one day...

[@bloodlos]

Find your own truth and believe in that. I am not what many would call a traditional religious person but I have my own faith. The people like in story one pick and choose what part of the bible to believe in. For me I see it as a teaching, parts of it are outdated and need to be changed but the core is still there. Treat people as you wish to be treated, be kind and compassionate, don’t do harm. I’m not sure why so many people feel like their way is the only way but don’t let them put you off finding your beliefs. If you’re not interested in religion, but are interested in following a lifestyle or a teaching, I suggest Buddhism.

[@blair2743]

@@bloodlos This is really helpful. Thank you - I'll look into that.

[@TwiggyHetfield27]

Once OP said "evangelical" I thought "oh shit" Believing a fetus can just magically swim down the Fallopian tubes during an ectopic pregnancy is the most batshit thing I've ever heard. It's nice to hear they both got out of that sick church/community. Hopefully OPs church will be more their speed.

[@GhostBear3067]

I am glad my brother and I found a very accepting and understanding church home. A few years back someone, we still do not know who, spread homophobic leaflets around the church campus and our pastor lost his shit, making sure to gather them all up for disposal/destruction all while furiously stating his church did not and would not abide any bigotry. Nobody in the congregation had ever seen him so angry before or since.

[@TwiggyHetfield27]

@@GhostBear3067 He sounds like a fantastic pastor. While I'm not Christian a few family members are. My uncle especially, goes to church every Sunday & just so happens to be gay. He was able to find a church that was very accepting.

[@catnoir1333]

Story 1: these kind of stories boil my blood. I really don't like the over religious families that want huge families. They're more like cults then anything else. Just before this video I was listening to another story where a hospital had to abort this lady's baby to save her life and she couldn't have anymore after this. She already seven other children and the husband tried suing the hospital for aborting the baby.

[@dustyrose192]

I heard that its about raising an army. I don't get it. I understand why jewish family have a lot of kids. Six for six million

[@cheekyftoro8962]

There is no doffrence between a religion and a cult they are the same thing. Remember the catholic church still preaches that contraception such as condoms the pill ect are intrinsically wrong and not to be used.

[@simonO712]

​@@cheekyftoro8962While there is certainly a significant overlap, not only are not all religions cults but not all cults are religions.

[@cheekyftoro8962]

@@simonO712 A cult by definition is a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object. Is that not exactly what a religion is devotion respect and reverence to a higher power. Care to name a religion that dosent fit the cult definition.

[@jamieboer3466]

​@@cheekyftoro8962as a Christian with alot of Catholic friends, no they do not you are spreading lies.

[@samoanjoseph1457]

When it was Dirk who reached out instead of Moira, I thought, "Oh man, she ran off with and got pregnant by the real cult leader, and Dirk has no idea where she is."

[@SpookyTiney]

Yeah I totally teared up when the mother found out her daughter was at the coffee shop.

[@sandeesandwich2180]

I am shocked that there was a not unhappy update to this story. Thank goodness!

[@1kokokala10]

I love that the husband wasn't a monster or a villain. He was just an unfortunate guy who was born in to a cult and some how by all odd got himself and his recently indoctrinated wife out. I'm so glad OP didn't cut contact because she had every right to. If she did her daughter truly would have been alone. Stories like this give me hope in the world.

[@83gemm]

I always wondered how people could be FULLY against abortion like in cases of ectopic pregnancy. I guess now I know.

[@LizHellsing]

You didn't have an abortion... you had a surgical intervention.

[@LizHellsing]

They CANNOT migraine to the uterus thats not even possible!

[@CannibalisticRapscallion]

It was an abortion, it was the termination of a pregnancy. Miscarriages were originally called abortions

[@SavagePassion666]

The saddest thing of all is how Moira is so fucking impressionable she'll set any relationship that doesn't indulge her zealotry on fire. It's gotta hurt being the parent to that let alone married to it.

[@Passions5555]

Honestly, I wanted to slap OP's daughter even before she lashed out at her mother about the medical procedure. I know she was traumatized by her experience, but I feel her latching onto the toxic teachings of this church gave birth to this really self-righteous superiority in her that she turned on to her mother. Which I have a hard time accepting because of how judgemental and disgusting her attitude was. And if Dirk can be believed, it seems the daughter was not entirely truthful about certain things about her marriage with Dirk just to manipulate her mother to be on her side during her miscarriage drama. What a shit show. OP deserves better than this selfish kid who flip-flopped as she saw fit.

[@JoanieBean]

OP is stronger than me. The minute daughter called her a bitch for the LIFE SAVING abortion, I would have gone Low Contact. No one talks to me like that about my trauma, not even a child coz fuck you!!!!

[@madalice5134]

I'm glad that OP was able to have a happier update and that the daughter and Dirk weren't a conplete loss. OP sounds like a genuinely good, forgiving person, who really knows what unconditional love is. I hope Moira appreciates how rare that actually is. I was so mad for OP before the updates after her daughter said such cruel, ignorant things to her. If someone I confided in used that to hurt me and called me such vile things, the conversation would end in bruises as well as tears, but OP is a betrer person than me. I hope things will be okay and they all heal going forward.

[@Passions5555]

If it were me in that situation it would end with me in handcuffs, not just bruises for the other person.

[@Nope017]

The removal of an ectopic pregnancy isn't considered an abortion, it's an almost mandatory surgery just FYI for anyone who's gone through that I dont think it's okay for the world to act as if it is the same and the mother to suffer that judgment when it's just not an abortion.

[@Chantal_P-v4x]

That update was not at all what I was expecting - that it was actually the daughter who had become super religious by her own choice, and it was actually the husband that wanted out all along! But I'm so happy it worked out. I wasn't sure it would, or at least not quickly.

[@megannapier9269]

I had an ectopic pregnancy that ruptured at 6wks. It wasnt considered an abortion- it was life saving emergency surgery, i would have died of the internal bleeding. Its terrible people stigmatize this because its not a choice, the baby cant be implanted (i cried, begging them too) elsewhere. What a terrible thing to go through.

[@deborahyoung1873]

I am a Christian ( Methodist), and that group sounds crazy!

[@paulclay4229]

Story 2: poor dirk. He was in a cult and got dragged back in.

[@kylebroflovski8656]

My eldest sister had an ectopic pregnancy as her first pregnancy, she wanted the foetus to be put in her womb but they told her the foetus was too big and was about to burst her tube any moments, she had the abortion even though she wanted that baby. You don't always do what you want, only what you can.

[@OmniscientlyMe]

The more stories I hear involving Evangelicalism, the more I think it should be labeled a cult and appropriately outlawed.

[@Covargo]

The Dirk twist caught me off guard talk about between a rock and a hard place. Glad all parties involved got through it together. Maybe god saw life was shit and gave the couple a chance at a better life in the form of a loving life saver of a mother.

[@SpookiCooki]

I did NOT see that coming. I thought this would end horribly.

[@katraylor]

That turned out 100,000 times better than I thought it would. I'm really happy for Dirk and OP (though a bit peeved at Moira).

[@michaelwoods3651]

Story 1- very religious people are usually the most closed minded, mean and least godly people you could encounter! God is love but only to the people who believers feel are worthy. Hypocrisy at its finest.

[@travislee3203]

That applies to the God denying “liberals” as well.

[@honeybelle1203]

@@travislee3203Uhh... what does *that* mean?? 🤨

[@samiulhuda4001]

@@honeybelle1203 it means being closed minded has nothing to do with liberals. being closed minded is being so entrenched in your own perspective you cant even entertain anything outside your field of view.

[@samiulhuda4001]

god isnt just about love. its also about duty responsibility and judgement. but in a fair way

[@AndyyWithAY]

Ectopic pregnancies can never be viable, no? I'm pretty sure surgery is always needed. Even if OP DID have an abortion, that's her choice. It's not a decision I think I'd ever make, but I'll always be pro- choice because a woman should have the right to choose. Dirk is the most AHish name I've heard in my life 😒 This guy is a panoramic red flag. Soulless doctor? You do know doctors can be Christians too 😒🤦🏾‍♀️🤦🏾‍♀️ Honestly I think this is a blessing from the LORD himself. She's not tied to this man forever. She can still get out unscathed ETA: Wait for the update. Mind blown!! 🤯🤯

[@Boundwithflame23]

He’s not so much a red flag as a red marquee Edit after update: actually maybe it’s just the church pastor

[@S_K23]

Yes ectopic pregnancies are not viable and contrary to what the ignorant pastor told Moira they do not migrate. And yes you do always need surgery because a woman can literally die since the fetus is growing in a place it is not supposed to.

[@kitkakitteh]

Ectopic pregnancies are never viable, it’s outside of the uterus.

[@Wakilonzo]

Sometimes they self destruct but mostly it needs to be removed.

[@tamsel814]

I think in extremely rare cases they can be viable. Rare enough to be featured in tv shows about unusual pregnancies. I saw an episode on it once where the baby was born extremely premature and both mom and baby ended up surviving but that was uncertain for a while.

[@Josku2411]

Oop early and pondering do i draw now..or clean now..cuz cleaning late at night hits diff but also needs to be so quiet..but also drawing late at night hits diff too

[@MrBuns-yi2hk]

I don't think there is necessarily a problem with getting married as a young adult. You don't need to quite going to college to be married. You could even still be a mother and a student. What bothers me is that she married a guy she doesn't really know quit school, and moved far away from her family for this man.

[@cpaul9269]

story 1 - Evangelical toxicity man. I have been through this (being abused - not physically - by these people) in my childhood. Poor OP. This is exactly how these people treat anyone that doesn't parrot all their beliefs. For people that are supposedly so dedicated to "jesus Christ" and appear tp compete with each other by the hour as to who can say that name more often, they sure don't seem to have read and understood their own religious texts. It's disgusting and I hope so very much her daughter wakes the F up and leaves the cult - but don't count on it. They are very powerful manipulators.

[@neiltheblaze]

Now THAT was a genuine roller coaster! I'm glad they flew from the cult.

[@unidraguine6473]

i listen to these stories every day at work. the one with moira i heard on tiktok a few days ago before bed and im really happy about the update

[@mrbirk626]

Ah man ah come on. That last story had me tearing up.

[@sheillaen2]

It's hard to move on because you are scared for your kid, these cult will hurt and molset and kill to protect themself. Cullist are VERY dangerous people!

[@cheekyweb8055]

Definitely was tearing up on that update!!

[@donnamason938]

My middle daughter cut off contact when her cult church decided I was evil and would send demons to attack her and my grandson. She also tried to force my other 2 daughters to cut me off with the threat of them not being allowed in her and son's lives either. It didn't happen, so none of us have heard from her in 3 years.

[@sardonically-inclined7645]

It's why I think it's always a good idea to a have sceptical attitude towards dogmatism.

[@drakeloki4214]

Clearly the daughter is wrong but regardless didn't Jesus preach how the sins of the father don't reflect on the child. So what happened to that.

[@SilverMKI]

Says the religion of original sin 😅

[@RumbleDelta]

Nice to know Moira would’ve rather her mum possibly be DEAD than have an abortion.

[@rafertieslorekeeper5771]

The Story Update when the mother heard her daughter was there and ran to her really gave me, ironically for the religious theme of the story, 'Prodigal Son' vibes when the father ran to welcome his wayward son home. I'm thankful they god out of that situation and things seem good for them so far.

[@kieaunnahenton]

Story 1: Ummmm did she drop Moira on her head a few too many times? Dirk is a spineless D!ck and he has an unhealthy hold on that poor stupid girl’s mind. God said himself not to tempt him so it would have been stupid for her to keep that pregnancy when it would have either ended anyway or k!lled both her and the unborn. That girl needs to get her head together. He should have been honest from up front. Jeeze man. I’m glad it worked out but good grief.

[@Allmightyimortal]

Read the update. It at least explains, not excuses but explains, a few things.

[@kieaunnahenton]

@@Allmightyimortalyeah my bad, I’m glad it worked out but it’s just so irritating how some people just don’t think about others when they make choices like that. Like you wanted out but you let her spiral and didn’t even talk to her about things knowing she would take your word. It’s good he did the right thing finally tho.

[@damien678]

I'm still mad his solution to not conceiving yet was to have sex as much as possible, even when she wasn't in the mood. That's fucked up.

[@janetdeloach8522]

Story One, ab etopic pregnancy is life threatening. You could have died. Moira is acting like she is being brainwashed. Not your fault, this is a sad situation..Did she want you to die? She needs to go to therapy.. This was beyond your control, she is acting stupid ..I hope She finds her brain and independence from her husband..Do not feel guilty but Do not give up Hope...❤

[@mariapaz6379]

I feel like op should have shared her real thoughts with her daughter much sooner. op is a great person and an amazing mom, but it also seems like she doesn't really open up to her daughter that often and that their conversations are mostly superficial. Religious group are incredibly dangerous, they are really predatory, so the only way to help people is to cut them off from the start. Hope everything gets better from here

[@DaniS398]

So glad those two got out of the cult! Totally surprised by the twist that Dirk was the one who wanted out. He sounds like such a good dude.

[@WolfgangDoW]

Story 1: if you do not get an abortion with ectopic pregnancy, YOU WILL DIE! PERIOD! The daughter is saying she would rather her mum died when she was 6yo than live and be an amazing mum

[@brunodorval1131]

As much as I respect everyone beliefs, I hate when those go beyond healthy & try to implants false narratives in the mind of vulnerables. As far as I'm concern, the glorious facade pastor (or names they presents themselves), the most I question their real & manipulatives motives

[@SilverMKI]

Not all beliefs deserve respect.

[@ninirossau2304]

a happy ending even if it made me cry. after all the pain she didnt just get her daughter back, she got a son. I am not fond of religion, being told what I can and cant do rubs me the wrong way. when religion is supportive and loving it is great but when it turns bigoted and controlling, it really shows the bad side.

[@mikaq19]

Story 1. Ops daughter has been radicalized.

[@D123-f9k]

It always turns my stomach when people simply call these cults “evangelical”

[@gnomishdelights6851]

If she's so religious she should know that the sins of the father don't go onto the son ( or daughter). She should actually read the Bible before hoping on the crazy train. All she did was succeed in isolating herself in an abusive relationship.

[@nikkid7838]

When my daughter was 6 she announced to me that she knew where babies come from (me with a pikachu face) our conversation Me: really? Where honey do they come from. (Not going to lie I was scared of what she was going to say) Her: well mummy you know that God makes babies? Me: yes honey that’s true Her: well when God is done he gives them to the angels to put them in mummy’s tummy Me with a huge sigh of relief. She knew I had a miscarriage prior that year She continued: sometimes the baby gets sick and the angel has to take them back to God to get better. I was in tears 😭 at this moment

[@ComaLies225]

Your daughter is so precious lol

[@marie34K]

That's so wrong . Lying to a child is always wrong . No god didn't put a baby in your belly , your partner did . And a 6 year-old can absolutely know that daddy gave mummy a tiny seed that became a baby .And when they want to know more later on they'll ask questions .Why would a parent dread a question about how babies are made ? And if you are religious why do you lie ?

[@MargaritaOnTheRox]

​@@marie34KNot everyone sees it as a lie. Yes, your partner put his semen in you, but the vast majority of time, it doesn't result in a fetus, and way more often then people realize, it miscarries. Because there's so many people on Earth, and so many babies being born, people don't realize what a miracle each child is.

[@SilverMKI]

​@@marie34K100% agree. Children need to be knowledgeable about about these things in an age appropriate way, not lied to.

[@nikkid7838]

@@marie34K wow just wow! To explain that to a 6 year old. Should I have told her Santa isn’t real as well?? No honey there isn’t an Easter bunny or tooth fairy! Oh btw the Elf on the Shelf is just me having fun with you?? She was SIX years old. So NO we didn’t have the birds and bees talk with her. So yup I lied to help her keep her innocence a little bit longer. Also answer your last question she has grown up going to Catholic schools. Once she asked me when she was 4 just randomly while driving in the car “mummy what did Mary make?” I was confused as to Mary who?She described “Mary Jesus’ mummy. Since God made the trees, birds, and everything else around us … what did Mary make.” I told her she made Jesus and raised him to become the man we read about in the bible. My guess that’s where she came up with the angels also putting babies in other mummies tummies. She has grown to be a very lovely mature woman and is currently in university working on a degrees in history. So guess no lasting damage to me lying to her.

[@PredictedCyborg]

I somehow don't think the road ahead is going to be super smooth, but god I HOPE that this family has a happy ending eventually. Even if the marriage between Moira and Dirk breaks down later, I hope that they can stay close regardless. I just... want them to be happy. Argh!

[@kp2223]

I love how perspective changes everything.

[@melissaharris3890]

Even if most ectopic pregnancies did migrate(impossible), it was admitted that not all do.

[@jessicah3782]

It looks like OP and Moira might be Dirk's lifeline out of that culty mess. i can already tell by his character that he makes a great husband and Moira was just young and vulnerable when she got caught up in that world.

[@RoxanneSharbono-mb8ol]

At least she didn't kill her a baby. Story 1. It sad her baby died but ectopic pregnancies don't count as abortions morally. Moira needs to study her theology she is off.

[@lizfritz6546]

Holy shit that story made me cry. Cults are more common than people realize and are so fricking insidious.

[@KB-tg7pf]

Wow, that story had me in TEARS! I grew up in a cult, and my worst fear would be for my kids to join one. My heart was tied up in knots for that mother, and when her daughter came back, I started sobbing!!

[@ashassassin]

Thank God they got out and together! I am so happy to hear dirk wasn't the man in the og post. I'm glad he got Moira out of there and knew enough about op to trust her to help them. This ended much more wholesomely than I thought it would.

[@autumn557]

See this is literally the problem with thinking you have a say in woman’s lives and vaginas. She literally HAD to remove the fetus and is still being blamed for a necessary procedure. And why? WHY CARE Also it’s sinful for women to be single? Get bent. And look how terrible her husband is. Annoyed about everything? Yeah. That sure is an example of a life I’d just LOVE to have. A, small minded community and told no matter what I do I’m a sinner. Isolating someone from their loving mother. Sign me right up. /s

[@randomusername3873]

Because women making their own choices? Are you serious? We can't have that

[@Passions5555]

The husband redeemed himself though.

[@damien678]

​@@Passions5555 He still forced Moira to have sex when she wasn't in the mood because he didn't want them going to a doctor about why conception wasn't happening.

[@troubleinthevalley5884]

I'm so happy the story ended the way it did now I'm crying LOL

[@necilya]

I think that they need to divorce or separate for now if divorce is not an option. This young man actually needs space so he can find himself. Now is not the time for him to create a family. He is young and is still searching for his own identity.

[@TheMimiSard]

I feel like it is a nice thing to hear that maybe Moira (and Dirk) is heading in a gentler direction without totally turning on religion all together. I am the sort of religious person who believes, but does not actively attend church, so my quiet belief finds a turn like that to be encouraging. I hope OP's more liberal church does them good.