Marriage Ultimatums & Emotional Manipulation - SimplyPodLogical

On this episode of SimplyPodLogical, Cristine and Ben discuss the Netflix series "The Ultimatum" where one partner in a couple issues an ultimatum to get married or break-up. We consider the rationale behind marriage, emotional manipulation, social influences, and our own view on marriage.
0:00 - Hey what’s up holo everyone
1:00 - Let’s talk about Netflix's "The Ultimatum"
6:02 - Experimental 3-week stranger before marriage
7:46 - Who is issuing a marriage ultimatum?
10:50 - Not financially ready for marriage
12:50 - Why won’t Ben propose?
17:01 - Young people getting married
19:48 - Why do people get married?
24:48 - Ben sometimes calls Cristine his “wife”
26:39 - Evolution of the term “my partner”
32:40 - Emotional manipulation to get marriage
38:20 - The rules of engagement
41:10 - Women shaming other women for “giving up” on marriage
42:58 - Commitment without marriage?!
44:57 - “Why hasn’t Ben proposed yet?!”
47:51 - The origin of marriage
52:56 - What if marriage was deinstitutionalized?
58:20 - Profiting off the desire to be loved
1:02:51 - The Ultimatum: Hummus Edition
1:04:45 - The SimplyPodLogical season finale
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[@Ezencee]

In Norway we have a word that's inbetween "girlfriend" and "wife", it's "samboer" which means romantic partner you live with. It's a category on every government document/form

[@maitebisch5098]

In France/Belgium we have few different status for a couple regarding government docs : pacs and cohabitant légal/legal cohabitant (equivalent of marriage for taxes), vie maritale (married life, without any paperwork or ceremony) And most of the time we say compagne/compagnon/partenaire which would translate to companion/partner

[@Cameratanuit]

Yeah in Canada it's common-law!

[@screemingslay5415]

In the Philippines, we just basically call them as live-in partner (yes, it's in English) or ka-live-in partner/ka-live-in.

[@maitebisch5098]

@@ha_des oui mais je pense que vie maritale c'est l'ancienne version du terme. Mes parents avaient ce statut jusqu'à ce qu'ils se marient donc dans les années 80-90-00. Yes I agree, but I think "married life" is the old school term. My parents got this status until they got married, so it was in the 80-90-00s. I also forgot the term "conjoint(e)" which is the same as partner.

[@billyjean3118]

We have jt in Poland, konkubina, but because of various social reasons it’s always used to describe a terrible crime, like “the konkubina murdered him with an axe over a bowl of chicken soup” lol

[@MoMo-vj8ch]

The irony is that Ben and Cris, who are not getting married ever, have thought through marriage/a long-lasting relationship A LOT MORE than any of these reality show couples. Any time I watch Love is Blind or the Ultimatum, all I can think is that NONE of these people are mature enough or ready for marriage.

[@linn8370]

Literally! Everytime i see these type of shows i always think why don't they just talk to eachother?

[@sleepyyam5391]

reality shows select for people who don't really think about or have a disregard for long term consequences/impact, It's not really irony

[@AllTheArtsy]

People who dont want to get married have thought through marriage than those who do. People who dont want to have children have thought through pregancy, birth, child rearing and parenting than those who do. That is the natural consequence of going against mindless automatic societal scripts. Ironically, those that dont would probably have the best marriages or be the best parents, precisely because of this self-awareness, critical thinking and consideration.

[@alaube9212]

The fact that they are both life partners and business partners meaning both interpretations work in most contexts makes all the examples way funnier

[@sapphicnecromancer]

I'm a lesbian in the US. My wife and I only got married because in the US there's tons of Christian hospitals and if one of use was (Gods forbid) hospitalized, they could deny us from seeing each other on the basis of religion. With being legally married, they cannot do that to us.

[@alaskayoung1988]

Discrimination is such a nightmare, the fact that there's people who can't be there with their SO in a life or death situation is so evil

[@gummy5862]

@@alaskayoung1988 Yea like during the whole Covid thing

[@MathPiHanan]

I agree with Ben, we need a term to demonstrate a committed relationship that isn’t necessarily husband/wife. Something between husband/wife and boyfriend/girlfriend

[@Le_Cube]

I’ve started using partner. Saying my boyfriend, after being together 12 years, seems so ridiculous to me and awkward as well. But I agree we need something else. 😅

[@fleurhufflepuff2198]

I agree that we should have an equally serious term. Something in between kinda just perpetuates the idea that marriage is still the most serious and committed one can be. We need a equally serious term maybe neutral to be used both for those who are married and those who are not, that isn't abt the paper work of their relationship (cuz tbf it ain't nobody else's business), but abt the seriousness of it. Idk.

[@billyjean3118]

I somewhat agree and somewhat disagree, we can just keep using girlfriend boyfriend partner and get the world used to the idea that it doesn’t mean it’s not serious.

[@NoobGamer-hn5rs]

i use Bubby.... it means not yet husband but past boyfriend XD... i also tend to use it as his nickname too lol.... he doesnt mind it either.....

[@tamrissa]

i refer to my partner as hub, not far off from hun, not exactly husband as hes not lol but my hub. also hub - core center heart focus lol it works!

[@mobuckey]

I'm not married and I LOVE using "partner" for my boo of almost 10 years. I like the ambiguity of relationship, sexuality, business, and crime potential. It's no one's business knowing what we're up to 😈

[@oliwri]

Love it

[@elliottg4463]

Im from New Zealand and its super common for people to call their longterm girlfriend/boyfriend or spouse their partner. Its also common in Australia.

[@Shaved_Bunny]

such rebel, ty for the info!

[@kelsea6591]

Read this comment to my partner of over 10 years and had a chuckle , we are totally the same way, it’s a great all inclusive term and I feel like it throws the nosy Nancy’s for a loop 😹

[@kayenjee]

Adorable

[@ryannschultz3277]

I relate heavily to Ben, my boyfriend and I call each other husband and wife in the context that it’s easier and to hold more weight lol

[@eZeebreeZe]

My brother in law has been with his now fiancé for YEARS and has referred to her as his wife for as long as I can remember because in his mind they were always committed and just as much his wife as any definition could

[@iamtigr3sa]

My ex and I did the same, changed the term depending on the context. Worked well!

[@PinkKoalas]

That’s what I say!!

[@RebeccaMundschenk]

So do we.

[@KatjeKat86]

@@eZeebreeZe I must admit I understand Cristine's and Ben's Common law marriage more than I do people who get engaged and then never get married is that another way of basically trying to have the Commonwealth marriage without any of the perks of it? Cause in my mind if you choose to get engaged you believe in marriage so why don't you just get married? I mean even if you're religious it doesn't involve that much to have a church wedding if you don't care about the Bells and whistles part. Sorry, I know this is not what you're but it's statement was in reference too but it just made me think about it.

[@maribelcarrillo]

I can't believe you literally used what happened to me as an example! I was helping my boyfriend of seven years with the purchase and furnishing of an apartment, and when I said I'm the girlfriend no one took me seriously. I'm sure they thought "why should I listen to this chick the owner is casually dating". The first time I told one of the workers "my husband will not be happy about this" I immediately felt they took me more seriously and started asking more about the details and listened to me more. It suuuuuucks!

[@sosewnknits]

I also had a Sociology professor that would refer to his family members as his “partner” and his “child” and wow did it drive people crazy! It was always a conversation we had about why people felt they needed to know the genders of his family members. This was also about 15 years ago lol.

[@tianna1116]

Seeing as it was a sociology prof I can see it 😂 depending on his personality type, maybe it was something he found kinda funny… or some weird personality thing. But maybe more like a loose experiment on his students over the years

[@julia8523]

Podcast hit me hard this week as someone dealing with an ultimatum in an 8 year relationship with my PARTNER lol. IMHO being given an ultimatum on having children is drastically different for genders. One person has to (usually) carry the child and deal with their body and mind changing before during and after pregnancy (not to mention the risks associated) while the other does not..

[@Jillberto]

dont feel pressured into having children. If someone isnt ready, they're not ready and shouldnt have children.

[@Crooked._.Crafts]

I agree and don't think thats fair at all. If the uterus-having-person really doesn't want to be pregnant the should never be pressured to. The other person should be more open to options like adoption, etc. Good luck!

[@WYIN98]

Omg i hate this! I'm at that point in my life where my parents keep pushing the baby narrative and sometimes my partner does it and I'm like hell no, my body is the one changing, it won't ever be the same if I decide to get pregnant, it's not that easy to just put that pressure on someone and then thinking we are selfish because we don't want to change our entire lives for a baby like wtf?!

[@julia8523]

@Mar V for my birthday this year, my mom asked me when she's getting grandbabies.. and my grandma asked when we are getting married 😮‍💨 makes me want it even less the more people ask..safe to say that I told my partner we should go separate ways if having a biological child is that important to them. I've always been open to adoption/fostering as there are many children who need help and families that are already in this world.

[@WYIN98]

@@julia8523 since i was a child I've always told my parents I didn't want children and every time i was in a relationship i made it clear i didn't want any children. It hasn't been a secrete to anyone you know? I don't know why they keep bringing up the topic knowing my decision has been set from the beginning 😔

[@purrrpleunicorn]

It actually sounds so weird hearing Ben call Cristine his “wife”. 😂

[@kittyscreativecorner]

“Ten years ago in grad school-“ “Were we dating then?” “This isn’t about you!”🤣

[@CreativeWriter19]

I grew up in the Midwest US in a very liberal, not strict household and moved to the South about 4 years ago. The amount of friends and coworkers I've met down here whose parents won't let them live with not only a romantic partner, but anyone of the opposite sex regardless of relationship status, is astounding. All of these people have been 22 years old and older. And it is just insane to me that their parents want to control their adult children that much, but also that these fully grown, legal adults are going along with their parents controlling them in that way. Maybe it's because I didn't grow up in an environment where those restrictions are normalized, either for me or for the peers I grew up with, but it seems extremely detrimental to their relationships and development as people. I'd say the "worst" (for lack of a better word) example of this in my life right now is my 28 year old coworker can't live with her boyfriend because his parents don't want him living with his girlfriend. I don't know how old the boyfriend is, but this woman is 28, going to be 29 this year. At that age, you should be allowed to live with a romantic partner without judgement. Like, come on.

[@frickinfrick8488]

I know this has been said many times, but I really appreciate Cris and Ben talking about their decision to not get married and have kids. It helps me feel much more comfortable going the same route. As a woman I’ve been told “it’ll change, one day you’ll be baby crazy and want a lavish wedding like all women do” and it drives me crazy. The societal pressure to take that path is huge. Seeing an example that a healthy committed relationship doesn’t require those things is very comforting.

[@kendrastevenson5423]

No need to feel beholden to a season structure. You can set yourselves a schedule without that. Whether it’s hey, no podcast next week, or hey in July we’re taking a month off. You could have a set week off a month, you could prefilm and take whatever off. Tons of options, just make sure you do take a break 🥰

[@RodneyAndMeVideos]

Yeah it's all good!

[@zinc8002]

I say this too, we are here for you ben and cristine and you can just do whatever you need. if you upload we'll be here, if you don't that's fine too.

[@leanneh7734]

Yes!

[@IvyK44]

You could say ' life partner ' but I agree sometimes it's kind of awkward to express that it's a very legit committed stable relationship

[@johndododoe1411]

The phrasing in English most easily recognized as a common law spouse is to simply say "my man" or "my woman", as longer phrases are used for less committed relationships like a trusted servant or trusted second in command. Meanwhile the simple "my man" is ambiguous if the marriage is official or just emotional/practical.

[@mygirl737g2]

my partner and I say, "Emotional Support Human"

[@LadyShiver]

I really recognize that feeling Cristine has about not caring but actually caring in the opposite way. I feel the same about a lot of women in society related topics. For me it's the injustice of inequality that kinda lays at the root of it all.

[@IvyK44]

I once read something online ' when people ask if you will be next at weddings, start doing the same at funerals '

[@sweissara932]

Hahaha that's very morbidly hilarious

[@bbshrimp]

pausing to chip on the point of Ben sometimes calling Cris his wife because it was easier or made the seriousness of their relationship more clear in some situations. my parents are boomer aged, have been together since the 70s, and are unmarried. my mum has talked about calling my dad "husband" in certain situations to avoid confusion or to avoid people treating her worse because she was in a longtime relationship and unwed. it must have been frustrating and honestly enraging at times over the decades to have people dismissing her and her relationship because they didn't have some signed document. it just reminds me how freaking stupid it is that there's so much pressure around marriage, and assumptions around married vs unmarried, that even longtime partners can have these awkward or negative situations due of the technicality of not being married. anyways... also shout out to my parents for putting literally zero pressure on me to get married since they both knew it wasn't a necessity lol

[@jackroyston3263]

So beautiful to watch, my relationship of 5 years ended a month ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, I really love her so much I can’t stop thinking about her, I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her.

[@cupcakemazelee]

It's always difficult to let go of someone you love, i was in a similar situation when my wife of 12 years left me, i couldn't just let her go. I did all I could to get her back, I had to seek the help of a spiritual adviser who helped me bring her back.

[@jackroyston3263]

@@cupcakemazelee Wow, how did you get a spiritual adviser, and how do i reach her?

[@cupcakemazelee]

@@jackroyston3263 her name is MONICA ERLENE MORA, and she is a great spiritual adviser as well as a caster and healer

[@jackroyston3263]

@@cupcakemazelee Thank you for this valuable information, I just looked her up online. impressive.

[@trishasurangana2278]

Was betrayal or breach of trust involved on either end? If long term relationships fail it's usually cuz of that idk

[@Sara-without-the-h]

24:48 - I can COMPLETELY agree with how Ben feels about the “girlfriend” “boyfriend” terminology…as a female in a 12 year relationship I sometimes refer to my boyfriend as my “husband” in conversation because society and out of date norms has made me almost feel like our relationship isn’t serious or valid (which I know it obviously is of course) tough to describe but I’m so glad I’m not the only one who’s felt that way using the term “husband” over “boyfriend”….side note we have no interest in marriage and have been together steady for 12 years with no need for a big party or rings! :)

[@Dezwyler]

I also use 'partner' to be vague - as a bisexual, it adds an extra element of keeping some people guessing! It's also great for relationships with people that identify as non-binary. It's a great word!

[@trishlehecka1199]

Jenna and Julien referred to each other as their person. I love that. It feels more meaningful than partner.

[@tianna1116]

But they’re married and now they say wife and husband

[@taralynn3868]

One thing a friend and I have discussed lately, as unmarried women in our mid-30s, is it seems you get taken more seriously or as more of an “adult” in the workplace or business settings if you appear married. Maybe it’s because we live in the Midwest, but we both tend to be viewed as younger and less experienced in our roles since we don’t wear wedding rings. I have considered purchasing a nice ring for myself to wear at work to appear like I’m not straight out of college, since I am often mistaken for an early 20-something, which is fine until I want to be considered the leader or in charge (which I am!)

[@thenopedetective]

Yes, completely agree with this! Even just switching from being single to referring to a (romantic, live in) partner I was treated more “adult”. It’s really unfortunate, but I think a lot of people still see kids and a spouse as markers of maturity. ETA: I’m early 30s but new to my field, and I do look my age.

[@KacieRiley]

The end of this podcast made me realize that Beynn has the same personality as a cat and that’s maybe a reason why simply loves him so much 😂🥰

[@nanonyme5944]

One minute in and i'm amazed by how much mastery Ben has over the verb "fromage" in french.

[@claudiaarbona9984]

isn’t it a noun meaning cheese? 😂

[@kmye]

@@claudiaarbona9984 it is! It's a noun, not a verb

[@sunnymcgie]

Ah yes my favourite French verb: to cheese

[@DawnOfTheCrazy]

@@sunnymcgie omg lol

[@nanonyme5944]

@@claudiaarbona9984 it is ahah, but Ben actually conjugated it properly, even tho it's a noun (the way he finished it with the different pronouns would be correct if it was a verb)

[@RoKer13]

Hi I’m a therapist and if you have very differing values about your future… y’all shouldn’t be together. Say bye and find someone else 😂 Compromise doesn’t equal sacrificing things that are important to you.

[@sydneyfritz802]

That was the same thing my mom always said!

[@ivamanral989]

I needed to hear this today. Thankyou random therapist

[@justiina_cat]

I skipped the if and thought this was aimed at cris and ben 😅

[@gabrielledonn4098]

This !!!!!!!

[@briemme]

I enjoy listening to the way Cristine thinks and love listening to her analyze social norms. Really like this kind of ep!

[@kaylee_kiwi20]

I think it's a fascinating take considering that people of color and queer people had to fight for the right to be married and view this conversation and marriage entirely completely differently. (In the north American context)

[@peurxzz]

As a person who absolutely loves the podcast, I don't think you should be forced to film every week. It would be great to have an episode every few weeks or even less often, but about the topic you feel really interested in and that you enjoy filming. This episode was great, I could really feel that Cristine was invested 😂 and even though we all love the AITA series or would enjoy the tea being spilled over some drama, we know you wouldn't want to film it just to have an episode to upload. PS. Love from Poland, I think you should visit some time, just for the meme of going up polish mountain 🗻

[@RodneyAndMeVideos]

Omg Polish mountain 😭 i love it

[@Debboh]

I agree v much with this!

[@HannahTyson]

“He’s probably a scum bag” I SCREAMED 💀

[@ki4099]

I’m pretty young, I’m 21 and my partner is 20. He proposed to me on my 20th birthday in 2021. (We wanted to be married, we talked about this). We finally started to plan the wedding now since we’ve been engaged for so long. But we both decided to ditch the huge wedding gathering due to money. Instead we’re getting court house married and spending our money on a trip to Hawaii for 2 weeks to just get away from it all. We both hate big gatherings and we just want to pool our funds because we want to get out of our crappy apartment and find a home to put a down payment on. The average price for a whole big wedding party is $30,000 in my area. Which is an absurd amount that we cannot afford. I’m content with the idea we came up with, I would rather spend money on a trip than spend money on other people watching me the whole night. It makes me uncomfortable.

[@shellyt556]

That is awesome! Like the idea

[@milomoon3856]

I did something similar for the same reasons! ❤ it definitely disappointed my family, but was worth it. A vacation and saving up for a house is way more important to me than 1 night that takes months of planning and stressing 😂

[@ki4099]

@@milomoon3856 Exactly! I’m lucky to have parents who support that decision but my fiancé’s side of the family seems to be a bit more dissatisfied about it. But we decided that what they think doesn’t matter to us. It’s our choice at the end of the day

[@ae-holo5972]

I did something similar when I got married. During that time the recession hit 2008 and hubby and I decided to cancel the party venue and get a refund and instead put it down on a starter home. Our reception was 15 people and homemade food. By far the best decision we made. Now we have a home 🏡

[@ki4099]

@@ae-holo5972 Sounds so relaxing and fun! That was an idea my fiancé and I were thinking about as well for our wedding.

[@mrshmllw12]

In Poland I hear the term "niemąż" that literally means "nothusband" more and more and I think it's hilarious 😆 For me it implies that if we wanted he would be my husband by now but that is not our goal. So he is a nothusband 😆

[@_bebeboudeur_]

it reminds me of the tv The Good Place with the robot saying "not a girl" :')

[@ramotnik8061]

I relate with Ben about the phrasing around partner etc. I usually say partner and it does confuse ppl. They usually asume that relationship is not romantic. Boyfriend is juvenile. And i also sometimes say husband to give a stranger a better context. Similarly, I call my stepmum a mum to simplify things.

[@RodneyAndMeVideos]

I feel like the stepmum/mum comparison is really helpful for anyone confused about this concept. I like it. Provides commonly understood context for who this person is in your life

[@lauramaciel5546]

Cristine is such a workaholic that she chose the shortest month to take a break lol 💖 Happy Taco Tuesday 🤠

[@KZesty]

I am happily married, and I agree the terms "girlfriend" and "boyfriend" sound almost silly some times. When I upgraded to fiancee I was like, ooh this is fancy!

[@alexandralab5364]

You’re by far the most interesting and mature couple on the Internet, please continue to greet us with your opinions and knowledge ❤ (ps you should come on holiday to Greece!)

[@straberryshinigami15g97]

also Jenna and Julien but theyre not both on the internet :)

[@milomoon3856]

It’s healing to hear someone else with the same thoughts on marriage. I recently got eloped to make sure we’re each others #1’s in the eyes of the government. Most of my family still doesn’t know and I don’t think it’s important to my identity. my friends didn’t understand my decision either. I respect rejecting the social norm.

[@jaygreene2257]

24:00 I think it’s important to recognize that Ben also has feelings about using the term “partner”, it’s just that he chooses to frame caring about other people’s reaction to the term partner vs girlfriend vs wife as “not caring” while Cristine’s frustrations at the rigidness of terminology like “wife” are framed by Ben as feelings. Y’all both have feelings, but Ben claims his are logical and Cristine’s are emotional.

[@rocketqueen8258]

The idea that Henry VIII having 8 wives at once is a hilarious adaptation to history 😂

[@donesk3y]

6 wives... and they were NOT all at once. He split the catholic church and created protestantism and the concept of divorce.

[@rocketqueen8258]

@Em Knows Best Yeah exactly why I thought Ben's comment that he had 8 wives at once is hilarious! Yeah he become the head of the church of England to allow divorce to divorce Catherine of Aragon and marry Anne Boleyn who he later had beheaded

[@aceitunaredfields]

Hello from México:) we got married as a gift to our parents, I’m the first to marry, he was the last of his family, so we decided to do everything with them and to both our parents liking, it was their wedding, they still remember that day quite fondly, it’s been 10 years, and we’re happy we did it for them.

[@tiffanyescamillaaa]

Hola buenos días rojita tu no necesita todo tu familia yo intento para la cultura es todo para la familia pero to felizmente es más importante para tu familia pero es tu feliz para tu amor es todo bien (yo también mexicana :)!!

[@bakuninsocio]

What i get from this podcast is that what Cris really cares about is to not normalize the terms and to always have a critical aproach to life. She really thinks like a sociologist, and as one myself it can be a strugle somethimes. It is important to reflect about the sociaty and how much of ours lives come from, but without leting it go to "evryting is a social construct and nothing is real". The balance is the strugle. I like Simply aproch.

[@julia8523]

Happy first Taco Tuesday of February Holo Fam 🌮🩷

[@lolchabs]

yessss my favourite genre of podlogical is intellectual and thoughtful takes on trash tv. i love these episodes so much lmao

[@abbys9934]

I think this might be my favorite podcast so far! AITA and similar episodes are always fun but listening to you both deep dive in to a topic that you clearly understand deeply and have strong opinions on is wonderful! You're both very intelligent and make your arguments so clearly. I really appreciated this whole discussion. Edit because I realized that might sound wrong... I don't mean to imply that you haven't done deeper episodes like this before. You have and they were great as well. This one is just my favorite so far lol Also, enjoy your break!!

[@sierralizotte3084]

100% agree, I love their deep dives into a topic and discuss their point of view and see each other's thoughts going back and forth even if they might disagree or come from a different angle. They are so real, I think some people tip toe on these types of discussions, but Cris and Ben just say their piece respectfully. Love that

[@brittanyelisha]

I have absolutely called my partner my husband, my partner, my significant other, and have often joked that we're Quebec married. I very much understand where Ben's coming from with not wanting his language to come across as minimizing, because I have similar feelings. When I call my partner "boyfriend" it almost feels reductionist, and like it's erasing all we've been through.

[@Zubbum1]

Interesting discussion about labels like "girlfriend" vs "partner" vs "wife". Slightly different, but sometimes when I'm telling stories about my best friend (who I've known since I was 5) or her little sister (who I've known since she was born) ill refer to them as my sister/little sister. Just because it's conveys are relationship better, and best friend can mean something different to so many people. I guess "sister" can too, but it does feel like people take that relationship more seriously.

[@fleurhufflepuff2198]

Honestly! I'm in my late 20s and my best friend is someone I've know since we were babies, we got really close in our early teens and when I need to refer to him as "a friend" is just not it! He's so much more than "a friend". Like, a friend can be almost anyone (not for me, but ppl would interpret "friend" as literally anyone you know) . But also saying "best friend" as a almost 30 y/o sounds kinda silly and childish. Idk.

[@imshooketh1500]

yeah, I also use a sister for my childhood friend

[@marquis101]

As someone who is in the middle of a divorce. My eyes have been opened, and I would much rather just love and be with someone and choose them everyday without having a legal binding contract. Will never make that mistake again.

[@cissnajs]

Thoughts on the girl/boyfriend label: I think the first and foremost thing is because the words boy and girl are in the words. They are inherently juvenile and "demeaning?" Almost? I also call my husband a variety of different things depending on the situation and what is called for. Husband, spouse, partner, or significant other. We are married for logical reasons on my side, social reasons on his side, and ... Tbh, I wanted a pretty dress 😂. But all of those words correctly define who he is to me and are interchangeable unless I have to say husband bc of legal reasons. (I also called him my husband before we got married if I needed to sometimes)

[@MoMo-vj8ch]

Ben's point on how people should have to explain the affirmative and not the other way around (have to explain why not or the negative) is so key. Marriage and kids are big changes, YOU should be able to explain why you want them in a concrete way, not some shoulder shurg of "that's what people do." The ones not making these choices are not the ones making HUGE changes. Why should they have to have some big answer?

[@mbsanubari]

I recently got engaged and also found out more about the history/tradition of the engagement ring. It was actually something given to the bride to be something specifically for her in the “deal” of a marriage like as a token of respect for her almost against the dowry if that makes sense

[@margarethansen7490]

That’s so interesting

[@ninaasf-ck]

Yeah, pre-alimony being a thing, the ring was her insurance so she wouldn't be completely destitute if the guy divorced/left her.

[@ivamanral989]

In my country both get the ring lmao

[@bobbiecollins6734]

i think you could go for the worlds longest engagement and "propose" and just call each other your fiancé, bc to me thats considered a serious partner while also not being married, however i do like that they dont really care about the status

[@milla4898]

I know a couple like this! Both in their 60s, together for nearly 20 years and “engaged” for 10+ years of that time.

[@lineyloveslacquer]

Wow season 1 was a lengthy one😂Can’t wait for season 2!

[@missrobinhoodie]

As a 30yo divorced woman who used to be religious and got married at age 25 - I really enjoyed this podcast episode and mostly agree with you! Not sure if I ever want to get married again… Also got lowkey scared Ben is gonna propose on the podcast 😂 phew. That would‘ve been awkward!

[@mai5394]

It's funny Ben mentioned Michael being secretly a scumbag, here in Argentina we have our suspicions it's true because of the way he sometimes treats her wife (Luisana Lopilato, a famous local actress) on lives and stuff. He seems violent but haven't actually caught him yet 😐

[@SailorCSH]

Re: romance and marriages, I actually think common law partnerships are more romantic than a marriage because you’re not bound together by legal or social obligations, but instead every day you spend together, you’re making the choice to stay together out of love. That’s just my perspective as someone aroace with no interest in ever getting married or to even be in a romantic relationship lol. I really appreciate Cristine’s candor and firmness whenever the topic of marriage is brought up.

[@thenopedetective]

Yes, her passion about this is pretty great to see! And so agree about common law. Part of me is still drawn to marriage due to the social expectations around it. But, I’m really trying to deconstruct these thoughts. These podcasts are really helpful for that. (My partner is luckily in the exact same spot where he resents the social expectation of it but also likes the idea of having that extra label. Legal support isn’t so relevant as we’re childfree and common law.)

[@gabrielledonn4098]

@@thenopedetective but also if a place doesn’t have common law. And if something happens legally you aren’t seen as a partner or nothing. And vice versa. So that is a drawback.

[@amandaclark4875]

Thank you for talking about this topic. I married at 22 and divorced at 24. I remember not wanting to pick a date after we were engaged just because I thought we should have waited. And I was right! I guess I was emotionally manipulated to get married before I was ready. But I never thought about it that way before now, so thank you!

[@galix_c]

I think setting clear expectations once a relationship becomes serious is so important. Having a convo about marriage and kids and a rough timeline and revisiting those topics every now and then is healthy. Communicating with your partner will usually clear up any “issues” before they become issues. That’s my take on it! Also, enjoy your much needed break you two!! I’ll be here when you get back ❤

[@user-qr5yb3dl1n]

"i'm agnostic to marriage" is PERFECT

[@xgreydovex]

HOW DARE YOU ABANDON US IN OUR TIME OF NEED?! jkjk. Enjoy your break! I vote that for a belated Valentines episode you guys do a AITA - engagement/marriage edition. I really like hearing y’all’s thoughts on stuff like this.

[@alexabilokraly6747]

THANK YOU FOR THIS EPISDODE. I have been told I am naive for not making my bf marry me. People say that he doesn't want to commit even though it's been 8 years. We are Common Law in Canada. I tell people that we can't afford a big wedding right now, and then they say "oh you don't need a big wedding" but then also if you don't have a big wedding, you're settling and he should want to spend a billion dollars on you. When you talk to certain people, you just can't please them no matter what you say. Even though, neither of us have ever straight up said we are NOT getting married. We don't know yet. If it happens it happens. He knows I wouldn't say no if he proposed. I also know he's not leaving. We're happy where we are right now and that should be what matters.

[@amanda.w.6082]

My two friends never wanted to get married, both of them ended up with caner and the doctors wouldn't release information to them because of legal reasons. They decided to get married and celebrate beating cancer, but the main reason was in case they got sick again, they didn't want to end up in the same situation. I guess they saw marriage as more of a legal document.

[@alyssia777]

Ben: I call you my wife out of convenience, I don't want to deal with follow up questions and ambiguity etc. Cristine: I revel in the confusion :D

[@l3afman]

Proposals can be pre-discussed/planned and be a surprise still! So glad that this was mentioned. My long-term partner and I have talked about this at length, to the point where we've agreed who's going to propose (me!!) and when (within a specified period of time). It'll still be a surprise, but the anxiety-inducing unknowns are eliminated and we're both on the same page about it

[@julia8523]

I am sad to hear that this will be the first and last podcast of February but I am also happy that you are being responsible and taking time off to recharge and focus on other priorities in the meantime. Holo fam will be here waiting for you to return! ❤🩷🧡💛💚💙🩵💜🤎🖤🩶🤍

[@Daffolyn]

For the partner term discussion, I heard people say "SO", stands for "significant other". I like using it but in my language we don't have a term like that so sometimes I just say 'my husband' (Mijn man) (same as 'my man') xp

[@fleurhufflepuff2198]

Guys I was abt to eat lunch and couldn't find anything to watch, it was like "where is the podcast?! 😭 Ben and Cristine having a chat is exactly what I need rn" lmao. I'm genuinely grateful! Ps. Someone posted a nail art inspired by Taylor swift's "lavander haze" on tiktok using holo taco. I thought been would appreciated that hahaha. Guys yall just made my day. Honestly. Thank you for making this podcast. I've been watching since day one. I love it! Edit: just got to the end of the podcast. I totally support the break and yall just doing it (or whatever else) as long as you want and like it. I'll miss it very much tho. I remember watching the main channel videos and living for the few short cuts of yall just having interesting debates and discussions and stuff, so the podcast was just everything I've ever wanted of yall. A just chill hour long conversation and analyses of random things serious or not. I just love it. I appreciate every episode so far and I'll miss it very much. But honestly it is great cuz yall want to do it, breaks are healthy and needed, I support that. And I also support if yall decide to stop doing it eventually if yall don't feel like it anymore. Anyway. This was a rant. I just mean, I love the podcast, I'll miss it very much, but most of all I support you guys and I'll be here if or whenever you come back. Honestly, thank you. 💕

[@belindarocky961]

I'm childfree, atheist, & unmarried. A trifecta, lol. Society definitely has an expectation that marriage & children are boxes to be checked ✅️ & you're somehow lacking if you don't choose that path.

[@dansbury]

My common-law partner and I have 2 kids and one on the way. Zero plans to get married. I just use "partner" everywhere, very little confusion. Have had a couple times people think I meant a lesbian partner, even recently, i think that's more about the fact that I am a bi woman who doesn't always fit norms (often have blue hair etc). Doesn't bother me, but does happen occasionally.

[@kimternestaal]

Welcome to my brain: Everytime Cristine said ”you gotta fight for your right” my inner demon screamed ”TO PAAAARTYYY” 😂

You get used to "partner". I also felt weirded out first when I changed from "boy/girlfriends" to "partner". I like it too bc it can be used of enbies as well. You don't have to specify anyone's gender, you don't need to feel juvenile, but you can still use a title that's understood in the world to mean exactly that, a romantic partner.

[@rbecca]

Ben: yeah you can find me Cristine: great plug

[@IvyK44]

I like the proposal videos when they both planned on proposing

[@jesseleboeuf2315]

I just finished my liberal arts undergrad last year, and I’m happy to report that almost all of my professors used the term “partner” for their significant others about…75% of the time. Men were more likely to use it interchangeably with wife or husband, but the vast majority of women always used partner

[@_officialmigs]

I do have to say "partner" seems to have gone a way more mainstream over the last 2-3 years. I find even married heterosexuals (not just non-married) use it quite regularly. Prior to this time, it was definitely more same-sex like Cristine said.

[@emacd520]

Thank you for everything!! See you guys back on the pod soon

[@rebeccamills16]

I am so excited that you are taking a break and not stopping.

[@SurprisedPikacheesecake]

This has to be my favorite podcast you've done so far. Wasn't expecting to get such a serious breakdown going into this- I know, i know- and anytime I get to see you guys handle a complex topic that could get heated fast and instead see you both remain respectful and hold space for each other is the biggest reason why I love these podcasts so dang much. Or at least what you chose to show, you could turn the cameras off and start rage chucking bottles of nail polish at each other lol but I'm 33 years old and single and look up to you guys in that regard. I'd rather stay single than be with someone I can have an opinion with. cheers to season 2!

[@Olivia-qi3cp]

Love it when you guys cover topics like this!! Your opinions are always so reasoned and well-articulated.

[@soy.evelino]

Just reached the end of the pod and I'll happily see you guys next season 💖 love the pods and I'll def be listening to the past episodes in the meanwhile 🌟

[@nopeninja8883]

Thank you both for this. You're great partners and have some fabu convos that im happy to listen in on.

[@simsoThe2nd]

Happy for you that you are taking the break! ♥

[@SarahUzelac]

Love and appreciate the thoughtful conversations and perspectives you bring up on the pod. Wishing you both a restful and rejuvenating break this month! Miss y’all already ❤

[@Kari_chadd]

Y'all have been doing this for almost 3 years. This has been one of my favorite episodes

[@froozion6347]

Enjoy your break! You guys deserve it. Excited to see you guys next month

[@miairnell4535]

glad you guys are looking after yourselves and taking a break, please be back though!!!! I really love this podcast, it's very insightful to hear your perspectives on random things.

[@luciamacedo2440]

i’ve watched those shows and i love the fact that u guys are talking about it. I always feel connected to your content

[@stern6068]

You guys going on a break gives me the opportunity to say thank you! When you started this podcast it coincided with the beginning of the pandemic. I felt very isolated and scared and your podcast was one of the things that made me laugh and also it gave the weeks structure! I love you guys. You're silly, deep, loving conversations make me come back every week. So I am very glad you take a well deserved break and i am looking forward to hearing you again. ❤

[@katie18976]

I had so stressful day at work today and I was so looking forward to your podcast to get my mind off work and just relax and eat my dinner. Thanks you guys, this is so helpful for my mental health, you do not know how much I wait for these podcasts every week. However I do understand that everyone needs a break at some point so I wish you a lovely break, enjoy, don't feel guilty, we love you and will be here when you are coming back 🤗❤️

[@Justthesky071]

Why is Ben’s intro how I sound in my French class 😭😭😭😭

[@cuteboulette]

To be honest that's not too bad haha

[@KaseyWithers]

These are my favorite conversations you guys have, just about your values and beliefs surrounding social constructs. I'm a lot like Cris, I love deconstructing things like this. Wonderful episode 💕

[@figlerem]

this show is so wild, I watched it over Christmas break and I couldn’t stop watching

[@charlottem2422]

Such a good episode! I think it’s really interesting how people (whether personally invested in the concept of marriage or not) talk about certain traditions, when many of them really haven’t been around as long as we might think (eg. “white dress” and a diamond ring). Leena Norms made a really good video about marriage that touched on this. Also I love Ben’s call back to the french conjugations 😆 I hope you both enjoy your break! 💜

[@jessejoyce]

Great podcast! Enjoy your break!

[@sarahelizabeth9554]

You guys should watch Mikey Atkins' "Therapist Reacts" videos on this show! I think she actually mentions you two as an example of a couple who can have a perfectly healthy, committed relationship without marriage.

[@Sal_draws]

My favorite notification is when there is a new episode on the podcast

[@ebbking9398]

Get the rest you need. I have watched every week since i originally found you after a huge head injury in 2015 and know you helped me through that. It has been a pleasure to watch you grow from the one channel to so many. Now It's been 35 days since my dad passed away unexpectedly and know you are now helping me through that. Please come back rested and happy, ready to spread more joy. Maybe I'll start trying to catch the lives to fill the gap of the podcast.

[@michaelamarquesrocha8069]

I had eye surgery last week and can assure: you can watch the live streams without looking I listened to so many vods with my eyes closed because my eyes were really sensitive to lights and still enjoyed them a lot

[@astidjewelball6885]

Really enjoyed this episode! I hope you enjoy your time off, just refresh and think about getting back. If you need a year or 5 or just a Month. You do you, thanks for Being amazing!

[@jackrussel999]

Won't be able to watch this right away but I'm reallll excited for this one!

[@nailartbyreka]

When Ben said "I could surprise the hell out of you!", I almost choked on my tea!