Marvel Music: The Thematic Continuity Issue

[@iSJS96]

The sequel to this video is up! kzbin.info/www/bejne/e36mcp1-fcysldE Enjoy!

[@iSJS96]

@@xshxr Same.

[@ethanslegend8094]

@@iSJS96 you should do a part 3

[@Renuclous]

The consistent Avengers theme was one of the major reasons why the first "Infinity War" trailer works so amazingly. It's just shiver inducing when at the end the avengers theme blasts extra slow and extra loud while the Avengers "A" appears on screen. Just amazing.

[@David-xn9mu]

Clever use of the two different Marvel Studios opening Fanfares to highlight the entire theme of the talk

[@chiefjeefe424]

The Iron man 3 theme is the best one imo. Captures the character perfectly

[@charlielove9140]

Recently, Thor Ragnarok came out and a new composer, Mark Mothersbaugh arrived. Interestingly, he didn't rewrite the Thor theme. He actually found a creative way to tie the two previous themes together. I think this could hint at the MCU improving its scores.

[@x6xbatman843]

Did anyone else get chills when he put the iron man 3 music over iron man 1

[@bonoreyes8233]

x6x batman same bro. Ive been complaining about the theme changes since forever. The themes are good! Stick with them

[@71775926]

I got chills when he put Ramin Djawadi's theme over the Iron Man 2 scene. This video's the reason why that theme now sticks in my head when I think: "Iron Man Theme".

[@Ultrasonix3]

definitely. i only got into marvel movies after 2014 so iron man 1 holds no nostalgia for me and iron man 3 is my favourite mcu theme

[@TalysAlankil]

This was my immediate reaction to the Every Frame a Painting. They compared the theme of Star Wars or Harry Potter, which people have heard in seven/eight movies, to a universe that doesn't have a single leitmotiv across movies.

[@Taymanator0051]

YES!! All three of these videos has been interesting, but finally someone mentions that really awesome Avengers main theme! Thank you dude for bringing that Into the discussion!

[@michaelbell4610]

So that explains why when I try to remember Iron Man's theme I get two songs kinda fused together. I rarely see the second one, and I see the first and third all the time.

[@leonnuske2484]

One of the awesome things about infinity war trailers so far has been the recognizable avengers theme.

[@osmanyildiz3263]

and then you look at the infinity war trailer... the theme is back and it gives everyone chills

[@aidalf1912]

OMG YAS

[@militaermusikvorarlberg]

The music of the marvel movies is suuuuch a wasted opportunity. Just thinking about what could have been - memorable themes for every hero, that could have been intertwined in an avengers movie - makes me wanna cry. There's really no one else to blame for this than studio executives.

[@gonzacollao]

Personally, I'd make an exception with Captain America's case. Alan Silvestri's work with the first movie was flawless. But Henry Jackman's theme for The Winter Soldier is amazing. I felt that a change of theme was necessary given the change of tone between the two films; this is justified by adding the little nods to the original theme when the film needed it (For instance, when Steve remembers, either in the Museum scene, or when he looks at his past self...If I'm not mistaken, we could even hear a few notes of it at the end of Age of Ultron). I thought that was very clever; having some sort of duality between the past with Silvestri's theme, and the present with "Taking a Stand". Besides, Henry still managed to give the character that heroic sound with very prominent horns. If you listen to Marvel's themes individually you'll actually find excellent tracks, but I can't help to think that the MCU would benefit a lot from sticking to a solid character theme (of course we can have variations, but, keeping the theme's core). Interesting video though, would love to hear what you guys think. Have a nice day!

[@shouldntyoubecooking]

That's one of the reasons Thor's arrival in Wakanda is so memorable. That score kicking in was epic.

[@mkohlhorst]

Personally I was missing the Immigrant riff in that scene. Example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYfWY6NmnL2Xd7s

[@hawkfang]

@@mkohlhorst it worked until when he yell "Bring me Thanos".

[@clapreload8305]

Why is everyone getting this video recommended now.... Its actually amazing.

[@TenebiCenturion]

I did not realise how old the video was untill I saw your comment... Now im kinda surprised. Deffinetly a good video and glad it was recomended, but... where the hell did it come from? What did I watch that brought this as a recomended video?

[@SlyBeast]

At least they used Spider-Man's classic theme over the normal Marvel fanfare in Homecoming. I really appreciated that touch.

[@iSJS96]

Question: what kind of bear is best? Kidding, real question: should I make a follow-up to this video, checking in on how the MCU's musical continuity has matured over the past few years? With Endgame close on the horizon, I've been thinking of doing a check-in around the time of that movie's release. It just seems fitting.

[@CLR0727]

Yes most definitely

[@alexeratops]

Absolutely

[@TheZexal]

Of course. I'll be looking forward to it.

[@Keytucks]

Yes, because I think they've done much better at this exact issue recently. Infinity War plays the Avengers theme at several key moments, including Cap stepping out of the shadows and Thor's landing in Wakanda.

[@ayruahsramuk3914]

Please do

[@nickshaffer80]

In * Age of Ultron* the Bryan Tyler Iron Man theme appears briefly when he arrives with the Hulkbuster suit in South Africa it was really small, but i got super excited at that moment

[@HarrysFiddlesticks]

thematic continuity is also one of the main reasons why the star wars movies work. I'm glad they've hired Alan Sylvestri again for the up coming Avengers movie

[@LeePresson]

I actually teared up when you played the Avengers theme. That's how effective it is.

[@HS-mn6jc]

Well, ok. You put up a REASON for it being unmemorable instead of a critic review about the fact that it's unmemorable, and I thank you for that. As for my opinion, I honestly don't think the music in the MCU is unmemorable. I mean, yeah, it's not as memorable as say the Star Wars theme, but I honestly don't care. What I like is that they give each movie its own theme because each movie is its own. Each movie is so drastically different, even when in its own franchise, that they deserve different themes. The varying themes help make each MOVIE more memorable than the entire franchise. I mean, when people look at Star Wars movies, they don't often talk about an individual movie, but instead all of them as a whole. When people talk about Marvel Movies, they talk about them separately because each one is unique and has its own strengths and weaknesses that make it stand out. I think the varying musical scores help make it that way, and I love their direction with that.

[@tomakalinus]

Man, I so agree with you. You're right, the other videos were excellent, too, but this one is so spot-on with the main problem. I mean, I guess Marvel's not hurting for popularity and acclaim, but for a film series that brags so much about its interconnectivity, why *wouldn't* they make at least an effort to have some interconnectivity of the music?

[@nikkohewitt8848]

This is exactly what I've been thinking for so long. I liked how Man of Steel, Batman vs Superman, and Wonder Woman had thematic continuity, but the messed it up in Suicide Squad and Justice League.

[@knighthawkprime6534]

I think the only place the theme changing really works is in winter soldier. You mentioned how hints of Cap's original theme remained, while he had a new one for this film. Personally I believe this is reflective of his arc in the movie; loosing the bright eyed, emerald tinted view of America he had initially, and learning that the world has become a darker place since last he left it. The fact that elements of his initial theme remain at all show that the directors/composer chose to make such intentional call backs. Well Executed essay none the less, you my friend have earned a sub ;)

[@mazimadu]

Wow, this is the first time I have ever seen 3 different videos talking about the same thing but arriving at completely different conclusions. All of which are correct in their own way. This feels good to see this on youtube instead of flame wars.

[@benjic-jean574]

After watching that new Infiniti War trailer for the 100th time, I think it's safe to say the next Avengers is DEFINITELY keeping the continuity.

[@Josh3ry]

The avengers theme gives me goosebumps whenever it comes on, exactly as you said because of the continued continuity of the piece.

[@mysticlasryn]

I liked the Iron Man 3 Theme, because it was sprinkled throughout the movie and it was a memorable theme

[@Liam-rn1qb]

Man I love that iron man 1 score

[@TiagoNugentComposer]

Best iron man theme. It just fit so well with the character.

[@yatharthjain2273]

TagoNug wish they never removed it

[@trevorcoyle517]

It's the only piece of music that gave me chills

[@Frosty4427]

Basically, the music is unmemorable because not even the MCU remembers its own music.

[@S0LV0]

I just want to say I'm extremely happy to see this kind of video-response discussion happening. I was extremely fascinated when I saw "A Theory of Film Music" pop up, and subsequently this one, as I really like seeing what different perspectives on the underlying issues different people have. I also very much agree that the lack of continuity is the largest contributing factor in themes being forgetful. The original Iron Man's main theme was memorable in my opinion, but when it's been several years and new movies are coming out which don't use the theme, of course you're going to forget about it. I'm not surprised Danny Elfman actually made attempts to call back to previous themes in Age of Ultron, since he seems to be good about leitmotifs. I think it's that skill that made his Spider-Man score so memorable.

[@ErikWoodsCinSoundRadio]

The best of the three videos! Finally, someone brings up the MAJOR issues plaguing the MCU musically. I've been talking about this at length for years on message boards and on a podcast I co-host. Great examples. Perfectly explained! Bravo!

[@peterparker1683]

ITS ABOUT DAMN TIME SOMEONE BROUGHT THIS UP!!! One of the reasons why Raimi’s Spider-Man was so memorable as because of his thematic continuity

[@catioroforasterodeloeste4790]

man Marvel learned it. In endgame, we have ant man's theme, Captain Marvel's Theme, Captain America TFA's theme. They finally did it!!

[@WolfedOut]

But not any of Iron Man's...

[@Vangance]

we got in one moment some of Tony's theme fro avengers.

[@WolfedOut]

@@Vangance Which one?

[@Vangance]

@@WolfedOut SPOILERS FOR AVENGERS ENDGAME----: have you seen endgame? There is no really Iron mans theme but there is soundtrack from avengers when Iron man is going into wormhole and theme playing there I belive is called "sacrifice" And it plays right before starks final moments in Endgame

[@WolfedOut]

@@Vangance I guess it's not a memorable one, I need to listen to it again.

[@danhoenn]

I agree entirely! This was an excellent response and I think it serves as a good example of how to conduct discourse online. You didn't just rant in the comments section, you made a polished, detailed response. Awesome job

[@snuffles504]

THANK YOU. The music written for this movies doesn't suck. It's just never given a chance to stick around and develop.

[@barnabyfilm]

I don’t like how the themes lack continuity, but honestly I love the iron man 3 theme and I’m glad we got that instead of the iron man theme for 3 films.

[@ahmarsaeed6085]

Iron man 3 and Thor 2 musics are among my all time favourites. And of course there's the Avengers theme. I don't think it's memorable just cuz it got repeated, it's memorable cuz it's bloody magnificent.

[@emberd-l795]

I really love the original Iron Man theme.

[@elijahsimon447]

I like how that this video got posted 2 years ago and im seing ppl comments hours ago

[@j_6469]

This is a fantastic video. A huge reason why Star Wars is one of my favorite franchises musically is that Williams developed a rich library of themes and leit-motifs that could be adapted and evolved to suit different circumstances in every film; it's a huge shame the MCU didn't do the same.

[@CabezasDePescado]

His music for the last two films have been forgettable though

[@dylanseah7161]

@@CabezasDePescado no. It’s way better than anything Marvel.

[@daidarabotchi3891]

I'd really love to see a Marvel: Re-orchestrated kind of thing, with all the soundtracks redone, utilising the established motifs of earlier movies and connecting them with their music (also, having more thematic development of the leitmotifs in the films themselves). If I had an orchestra at my disposal I'd even like to take a crack at Iron Man! As much as I love the Captain America movies, and the original Thor theme, I just think that the original Ramin Djawadi theme for Iron Man was so epic and so criminally under-used. That edit of laying 'Driving with the Top Down' over the top of the Monaco scene was just so great to watch. Also, I think that incorporating Captain America's main theme into Winter Soldier would have been interesting, because part of the point of the character is that he doesn't change. His relationship with the government and authority might, but his ideals don't. It's the world that's changed. So having a version of that heroic theme in Winter Solider would have reinforced the whole fish-out-of-water aspect of the story. I think perhaps that in some situations, full leitmotifs aren't even needed for consistency - instruments are also important. If in the airport battle in Civil War (and throughout the film) we'd had electric guitar clashing with horns, to represent Iron Man and his faction fighting against Captain America's group, then I think the film could have been much improved.

[@SubterrelProspector]

Good GOD THANK YOU! After two different informative videos offering their theory, yours hits the nail on the head. There's barely ANY musical continuity. It's annoying. Thor 1ms theme was so good. That was a tragic loss.

[@brycebitetti1402]

The thing is Marvel does have thematic continuity...sometimes. The Avengers and Guardians of the Galaxy themes are both kept for their sequels, but Guardians of the Galaxy's is unfortunately overshadowed by the Awesome Mixes. They do keep some themes in different movies. The Winter Solider Solider theme is in Civil War (both the character and movie theme). Captain America's theme plays in both Avengers films and Winter Solider. The same can be said for Iron Man and Thor, with their themes returning in Age of Ultron. Unfortunately, most wouldn't pick up on that. Unlike in Guardians of the Galaxy or Avengers, these themes are only barely played, and you have to be paying attention to even notice them. So, yeah. Some consistency is there, it just isn't very good consistency.

[@Xtremeheatraiser]

I completely agree. It's like with DC's Arrowverse. They all have different character themes. You know when the Flash is around or Arrow. But with Marvel- not so much! I feel they have improved on it slightly though. In Avengers: Age of Ultron, there is a tiny snippet of Iron Man 3's character theme when he is suiting up just before the Hulk Buster fight. And in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2, you can hear some parts of the Guardians 1 theme in there. Also in Thor: Ragnarok, you can hear parts of the same theme as in Age of Ultron when *spoiler* Thor tries to calm down Hulk. It's the same music as when Black Widow lullabies him! Anyway, sorry for ranting, but again- I agree with you in the video xD

[@Takeiteasy1489]

also you can hear patrick doyle's thor theme in the ragnarok ending

[@eXquisiteGaming110]

This needs more views. And hopefully someone from the Marvel executive team sees this, so they can take some pointers. Awesome vid!

[@LawofCinema]

Did you come here from "The Music of the Marvel Cinematic Universe - Updated - 09/08/2017" too? xD

[@CYB3R2K]

Remember when forgettable music was the biggest problem in the MCU? 😂 good times

[@robertkreutzer4107]

I think it is about ego (not the planet). Each director wants to make the film his/hers. They hire someone to do the score. This person also has an ego and wants their score to be unique. Cudos to Elfman for being willing to borrow Silvestri's Avengers theme for his score. Too bad this didn't happen for each film (though I adore many of the new scores, one consistent theme for a character can do a lot). One of the best moments in Justice League's score is when it harkens back to the original Superman and Batman character themes. There's not a lot of good stuff there, but those moments are golden.

[@BradsHacks]

"not the planet" lmao

[@aarononeil9832]

YES!!! I have been so pissed off by this for so long, because the first themes of Marvel's first four characters were so good but then mostly abandoned! The only one that's come back properly really was Thor's, and that was only RIGHT at the end of Ragnarok. Guardians of the Galaxy is a godsend for keeping the same them across both films, even if it's fairly generic sounding by Marvel standards it still makes it stand out.

[@viciousclam2417]

This brings up an interesting concept. Now, with the prominence of the MCU in cinema, it's possible that in 20 years kids will be watching the old Phase 1 MCU movies like we watch the original Star Wars movies. It's almost guaranteed that Marvel retained all the assets they used in all their movies, so one day they might decide to overhaul all the old movies and retroactively organize the score to be consistent throughout the films. It's exciting to think that for many of us, the best versions of all the MCU movies have yet to be released.

[@winter1235]

They should have hired John Williams. Then each character would have his or her own unique theme that everyone would recognise after half a chord.

[@aaronchidester806]

Sideways brought me here.

[@thedoomhunter6643]

After watching Ant Man and the Wasp, i think Marvel is slowly adapting that idea on having thematic continuity with its music, as Ant Man's theme which was already memorable on its own, got preserved for the sequel, so i do hope Marvel understands the importance of its Character Themes.

[@LordMangudai]

I feel as though the only reason we have continuity there is because they kept the same director (Peyton Reed) and composer (Christophe Beck). I doubt Marvel gives these composers much instruction at all, so sometimes you get continuity and sometimes you don't depending on what mood the composer is in. Some of them like Elfman on Age of Ultron opt to reuse other composers' themes; others like Henry Jackman on Civil War just ignore everything and start from scratch.

[@talcy]

The Iron Man 2 theme is far, far too similar to Jerry Goldsmith's theme to Total Recall. I love Tyler's theme to IM3, really works and should be kept on, IMO. Again, yes on Doyle's Thor music, inexplicably abandoned. Very glad to hear that Silvestri's returning for Avengers: Infinity War. Cap's theme is indeed ooutstanding. So many of the newer composers seem less and less interested in lietmotif, which I guess a lot of us older guys are used to from Williams, Horner, Silvestri and Elfman. Much respect to Elfman for retaining and building on Silvestri's Avengers theme.

[@maxmarks3503]

I think you are completely correct. When the Avengers Theme Song returned in the Infinity War trailer, it gave me such goosebumps. It's a real missed opportunity that they never did that with the other sequels.

[@moexilla]

I have to agree with you there. It's almost as if they've identified how significant the Avengers theme was and how important it would be to include it in the trailer to further remind us that this is the Avengers. This is why I'm a huge fan of continuity and keeping composers for the same franchise. Each composer adds their interpretation to it which is important when you go from Hans Zimmer who's less melodic and more digital to John Williams who's more melodic and more orchestra driven. It changes the feel and vibe of the film. All in all I already got my tickets for Infinity War!

[@smallsdude]

I'm probably the biggest Marvel fan out there and I can't knock on any part of your argument, you're totally fair and honestly right in your argument. When Thor's original theme came on at the end of Thor: Ragnarok it was so refreshing, and now that Allen Silvestri is building off of the original Avengers theme for Infinity War makes me even more pumped up for that action. But man I wish we could hear more of the music from Thor 1, Iron Man 1, and The Winter Soldier.

[@elreydelvideo]

smallsdude *In the new Infinity trailer the song ASSEMBLE is played, although it kinda sounds like the song FATHER AND SON from TRON LEGACY*

[@princessjellyfish98]

I feel like the Captain America movies definitely did the best job of this. As you mentioned, they often call back to Silvestri's original theme directly, but I think the score from winter soldier shows a thematic progression of the theme from the first movie in a way that iron man and Thor do not. And I also think the fact that they establish and reuse the winter soldier theme in civil war (which is so good!!!) helps establish that character as well. Besides the music from avengers, I remember captain America, black panther, and guardians the most. Not only are these films well scored, but the composers know when to use music to help tell the story.

[@EveryFairyDies]

I absolutely agree with all you're saying. It has completely baffled me that there have been no character-specific themes carried across the franchise. I understand that each score is by different composers, and as such there are many licensing laws which may make re-using themes difficult, depending on who owns them. I'd understand if each new composer created a new VARIATION on a theme, but they seem to be totally ignoring this. Imagine how awesome a collection of themes we'd have for each character by now! It's so sad that they've done almost everything else so perfectly, but have failed in such an important aspect of every film.

[@carlossalazar972]

I agree, a consistent theme plays a role in establishing continuity and building hype. I get chills everytime I here that opening marvel logo, because they've kept it consistent and when I hear it, I know I'm in for a treat.

[@errhka]

Excellent video - the most simple and elegant solution is usually the best. I've been saying this for a while, and I completely think that the other two are right in some way, but the biggest single reason for explaining why we don't know themes is the reason you've listed. I've only ever been able to hum Captain America's theme and the Avenger's theme - and this is the main reason why. I could recognize Iron Man 1 but I wouldn't be able to name or hum any of the others.

[@tyronehurst3316]

I've been saying this for years. Keep the character themes for each movie, then make a combination overture for the Avengers. They need to do the same thing with DC.

[@pira707]

That's smart.

[@uhlan30]

This is the video about this topic I find myself agreeing with most. That being said, I don't agree with you 100%. One thing I disagree with is the assertion, or at least the implication, that Silvestri's Avengers theme is not actually any better than any of the other MCU themes, and the primary reason that it is the most memorable is that it was, unlike the other themes, actually preserved in the sequel. I definitely don't think the other MCU themes are bad. They are very good. But there is something that makes the Avengers theme stand out. Something more than simply that it has lasted for more than one movie. And it's this: The Avengers theme is catchy. It presents a clear, obvious, and iconic melody that is easily recognizable and easy to remember. Above all else, this is, in my opinion, what makes a piece of music great. It's why the Star Wars fanfare, Beethoven's 5th, and most Beatles songs are all widely remembered to this day. While most of the other MCU themes do this to some extent, they just don't do it quite as well as Silvestri's Avengers theme. Sure, if you listen to Tyler's Iron Man theme a few times, and get familiar with the melody, it might get stuck in your head for a while. But I highly doubt that after seeing Iron Man 3 for the first time, you walked out of the theater humming Iron Man's theme. On the other hand, after seeing The Avengers for the first time, there's a good chance you walked out of the theater humming the Avengers' theme. So, I'll have to disagree with this video on that point. In my opinion, the Avengers theme _is_ better than most, if not all, other MCU themes. And I think the fact that it was preserved in the sequel is not the only thing that makes it memorable.

[@ProffessorLazarus]

Although the music continuity issue in the MCU annoys me, I have to say that in the case of the Captain America trilogy, I actually like that all 3 themes are different. The First Avenger score was very march-like which was fitting with the WW2 element of the film. The Winter Soldier was suddenly very electronic which I thought was fitting with Cap suddenly having to adapt to modern times. Then Civil War almost had a mix of the 2 previous scores; electronic as Cap now lives in modern times, but much more orchestral than Winter Solider, as Steve had found his place as Captain America again. I love how the music has traced Cap's journey, and although I love Alan Silvestri's work, it worries me slightly that he's coming back to do the Infinity War score. Obviously its great that he's composing for the Avengers again, as he made the Avengers theme, which is the most memorable theme in the entire MCU, but I feel like he'd be tempted to use his original First Avenger theme for Captain America, but it just wouldn't fit with post-Civil War Captain America, or Nomad. Hopefully Alan Silvestri will leave the First Avenger theme alone because as much as I like it, it only really fits with a 1940s, stars and stripes, Captain America.

[@siddhantsharma7728]

Personally I like Iron Man 3 theme best, it is them for Tony Stark and Iron Man. first two were only for Tony Stark.

[@PhilAlm92]

Siddhant Sharma And it’s also in Age Of Ultron. Great to have the characters’ solo-music in the team-ups

[@macmcleod1188]

I think you have a good point. And yes-- I thought about the avengers theme. It gives me chills in connection with the infinity war videos. Very good point. Repetition and variation add resonance and power as time proceeds.

[@joeyday4]

THIS. Thank you, this is what I was screaming at my computer screen during the previous two videos. You hit the nail right on the head.

[@laaarsas]

Same here!

[@bradleyhite3476]

Joey Day Same, I have even thought of making my own video about it even though I don't make KZbin videos

[@SpudIllusionPictures]

SAME :D

[@MrHaydnSir]

4:00 an example when seeing the first trailer for Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them ..most felt an instant nostalgia because it used a revamped version of the Harry Potter theme tune .. although revamped you could certainly hear the recognisable theme and it brought you right back to everything you knew and loved with the original films

[@hiryu87]

Excellent points. It's painful how little musical continuity there is in the MCU, and to your point the fact that the Avengers theme is consistent makes the Infinity War trailer positively chill-inducing :-)

[@radicalhedgehog_]

It’s sad to see the MCU doesn’t have music continuity

[@Franiac32]

This! Thank you, this is the issue I have always had with the MCU.

[@aevenstar100]

I will note there has been one example of slight thematic continuity, outside just the 'Avengers' theme. The original Thor's main theme and 'end credits' theme is included at the end of Ragnarok, which I think was really beautiful as that's the point where we finally see Thor as King, and it really brought the story full circle. The song in Ragnarok is called 'Where To', and it directly calls back to 'Earth to Asgard' from the first movie. (Obviously this video couldn't have talked about that as Ragnarok came out after, but just wanted to mention it! Maybe Marvel is learning something) Also Guardians 2 keeps a lot of the musical identity from the 1st, both in the soundtrack and in the score

[@bobbyriesco6420]

Avengers: Age of Ultron tried to help these themes out by definitely adding the Iron Man 3 score with the Hulkbuster. A bit of one of the Captain America movies when he fights Ultron in Seoul. And 1 second of Thor: The Dark World when Thor is diving to save the people in the falling car in Sokovia. James Gunn managed to do this with Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 which I give him props for. Also Thor: Raganarok was brilliant in adding the original Thor theme music from the very first movie at the very end of the last movie to show love to the first movie back in 2011. But I absolutely agree that I would love some more of the first soundtrack of Iron Man in Avengers: Infinity War and some more continuity.

[@guicaldo7164]

You have good points there, and I'm also upset that Marvel doesn't reuse the music. But... the Avengers theme was already iconic before the sequel rolled around.

[@KamenRiderAliks]

That had a huge impact seeing the different Iron Man themes play across movies. Makes me wish only one composer stuck with it.

[@ryebread5831]

Captain America’s score is fucking amazing

[@cheer90099]

I really do love Tyler's Iron Man theme....

[@AlexRooneyComposer]

The theme I normally associate with Iron Man is the one from Iron Man 3 which is bizarre as its the MCU movie I've watched the least.

[@big99gamer18]

Alex Rooney I believe that actually use the iron man 3 theme when he was changing into hulkbuster

[@kidflickreviews308]

The music has been getting better recently. Black panther is a great example

[@azn_hojang]

yeah let shope they keep continuity cx

[@annaknapp1473]

I find this to be a compelling argument in the MCU music discourse! In Spiderman: Homecoming, Michael Giacchino used the Avengers motif near the end of the film when Peter is taken to the the Avengers base. I thought that was a nice touch and a refreshing bit of continuity in an otherwise disjunct musical landscape.

[@spencercreaghan6579]

also avengers ultron and ant-man scores are my favourites, because they're the only ones that actually try to re-use themes. Avenger's 2 uses iron-man 3 theme, one snippet of thor 2 theme (when he's rescuing the woman in the car), captain america's theme twice, the helicarrier theme, the avenger's assemble motif (after hawkeye's 'father' speech to scarlet witch), and the avenger's theme. Ant-man's score uses the avenger's theme and falcon's theme from cap2

[@eliaswarhammar5207]

I just love how at the end of Thor: Ragnarok we finally hear the theme from the first Thor movie in the end. It kind of wraps it all up

[@Holobrine]

Oh my god, you are totally right. They missed the opportunity for strong leitmotifs!

[@bachthefly]

Marvel needs to learn how to make scores like Star Wars, or in this case, John Williams. Usually, "recycling" your own work can be considered lazy. But not for scores. John Williams' ways is the reason why Star Wars scores are so memorable. You can name and even remember many, like: The general Main title(for the opening crawl), the general Finale part, the Imperial March, Rey's theme, Luke's theme, March of the Resistance,... the list go on and on. Marvel really needs to focus more on making scores.

[@iSJS96]

Mark your calendars, folks. On Tuesday, April 16th - I'm releasing a sequel to this video! 10 days before Endgame is unleashed, I'll take a look back at the previous seven Marvel films (not counting Captain Marvel, as it wasn't released when I wrote and produced the video) and delve into the strides the MCU has made in thematic continuity. The new video is less analytical/thesis-driven than this video. Instead, it's more of a showcase of the recent slew of great MCU themes. Still, I have a few hot-takes in the tuck, don't you worry! Thank you all for the support you've given this video, and I hope you enjoy the follow-up!

[@Blitzblazer90009]

YES! I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR ONE

[@robeldridge5668]

Guardians of the Galaxy, whilst having already existing songs for its soundtrack, also has a memorable theme that's used in both films.

[@stevisburntin2094]

Dude. FANTASTIC VIDEO. The best out of all the videos trying to explain why MCU music isn't memorable.

[@DivingHusky]

From "The Marvel Symphonic Universe", "A Theory of Film Music" to "Marvel Music: The Thematic Continuity Issue", each videos give different insight, knowledge and opinions on the same topic. They may not all be right, but we as viewers certainly gain a lots from these videos. This is why debate, discussions are crucial to the discovery of knowledge or answers. Each time we are one step closer to the real answers.

[@gembocobo9484]

The avengers main theme always bring a tear in my eye and makes me question if this is really happening. Damn it man it great to be alive....

[@MrCardman12345]

Man, Brian Tyler's Iron Man theme is good. Wish they coulda stuck with it, it's incredible.

[@FettsHappy]

Have to agree with this. John Williams does this excellently in the Star Wars saga. Character themes are used in different tones and melodies to fit the scene but are still instantly recognisable. The movie experience is heightened as a result. I think the MCU is starting to do this now, Infinity War is the perfect movie to showcase the different character themes that are now starting to be established.

[@Studio2770]

The thing is they can't showcase different character themes if they haven't been utilized well. Since they have so many characters it'd be even harder for people to pick up on the themes aside from Iron Man.

[@FettsHappy]

Hey Rez. I do actually agree with your point for the original (movie) Avengers line up,. however I think from Ant-Man onwards they have tried to establish more prominent themes for the heroes. We will have to see if their themes are continued in Infinity War and their individual sequel's.

[@joshmason7821]

I'm honestly going to subscribe to you now man. As a music composition major, I found that neither video was really getting it right. The real problem lies in the lack of motifs. I thought Thor (2010) had one of the better soundtracks, and they never brought back those themes. So disappointing. You are great at this.

[@Beatness121]

I think it's somewhat of a combination of the 3 theories, but I definitely think that this video is the biggest reason it's not memorable.

[@wavellwilliamsjr7111]

this explanation is spot on mate. establishing a theme is arguably as important as when visually and vocally describing a character.

[@ThePsychoCrazyClown]

Alan Silvestri confirmed for Infinity War! #praisethecontinuity

[@justinbebsmus121]

The thing a lot of people are missing, that you somewhat touched on in the video is that a theme can develop and change when it is introduced in later films. To say the Thor theme sounds odd in the Age of Ultron example, well you're not wrong... but what you have to understand is that the theme itself would be arranged in a way to show off the melodic theme, while changing to fit the context of the scene. This idea of arranging a theme to fit the context of a movie would allow for growth along with the character. Winter Solider and Civil War could have been great examples of this. We could introduce the main theme in almost it's original arrangement toward the beginning of the film when Cap is in a relaxed state of being. Once the movie picks up and the chaos begins, the theme can reflect that. Morphing and changing to reflect the turmoil and tension within the film. Then once things are solved and the film resolves we can hear the main theme once again, either in it's original state or in a slightly modified arrangement to reflect the change within Cap. In a film like Civil War you could do the same thing expect in this scenario you could bring back the theme at the end but almost make it completely in recognizable, when Cap's world is completely upside down as he moves forward into completely uncharted territory. Music can and SHOULD play to the tone and theme of the movie... but just as the MCU tries to not recast it's main actors and actresses, it would be in the best interest of the overall franchise to do the same with it's musical identity. Give the actor a new hair cut or costume... but lets try to keep as many of the originals as possible.

[@Futurevenomzone]

The Falcon and Winter Soldier series has proven this theory correct to me, I never cared much for Civil War's score but I still managed to recognize Zemo's theme when it showed up in the latest episode

[@iron_b24]

And even the main theme of Falcon is the leitmotiv from TWS.

[@thesifagenda]

The Iron Man 3 theme does stick around with Tony in Age of Ultron (See the Hulkbuster fight) and I hear it's also in Civil War, so there's that.

[@leonardogonzalez1298]

Sif-san, I noticed it on the Hulkbuster fight, too. However I didn’t notice it on civil war, can you pin point where, exactly, is it?

[@TintelFruit]

I think it's when he jumps out of his jet to go meet steve, I actually quite like the iron man 3 theme. edit: not jet, helicopter.

[@caitlin3810]

I agree and this was a really good video but also Thor’s theme is definitively the Immigrant Song as of Rangorok

[@sheamcnally7507]

And when he came into wakanda with the avengers theme playing is perfect

[@jeffreychandler8418]

I think transitioning themes can have an arguement for it. So like his main theme would be one of the older ones, make that continuous, but then when he has a massive shift in character, change the theme/motif to reflect that. I believe that could be a cool experiment.

[@RC-er9bl]

the cap 1 theme was at the start of cap 2 so i guess there is some continuity but they changed the theme because of the complete change in tone

[@bluechick7113]

I agree with most of what you said. That's what made a lot of Infinity War so special, because of the original Avengers theme that played when for example Thor and Cap appeared. I think that changing the theme for the other Captain America films wasn't that bad of a decision. Cap has changed a lot and is in a new world. The theme for "CA:The first Avenger" sounded patriotic, like Cap. But in Civil War the theme of the movie isn't about how he's fighting for his country. He's fighting for Bucky and freedom, and his country (actually the government) is in his way.

[@Jackson-tz5bh]

uninteressanter Kanal lots of thematic continuity occurred during that movie. For example, the tesseract theme and the infinity war theme

[@jackdaone6469]

Agreed, some musical consistency would go a long way to making the music of the MCU memorable. As mediocre as Justice League was, one thing I did love was Elfman using snippets of his classic Batman theme and Superman’s theme from the 80s. Because, honestly, those themes are iconic.

[@rayn0577]

The same man who did Pacific Rim did Iron Man, and Marvel didn’t keep him around for Iron Man 2 and 3....what a waste.

[@DaveKatague]

He also did game of thrones

[@Raze9110]

He returned for eternals tho