Why Do Marvel's Movies Look Kind of Ugly? (video essay)

I really like the movies Marvel Studios makes, but I really wish they would improve their color grading.
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Music by Epidemic Sound
Featuring footage from:
Side by Side amzn.to/2jgb3Xm
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Iron Man 3
Thor
Thor: The Dark World
The Avengers
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Captain America: Th First Avenger
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Captain America: Civil War
Guardians of the Galaxy
Ant-Man
Doctor Strange
Mad Max: Fury Road
Jupiter Ascending
Spotlight
Sicario
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Patrick Willems
P.O. Box 380333
Brooklyn, NY 11238

[@patrickhwillems]

YES, I REALIZE I FORGOT THE INCREDIBLE HULK

[@philleotardo7688]

lel

[@salamilofi9323]

Patrick (H) Willems didn't we all?

[@anishstark3232]

Patrick (H) Willems fuck u

[@kevinvu5432]

Patrick (H) Willems why do you imply the idea of cameras being the problem (with no proper evidence) and then exact it by going back to your issue and then have hope because of the camera......youre very inconsistent in this video or didn't explain your correlation properly. I like the movies...But I also feel like they do it intentionally due to trying to make all the films feel like they fit together. I know it's not the best choice but looks like it was intentional.

[@cohengiesbrecht]

Personally, I think the color grading is just fine. In fact, I think they did it just right, and that we still got the feeling of what Marvel wants us to feel. Ether way, great video!

[@CatteYokai]

This is one of those things you don't notice until somebody points it out and then you're never able to unsee it again.

[@aechman67]

Yea

[@woodycook3133]

Zenith Mate i'm pretty sure that Marvel saw this video then went out of their way to make gardians 2 and thor ragnorock the most colourful things ever

[@NjBou]

So true I lowkey wish I never saw this hahahah

[@itzpsey]

Zenith ikr.

[@MrBunny53]

nah I've always noticed their movies lacked proper color which makes it look normal and one dimensional.

[@josephwoo69]

Holy shit i never realized how gray it actually is. The sky is barely even blue in marvel movies, wtf

[@MildeAmasoj]

I noticed how gray the movies were in Age of Ultron and Civil War, but I blamed it on the darkness of Phase 2 and 3. This is very cool. In Thor 3 they increased the saturation A LOT. I don't know about the black though.

[@codemperor97]

Yeah, couldn't agree more! I just realized it as well

[@elit34life53]

exactly

[@swegbruh199]

atleast it isnt always night looking, like dc

[@gc3k]

After Avengers 1 almost all of these movies look flat

[@Abatteries]

People are saying how this is a choice to make the movies more realistic, but the dark knight trilogy doesn't have this problem, even though it also aims for realism. Dull doesn't mean realistic

[@Young_Dab]

Bruh not more realistic but more color accurate

[@eurekafilmsNz]

dark night......shadows plays a huge role in the story telling of that movie and therefore you shouldnt be conparing

[@CamoflaugeDinosaue]

A. it's superheros, who the fuck cares about realistic B. It's not realism, it's because this is the version the focus groups had the least negative reaction to. Creation by numbers is all these films are.

[@Valdivia9494]

Feels more down to earth, kind of like if it was filmed by a news network. Which tbh, it's a great feel for things so massive as they happen in these movies.

[@dantan1249]

Abatteries unless you live in Seattle. Haha

[@KingOfKingz819]

This is essentially my biggest problem with the MCU. Everything looks the same and the "same" is straight up bland. The content of the films themselves are hit or miss for me but even the hits suffer from this.

[@grimsobad8545]

I feel like falcon and the winter soldier looks much better

[@ian3087]

Because they are making it look like in the same universe.

[@burgermind802]

Ian that is not a good excuse

[@veenajoshua9461]

The movies are also the same. Except winter soldier

[@TRUMP_2024_PREZ]

@@veenajoshua9461 MCU LOW QUALITY CINEMA AND LOW QUALITY COLOR GRADING...AND ONSLAUGHT OF CRINGEWORHTY CHILDISH COMEDY #FACTS

[@kiwibean9313]

DC is too dark I literally can't see their movies

[@slipstream3903]

You sir a bland af. Their movies are visually amazing and beautiful. The colors pop because of the proper black values, rich colors, and real color grading.

[@dericjames2018]

@TJS 1701 nope wrong

[@dericjames2018]

@TJS 1701 Just saying BVS and Justice League, Wonder Woman had lots of color but I will admit Man Of Steel and Suicide Squad were really dull.

[@dericjames2018]

@TJS 1701 I have The 4K Blu Ray for BVS and it looked nice with good colors but I think the regular version is dull I never seen it lmao.

[@Shoeless598]

You're so dark, are you sure your not from the DC universe?

[@DogWick]

Even The Dark Knight Trilogy which had a gritty realistic tone had more colour and much better lighting than Avenger age of ultron for example

[@tm4066]

Wally Pfister always did a great job creating a subtle but vibrant color palette for the trilogy: Orange/Brown for Begins, Blue/Silver for TDK, Black/Vivid White for Rises. Also helped tremendously that there was no digital intermediate when it came to color correction, all old school color timing for the entire reel(s).

[@DogWick]

Bryan Song All movies that are shot on film usually look miles better than digital cameras like Interstellar, Spectre, The Hateful Eight and Star Wars The Force Awakens etc though some movies shot digitally in recent years look amazing like Skyfall, Mad Max Fury Road and The Martian I always knew something was odd about the way marvel movies looked

[@tm4066]

Interstellar and Hateful Eight are great examples of filmmakers working with the tools they have and just letting the film stocks speak for themselves. I still look at Drive (2011) as THE best usage of digital to print examples. Was blown away when I found that movie was shot on digital (although recorded to HD-cam). The wide range of colors on that film really convinced me digital could go head to head with film. Years after that initial movement we're at a time where desaturated films are king, both studio and indie ones unfortunately.

[@DogWick]

Bryan Song Even TV shows like Stranger Things looked amazing not sure if they used film stocks or digital cameras

[@tm4066]

I just took a look at their imdb tech specs page and see they shoot the show on Red Dragon cams. Their colorist does a great job on the show though, really interesting dynamic range of colors. I read that he also did color for Gladiator and Avatar. Awesome show with awesome visuals.

[@TheFirehands150]

Dude... when you realize the behind the scenes footage has better color gradient than the movie

[@MorganLeodeMenezes]

Lol 😂🤣

[@ArchibaldClumpy]

And the behind-the-scenes footage literally looks better because you can see people existing in a setting instead of bad CGI puppets running around some animated arena; interspersed with close-up character shots with the blurriest, most generic backgrounds you ever saw.

[@bobsonny]

color grading, not color gradient

[@boomerfunnyjimgaffigan4998]

yeah, I laughed really hard when u said that civil war looked like an "empty parking lot." And yeah, all of marvels movies look too grey or light and there's very little saturation. great video, well narrated, excellent points made. and funny.

[@MorganLeodeMenezes]

The winter Soldier movie's colour grading also looks similar to civil war but the only difference is it works for winter Soldier movie because it is a total spy thriller/political thriller movie that's why it works in winter Soldier

[@MorganLeodeMenezes]

Have you noticed MCU phase 2 most of the movies had grey colour grading

[@1080TJ]

I've seen people describe Marvel movies as "bright and colorful" and could never understand what they were talking about. When you said "muddy concrete" and "empty parking lot" it felt like someone had finally put my thoughts into words. You managed to explain why the set pieces in Doctor Strange look so tame compared to similar ones in Inception or The Matrix. It also helps explain why Iron Man 1 remains my favorite Marvel film - if nothing else, it's at least exciting to look at.

[@bewaretheconficker]

Nice profile picture- St. Vincent is the shit!

[@simonegreco1958]

Well, the Avengers is somewhat colourful...thanks to the characters

[@1000aaronaaronaaron]

marvel does have great colors. *especially* doctor strange. and inception and matrix had nothing like doctor strange. all you people just repeat each other. smh have fun lying to yourselves

[@simonegreco1958]

***** Are we not allowed to criticize?

[@TK0S3]

Doctor Strange looks tame compared to Inception ? hahahahahaha. Ok then.

[@TheCrazyDcoolest]

Even Logan, the most human comic book movie in years was more vibrant than MCU movies.

[@DHynes5]

And BvS as well. Despite what people think of the film, those visuals were phenomenal!!!

[@goodjobeli]

Guardians 2 was very vibrant. Marvel have improved!

[@pphyjynx8217]

i'd rather have a good movie than a good looking movie

[@Pastrybfs]

Film is a visual medium though. Read a book if the story is the most important part for you.

[@orphious885]

Mid Gub really? 'cause I thought it was a bit intentionally subdued. I mean, most of it takes place in the desert, on the road, or in a woods. The tone of Wolverine dying slowly is reflected in the earthy colors of the film.

[@sarcasm-83]

Saw the title, frowned and went "What the hell - ugly? What is this...?!" Watched the video and... yeah, I completely agree. How have I not noticed that before? When I edit things, I always go for a more vibrant picture - or when I watch movies on my PC and use VLC player or such to view them, I often add saturation, contrast - tweak it to nice and vibrant. 3:48 aboud Civil War is an incredible difference and I now wish I could watch all of them with such correction.

[@Young_Dab]

I don't recall the movies looking this dull or muddy when I used watch them. I think he purposely edited the videos scenes to make them look this way

[@abates17]

Sarcasm You can! Just go to your TV picture settings, bump up the Saturation level, maybe turn Brightness down and Contrast up, and you’ll have a picture exactly like Patrick’s color grading. Personally I want skin tones to look natural and not orange, but if you want to use his artificial color grading, knock yourself out!

[@bolbol6434]

Sometimes, i used my video player to change and tweak the color of their movies 🤣🤣🤣

[@Mechator_Rex]

It is several years later. Just saw "The Black Widow". You can even see the work of the different lighting and camera teams. The work there is somehow to most extent almost just BS! :-/

[@queerasaclockworkorangehor1776]

So that's what you think? A saturated contrasty aka nice and vibrant should be how all things should look?

[@blackswanvante]

I always told my sister that the MCU films looked “ashy” to me and she told me I was crazy BUT THIS CONFIRMS IT I KNEW IT HAD TO DO WITH COLOR GRADING

[@Maisonikkokufan]

Bit late lol but did you ever show this video to your sister? And did it change her opinion at all?

[@ranger8606]

at first i was confused because i never saw anything wrong with the visuals, but then i saw the side-by-side part and it was a drastic change. now im never going to be able to see marvel movies the same again lol

[@NotQuiteFirst]

Yeah high contrast is easier to like, hence Instagram filters

[@angelomordini6779]

Now I notice the grey overlook and I want them to be more vibrant

[@henrycohn5085]

Angelo James Mordini But he also showed a bit of Mad Max: Fury Road which to me was ridiculously coloured and made me think it was all CG (when in fact it was mostly practical effects). On the other hand I enjoyed the film much more as a result of the ridiculous aesthetics; the hatred I hold for this entire genre of film was greatly abated by seeing something which to me didn't take itself seriously

[@dougpleppen3803]

There was a fuck ton of CGI in Fury Road my dude.

[@henrycohn5085]

doug pleppen That's what I thought when I watched it but later I read it was mainly practical effects, or at least a lot more than I expected it to be.

[@TheOriginalNCDV]

Henry Cohn The stunts, explosions etc are practical effects, but the scenery is heavily CGI'd from the behind-the-scenes footage I've seen...

[@ricemenarq6230]

The examples he used were actually bootlegged copies some chinese guy shot

[@indradinho88]

Couldn’t agree more. At first watching The Avengers on cinema, I thought the exhibitor forget to fine tuning the colors. My dull life is even more colorful than any digitally shot MCU movies

[@denn_al]

Lol

[@cringekiller348]

Dumb comment from a dumb mcu hater on an outdated video.

[@johnsonwang7253]

I don't understand how I only just stumbled onto this. As a person who works in the film industry and also edits his own photography, the color grading was something I always noticed as being lackluster in these films. I'm curious to see how you feel about the overall look of Infinity War now that it's been out. I feel like the look of that film as well as Black Panther really felt more polished than their precious works.

[@TycoNewRC]

Don't you mean "previous works" at the end of your comment? You should probably edit that.

[@LordofMovies91]

@@TycoNewRC I think "precious works" kinda fits too. Haha

[@waldokleynhans6977]

TycoNewRC no he meant precious

[@Mysikrysa]

Black Panther looks like a computer game. It all kinda looks like a computer game. Totally fake.

[@waldokleynhans6977]

Mysikrysa your joking right? A computer game, have you even seen black panther?

[@shduduwuhsdhi1951]

Dc is so dark that it gets pulled over by the police for no reason

[@woghat6130]

oH MY GOD

[@eshan309]

that was very dark joke

[@dr.shwetasrivastava1681]

It seems the case of night blindness

[@politereminder6284]

cold man, cold😂😂😂

[@_linlin_]

This is the dark humour i need

[@mudkipaficionado7547]

Thor Ragnorak had amazing color saturation. It was very satisfying too watch.

[@captainaffection]

Just the comment I was looking for. :)

[@wserthmar8908]

Captain Laurence No deep dark tone and color in Ragnarok

[@judas3089]

In the first half hour of Ragnarok, the theme was kinda dark (:

[@dramamine755]

Captain Laurence do you know much about color grading?

[@kareemabusalah5079]

And black panther

[@bitmap6280]

You exactly addressed my problem with Marvel films. The weird lack of saturation makes the movies feel empty and lifeless when they have the potential to feel and look vibrant and as intense as the story they are telling. You can still see it in some of Marvel's more recent movies like Thor Ragnarok, even though it's is one of the most colorful and beautifully shot MCU movies to date (in my opinion). DC's color grading feels less flat (especially in Wonder Woman) but the dark tones and SO MUCH BLUE (the Zack Snyder look) run the risk of going to the opposite extreme. Anyway great video on a great channel. Well done 👏👏👏

[@elfsieben1450]

Snyder just fucked up anything that used to be good about DC movies. Good riddance to the Snyderverse!

[@cringekiller348]

Lmao You are butt hurt hater. Marvel are improved a lot on this. The fact that you are commenting on a five year old. Which is outdated Clearly proves your bs.

[@undead_corsair]

2 years on and by the looks of Captain Marvel it seems they still haven't figured out how to make scenes set in urban areas look decent.

[@kevinstevenson4629]

People are saying that the film has to look grey in order to have a "realistic" look, but if you look at movies like The Dark Knight or the Dark Knight Rises 4K Blu-rays, it becomes quite apparent that a film can look realistic without having to have a low contrast color grade. GOTG2 and Ragnarok had some very nice grading and I think they handled their digital images well.

[@drksideofthewal]

TDK had the opposite problem. Everything else in the movie was so grounded and gritty, they needed saturation to make it resemble a comic book movie.

[@jacobbentley9318]

Have you seen dark Knight? From what I remember the colours were pretty toned down

[@ViveLRoi]

I would not agree with that. TDK has very strong colors, they're just mostly in shades of blue and black. But the use of black does give great depth to the contrasting colors-- mostly blues and purples. It's not really toned-down or washed out. Of them, Batman Begins might possibly be described having a washed out look, and it's very brownish in its overall color palette. But I still think it makes excellent use of black to bring out those colors. It helps that all 3 of Nolan's Batman movies were shot on film rather than digital.

[@pixelboss4980]

So🤓🤓🤓

[@kayleighjosiah]

Kevin Stevenson I think it has to do with making these heroes feel more human rather than just looking realistic. Instead of pulling on the bright comic colors they wanted a warmer family palette to communicate to people and broaden their audience.

[@razorwing360]

Guardians of the Galaxy 2 and Homecoming are full of color. But this video was before those so.... yeah

[@wserthmar8908]

RAZORWING They still haven’t deep dark colors and tone, though

[@judas3089]

Homecoming didn't really bring anything special though, kinda visualy boring compared to what films are today, Thor Ragnarok and some scenes in Black Panther kinda nailed what the beauty of color is

[@judas3089]

@@ftlbattosai9470 who are u talking to

[@ftlbattosai9470]

@@judas3089 lol oh I was talking to RAZORWING but it didn't add their name for some reason, I shall fix it.

[@ftlbattosai9470]

RAZORWING but they suck.

[@Rezgate]

5 years later and we are still suffering from this…

[@rhinuu045]

and now the cinematography just sucks in general. like wtf lmao

[@WL1264]

@@rhinuu045 Dr strange multiverse of madness? Shang Chi?

[@rhinuu045]

@@WL1264 dr strange's visuals were awesome but again the cinematography fell flat to me. lots of really ugly and uncreative upper body shots but ig its subjective. overall id still say that its getting worse, nwh, thor 4, she hulk, gotg holiday special generally had super mid looking shots to me its just that the movies look a lot more colorful (good thing btw) but it doesnt look as cinematic as before

[@austingilcher6687]

I love how this is the one video bashing marvel but people are still bringing the hate to DC

[@l0sts0ul89]

Fact

[@tclturbo2456]

They need to bring up DC to defend the MCU

[@upon1326]

@@tclturbo2456 correction they need to bring up the dceu to defend mcu Dc comics and animation are far superior to marvel medium

[@NP-zv4bf]

Bc apparently they have this mindset that the stuff marvel does bad at dc is even worse, and that’s not necessarily true since only the dceu is inferior to the mcu, while I’m every other aspect dc and marvel are equal or dc is killing them like in animated movies and games

[@hoangkhuongtang6111]

They cannot give a good statement to defend their favorite movies against the criticism, so they make a DC's joke to make them feel better.

[@rawkrXbabee]

Shoot now I'm gonna be all judgy of the colour grading now, thanks a lot video man! :(

[@joekaput747]

Sammy I already am for the dc films.

[@joshuak5798]

+Joe Kaput DC films are visually stunning.

[@eliseugouveia5065]

Criticise DC movies all you like, one thing you can't take away from them is the fact that they are visually STUNNING. Zack may be a flawed storyteller, but imagery is the one field he dominates.

[@joekaput747]

I think Zack might be better off as a cinematographer instead of a director, based on what y'all are saying.

[@bboiblack1948]

doesn't write said flawed stories.

[@v.m.3337]

I find it amusing how he had to mention 70 times "how much he liked marvel movies" just so the fan boys wouldn't attack and there are still over 4000 dislikes...

[@rohailsheikh9105]

Vasil Molaliyski But that's how Marvel fanboys are. They can get easily pissed of.

[@v.m.3337]

Rohail Sheikh They are often either young or just mentally underdeveloped

[@joshuaokparaocha331]

4000 isn't that much

[@danbaker8965]

Rohail Sheikh that's all fanboys though. People just have to realize what THEY like isn't always the best

[@noarmsally2628]

1:30 - look in the bottom right of the screen 1:32 - color grading added a rock there?

[@user-zd2kl9yg4v]

Yes.

[@danielfogli1760]

That's some serious color grading 😉

[@Matt-hw5tt]

Post-production added both the colour grading and the rock.

[@Luca-bv5ic]

One is obviously behind the scenes footage and the other is the final movie, so they OBVIOUSLY CGId a rock in for the final movie.

[@peterxiong3367]

the trailers for endgame look really nice, color grading wise.

[@69mviewsnt]

finally... im glad they changed it

[@teachugger8552]

@@69mviewsnt it has been changed for the past 2 years. Where have you been?

[@Reippa]

Trailer doesn't honestly look that good.

[@amanms1999]

@@teachugger8552 ant Man and the wasp and cap marvel had terrible colour grading

[@David-dv5ov]

@@teachugger8552 Captain Marvel's color grading gave me terminal cancer

[@guillermovaccarezza7105]

100% agreed. Altough I have to say that for instance... in Winter Soldier that particular color grading worked well because the movie is more gritty and "realistic", not so pulpy, so in cases like that the washed out color grading is a go.

[@christoffelmiddel6663]

Another Winter Soldier comment, I'm telling you it does not look remotly realisitic to me.

[@stt.9433]

since when are marvel movies meant to be taken seriously

[@jonnoweb]

Guillermo Vaccarezza It's ok with Winter Soldier but the others need fixed.

[@Dangerous2099]

The muted colours in Winter Soldier are fine, but the problem in Winter Soldier like all other Marvel films is the lack of any real blacks. Instead it's grey black and the image looks washed out and less powerful as a result.

[@tashidiaz8915]

I agree with Winter Soldier. The color theme matched that movie perfectly.

[@TomSka]

Fascinating stuff, my dude! More of this

[@patrickhwillems]

Thanks, man! Glad you dug it.

[@williamhoncharuk8449]

You know you've made it big when TomSka compliments you on your video!

[@hakangunay8189]

+Patrick (H) Willems Great video.But the main reason some folks still dislike mcu is jokes/funny moments.Some folks want fully serious,bloody,savage,psychopathic movies.Dardevil tv Show meets with these criteria.Marvel should make movies like daredevil.If disney wont allow any r-rated then marvel should sell defenders,g.rider,blade,m.knight to other studios.Warner is my 1st choice

[@patrickhwillems]

Why the hell should Spider-Man or Avengers movies be "fully serious,bloody,savage,psychopathic" if the comics were never, ever that way?

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

That English fellow looks...familiar...

[@marioehe6819]

When I think about civil war the first thing that comes to my mind is the color grey

[@MorganLeodeMenezes]

Even in the winter soldier movie 😅😅

[@ActiumFilms]

"The camera doesn't matter. But it's going to be better now that they're using a different camera." Kinda contradicting yourself there.

[@gordo_cabron]

Meaning: there has to be a reason for the camera change. AKA they want the look (motion feeling + grading) to be different.

[@ActiumFilms]

Nope, the new camera won't make a noticeable change in colour. And definitely not 'motion feeling' - not sure what you're trying to say there. That new RED has a super high resolution which suits them if they want to reframe shots without losing quality when the film is displayed in 4K on BluRay or 2K in most cinemas.

[@gordo_cabron]

Actium Films WTF. If you rent a different camera only for reframing in these movies you're instantly fired. Do you know anything about sampling? Have your ever used a real filmmaking camera? There's a world between one and another.

[@ActiumFilms]

Yeah, I have. There certainly is a small visual difference between cameras like the Arri Alexa and the various REDs, but it doesn't affect the final image we see in the cinema that much. Using a different camera is not going to make Civil War look like Iron Man. It's all down to the lighting and colour grading, not the camera at all. The camera is just the tool. It's all the processes that give the footage a particular look.

[@gordo_cabron]

OK. So suddenly exposure ranges and camera tests are useless because lighting and color correction. Nothing else to hear from you. Go back to play with your dslr or your cell phone. According to you they can be the same. The audience needs Couch Potato 2! :D

[@ThePointlessBox_]

So that's why they all look the same and you can tell a marvel movie just by the lighting

[@MukhtarAhmed-js2zd]

@@branpod how is it different franchises

[@Sr.Perfil]

marshall branin Actually Captain American and Doctor are the franchise not "different"

[@TheRishijoesanu]

MCU fixed this problem. GOTG2, Ragnarok, Infinity War etc

[@samglover4923]

Ok so how about DC?

[@DeviantDork]

Nope.

[@karangupta1825]

Let's be honest; Snyder's narration is debatable, but you can't deny that his cinematography, colour grading and visual styling is on another level. Watching a film is like reading a book. Watching a Snyder film is like watching a painting. Zack Snyder's Justice League is by far the most beautifully shot comic - book film. Seriously, every fucking shot is like a painting. Followed by BvS, Joker, Watchmen, TDK/TDKR and MoS.

[@bluepearl_22]

I'd also add Birds of Prey & The Suicide Squad (2021) to that list. All those movies are visually & stylistically more appealing than the entire MCU combined imo.

[@aannjjoouu]

agree

[@wolverineiscool7161]

Joker was the BEST looking comic book character film that I had watched in decades, the cinematography and cold grading was on another level!

[@lockandreload]

Snyder should be a cinematographer. His directing is too much slow motion and close-up shots. Like the beginning of ZSJL when he has to show the zoomed in pot/fire, then a zoom out of Bruce next to it, then a zoom in of him stamping it out. And zooming in on the briefcase that Roose Bolton is carrying the entire time he's entering the building. Like we get it Zack, the briefcase is important. All he cares about is making everything look "cool" because that's what his fanboys want.

[@karangupta1825]

@@lockandreload *"God's peace fills your soul."*

[@abhin.v4981]

Now I know why I loved the cinematography of DC more than marvel.

[@gamedude108]

Russian Spy everything is so gray in marvel now. The joker cinematography is way better as so as the old marvel movies they had so much color than now

[@ryanmudd3840]

The new thing they got right...

[@teddng1828]

Russian Spy haha very funny

[@Tekkenandgaming]

romanoff i disagree, most marvel movies look cheap that’s because they are made by a studio that dictates everything and doesn’t let the directors actually make a good looking movie.

[@arslaanahmad9660]

@romanoff laughs on u my kid

[@ZachBobBob]

My ONLY two problems with Marvel has been the music and the flat cinematography. The first Avengers looks like a TV show with an INSANE budget. Looks like Marvel have noticed are trying to fix both. Hiring Giacchino for the music in Doctor Strange and Spiderman and switching camera's seems like a step in right direction.

[@kenlau967]

Zach Gerrity It takes 14 movies to try to fix the problems...

[@ZachBobBob]

ken lau I'm not making excuses for them they should've sorted it out after the first avengers :P But on the flip side change takes time. They have so many movies in production at once and they're coming out thick and fast they probably barely have any down time to work out kinks. They have a formula and they're churning these things out, that studio is just a machine.

[@JohnDoe-ys1vb]

to be fair, the music isn’t that bad, at least the cap movies..

[@ZachBobBob]

John Doe I think it's about half and half. Half have really unforgettable soundtracks and half are really great if you listen to them

[@JohnDoe-ys1vb]

Yeah, but you got to admit that music in the opening to cap 3 was 👌

[@94evangelion]

In hindsight, Whedon can be blamed for lack of colorful visual style for the Marvel movies because his Avengers work feel so 90s-early 00s network TV style in terms of scene composition.

[@ivosamuelgiosadominguez6649]

Actually, when it comes to cinematography I disagree. Yeah, it's still all dull grey and browns, but the shot composition itself is very nice looking and iconic.

[@aolson1111]

The hell are you talking about? The Avengers is way more colorful than modern MCU. One look at Cap's bright blue suit tells you all you need to know. It was the Russos who started this awful desaturation trend with Winter Soldier.

[@lockandreload]

@@aolson1111 this guy gets it. Tired of people sucking off the Russo Bros. They haven't done anything stylistically that doesn't rip off Whedon except worse cinematography.

[@cringekiller348]

Abu Taher dceu stangay spotted Hence the hate. Thor Ragnarok was amazing . Man of shit steel sucked

[@dhanarputra555]

The problem is when the audiences like the movie then possibly become newbie fans, an objective discussion become much harder to be accepted. Just like MCU fans.

[@RicoSeattle]

The biggest problem with the airport fight scene in Civil War was the fact that the location was a freaking airport!! One of the most boring locations you could have for a fight scene. Now don't get me wrong; an airport location can be presented well, even for an action scene, but in Civil War it just looked so boring. I think the location was a bigger issue than the color for that scene specifically.

[@PatrickRatman]

it looks like the gta 5 airport with less stuff happening.

[@Extremexboxplayer]

PhantomPh1re it's a fucking airport...what? did you think there'd be a rollercoaster?

[@adamate141]

Haha, yeah.

[@RainbowDash259]

Why would a team of super heroes that protect people fight in a city or well populated area?

[@notatroll5212]

That is probably the worst excuse I've heard........ the location was boring but the action itself was great. Many locations in action films are boring but if the action itself is entertaining and you're having fun watching then it doesn't matter what the location is.

[@avip8539]

Does no one think this is on purpose? So the characters look more realistic or more connected to this world.

[@Pepingco]

It can also just be lazy post production or really bad producers who want to stay safe and dont want to take a risk with something already gaining a lot of steam. The issue is complicated because the film versions of their movies looked highly saturated and look nothing like any of their digital films after Iron man. So obviously its not AS intentional as people think. Film grading is really expensive and film is also risky when producers rush directors. Digital is cheaper and faster and you only need one grader so it kinda makes sense financially and once you have the grading, its REALLY EASY to cut and paste. But Im just another nerd that needs to shut up lol.

[@calgacusofcaledonia]

Yup, that's exactly what I think....and I like it that way 😬

[@WatchfulVendor]

That's probably part of Marvel's thought process: but being done on purpose doesn't make it look any better, or fit the tone of a marvel movie any better.

[@luiscastilloful]

except theyre not lol. that works for the dark knight trilogy because it was a more realistic take. In this case, you have literal gods, stones that control different aspects of reality, a guy who can shrink and become giant, and most recently, someone who travels through different planes of existence. It would make more sense to have it be just a smidge out of flat colors. not enough to be jarring, just enough to make it seem like a different universe where all that is normal. side note: Batman begins had amazing color grading anytime batman was in a scene. it switched from flat colors to deep contrast depending on whether bruce wayne or batman were on screen. it was subtle, but helped differentiate between the different personas

[@avip8539]

Luis Castillo That's why I said it...to make it more realistic. Not that these heroes are inherently realistic.

[@bedroomwitchtrials6263]

multiverse of madness has some awesome coloring

[@harrypotterfan2536]

That's because it's Sam Raimi who's directing. They finally have a competent director.

[@blokey8]

On a totally non-film related note, this has helped me improve the look of the kayaking videos I make. So thanks for that, Patrick.

[@Godzilla370]

guardians 1&2, thor ragnarok, black panther and now infinity war all look colourful

[@thomasjefferson2813]

BP looks garbage tho

[@surya_0x0]

Eh I felt the graphics in infinity war was kinda lack luster. Especially iron mans suit, it looked so weird. Guardians 2 and ragnarok was really colorful. Felt amazing watching it in IMAX.

[@omarkhamis523]

Suryadas C M I too notice that weird cgi in infinity war. Not saying bad it just seemed weird for me

[@surya_0x0]

@@omarkhamis523 yeah hope the upcoming movies make up better vfx. Maybe its because infinity war was set in a completely artificial environment that it feels lackluster. Then again guardians VFX was way better and it was also in a completely different environment. Still marvel makes cool movies enjoyable to watch ,just another big action movie that's good.

[@omarkhamis523]

Suryadas C M I don't when I saw first the scene on Titan it felt weird the cgi was great in s weird way thanos looked real maybe because it was my first time seeing a movie in imax

[@TickingClocks]

I completely agree. Movies these days are so dull looking. I'm glad that films like Mad Max and Pacific Rim and Force Awakens are so much brighter, and with the success all those movies had, I'm sure other movies (that need it, cause like you said, serious stuff like Spotlight does not need super bright poppy colors) will make the change too. I've been a bit confused by the whole bland look for a while but didn't really know how to word it, so this video does it perfectly!

[@davidw.2791]

Alex Gonzalez DCEU films didn't have this "not black when it should be black" problem that OP of this video pointed out, though.

[@BubuSnow93]

Didn't like Force Awakens at all but if definitely had some great photography, however I'm almost sure they shot it on film.

[@gabrielbriones1530]

Ticking Clocks Fury Road for me is honestly better in Black and White.

[@daegan_ftw]

Disney uses Kodak brand motion picture grade film. Kodak even gets a mention in the credits.

[@cow_tools_]

At least it's not nearly as bad as David Yates' Harry Potter films. "From the fifth book onwards, the story of Harry Potter takes an increasingly darker turn. Therefore, we need to make the films LITERALLY DARK. So dark, you can't even make out the shape of the room on a sunny day." High school cinematography.

[@schwartzy65]

They are perfect on oled...

[@aswadsheikh8051]

ITS KINDA OF HARRYS JOURNEY TO DARKNESS THROUGH OUT ALL THE FILMS...YOU CAN SEE AS EACH MOVIES COLOR GETS DARKER ..THE MOVIE GETS DARKER TOO.

[@schwartzy65]

@@aswadsheikh8051 yea i love how they get darker as the grip of voldemort grows

[@PlaugeofRomano]

We had what I think was either a pirated (filmed in the cinema) or just over copied (burned onto multiple discs) version of Goblet of Fire and it was impossible to see what was going on the entire film. This could be explained away by the low quality, but hell. I grew up in the era of watching pirated anime where the quality was so garbage you could barely read the subs and I still could see what was happening.

[@Water_Me_Loan]

After watching this video, I posted a similar video about color correcting the Marvel Movies on Reddit & I got Permanently Banned from the Marvel Studios Subreddit. Thanks for that idea, Patrick.

[@Automatik234]

Color grading seriously became a problem. Since colors and lighting in most don't look believable anymore, cgi effects look more fake and the "wow factor" just goes away.

[@HooverBeast]

who the fuck cares? thats what separates the best from the rest

[@Automatik234]

HooverBeast Didn't seem to understand what I wanted to say...

[@tasherratt]

I have to agree the suspension of disbelief that the audience has to put into a film, as our part of the artistic process has become an increasing issue with modern excessive colour grading. Just look at the Jurassic franchise for a perfect example. The original was shot on film and has a natural colour balance, World was shot digitally and over graded in post, the result was a less engaging visual effect. It is reminiscing of Spector’s wall of sound in the 60s or autotune, within a style it has a place but over use results in an unsatisfying artificial feeling. Marvel have been trying to sell the MCU as a real world rather than a comic book cartoon, it is a stylistic choice that has worked for them.

[@ItsNotGeorgeItsSjors]

Automatik It's kinda like what the musicindustry does with the likes of cher and britney spears, when you mess too much with the original, the fact that it's fake becomes too obvious

[@Automatik234]

I don't mean like exended landsapes. But stuff like Spaceships, fictional creatures and collapsing buildings just kinda "don't feel real" anymore.

[@ShovelChef]

Can you recommend a video essay about movie scores? Could be MCU, action, or scoring in general.

[@ShovelChef]

But I'm curious what you've seen about MCU music, since you mentioned it. I searched briefly, but haven't found a solid hit on that subject yet.

[@patrickhwillems]

This one by Tony Zhou: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bafJop6srLxlnNU And the response by Dan Golding: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5S7pHtubb2fga8 ...are both great and absolutely worth watching.

[@ShovelChef]

Ohhh, I suspected that Tony Zhou vid, but I guess I expected a catchier title, more like yours. ;) Thanks very much!

[@patrickhwillems]

No problem!

[@jerryscanas]

You forgot The Hulk in the early Marvel cannon the one with Edward Norton as lead

[@dantan1249]

Yeah. I prefer the more vibrant image. It’s more exciting to look at. Feels more premium. The dull one makes everything look like it takes place on Tuesday. Lol

[@unknown_individual7050]

I feel like that's often what movies like civil war and phase 2/3 are aiming for tbh. They want to make it seem like it's actually set in the world where you're not normally getting blue skies and perfect sunsets all the time. Whether you like that or not is up to you but I do feel that this was intentional.

[@dantan1249]

@@unknown_individual7050 I agree. I’m sure it’s intentional. It’s just not visually appealing to me. I like the groundedness but it doesn’t look like real life. It feels like I’m missing some of my color vision. There always seems to be an overcast even when there isn’t. I also think it’s the low contrast as well. It looks very flat but not in a Japanese art way. Not enough contrast between lights and darks.

[@wacksonjittemore4013]

​@@dantan1249 His color corrections remind me of early 2000s Transformers, X-Men, Daredevil, etc. Maybe Marvel's intention was looking different from most action/superhero movies of the time? That's the weird thing to me. He's like "was Marvel too stupid to use this color grading?" The same color grading that three whole Fast & Furious sequels had used before Iron Man came out. Vibrant, yeah, but definitely stale.

[@dantan1249]

@@wacksonjittemore4013 its less sensory. we aren't being aloud to see full contrast. to me its annoying. I appreciate innovation but this takes away more than it adds. I don't want early 2000s movies replicated but why take away the good qualities? idk if you wear glasses but it gives me the sensation of having slightly dirty glasses. 😂 it doesnt have to be michael bay levels but to me the current movies are too dingy. though i would say it worked in winter soldier.

[@LeoDas411]

Amazing Spiderman 2 colour grading is one of Marvel's best.

[@Alice-me2qk]

Marvel Studios didn't produce the Amazing Spider-Man films just the ones starring Tom Holland.

[@SamuelBilodeau]

Hi, professional colorist here. Sorry to get a little pedantic but your black value argument is actually severely flawed. Specifically what you measured with the eye dropper was the legal black value (6.25%, or digital code 16 on an 8 bit scale) which is used in video files in the REC 709 color primaries intended for television and theater, as opposed to the full scale black value 0% which is used on computer screens. While I agree that they don't use a very strong contrast curve, I can tell you that the primary thing you're seeing wrt black points is a technical issue between improper standards conversions rather than a colorist's decision. I've seen moderate to severe issues with this not only in my own footage misbehaving between my own systems, but also between different quality renders on KZbin, whether im streaming to my tv or not. Worse than that, sometimes the versions on iTunes or Netflix or Blu-ray are all different in how they're presented, depending on whether the right metadata flags are present in the stream or not. Yes, colorists can and do make decisions about black points, but when you're dealing with a studio like marvel there are other possible points of failure in the image distribution pipeline that the film goes through. Don't be so hasty to judge - you've just accidentally peaked into the messy world of video standards errors

[@redplanet76]

yup. agreed.

[@Lily.valkyrie]

woah

[@monocore]

What about "it was first used in 'O brother where art thou'." WTF is he talking about.

[@redplanet76]

Sergio Lugo color grading has been used for decades but was primarily achieved as a chemical process. You of course could use certain filters on the camera to shift the look. Oh brother where art thou wasn't the first film graded but it's considered the first feature length film to be digitally colored from front to back through the "digital intermediate" process, which is what we use today... although we use much better and much less expensive tools than they had obviously.

[@ozgruntsyd4281]

Not quite correct. PAL video had a black value of 0. NTSC had the 6.25% value which is one of the reasons a lot of countries hated the look of it (that and their power supplies ran at 50hz not 60hz). So I take it you are an 'old' professional colourist and still abide by the rules from the analogue days. Everything is digital now right through to the screen so there is no need to even consider the nasty limits imposed on us by analogue technologies of yesteryear.

[@jmkand]

i always kind of assumed that they toned down the colours because having a more realistic colour scheme (as opposed to the overly saturated one in most comics, especially the old ones) was a countermeasure to superhero movies not being taken seriously. i feel like the superhero movie genre was only recently recognised as a respectable, *adult* genre, so the MCU is still on that dull palette because it makes cap's bright blue onesie look less silly; less "disney's hercules"... but idk

[@MarkBrownBranding]

Completely agree with this. Doubt it's by chance

[@TheFahmi97]

Agree. They should be more vibrant with Guardians though, because that films don't need to be taken too seriously and the theme is more lighter. But for the earth based heroes they should stick with it.

[@cheekycchoco8699]

Rami's spiderman says hello

[@hijodelsoldeoriente]

Same thoughts.

[@KaizerMan]

Yeah that’s probably why, and then ever since then it’s literally been a copy & paste idea because they just want the unison with how the movies visually look I do think though they should split between which ones have the grounded dull look & which have the more cartoonish comic look. Like GotG, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, Thor and the other more mystical, cosmic & space themed ones can embrace the comic outlandishness. Then more realistic ones like Captain America, Black Panther, Iron-Man, etc are fine to have more muted, subtle colour grading. That’s just my view anyway

[@Krillinish2]

After Endgame perhaps the answer has been “oh we’re gonna time travel to the old movies so we had to make them look the same” this whole time.

[@MorganLeodeMenezes]

Bwahahahahahah 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@danieljohns1318]

Can you do an update now that Endgame and many other movies have come out?

[@Andre_Jordan]

Thanos will bring color grading.

[@xfalsetruth06x]

I think they really turned a corner with Homecoming, Ragnarok and the upcoming Black Panther

[@user-tx6np2cm9m]

xfalsetruth06x well BP came out and the last fight scene looked absolute garbage. It looked like I was watching CW’s The Flash

[@gabrielathebluealien1247]

true

[@SpectrumCinemax]

Very Merry Marauder We are talking about colors here not VFX

[@grinsplit444]

@@croslee how?

[@alfa01spotivo]

lol black panther

[@izzyhope3810]

I personaly LOVE saturated colors, even if it does look a bit wrong, and I actually color graded civil war for my first time watching it, and I'm planing to increase saturation for (mostly) every movie I watch from now on

[@westonkouryfan69]

im late but, mad max: fury road’s and the umbrella acacdemy’s colors are so jsksksks i love them

[@Mysikrysa]

Mad Max also didn´t overuse the CGI. The explosions were real, the wasteland was real, the cars were real... They just used CGI to merge together the scenes filmed separately.

[@noobmaster1186]

@@Mysikrysa probably one of my favorite movies

[@brettdomenick]

why did the camera have to be named Alexa? you kept waking up my echo!

[@killarafael7744]

xD

[@gownerjones2]

If I said "Alexa, order 10 iPhone 7s please." in a video, would the Echo just do that without asking?

[@brettdomenick]

HOLyPumpgun | Gaming I don't have ordering setup, but I believe there is some type of confirmation where it will say a price and you have to say yes. Could also cancel it.

[@gownerjones2]

Brett Domenick Oh okay, interesting.

[@colvinang2684]

In defends, Alexa camera came out fway before Echo.

[@magnumcornetto]

This problem is really, really obvious in Age of Ultron. That's by far the ugliest movie of the bunch.

[@simonegreco1958]

I'd say Civil War...point of view, I guess

[@elledy92]

+De Nitpichers Civil War is at least entertaining. Age of Ultron is really bland.

[@kenlau967]

Winter soldier and Civil War are entertaining but they just look like TV show with lots of CGI...quite ugly

[@mathewrealfan]

Well, bullshit....

[@TooFatTooFurious]

I strongy disagree. Age of Ultron was shot by the same guy, who shot Guardians. And I think it makes better use of shadows, then most Marvel movies do. There are also nice shots here and there. Like, I really love that shot where they are all devastated on their plane after fight with Scarlet Witch

[@TesserId]

Thank you. I remember how pissed off I was back when the dynamic range of T.V.'s was so horrifically bad that every horror movie with lots of black scenes was virtually unwatchable. If you adjusted the contrast and brightness to where you could see what was going on in the black portions, you'd get a terrible gray mess. But, if you adjusted the contrast and brightness to where it was appropriately dark, those key scene elements would disappear into black. So, yeah; gray only has virtue where it properly brings the viewer into a sense of reality. (BTW, loved your vid on Dick Tracy.)

[@Ponk_80]

They definitely lack color and contrast, it constantly looks like it was shot on an overcast day.

[@jarosbodytko6462]

Huh, funny how I never noticed that, but once pointed out, it is fairly obvious. Although I have to say that it fits movies like Winter soldier and Civil War better, than let's say Ant-Man, and it actually works into their advantage. But it's true that it probably shouldn't have been used on every movie since they stopped shooting on film, just the ones with a more realistic undertone while the lighter movies would've benefitted from a more colorful approach. It doesn't make the movies ugly per sebut I can definitely see your point.

[@Yatsura2]

Cant see how it does give them an advantage. Those movies are everything but realistic and dont want to be. Thats not a bad thing. Nobody wants to see _"realistic superhero fights"_. The best fights in comics were always those best drawn with good contrasts and colors. Those are comic movies, so they should do the same.

[@jarosbodytko6462]

Yatsura2 Maybe 'realistic' is the wrong word here. I guess I mean it gives the movies more gravitas, subtly suggesting there's more at stake than just the classic 'good guy vs bad guy and all is well at the end'-thing. The more colorful (in the broader sense of the word) movies are the ones like Iron Man, Ant-Man, etc... that stand on their own while the movies that are greyer are the movies that foreshadow a bigger plot. That's why I think those movies benefit more from that color pallet, or lack thereof. Don't know if that makes sense, but it comes across that way to me. Don't get me wrong, I love the very comic-y feel that the Marvel movies have. Not everything needs to be The Dark Knight.

[@sydnehan477]

I agree--I think the Russo Bros were specifically going for a more grounded, realistic look in TWS because of the tone shift between 1940's Captain America and modern-day Captain America. The action and political plot lines became much more grounded in realism starting with TWS too, so for the CapAm series, I think the coloring is fine. But I agree with you that lighter MCU titles like Guardians and Ant-Man could've gone with the more comicbook-like contrast and color.

[@ElBandito]

First thing I do before I upload pictures online is to increase their vibrance. More colors always made those picture look better.

[@isaac_alexander_v]

Film > digital

[@Cleisthenes607]

Say what you want about DC films but they at least have texture and a tone. It might not be pretty being that Snyder has an ugly aesthetic but at least its not flat like Marvel. Watching Dune recently reminded me how important color grading and cinematography is. Go and watch the whimsical 90s sci fi The Fifth Element to see what Marvel could do if it actually cared rather than mass producing the same superhero film again and again. Go look at the trailer for The Batman and see how interesting the tone and colors are in that, the dark but vibrant reds and blacks. So much more visually interesting than anything Marvel have ever done.

[@SKyrim190]

Honestly, I know taste is subjective blablabla, but what you showed as an improvement for me was only a highly saturated image.

[@Lyw1234567890]

Luiz Sarchis lol yeah I agree, but desaturating the yellow in the shots would easily fix that problem. Saturating an image often results in what looks like too much yellow, so desaturating the yellow should do

[@SKyrim190]

Yes, kind of...I agree that using only a "normal world" scale is boring and flat, but just upping the saturation is not great either. The color scheme of the movie should be meaningful to the story being told. So an Iron Man movie can have a different look when compared to an Ant-Man. Only saturating everything is not a solution. However, I understand that this was quickly done just to prove a point and Marvel has infinitely more resources than KZbin guy. I just think some of them did not look THAT good...

[@Bakron97]

It was something he did in 10 seconds to just show a point. Obviously it would look better if the studio actually put effort into adding some color and black value to their shots

[@srvisgod88]

Lisa Wang exactly

[@FinalGrade]

Bakron When making an entire video to complain about the color itself you should spend more then 10 seconds to prove a point. It should have been better. He knows better. Also by that logic you could accuse him of doing the very thing that he is blaming Marvel movies for.

[@johng7410]

I like the flat look, because it makes it more "real". Marvel has fantastical characters and (unlike DC) the movies tend to be very funny and tongue in cheek. So having the flat look I think helps ad realism to the otherwise less serious parts of the movie.

[@geneparmesan8748]

I can definitely see how it would help characters like Iron Man or Captain America, who are very inherently "cartoonish" and would never blend into the real world. I'd be interested in more colour saturation in Guardians, though, because that movie was much sillier and didn't try to be so realistic. And I don't know if you could saturate specific cells, but ignoring the saturation on godlike characters like Thor or Loki would probably be a cool effect (because then the gods would be deeper colours than everyone else, underscoring the fact that they're from another dimension).

[@Studio2770]

But the comics aren't flat.....

[@Sardious]

But it's not just people who buy comics that watch the movies. Making it seem more "real" color wise keeps the audience from thinking "no way that couldn't happen" during the scene itself. Actually very few people buy comics compared to how many watch the movies. Base the idea off the comic, but different medium and different audience so don't just copy the pop style of the comic.

[@melancholyentertainment]

+Sardious If someone is not into comic books, then why the hell are they watching a comic book film?

[@geneparmesan8748]

Mysterious Enigma that's the way comic book films approached things in the early 2000's. But ever since the Dark Knight brought mainstream audiences, comic book movies have really forged a new, more grounded identity. Generally speaking, comics are a more stylized medium, whereas movies are more muted and conservative in what they show. If you want examples of movies that adopt the look of comics: Kick Ass, 300, Watchmen.

[@azmihakam]

I think its just a matter of preferences. Tbh i kinda like the winter soldier colour back then. Doesn't try to be over cinematic look but keep it realistic with cool tone

[@dantan1249]

Azmi Hakam I only like the color for that particular movie. I prefer more vibrancy. I hate that dusty overcast look. I feel like I’m not seeing everything because I’m used to seeing more color in real life. It’s just too desaturated.

[@TheJupiteL]

It works because the movie is somewhat grounded to reality. When you have a green giant and flying robots, I think the more vibrant color would look better.

[@alfa01spotivo]

its dull. Its a comic book movie, can I have some vibrant colors Marvel?

[@aidandaniell5859]

They fixed this problem with GOTG 2 and every movie after that

[@SublimeTrickaz]

Captain Marvel looked ugly as hell

[@TheSlimmshadyy]

@@SublimeTrickaz what about Endgame trailer ?

[@aidandaniell5859]

@@SublimeTrickaz It had saturated color to it, unlike the older films

[@slipstream3903]

Homecoming, Ragnarok (parts not on sakaar) most of black panther, Infinity War (Non IMAX versions), Ant-Man and the wasp, Captain Marvel, and Spider-Man far from home all look fucking bland and dull. There's hardly any color to them. Their flat, dull gray, and hardly any color to them. DC to all their faults at least use color, shadows, and layers to create powerful images. Something the MCU hasn't done in general. But. Endgame looks great in terms of color

[@bryannepeguero6747]

Brotien Shake Captain marvel looks awful

[@aaronhinton3446]

FINALLY I understand the reason why I always thought that airport scene was a bit 'eh' for me

[@jakepetergaming]

This makes sense. I love to add a bit of color to my videos as well to make them pop and I didn't understand why more people don't.

[@lukeroughan4658]

jakepeter *Colour

[@rushverl]

Luke Roughan In America Color is the correct spelling, so no need to correct him

[@rushverl]

Luke Roughan In America Color is the correct spelling, so no need to correct him

[@ActiumFilms]

But your videos are all of videogames. You don't have actual camera footage to grade. So...are you saturating already existing game footage??

[@jakepetergaming]

Actium Films I was not talking about videos I post on this channel, I probably could have made myself more clear there. I would not color grade games.

[@TzetziLazarov]

I am a pro grader, I liked your accurate video. My best guess is, they grade for 10bit monitors that can display HDR color depth. and so it looks good on THEIR HDR monitors, but they did not want to create a side grade for NON-HDR monitors, due to time constrain. That is my professional opinion, bc I have worked in that industry.

[@Kevin66442]

This video is about 7 years, and still the problems are persistent. Just watch the Deadpool e Wolverine trailer.

[@rhinuu045]

it got better in some movies like shang chi, bp2, and gotg 3

[@WL1264]

No overral it got better.

[@kingX777]

Ok now I understand why it looks so off to me. Weird more people haven’t noticed this. When I was watching civil war, throughout the whole movie all I kept thinking is “something looks bland, or that it looks cheap somehow”.

[@starkingbiker]

kingX777 YES!

[@surya_0x0]

Yeah you are right even I felt something was bland when I saw civil war. But the movie was quite interesting to watch that I forgot about it.

[@xarityfan4370]

Same

[@saretgnasoh7351]

SAME

[@matijalukovic727]

I dont why, I think civil war looked amazing and I think other color cheapen the look

[@kaylynbourbeau9272]

gotg2's visuals were honestly stunning imo

[@tomascanevaro4292]

The movie was fucking awsome, and i'm of the few who think its probably even better than the first

[@brochodoce5006]

I literally saw it last night and I think the visuals were awesome but it was a very corny movie. Wasn't bad at all but it wasn't good as the first one

[@blackham7]

It was good visually but I found that the story of the first was much better than the second

[@preretconbeyonder1372]

kaylyn bourbeau to bad the movie was garabge

[@willmelbourne]

IMAX 70mm looks the best, but is an absolute pain to shoot with and is extremely expensive.

[@caylya7869]

It’s kinda sad a person at home can make the scene look better than the original Edit: also marvel has to stop over using cgi for everything

[@ezgic.7856]

These color theory/grading videos are so enyojable. I love them

[@umangkayastha7422]

This video made me realize that Marvel's color grading is same in all of its movies, full flat and low contrast

[@henriquefernandes3447]

Thank God Guardians of the Galaxy Vol.2 fixes that problem.

[@umangkayastha7422]

Henrique Fernandes Yeah!!

[@orphious885]

Umang Kayastha the earth only has one sun. Why would natural outdoor sunlight in one movie look completely different from outdoor sunlight in a different same-world movie, besides the scenery.

[@Thepunchdownking]

Umang Kayastha except gotg2

[@umangkayastha7422]

Da White boy 503 yup! It's a progress!

[@samcarpenter_]

Can you just recolour all of Civil War so I can watch it again please

[@DaniTheDog.]

DC actually uses an effect that is simillar to the one he applied, and yet, look much darker soooo .. And as he said, the thing is not to make the colours flashier, but make the shadows darker :) Which is a thing you might not like, but that doesn't means it's Lame, buddy

[@NotQuiteFirst]

Just crank up the contrast on your monitor and it will pretty much look like that

[@raidenthenctzenwithinsomni4961]

I think despite GOTG2 fixing the issue, Infinity War and Endgame still looked too dull. Edit: every movie after GOTG2 except maybe Ragna-no scratch that, even Ragnarok.

[@Schnyger]

I remember when the first Avengers and The Dark Knight Rises came out months apart, and visually speaking, Avengers looked like it was shot on a smartphone compared to DKR. I love Avengers, but the IMAX cameras and post-production from Nolan's team embarrasses its visuals.

[@archib0ld1]

You forgot to mention that Marvel has forgettable villians as well besides Loki.

[@RotA-Kaleido]

It wasn't a criticism on the content of the movies, dude...

[@archib0ld1]

+Kaleido Games Last time I checked, movie scores and gradients were considered part of the movie...dude...

[@hcxwj]

Sensible Bear he said "it wasn't a criticism on the content of the movies, dude..." meaning as in this video was literally just looks based criticism, not movie based.

[@archib0ld1]

TOY0BOY0 I'm aware of this. However, in the video Phillips says his two major issues with Marvel's approach is: 1) the generic unmemorable scores and 2) the color grading. Phillips did not say "my two major look-based issues", he simply said their *general* problems with their approach. My original post was simply me introducing a third major issue that i felt isn't addressed enough, the forgettable villains. The guy I replied to must have misunderstood the context of my comment.

[@agrippa.the.cosmonaut-wiz]

The point of this video wasn't to be nitpicky on MARVEL, you moron.

[@gyuriousjang563]

I think it's their way of making the films seem more realistic and mature instead of doing that on the scripts. Its still light hearted and easy to watch for the masses without losing its seriousness as a superhero movie. Otherwise It'll just become a kid's movie.

[@MrConstantine02]

What if I told you..... they already are "kids movies", that just happen to be watched by adults and teenagers too?

[@BlazingOwnager]

I'd tell you that you were probably wrong since most movies with the primary focus being children don't include things like images of someone's mother having her throat crushed. Not saying they're super serious, but I am saying they're targeting the same crossover audience as, say, Indiana Jones. Which were loved by many kids, but not really kids movies.

[@sabinea.4532]

BlazingOwnager on point!!

[@maximeteppe7627]

those are not serious movies, not by a long shot. And the music videos, or movies like it follows and some parts of the neon demon have a better use of color within the restrains of the muted look. And i feel the "flattened" look fits for meditative movies, not fast action movies, not even action thrillers.

[@oniyoda]

So lion king isn't a kids movie cause mufasa dies?

[@stallonedev7056]

I guess the only movie had this issue was Civil War as it was really flat. Avengers the first one is still best for colour.

[@ighr7596]

Snehil Shrey and it also has a terrible lighting

[@supersmashphones1235]

It has sitcom lighting my dude, no aesthetic

[@mongverongpi2991]

Though not perfect, first Avengers had a very comic booky look and I love it!

[@roopnarinedeonarine4417]

Dispite Enternals having kind of a blane story the cinematography looks amazing and really stands out

[@xovAvox]

Now that you pointed it out, it actually really frustrates me lol

[@transformersloverjon]

10/10 One person had one very specific opinion, created a video supposing his opinion as fact, and now you believe it.

[@Masterchief0521]

there's no opinion. This is how Marvel's movies have no proper black values, you can't argue with that.

[@PermanentHigh]

avox. Civil War made it even more obvious. The lack of tint made it look like trash.

[@IsaacPurpleguy]

avox. lol

[@transformersloverjon]

Big Baby Blue Eyes No, this video is for the sake of presenting an assessment on the fact that Marvel films have that characteristic. It's an opinion piece that uses that specific piece of information, but supposes that because that's happening, Marvel films are "ugly." "Ugly" is a subjective term. Duh.

[@Skrenja]

I agreed with you 100% untill you said RED has a more vibrant image than alexas do. Alexas have a better track record over RED in Hollywood. Not saying RED sucks by any means, just saying there have been many great looking movies shot on ARRI digital cameras. ALEXA used to be the go to camera in hollywood productions with RED being an afterthought, although this has changed in the last few years. Once the Alexa 65 is adopted more widely, I think arri will come back out on top. The problem is Arri doesn't seem to care that much about resolution which is what alot of people flock to. I can't even imagine the systems Marvel will need to render and edit 8k weapon footage. What a nightmare.

[@patrickhwillems]

Oh yeah, in no way do I think RED cameras are better, I'm just saying that Alexa footage shot in Log-C seems to be way more difficult to grade if you want anything other than the really flat look.

[@hottestdudeout]

Agreed - I believe that Skyfall was actually shot on an Arri, and it looks downright stunning.

[@evion223]

Uncle Benja Now this is a wild guess, but there's a good chance that they wanted these films to have a similar look. This look worked for them for years, not saying this look is necessary but that they wanted to switch the tone when it matter (Guardians perfect Time). This is a annoying comparison but when I had to make a portfolio of artwork (Acrylic paintings) I was guided in such a way.

[@Skrenja]

Sorry I am Canadian, I should have said Colour, knew it would piss people off either way.

[@razlatkin]

I am currently grading films that have been shot on Alexa. They're honestly not that difficult to grade. It's just that when everything about a movie is great, sometimes things are overlooked. sadly the colour grading is one of the things for this one

[@TheMagicRat]

Counter-point: Marvel used a more muted palette to convince the average movie-goer that what they're watching is real. Once they acquired a huge following they went balls-to-the-wall with colours.

[@cosmicman6201]

I know how to explain this in three words Quantity over quality

[@anthonyvillanueva5226]

I came back to this vid after seeing Guardians 2, and I agree. The color grading is much better in that film.

[@cheddargt]

Yes! Me too!

[@typingnoises]

FINALLY! A comment about Gotg Vol. 2! Color grading in that movie is WAY better!

[@anthonyvillanueva5226]

GotG is my favorite MCU film, but it looks as colorful as a concrete block. I remembered this vid when I saw GotG Vol.2, and though of course far from a perfect film, it was a much more colorful film.

[@transformersloverjon]

"Better."

[@roshieifra]

Anthony Villanueva I have some hope for thor ragnarok.

[@DarthHater100]

He didn't really answer the question, but I know the answer: 3D. The film makers actually address this in special features/commentary. . . how they've "mastered" lighting and grading for 3D. That is why they have brighter black levels and even lighting, to make up for the darkening-effect of 3D glasses. And overly colorful images can cause crosstalk on some LCD active displays, which is likely what they are using for playback when shooting digital. Marvel has some of the least problematic 3D and it is totally because of the way they've chosen to light and color grade their movies. I think if you go back and look at the grading and lighting, you will see the Avengers look emerging when they began doing movies in 3D. If you don't like it though, or you're not watching in 3D, just adjust your TV's settings. . . crank the saturation and lower the brightness and voila! Really, I think they should do two different masters, one for glasses on/3D, one for glasses off/2D.

[@ratnadeepsharma964]

DarthHater100 yep i think i agree

[@luckyowl10]

DarthHater100 it would be great to have a 3D and a 2D master, but that would spike the expenses significantly ...

[@JimWu213]

DarthHater100 I thought they always have different masters for different screens. same for Blu-ray releases. James Cameron also mentioned that they did different masters for different screens.

[@FueledbyAdrenaline17]

DarthHater100 This makes sense, now I get it...

[@jeromequinn214]

I don't think that's the issue. Beauty and the Beast, Kong: Skull Island, and Ghost in the Shell 2017, especially the GitS, have just as good, if not better 3D than the MCU (BB having the best), without looking grey. GitS even takes place during the night half the time and it sure doesn't have this problem. Shit, Avatar, the gold standard for 3D, doesn't have this problem. I truly doubt filmmakers deliberately sacrifice their aesthetics just for 5% of the showings that are in 3D. It's that sarcastic remark from the video that's probably the reason: people like flat looking because they're used to it from every single other media. It's much easier to look at, especially when scenes at night and at day have the same look, the transition doesn't hurt the eyes. And now with people bitching about the DCEU looking too dark, they doubled down on this: the recent Spider-Man Homecoming footage, and even Guardians 2 to an extent, have their saturation crancked up to an absurd degree, to the point that New York is bathed in sunlight as if it has a beach, while not fixing the contrast at all. It doesn't help that Thor: Ragnarok and Black Panther had the exact same look either.

[@bladewolflq-84i86]

No Way Home third final act not only looked ugly but also thr CGI looked unfinished as hell, the part when Garfield catch MJ was out of a direct to TV early 00s series, its really funny that both Tobey and Andrew Spider Man movies look way better than a tentpole 2021 Marvel movie despite them being 20 years old (SM2) or 8 years old (ASM2).

[@rinfinity930]

It sucks when you consider the amount of money they make off of these movies, they say they are bent on producing quality stuff and pushing these movies to win OSCARS!! 😂 that it's astonishing seeing such things.

[@johnjohnson-qb8gd]

Spider-man: No Way Home has the best CGI out of any Spider-Man film.

[@Alvacka97]

No Way Home is beautifully shot

[@jimbeam2299]

@@johnjohnson-qb8gd what? Hell no it doesn’t.

[@fonkysahb3352]

I thing I really dislike in the Avengers movies is most of the sceneries have no texture. Having bright lights everywhere and lens flare doesn't help.

[@rebelarcade4183]

I always felt something was off. Thanks for bringing it up. Either we're both just persnickety nerds of you're dead-on right.

[@jmiquelmb]

Rebel Arcade Inc. Totally agree. Also, I'm not half as knowledgeable as some people here, but it also seemed to me that the camera work and settings are always so uncreative. Marvel/Disney seems to care more about having a prefect assembly line of samey movies than anything else. It's the "that will do" philosophy

[@jmiquelmb]

***** Why I'm wrong, if I can know?

[@jmiquelmb]

***** Nice point, you dismantled all my arguments

[@jmiquelmb]

***** Oh, this is not the exact expression? I'm sorry, English is not my first language. How stupid of me to not be born on an English speaking country. We can discuss movies in Spanish, Catalan or French, if you prefer. Yes, you're right. My opinion in movies is wrong because I don't speak exactly like a native. You're not a fanboy at all

[@Bakron97]

+jmiquelmb Nah man don't worry you were spot on. "that will do" is the right expression for what you were going for. Hes just an idiot

[@buttersbeans6929]

Guardians of the galaxy looked pretty to me

[@russellh6152]

Christian Cummings vol 2 for sure

[@trevorriches136]

Fun fact: all the Kathmandu scenes in the first Doctor Strange film were shot on 35mm. Same with certain shots in Avengers 2012. So not *ALL* Marvel films between Captain America 1 and GotG Vol. 2 were shot digitally.

[@hwd71]

So people who bought an OLED tv can admire the deeper grays, makes perfect sense.

[@JackWolf10]

I found this video by searching "Movies need more colour". I'm glad to see there's someone out there with a similar feeling. There's something about older films and their colour palettes that I just adore. Of course there are always exceptions, and certain movies can use a less colourful look to its advantage. However films like the Avengers were meant to be big, fun, over-the-top superhero flicks. So I think a more colourful look would compliment them greatly. If I ever make a film I'd want to make sure I use colour effectively.

[@aarOuOn]

Saw this video on my feed and insta clicked. Marvel movies are so gray they make me wanna fall asleep

[@lewiswhyte3930]

watch only god forgives or anything by refn for colour

[@sebcubille]

only god forgives has some of the best cinematography I've ever seen in a movie, yet it's a terrible movie

[@PauLtus_B]

+lewis whyte I'd say watch Drive then. Only God Forgives is pretty hard to like.

[@SS-hd5jx]

i agree, although i never really thought about it before. movies could definitely use more color, i think thats why i enjoy animated films ;p