Why Do Marvel's Movies Look Kind of Ugly? (video essay)

[@patrickhwillems]

YES, I REALIZE I FORGOT THE INCREDIBLE HULK

[@philleotardo7688]

lel

[@salamilofi9323]

Patrick (H) Willems didn't we all?

[@anishstark3232]

Patrick (H) Willems fuck u

[@kevinvu5432]

Patrick (H) Willems why do you imply the idea of cameras being the problem (with no proper evidence) and then exact it by going back to your issue and then have hope because of the camera......youre very inconsistent in this video or didn't explain your correlation properly. I like the movies...But I also feel like they do it intentionally due to trying to make all the films feel like they fit together. I know it's not the best choice but looks like it was intentional.

[@cohengiesbrecht]

Personally, I think the color grading is just fine. In fact, I think they did it just right, and that we still got the feeling of what Marvel wants us to feel. Ether way, great video!

[@DogWick]

Even The Dark Knight Trilogy which had a gritty realistic tone had more colour and much better lighting than Avenger age of ultron for example

[@tm4066]

Wally Pfister always did a great job creating a subtle but vibrant color palette for the trilogy: Orange/Brown for Begins, Blue/Silver for TDK, Black/Vivid White for Rises. Also helped tremendously that there was no digital intermediate when it came to color correction, all old school color timing for the entire reel(s).

[@DogWick]

Bryan Song All movies that are shot on film usually look miles better than digital cameras like Interstellar, Spectre, The Hateful Eight and Star Wars The Force Awakens etc though some movies shot digitally in recent years look amazing like Skyfall, Mad Max Fury Road and The Martian I always knew something was odd about the way marvel movies looked

[@tm4066]

Interstellar and Hateful Eight are great examples of filmmakers working with the tools they have and just letting the film stocks speak for themselves. I still look at Drive (2011) as THE best usage of digital to print examples. Was blown away when I found that movie was shot on digital (although recorded to HD-cam). The wide range of colors on that film really convinced me digital could go head to head with film. Years after that initial movement we're at a time where desaturated films are king, both studio and indie ones unfortunately.

[@DogWick]

Bryan Song Even TV shows like Stranger Things looked amazing not sure if they used film stocks or digital cameras

[@tm4066]

I just took a look at their imdb tech specs page and see they shoot the show on Red Dragon cams. Their colorist does a great job on the show though, really interesting dynamic range of colors. I read that he also did color for Gladiator and Avatar. Awesome show with awesome visuals.

[@1080TJ]

I've seen people describe Marvel movies as "bright and colorful" and could never understand what they were talking about. When you said "muddy concrete" and "empty parking lot" it felt like someone had finally put my thoughts into words. You managed to explain why the set pieces in Doctor Strange look so tame compared to similar ones in Inception or The Matrix. It also helps explain why Iron Man 1 remains my favorite Marvel film - if nothing else, it's at least exciting to look at.

[@bewaretheconficker]

Nice profile picture- St. Vincent is the shit!

[@simonegreco1958]

Well, the Avengers is somewhat colourful...thanks to the characters

[@1000aaronaaronaaron]

marvel does have great colors. *especially* doctor strange. and inception and matrix had nothing like doctor strange. all you people just repeat each other. smh have fun lying to yourselves

[@simonegreco1958]

***** Are we not allowed to criticize?

[@TK0S3]

Doctor Strange looks tame compared to Inception ? hahahahahaha. Ok then.

[@ScratchingCatto]

This is one of those things you don't notice until somebody points it out and then you're never able to unsee it again.

[@aechman67]

Yea

[@woodycook3133]

Zenith Mate i'm pretty sure that Marvel saw this video then went out of their way to make gardians 2 and thor ragnorock the most colourful things ever

[@NjBou]

So true I lowkey wish I never saw this hahahah

[@itzpsey]

Zenith ikr.

[@MrBunny53]

nah I've always noticed their movies lacked proper color which makes it look normal and one dimensional.

[@boomerfunnyjimgaffigan4998]

yeah, I laughed really hard when u said that civil war looked like an "empty parking lot." And yeah, all of marvels movies look too grey or light and there's very little saturation. great video, well narrated, excellent points made. and funny.

[@MorganLeodeMenezes]

The winter Soldier movie's colour grading also looks similar to civil war but the only difference is it works for winter Soldier movie because it is a total spy thriller/political thriller movie that's why it works in winter Soldier

[@MorganLeodeMenezes]

Have you noticed MCU phase 2 most of the movies had grey colour grading

[@josephwoo69]

Holy shit i never realized how gray it actually is. The sky is barely even blue in marvel movies, wtf

[@MildeAmasoj]

I noticed how gray the movies were in Age of Ultron and Civil War, but I blamed it on the darkness of Phase 2 and 3. This is very cool. In Thor 3 they increased the saturation A LOT. I don't know about the black though.

[@codemperor97]

Yeah, couldn't agree more! I just realized it as well

[@elit34life53]

exactly

[@swegbruh199]

atleast it isnt always night looking, like dc

[@gc3k]

After Avengers 1 almost all of these movies look flat

[@KingOfKingz819]

This is essentially my biggest problem with the MCU. Everything looks the same and the "same" is straight up bland. The content of the films themselves are hit or miss for me but even the hits suffer from this.

[@grimsobad8545]

I feel like falcon and the winter soldier looks much better

[@ian3087]

Because they are making it look like in the same universe.

[@burgermind802]

Ian that is not a good excuse

[@veenajoshua9461]

The movies are also the same. Except winter soldier

[@TRUMP_2024_PREZ]

@@veenajoshua9461 MCU LOW QUALITY CINEMA AND LOW QUALITY COLOR GRADING...AND ONSLAUGHT OF CRINGEWORHTY CHILDISH COMEDY #FACTS

[@ranger8606]

at first i was confused because i never saw anything wrong with the visuals, but then i saw the side-by-side part and it was a drastic change. now im never going to be able to see marvel movies the same again lol

[@NotQuiteFirst]

Yeah high contrast is easier to like, hence Instagram filters

[@Abatteries]

People are saying how this is a choice to make the movies more realistic, but the dark knight trilogy doesn't have this problem, even though it also aims for realism. Dull doesn't mean realistic

[@Young_Dab]

Bruh not more realistic but more color accurate

[@eurekafilmsNz]

dark night......shadows plays a huge role in the story telling of that movie and therefore you shouldnt be conparing

[@CamoflaugeDinosaue]

A. it's superheros, who the fuck cares about realistic B. It's not realism, it's because this is the version the focus groups had the least negative reaction to. Creation by numbers is all these films are.

[@Valdivia9494]

Feels more down to earth, kind of like if it was filmed by a news network. Which tbh, it's a great feel for things so massive as they happen in these movies.

[@dantan1249]

Abatteries unless you live in Seattle. Haha

[@angelomordini6779]

Now I notice the grey overlook and I want them to be more vibrant

[@henrycohn5085]

Angelo James Mordini But he also showed a bit of Mad Max: Fury Road which to me was ridiculously coloured and made me think it was all CG (when in fact it was mostly practical effects). On the other hand I enjoyed the film much more as a result of the ridiculous aesthetics; the hatred I hold for this entire genre of film was greatly abated by seeing something which to me didn't take itself seriously

[@dougpleppen3803]

There was a fuck ton of CGI in Fury Road my dude.

[@henrycohn5085]

doug pleppen That's what I thought when I watched it but later I read it was mainly practical effects, or at least a lot more than I expected it to be.

[@TheOriginalNCDV]

Henry Cohn The stunts, explosions etc are practical effects, but the scenery is heavily CGI'd from the behind-the-scenes footage I've seen...

[@ricemenarq6230]

The examples he used were actually bootlegged copies some chinese guy shot

[@SamuelBilodeau]

Hi, professional colorist here. Sorry to get a little pedantic but your black value argument is actually severely flawed. Specifically what you measured with the eye dropper was the legal black value (6.25%, or digital code 16 on an 8 bit scale) which is used in video files in the REC 709 color primaries intended for television and theater, as opposed to the full scale black value 0% which is used on computer screens. While I agree that they don't use a very strong contrast curve, I can tell you that the primary thing you're seeing wrt black points is a technical issue between improper standards conversions rather than a colorist's decision. I've seen moderate to severe issues with this not only in my own footage misbehaving between my own systems, but also between different quality renders on KZbin, whether im streaming to my tv or not. Worse than that, sometimes the versions on iTunes or Netflix or Blu-ray are all different in how they're presented, depending on whether the right metadata flags are present in the stream or not. Yes, colorists can and do make decisions about black points, but when you're dealing with a studio like marvel there are other possible points of failure in the image distribution pipeline that the film goes through. Don't be so hasty to judge - you've just accidentally peaked into the messy world of video standards errors

[@redplanet76]

yup. agreed.

[@Lily.valkyrie]

woah

[@monocore]

What about "it was first used in 'O brother where art thou'." WTF is he talking about.

[@redplanet76]

Sergio Lugo color grading has been used for decades but was primarily achieved as a chemical process. You of course could use certain filters on the camera to shift the look. Oh brother where art thou wasn't the first film graded but it's considered the first feature length film to be digitally colored from front to back through the "digital intermediate" process, which is what we use today... although we use much better and much less expensive tools than they had obviously.

[@ozgruntsyd4281]

Not quite correct. PAL video had a black value of 0. NTSC had the 6.25% value which is one of the reasons a lot of countries hated the look of it (that and their power supplies ran at 50hz not 60hz). So I take it you are an 'old' professional colourist and still abide by the rules from the analogue days. Everything is digital now right through to the screen so there is no need to even consider the nasty limits imposed on us by analogue technologies of yesteryear.

[@razorwing360]

Guardians of the Galaxy 2 and Homecoming are full of color. But this video was before those so.... yeah

[@wserthmar8908]

RAZORWING They still haven’t deep dark colors and tone, though

[@judas3089]

Homecoming didn't really bring anything special though, kinda visualy boring compared to what films are today, Thor Ragnarok and some scenes in Black Panther kinda nailed what the beauty of color is

[@judas3089]

@@ftlbattosai9470 who are u talking to

[@ftlbattosai9470]

@@judas3089 lol oh I was talking to RAZORWING but it didn't add their name for some reason, I shall fix it.

[@ftlbattosai9470]

RAZORWING but they suck.

[@TheFirehands150]

Dude... when you realize the behind the scenes footage has better color gradient than the movie

[@MorganLeodeMenezes]

Lol 😂🤣

[@ArchibaldClumpy]

And the behind-the-scenes footage literally looks better because you can see people existing in a setting instead of bad CGI puppets running around some animated arena; interspersed with close-up character shots with the blurriest, most generic backgrounds you ever saw.

[@bobsonny]

color grading, not color gradient

[@TickingClocks]

I completely agree. Movies these days are so dull looking. I'm glad that films like Mad Max and Pacific Rim and Force Awakens are so much brighter, and with the success all those movies had, I'm sure other movies (that need it, cause like you said, serious stuff like Spotlight does not need super bright poppy colors) will make the change too. I've been a bit confused by the whole bland look for a while but didn't really know how to word it, so this video does it perfectly!

[@davidw.2791]

Alex Gonzalez DCEU films didn't have this "not black when it should be black" problem that OP of this video pointed out, though.

[@BubuSnow93]

Didn't like Force Awakens at all but if definitely had some great photography, however I'm almost sure they shot it on film.

[@gabrielbriones1530]

Ticking Clocks Fury Road for me is honestly better in Black and White.

[@daegan_ftw]

Disney uses Kodak brand motion picture grade film. Kodak even gets a mention in the credits.

[@kevin462nivek]

People are saying that the film has to look grey in order to have a "realistic" look, but if you look at movies like The Dark Knight or the Dark Knight Rises 4K Blu-rays, it becomes quite apparent that a film can look realistic without having to have a low contrast color grade. GOTG2 and Ragnarok had some very nice grading and I think they handled their digital images well.

[@drksideofthewal]

TDK had the opposite problem. Everything else in the movie was so grounded and gritty, they needed saturation to make it resemble a comic book movie.

[@jacobbentley9318]

Have you seen dark Knight? From what I remember the colours were pretty toned down

[@ViveLRoi]

I would not agree with that. TDK has very strong colors, they're just mostly in shades of blue and black. But the use of black does give great depth to the contrasting colors-- mostly blues and purples. It's not really toned-down or washed out. Of them, Batman Begins might possibly be described having a washed out look, and it's very brownish in its overall color palette. But I still think it makes excellent use of black to bring out those colors. It helps that all 3 of Nolan's Batman movies were shot on film rather than digital.

[@pixelboss4980]

So🤓🤓🤓

[@kayleighjosiah]

Kevin Stevenson I think it has to do with making these heroes feel more human rather than just looking realistic. Instead of pulling on the bright comic colors they wanted a warmer family palette to communicate to people and broaden their audience.

[@mudkipaficionado7547]

Thor Ragnorak had amazing color saturation. It was very satisfying too watch.

[@captainaffection]

Just the comment I was looking for. :)

[@wserthmar8908]

Captain Laurence No deep dark tone and color in Ragnarok

[@judas3089]

In the first half hour of Ragnarok, the theme was kinda dark (:

[@dramamine755]

Captain Laurence do you know much about color grading?

[@kareemabusalah5079]

And black panther

[@sarcasm-83]

Saw the title, frowned and went "What the hell - ugly? What is this...?!" Watched the video and... yeah, I completely agree. How have I not noticed that before? When I edit things, I always go for a more vibrant picture - or when I watch movies on my PC and use VLC player or such to view them, I often add saturation, contrast - tweak it to nice and vibrant. 3:48 aboud Civil War is an incredible difference and I now wish I could watch all of them with such correction.

[@Young_Dab]

I don't recall the movies looking this dull or muddy when I used watch them. I think he purposely edited the videos scenes to make them look this way

[@abates17]

Sarcasm You can! Just go to your TV picture settings, bump up the Saturation level, maybe turn Brightness down and Contrast up, and you’ll have a picture exactly like Patrick’s color grading. Personally I want skin tones to look natural and not orange, but if you want to use his artificial color grading, knock yourself out!

[@bolbol6434]

Sometimes, i used my video player to change and tweak the color of their movies 🤣🤣🤣

[@Mechator_Rex]

It is several years later. Just saw "The Black Widow". You can even see the work of the different lighting and camera teams. The work there is somehow to most extent almost just BS! :-/

[@queerasaclockworkorangehor1776]

So that's what you think? A saturated contrasty aka nice and vibrant should be how all things should look?

[@guillermovaccarezza7105]

100% agreed. Altough I have to say that for instance... in Winter Soldier that particular color grading worked well because the movie is more gritty and "realistic", not so pulpy, so in cases like that the washed out color grading is a go.

[@christoffelmiddel6663]

Another Winter Soldier comment, I'm telling you it does not look remotly realisitic to me.

[@stt.9433]

since when are marvel movies meant to be taken seriously

[@jonnoweb]

Guillermo Vaccarezza It's ok with Winter Soldier but the others need fixed.

[@Dangerous2099]

The muted colours in Winter Soldier are fine, but the problem in Winter Soldier like all other Marvel films is the lack of any real blacks. Instead it's grey black and the image looks washed out and less powerful as a result.

[@tashidiaz8915]

I agree with Winter Soldier. The color theme matched that movie perfectly.

[@v.m.3337]

I find it amusing how he had to mention 70 times "how much he liked marvel movies" just so the fan boys wouldn't attack and there are still over 4000 dislikes...

[@rohailsheikh9105]

Vasil Molaliyski But that's how Marvel fanboys are. They can get easily pissed of.

[@v.m.3337]

Rohail Sheikh They are often either young or just mentally underdeveloped

[@joshuaokparaocha331]

4000 isn't that much

[@Blaahb]

Rohail Sheikh that's all fanboys though. People just have to realize what THEY like isn't always the best

[@ZachBobBob]

My ONLY two problems with Marvel has been the music and the flat cinematography. The first Avengers looks like a TV show with an INSANE budget. Looks like Marvel have noticed are trying to fix both. Hiring Giacchino for the music in Doctor Strange and Spiderman and switching camera's seems like a step in right direction.

[@kenlau967]

Zach Gerrity It takes 14 movies to try to fix the problems...

[@ZachBobBob]

ken lau I'm not making excuses for them they should've sorted it out after the first avengers :P But on the flip side change takes time. They have so many movies in production at once and they're coming out thick and fast they probably barely have any down time to work out kinks. They have a formula and they're churning these things out, that studio is just a machine.

[@JohnDoe-ys1vb]

to be fair, the music isn’t that bad, at least the cap movies..

[@ZachBobBob]

John Doe I think it's about half and half. Half have really unforgettable soundtracks and half are really great if you listen to them

[@JohnDoe-ys1vb]

Yeah, but you got to admit that music in the opening to cap 3 was 👌

[@blackswanvante]

I always told my sister that the MCU films looked “ashy” to me and she told me I was crazy BUT THIS CONFIRMS IT I KNEW IT HAD TO DO WITH COLOR GRADING

[@robbiefl2001]

Bit late lol but did you ever show this video to your sister? And did it change her opinion at all?

[@ActiumFilms]

"The camera doesn't matter. But it's going to be better now that they're using a different camera." Kinda contradicting yourself there.

[@gordo_cabron]

Meaning: there has to be a reason for the camera change. AKA they want the look (motion feeling + grading) to be different.

[@ActiumFilms]

Nope, the new camera won't make a noticeable change in colour. And definitely not 'motion feeling' - not sure what you're trying to say there. That new RED has a super high resolution which suits them if they want to reframe shots without losing quality when the film is displayed in 4K on BluRay or 2K in most cinemas.

[@gordo_cabron]

Actium Films WTF. If you rent a different camera only for reframing in these movies you're instantly fired. Do you know anything about sampling? Have your ever used a real filmmaking camera? There's a world between one and another.

[@ActiumFilms]

Yeah, I have. There certainly is a small visual difference between cameras like the Arri Alexa and the various REDs, but it doesn't affect the final image we see in the cinema that much. Using a different camera is not going to make Civil War look like Iron Man. It's all down to the lighting and colour grading, not the camera at all. The camera is just the tool. It's all the processes that give the footage a particular look.

[@gordo_cabron]

OK. So suddenly exposure ranges and camera tests are useless because lighting and color correction. Nothing else to hear from you. Go back to play with your dslr or your cell phone. According to you they can be the same. The audience needs Couch Potato 2! :D

[@TheCrazyDcoolest]

Even Logan, the most human comic book movie in years was more vibrant than MCU movies.

[@DHynes5]

And BvS as well. Despite what people think of the film, those visuals were phenomenal!!!

[@goodjobeli]

Guardians 2 was very vibrant. Marvel have improved!

[@pphyjynx8217]

i'd rather have a good movie than a good looking movie

[@Pastrybfs]

Film is a visual medium though. Read a book if the story is the most important part for you.

[@orphious885]

Mid Gub really? 'cause I thought it was a bit intentionally subdued. I mean, most of it takes place in the desert, on the road, or in a woods. The tone of Wolverine dying slowly is reflected in the earthy colors of the film.

[@indradinho88]

Couldn’t agree more. At first watching The Avengers on cinema, I thought the exhibitor forget to fine tuning the colors. My dull life is even more colorful than any digitally shot MCU movies

[@denn_al]

Lol

[@cringekiller348]

Dumb comment from a dumb mcu hater on an outdated video.

[@rawkrXbabee]

Shoot now I'm gonna be all judgy of the colour grading now, thanks a lot video man! :(

[@joekaput747]

Sammy I already am for the dc films.

[@joshuak5798]

+Joe Kaput DC films are visually stunning.

[@eliseugouveia5065]

Criticise DC movies all you like, one thing you can't take away from them is the fact that they are visually STUNNING. Zack may be a flawed storyteller, but imagery is the one field he dominates.

[@joekaput747]

I think Zack might be better off as a cinematographer instead of a director, based on what y'all are saying.

[@bboiblack1948]

doesn't write said flawed stories.

[@ThePointlessBox_]

So that's why they all look the same and you can tell a marvel movie just by the lighting

[@MukhtarAhmed-js2zd]

@@branpod how is it different franchises

[@Sr.Perfil]

marshall branin Actually Captain American and Doctor are the franchise not "different"

[@TheRishijoesanu]

MCU fixed this problem. GOTG2, Ragnarok, Infinity War etc

[@samglover4923]

Ok so how about DC?

[@DeviantDork]

Nope.

[@Godzilla370]

guardians 1&2, thor ragnarok, black panther and now infinity war all look colourful

[@thomasjefferson2813]

BP looks garbage tho

[@surya_0x0]

Eh I felt the graphics in infinity war was kinda lack luster. Especially iron mans suit, it looked so weird. Guardians 2 and ragnarok was really colorful. Felt amazing watching it in IMAX.

[@omarkhamis523]

Suryadas C M I too notice that weird cgi in infinity war. Not saying bad it just seemed weird for me

[@surya_0x0]

@@omarkhamis523 yeah hope the upcoming movies make up better vfx. Maybe its because infinity war was set in a completely artificial environment that it feels lackluster. Then again guardians VFX was way better and it was also in a completely different environment. Still marvel makes cool movies enjoyable to watch ,just another big action movie that's good.

[@omarkhamis523]

Suryadas C M I don't when I saw first the scene on Titan it felt weird the cgi was great in s weird way thanos looked real maybe because it was my first time seeing a movie in imax

[@bitmap6280]

You exactly addressed my problem with Marvel films. The weird lack of saturation makes the movies feel empty and lifeless when they have the potential to feel and look vibrant and as intense as the story they are telling. You can still see it in some of Marvel's more recent movies like Thor Ragnarok, even though it's is one of the most colorful and beautifully shot MCU movies to date (in my opinion). DC's color grading feels less flat (especially in Wonder Woman) but the dark tones and SO MUCH BLUE (the Zack Snyder look) run the risk of going to the opposite extreme. Anyway great video on a great channel. Well done 👏👏👏

[@elfsieben1450]

Snyder just fucked up anything that used to be good about DC movies. Good riddance to the Snyderverse!

[@cringekiller348]

Lmao You are butt hurt hater. Marvel are improved a lot on this. The fact that you are commenting on a five year old. Which is outdated Clearly proves your bs.

[@Automatik234]

Color grading seriously became a problem. Since colors and lighting in most don't look believable anymore, cgi effects look more fake and the "wow factor" just goes away.

[@HooverBeast]

who the fuck cares? thats what separates the best from the rest

[@Automatik234]

HooverBeast Didn't seem to understand what I wanted to say...

[@tasherratt]

I have to agree the suspension of disbelief that the audience has to put into a film, as our part of the artistic process has become an increasing issue with modern excessive colour grading. Just look at the Jurassic franchise for a perfect example. The original was shot on film and has a natural colour balance, World was shot digitally and over graded in post, the result was a less engaging visual effect. It is reminiscing of Spector’s wall of sound in the 60s or autotune, within a style it has a place but over use results in an unsatisfying artificial feeling. Marvel have been trying to sell the MCU as a real world rather than a comic book cartoon, it is a stylistic choice that has worked for them.

[@ItsNotGeorgeItsSjors]

Automatik It's kinda like what the musicindustry does with the likes of cher and britney spears, when you mess too much with the original, the fact that it's fake becomes too obvious

[@Automatik234]

I don't mean like exended landsapes. But stuff like Spaceships, fictional creatures and collapsing buildings just kinda "don't feel real" anymore.

[@kiwibean9313]

DC is too dark I literally can't see their movies

[@slipstream3903]

You sir a bland af. Their movies are visually amazing and beautiful. The colors pop because of the proper black values, rich colors, and real color grading.

[@dericjames2018]

@TJS 1701 nope wrong

[@dericjames2018]

@TJS 1701 Just saying BVS and Justice League, Wonder Woman had lots of color but I will admit Man Of Steel and Suicide Squad were really dull.

[@dericjames2018]

@TJS 1701 I have The 4K Blu Ray for BVS and it looked nice with good colors but I think the regular version is dull I never seen it lmao.

[@Shoeless598]

You're so dark, are you sure your not from the DC universe?

[@jmkand]

i always kind of assumed that they toned down the colours because having a more realistic colour scheme (as opposed to the overly saturated one in most comics, especially the old ones) was a countermeasure to superhero movies not being taken seriously. i feel like the superhero movie genre was only recently recognised as a respectable, *adult* genre, so the MCU is still on that dull palette because it makes cap's bright blue onesie look less silly; less "disney's hercules"... but idk

[@MarkBrownBranding]

Completely agree with this. Doubt it's by chance

[@TheFahmi97]

Agree. They should be more vibrant with Guardians though, because that films don't need to be taken too seriously and the theme is more lighter. But for the earth based heroes they should stick with it.

[@cheekycchoco8699]

Rami's spiderman says hello

[@hijodelsoldeoriente]

Same thoughts.

[@KaizerMan]

Yeah that’s probably why, and then ever since then it’s literally been a copy & paste idea because they just want the unison with how the movies visually look I do think though they should split between which ones have the grounded dull look & which have the more cartoonish comic look. Like GotG, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, Thor and the other more mystical, cosmic & space themed ones can embrace the comic outlandishness. Then more realistic ones like Captain America, Black Panther, Iron-Man, etc are fine to have more muted, subtle colour grading. That’s just my view anyway

[@johnsonwang7253]

I don't understand how I only just stumbled onto this. As a person who works in the film industry and also edits his own photography, the color grading was something I always noticed as being lackluster in these films. I'm curious to see how you feel about the overall look of Infinity War now that it's been out. I feel like the look of that film as well as Black Panther really felt more polished than their precious works.

[@TycoNewRC]

Don't you mean "previous works" at the end of your comment? You should probably edit that.

[@LordofMovies91]

@@TycoNewRC I think "precious works" kinda fits too. Haha

[@waldokleynhans6977]

TycoNewRC no he meant precious

[@Mysikrysa]

Black Panther looks like a computer game. It all kinda looks like a computer game. Totally fake.

[@waldokleynhans6977]

Mysikrysa your joking right? A computer game, have you even seen black panther?

[@xfalsetruth06x]

I think they really turned a corner with Homecoming, Ragnarok and the upcoming Black Panther

[@N218-b1v]

xfalsetruth06x well BP came out and the last fight scene looked absolute garbage. It looked like I was watching CW’s The Flash

[@gabrielathebluealien1247]

true

[@SpectrumCinemax]

Very Merry Marauder We are talking about colors here not VFX

[@grinsplit444]

@@croslee how?

[@alfa01spotivo]

lol black panther

[@TomSka]

Fascinating stuff, my dude! More of this

[@patrickhwillems]

Thanks, man! Glad you dug it.

[@williamhoncharuk8449]

You know you've made it big when TomSka compliments you on your video!

[@hakangunay8189]

+Patrick (H) Willems Great video.But the main reason some folks still dislike mcu is jokes/funny moments.Some folks want fully serious,bloody,savage,psychopathic movies.Dardevil tv Show meets with these criteria.Marvel should make movies like daredevil.If disney wont allow any r-rated then marvel should sell defenders,g.rider,blade,m.knight to other studios.Warner is my 1st choice

[@patrickhwillems]

Why the hell should Spider-Man or Avengers movies be "fully serious,bloody,savage,psychopathic" if the comics were never, ever that way?

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

That English fellow looks...familiar...

[@magnumcornetto]

This problem is really, really obvious in Age of Ultron. That's by far the ugliest movie of the bunch.

[@simonegreco1958]

I'd say Civil War...point of view, I guess

[@elledy92]

+De Nitpichers Civil War is at least entertaining. Age of Ultron is really bland.

[@kenlau967]

Winter soldier and Civil War are entertaining but they just look like TV show with lots of CGI...quite ugly

[@mathewrealfan]

Well, bullshit....

[@TooFatTooFurious]

I strongy disagree. Age of Ultron was shot by the same guy, who shot Guardians. And I think it makes better use of shadows, then most Marvel movies do. There are also nice shots here and there. Like, I really love that shot where they are all devastated on their plane after fight with Scarlet Witch

[@Rezgate]

5 years later and we are still suffering from this…

[@rhinuu045]

and now the cinematography just sucks in general. like wtf lmao

[@WL1264]

@@rhinuu045 Dr strange multiverse of madness? Shang Chi?

[@rhinuu045]

@@WL1264 dr strange's visuals were awesome but again the cinematography fell flat to me. lots of really ugly and uncreative upper body shots but ig its subjective. overall id still say that its getting worse, nwh, thor 4, she hulk, gotg holiday special generally had super mid looking shots to me its just that the movies look a lot more colorful (good thing btw) but it doesnt look as cinematic as before

[@toraregisfurry]

gotg 3?

[@jakepetergaming]

This makes sense. I love to add a bit of color to my videos as well to make them pop and I didn't understand why more people don't.

[@lukeroughan4658]

jakepeter *Colour

[@rushverl]

Luke Roughan In America Color is the correct spelling, so no need to correct him

[@rushverl]

Luke Roughan In America Color is the correct spelling, so no need to correct him

[@ActiumFilms]

But your videos are all of videogames. You don't have actual camera footage to grade. So...are you saturating already existing game footage??

[@jakepetergaming]

Actium Films I was not talking about videos I post on this channel, I probably could have made myself more clear there. I would not color grade games.

[@jarosbodytko6462]

Huh, funny how I never noticed that, but once pointed out, it is fairly obvious. Although I have to say that it fits movies like Winter soldier and Civil War better, than let's say Ant-Man, and it actually works into their advantage. But it's true that it probably shouldn't have been used on every movie since they stopped shooting on film, just the ones with a more realistic undertone while the lighter movies would've benefitted from a more colorful approach. It doesn't make the movies ugly per sebut I can definitely see your point.

[@Yatsura2]

Cant see how it does give them an advantage. Those movies are everything but realistic and dont want to be. Thats not a bad thing. Nobody wants to see _"realistic superhero fights"_. The best fights in comics were always those best drawn with good contrasts and colors. Those are comic movies, so they should do the same.

[@jarosbodytko6462]

Yatsura2 Maybe 'realistic' is the wrong word here. I guess I mean it gives the movies more gravitas, subtly suggesting there's more at stake than just the classic 'good guy vs bad guy and all is well at the end'-thing. The more colorful (in the broader sense of the word) movies are the ones like Iron Man, Ant-Man, etc... that stand on their own while the movies that are greyer are the movies that foreshadow a bigger plot. That's why I think those movies benefit more from that color pallet, or lack thereof. Don't know if that makes sense, but it comes across that way to me. Don't get me wrong, I love the very comic-y feel that the Marvel movies have. Not everything needs to be The Dark Knight.

[@sydnehan477]

I agree--I think the Russo Bros were specifically going for a more grounded, realistic look in TWS because of the tone shift between 1940's Captain America and modern-day Captain America. The action and political plot lines became much more grounded in realism starting with TWS too, so for the CapAm series, I think the coloring is fine. But I agree with you that lighter MCU titles like Guardians and Ant-Man could've gone with the more comicbook-like contrast and color.

[@avip8539]

Does no one think this is on purpose? So the characters look more realistic or more connected to this world.

[@Pepingco]

It can also just be lazy post production or really bad producers who want to stay safe and dont want to take a risk with something already gaining a lot of steam. The issue is complicated because the film versions of their movies looked highly saturated and look nothing like any of their digital films after Iron man. So obviously its not AS intentional as people think. Film grading is really expensive and film is also risky when producers rush directors. Digital is cheaper and faster and you only need one grader so it kinda makes sense financially and once you have the grading, its REALLY EASY to cut and paste. But Im just another nerd that needs to shut up lol.

[@calgacusofcaledonia]

Yup, that's exactly what I think....and I like it that way 😬

[@WatchfulVendor]

That's probably part of Marvel's thought process: but being done on purpose doesn't make it look any better, or fit the tone of a marvel movie any better.

[@luiscastilloful]

except theyre not lol. that works for the dark knight trilogy because it was a more realistic take. In this case, you have literal gods, stones that control different aspects of reality, a guy who can shrink and become giant, and most recently, someone who travels through different planes of existence. It would make more sense to have it be just a smidge out of flat colors. not enough to be jarring, just enough to make it seem like a different universe where all that is normal. side note: Batman begins had amazing color grading anytime batman was in a scene. it switched from flat colors to deep contrast depending on whether bruce wayne or batman were on screen. it was subtle, but helped differentiate between the different personas

[@avip8539]

Luis Castillo That's why I said it...to make it more realistic. Not that these heroes are inherently realistic.

[@austingilcher6687]

I love how this is the one video bashing marvel but people are still bringing the hate to DC

[@l0sts0ul89]

Fact

[@tclturbo2456]

They need to bring up DC to defend the MCU

[@upon1326]

@@tclturbo2456 correction they need to bring up the dceu to defend mcu Dc comics and animation are far superior to marvel medium

[@NP-zv4bf]

Bc apparently they have this mindset that the stuff marvel does bad at dc is even worse, and that’s not necessarily true since only the dceu is inferior to the mcu, while I’m every other aspect dc and marvel are equal or dc is killing them like in animated movies and games

[@hoangkhuongtang6111]

They cannot give a good statement to defend their favorite movies against the criticism, so they make a DC's joke to make them feel better.

[@ElBandito]

First thing I do before I upload pictures online is to increase their vibrance. More colors always made those picture look better.

[@RicoSeattle]

The biggest problem with the airport fight scene in Civil War was the fact that the location was a freaking airport!! One of the most boring locations you could have for a fight scene. Now don't get me wrong; an airport location can be presented well, even for an action scene, but in Civil War it just looked so boring. I think the location was a bigger issue than the color for that scene specifically.

[@PatrickRatman]

it looks like the gta 5 airport with less stuff happening.

[@Extremexboxplayer]

PhantomPh1re it's a fucking airport...what? did you think there'd be a rollercoaster?

[@adamate141]

Haha, yeah.

[@RainbowDash259]

Why would a team of super heroes that protect people fight in a city or well populated area?

[@notatroll5212]

That is probably the worst excuse I've heard........ the location was boring but the action itself was great. Many locations in action films are boring but if the action itself is entertaining and you're having fun watching then it doesn't matter what the location is.

[@leonthesleepy]

I've always wondered why i always hated Marvel movie's visuals, and loved DC's visuals. Now i know why.

[@tochukwuudu7763]

leonthesleepy same

[@orphious885]

leonthesleepy because DC is based on the eye-catching comics aesthetic and Marvel is based on a realistic interpretation of the comics?

[@aravind50100]

leonthesleepy same here

[@joshuak5798]

Yep.

[@TallicaMan1986]

leonthesleepy Dc looks ugly though. The cg just doesnt blend with their movies.

[@peterxiong3367]

the trailers for endgame look really nice, color grading wise.

[@69mviewsnt]

finally... im glad they changed it

[@teachugger8552]

@@69mviewsnt it has been changed for the past 2 years. Where have you been?

[@Reippa]

Trailer doesn't honestly look that good.

[@amanms1999]

@@teachugger8552 ant Man and the wasp and cap marvel had terrible colour grading

[@David-dv5ov]

@@teachugger8552 Captain Marvel's color grading gave me terminal cancer

[@Andre_Jordan]

Thanos will bring color grading.

[@ShovelChef]

Can you recommend a video essay about movie scores? Could be MCU, action, or scoring in general.

[@ShovelChef]

But I'm curious what you've seen about MCU music, since you mentioned it. I searched briefly, but haven't found a solid hit on that subject yet.

[@patrickhwillems]

This one by Tony Zhou: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bafJop6srLxlnNU And the response by Dan Golding: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5S7pHtubb2fga8 ...are both great and absolutely worth watching.

[@ShovelChef]

Ohhh, I suspected that Tony Zhou vid, but I guess I expected a catchier title, more like yours. ;) Thanks very much!

[@patrickhwillems]

No problem!

[@jerryscanas]

You forgot The Hulk in the early Marvel cannon the one with Edward Norton as lead

[@rebelarcade4183]

I always felt something was off. Thanks for bringing it up. Either we're both just persnickety nerds of you're dead-on right.

[@jmiquelmb]

Rebel Arcade Inc. Totally agree. Also, I'm not half as knowledgeable as some people here, but it also seemed to me that the camera work and settings are always so uncreative. Marvel/Disney seems to care more about having a prefect assembly line of samey movies than anything else. It's the "that will do" philosophy

[@jmiquelmb]

***** Why I'm wrong, if I can know?

[@jmiquelmb]

***** Nice point, you dismantled all my arguments

[@jmiquelmb]

***** Oh, this is not the exact expression? I'm sorry, English is not my first language. How stupid of me to not be born on an English speaking country. We can discuss movies in Spanish, Catalan or French, if you prefer. Yes, you're right. My opinion in movies is wrong because I don't speak exactly like a native. You're not a fanboy at all

[@Bakron97]

+jmiquelmb Nah man don't worry you were spot on. "that will do" is the right expression for what you were going for. Hes just an idiot

[@louizabelle]

The comments here = "The flat grading makes it more realistic." What? It's a superhero franchise, often with extraterrestrial characters and spaces. How realistic can that get, exactly? And they can definitely make better stylistic choices that still align to the "realistic" feel they want to impart. I agree with you on Pacific Rim! It maximizes the audio visual experience to the hilt, making it more enjoyable to watch in theaters. Aquaman too, as the most recent superhero flick! I'm all about getting dazzled by a genre like this, I mean, isn't that the whole point?

[@coattanimous7182]

Lou Danganan Not so much realistic, but more grounded. The heroes that aren’t meant to be super out there like captain America and iron man are achieving an everyday lives look rather than comic book. Which was a smart decision, considering that comic book movies wasn’t really taken seriously when iron man came out. Grounded and Gritty was the best choice

[@lilithperalta5126]

Not more realistic but more so on the fact that it Feels real and not out of touch... everyone has their preferences 😊

[@cow_tools_]

@@coattanimous7182 But Iron Man was on film! It did not in fact have this drab grading. That's one reason why it's still my favourite Marvel film. I would also say that grounded is almost the opposite of gritty. DC films and Lord of the Rings look gritty with their dynamic range. You can see all of the markings on people's skin for instance. In Marvel films, everyone's skin looks smooth and dim to me. Overall, I think Nolan did it perfectly with Dark Knight. There still hasn't been a more 'realistically' colour-graded super-hero film to date than that one, in my opinion.

[@cow_tools_]

Totally agree.

[@coattanimous7182]

Miles Anderson Every marvel film usually has a great pallet if it isn’t meant to be a be a more grounded political thriller like Civil war or winter solider. The other ones that don’t are Thor 2 and iron man 3. Otherwise we have the beautiful space of infinity war, guardians, and Thor 1&3, the contrasting colors of iron man 1&2- and the bright colors of ant man and the wasp. It’s rarely drab. Also no, grounded is not the opposite of realistic. Grounded means it’s more realistic than a cartoony mess. That’s why it’s called grounded. Also, the dark knight doesn’t do any thing particularly good with lighting. It just turns up some blues and deepens the shadows. It works fine, and it’s a great film, but it’s colors are dull next to a ton of marvel films (gotg 1&2, Thor ragnarock)

[@anthonyvillanueva5226]

I came back to this vid after seeing Guardians 2, and I agree. The color grading is much better in that film.

[@cheddargt]

Yes! Me too!

[@typingnoises]

FINALLY! A comment about Gotg Vol. 2! Color grading in that movie is WAY better!

[@anthonyvillanueva5226]

GotG is my favorite MCU film, but it looks as colorful as a concrete block. I remembered this vid when I saw GotG Vol.2, and though of course far from a perfect film, it was a much more colorful film.

[@transformersloverjon]

"Better."

[@roshieifra]

Anthony Villanueva I have some hope for thor ragnarok.

[@SKyrim190]

Honestly, I know taste is subjective blablabla, but what you showed as an improvement for me was only a highly saturated image.

[@Lyw1234567890]

Luiz Sarchis lol yeah I agree, but desaturating the yellow in the shots would easily fix that problem. Saturating an image often results in what looks like too much yellow, so desaturating the yellow should do

[@SKyrim190]

Yes, kind of...I agree that using only a "normal world" scale is boring and flat, but just upping the saturation is not great either. The color scheme of the movie should be meaningful to the story being told. So an Iron Man movie can have a different look when compared to an Ant-Man. Only saturating everything is not a solution. However, I understand that this was quickly done just to prove a point and Marvel has infinitely more resources than KZbin guy. I just think some of them did not look THAT good...

[@Bakron97]

It was something he did in 10 seconds to just show a point. Obviously it would look better if the studio actually put effort into adding some color and black value to their shots

[@srvisgod88]

Lisa Wang exactly

[@FinalGrade]

Bakron When making an entire video to complain about the color itself you should spend more then 10 seconds to prove a point. It should have been better. He knows better. Also by that logic you could accuse him of doing the very thing that he is blaming Marvel movies for.

[@brettdomenick]

why did the camera have to be named Alexa? you kept waking up my echo!

[@killarafael]

xD

[@gownerjones2]

If I said "Alexa, order 10 iPhone 7s please." in a video, would the Echo just do that without asking?

[@brettdomenick]

HOLyPumpgun | Gaming I don't have ordering setup, but I believe there is some type of confirmation where it will say a price and you have to say yes. Could also cancel it.

[@gownerjones2]

Brett Domenick Oh okay, interesting.

[@colvinang2684]

In defends, Alexa camera came out fway before Echo.

[@noarmsally2628]

1:30 - look in the bottom right of the screen 1:32 - color grading added a rock there?

[@ПавелПовх-з3у]

Yes.

[@danielfogli1760]

That's some serious color grading 😉

[@Matt-hw5tt]

Post-production added both the colour grading and the rock.

[@Luca-bv5ic]

One is obviously behind the scenes footage and the other is the final movie, so they OBVIOUSLY CGId a rock in for the final movie.

[@shduduwuhsdhi1951]

Dc is so dark that it gets pulled over by the police for no reason

[@woghat6130]

oH MY GOD

[@eshan309]

that was very dark joke

[@dr.shwetasrivastava1681]

It seems the case of night blindness

[@politereminder6284]

cold man, cold😂😂😂

[@_linlin_]

This is the dark humour i need

[@sammylane21]

Bryan Singer's X MEN movies are so much more guilty of this.

[@chaiteelatte]

Bryan Singer has a lot to be guilty of.

[@peraxelhagne1400]

Bryan Singer's mutant power is to repeat the same mistake all over again

[@loops9742]

Denise Tee Bryan singers xmen is good he made x1 x2 and dofp the best ones

[@ronpetersen2317]

Sammy Lane Every single Superhero film has been "guilty" for well over a decade and a half. Really the last film I can think of that went full tilt with Comic book colors is all they way back to the Reeves Superman. They have been muting those red and blues ever since.

[@BrySkye]

Whilst the movies themselves are bad, I don't think you could accuse the Schumacher Batman movies of muting colours.

[@aaronhinton3446]

FINALLY I understand the reason why I always thought that airport scene was a bit 'eh' for me

[@karangupta1825]

Let's be honest; Snyder's narration is debatable, but you can't deny that his cinematography, colour grading and visual styling is on another level. Watching a film is like reading a book. Watching a Snyder film is like watching a painting. Zack Snyder's Justice League is by far the most beautifully shot comic - book film. Seriously, every fucking shot is like a painting. Followed by BvS, Joker, Watchmen, TDK/TDKR and MoS.

[@bluepearl_22]

I'd also add Birds of Prey & The Suicide Squad (2021) to that list. All those movies are visually & stylistically more appealing than the entire MCU combined imo.

[@moonlitsonataa]

agree

[@wolverineiscool7161]

Joker was the BEST looking comic book character film that I had watched in decades, the cinematography and cold grading was on another level!

[@lockandreload]

Snyder should be a cinematographer. His directing is too much slow motion and close-up shots. Like the beginning of ZSJL when he has to show the zoomed in pot/fire, then a zoom out of Bruce next to it, then a zoom in of him stamping it out. And zooming in on the briefcase that Roose Bolton is carrying the entire time he's entering the building. Like we get it Zack, the briefcase is important. All he cares about is making everything look "cool" because that's what his fanboys want.

[@karangupta1825]

@@lockandreload *"God's peace fills your soul."*

[@samcarpenter_]

Can you just recolour all of Civil War so I can watch it again please

[@DaniTheDog.]

DC actually uses an effect that is simillar to the one he applied, and yet, look much darker soooo .. And as he said, the thing is not to make the colours flashier, but make the shadows darker :) Which is a thing you might not like, but that doesn't means it's Lame, buddy

[@NotQuiteFirst]

Just crank up the contrast on your monitor and it will pretty much look like that

[@JackWolf10]

I found this video by searching "Movies need more colour". I'm glad to see there's someone out there with a similar feeling. There's something about older films and their colour palettes that I just adore. Of course there are always exceptions, and certain movies can use a less colourful look to its advantage. However films like the Avengers were meant to be big, fun, over-the-top superhero flicks. So I think a more colourful look would compliment them greatly. If I ever make a film I'd want to make sure I use colour effectively.

[@aarOuOn]

Saw this video on my feed and insta clicked. Marvel movies are so gray they make me wanna fall asleep

[@lewiswhyte3930]

watch only god forgives or anything by refn for colour

[@sebcubille]

only god forgives has some of the best cinematography I've ever seen in a movie, yet it's a terrible movie

[@PauLtus_B]

+lewis whyte I'd say watch Drive then. Only God Forgives is pretty hard to like.

[@SS-hd5jx]

i agree, although i never really thought about it before. movies could definitely use more color, i think thats why i enjoy animated films ;p

[@MichaelS-vy1ku]

I like this. Something that has bothered me with recent movies is that it feels like they put sunglasses over the camera, everything seems to look "foggy" and low contrast.

[@Kevs3114]

This video is about 7 years, and still the problems are persistent. Just watch the Deadpool e Wolverine trailer.

[@rhinuu045]

it got better in some movies like shang chi, bp2, and gotg 3

[@WL1264]

No overral it got better.

[@zamirstuff]

Exactly! that was what I've been thinking about the color grading of Marvel movies.

[@lukeroughan4658]

Zamir A. Hernandez *colour

[@zamirstuff]

Luke Roughan Thank's but I'm not british

[@TwistedSynn]

honestly, I didn't notice, but now mentioning it, and comparing side by side I can't unnoticed it.

[@ColtonFultonUK]

Zamir A. Hernandez its funny I was just talking about this yesterday. Marvel is too bland and grey but DC way overdoes it and it looks like a video game.

[@zamirstuff]

J C The trailer of Batman V Superman, when Batman jumped into the window, looked like a trailer from Batman: Arkham

[@xovAvox]

Now that you pointed it out, it actually really frustrates me lol

[@transformersloverjon]

10/10 One person had one very specific opinion, created a video supposing his opinion as fact, and now you believe it.

[@Masterchief0521]

there's no opinion. This is how Marvel's movies have no proper black values, you can't argue with that.

[@PermanentHigh]

avox. Civil War made it even more obvious. The lack of tint made it look like trash.

[@IsaacPurpleguy]

avox. lol

[@transformersloverjon]

Big Baby Blue Eyes No, this video is for the sake of presenting an assessment on the fact that Marvel films have that characteristic. It's an opinion piece that uses that specific piece of information, but supposes that because that's happening, Marvel films are "ugly." "Ugly" is a subjective term. Duh.

[@kingX777]

Ok now I understand why it looks so off to me. Weird more people haven’t noticed this. When I was watching civil war, throughout the whole movie all I kept thinking is “something looks bland, or that it looks cheap somehow”.

[@starkingbiker]

kingX777 YES!

[@surya_0x0]

Yeah you are right even I felt something was bland when I saw civil war. But the movie was quite interesting to watch that I forgot about it.

[@xarityfan4370]

Same

[@SaretGnasoh]

SAME

[@matijalukovic727]

I dont why, I think civil war looked amazing and I think other color cheapen the look

[@marioehe6819]

When I think about civil war the first thing that comes to my mind is the color grey

[@MorganLeodeMenezes]

Even in the winter soldier movie 😅😅

[@buttersbeans6929]

Guardians of the galaxy looked pretty to me

[@russellh6152]

Christian Cummings vol 2 for sure

[@RandomBlackGamer]

Mmm depends on the director and which film it is. Guardians 1 & 2 probably has the best color grading. I'm with you on the Civil War film especially since it's filled with an ensemble of colorful characters. But it keeps the same atmosphere of Winter Soldier. I also notice a good color grade in Spider-Man Homecoming which has the perfect amount of saturation.

[@clb6675]

I'm glad I'm not alone

[@izzyhopeunlisted]

I personaly LOVE saturated colors, even if it does look a bit wrong, and I actually color graded civil war for my first time watching it, and I'm planing to increase saturation for (mostly) every movie I watch from now on

[@DarthHater100]

He didn't really answer the question, but I know the answer: 3D. The film makers actually address this in special features/commentary. . . how they've "mastered" lighting and grading for 3D. That is why they have brighter black levels and even lighting, to make up for the darkening-effect of 3D glasses. And overly colorful images can cause crosstalk on some LCD active displays, which is likely what they are using for playback when shooting digital. Marvel has some of the least problematic 3D and it is totally because of the way they've chosen to light and color grade their movies. I think if you go back and look at the grading and lighting, you will see the Avengers look emerging when they began doing movies in 3D. If you don't like it though, or you're not watching in 3D, just adjust your TV's settings. . . crank the saturation and lower the brightness and voila! Really, I think they should do two different masters, one for glasses on/3D, one for glasses off/2D.

[@ratnadeepsharma964]

DarthHater100 yep i think i agree

[@luckyowl10]

DarthHater100 it would be great to have a 3D and a 2D master, but that would spike the expenses significantly ...

[@JimWu213]

DarthHater100 I thought they always have different masters for different screens. same for Blu-ray releases. James Cameron also mentioned that they did different masters for different screens.

[@FueledbyAdrenaline17]

DarthHater100 This makes sense, now I get it...

[@jeromequinn214]

I don't think that's the issue. Beauty and the Beast, Kong: Skull Island, and Ghost in the Shell 2017, especially the GitS, have just as good, if not better 3D than the MCU (BB having the best), without looking grey. GitS even takes place during the night half the time and it sure doesn't have this problem. Shit, Avatar, the gold standard for 3D, doesn't have this problem. I truly doubt filmmakers deliberately sacrifice their aesthetics just for 5% of the showings that are in 3D. It's that sarcastic remark from the video that's probably the reason: people like flat looking because they're used to it from every single other media. It's much easier to look at, especially when scenes at night and at day have the same look, the transition doesn't hurt the eyes. And now with people bitching about the DCEU looking too dark, they doubled down on this: the recent Spider-Man Homecoming footage, and even Guardians 2 to an extent, have their saturation crancked up to an absurd degree, to the point that New York is bathed in sunlight as if it has a beach, while not fixing the contrast at all. It doesn't help that Thor: Ragnarok and Black Panther had the exact same look either.

[@AikiNickAMV2]

Well, this was informative, articulate, well edited and without a hint of pretentiousness. You, sir, gained a subscriber and I would love to see more video essays. On the topic itself, my guess would be that that since Marvel crosses over all of their films, they don't want them to look very different. To use an extreme example: imagine if Sin City crossed over with Mad Max. If that crossover had a look of the former, the characters of latter would look out of place and vice-versa. If it had a completely new look, than both would look out of place. I'm not saying Marvel is justified in using this method, perhaps they should figure it out better, this is just my best guess as to why a studio this large would make this kind of choice, which most definitely is a deliberate one.

[@johng7410]

I like the flat look, because it makes it more "real". Marvel has fantastical characters and (unlike DC) the movies tend to be very funny and tongue in cheek. So having the flat look I think helps ad realism to the otherwise less serious parts of the movie.

[@geneparmesan8748]

I can definitely see how it would help characters like Iron Man or Captain America, who are very inherently "cartoonish" and would never blend into the real world. I'd be interested in more colour saturation in Guardians, though, because that movie was much sillier and didn't try to be so realistic. And I don't know if you could saturate specific cells, but ignoring the saturation on godlike characters like Thor or Loki would probably be a cool effect (because then the gods would be deeper colours than everyone else, underscoring the fact that they're from another dimension).

[@Studio2770]

But the comics aren't flat.....

[@Sardious]

But it's not just people who buy comics that watch the movies. Making it seem more "real" color wise keeps the audience from thinking "no way that couldn't happen" during the scene itself. Actually very few people buy comics compared to how many watch the movies. Base the idea off the comic, but different medium and different audience so don't just copy the pop style of the comic.

[@melancholyentertainment]

+Sardious If someone is not into comic books, then why the hell are they watching a comic book film?

[@geneparmesan8748]

Mysterious Enigma that's the way comic book films approached things in the early 2000's. But ever since the Dark Knight brought mainstream audiences, comic book movies have really forged a new, more grounded identity. Generally speaking, comics are a more stylized medium, whereas movies are more muted and conservative in what they show. If you want examples of movies that adopt the look of comics: Kick Ass, 300, Watchmen.

[@undead_corsair]

2 years on and by the looks of Captain Marvel it seems they still haven't figured out how to make scenes set in urban areas look decent.

[@itcamefromabox]

I don't think this is an issue. The problem here is that this is all subjective. You can love it or hate it and you wouldn't be wrong. I personally never saw their moves as muddled down but keep in mind that we're seeing exactly what they WANT us to see. The colorist isn't some college amateur that's doing it incorrectly, this is just how they had it planned. Maybe the point was that they didn't want their color grading to look the same as every other action film?

[@theangryseal5705]

It isn't subjective dude. Marvel movies look like amateur rackaracka youtube videos. It's measurable and hence objectively provable, as done in this video.

[@itcamefromabox]

The Angry Seal How can you say it isn't subjective? Clearly you have a different opinion of it which proves it IS subjective. Do you honestly think all cinema is color graded one way?

[@theangryseal5705]

It Came From A Box No but these marvel movies are. Dude did you watch this video properly? he slowly and fantastically proves how cheap and non-movie like these films really look. they are unlike old marvel movies like the spiderman trilogy, which actually looked like huge superhero epics in terms of colour grading. Not to mention the mix of practical effects and cgi was way way better and realistic looking.

[@itcamefromabox]

Fantastically? I, once again, disagree. Do you think the color artists on the film don't know how to pump the contrast and play with levels and curves? He even brings it up at 3:35 and states it's all subjective aesthetics. I'm not defending these movies but I am defending their right to take any artistic privilege that they choose to use regardless of whether you or I agree with them. Did you not stop and think that maybe the point is that they DON'T want to look like the Spider-Man trilogy? Especially since those previous films don't belong in their current MCU. And VFX is a whole other beast, in these current films they don't crush their blacks on so they can't hide effects within them, it takes a whole lot more to make CG characters, beams, lasers, explosions etc. look anywhere near believable.

[@kingofwakanda6899]

I came in prepared to hate this because I am a HUGE Marvel fan, but I actually really liked it, and agree 100% with everything you said. Please do more, I would definitely watch!

[@Telarius]

I think they do it to seem more gritty, and realistic.

[@digitalvii]

Izora Taioth Watch the video.

[@Telarius]

I did! Finished it!

[@caramelheaven]

wouldn't want it to not feel realistic with all those average people over there jumping off buildings and shit

[@hellothere3371]

catatacat 9 like who?

[@ctpomg3681]

What part about super heroes is realistic?

[@abhin.v4981]

Now I know why I loved the cinematography of DC more than marvel.

[@gamedude108]

Russian Spy everything is so gray in marvel now. The joker cinematography is way better as so as the old marvel movies they had so much color than now

[@ryanmudd3840]

The new thing they got right...

[@teddng1828]

Russian Spy haha very funny

[@Tekkenandgaming]

romanoff i disagree, most marvel movies look cheap that’s because they are made by a studio that dictates everything and doesn’t let the directors actually make a good looking movie.

[@arslaanahmad9660]

@romanoff laughs on u my kid

[@sarahalmisned1936]

Finally it has been put into words! I’ve always felt like their was something off with marvel movies, specifically the colors but i couldn’t pin point what it was . I know almost nothing about cinematography but I’ve always preferred dc’s shooting style over marvels , but preferred marvel movies as a whole.

[@rahulraheja6919]

If you look at the last shot of the spiderman homecoming trailer the colours are very bright and pops out

[@DanJam]

Rahul Raheja That's Sony. They use their own utilities and have their own post production teams.

[@jacobbastian1849]

Rahul Raheja Sony that's why

[@Gemnist98]

No, Marvel made the movie, Sony is just distributing it and having final creative control.

[@ArsenikInc]

Vibrant colours make a lot more sense for Spiderman. The story is supposed to be youthful and witty, especially against the backdrop of the other far more serious MCU movies, and even the Spiderman movies that came before this one.

[@umangkayastha7422]

This video made me realize that Marvel's color grading is same in all of its movies, full flat and low contrast

[@henriquefernandes3447]

Thank God Guardians of the Galaxy Vol.2 fixes that problem.

[@umangkayastha7422]

Henrique Fernandes Yeah!!

[@orphious885]

Umang Kayastha the earth only has one sun. Why would natural outdoor sunlight in one movie look completely different from outdoor sunlight in a different same-world movie, besides the scenery.

[@Thepunchdownking]

Umang Kayastha except gotg2

[@umangkayastha7422]

Da White boy 503 yup! It's a progress!

[@dhanarputra555]

The problem is when the audiences like the movie then possibly become newbie fans, an objective discussion become much harder to be accepted. Just like MCU fans.

[@gyuriousjang563]

I think it's their way of making the films seem more realistic and mature instead of doing that on the scripts. Its still light hearted and easy to watch for the masses without losing its seriousness as a superhero movie. Otherwise It'll just become a kid's movie.

[@MrConstantine02]

What if I told you..... they already are "kids movies", that just happen to be watched by adults and teenagers too?

[@BlazingOwnager]

I'd tell you that you were probably wrong since most movies with the primary focus being children don't include things like images of someone's mother having her throat crushed. Not saying they're super serious, but I am saying they're targeting the same crossover audience as, say, Indiana Jones. Which were loved by many kids, but not really kids movies.

[@sabinea.4532]

BlazingOwnager on point!!

[@maximeteppe7627]

those are not serious movies, not by a long shot. And the music videos, or movies like it follows and some parts of the neon demon have a better use of color within the restrains of the muted look. And i feel the "flattened" look fits for meditative movies, not fast action movies, not even action thrillers.

[@oniyoda]

So lion king isn't a kids movie cause mufasa dies?

[@archib0ld1]

You forgot to mention that Marvel has forgettable villians as well besides Loki.

[@RotA-Kaleido]

It wasn't a criticism on the content of the movies, dude...

[@archib0ld1]

+Kaleido Games Last time I checked, movie scores and gradients were considered part of the movie...dude...

[@hcxwj]

Sensible Bear he said "it wasn't a criticism on the content of the movies, dude..." meaning as in this video was literally just looks based criticism, not movie based.

[@archib0ld1]

TOY0BOY0 I'm aware of this. However, in the video Phillips says his two major issues with Marvel's approach is: 1) the generic unmemorable scores and 2) the color grading. Phillips did not say "my two major look-based issues", he simply said their *general* problems with their approach. My original post was simply me introducing a third major issue that i felt isn't addressed enough, the forgettable villains. The guy I replied to must have misunderstood the context of my comment.

[@agrippa.the.cosmonaut-wiz]

The point of this video wasn't to be nitpicky on MARVEL, you moron.

[@CaffeineRedSquirrel]

Answer, because they are super expensive trailers for the next super expensive trailer. Give DC all the shit you want, at least the film makers care about cinematography.

[@TUkrLad]

Caffeine Red Squirrel BvS had the most beautiful cinematography ive ever seen in recent years

[@Snoopydog-zy3kw]

Caffeine Red Squirrel I'd rather have a movie with good movies, characters and great stories. Than a movie that looks pretty.

[@니콜슨잭]

DC, where filmmakers care about cinematography, but not its characters...

[@hemantkarasala5767]

Actually, Snyder only cares about cinematography xD Creating great shots and moments. Not caring about content. Nerd Writer has a video on this.

[@1000aaronaaronaaron]

Caffeins its hilarious how ironicly wrong you are. the cas is the exact opposite. MARVEL makes good movies that stand fantastic on their own while dc has mad 2 hour long trailers that are just meant to look cool. you fail miserably. and so do DC at "storytelling. marvel has story and has single movies that are good on their own. their universe just makes it better. it has never felt rushed or like they were trailer for oter movies like dc has done. BvS might as well hae literally been called: "we have to do what marvel took many many years to di and do it in one movie so that means our trailer has to be 3 hours" and i would have maybe even enjoyed watching more. smh marvel has done nothing closeto what you claim. keep hating

[@blokey8]

On a totally non-film related note, this has helped me improve the look of the kayaking videos I make. So thanks for that, Patrick.

[@carloswachuwa13]

This has always been my issue with Marvel movies. Thank you. Side-Note: Could you release a version of the airport fight with fixed color grading?

[@galenmarek7107]

KZbin automatically blocks Civil War currently.

[@pantsgoboom]

Yep, me too. However, when I bring it up , people look at me like I'm insane. Probably because I'm also saying I like DC colors over Marvel colors and that sounds like the opposite of the internet echo chamber.

[@carloswachuwa13]

beefwaterfall Well idk if I'd say I like DC colors more- but there were a few gorgeous shots in BVS. Affleck in the Batcave is the most Batman-y thing I have seen on screen yet.

[@machinima]

Love your content bro

[@Skrenja]

I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS! Thought it was only me who noticed it. Jurassic World was also a huge offender of trash color correction.

[@lukeroughan4658]

Uncle Benja *Colour

[@MoonShocked]

*Color

[@ActiumFilms]

Jurassic World was the other end of the spectrum. A bit too saturated, and a little too blue.

[@asdfghjklzxcvbnm6874]

what the matters? color and colour is same thing, just the diff on the pronunciation.

[@asdfghjklzxcvbnm6874]

Sandon Perkins pro·nun·ci·a·tion prəˌnənsēˈāSH(ə)n/ noun noun: pronunciation; plural noun: pronunciations the way in which a word is pronounced. "spelling does not determine pronunciation"

[@YuriLifeLove]

1:30 Yes... It's need color grading... 1:32 No... That's too much...

[@ParzivalTheThird]

I think Ragnarok did it perfectly.

[@Nnoo1987]

this video is from 2016.. so yeah they did improve alot older Marvel movies looks so bad

[@leoskits5982]

Nah the day light scenes in Ragnarok are pretty bland

[@WiloPolis03]

Ragnarok is STILL my favorite MCU movie in terms of visuals. Black Panther and Doctor Strange are runner-ups though.

[@User-xw6kd]

Exactly!

[@des.9831]

Wilo Polis black panther is so visually pleasing

[@FilmRant]

Always knew there was something about Marvel movies that annoyed me. You've hit the nail on the head. I think the reason for it though is exactly what you kind of say in the video. Movies like Sicario and Spotlight use the flat looking image to portray some kind of realistic tone. I think Marvel (at least in most of their movies) want to try and portray some kind of realistic feel to them, so that's why they are flat and not as colourful as more preposterous superhero movies like Kick-Ass.

[@TheMrSONIC4]

People complain about how movies should look more grey so that they seem more realistic. Well, what's wrong with escaping reality? Isn't that what movies are for? To embark on a journey into another world where things seem a little brighter and more colorful?

[@fixatedsense448]

Jake Wetterlin no

[@PauLtus_B]

You mean watch superhero movies for _fun_?

[@natanaelrodriguez3953]

Jonah Bublitz i like the grey in Marvel movies to the point this video seems pointless because that gray is what makes the Marvel CGI the best because it looks real. I like that grey more than a lot of colourful films.

[@PauLtus_B]

+Nataneal Rodriguez It doesn't make the CGI any more believable. If you want to do that you'd be better off using some more extreme effects.

[@TheAnisrockstar]

Jake Wetterlin If the movie has impact a character development , character Portrayal , good plot that stays on course , I'll watch it no matter what if it's realistic , or that depressive sulking greyish blue hue of ZACK SNYDER .

[@94evangelion]

In hindsight, Whedon can be blamed for lack of colorful visual style for the Marvel movies because his Avengers work feel so 90s-early 00s network TV style in terms of scene composition.

[@ivosamuelgiosadominguez6649]

Actually, when it comes to cinematography I disagree. Yeah, it's still all dull grey and browns, but the shot composition itself is very nice looking and iconic.

[@aolson1111]

The hell are you talking about? The Avengers is way more colorful than modern MCU. One look at Cap's bright blue suit tells you all you need to know. It was the Russos who started this awful desaturation trend with Winter Soldier.

[@lockandreload]

@@aolson1111 this guy gets it. Tired of people sucking off the Russo Bros. They haven't done anything stylistically that doesn't rip off Whedon except worse cinematography.

[@cringekiller348]

Abu Taher dceu stangay spotted Hence the hate. Thor Ragnarok was amazing . Man of shit steel sucked

[@ohcoolawesome]

HEY PATRICK/EVERYONE. I've had the pleasure to see Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 already as I live in the Netherlands, and I'm super pleased to say that they totally nailed the color grading this time. Every facet of the problem presented in this video is tackled in GOTG Vol. 2, and it looks beautiful. In my opinion, it's the best-looking Marvel film yet, and I'm so happy that the vibrant world of GOTG got the justice in color that it deserves. Of course, I'm not saying this video is wrong. I saw this video yesterday before seeing the film, and I totally agree with everything said in the video. In fact, I've been sharing this video around to my friends whom I went to see the film with in order to show them how big of a deal the color grading in this film is comparatively to all other Marvel films. Great job on the video Patrick, I'm simply here to rejoice on Marvel's improvement. Thanks again for making this video, I've been relatively aware of this problem since Civil War but you've really helped shed light on the intricacies of the problem. You've created a coherent argument which is presented professionally, and I commend your work as a creator and as a critic. You've earned my subscription

[@byProvings]

Alexa is the standard and I'd grade Alexa footage over Red any day. Flatter the raw footage the more data can be saved in post to keep all your colors. Roger Deakins and Chivo have used the Alexa for years and get great results. It's not the camera...it's the color choices they've made in post.

[@kazo]

Exactly!

[@addtext6319]

So right! I was going to rage when he said that he's excited for the Epic-W because it'll be better than the Alexa.

[@shannon504]

Now I know why the movies aren't impressing me any more..

[@natanaelrodriguez3953]

Shannon Mc They impress more because of this form CGI looks more natural.

[@landfish7a]

kenny that's such a weak argument to make. just because we're loyal to a franchise doesn't mean we should just sit back idly when they make poor choices

[@PauLtus_B]

Well one of. The movies look bland but doing a color correction isn't going to save the entire thing. The entire thing is pretty stale in general at this point.

[@dantan1249]

Yeah. I prefer the more vibrant image. It’s more exciting to look at. Feels more premium. The dull one makes everything look like it takes place on Tuesday. Lol

[@unknown_individual7050]

I feel like that's often what movies like civil war and phase 2/3 are aiming for tbh. They want to make it seem like it's actually set in the world where you're not normally getting blue skies and perfect sunsets all the time. Whether you like that or not is up to you but I do feel that this was intentional.

[@dantan1249]

@@unknown_individual7050 I agree. I’m sure it’s intentional. It’s just not visually appealing to me. I like the groundedness but it doesn’t look like real life. It feels like I’m missing some of my color vision. There always seems to be an overcast even when there isn’t. I also think it’s the low contrast as well. It looks very flat but not in a Japanese art way. Not enough contrast between lights and darks.

[@wacksonjittemore4013]

​@@dantan1249 His color corrections remind me of early 2000s Transformers, X-Men, Daredevil, etc. Maybe Marvel's intention was looking different from most action/superhero movies of the time? That's the weird thing to me. He's like "was Marvel too stupid to use this color grading?" The same color grading that three whole Fast & Furious sequels had used before Iron Man came out. Vibrant, yeah, but definitely stale.

[@dantan1249]

@@wacksonjittemore4013 its less sensory. we aren't being aloud to see full contrast. to me its annoying. I appreciate innovation but this takes away more than it adds. I don't want early 2000s movies replicated but why take away the good qualities? idk if you wear glasses but it gives me the sensation of having slightly dirty glasses. 😂 it doesnt have to be michael bay levels but to me the current movies are too dingy. though i would say it worked in winter soldier.

[@TDK1939]

I've been saying this since Avengers. I hate how the movies replace black with grey. It just looks so dull and boring. Usually I just adjust the contrast on VLC Media Player when I watch these movies again lol

[@hashknight1]

i always felt dc movies more vibrant than marvel ones...now we know the reason

[@TUkrLad]

That is true. Snyder gets a bad rep, but in actuality, he knows about color grading more than anyone else does.

[@TheKreed-ATL]

Been saying it since MoS - Snyder nails the colorful comic look with style and MCU films look washed out. Now I understand why. Lack of black.

[@bananaempijama]

and now i realized why Marvel movies all look the same

[@GigaDonk99]

Kelvin, you're blind if you think MoS was colorful. That shit's greyer than concrete.

[@AndYouGotALetter]

It was very colorful. It's just not as colorful as the overly manufactured KZbin video endlessly cited to the contrary.

[@NoJusticeNoPeace]

I think part of the problem may be cinema owners. It's been known for a long time that many cinema owners reduce lumens in their projectors to save money on power. This results in dark and muddy images, and why people complain so many films these days are too dark to see what's happening in scenes with a lot of shadow in them. I believe Marvel is compensating for this by red-lining tone up at the top end, which, on a screen with low light, will have the effect of creating more differentiation in the grey registers where there used to be just black.

[@NoJusticeNoPeace]

Yeah, I know, tl;dr. I don't know why the fuck I bother leaving comments on KZbin, since no one ever reads them.

[@josegomez6549]

NoJusticeNoPeace I did read it, fyi. It's a nice thought. Dunno if you're right, but it's a good explanation.

[@RULaughingAtThisCrap]

That's an interesting theory. Maybe that is it because it seems like a pretty obvious problem that these movies have. They are so very grey.

[@westonkouryfan69]

im late but, mad max: fury road’s and the umbrella acacdemy’s colors are so jsksksks i love them

[@Mysikrysa]

Mad Max also didn´t overuse the CGI. The explosions were real, the wasteland was real, the cars were real... They just used CGI to merge together the scenes filmed separately.

[@noobmaster1186]

@@Mysikrysa probably one of my favorite movies