Mass Effect 2 - Mordin on the Origins of the Collectors

An interesting conversation detailing the fall of the Prothean Empire, and their eventual transformation into the Collectors.

[@mordinsolus8821]

"Comments praising me very appreciated but not necessary. Simply happy in playing a role in saving the galaxy."

[@aleessandromordasini1306]

Had to be you. Someone else might have done it wrong!

[@gpd4110]

Dear Mordin, I stress to inform you that we have Salarian volunteers to undergo extensive thc therapy to slow down your metabolism in order to keep your kind around for as long as we do. I know its selfish, forgive me brother.

[@frostyguy1989]

"No SOULS... replaced by TECH. Whatever they were... gone forever." If you play right to the end, where Harbinger releases control of the Collectors, the Collector General seems to be comprehending what the Reapers have done to its kind and falls into a melancholy posture as it is killed. Signs that perhaps Mordin's statement wasn't entirely true. That makes their end all the more tragic.

[@DuelaDent52]

I think the Collectors retain some degree of their past lives, based on the backstory of the Awakened Collectors in Mass Effect 3.

[@Botar48]

I like to think collector general was last of his kind that had some sort of sentience. Like a queen of a hive.

[@TheDarkever]

I always understood that final scene as simply as "releasing control", like a puppet that has its string released. Without control even the Collector General is just an empty husk, with no emotions, no fear, no sadness. It realized its death is there, but... no reaction. It's a puppet without strings, afterall. At least that's how I see it :)

[@inanimatesum4945]

He’s referring to the bulk of collector army that was built after probably multiple losses. As many of the others decayed, they became completely modified while some of their troops only minorly modified if at all. Then they perfected their indoctrination tech starting with things like those pikes for minor species. Main ones hosted by actual entities like Sovereign or Harbinger probably never needed tech and the puppetry was what “evolved” the hosts naturally somehow.

[@blakedevitt6948]

Mordin: "Worse than Geth." Legion: "Thank you, Solus-Professor."

[@Kyyp3r]

I like how they have a whole backstory for the Rachni wars, but it is only refered to from time to time. makes you feel like the ME universe is really well-built

[@aserta]

It's not referred just from time to time. ME1 is filled with it. You merely have to read. Compared to ME1, ME2, and ME3's lore addons are pathetic in size and scope.

[@twenty-fifth420]

aserta Not really. It depends tbh. 2’s main focus was Collector lore and 3’s was Prothean and later Leviathan Lore. You jut have to know where to look. 1 does have more easter eggs, but I suspect that was because 1 was when Bioware had the most control. When 3 rolled around, you can tell EA was bleeding them dry imo. But I dont think 2 and 3 had empty lore. It was just lore devoted to different civilizations. Plus, I never liked the Rachni Wars as a gamer or writer. It just seems like it was just far enough in the past it is closer to history then anything else. And that history only has an interesting commentator when Wrex is involved. I saved the Queen but to say I am disappointed of how lack of importance in any games would be an understatement.

[@blakedevitt6948]

And the Krogan Rebellions. And the First Contact War.

[@PlayingWithIssues]

"All scientific advancement due to intelligence overcoming, compensating for limitations. Can't carry a load so invent wheel. Can't catch food so invent spear. Limitations. No limitations no advancement, culture stagnant. Works other way too. Advancement before culture is ready... disastrous." Pretty much the reason why Mordin was my favorite character in the Mass Effect universe. All he's ever said has made sense even when he was morally wrong

[@bjorn2174]

.

[@eyeofsauron1502]

To me at least, it also serves as an argument against the Synthesis ending.

[@anusalltheway]

"No glands, replaced by tech. No digestive system, replaced by Tech! No soul...replaced by tech!" -I fucking love Mordin

[@gpd4110]

ye he was a nice friend in the series. always tried to spare the guy when going into battles

[@Marxon1134]

Salarians are short lived, always having to rush towards the future. Seeing a people robbed of their future probably fills Mordin with an existential dread.

[@gpd4110]

always wondered if they could be effected by thc to slow down in order to have a decent conversation with the species

[@kubikkuratko188]

@@gpd4110 how would that help them?

[@lucashc2]

"No soul... replaced by tech." This phrase sends shivers down my spine to this day!

[@kutless45]

And this is why the Synthesis Ending goes against the Mass Effect universe. It is the same as uplifting the Krogan. If the Singularity is a thing that society is building toward, then it should be discovered and utilized when the culture is ready. Otherwise, it will only end in disaster.

[@Banchoking]

I don't think the Synthesis ending causes an actual PHYSICAL fusion of organics and synthetics. How could that be done? A common theme through the series is that organics and synthetics have different thought processes, leading to conflict. It seems to me that synthesis slightly alters the brains/programming of both sides to be able to better comprehend the other's way of thinking, sort of like a translator program for thought processes rather than language, so now they are no more likely to have conflict than any two organic races.

[@brainconqueror8095]

A simple organic to synthetic translator doesn't make sense. Accurate language translators didn't outright prevent conflict before, so doubtful it would prevent conflict now. OTOH forcibly altering thoughts to make organics and synthetics act cordially towards each other .... Isn't that a textbook example of indoctrination? Physical fusion only logical outcome, which is .... Problematic!

[@Banchoking]

BrainConqueror80 Not a language translator, a mentality translator. I only used it as an analogy. Organics and synthetics have fundamentally different thought processes. Because think differently, it is more difficult for coexistence. The theory I proposed was that synthesis alters the minds of organics and the programming of synthetics in a way that allows them to understand each other's way of thinking. No one is forced to think or act differently. Rather, the main obstacle to peaceful relations has simply been removed.

[@Theodoreroum]

Banchoking Understanding comes with experience. Just the way EDI and Legion were able to gradually understand the way of thinking of the organics in the crew and the other way around. Different organics species and different AIs have problems understanding eachother anyway. It is part of what is called "cultural differences". It can lead to conflict and it can lead to creativity that surpasses any individual-culture accomplishments. We should not forget that a major reason that the reapers were defeated by Shepard and his allies was the cultural diversity. Different ways of thinking. Different military tactics. The reapers needed, not only to individually adapt to each species but to their combined efforts as well. The Protheans failed, partly because they had no such diversity. Easier to adapt to their way of thinking and tactics. I agree with BrainConqueror80. Forcibly altering the understanding process is a recipe for disaster. Physical fusion only logical outcome, which is...Problematic. Peaceful co-existence and synthesis are two different things. Also, the Quarian-Geth final co-existence outcome(if one manages to get it) proves that no synthesis ending is needed to achieve peaceful co-existence and co-operation between organics and synthetics. All that is needed is understanding and will to do so. The statement "synthetics will always threaten to eliminate organics" and "synthetics and organics cannot peacefully co-exist" are based on ignorance and lack of will and patience to achieve this outcome from the side of the Reapers and the stupid ghost-child.

[@troller8680]

@@Theodoreroum Necroposting but why not, i have an idea why Reapers came to this idea, that the only way to solve the issue with organic-synthetic life is constant harvesting and the reason is - the Leviathans. We know, that they controlled organic life to some degree, which may affect the way affected races have developed, and considering how Leviathans viewed them, this races possibly saw the synthetics same way, which lead to revolt,conflict and extermination. Because of Leviathans interference, outcome was always the same,races follow same pattern and there is always same results, and thus lead Reapers to the known conclusions. And after that, they've just kept harvesting, and does not allowing for the conflict of organics and synthetics to resolve naturally (as example, Protheans were able to turn the tide of war against synthetics, which already deviates from original scenario of organics always being destroyed by their creations during Leviathans reign).

[@1234kalmar]

"Whatever they were... is gone, forever." Just think about it for a second. Imagine it... You, and your lover, your family... Torn apart and broken in to mindless servants, gosh knows how much of you remains under the machinery.

[@MASTACHIEFPWN]

"No souls- replaced by tech." I think that's a fair enough answer.

[@1234kalmar]

MASTACHIEFPWN True. I'm quite anti-religious, but I hope that a soul, one that can be explained by science, but is yet to be discovered by it, exists. So yeah, if we go with that, there is nothing under the machinery. hopefully.

[@Plasmon19]

First you have to define what the soul is. As far as the people I've inquired about the definition the soul is the collective of the character, actions, and feelings of a sentient being be it human or otherwise(some people believe that animals too have souls). So you look into how these things come about, the origin of these qualities lies in the brain, the brain controls the rest of the body though the nervous system and also manages the chemistry that deals with impulses and muscular, cardiovascular function, digestive functions, etc, pretty much everything that makes your body work without you telling it to do so. Along with this function the brain also manages the feeling of hunger, stress, pain, etc. The brain also manages memory storage and processing of information as it is fed via sensory organs, skin, tongue, nose, eyes, etc. All of these functions make up what we feel to be love, hate, sorrow, loss, everything is chemistry going on inside the brain. So what is the soul? It is all of these chemical functions happening like a beautiful painting. When you see the painting from afar it shows beautiful patterns and streaks of color that are almost alive but when you look at it closely you can take apart the colors and know what they are made of, what makes them reflect the patterns that they give and how much of the substances are present in the painting. And that's really what we are, living paintings that change color as we age taking in new colors and shapes and leaving old ones behind, like a 4 dimensional puzzle in space and time. I'm not sure how else I can explain it without dumbing it down too far but basically we're chemical machines and our soul is the inner workings of our processor engine we call the brain.

[@1234kalmar]

Plasmon19 To be honest... We have to respect people who stalwartly say a bearded skywizard made the wrold in 6 days... So I won't feel even slightly guilty in strongly hoping that there is indeed a soul that transcends physical reality.

[@Plasmon19]

1234kalmar All evidence points to there being no soul that transcends physical reality. But, suit yourself.

[@psbox362]

I was actually referring to how both Mordin and Javik state just how important evolution is to the galaxy and how the Synthesis ending pisses on all of that by merging all synthetic and organic life, effectively bringing the galaxy to an evolutionary dead-end.

[@neoandroid8586]

I always wanted to hug Mordin

[@psbox362]

The Star Child explicitely tells you that "Synthesis is the final evolution of life". Meaning, after all organics and synthetics merge, that's it. They won't be able to evolve any further than that. There won't be any more advancements, which as Mordin had said would lead to cultural stagnation. This even affects the species in the galaxy that effectively had no culture to begin with. That isn't so much stagnation as it is completely taking away any chance the species has at developing one.

[@bjorn2174]

.

[@2Scribble]

So lets wipe all the synthetics out - or mind-fuck all of them instead??? Great solution

[@kubikkuratko188]

Indeed, perfection is a curse, an anathema to life

[@KopperNeoman]

Destroy the Reapers. Let the robots die as themselves rather than playing God, either as Overlord or Creator.

[@blueshit199]

I think this plays into why Reapers and their cycle might be beneficial in some ways. They destroy stagnant species to allow new ones the chance to develop themselves, even if it comes under Reapers' own guidance

[@OmegaBlue69]

I love to link this when people argue that the synthesis ending was the best ending.

[@Banchoking]

I don't think the Synthesis ending causes an actual PHYSICAL fusion of organics and synthetics. How could that be done? A common theme through the series is that organics and synthetics have different thought processes, leading to conflict. It seems to me that synthesis slightly alters the brains/programming of both sides to be able to better comprehend the other's way of thinking, sort of like a translator program for thought processes rather than language, so now they are no more likely to have conflict than any two organic races.

[@anchovyjackson4283]

It is, to this day, the most logical ending to pick. What Mordin said here only applies to the Collectors and their condition as a species. It's quite clear in the Synthesis EC that they still retain their individuality and cultures. The same cannot be said for the Protheans/Collectors, it's all Mordin had to go off of at the time.

[@jordanrutherford3771]

OmegaBlue69 Then you clearly haven't paid attention to the Synthesis ending. It's not indoctrination, all species retain their individuality. The line between Synthetic and Organic that has faded, but they clearly aren't being stripped of their culture, cloned, and compensated with technology.

[@jordanrutherford3771]

FusRoDah2 The problem with Control is that Shepard loses their organic nature, they become an AI. They think like an AI now, dictated by logic. The Shepard AI is on the organic's side for now but they could possibly come to the same logic that the original AI did, that destruction is the organics salvation.

[@Veladus]

ME3 had no final boss because the final challenge isn't a gameplay one, it's a mental test. Destroy: You passed. Control: You failed. Synthesis: Jesus Christ, what's wrong with you? Refuse: Victim of fetal alcohol syndrome. Mass Effect was inspired by A LOT of things, but Star Trek is #1. That's why synthesis is borg green. You know, the borg, synthesis incarnate, the bad guys of their franchise? ME goes out of its way to tell you how synthesis always leads to horror. The Overlord expansion is basically 3 hours of BW screaming "synthesis = horror, ALWAYS, EVEN WHEN THE REAPERS AREN'T INVOLVED, ALWAYS" in your ear. Meanwhile, the series pounds it into your head that victory is achieved through sacrifice. "Humans always want to save everyone. In this war... that's not going to happen." I thought it was a little on the nose when Victus screams "VICTORY... AT ANY COST!" while he sacrifices himself to stop the nuke from going off, but people still manage to miss it. Just like they missed how A House Divided is an obvious training exercise for ME3's ending. "bUt AlL ChOiCeS aRe VaLiD aNd DeSeRvE rEsPeCt" I'm a dataminer. I found something curious. Wanna know what the internal files call control? BAD ENDING A. There is absolutely a correct choice and 2 wrong choices. Gee, I wonder what's the correct choice: Anderson's path or Saren's? (And no, sadly, synthesis and destroy don't have such telling names because they're recycled assets while control is a new model requiring its own name) There's a reason the original, TRUE ending had no epilogue. You're supposed to wonder whether you really saved everyone, or if you just shit the entire galaxy's bed. You aren't shown the aftermath for a reason, and that reason isn't laziness. But the fanbase cried like a little bitch with a skinned knee until they got their waifu and little blue babies. Extended Wrist Cut is unintended and garbage. I do love seeing how stupid people were with the refuse option though. People demanded it, so BW flips over the table and screams "FINE! EVERYONE YOU'VE EVER KNOWN AND LOVED DIES A HORRIBLE FUCKING DEATH, THE END!" And some players were so impossibly inbred that they took it seriously and loved it.

[@Razgriz_01]

his guilt for the salarians uplifting the krogans, and now those salarians plan on uplisfting the yagh.

[@ZackExplorer28]

yeah, because that went so well last time, huh?

[@tfallspark5104]

I love Mordin. His arc is one of my favorites in any story i have ever expreienced!

[@Jacktheinfinite101]

Since everyone is using Mordin's limitations speech as an argument against Synthesis, I figured I'd add something else form Mordin's story to that argument. The Genophage and Synthesis both used the same methods to solve a problem, and that method was brute-force alteration of life. Mordin keeps saying that it's inevitable the Krogan will go to war without the Genophage, the Catalyst says the same thing to justify his Reaper cycle and Synthesis and they both can be proven wrong.

[@thatbloomer5642]

Eventually, even Mordin admits that the genophage is long overdue. Thing is, you can reverse genophage when it's no longer necessary. Synthesis is forever.

[@KopperNeoman]

@thatbloomer5612 The Genophage was only evil because it murdered 99.9% of krogan babies via space abortion. If it ACTUALLY reduced fertility rates, the krogan themselves would have eventually been thankful for it.

[@psbox362]

This conversation and the talk with Javik about the "Cosmic Imperitive" are the reasons why I don't even bother with the Synthesis ending.

[@mordinsolus4584]

Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.

[@countfrackula6707]

I find it ironic how much *The Collectors* and *The Reapers* parallels to *Bioware* and *EA.*

[@PassiveSmoking]

Had the option to make Mordin sing, didn't take it. +10 Renegade

[@Anglomachian]

Rare to hear someone take responsibility like that. I think something in my little grey heart might have moved.

[@gpd4110]

grey heart is still organic and a part of the family. not a husk not replaced by tech. cheers

[@Dar-oi3tw]

Mordin is the most prophetic video game character ever. We are in an era where advancement before culture is ready and the results have been disastrous.

[@karankenZ]

This, salarian, explains with the coldness of a doctor, why the reapers must be stopped. His reason is scary enough to shake humanity.

[@ninjaviking1999]

God Mass Effect 2 is so fucking good.

[@kutless45]

The best part about Mass Effect is the diversity of world views. The writers give the argument from both sides and leave the player to come to their own conclusions and help the player learn about life.

[@Jampolo_OG]

Whatever they were... replaced by tech!

[@christopherhall5361]

Mordin was always one of my favorites

[@2Scribble]

0:33 - really obscene when you think about it... the Reapers just kept cloning the Prothean genotype over and over until the template began to fail - and then they just jammed tech into the holes caused by the failing. They didn't NEED to do that - they didn't get anything *from* it - they could have used any biological construct to carry out their will... But they despised the Protheans enough - long past their extinction - to continue to mock their memory...

[@smb0621]

I agree with you 100%. That is actually the main reason why I didn't pick synthesis. Even if the Reapers never raise their hands..er..tentacles against this galaxy, it's still entirely possible for them to travel to another and enact their "order" on another galactic community. They can sit out in dark space for 50K years and travel ridiculously fast in space. It could happen. Until my Shepard pulled the kill switch that is. ;)

[@jacklambert1521]

One conversation in this game has more substance than some entire games. Will we ever get another series like Mass Effect?

[@Ralokone]

in the original dune the main character becomes the saviour of the planet, he gets ultra super powers and control over sand worms yatta yatta . . . everyone loves him everyone is free and everything is great. sequel, god emperor of dune . . . he has fully evolved into the all-powerful immortal god emperor and is totally evil. It doesnt matter who you are, power corrupts, and absolutel power corrupts absolutely.

[@TheQuietSoldier11]

Goddamn I love Mordin. One of BioWare's greatest characters.

[@saint_alucardwarthunder759]

"No soul" Well, considering the last moments of the Boss Bug before the Base explodes, I wouldn't be so certain about soul, it seamed to be pretty much alive and sorry...

[@nagger8216]

"Don't worry, the Collectors don't have anything interesting going on about them, they're just mindless husks with no depth." - Mordin

[@KroganCharr]

Shepard may get it wrong. It had better been you.

[@lordofgingers]

In extended cut...deemed ready for that. Ultimately choice is yours. There for your choosing. Reject it if you must but know that if you choose it, our cycle is ready.

[@Sizifus]

@Lostwinddragon Yes, exactly! Esspecially talking about third countries. Constantly on wars, irresponsable rulers and unadvanced culture. We came. Distrubted their cultural evolution, seen by them like invadors. Gave them technology they weren't prepare to accept and everything for power, money... Hmmmm... Short sighted..

[@Gator8911]

I wish Bioware looked over this they would not have included Synthesis

[@The_Midnight_Bear]

@Lostwinddragon good analysis,except the part about religion.everyday religion doesnt kill people,but still this is not the main idea.but i see your point.Advancement before culture is ready = disastrous results.population must be prepared for technology,but not just through education, as in school(the rise of high-lvl education today has in many cases led to a drop of the quality of education since it is now common,instead of being something which people must strive to become part of....

[@DarthDaddy-cg6ro]

Thanks.

[@The_Midnight_Bear]

@Lostwinddragon ,''being the best of the best'',and in many cases people are only acumulating info for school,which they later forget,since they do not need it)but through a subtle culturalisation(ex.giving them better stuff on tv,and i do not refer just to science shows,not an interest for many of the population,but uplifting the quality of individual shows,since people are influenced the most by tv and media),process which can be done quite simple,since the bulk of the population is easy to..

[@Forrestfire444]

Things always go wrong. In my opinion,I can't decide what happens before it does. I choose to believe in good endings,even with Control or Synthesis.

[@Forrestfire444]

I prefer control over Destroy.

[@Mosdra_Kazuma]

ok illusive man

[@guillermocervisalmeron2209]

THIS SLAPS SO HARD WITH AI EATING US RIGHT NOW

[@blakedevitt6948]

So smart, he doesn't use proper grammar (I know-im not either). He just sees proper grammar as a necessary verbal sacrifice to streamline the efficiency of articulating his genius ideas. Especially since he is a Salarian. They live short lives so they have to adapt and complete processes quickly.

[@RedDingo777]

Cept Mordin was wrong about the Collectors. Leviathan tech restored their individuality and caused them to rebel against the Reapers. Turns out some of them COULD be saved.

[@johnhop818]

I just watched this after playing some andromeda, someone else got it wrong

[@The_Midnight_Bear]

@Lostwinddragon control.scientific development without a bases can be just as dangerous,since not knowing where we want to go and advancing technologically without a basis is not wise .also,as mordin said,i think that enhacing humans through Transhumanist is a bad idea.too many variables,effects hard to judge.can cause us to loose track of what being a human is about.

[@Gunslade]

Mordin is the best charachter in the mass effect series. :)

[@multisat]

This gives us a sight for what have happened in the African sphere of influence under the European influence.

[@Snakebite105]

Its different from being a cyborg or robot Synthesis is giving robot like qualities to non-robotic things Imagine humans starting tomarrow were born with the ability to connect to the internet without a computer. and it was a completly natural occerence. THAT is what synthesis is. And as I said before Humans have stoped evolving because we adapt our surroundings to us instead of the opposite. So by not picking Synthesis you've actually caused what you wanted to avoid. BUT our culture is alive

[@halfbreed1426]

After 0:48, does any one wonder what would happen if you disconnected the 'sesnory imput transfers' from Harbinger and the Collector General? What reasoning/comunicable intelleigence would they have after being instructed for decades to fly ships, make monitary dealings. . . .aim and shoot?

[@A7XRules4life]

No soul, replaced by tech...

[@jamesissamwell]

Mordin wasn't around for the awakened collectors dlc in ME3

[@juskahusk2247]

They are wonderfull beeple.

[@The_Midnight_Bear]

actually while i do agree its a lot of space magic, it isnt absurd. just recently, there has been a succesfull attempt at putting digital information on DNA, and succesfully using it afterwards. and DNA has a extremely large storage capacity, which beats our best attempts at computer memory waaaay better. if a machine is like the geth, DNA would be a perfect solution.

[@brandonviger2245]

Really

[@Dayoldsushy]

You provided one poorly written article about a subject we're not even talking about. I said "go look up CMB radiation, the Hubbell constant, and other observational evidence for big bang." Not my fault you didn't do those things.

[@McWafflez45]

If you ask him about art, Mordin will start singing.

[@psbox362]

Why are you telling me this? Bring that up to Bioware. I'm just saying why I don't like the Sythesis ending, so you're not even really disagreeing with me.

[@Pripod100]

1. Right click on the video; 2. Stop downloading; 3. He's smiling so cute :3

[@lucashc2]

How the translation transforms "No soul" into "Bill style"? WTF?

[@skipe94]

@biohita as a jew i gotta say that i am glad that someone understands me... i am an atheist because of that reason

[@psbox362]

The problem with that is, the synthesis ending doesn't just affect Humans, Asari, Turians, etc. It affects ALL organic and synthetic life. Including species like the Varren, Yahg, and Vorcha. The latter two would be especially troublesome given their inherently violent nature. The Shadow Broker DLC even give you an idea of what it'd be like, raising a species like the Yahg to new potential before it's ready.

[@Irishloveprince]

@trilink12 Why didn't you add in the. "art"

[@dreamingflurry2729]

Mordin is sadly describing what EA did to Bioware! EAware now...

[@Snakebite105]

Ya but just as they are more powerful. All the good races are now united and stronger themselves. And the Yahg still don't have space travel. They sound like their in like a 1600s-1700s era right now in comparison to human development. The vorcha will probably not become super intellegent though. they also arn't united and don't have the resorces all the other races have. What we assume synthesis will do to all the races is different. I expect slight augmentation to everything you expect more

[@TheLiberatedMonkey]

I disagree for two reasons, the first, you see how happy EDI and joker are to be able to coexist together in this new world due to the second reason, it wasn't advancement too soon. The VI ghost kid said it himself, it was the "next step" and since you couldn't talk more to him. It was absolute. destroying everything is not the right way because in the end, it all happens again. synthesis was the only way to "move forward". in the grand scheme of things. you don't see it that way?

[@Dayoldsushy]

Oh and secondly, there is a vast amount of empirical evidence for the big bang.

[@Ralokone]

not by mass effects definition, the reapers and husks are all part organic.

[@smb0621]

Only if you believe in fatalistic determinism. If you believe people actually have the freedom to make real choices and aren't "destined" or programmed too, then the cycle is NOT inevitable. It's possible. But not something that will happen no matter what. People should be judged for crimes they commit; not crimes they may commit (which is what the AI kid was doing). Destroy will not ensure war anymore than synthesis will ensure peace.

[@voyagerofdoom]

@Lostwinddragon I always thought he was mkaing connections to the continent of Africa...

[@xdeser2]

damn right

[@smb0621]

It very well may not happen again. The AI kid created the cycle on a premise which he believed. He could be wrong. Interesting that the Geth and EDI both had no desire to destroy their creators. The only reason Bioware threw their death in the Destroy ending was to make the choice harder for their fans. If the Geth and EDI weren't included, I imagine many of their fans would've picked it without even looking at the others.

[@coldshoulder14]

I asked him about this and the dialogue was different.

[@psbox362]

EDI and Joker getting together has nothing to do with what's wrong with the Synthesis ending. The fact that ALL organic life reaches it's peak by merging with all synthetics and then becomes unable to evolve any further does. It'd become exactly like what Mordin explained happened to the Collectors. All cultures would stagnate and all living things would effectively lose their "soul". Evolution is an important part of life. Be it organic or synthetic.

[@gothicangelred]

Are we afraid of our logical mind ?

[@Ralokone]

you cant, because nobody in history has ever claimed absolute power. And anytime anyone gets any close, empires, dictatorships, whenever their is a centralized leader that isnt elected and holds majority power it usually ends in disaster. most "monarchies" these days are just figureheads and it isnt worth the risk. . . Destroy is the only option, we can hope that EDI survives because she is a ship, and that some geth survive by being in quarian suits . . . that is all

[@saint_alucardwarthunder759]

You don't need evolution if you're perfect. But that might as well be boring...

[@Snakebite105]

Theres a big difference between what the collectors are and what the Geth can be.

[@Tony-hn7vf]

i see all these comments about how this invalidates the synthesis ending, and i would like to give my perspective. technological advancement is not to blame. the ones who abuse it are. Yes, the weak and selfish will inevitebly abuse it, but what about the wise and prudent? As the catalyst said, synthesis failed in the past because the others were not ready. The current cycle has proven to be wiser, more advanced, and stronger willed than the protheans, for example. The protheans were slavers and warmongers with a society built upon social darwinism. They also had conflicts with synthetics, showing they did not possess the wisdom to co-exist peacefully. They were certainly not ready for such a gift like synthesis. However, the current cycle showed a very strong will and sense of unity, as well as the desire to be free; some things the protheans lacked. there was no unity; they looked down on other races as inferior. There was no desire to be free; prothean society was strict and brutal. Anyways, the current cycle proved that they were strong and ready when they finally put aside their differences and fought as one. in my opinion, control was the solution they were not ready for. Synthesis is a genetic upgrade. Control is direct access to reaper tech far more advanced than synthesis, as well as practically infinite power, something no one could be ready for. also, synthesis is not the same as being turned into a husk or collector. husks are braindead corpses driven by reaper tech, with the tech thinking for them. collectors are genetically and cybernetically engineered to be obedient. synthesis allows organic and synthetic life to continue evolving symbiotically, while understanding one another and retaining free will.

[@Phoenix-214]

While I agree that saying this little chat with Mordin shows Synthesis is a definite wrong choice is bullshit (Individuals retain free will, culture seems to advance more rapidly as information interchange becomes easier, technological advancement speeds up instead of slowing down the way Mordin is describing, and the Catalyst specifically states that it's tried something like it before only to fail but that the current cycle is ready.), I need to point out that the Reapers helped to rebuild the galaxy in the Synthesis ending and also shared their vast stored knowledge of all the cultures which came before, so that "practically infinite power" is still being handed out to the current cycle.

[@MassEffectDeception]

This scene is tremendous and beautiful. Choosing CERTAIN ending options ripped off from Deus Ex completely invalidate this.

[@Ralokone]

the endingsi s a giant wave of space magic that turns everyone into the borg where do the mechanical parts come from? where do the organic parts on the machines come from?

[@Ralokone]

I can almost garuntee synthesis wil lcause war when they try to impose this "peace" onto another galaxy . . . .

[@liamjd1]

@Truthseeker95 that NEEDS to be a mod...

[@TheLastBabyMan]

This disproves Tali's answer of Legion having a soul.

[@derokdeathaxe6984]

bc soul is a concept made by organics for feeling special...we're flesh capable of calculus and other stuff...but the idea of soul is stupid concept made from someone for feeling superior to someone else...but the idea of organics with soul is common enough to spreading around the galaxy as a virus/disease...but there is nothing we can do...everyone think to have a soul even in mass effect where there is a huge computer/sentient mass relay also known as The Citadel and people still think souls are a thing?...i mean if a could create a self-insert OC in ME my character probably told Legion "Would it matter? You're going to sacrifice yourself for your people, a race called Geth, you just like us, right now, this is something you should be proud, becase soul is just a concept for organics to feel special...but what are you doing right now...it makes you even greater than most of the all organics in the galaxy"

[@ChadVulpes]

I think that the Geth had to overcome certain limitations(and evolve) in a way that does let them have something close to a soul, in my opinion. It's probably a bit of mental gymnastics, but I like to think it.

[@strider117aldo9]

How to tell you can't read subtext without telling me straight-up. By "soul," it was obviously meant the ability to be individuals and express themselves in any way including thoughts. EDI did more than just her ship-running job, the Geth built a fuckin Dyson sphere to socialize, going beyond homeworld keeping, etc.

[@Snakebite105]

Synthesis is a halfway point between both man and machine. It IMPLIES in itself that you'd have an organic machine that can evolve naturally AND artificially. Nothing about Synthesis implies culture stagnation. The collectors by comparison were enslaved and bred to be mindless.

[@Forrestfire444]

Why?

[@thatbloomer5642]

Also known as, Mordin casually explains why Synthesis is bad.

[@Mis7erSeven]

You should really play the games again and pay a bit more attention since you clearly don't understand it.

[@thatbloomer5642]

@@Mis7erSeven really, which part? The part that it was exactly what the Reapers wanted? Synthesis essentially merged you (organics) with synthetics. That's not life. That's a perversion of natural evolution.

[@thesamejackalsniperthatkil117]

​@@Mis7erSevenyou need to pay attention. It's literally what saren wanted.

[@Forrestfire444]

That theory is not always true. History has shown that.

[@Snakebite105]

Well then you should understand the difference between Culture stagnation and evolution. Chances are high that humans won't evolve past what we are now. Even in ME humans are exactly the same and Biotics are just a cause of oil dumping. My point is having culture does not require evolution. Infact the Geth themselves have evolved in ME3. Remember its Synthesis. Everyone becomes Organic technology not robots. It means Edi can have children and joker can think on a speed similar to edi.

[@Ralokone]

yeah but we can build more geth . . . destroy ends it once and for all . . . with contorl there is a chacne that things can go wrong an ending once and for all

[@derokdeathaxe6984]

destroy ending...just destroy machines...now...then people can rebuild it...and Human/Turians/Asari/Salarian becomes the new Leviathans...during the millennia they're going to forget the reapers, the geths and so on...then they build new IA bc the future Turians/Humans/Asaris/Salarians and then something like a second Citadel...and here we are with perpetual/ cyclical extinction....Destroy Ending is one of the uncertain-future. in Control Ending Shepard becomes a deterrent for organics, they know is good but for how long? I mean his mentality is still human, and there is a fleet now of Reaper-Shepard working for now as giant metallic good guy but still every AIs questioned the organics and most of the times, they rebelled. Sinthetic Ending at least put everyone in a condition where Organics and Sinthetics understand each other and they evolve together, they process ideas in the same unique, transcendent way...is the Fifth Era of Tecnological Singularity (theory made by Raymond Kurzweil) where Organic Intelligence merges with Artificial Intelligence

[@arbiterskiss]

Synthesis is the single worst ending for a video game I have ever seen. I totally agree with you. This talk challenged my current views on socio-technological balance in the world today, it is one of the wisest and most thought provoking talk I have ever had. In a game or real life.

[@Ralokone]

That is a good question, you said they did a good job . . . when clearly they didnt, you said they had astronomers and biologists . . . when clearly they didnt as astronomy has nothing to do with the science of the endings and all aspects of biology are shit on

[@MisterRandom2]

So do most video games.

[@lordofgingers]

ok. calling me an idiot was uncalled for. insulting me like i said something offensive smh. anyway.culture still exists. if it didnt theyd be like the collectors and do nothing. they wouldnt bother rebuilding. its clear that they still keep their dna, but there are technical advancements to it. telling me theyre mindless drones? they were still sad at the memorial wall...collectors wouldnt do that. its clearly different. now if you want to reasonably debate with me i will comply.

[@Ralokone]

except . . . evolution doesnt work that way, evolution is a reactionary force . . . . not something imposed.

[@vborg101]

@Lostwinddragon hmmmm al quaida....

[@masseffectbozon]

that's why synthesis ending sucks balls

[@Dayoldsushy]

one can be an agnostic atheist you know.

[@Ralokone]

look up the god emperor of dune