I just want to thank you for your time in making these amazing videos for the Rav4! You have saved me a lot of money ! Thank you again!
@MasterJacks5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for saying that! Glad they're doing some good.
@4O4FileNotFound4 жыл бұрын
Very helpful thanks very much.
@NathanCroucher2 жыл бұрын
So much waste of ATF fluid doing this job, i guess it pays off in the long run.
@Mustafghan3 жыл бұрын
Have a 2008 Rav4 with 125k miles. It's starting to do some shuddering. Two questions: Does the shudder additive come as part of the fluid or is it a separate additive? 2:Should I do a complete flush of the system if I haven't done any fluid change/flush before. Thanks
@frederickneal4781 Жыл бұрын
Your video is ruined by not telling people to replace the gasket on the drain plug! YOU KNOW IT NEEDS TO BE REPLACED BECAUSE IT WILL LEAK IF YOU DON'T. This could have been a good video.
@randomz52084 жыл бұрын
how do you know if only need drain and fill or fluid flush? (Rav 2002, has been with my mom since 2007,, now at 131000kms odo. thank you
@jdevola2225 жыл бұрын
Hi, I am planning to flush and also change the filter. Should I do the flush before or after changing the filter?
@MasterJacks5 жыл бұрын
Change the filter first, put fresh fluid in the pan, then flush.
@njsongwriter4 жыл бұрын
How do you know when your transmission fluid is at operating temperature for your final fluid level check? Also, why does Toyota say that WS fluid and type T-IV fluid are not compatible but the multi-vehicle Valvoline fluid claims to work for both? Someone is not being honest with us...
@karll54923 жыл бұрын
Because Valvoline "recommends" the fluid for those type they are not licensed been using it in place of T-IV fluid with no problems though
@maritimezhang3 жыл бұрын
Look at the temperature bar when you are driving after 15-20 min. That’s the operating temp.
@njsongwriter3 жыл бұрын
@@maritimezhang That, my friend, is the engine operating temperature unless you have a vehicle with two temperature gauges in which case one would be the coolant and the other could be ATF temperature but it rare for a vehicle to have an ATF temperature gauge unless it's part of a towing package.. The transmission can take considerably longer to reach operating temperature that the engine takes depending on whether your driving uphill or downhill, at highway speeds or around town and what the ambient temperature is. I have driven for 30 minutes and my transmission still isn't at operating temperature. Yes, I do have an ATF temperature gauge.
@PowerrPundit2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for making these videos!! So nice to have a visual reference with torque specs and all!
@lobrow76612 жыл бұрын
Great how-to. Thank you! Trying to plan how to do this job solo. I guess after I drain and refill the pan, then I could pull that return line, start the motor and pump out about two quarts. Quickly turn off the motor, add two quarts new fluid. Repeat a couple/few times till clean fluid pumps out. Correct?
@MasterJacks2 жыл бұрын
That would work just fine!
@30jase304 жыл бұрын
Excellent video! Just what I was looking for!
@pomelodrive215 жыл бұрын
Excellent job mate 👍👍👍👍👍🤑🤑🤑🤑😊😊😊😊
@sebastarias5 жыл бұрын
So, all the fluids used in the flashing have to be thrown away?
@MasterJacks5 жыл бұрын
Yeah, the idea is to flush out as much of the old fluid as you can until it begins to come out clear.
@evanj3134 жыл бұрын
@masterjacks My mechanic recommended I do a transmissions flush with shudder additive because the torque converter is shuddering intermittently around 30-45 mph. Do your think I should?
@MasterJacks3 жыл бұрын
That sounds like a good recommendation
@evanj3133 жыл бұрын
@@MasterJacks the transmission fluid is a light brown color. Would it help if I didn’t do the flush, but just changed the fluid?
@MasterJacks3 жыл бұрын
Because you have a shutter, it would benefit from a full fluid exchange (flush) to restore the fluid's friction modifiers and what-not. A drain and fill will be better than nothing, but a full service would give you a better idea of knowing if your problem can be resolved with fluid or not.
@evanj3133 жыл бұрын
@@MasterJacks Thank you so much!
@fulanodetal40063 жыл бұрын
@@evanj313 did you ever change the trans fluid? My rav4 is having the shudder and I want to change the trans oil, if you did it, did it fix the shudder? Any transmission problems after changing the fluid? Thank you.
@Alexx25002 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much
@scotianovan14 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video, did the flush on my 2011 Rav4 with my son and it went well. Only problem is checking the level afterwards - difficult to see where it is when the engine is running. The nice new clean fluid is much lighter than the old dirty stuff and hard to see clearly against the steel dipstick. When it's cold and engine is not running (i.e. sitting all night), the level is relatively easy to see, and about half way between hot and cold levels. When I start the engine, shift through the gears, and then check, it's very difficult to tell where the level is, but looks like maybe just at the low cold mark. When it's hot (driven about 10 miles) and running, it's even more difficult to see as the liquid is very thin with the heat. Any tips on how to get the exact level? What is it normally at when cold and not running - is that adequate to get it in the right ballpark? I'm looking for the lowest dry spot on both sides, but not too obvious compared to checking motor oil level.
@MasterJacks4 жыл бұрын
You're doing all the right things. It can be very difficult to find. If you're finding it better when it's running and cold, I'd try to get it out of the cold minimum range and more towards the low end of the hot or even halfway between the two range extremes. Playing with the lighting and flipping the stick over can sometimes help in finding the dry spot.
@scotianovan14 жыл бұрын
@@MasterJacks Thanks for the input. The uncertainty of *knowing* where the level of the fluid is rather than looking for iffy dry spots in hopefully the right light, was the most frustrating part of the transmission flush. To someone experienced with this it's probably not an issue, but my experience with doing transmission flush (so far) is once in 60 years! I did figure out a reasonable way to know fairly precisely what the level is though, without any guess work. I got a 4' length of 1/4" (outside diameter) polyethylene tubing at the local hardware store, and got it straightened out by clamping it on a table (straight out) and heating with a heat gun a few times. (Comes coiled but you don't want it too curved for this.) I connected one end to the bulb from a broken turkey baster using a cork with 1/4" hole drilled in the cork - now I've got a 4' long syringe. Using the dipstick alongside the tube to set the correct distances, I used a permanent marker to make a mark around the tube to indicate when it would be exactly in as far as the dipstick goes, and four more marks indicating how far in to both cold marks and both hot mark. (For instance, when the tube is inserted as far as the dipstick would be, the "dipstick" mark is just visible at the top of the dipstick tube. When you pull the tube up a little from fully inserted, the first cold mark is then visible. Pull a little more to see the second cold mark, and so on for the hot marks. You have a dipstick mark, then a little closer to the tube end is your first cold mark, then the second cold mark, a gap, and your first and second hot marks.) Squeezing and releasing the bulb when it's only getting air is very different than when it's pulling on the fluid, so by inserting the tube down near the marks then going slowly and squeezing/releasing the bulb, you can tell *exactly* when the end is in fluid and not air. When it's just barely in the fluid and not pulling any air, you can see by your marks on the tube what it would read on the dipstick, if you could easily read the dipstick. (Make sure your polyethylene tube is clean before and as you put it in the dipstick tube.) Again, I know someone with experience doesn't need such a crutch, but I hope this may be helpful to others like me who are looking for help to determine where the heck the fluid really is. Thanks again very much for your outstanding video on the transmission flush (and all of your other great videos)!
@MasterJacks4 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing with the community. I'm glad you were able to find a method that brought confident results!
@njsongwriter4 жыл бұрын
When the engine isn't running the level on the dip-stick should be above the hot area on the dip-stick because there is no fluid being pumped into the torque converter...
@davebarbieri1380 Жыл бұрын
Or an easier, slightly more expensive way to get an accurate reading would be to remove the drain plug one final time, after the flush. After all of the fluid has drained from the pan, add 3.7 quarts, that's the capacity of the drain pan area.
@yusjallow79602 жыл бұрын
Hello Please am having a problem at the moment with my transmission is not shifting smoothly and sometimes it will not, this start happening after they change the fluid and the put 8L what can be the Couse? i need help is toyato Rav4 2008 v4
@johnm19014 жыл бұрын
Good day Master Jacks, I plan on doing the same for my 2011 Rav 4. Could you tell me more or less how many quarts did you use for this flush?
@MasterJacks4 жыл бұрын
It depends how dirty the fluid is, but if you picked up 3 gallons (8-12qts), I think you'd have plenty. I'd flush approx 8 qts through (less if it looks good before that), then stop the service and use the remaining to set the final fluid level.
@Al-bd8hm2 ай бұрын
What is the inner diameter of the hose? Thanks for the video.
@MasterJacks2 ай бұрын
@@Al-bd8hm it's been a while, but I believe 3/8 ID
@tonycarrera693 жыл бұрын
Shouldn't you be changin the filter as well?
@MasterJacks3 жыл бұрын
He's a link to that video kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5ulnKmZgbl8eNE
@Mikey-qf6cd5 жыл бұрын
I have the same year model RAV4 and same color 136,000 miles but recently the transmission started slipping in reverse pops when I give it a quarter throttle could it be something besides reverse clutch going out thanks
@cbowman2125 жыл бұрын
Hey fantastic job I feel comfortable performing this on my '07, thanks. Do you think the fluid you used is just as good as the fancy expensive official Toyota fluid (Toyota 00289-ATFWS Lexus & Automatic Transmission Fluid WS ATF World Standard)?
@MasterJacks5 жыл бұрын
Thanks. I use Valvoline's full synthetic ATF in a lot of things. Always had good luck with it.
@cbowman2125 жыл бұрын
@@MasterJacks Do you have any idea where I could get some of those 10 mm bolts that hold on the splash guard? Home depot doesn't sell anything that's fitting. Thanks
@MasterJacks5 жыл бұрын
@@cbowman212 I'd try to match one up at a parts or hardware store.
@cbowman2125 жыл бұрын
@@MasterJacks Ok yeah I've been to AutoZone as well just wanted to see if there was a specific type
@cryptol68425 жыл бұрын
Do I need to perform this while Im going to change transmission filter ? On your other video you didn't do flush.
@MasterJacks5 жыл бұрын
I typically do the filter change, top off the fluid in the pan, then go straight into the flush.
@cryptol68425 жыл бұрын
@@MasterJacks Thanks ! Great channel by the way!
@josephtraughber82205 жыл бұрын
How many miles was on this car? My dad's Rav4 is a 2010 and it just hit 100000, so I was thinking about changing his out.
@cbowman2124 жыл бұрын
I just changed mine at 120k exactly as in the video and it worked like a charm
@tothepointvids51924 жыл бұрын
Chase Bowman What ATF do you use?
@njsongwriter4 жыл бұрын
I would drop the pan & change the filter/screen and then do this. Make sure you have the torque specs before getting started, etc. I have used the Toyota WS and also the Aisin WS, as well as the Idemitsu TLS-LV which is a direct replacement for WS fluid and is available at AutoZone for 7.49 a quart.
@USMC-pt7rw3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for this video, very helpful and Valvoline ATF WS fluid can now be used for this type of transmission.
@Jon_Thunder Жыл бұрын
Great Video. How did the Rav4 run with the Valvoline ATF ? Also did you change the Transmission filter?
@MasterJacks Жыл бұрын
No issues with maxlife ATF. Here's the link to the filter video, thanks for watching. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5ulnKmZgbl8eNEsi=bXkE55kNA6lmPlS3
@Ccar26864 жыл бұрын
Had my trans looked at by a professional he advised me not to do this, I am the 3rd owner of my RAV4 I love the thing but its previous owner neglected to flush the trans, now the fluid is black the car has 214.000 miles on it and can't flush it without risking a clogged valve body
@njsongwriter4 жыл бұрын
I would try draining one or two quarts at a time and then topping off. Do this once or twice a month so that the change is very gradual. The main thing to avoid is a power reverse flush done with a machine.
@vic58282 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video. It has shown me how to do a full flush if I need it. I have been having a problem on my 2012 RAV4 with code 0741. The Check engine light, Trac off and 4WD was turned on. The dealer told me I need a new transmission and transfer case. The transmission shifts just fine so I am doubtful that is the problem. We changed the filter and fluid, removed the negative to the battery to reset the codes and it ran fine for several miles this morning, no check engine light or other lights on. This afternoon I went to the store and the check engine, Trac off and 4WD lights came back on. My son thinks I need to do a full flush to fix the problem. Anyone out there have this issue and how did you address it? Thank you anyone who responds.
@pauls37402 жыл бұрын
I had a similar problem with my 2008 rav4, just disconnect positive battery cable and reconnect it
@jasmina65392 жыл бұрын
Whats the process on a manual rav4, as it does not have a dipstick
@kcirtapecreip41555 жыл бұрын
What size extension hose do you guys think they used for this? This looks like a super easy job to do yourself and could save a lot of money compared to taking it to a mechanic to have the fluid flushed...... and I would know that it was actually done well. Do you think it would be better to drop the pan and change the filter? People say that the filter change is unnecessary because it doesn't actually clean the fluid it just catches really large chunks. Anything that would clog the filter would indicate that the transmission was done for anyway. Is this true????
@angeldeleon60164 жыл бұрын
friend would you recommend this oil for this truck? how it will have worked or how long have you been applying it in these vehicles
@MichaelLee-yh7ss Жыл бұрын
How frequently should it be flushed?
@nvkulk3 жыл бұрын
Excellent!
@kcirtapecreip41555 жыл бұрын
You are supposed to check the levels while the engine is running right. When not running my fluid level is way high haven't checked it while running yet. Just bought the the car from the dealership with 100,000 miles on it and the fluid kind of looks grey, that's probably not too bad right. I just want to take good care of it so it lasts me a long time.
@MasterJacks5 жыл бұрын
Yes, you need to check it when it's running to get an accurate reading. At 100k, and as a new owner, I would flush it. The filter is optional as these have a strainer rather than a paper filter. Better to flush it while it's in decent condition. If you wait until the fluid is brown and burnt, the damage has already been done.
@kcirtapecreip41555 жыл бұрын
@@MasterJacks thank you very much. I was right to think it would be a good idea to change it. And thank you for the great video on the subject.
@kcirtapecreip41555 жыл бұрын
@@MasterJacks Oh I forgot to ask. There are three magnets in the pan is it worth dropping the pan to clean them or do you think i shouldn't worry about it?????
@MasterJacks5 жыл бұрын
@@kcirtapecreip4155 I wouldn't be too worried about it. When you get to 150-175k, I'd probably do another flush, replace the filter, and checkout/clean the magnets.
@nowayout86394 жыл бұрын
The V6 has the paper filter. Only the 4 cylinder has the reusable strainer filter.
@brijesh104 жыл бұрын
I have 2007 rav4 v6 with 155k and never did transmission change or flush... is it safe to do flush now?
@MasterJacks4 жыл бұрын
If it's a healthy transmission (not already slipping) you should be safe to flush it IMHO.
@ramonortiz2313 жыл бұрын
I hear that this method can cause problems in the transmission sometimes...do you had any issue after perform the flush?
@MasterJacks3 жыл бұрын
If you have a transmission that's already slipping, new fluid can sometimes make the problem seem worse. As the internal wet-clutches wear, the broken down friction material becomes suspended in the fluid, which artificially helps the clutches do their job. Replacing the fluid is a very healthy thing to do for a healthy transmission. If the transmission has a poor service record or is slipping between gears, changing the fluid can unmask an already existing problem. Keeping burnt/impregnated fluid in there keeps you thinking everything is fine for a while longer :-) On this vehicle, the transmission continues to shift great post-service.
@671guamnevermindroad94 жыл бұрын
So you use Valvoline to fill and drain then use Toyota WS ATF to fill ? When checking markings on dip stick should it be at hot level when the vehicle is hot? Sorry for all the questions I bought 02 rav4
@MasterJacks4 жыл бұрын
Valvoline full synthetic ATF can be used on transmissions requiring Toyota WS fluid. I typically use the Valvoline because it's cheaper, more readily available, and useable on more brands than Toyota fluid. You can use one or the other or mix them together, no harm done. Your call. You can check the transmission fluid level hot or cold. Hot means normal engine opeating temperature. The fluid expands when it heats up so if you have it filled to the hot range when it's cold, it could be a little over full when it heats up. So just make sure the fluid is in the correct range for the approximate temperature you are checking it. Always check transmission fluid level with the engine running to get an accurate reading. Thanks for watching
@671guamnevermindroad94 жыл бұрын
@@MasterJacks thank you🤙🏽 for the great feedback.. God bless
@aboturki8445 жыл бұрын
Changing the way El Gear RAV4 V6 2011؟؟
@thenewreal4 жыл бұрын
I've seen elsewhere that there is a transmission fluid filter behind the drain pan. Is that true? And if so, do you recommend dropping the pan and changing that also? FYI: 2010 V6, 120k mi., No xmssn issues.
@MasterJacks4 жыл бұрын
There is a filter inside the pan. Toyota uses a metal screen type filter with no recommended replacement interval. Aftermarket replacements are the traditional paper element variety. I personally like replacing the filter prior to doing the flush. I use the paper type, but you could remove the Toyota screen and attempt to clean and reinstall it. Here's the link to my filter video. It's on a 4-cyl but the idea is the same. kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5ulnKmZgbl8eNE
@nowayout8639 Жыл бұрын
There is no metal mesh filter on the V6 just on the 4 cylinder. If you have the 4 cylinder engine I suggest you don't throw away that mesh filter because it is very expensive. It can be cleaned and reused.
@randymurray9345 жыл бұрын
Great Thanks!
@rashedalzahrani26965 жыл бұрын
Excellent job but how i know the return line?
@MasterJacks5 жыл бұрын
If you have the same vehicle as shown in this video, do the same line I did. If not, you can disconnect one of the cooler lines and start the car for a few seconds. You want the one sending fluid back to the transmission after having gone through the cooler. If you got the wrong one, just reconnect it and try the other one. I have a Ford F-150 flush video where I got the wrong one on the first try. It's not a big deal, just messy. Hope that helps.
@njsongwriter4 жыл бұрын
@@MasterJacks Our 2009 has no transmission cooler. (At least there were no lines going into the radiator)
@thenewreal4 жыл бұрын
If I'm dropping the pan and replacing the filter, is it also necessary to "flush" the system of old fluid, or does replacing the filter accomplish the same thing? Follow up: if I opt to just replace the fluid, how important is the "flushing" process as opposed to just draining and refilling? Is this "flushing" process described anywhere in detail (specifically for a 2010 RAV4 V6)?
@MasterJacks4 жыл бұрын
Draining the pan and replacing the filter is good preventative maintenance. It gets less than half of the fluid out, but is a definite improvement. When you start the vehicle, the fluid will mix with what didn't come out of the torque converter and cooling circuit. This will replenish the fluid's protective properties to some degree, but not the same as a total fluid exchange (flush). Some people perform additional drain and fills (as apposed to a flush) across a few hundred miles until the fluid looks new again.
@thenewreal4 жыл бұрын
@@MasterJacks Thanks so much for the help. I really appreciate the xtra info.
@espcustom2 жыл бұрын
i was told by toyota that the actual filter is a strainer that never needs to be changed...I'm guessing that it needs to be cleaned however...don't know what they are doing at the dealer if you're asking for a full flush.
@jomperignon2 жыл бұрын
At how much mileage does it needs to do transmission flush?
@MasterJacks2 жыл бұрын
It should be done on condition rather than a set mileage, but approx every 50k is a good rule of thumb. If you check your fluid and it's dark brown and burnt smelling, it's ready to be done. If it's pink and clear, you're still good for a while.
@nvkulk3 жыл бұрын
I plan to do this next week Do you think I should drain 2qts from the return line and then add 2qt until the fluid is clean? My reasoning is that I would be able to keep track of amount of fluid going in and out to minimize waste and avoid doing a drain if I add to much atf Thanks
@MasterJacks3 жыл бұрын
That would probably work. You'll still want to check the final level with the engine running when your finished to make sure it's within range.
@nvkulk3 жыл бұрын
@@MasterJacks thanks and I’ll tell you how it goes. Will use max life as well
@nvkulk3 жыл бұрын
Just finished this yesterday All went well and I followed your directions. I drained 2 qt than added two more for a total of about 2.5 gallons I had to add two more qts to get to the hot mark. No leaks and all looks good I did removed that rail that interferes with the two small pan screws. Made life easier Used Maxlife atf as well Next is transfer case and rear diff! Thanks !!
@Tmrfe09625 жыл бұрын
Hi, thanks much...am going to tackle this soon, just curious though? What’s the difference between changing the fluid with a filter change, and doing a flush? Just bought a 08 with 90k and wanna do the right thing...thank you again. Which would you recommend?
@MasterJacks5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment. When you replace the filter, you will drain the fluid from the pan, but will not be able to drain the fluid from the transmssion's cooler circuits or torque converter (it's basically a fluid clutch for automatic transmissions). To get all the fluid out, the vehicle needs to run and cycle. In this video, the transmission's pump is pushing out the old fluid while I add new fluid. Optimally, you would do both services: a filter, then flush. However, either one alone can greatly benefit your transmission.
@Tmrfe09625 жыл бұрын
MasterJacks thanks for taking the time to respond....really appreciate the input.
@Tmrfe09625 жыл бұрын
MasterJacks and, that reply made perfect sense thanks. I get it.
@jamespatton39582 жыл бұрын
What is the "ID" of that tranny hose? Or what is the "OD" of the hose you used to push inside it?
@MasterJacks2 жыл бұрын
I can't remember for certain, but I believe it was 3/8 ID.
@jamespatton39582 жыл бұрын
@@MasterJacks Found your recommended tools and it listed the clear hose and a line fitting. Hope their what you used. I went a head and purchased them at amazon. Thanks for the response. Very helpful video, two thumbs up!
@MasterJacks2 жыл бұрын
@@jamespatton3958 Oh good. You should be in good shape then, but let me know if I need to update any parts to a more appropriate size. Thanks for watching, and I hope the service goes well for you!
@fw14214 жыл бұрын
Why didn’t you change the filter?
@MasterJacks4 жыл бұрын
kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5ulnKmZgbl8eNE
@mitch18473 жыл бұрын
Sending you to another video is very disingenuous. If the vehicle has a removable pan such as this one, you should clean the pan, new gasket, filter, and clean the magnets before doing this procedure. Or just drain and refill every 30k miles and change the filter and clean the magnets every 60k miles.
@Whatamiwhoami1234 жыл бұрын
what is the size of the hose that you used?
@MasterJacks4 жыл бұрын
I don't remember for sure, but a 3/8 I.D. should work
@angeldeleon60164 жыл бұрын
excellent video friend. are you still using Valvoline MaxLife Multiatf? And if you still use it, could you tell me how it went with that oil? have you had problems would you recommend it tell me about your experience
@angeldeleon60164 жыл бұрын
Ddd
@seri7804 жыл бұрын
My 2010 Rav4 with 112000 mileage has air coming out when opening the oil cap while engine is running. I had it looked by a mechanic at the toyota dealership and told me it is normal. Just want to have a second opinion on this matter. Also, the engine vibrates when RPM drops to 600 or almost 500 while the shift is engaged of in any drive mode. May I know what probably the reason or causing the vibrations?
@MasterJacks4 жыл бұрын
It's normal to have some airflow from the fill cap with the engine running. As for the vibration; poor spark or a bad motor mount are possible causes. Is this a new symptom? A four-cylinder engine will sometimes shudder a little in gear (not moving) at very low RPM's, this is normal.
@seri7804 жыл бұрын
MasterJacks I replaced the spark plugs but it still vibrates when rpm goes low. This only happens lately. I brought back the car to the dealership and I was told it’s the right top motor mount. A mere visual at it seems okay and there are no loose bolts. Is there any other way to check signs of failing engine mount without dismantling it?
@MasterJacks4 жыл бұрын
@@seri780It's hard to confirm a failed motor mount just by looking at it. There's too much weight on it from the engine. You could have someone shift it back and forth between Drive and Reverse with their foot on the brake while you watch the engine. If it clunks or moves a lot during this process, it likely has a bad mount. You then try to judge which mount is allowing the most movement. Sounds like the dealer may have already done this. Hope your find the problem. Thanks for watching.
@karkule59194 жыл бұрын
Motor mounts you can often times feel the difference between that hard vibration and simply rough idling. As far as rough idling, buy a can of MAF cleaner and spray clean your sensor, easy to do. You probably need a throttle body clean as well. I hope you bought the right pre-gapped plugs for that car, or it may run as bad or worse. If all else fails get an OBD reading and see what it comes up with.
@liontitties4 жыл бұрын
Thanks i watched your rav4 vids because they are not 10min long for no reason like other peoples