Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics | Lex Fridman Podcast

[@lexfridman]

Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast. 0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions: - Brave: brave.com/lex - Neuro: www.getneuro.com and use code LEX to get 15% off - Four Sigmatic: foursigmatic.com/lex and use code LexPod to get up to 60% off - Cash App: cash.app/ and use code LexPodcast to get $10 2:02 - Introduction to psychedelics 18:04 - Psychedelics expand the mind 21:16 - The priors we bring to the psychedelic experience 25:11 - Elon Musk and first principles thinking 35:41 - DMT 47:03 - Joe Rogan and DMT 53:11 - The nature of drug addiction 1:07:00 - The economics of drug pricing 1:13:15 - Should we legalize all drugs? 1:25:18 - What is the most dangerous drug? 1:27:52 - Does drug prohibition work? 1:31:46 - Cocaine and sex 1:38:46 - Risky sexual decisions 1:49:43 - Psilocybin helping people quit smoking 1:56:01 - Young Jamie 2:18:09 - Participating in a study 2:25:28 - Psychedelics and the human mind 2:32:51 - The future of psychedelics 2:35:32 - Neuralink 2:45:05 - Consciousness 2:57:46 - Panpsychism 3:07:51 - Aliens and DMT 3:17:55 - Mortality 3:27:44 - Meaning of life

[@420homegrown420]

Amazing podcast, my new fav

[@lukefish9443]

Really great stuff Lex! Thanks

[@akeithing1841]

God is a comedian whose audience is not laughing. I am.

[@akeithing1841]

@Ryan summer white v neck and jeans or black shorts running, winter my goodwill black shirt and then needed layers thereafter

[@savaloy666999]

Lex, you are absolutely killing it, Brother! You have the best show on the web! No pressure! LOL! In fact, don't change a thing! I hope you never feel obliged to make it more "professional"... Your interview style, your selection of guests, your A/V setup is all perfect the way it is! Many thanks, for your continued hard work, and love from from The UK!

[@KD-bk7gd]

I did mushrooms once...ONCE! I went for a full blown heroic dose. Very cool at first, vivid colors, a sense of love and oneness with the world, the feeling of energy flowing in us and around us that connects the nature of matter all together. I went outside and felt as though the trees were on some level aware of me, and realizing that I for the first time ever, saw them. Plant life was giddy that I saw them as they are for the first time. It was all very positive. Then I went inside and started feeling more disconnected physically from my body. The walls that had been breathing and moving already for quite some time started phasing in and out of this plane of existence. The floors started delaminating and phasing up and down, vibrating wildly, swirling, and stacking on each other like each level was only 10% of the matter, and only made up a solid floor when all layers stopped in the same space at the same time. I thought “alright this is getting wild, I’d better lay down” I went to my room and laid down. It started to not matter if my eyes were open or closed, the same visuals persisted. Throbbing 4 dimensional shapes, hieroglyphics, the loud sound of a being breathing that was not in sync with my breath. I started to feel my soul or consciousness detach from my body. I could rise above it and look back at myself laying there, but that didn’t matter since I no longer identified as that body. I couldn’t have told you my name or anything about me. I blasted eyes closed into this giant space of colors, fractals, pulsing lights and humming sounds. This entity approached me with a triangular shaped head and used telepathy to say hello. It wanted to show me something. It pulled a shape out of my head that I understood was my mind. It basically told me I weaponize my intellect against others, and it wanted me to understand that our mind is a gift not a tool to weaponize. It jumbled this 4D object like a Rubik’s cube and placed it back into my head and laughed this mechanical and buzzing laugh. In that moment I realized it took my intellect away from me. Nothing made sense. All of my thoughts were deconstructed, jumbled, and spit out of my mind nonsensically. I knew I broke my brain. This terror went on for about another hour before slowly I felt myself being put back together. Thoughts started being linear again, my mind could start to form coherent thoughts...I was back. I felt like George Bailey in “It’s a Wonderful Life” when he finds himself back at Bedford Falls. I definitely stopped being such an asshole to people I thought were inferior to me intellectually from that day forward. Never again. It was single handedly, and by a large margin, the most terrifying thing I have ever done. That said, it was also probably the most profound. I would have LOVED to have done it in a clinical setting, my fears during were completely amplified by my wife accidentally. She was supportive of doing it and keeping me “safe”, but had no understanding of the experience. At one point early on I started being very afraid, and she has never seen me that way. Desperate I turned to her and asked her “is this normal!?” At which her reply was “I have no idea! You tell me, you’re the one who researched it”, which threw me deep into a dark hole of freaking out internally LOL. I don’t flaw her for it, she had no idea the rational part of my brain would be taking a far away vacation, and she had no idea her words would carry such gravity. I will finish this off by saying I have a biology degree and am a well paid professional with my life together. Not that ANY of that matters or is worth a hill of beans, but some people may form relevance to my experience based upon their (very wrong) preconceived notions of who brings a relevant or valuable perspective to the table. Anyone who read this and thought instantly I was some druggie low life with no valuable insight is the exact person I used to be.

[@anansesem3271]

The experience was mad poetic

[@jakeh2049]

Damn buddy, this was mushrooms!? How much?

[@KD-bk7gd]

@@jakeh2049 a “heroic dose” which is 5 grams, but it was almost all super tiny aborts, so it was like 200 mini mushrooms.

[@brettlott570]

WOW great Story! You took me back to a trip I once had in some ways, especially how you said you rose and could see yourself above yourself. What a wild ride you took! what type of mushroom did you take?

[@Dani68ABminus]

What a trip! A lot of what you recounted I experienced on acid. Recognizing our connection with nature on a level that cannot be experienced sober was my biggest takeaway with all of my trips. That, and the oppressiveness and artificiality of modern life. Rats in a cage...

[@ricchburglar]

Joe's gone. Now you are our leader.

[@HaggardPillockHD]

Lex's podcast is more highbrow

[@wallytrollis5264]

mission complete comrade

[@sunflowersandrainbows2656]

Its tough finding a good cult these days

[@gaurav63105]

@@HaggardPillockHD Lex is/was an academic, joe is a comedian. Academic highbrow is fine with me ( not an academic but have a lot of respect for academics), of course these people won't go into normie shit

[@DanielRodriguez-jd7oc]

@@sunflowersandrainbows2656 Don't bring your weird cult vibes to this channel

[@BradVOT]

For whoever needs this, i saw some value in this quote: "Self criticism can be a positive thing if you act on it".

[@CJM-rg5rt]

If a mushroom calls you out on being a scumbag that'll change you for a day or two and that's where the acting on it comes in.

[@oldlahore1857]

@@CJM-rg5rt is that a positive?

[@erikjonromnes]

@@jamestrotter927 right back at ya... 💩 splat

[@Taylor-hb9er]

Haha

[@livelikelarry0017]

Self criticism without action is more positive than no self criticism and without action. The start to improvement is self assessment and then deciding yourself if you want to change it.

[@ash__117]

I'm not sure what it is, but I absolutely loved listening to this man. He seems like such a good-hearted individual.

[@joshuajames2425]

No ego.. which is super rare w academia types that's why he such a pleasure to listen too .. Atleast that's my take

[@ash__117]

@@joshuajames2425 Yup spot on.

[@Furcas824]

Moast of the ppl I've met that were on psychedelics speek or act the same way. No ego no pushing ideas on anyone.

[@yourmatetom]

This should be interesting. Lex is killing it with the podcast! :)

[@snoden9907]

For sure, great start to the day

[@quoudten]

Indeed. He may replace JRE on KZbin, at least in my book..at least until I finally decided to stop using yt..

[@finetoothcombine7014]

@@quoudten I'm kind of thinking this too Noone can replace Joe but if anyone was to succeed him, Lex fits the bill

[@quoudten]

I was often surprised when I'd watch a JRE episode with someone I didn't know and/or didn't think might be interesting. Lex has more hits than not imo so far, I almost have the opposite problem with Lex, I have to skip episodes I *know* will be interesting but just can't spare my attention for whatever reason

[@indamountains7953]

By far the most stimulating podcast on KZbin. No one else out there having these fantastic conversations

[@nomadjensen8276]

I've done mushrooms 8 times, Acid 2 times and dmt 2 times. Those were the best times of my life, the happiness and joy I experienced during those hours were colectively more happiness than I have experienced in 32 years of being sober. It really bothers me when close minded people judge others for having this experience. Those trips changed my life and changed who I was as a person for the better. I felt love like I have never felt before and it opened my heart and mind to things that were closed off before. I think everyone should trip at least once in a safe setting with people that they care about and they might understand and the world would change for the better.

[@042Ghostmaker]

Done acid twice. It was just fantastic both times and the feelings of happiness and connectedness were incredible.

[@cyprien20006]

i am 23 years sober and did a mushroom ritual last week it was incredible but after while I freaked out about a slip in my AA program . now after mire informations about it is do not feel it was a slip.feel great and went theought a journey

[@missmew5240]

I’m about to try some for the first time. Hoping it will help decrease stress, anxiety and depression….which have been crazy out of control lately. I’ve tried antidepressants. It took several attempts on different meds to find one that worked but it only worked for so long. Coming off of that was fun 🤙🏾

[@davidlamb7524]

@@missmew5240 Take in safe situation with close, trusted friends. This is important.

[@Phethephoenix]

That’s a really rare circumstance to find yourself in “trusted people” who truly care about you

[@AsherBrandt]

Lex is becoming so impressive in the podcast world. His vast knowledge and how engaged he is the whole time is amazing.

[@cutnslide]

esp. mentionig elon musk in every third sentence

[@jimmysingh694]

Lex is so open-minded to who he brings to the podcast, this is why I love his content.

[@ChicanoOne760]

Not like that sellout JRE.

[@TreyWilliamsTV]

@@VerMirror What are you talking about?

[@lilfr4nkie]

Israel owns America

[@ChicanoOne760]

@@lilfr4nkie it's a partnership. Israel is the Yankee presence in the middle east. That entails genocide, land occupation, spying, and covert attacks.

[@D3r3k2323]

@@VerMirror Lmao what

[@eddieb3915]

Wow. Mind blown. Took me 5 hours to watch, had to pause every 5 mins to look up a term, phrase, concept, or person, Lol. Learned a lot. Lots more to ponder. Thanks guys.

[@crbradbury8282]

Yes! Agreed

[@arampathkushan2861]

wow i feel smart knowing that i understood the things hes saying without having to look up things like you. But there are some podcasts especially when physicists show up i have to look things up. There were times i didnt understand english properly and looked up even the basic words. Happy to read comments like this, reminds me of myself and im happy that you learned something. Good luck learning more new things.

[@hammamiiheb137]

Chanchjp ii. iysrut

[@hammamiiheb137]

U Ouii hhhh c fi hhhh tu it yyy yi yoo k

[@hammamiiheb137]

Yu hhhh Ty tu

[@heatherwhitehead3743]

I took psychedelics pretty regularly over the 5yrs I was helping my uncle die from alziehmers. It placed the beauty of this world on top of a hierarchical structure that carried the most importance. There was absolutely no way I could of helped him in the shear agony and suffering of that disease. I had to have true real hope for him. I will be forever grateful. I was interpreted as being crazy by others. Others who ran from his pain. People who abandoned him in a VA mental ward.

[@hempwick8203]

I'm gonna help my friend with Alzheimer grow mushrooms legally(thank you Denver) and combine with lions mane for nerve growth, beta amyloid plaque reduction, and regeneration of the myelin sheath.

[@heatherwhitehead3743]

I'm using lions make as a hopeful preventative. It runs pretty heavy in my family this disease. My prayers are with you and your friend. 🕊💕

[@fishfish8879]

“Not only is the Universe stranger than we think, it is stranger than we can think.” ― Werner Heisenberg, Across the Frontiers

[@liquidpza]

The earlier credit goes to Haldane from his Possible Worlds essay, but agreed, I do love it.

[@robertfrost7495]

Breaking Bad really was an exceptional show.

[@jakenielson2014]

I always attributed that quote to Robert Anton Wilson.

[@davidhayden2417]

Great quote. I find it interesting when Matthew states we " untimely there is going to be nothing and we came from nothing" . To me it takes much more faith to believe that we came from nothing and will become nothing than to believe we were created by a transcendent being and in time we will be perfected by that being to live eternally with it.

[@specialk8168]

@@davidhayden2417 How will we be perfected? Physically? I really, really could use a new body. One that isn't seemingly designed to suffer. Or is it just mentally? That'd be cool, too, but I really am in a lot of pain. Obviously, both would be ideal.

[@wolvesden3699]

Very funny what Matthew Johnson said about coming out of experience saying “my god I need to say sorry to my mom.” I have had that EXACT experience

[@tylerbell5174]

Even me..

[@Serrotonin]

This is the greatest overview of the cutting edge of pharmacology + psychology I've ever heard in a concise 2 hours. You got to have Matt on again.

[@MaynardJamesKeller]

Actually three and a half, yet still concise...!

[@Kanzu999]

"The seer and the seen become one", bruh, that's exactly what I've experienced several times. If I was to describe it, I've felt like I was both the actor on stage and the audience at the same time.

[@hansi3335]

The proof is evidence!

[@sagu1lar]

This is what Hinduism and many other spiritual teachings try to convey. Though we say we have "a" mind, it actually has many aspects to it. The sense of self, and the intellect, and the "feeling" brain, are different aspects of our minds, but without guidance or knowledge about it, it feels like just one big mental thing. But it fact, come from different "places" of the mind. We do not feel that we are our thoughts, we feel like we are something that has thoughts. (Same with feelings) And so, with psychedelics, the aspects of mind become amplified and obvious. When we put attention to it, it does feel like being a seer and being something seen simultaneously. Our sense of self, observes the thoughts we have. And there lies a profound realization of our own experience. We are in fact multidimensional all the time, we just take it for granted and think not much about it in our daily lives.

[@TherebehoesinAlaska]

@@sagu1lar beautiful

[@erlendgerhard4905]

Matthew is just incredible, despite being an empirical scientist he still allows to play with different kinds of realities and realms of understanding, like philosophy, extraterrestrials, archetypes etc- which makes him way more interessting than most scientists I listen too- who often are too caught up in their occupation and refuse to speculate on anything other than really "science" based stuff- which of course is important that those types of people exist, but god damn science would be boring without people like Matthew. Credz to Lex for being a great host

[@shadowhawk22]

I appreciate the style of interview here, where the guest can speak for a long time and fully explain his points. Subed

[@pandarpha7778]

Here we go. I like how Fridman is becoming the chosen one in the podverse

[@GK_Imagimotion]

He's beginning to believe.

[@normanladdleschnitzel1928]

Just need to get rid of his ridiculously naive optimism and we will be da one

[@mattrennie6876]

@@normanladdleschnitzel1928 Nothing wrong with optimism, I don’t think he believes what he says always though.

[@normanladdleschnitzel1928]

@@mattrennie6876 history shows there is lots wrong with misplaced optimism.

[@mattrennie6876]

@@normanladdleschnitzel1928 I'm with you on that, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and all those commonly used sayings. Optimism, among with other traits, has got humans this far though.

[@zactranten3235]

I’ve been listening to Lex since his first appearance on JRE. Now I find myself listening to Lex more than any other podcast. Lex, keep doing you. Thank you brother.

[@danakodermac4663]

I kinda wish everyone could talk and converse like this -so pleasant, interesting, educational...Thank you Lex!

[@bestestgaming8454]

yikes no thanks taking 2 mins to say something that takes 10 seconds or less is not a good trait

[@danakodermac4663]

@@bestestgaming8454 I guess to each their own :)

[@aaronstepien2363]

I've been waiting for a science-oriented podcast of this caliber to do a long-form discussion on this topic

[@davyroger3773]

A cross between Greenwood and Morrissey

[@nellkellino-miller7673]

Old comment, but I second this. It's about fucking time! Been waiting for this kind of discourse since I first took mushrooms when I was 14.

[@soulsfang]

Lex my man, this was easily one of the top 3 podcasts of yours I've had the pleasure of listening to. The psychedelics research was fascinating, but the arm chair philosophy was beyond amazing. I can tell you are getting more and more comfortable exploring these ideas conversationally, and Dr. Johnson was a guest who's thoughtfulness and brilliance cannot be understated. From the bottom of my heart and soul, thank you for this wonderful exploration of consciousness, meaning, existence, and life itself. It was truly a wonderful experience.

[@pme24]

Very good episode... which ones would you recommend me next?

[@IAmJames]

Would love to see you have Paul Staments on.

[@rainbowinthedark453]

Yes!!

[@conceptflow]

Paul Stamets is not looked highly upon by real mycologists. His products are mainly brown rice flour and starch. Look it up. I'd love to see any actual mycologist with a degree.

[@alexanderstyrlander7991]

@@conceptflow Im not a mycologist but an avid enthusiast and I’m a member of a mycologist-forum here in Sweden where a lot of mycologists answers amateurs questions. And they all shun Paul Stamets and think he’s a Terrence McKenna-esque hippie.... Pretty harsh, but I don’t have any insight to his real work but I do now how he represents himself in popculture and that’s pretty much the reason why his being “ridiculed” and also his products as you say.

[@garrettjones1161]

@@conceptflow Brown rice flour is fantastic nutrition for mushrooms. They grow huge on it. That's a ridiculous objection. He definitely knows how to grow. That's not why people have a problem with him. People have a problem with him because he mixes business and profit margins with his message that he wants to save the world with mushrooms. I think fewer would find Stamets objectionable if he stuck to one or the other.

[@garrettjones1161]

@@alexanderstyrlander7991 What's so harsh about calling someone 'McKenna-esque'? Also, Stamets and McKenna are nothing alike. I don't see the comparison, at all. Please say more.

[@The420Story]

I enjoy thinking life is a tragicomedy. Laugh at the pain. Ride the wave. You know, the clichés. Thank you people smarter than me.

[@rakntap]

Never have heard a behavioural economics explanation for addiction. Absolutely fascinating!

[@mobleyMobley]

I would just like to have a moment of silence for Terence McKenna.

[@RodionRomanovic11]

Man i saw him and i said he looks like Terrence Mckenna, then i saw that the podcast is about psychedelics 😮

[@arthurperez4833]

5 hours in silent darkness thanks.

[@RodionRomanovic11]

@@arthurperez4833 5 darkness in silent grams

[@BILLY-px3hw]

He still alive and well, just take a heroic dose and lay back, believe me, if you seek him out, you will run into him

[@beals6631]

BILLY ....dang that’s awesome

[@AZ-vy4gl]

49:37 that's one reason mckenna said he wished someone blind would use dmt - to see what kind of descriptions they'd come up with without prior images to bring into it. That would be interesting

[@stlkngyomom]

Check out: seeing without eyes(Frank Elaridi,Tom Campbell).

[@NoahsUniverse]

Oliver Sacks talked about this

[@galenpehrson898]

I know of a blind account, Two friends wanted to test if he (Blind from birth) friend would "see" visual hallucinations, therefore being some kind of proof that we travel out side our physical body. The blind friend had a break through experience after all was said and done, he was in tears and asked "Is that what it's like to see". He was unable to describe his experience in terms of "seeing" because he had never seen. Everyone kind of ended up bummed because now this blind person thought this magical experience he had, was what everyone was experiencing all the time - in essence he thought that tripping was sight. This is an experience from someone who is blind from birth "sight" isn't something they miss, the don't see blackness, they're not "missing" site... as they're is nothing to miss. Do you miss being not existing before you where born?

[@GrzegorzBrysiewicz]

@@galenpehrson898 sometimes I do

[@garthshoebridge5819]

Vice had an article on this www.vice.com/en/article/yp7wkx/what-happens-when-blind-people-take-psychedelics

[@hl9698]

It’s great to see this sort of discussion in a serious academic context. Thanks Lex

[@cutler2639]

I dont think I paused or looked away once, so interesting the whole time

[@jakeh2049]

So true

[@296jacqi]

Lex is both down to earth enough to have a silly chuckle, and intelligent and educated enough to “go there” on the science-y stuff too. Perfect combo.

[@martingautreau5583]

U can tell this guy just LOVES his job. Lol

[@user-qc4pz7im1i]

Lol did anyone else get the feeling when he asked "we can get into 5meo-dmt later on" He was really wanting to bring it back there haha

[@michelharvey9823]

Call it a good acid trip.

[@bethanyperry2266]

I would love to try all of it. I have a scary comfortable relationship with my self. Took me 65 years.

[@maconpatton]

Indeed. He has a smile that speaks volumes.

[@rossbattaglia8132]

@@bethanyperry2266 why and how so long???

[@JoshuaRichardson123]

This is on of the most profound conversations i've listened to. Thanks for opening up these topics Lex - and Mathew. That last hour was just incredible.

[@brettjames9088]

Terrance McKenna. Alan Watts. Like this, but actually good.

[@stellardoom8810]

@@brettjames9088 So you’re saying this isn’t good?

[@042Ghostmaker]

Terence McKenna is pretty far out, but is also a pioneer in psychedelics. He's definitely required reading. His audiobook 'True Hallucinations' is on KZbin.

[@beebmuff2011]

Lex you should have young jamie on the podcast.

[@danielsilver1173]

Excellent idea

[@J3R3MI6]

Agreed

[@JB-qq1xz]

Conflict of interest, Joe would get wayyy too jealous... you know Joe bought him that house in TX... why would he bite the hand that feeds?

[@vrino223]

lol

[@benjaminburns4412]

@@caxm666 I'm pretty sure there was a show with just him and joe

[@atom5341]

I'm glad they mentioned running. At 21 I was an opiate addicted cigarette and weed smoker and I was sent to boot camp by the courts. Being forced to run long distances was the first time I realized how powerful the mind was with it's authority over the body. Initially I couldn't run a mile 120 days later I did 15 miles. Of course I was in better physical shape but the real change came when I learned to attack the negative doubt filled thoughts that surface when you really exert yourself.

[@tooshay7396]

iboganine is another addiction plant cure. illegal, bcuz it works too well. 91 percent effective

[@user-lv6rn9cf8m]

An experience with a huge dose of LSD and DMT together changed my life forever. Can't even describe the experience without sounding insane but like it started with me feeling like I was falling/being sucked into a vortex filled with all kinds of symbols I could recognize and lots I couldn't. Like normal letters, runes, arabic writing, hieroglyphs etc - I got the feeling that I saw every possible symbol. Like I was literally drowning in information and having no choice but to surrender and give up and once I did I heard the "dong" sound so many hear and I'm suddenly not even me any more, but everything that's ever existed and ever will exist. While at the same time being "guided" around in this... other world. Feeling the presence of these entities that were amused to have me there. Lots of more stuff. I left with a message like "yeah we don't understand what you're doing on Earth in that form either but you have to go back now, but don't worry - you'll return here eventually - you still have do that thing you wanted to learn as a human". Like what... Is our whole human existance just something our "true self"/"the energy we are" wanted to have for a while? Like going on a course to learn new things? Then I was back and started crying because I literally was forgetting thousands of the most interesting concepts I've ever heard about every second. And my friend turned into a dolphin for a moment. Lol. The things I said are just approximations. Like me being blind and for one day I could see colours and now I have to describe them to other blind people. There are no words that give the experience justice. Parts of the experience gave me an understanding of how all religions were just misunderstandings. I'm a much better and less anxious person now that I "know" that all is one and all that stuff. I'm also certain that the kind of person you are will have consequences later on. You're just me from a different slice of reality. I think a religious person should be extra careful, having the experience I had would shatter all those beliefs in an instant and that could be hard to deal with. There's no going back. I prepared my experience for years. And I don't know if I experienced the big bang but I had the feeling of being close to a star being born, that my experience somehow created something in the universe. Had done acid and psilocybin a couple of times together but this was something completely different. I didn't see the world change, I ceased to be me and was part of something I could never even have imagined.

[@arlen1630]

But did you pay up your car insurance 😊

[@peterpemrich6962]

I've only ever did 5 gs of mushrooms. I've been trying to find DMT for so long. I'll just have to make it myself. Wish me luck buddy😊

[@ross302ci]

Thank you Dr. Johnson for doing this incredibly important work, and thank you Lex for bringing this conversation to us! We are so fortunate to live in a time where conversations like this can be so effectively disseminated-- it is one of the reasons that psychedelics are fast emerging from decades of unreasonable suppression in research.

[@xxsillypsybinxx]

When your 2 tabs in for the night looking for something new to blow your mind. The timing of this is crazy. Thank you lex!

[@williambartholmey5946]

Listening to a long informational podcast while tripping is such a waste of a trip.

[@conorhughes6018]

Thought he meant browser tabs

[@cutler2639]

@@williambartholmey5946 to each his own

[@solefood7477]

@@hypno5690 who's you people lol

[@firstnamelastname9955]

@@williambartholmey5946 it really on what each individual enjoys and how much access they have to their chosen psych. I've literally watched reruns of tv shows that I love and those have been some of my most enjoyable trips.

[@BrianRebec]

Hi Lex! Next time you interview an expert in psychedelics could you please ask them about how psych substances clash with the use of SSRIs? It would be hugely beneficial to those who are on anti depressants and how they should, or should not, go about a psychedelic journey to help their depression. Unfortunately there's very little information on serotonin syndrome within the context of psychedelics.

[@042Ghostmaker]

There's a fair bit of evidence that placebo doses of SSRI's are nearly as effective as active ingredients. As both drugs are serotonin agonists, they should have similar effects.

[@042Ghostmaker]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/favZq4qFZbOIa5I

[@moisheherzl2493]

Thought the same thing

[@thomsonmaclean2041]

Thank you Lex. Fascinating interview with Mathew Johnson. A true pioneer in a much neglected area of Neuroscience.

[@iAmplify7]

You need hamilton morris on the podcast! Who’s hyped for season 3 of Hamilton’s Pharmacopia?

[@lcarthel]

Fuck yeah to both of those.

[@danielbarrows8224]

This needs to happen for sure. I second this big time. So excited about season 3

[@CMClaudio1989]

That would be one of the most monotone podcasts ever 😂😂😂 still would love to see it

[@lcarthel]

@@CMClaudio1989 Hahaha yes!! That's hilarious to think about now.

[@katym15475]

Ohhh hell ya

[@DH-ij9pe]

This entire podcast episode was 10/10, so informative and insightful. PLEASE have this guy back!

[@rmfyiffa]

Thank you gentlemen this was a true blessing to experience this informative, joy-filled, and profoundly transcending sharing! Blessings and continued success to you both...

[@YaduNandan]

*Me high on weed* : "You know, I'm a bit of psychedelics researcher myself!"

[@joshuajames2425]

Lol

[@jakelumen499]

😁

[@joshuajames2425]

😤

[@joshuajames2425]

I always liked showing my work lol

[@retrofuture1989]

Bro weed doesn't even compare to magic mushrooms, there's no way to explain it

[@mirarstudios]

These conversations give me hope! Cracking stuff. The intelligence at work here, the dedication to reality, is very beautiful.

[@mikejr137]

You're the man Lex - I enjoy your interviews & hope you're around for a very long time! Keep going buddy.

[@lnc-to4ku]

Brilliant guest! And wow, what an incredibly interesting, all-over-the-place conversation! Love what Lex said about letting your mind shift gears between your day to day work and all the other, more out-there possibilities! And love what the guest said near the end, "The meaning of life is to find meaning" (among many other things they both said)

[@brendanerickson2363]

Keep Truckin’ Alexei! You’re doing amazing things! I’m so happy to be alive in this age of humanity! There’s such an absurd hilarity of chaos and violence, being human. You’re a breath of fresh air.

[@JimmyDShea]

A wave of great healing is rising.

[@rainbowinthedark453]

I believe this too....I hope we evolve into better, compassionate human beings. Let should have Terrence McKennas brother on. He was on Joe Rogan and was one of the most fascinating guests in my opinion.

[@zygiwong]

I’d like to believe so

[@JerseyLynne]

I hope so.

[@cey-39]

The Great Awakening is upon us

[@Tinamariewalnuthill]

The Age of Aquarius ♒️

[@MorrowProduction]

Lex said "I want to interview Joey Diaz" Holy shit boys... lets go.

[@eugenieyockell3458]

hahaha that would be so funny

[@Sychonut]

The man, the myth, the legend. Epic muffl'uh eating stories await.

[@SkeleOfNi]

Excellent marketing from the host.

[@vrilmaxxed]

Two Goats collide.....

[@vegvisirphotography5632]

OH SHIT!! Uncle Joey needs a new Jewish Lee to get fucked up. All jokes aside, with their passion for Jiu Jitsu and open minds? This could be history. Uncle Joey's a different kind of smart too.

[@DominicDSouza]

Another fantastic discussion and again, I'm so thankful to both these amazing people. Also, I was struck by what a great human being Matthew Johnson is.

[@Mutantcy1992]

That thumbnail lied to me about the level of beard I was gonna see in this video

[@Blueshoe40]

While seeking answers about my bad trip I came across this episode, which was a beautiful trip into the realm of what's possible in our minds, our Universe and everything in between. Each moment presents an infinite number of decisions and conclusions based off individual and collective interpretation- Lex Fridman's genius is that he and guests lead discourse that always allows curiosity and openness so that we don't fall into thought patterns that are narrow, small and harmful. I thank you for the spaciousness and understanding you've helped me to hold, to grow. If we want to survive as a species, we must apply this type of kindness and thoughtfulness to the pressing issues of our time.

[@Sophia-mn5mb]

Mycospread~~~~~~~

[@invanorm]

Psychedelics don’t so much hold the answers, but they do hold within them the most powerful questions.

[@johnniewasr5740]

🤯

[@tylerschoen5643]

99% of the time the “answers” are already known but buried deep and you scrambling your brain allows those answers to shine for a moment. People would be surprised how much information they retain subconsciously.

[@My_youtube_acc]

what an insightful podcast. I've been trying to convince myself to stop smoking for years. After this, to prove to myself I can - I'm going to quit. Wish me luck!!

[@geraldine-211]

GL ✨🍀😁

[@My_youtube_acc]

19 hours in. I’ve smoked for almost 15 years. No more!!

[@geraldine-211]

@@My_youtube_acc Love that Dr. Johnson uses behavioral economics as a lens and mental framework to have quantifiable conclusions from his psychedelic studies. Love what he said about calculating the reward now vs reward later, i.e. delay discounting (1:33:33). Very profound logical framework for overcoming mental suffering. Of course emotional suffering is a factor too. I truly believe consciousness expansions and shifts are totally possible. Keep updating this thread for support 🍀 Here's the TL;DR of the parts of the podcast we're referencing 53:11 - The nature of drug addiction 1:07:00 - The economics of drug pricing ... 1:25:18 - What is the most dangerous drug? 1:31:46 - Cocaine and sex 1:38:46 - Risky sexual decisions 1:49:43 - Psilocybin helping people quit smoking

[@kylebutler1101]

If you fail, at least get a vape, don't go back to cigarettes, which are fucking expensive for something that makes you stink and taste like shit.

[@flamaest]

Always incredible to see Lex's ability to ask such detailed questions, to such a wide variety of guests of different disciplines, going into such deep levels of conversation. Great podcast!!!

[@Driftee]

22:25 Star Wars Luke: "What's in there?" Yoda: "Only what you take with you."

[@Hashishin13]

He should have taken Yoda with him lol.

[@J4ME5_]

Psychedelics changed my life.... feeling blessed

[@mobleyMobley]

Trip reports plz dmt?

[@digitalizations]

Same here :-)

[@Yensid99]

My friend gave me a huge “dab” and I saw 2 dimensions simultaneously happening at the same time. Im convinced it was DMT but he’s never admitted it to me. What do you think i took?

[@stinkwink695]

Thats just what they do.

[@jamesevans2507]

Details pls dude. Say which psychedelics and dose at least.

[@serengetilion]

Wow, this Matthew Johnson presents himself to be an awesome person, like he's so in the right field...absofrigginglutely. It's worth one's time to just listen to talks as this...

[@jackhenryhung]

Perfect way to end the weekend

[@colepenick5238]

You’ve done what Joe can’t do, Lex; the baton has been passed on

[@BloomGlare]

This is an important point; however, I think it's worth mentioning that Lex is facilitating the consumption of diluted, high level science whereas Joe is increasingly treading into pop culture. Maybe not a passing of the baton so to say but a break in Joe's audience who typically consumed his science-related material. Lex is quickly becoming the next Carl Sagan. Humble, kind, curious, funny and intelligent but also self-aware.

[@colepenick5238]

@@BloomGlare I wouldn’t equate Lex to Sagan, and I’d even support my baton metaphor using the point you highlighted. I don’t intend to dissent and nitpick, it’s merely a light analogy as a testament to personal experience.

[@user-ue8vp6fy8y]

Havent watched jre since it went to spotify

[@pasza_dem]

@@user-ue8vp6fy8y watched Joe on spotify, listen to Lex on spotify, did same thing on youtube, platform doesn't matter, it's only about content.

[@martin-fc4kk]

@Ryan well said!

[@nickacelvn]

Brave browser is indeed fantastic. I've used it for years now and promote it wherever I can ... a Great podcast Lex.

[@davosoad]

Lex, You keep bringing amazing people to your channel, and I am just so amazed. Thanks for doing this!

[@bradedgar5675]

Yes Yes is going going on

[@tinutube3858]

My favorite topic on my favorite podcast! Thank you, Lex!

[@ancientmegaliths1739]

So refreshing to hear an adult conversation about these topics... would love to hear a podcast of Matthew Johnson, Dr.Carl Hart and Hamilton Morris discussing these topics in depth... true pioneers into the future of their fields of study.

[@justinworley2470]

Its way more motivational compared to people who troll. When people troll you feel as if these people who are suppose to be helping, are just making it worste and making you feel like there's no hope, because if i get sober, they still spread this embarrassing information like a damn wild fire and sit there and just keep talking about it. I feel like im dealing with high schoolers who are just trying to fit in and get a laugh. When someone wants to get sober, they need support and they need everybody there for them. Even if they were shir hesds in the past, atleast help them through sobriety then you alliow them to try to prove if they can be a good human being.

[@KungFuChess]

There are many things we try to explain with a rational mind to protect the ego but in truth there is still much to discover.

[@lcarthel]

Lex, please get Rick Doblin of MAPS on the podcast!

[@DukeofLizards91]

Damn, this guy is doing what I wanted to do growing up. Study psychoactive drugs. But instead I ended up developing addiction problems. :/

[@bluesakura2092]

Ah, life. there are dreams everyone has, and then they realize maybe dreams aren’t meant for everyone. and maybe i was just meant to be like everyone else, and die off eventually. and maybe that was special enough, but it will never satisfy the desire to reach that dreamy potential...

[@bluesakura2092]

good luck but what i really mean is i hope you can realize life is yours and it was always your choice to change. and when you die you will look back and feel emptiness seeing how you never changed if you never do. this life is your only chance..

[@daneansonnier4804]

Same here bro. But we still have much life to live!

[@DukeofLizards91]

@@daneansonnier4804 100% homie. Got a year sober and back in school. We can always turn things around!

[@MarkoTrapani]

@@DukeofLizards91 love to hear it, my guy

[@Andre5225]

I’m 63 and have never done any psychedelic. My son and I are planning a psilocybin & DMT experience soon. As an engineer, I’ve always been pragmatic however, I’ve found this dialog and information reassuring. Being able to leave ego behind & find my earlier self (perhaps), is an interesting and exciting proposition. Thank you both for sharing. I’m looking forward to opening the door.

[@Limpass610]

How did it go

[@Sauspreme]

Did mushrooms a couple times (regular amounts) in my youth, and the week afterwards I always felt much less stressed and anxious. Maybe it was just reflecting on the experience instead of focusing on every little thing in day to day life. Thought it was interesting though

[@vladimirpetkov1959]

Brave is amazing. I am using it from a week and love it.

[@rproctor83]

I spent about 6 months experimenting with DMT, it was the most mind opening thing I've ever experienced. I had many trips, some extremely profound, never anything bad, Though, once I did get freaked out for a moment as I was unable to understand language. Imagine someone talking to you in your native tongue and not being able to comprehend the words. I could hear, but I couldn't grasp what was being said, it just sounded like a muffled telephone call or something. Very strange. There was also once where where I met a floating zombie that was positioned in a seated Indian style pose. When I noticed it the thing flew up to me and did a fractal spit where it was suddenly like 100 smaller ones. I remember I seen a hand appear and it was holding a light, it said look at this and this fractal zombie character was spinning around me at high rates and the light was moving closer and closer to my head. As it neared very close I started going cross eyed to keep looking at it, it said keep looking, don't stop, and right as I was about to stop I felt a sudden release of pressure in my head and head a loud audible popping sound. I have really terrible sinus issues, I think someone it was able to cleanse my sinus cavity, it felt amazing. And I'll just end on this, though there were many experiences. I was floating in space and met an octopus looking being made of what looked like star nebula. Long story short we ended up kissing, and there was this intense feeling of love. The being took it's galatic tenticle and started shooting it in and out of my body at rapid speed, I felt a strong heating sensation like my best was getting warm, and then that spread to my whole body, like being cold and getting into a hot shower. It was climactic.

[@Brian19616465]

I've had the experience of not knowing what people are saying. Freaked me out too also I was close to a baseball field. Listening to the crowd, they sounded just like howling monkeys.

[@vaevictis3905]

This language thing also happened to me. Very strange. I saw the letters but don't understand at all. It was funny.

[@tooshay7396]

there needs to be a podcast hosted by those who have done ´delics´ to interview those who have to tell their stories

[@PureBadBreath]

This is excellent, prime example on how to use disciplines from other fields to give new insight into a vastly different area. Would never thought of using behaviorial economics to substance addiction.

[@XiphosPL]

"I might murder you at the end of this conversation" *nervous laughter*

[@kickass1437]

3:23:50

[@marcosanaya9540]

i thought i was hearing things, thought he said "i might get murdered after this conversation"... still bad but no as bad as joking about killing another man

[@ahmedmak5927]

He should go for the tie and choke lex out Rogan Style

[@taywimzzz]

@@ahmedmak5927 He's not wearing a tie? But if I hadn't double-checked I would've assumed he was too.

[@oghaysbone7678]

Lmfao bruh there wasn’t nervous laughter , they both knew it was a joke

[@visionboxed]

maybe he should do a stiff dose of dmt and come back for a second interview.

[@conorhughes6018]

Maybe??? ;)

[@Her_Viscera]

The conversation around the 1hr mark is so enlightening, great examples

[@tumbleweed1976]

Lex interviews Snowden in disguise 🥸 . Thank you both!!!

[@qunningStunts]

what the fuck lol, can't unsee

[@0xBerto]

Joe leaving Spotify just opened the lane for Lex to take over. And I like that he approaches things with a engineers mind, yet so open. This is great

[@0xBerto]

@@danfontaine8179 very true. I hope it helps elevate the common mans intellect by having his podcast available for free

[@ekisauruslux6795]

my life is fuller since i discovered your channel bro. thx man keep it up.

[@joebanuelos5614]

I'd like to see an interview with Chris Hedges

[@benjamenchiids7418]

Can't wait

[@socrattt]

That would be perfect. Most interviewers aren't serious enough for Hedges, but Lex is.

[@kerrycontrary127]

Greedy for truth, are we? Me too!

[@hankyboy42594]

I loved this episode! Great job! This guy was super interesting and well spoken.

[@bobingsonbob8893]

This is seriously one of Lex's best podcasts I've ever seen. Matthew Johnson was super interesting and eloquent but he wasn't arrogant, and Lex is asking some damn good questions and supplementing where needed.

[@drangus3468]

Thank you for this Lex & Matthew, two of my greatest passions colliding!

[@JuanGarcia-tb7ph]

What are those?

[@drangus3468]

@@JuanGarcia-tb7ph Psychedelics & AI!

[@JuanGarcia-tb7ph]

@@drangus3468 Thanks. I wasn’t aware what Lex specialized in

[@padraigcarroll]

I always think Lex Luthor, when I get my notification. The suit and calm low rolling voice add to the evil genius vibe.

[@theunbreaking]

Love lex! Love he’s so open as a scientist to anything really and humble enough to admit when he has had his “eyes opened”

[@boyerindustries]

Damnit @Lex Freidman, I was planning on being productive at 3am this Monday morning and now I have to listen to a 2hr podcast lol

[@crpdarticles5059]

Hey Lex, I just had a deja vu experience watching this interview cool. Thumbs up man!

[@missusjasus]

Deja vu or flashback?

[@zenith8868]

I wish I could be as smart as Matthew, his thought process is incredible

[@FadeArcade92]

Lex is so smart.. and I think that's what makes him trip over his own feet. I'm an idiot and I feel like I understand the conversation better than he does

[@042Ghostmaker]

Sure, but we aren't formulating the ideas and trying to break new ground, we are simply listening.

[@TheGhostOfFredZeppelin]

I find this so interesting, my biggest question that I haven't found an answer for yet is how they deal with not just bad trips but an actual psychosis. I would have loved to hear about that from him, for example people with a genetic predisposition for schizophrenia and things like that. They might be/seem 100% normal but a psychedelic trip could trigger a full on psychosis that lasts a long time and completely wrecks them.

[@Liisa3139]

Exactly, the negative side of things has been missing, but every phenomenon has one even if it is not found yet or just not discussed. I would want to hear another scientist who is critical of the psychedelics hype.

[@Zestybwoi]

Super cool chat, it definitely sheds light on other uses of psychoactive substances that aren't just getting blazed. Cheers Lex and Mathew

[@ishtar0077]

Get Hamilton Morris on podcast.

[@sagoluyorum_zaten]

This gentleman has my dream job! I'm sure its his dream job, too. He seems to really love it (I wonder why :D). I wish you two the best, keep up the good work!

[@rmfyiffa]

The time just flew by! Thank you for sharing gentlemen... Blessings!

[@virgilmccabe2828]

Psychonaut, I love it LOL 😂. I was one of those back in the 60s

[@jasp42]

The psychedelic renaissance is here and I'm all for it. In my opinion, LSD is something everyone should get to experience at least once. It showed me the beauty that had been right in front of me my entire life, and the magic of this world I find myself in

[@domc2909]

It scared the hell out of me and I wasn't back to normal for about 6 months afterwards. I'd tried it many times before and thought I was experienced enough to cope with whatever it threw at me but this time, I took a little too much and paid the price. It's not all beauty, it can also be sheer terror, of the like you didn't think possible. it's not something to trifle with.

[@jasp42]

@@domc2909 I've had bad or challenging trips as well don't get me wrong... just give it time being sober, practicing meditation and taking care of your mind and body and I promise things will get better

[@zzfishystick]

As a person who loves psychedelics this is amazing podcast.

[@TortillaChip521]

You can’t fool me, Eric from That 70’s show with a beard!

[@jennak.8541]

lol

[@slaphappybullet]

Haven’t watched it all yet, but I’m so interested in how psychedelics can open your mind and at the same time feed you some nonsense. I drank ayahuasca and it felt like something who knew more than me was telling me things. It was the most bizarre experience. And yet, in my real life, it seems like some of the things I was told doesn’t actually pan out.

[@jenniferabel2811]

Interesting! Like what?

[@MattyLiam333]

Let me tell you guys something as a guy who has done more psychedelics than I should have throughout my life. I'm a daily smoker weed. I've done a ton of LSD even more ecstasy and I trip on mushrooms at least twice a year. I recently took a hero's dose of DMT. When I say recently I mean this past Monday. A neighbor came by with a vape pen. I love him but I knew it was going to be a challenging trip. As someone who is a veteran psychonaut, I can give everyone the best piece of advice I possibly can. Good trip bad trip, doesn't matter, as long as you got your money's worth. The challenge is far more valuable than human currency. ❤

[@davidrockefeller2007]

You inhale and hold as long as you can? How many hits?

[@ajitchavan6181]

I have attempted to meditate many times in my life and prior to this CD the only success I've experienced is with live guided meditation. kzbin.infoUgkxzpa8CIfZcihW4Z0F_ja0QF3W9KIatrsq This is the first CD I've used that cuts through my unmedicated ADHD and enables me to truly relax and experience a quiet and energizing interval. The instructors voice is very soothing and pleasant to listen to. I am easily able to sit successfully through the entire CD, and for quite some time after. I cannot adequately express how tremendously helpful this CD has been on my spiritual journey!! Two thumbs up and 10 stars!

[@lukefish9443]

Oh yeah! Looking forward to this one!

[@Mario_DiSanto]

The best business decision Lex ever made was Joe signing onto the Spotify deal.

[@miniminter2615]

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[@andrewkosel8812]

@@miniminter2615 Whhhhat?

[@Mario_DiSanto]

@@andrewkosel8812 it's a scam account

[@HK_Musician]

Haha he took his viewers