Maven Fight Review - How Bad is it? Or Not Bad at all? - Path of Exile 3.13 - Echoes of the Atlas

How good is the Maven Fight in Path of Exile's newest Expansion? This is my personal opinion on the mechanics of the fight, how the fight works, how I attempted the fight blind three times and what I figured out.
Some mechanics are really cool and neat, others I do not enjoy too much but overall the fight is also not super different from other bosses we have seen.
Shaper has the degen ground spread by volatile spheres and the the cold ball barrage. Sirus has the spinning lasers with the debuff. And the rest is either ignorable mechanics or telegraphed slam like abilities we have both seen in similar fashion a lot of times.
Overall not a horrible fight but some points were deducted for unoriginality. The fight simply did not wow me and personally the memory game is a bit tricky because it requires a very specific cognitive effort that does not fit well with the one I usually am in when I feel like playing PoE.
Build used in the video:
• Cremation Necro Archma...
Check out Some Merch - Shirts and Coffee Mugs at
www.designbyhumans.com/shop/I...
or at
streamlabs.com/itsyoji1/merch
Support the Channel on Patreon for some Behind the Scenes Access and More:
/ itsyoji
Yoji on twitch:
/ itsyoji
Yoji on twitter:
/ its_yoji
Timestamps
0:00 Introduction
0:45 The Good
4:27 The Bad
8:27 The Memory Game specifically
12:50 Summary

[@ItsYoji]

Have you tried the Maven fight yet? If so: How did you like it? Also I'll stream later today, come and say hi over at twitch.tv/ItsYoji

[@ZerFayt]

I like it for the most part, only done it couple times now. Also playing archmage cremation. I love how you brought up the thing that annoyed me the most in the fight; The fight rewarding extremely high dps while punishing lower dps. I keep seeing people quoting GGG saying "We want to reward slower playstyles" or "We want to slow down the game". Maven fight design points to opposite.

[@thomastxt]

I think its great

[@zacksmith7755]

It's the worst designed fight in the game.

[@KingOfBlades27]

Definitely agreeing that: 1) Memory game is a bad mechanic when you cant see it clearly. 2) Punishing low damage builds in general is really dumb. I would have made the last phase include just two memory games.

[@haxorss]

I really like the visibility in the fight even with hundreds of balls flying around, I can still see them. Memory game is the worst part of the fight. I can only do it if I get a easy to follow sequence.

[@genomicbeast]

I hope they just remove the memory game in the future it feels so out of place for an ARPG as a mechanic, especially since it's just a one shot if you mess up. I've seen people say it's refreshing but I have to disagree, it's probably the worst boss mechanic in the game right now. I'll even meet in the middle and say if they re-work it into something that is not a one shot but completing it makes it so the maven cannot use a powerful move in the upcoming phase or it clears the field of effects or causes the nexus to be stunned temporarily. Anything but a one shot I can't call it anything but just lazy design in it's current state. Sirus had the giant ring of clones and even if you didn't know which one it was you could dodge it with good timing and judgement, more stuff like that and not simon says. Edit: another idea make it so instead of memory you have to follow along with the section she calls out so and now if you fail that she scatters random effects on the floor or spreads orbs. I just dont get how they ended on "memory game that's what ARPG players like"

[@TBrius88]

Also, zoom out like for Veritania or Sirus so we can see the whole arena, nothing like dodging things in the corner when the memory game is going on...

[@soulstealer5625]

@@TBrius88 but there are no other mechanics going on during memory game? It’s not hard to see it.

[@TBrius88]

@@soulstealer5625 beams and leftover degen balls/areas

[@Cryttanz]

I don't think a memory game is out of place at all, every single end game fight is about memorizing patterns and abilites so you can avoid them. Why is this any different? Because it 1 shots you? No, a lot of other abilites one shot you. I don't buy this arguement at all. Just say you don't like the mechanic. Trying to rationalize why it doesn't fit in the game doesn't really work.

[@genomicbeast]

@@Cryttanz Memorizing boss patterns is not the same as short term memory. I can memorize that Sirus' spell echo die beam hits 6 times with a random set of damage attached to hit for each hit, I can also memorize that being close to him during the attack makes it easier to dodge. I can memorize that elder's circle one shots you if you are not in the inner most at the end of it cast. I can memorize that shaper's beam has no pen but his smaller ball volley does. None of these are short term memory, these are all mechanics you know are happening and can react appropriately. The closest thing to the Maven's memory game in POE before 3.13 was the atziri clone phase where you need to target the target clone of die to reflect, even then you can account for and mitigate the mechanic. Why is the memory game so different to these mechanics even though they share similar results of you keeling over like yamcha if you mess up? Short term memory. The entire attack relies on it, you know it's coming but besides that you react to it in a way that no other mechanic in POE shares. I hate the mechanic, it's the one thing dragging down a fun boss fight and even gave alternative that are less punishing but equally impactful to the fight. Some even solve the issue of the maven fight being unfriendly to low DPS builds by turning the memory game into a potentially good thing for the player, or you can choose to ignore it and fight the boss as is if you don't need to worry about DPS. If the best options you have to mitigate a mechanic are running Undying Evangelists or logging out to just avoid/cheese the mechanic, it might be a bad mechanic. Yogi even talks about the difference between learning boss patterns and short term memory in the video so leave a response to him saying you don't buy his argument.

[@Xeverous]

I agree with the view on memory game: stuff like this has no place in PoE. Also it significantly punishes builds which do not have high movement speed.

[@loganharvey8086]

I dont think the memory game would bother me if it was brighter. Like everything else in there looks like a light show at a rave and the memory game is this smokey faded out green grey that is smaller than any other effect in the fight. Make it more visable and I would be ok with it

[@Thaccus]

I saw this fight and said: "I don't want to play this game anymore" This level of juggling is beyond what is fun for me.

[@soulstealer5625]

Wut? The only amount of juggling is the balls, that’s it. It’s pretty tame and forgiving compared to shaper as well.

[@nmelol]

@@soulstealer5625 wut? shaper was easy and fun at the same time. maven same as awakener is annoying for the sake of being annoying.

[@soulstealer5625]

@@nmelol I’m,rant shaper could punish hard if u screw up but had well telegraphed attacks. Maven does as well.

[@Yakez42]

Went blind two weeks ago with 3mil shaper dps... and only question that i had... why on earth memory game trigger on a timer, instead of 1 time per phase. Was really ok before it hit the last phase. I am a mmo guy, and this does not feel like mmo fight. Nope. More of some bullet hell Japanese game type than mmo.

[@meme-san1343]

DEATH TO THOSE THAT INSULT TOUHOU rly tho, it's the rabanestre Simon Says thing on FF14 in an ARPG, which is random and dumb

[@elpina]

Seems like we need a Poe Boos Fights ranking video :P

[@focusidiotus1180]

good idea for a tier list

[@gubzs]

My biggest gripe was that I couldn't see the balls coming that left the degen on the ground. I pretty much never knew they were coming. I didn't realize they were coming out of the slow moving attack the brain fires.

[@catmasterOP]

For context, where do you place the Sirus, Uber Elder, Atziri, etc. on your scale from 1-10?

[@ItsYoji]

I guess I'll have to make a boss tier list 📃 Sirus is tricky because only his last phase is actually good. Uber Elder one of the best and uber atziri has held up ridiculously well over the years mechanically. I did an über atziri after this maven fight for the invitation witness. Damn that fight was still good and it is years old. The adds are boring and it is a very reaction based fight. But it is great at that. Probably above Maven for UE and UA. Sirus not sure.

[@voodoo1069]

I am a goldfish and I feel attacked by the memory game lol I also it is nearly impossible to me to see the glow effect. At least it isn't like sirus where you feel forced to do it. You can just stack up or sell her tokens. I enjoyed the arena a lot and though for the most part of the fight had some good points just really don't like the memory game and the add phase is interesting but their is some pretty bs but they are few so I could over look it. Got to love getting wastelands boss and his conc ground out heals my 10 mil dps minion build.

[@ThaGamingMisfit]

I struggle with short term memory IRL, I forget an absurd amount of stupid things, so yes I sell all my splinters ;) I've had my part of mechanical bossfights in 2005-2006 in WoW, I don't need them in my favorite ARPG, that's not what I play them for. Then again I understand a lot of people like bossing, so I don't mind it being in the game, as long it's not mandatory for progress.

[@FitzAF]

Just experienced my first maven fight. I had no problems with the memory game, but there was this one tiny projectile that she would throw and one shot me. It was weird since I can catch a few cascade balls and the gravity wells. I don't know what damage types she does. I'd like to know.

[@Chris3s]

the volume on your video is kinda low compared to other YT videos. Maybe raise it by 20-30%

[@jansmycka4338]

For me the memory game is that you can't see across the whole arena a then you start panicking because you don't know if the it triggered the other side or not + the circle from the middle that just blocks you from trying to get to the other areas fast is just rage inducing..

[@JayMorayEel]

The third phase memory game is sirus clouds prior to patching levels of terrible

[@soulstealer5625]

It’s really not hard to see though?

[@JayMorayEel]

@@soulstealer5625 The transparency makes it hard to tell which part is blinking. Thus making it nigh on invisible during faster paced moments. If it were opaque then it could work.

[@Scytherman]

I loved the Maven fight. Only thing that bothered me are those small orbs swirling around the arena, because the screen gets too full and it's hard to focus on the attacks that actually matter.

[@someguy4844]

They need to stop the obsession with degen ground effects. These modern boss fights focus too much on the environment rather than boss.

[@eddymelcher859]

decided to roll high regen rightousfire tanky boi with zerodps as a starter this time... that maven fight is very hard with a setup like that xD so i'm probably biased but fuck it: it's way to punishing for low dps builds. top video tho. hab dich lieb =)

[@annereilley4892]

Harder than the memory game is the conditional challenge to have 12 gravity wells active when you kill her at the end of the game.

[@dreammfyre]

The problem with the memory game is that it’s so completely arbitrary. They might as well put in a POE quiz at that point. “Your character has 400% increased spell damage. What would benefit you more, 10% more spell damage or 30% increased spell damage? Stand on the left side of the screen for yes and the right side for no.”

[@willian1460]

4:57 yes, you can! at moment i've already done like 300~400 maven's writ with a build that have 4k life+es pool and deals +-480m dps single target, so i discovered that you need about 350 million dps in order to kill every phase of the maven's fight without give her time to breath!!!

[@fast1nakus]

How do you even manage to play so much Poe and having a family. I'm pretty jealous about your time management skills

[@ItsYoji]

It really only is two hours a few evenings a week and usually one longer session on the weekend. That includes making videos etc. If you play consistently and make sure you have a plan you can get pretty far in a few weeks.

[@fast1nakus]

@@ItsYoji that's awesome dude 👏

[@Peter-sr8gv]

as much as I like slower playstyles that don't oneshot bosses the game punishing me more and more for not having like 50mil dps is the only thing preventing me from grinding end game

[@david-csmhaltero77]

You need only 3-4M spds and some decent survivability

[@fernandopires135]

I dont get the no regen laser... feels like atziri being imune to ignite all over again. I mean why cant I play a regen build and be rewarded by doing it vs maven? they could reduce the regen by a flat amount so that players that did not invest into it would have 0, while righteous fire would have a problem to solve instead of a "get f*ked lol" moment

[@ItsYoji]

Oh Yeah. RF gets shafted. I think leech and most other recovery that isn't instant gets disabled by the beam however.

[@haikukillyou1971]

I pretty much focus on whatever I can do without my brain exploding since my laptop with its puny 8gb of ram and it’s poor 1050ti and runs like a potato on this game

[@georgewilliamgutarracampos6262]

I simply cant do the last memory game. Too much sh*t happening at the same time and as other said I cant see the damn secuence!!

[@orochikasaki7426]

Been a month and still haven't reached there....

[@conto7032]

Problem is I reached there, but as he said, if u have the squishy char, then u cant do it ... and 3M DPS isn't enough ... where was time u needed only 50K to kill u uber atziri ...

[@orochikasaki7426]

@@conto7032 welp my build is god like mapper but bosses.... i will die from 1 or 2 hits

[@orochikasaki7426]

@@conto7032 seems like gg to me for this league

[@franciscodetonne4797]

I never play beyond Tier 5 maps anyway hahaha The game is enjoyable enough, I don't have to go beyond that

[@david-csmhaltero77]

@@conto7032 come on, my char has 4M spds ( but good survivability ) and I can do the fight without problem

[@RoninCaged]

Do a top 10 endgame bossfights. Or a ranking like you did with the streamers lol

[@tommorow1111]

issues is there's probably barely 10 encounters you could call end game, as most former end game just got threw into standard maps.

[@Anesthesia90]

@@tommorow1111 Uber atziri, elder, shaper, uber elder, oshabi, Aul, Sirus, Maven, shaper/elder/sirus guardians and vaal temple bosses as a trio.

[@endymion3990]

Remembering is not a problem for me at all, but visibility is, make the thing more contrast, also pseudo triggering while dodging is super annoying, esp with lags. Or a console to input the whole sequence, rather than this stupid t bagging.

[@aidancicci9327]

That memory fight mechanic is just unbelievable. The boss just pauses the fight and tells you to play a mini game that has no impact if you succeed and kills if you lose. What? Oh and to chalk it up you can't out build it. It doesn't care about how you've crafted your character at all, in an rpg. What? Biggest issue imo is that the maven boss fight has almost nothing to do with her presence in maps or her invitations. Her whole thing is duplicating bosses and then making you fight them and her final fight is just a big room full of balls. Like in terms of pure fun the 4 way shaper guardian fight is waaaay better.

[@bigbaddragon127]

You're not being too critical. It's the fight that is making you think you're playing a platformer instead of on an ARPG game.

[@iamplay797]

Why so serious yoji

[@ItsYoji]

GGG said no fun allowed.

[@iamplay797]

@@ItsYoji 😆

[@craktsupermoto]

the memory game is aids. im never one to complain but i hate this boss Edit: Playing caustic arrow which means more memory games for me and the celestial mtx blends the whole arena together so you are constantly in degens

[@bigmack70]

I think if they went from Uber Elder to Maven, I wouldn't like it. But they went from Sirus to Maven so it feels like the best fight ever to me. The sirus fight is such a dumpster fire of bad design and unfun gameplay that I'm really enjoying maven just by contrast.

[@david-csmhaltero77]

I hated sirus but when you're used to it it's actually quite fun ( and much more rewarding than maven )

[@franciscodetonne4797]

At least the fight has rad music!

[@MrFallenone]

Wait the memery phase is not % based ???? what the fuck...

[@IdgaradLyracant]

The memory game has to go. Otherwise it is fine.

[@alptug5446]

I believe all is well but that 10 sec debuff of no regen is just too punishing. I mean there are rf player as well. So if i m playing a build that drains my health in 3 sec without my regen rip me i guess go play some oneshot stuff with no regen anyway. All and all its an easy fight has much slower pace compared to other boss fights not many things that can oneshot you in 0.5 secs. Its relaxed fight other than memory phase memory phase. But man that 10 sec debuff that kills nebuloch or rf builds its just like saying if your build has high degen just dont do this fight.

[@slayerem]

I cant hear anything in this video, all my sound volumes are at max and I can barely hear him talk.

[@Pukabaiasa]

Sounds fine to me, check your settings.

[@slayerem]

@@Pukabaiasa right, had a power cut earlier and it must have messed the volume from my subwoofer, wasn't expecting that. thx for ur input.

[@Victormination]

sda

[@RavenGhostwisperer]

Nah, Maven fight is not something achievable the average player. Watching videos about it is enough

[@theStamax]

Love it. There's almost 0 bs (few things do still need some work). Everything is manageable as well. If you do it a few times you can do it rather easily Now if they'd only fix sirius... Still the worst designed boss

[@user-zw1oy5pm3s]

Hate Maven,sh*test boss ever.

[@TheToxicDoom]

I honestly love the memory phase specifically because it tests an ability of players that hasn't been tested before. If you practice memorizing the 6-step sequences, it isn't even "punishing"' for lower dps builds because the only thing that can make more memory phases bad is shitty ball placement or you actually failing. I just think it's refreshing to have mechanics introduced people can't cheese by doing shapers per second (too bad logging out is a thing).

[@soulstealer5625]

People saying they can’t see it or can’t remember? I genuinely can’t understand it. Maven has a clear indicator of when’s she’s doing it, the arena clears itself of mechanics (aside from degen and coil beams), you are allowed to focus on the game alone. Hell its a choice of three sections, so long as you have vision on two, you will always know which section is being selected.

[@Tewi7Inaba]

i have a totem build with 3.5k life and everything maven does can 1 shots me but i still can do it deathless

[@ZerFayt]

You probably do not have zdps :)

[@Tewi7Inaba]

@@ZerFayt jsut 15mil

[@jura6114]

i am glad they added memory mechanic to Maven, it's the only boss mechanic that i actually found interesting in PoE ever. People love to praise Shaper fight but outside of ball management it's very basic and boring imo. What people call "gimmicks" i call an actual mechanic and not just "dodge a beam/ball/slam" i want more of these "gimmicks" in the fight and not some basic ass attacks. i loved the Catarina fight btw :D

[@rhodan74]

It's the endgame fight of the endgame......ggg shouldn't expect ppl having low dps or design for that. It's still doable but way harder. They allow you to log out so you can safely ignore the memory phase and concentrate on burning her down. I'm sure constant whining will work as always and GGG will nerf that aspect. Thumbs up to the designers.

[@xSkittlesxNewbx]

I would agree with that if these things were wrong: 1. Only a small amount of players have reached maps/continued playing into maps. 2. Even smaller amount of community has reached end game mapping 3. Even even smaller amount of the community managed to do things like queen (Check steam statistics and trophies) End game is made harder to punish the crazy ass builds made by the 1~2% of the community in a way that punishes casual player even more. Don't get me wrong, the casual player could copy paste the build and do the game, but a lot of people don't like that kind of thing, they want to try their new things and builds. But that makes it harder as you technically go in blind, and then you have to deal with the mechanics that are made to punish the 1~2% of the community. I finished all end game bosses through out playing this over few years, so I know it's doable, but not always in an enjoyable way, esp if you play solo, or if you're like my friend who has a potato for a pc, poor guy couldn't even see the memory game as too much was going on on his screen. Yeah they shouldn't expect low dps or design to just fly through it all, but it doesn't mean cheap mechanics to punish all are not cheap.

[@soulstealer5625]

I’m seeing all the comments on visibility and I have to ask... do you guys need glasses? I’ve killed maven 12 times so far and her memory game is not hard to see, even in third phase. The first phases, there are no mechanics happening besides the game so very easy to focus. The third one simply has the coils which are decently easy to evade (unless u got minions I guess). Honestly I think maven could be buffed as she’s kinda a cakewalk (though still punishing if you mess up which is the sweet spot of difficulty for me).

[@david-csmhaltero77]

I'm one of those playing minions and the memory game on the last phase is indeed pretty hard to see lol, although my minions are not thick. Overall I like the fight but my main complaint is that apart from maven's orb, rewards are so terrible than there is no point doing it, except once for the atlas points

[@Cryttanz]

People can't faceroll the fight, now they all start crying about how bad/cheap some of the mechanics are. The next day, they all whine about the game being too easy. I'm sorry GGG you can never make people happy.

[@ItsYoji]

That might be part of it for some people yea. I mainly just hoped for a more unique fight.

[@Cryttanz]

@@ItsYoji I think Sirus was/is pretty unique but I personally hate that fight. I like the maven fight more. But I actually haven't killed her yet.

[@soulstealer5625]

I can kinda kill her damn fast but still engage with the mechanics. They are well telegraphed and only punishing... if well you fail and get hit. Perfect difficulty, kinda like veritania for me. Gives plenty of warning but fail to heed them and get destroyed.