MD/PhD vs MD or PhD programs: Why I chose MD PhD

[@DaKuawn]

I think that was well said. I think one point that I would add is that order matters if you are doing your MD and PhD programs separately. I think historically and practically, physician-scientists that still practice tend to complete their PhD program first and then go on to complete their MD. Waiting 5 to 6 years after you have graduated from medical school or residency can really reduce your competency with your clinical skills. Another way to do your PhD and MD separately is through the NIH Graduate Partnership Program (GPP). We currently have a student who has joined our program through the GPP who have completed their PhD already and will join us for all of the MD/PhD specific programming and complete their MD portion of their training. (www.training.nih.gov/programs/gpp)

[@shreyagupta183]

Hey but phd provides stipend but not md so it would be difficult to survive without stipend at that age ??

[@DaKuawn]

@@shreyagupta183 Many physicians do it. Typically, when you take out your loans for your tuition your cost of living is factored into those loans so that you have actual cash to pay rent, buy food, etc. The stipend definitely helps, but choosing to do the PhD solely for the added stipend when you do not enjoy research and don't intend to use it is recipe for a lot frustration, wasted time (which is worse than a more expensive loan), and sometimes toxic interactions. When choosing either pathway (which both are extremely difficult), trying to do them without a passion for that work is extremely tough. I've found very few who could just tough it out or made it to the otherside and could justify the decision.

[@shreyagupta183]

@@DaKuawn ohk but i meant when u do md after phd u will reach at a certain age when you have your family responsibilities too and u cant do that without having any stipend or salary ( taking loan at that age wouldnt be a good idea) so its good to go for md first and then phd because phd provides stipend that would b needed when u r 30+

[@shreyagupta183]

@@DaKuawn do u have any idea about mdphd colleges ? Is there any college which provides fully funded mdphd program for international student too ?

[@DaKuawn]

@@shreyagupta183 ,first off if you want to talk about the objective financial support from the PhD, it would be foolish to say that it doesn't help, but it would also be an exaggeration to say that it makes the world of a difference, the stipends that your program provides are generally not that competitive UNLESS you are at the NIH and work with NCI specifically with a higher pay line (and those can be meaningful up to about 60k per year), but for most of us it's anywhere from 23k-30k per year on the top end (essentially minimum wage not including you'll likely work more hours than a minimum wage job and NOT get a retirement plan match that many minimum wage jobs provide). Now realistically the thing you should be thinking about before trading your time and energy for this long path (divorced from the money) you have to consider whether or not you actually want to practice medicine. What will the stipend afford you if you end up getting the MD and not using it (there are more effective ways to get into biotech and other related industries)? If you do not intend on practicing medicine (going the biotech route), then you can do it the other way around. Medicine is a much stricter and regulated enterprise. It will be difficult to convince a hospital or medical practice that you are not a liability and that you are up to date with your practice if you decide to ditch your medical practice for a PhD (which could be 5-7 years gap in clinical duties, most PhD programs require that you have no outside commitments and that 100% of your focus is on the program and the degree making it very difficult to moonlight or do other clinical duties and get paid for them without going aginst your program's policies). Now there are some specialties and residencies that will give you space to do your PhD during them, but not all residencies are that flexible and forgiving... The bottom line is that your medical career path is much more rigid and defined and comes with more expectations than the PhD side. So generally (not always), doing with the MD on the tail end will make it easier to be a physician scientist (being able to find a clinical positions that opens up opportunities to build your research portfolio) if not doing a combined program. And keep in mind I've had classmates completely abandon careers (as lawyers, engineers, architects, etc) and drop their income to zero to go back to medical school to become a physician in their 30s and even 40s (most of them with families or primary care providers for their families). At the end of the day, people who choose this path are generally very resourceful and resilient and if it is the path we want, we make it work (generally with a bit of support from family and loved ones). And the making it work part generally requires them to take on debt with the expectation that the ROI is worth it fulfillment-wise even if not monetarily. It always surprises me how many 70 and 80 year old physicians that I speak to that still have their educational debt even though they can afford to pay it off. So the debt (which can be used to subsidize your living expenses for those 4 years), is actually a tool that most physicians utilize to answer the question that you are posing.