Melee Combat in Warhammer 40K EXPLAINED - How to Play 40K 10th Part 7: Fight Phase

[@thecmoose4754]

Praise be the game master, spreading correct rules interpretations across the land

[@beardhammerwargaming]

Praise him indeed!

[@clankychiefjohnful]

His word is law ❤

[@beardhammerwargaming]

@@clankychiefjohnful oh no…is this it? Is this how the GSC starts??? I should call a certain number in the Himalayans.

[@BillWD]

Amen! May his dice rolls be forever sixes and his charge rolls be ever successful.

[@jewelrunner7756]

Doing the god emperor's work!!.. 😂😂😂

[@spider-lad5572]

Your always so good at getting this stuff out and explain everything so well. Also may I ask maybe for Terrain rules there always complicated.

[@themilo1567]

Honestly, I kind of wish you would do a video on why exactly melee armies seem to be struggling so much right now. I find it personally pretty noticeable, and while I have some theories of my own (Overwatch being way too strong for starters) I would love to hear your take on it.

[@effindave6909]

It really seems like melee damage output got toned down way more than shooting.

[@tinker1945]

Overwatch is a pretty good strat. But honestly, from the perspective of my space marines at least? It feels like a lot of my melee units got massively toned down. Like my Ravenwing Black Knights got absolutely gimped, bladeguard don't feel that special, and the melee options for firstborn got gutted. This is before we take into account stuff like the points difference between Tyranid Warrior variants, where an objectively worse unit costs more pts than the ranged one for some reason.

[@auspextactics]

Sounds like a good one tbh, will try and get one made on that! Feel free to let me know any other insights (if good I'll try and add to the video :) )

[@Podman75]

From my experience today the melee unit just struggles when they're trying to get to the ranged units. Once they get into combat they decimate. I had 20 orc boys waaagh charge me with a blistering number of attacks doing 16 wounds almost wiping out my unit. On the flip side just 5 barbgaunts killed 16 of the 20 boys because of getting blast +4 so they had 20 hits from blast alone and still get d6 each. So I would say the key to melee melee army's is maneuvering from line-of-sight blocking terrain when possible and for when you can't have line-of-sight blocked make sure you have something that gives that unit they feel no pain and if possible and invulnerable save for double peace of mind. Tyranids can get this from having them within 6 inches of a psychophage and a zoanthrope very powerful combo

[@johnbaker7322]

I think there's a lot of things adding up for this. Movement is very restricted. Melee units as mentioned in this video can lose their ability to swing or even consolidate if they are engaged two into one. Losing a turn of swings and the protection of being engaged so you can't be shot can be a really big deal even it doesn't happen all that often. Basically if you roll really well it might actually ultimately be worse for you. So you have both the situation of rolling low OR high effectively being bad outcomes for you. Some of it has to do with the meta as well. You can't tie up vehicles completely now and the meta is vehicle heavy atm. Vehicles often have enough movement to kite melee units regardless as well. GSC are ideally killed at long range, if you are melee you will trade with them and that's bad considering their respawning. Necrons can take losses so bad they are out of consolidate range, have the unit come back to nearly full strength away from you and then shoot you. Knights aren't afraid of melee and Aeldari kite and immobilize with spinners. There's a lot of units across the index that reduce or prevent enemy movement and most of them are popular, biovores, barbs, spinners, etc. Desperate escape isn't that penalizing and doesn't seem to come up that often. If it's an expensive single unit you can command reroll it and you are more likely than not going to be fine even without the reroll. If it's infantry losing a third isn't that big of a deal if you are more likely to be wiped in combat anyway. Again, that's if desperate escape even applies...

[@Gamer-J22]

Thanks for explaining this more clearly than the book! I do think you need a more detailed example from start to finish though of a simple combat. Until I saw this video, I thought only the active player could consolidate and pile in, the non-active player just had to sit back and take it. I simply couldn't find anywhere indicating that those steps applied to the non-active player. The phrase "select a unit to fight" I thought meant just the active player, since that was the person actively selecting and moving models on the board. The entire "back and forth" thing blows my mind... Thus why I say a full example of BOTH the active and non-active players performing consolidation and pile in actions would be great.

[@effindave6909]

Every time a unit is selected to fight it gets to pile in before it fights regardless of who's turn it is.

[@elispiller2686]

You’re the GOAT AT! Wouldn’t have had a clue where to start back in 9th without ya!

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

Thank you for helping the community with these tutorials!

[@jamcam5180]

You should do a video explaining ongoing combat with a varity of scenarios involving multiple units. Multiple units who remained in combat also multiple units eho remained in combat vs 1 new charging unit. Its quite a intricate rule.

[@germanschnitzel9021]

This!!

[@franzmann3744]

Hoped for an example with characters attached to a unit or even more than one model. Example to push this as far as possible wonky Blood claws with captain and wolf guard in Terminator armour attached. Maybe some future content

[@njalst1066]

Some people say quantity over quality.....this is quality plus quality.

[@tristinhauptman5273]

In the example at 11:30, would the front 2 Space Marines be allowed to move forwards to a position where they're still in base-to-base contact with the termagant they started the phase in contact with, but are also in contact with other termagants? Sort of an encircling move? Or are models that begin the phase in base-to-base contact not allowed to make a pile in move at all?

[@Podman75]

So much great info here very well laid out.

[@sehgfx]

We had a fun situation where 2 units had fight first. we could not figure out how to resolve it and came to the conclusion that whoever charged was second. that ended up with neither of use wanting to charge the other

[@Kaptain_Gutrippa]

I believe that if they both have fights first it is just whoever’s turn isn’t going on

[@sehgfx]

@@Kaptain_Gutrippa yea it was wierd. i won since i used Berserkers with a Master of executions... he forgot Blood surge was a thing

[@gi1dor]

The same as with charge, it just gives unit the fight first this fight phase, so when both units have fight first (because of charge or abilities) order is the same as without charge, first chooses the player who is not turn is, so this why fight first ability is so powerful when someone charged you, because if someone charged you, you fights first because it's not your turn. Also if you charged with unit which already has fight first ability, it doesn't give it any additional bonuses, it anyway has fight first from charge You also can think about the situation when two of your units would charge (doesn't matter with the fight first ability or without, it doesn't give any advantages in this situation), and units which have been charged have fight first, your opponent chooses who fights first (it's not your turn), but when one of their units have fought, it's you turn to choose, and it always makes senses to choose another of your units, to hit another opponent's unit wich doesn't fight yet

[@OnlyNormalJT]

@@Kaptain_Gutrippa In the book, there is a Sequencing rule near the start that says the Player whose turn it is chooses the order of operation if two rules are happen simultaneously. The charging Player could decide to go first in this example. Fight first would apply more for Ongoing fighters since it would ensure that the unit always gets a hit in before their opponent. at least that's how I understood it.

[@ultranecronmarine2295]

Could you do an overview of boarding action in 10th please?

[@Dawwizer]

I payed 37 quid to learn how to play and your videos help me more than that coarse 😂 Quick follow up. To anyone who knows If i killed the enemy and had one 2 inches away and an objective 3 away could I choose to go to the objective or would I have to consolidate on the enemies first..?

[@effindave6909]

How is GW handling fighting through ruin walls this edition?

[@relint12]

I wish shooting phase activations worked similar to fight phase.

[@travis3571]

If you consolidate into another unit and some models that werent eligible to fight the first time because they were too far get into range, can they fight as well? Or is it just the one unit gets to fight the one time and thats its unless it Gets attacked back by another unit it never fought yet this round? If you consolidate into a new unit do you still get the fights first from the charge earlier the turn?

[@OldGuyRetros]

Praise to the rules of engagement, Dreadnoughts in footprints of ruins I need to know

[@jean-philippecarrier2216]

Quick question. E.g, there is 2 ennemy units. One at 6 inches and the other one at 9 inches. you want to secure the charge and you only declare the one at 6 inches. Does that mean now in 10th edition that you could do a charge on a unit at 6 inches, and then pile in 3 inches in the one at 9 inches, and still be able to attack both of the units ?

[@BillWD]

I'm interested to hear the answer to this as in 9th you had to declare both units for the charge. Also, if a unit without "fights first" charges a unit with "fights first" does the charging unit still get priority?

[@CalfOnTheRun]

@@BillWD to answer your second question, no. Charging gives the rule 'fights first' itself which is why it would normally get priority, but when both units have fights first they cancel each other out, so it just goes to the player who's turn it isn't, as your opponent gets to pick a unit to fight before you do (and of course if your charging that means its not your turn)

[@andrewlaidlaw7975]

Baised on the new rules I'm curious for attacking when did GW get rid of the initiative scores/stats for characters?

[@Svenskiii]

So charging the Lion allows him to hit you first? Even though charging him gives you fight first?

[@Duppyman695]

Yes, because if you both have Fight First or neither have Fight First then it's the person who's turn it ISN'T that Fights First!

[@dandaman9496]

One does not simply fight The Lion.

[@HallyFPV]

Can I clarify please? So if a unit charges it gets the "Fight First"... So it will fight first then the next player can fight back... So when those 2 fight phases are finished and it moves on to the next players battle round/turn do you still have the Fight First available on that unit in to the next round? Or does this only last for the round in which the charge was actually made? Hope that makes sense thanks

[@azbear2781]

If in the fight phase you kill a few models but still have a couple of different models or weapons to attack with, and the enemy removes the front line of models thus breaking engagement range does that then cancel out the rest of the fight?

[@Kazgrim]

Hey, sorry for the dumb question, but how long does the "Fights first" for a charging unit last? 1 round? 1 Turn? Till either the charging or charged unit is offd?

[@williamhuffman8840]

until the charging players turn ends. meaning as soon as the other players next turn starts that unit loses fights first.

[@joshgholson9098]

If you get charged, can the unit that got charged pile into a separate unit that didn’t charge?

[@fdehands7494]

Can a unit move, then shoot, then charge in the same battle round? Or no

[@tomadori5477]

Where in the core rulebook does it say in ongoing combats it is the non-charging player (defender) who will get to hit first?

[@matiasdiaz8913]

page 32

[@OnlyNormalJT]

I have the same question, as far as i undestud it was the Player's who's turn it is that chooses who goes first due to the sequencing rule. also i thought that the Charging units always go first and then any remaining fight first units go after that, then Ongoing fights.

[@tomadori5477]

@matiasdiaz8913 can you specify which para? Pg 32 goes over eligibility to fight, no unit can fight more than once in the phase, fight first (eligible units w/ keyword, and charge bonus) and remaining combats but I don't think the page covers my question

[@matiasdiaz8913]

@@tomadori5477 the first paragraph, you can read "In both steps of the Fight phase, players alternate selecting eligible units from their army, one at a time, starting with the player whose turn is not taking place" step one meaning units with the fight first ability and the second with units who don't have it

[@tomadori5477]

@@matiasdiaz8913 Ah I see! I completely overlooked that paragraph for some reason. Thanks!

[@thekoboldx]

Very good explanation, but i still have 2 questions: If the player whos Turn it is not, aka defender, is the last one to fight in the fight first block, will he still be the the first to fight in the Phase of the units who don’t fight first? And If a Unit whipes out another one during fight Phase and than consolidates into a new enemy Unit, will this Enemy Unit be able to attack in this turn?

[@Closet_Jedi]

Yes, because you've moved into another portion of the Fight Phase after all "Fights First" and charging units have fought. Yes, assuming the unit that was consolidated into is now eligible to fight and the fight phase does not end until all eligible units have fought.

[@vegankowalski5193]

If I have 3 Units in 1 fight. Let's say 2 Paladin Squads and 1 Unit of 2 Carnifex, my first Paladin Squad kills 1 Carnifex and now my second Paladin Squad is not in engagment of the second Carnifex anymore. Does that mean they cannot attack?

[@TheFyllekajja]

So when every unit has fought once, is the combat phase over, or can i continue fighting untill all eliblge units have killed whats close enough for pile in?

[@corruptedvessel9683]

Here's my question. Why do ranged units get to attack twice? Here is the scenario. A ranged unit shoots a melee unit on turn 1. The melee unit runs in and attacks the ranged unit, then the ranged unit can attack the melee unit back, all in turn 2. Then the ranged unit can move away and shoot the melee unit again on turn 3, the melee unit attacks on turn 4, so on and so forth. Why can ranged units attack twice while melee units can only attack once?

[@nicholasr.652]

AT .. im new to WH and cannot find a simple instruction for the actual rolling portion of the data sheets attack and defense .. played my first game and my opponent had to do all the math 🥺.. do you have a video ?

[@tomo_schmidt]

I really like how you explain the rules step by step. However, there is something I miss in both the shooting phase and the fighting phase video: How are things handled if a unit has one or more characters attached, whose stats differ from those of the bodyguard unit, e.g. a unit of Necron warriors (T4, SV4+) with an attached overlord (T5, SV2+; 4++), a cryptek and two cryptothralls (T4, SV3+, 4+++). Does positioning play a role in melee?

[@DJROCKSTAZ]

In addition, what happens if both units have fights first?

[@tomo_schmidt]

@@DJROCKSTAZ In that case fight first should be ignored and we follow the normal sequence.

[@DJROCKSTAZ]

@@tomo_schmidt thanks!

[@lt.danhooper1635]

Since an attached character counts as part of the unit, the defender chooses where to allocate attacks, unless an attacker's model has the [Precision] keyword, in which case the attacker chooses where to allocate that model's attack. Positioning plays no part unless the character's positioning would give Benefit of Cover against a shooting attack. Hope this helps

[@hasanuddinamiruddin6732]

as far as I know, if a unit get charged has fight first, that unit will fight first even charging unit has fight first ability and charging this turn. @@tomo_schmidt

[@Guitarkalle]

Does this mean that the non active player could pay 2cp to fight after a charging unit, and then it will go to the normal phase where he/she will pick a unit again, i.e. fight twice in a row?

[@dan13jb]

I don't believe so. The 2CP Counter Offensive interrupts the turn order, then the turn order continues to alternate from the interrupt so it's the turn of the player who did not interrupt next.

[@johnbaker7322]

I find the fact that two units in melee with the same unit can remove the possibility of one of them getting to swing really awful. I am fine with two units that want to shoot the same unit not getting to because models get removed and now the second unit is out of range because shooting is inherently strong. But it is difficult to get into melee and really absurd that when I swing with my guy on the right, models next to the guy on the left die and now he can't swing. He might not even be able to consolidate back into melee unless he charged this turn! This isn't an issue for two sizable units engaging across the enemy line but it's a real problem for melee walkers that come in tiny units of one or two. It's really ridiculous and it hampers tactics like having penitent engines engage from a long distance into the enemy as they are designed to do so the repentia or flagellants don't get shot on their way in. Next turn happens and the repentia charge and kill some models and suddenly the penitent engine doesn't get to swing or even remain in melee because you can't choose him to fight in order to consolidate since he did not charge and is not in engagement range anymore. If you begin a battle round engaged you should always get to at least consolidate imo. Honestly I think you should even still get to pile in and swing. I really don't like the rules for this.

[@Wineblood]

Now I know how to lose properly.

[@nittefils2465]

My GF gave me the Leviathan box for my birthday, so this will come in handy! 🎉

[@sabalmal1288]

Can anyone explain the rules of the non turn player gets to attack first if both units are in engagement range. For some reason this rules make absolutely no sense to me. Like its my turn I should be able to attack because I initiated it and so do they when it is their turn. How is that not fair, please help?

[@rossbowskill2339]

If you ever want to do a ‘New To Warhammer 10th Edition’ series that answers newbies questions to the game that is abit grey on the rule … I volunteer myself as tribute

[@darktank0875]

So I've had this issue in previous games where I'm confused on how damage/unit works where even if I delt 12 wounds from a unit of 3 aggressors I still only kill 3 out of 5 space Marines (how my friend says it is) I'm not sure if he's wrong or if he's right

[@EnigmaMachine94]

Your wounds don’t carry across models unless the data sheet says otherwise, so for example, if one attack is strong enough to kill three opposing models (say it’s damage 6) it’d still only kill one model because it’s only one attack

[@InsidiousDr9]

Can you pile with movement ignoring friendly troops?

[@dbird162004]

I may have missed if you said this, but does this mean the enemy/non turn player also gets to pile in and consolidate after fighting (getting some movement on a turn that isnt theirs)?

[@effindave6909]

Yep, every time you fight regardless of who's turn it is.

[@dbird162004]

@@effindave6909 ok cool. Thanks for the clarification.

[@Rich20519]

When activating to fight; does a charachter leading a unit, fight with a unit its leading (i.e as one activation) or can my opponent 'interrupt' after my squad has fought (for example), but before before the leader has fought?

[@theprussianmink]

The character is part of the unit and fights with them (one activation).

[@theprussianmink]

"While a Bodyguard unit contains a Leader, it is known as an Attached unit and, with the exception of rules that are triggered when units are destroyed (pg 12), it is treated as a single unit for all rules purposes." Core rules page 39

[@russsandbags1967]

Can you consolidate into engagement range? Like if it’s a new enemy unit near an objective??

[@BIFInvaider]

yes, either it have to be in ER or to an objective.

[@russsandbags1967]

@@BIFInvaider ok thanks! Wasn’t sure if you could consolidate into CC with a new unit, but sounds like you can (with caveats)

[@dominicpizano887]

PLEASE DO GSC

[@auspextactics]

OK

[@codyott1982]

I tried watching all of his videos, but it's impossible.

[@yveshermans1869]

Now cover and ruind etc! :p

[@omegaomtv]

This guys has to be an Ai. No mistakes in his speech and no change in tempo. Not mocking it. Its good and if AI sounds way better then most.

[@jamo3976]

I hope GW pays you and pays you well. My only connections to 40k are you and Play On Tabletop

[@martyjean]

Anyone care to speculate how long this video will remain accurate?

[@ohwnosrepeht]

2 months?

[@patrykmioduszewski9047]

@@ohwnosrepeht You think they will change core rules regarding melee and towering in 2 months?

[@beowylfen]

I wish melee weapons had ranges, itd makethis make so much more sense.

[@CrazyMongol123]

Dude - i'm watching rn and my gode - please please - start to read it with some pauses and accentuation!

[@andrewbusch444]

Hi!

[@chrisvillegas5182]

whew too bad abaddon cannot attack with drachnyen and talon simultaenously 😅

[@thegorefatherdonkhorneleon5159]

Starting with your opponent is stupid and ine of the worst decisions they have made.

[@dandaman9496]

Only if their unit has fights first does this happen. If you charge you receive fights first and your guys attack first.

[@Bloodworia]

How are they so bad at writing rules and leaving out certain scenarios after 10 editions?

[@lazyvipurr4698]

You REALLY need to space out your words, and speak in a less monotone voice. It makes it extremely hard to listen to you, but other wise good information.

[@aaronnunavabizniz199]

No he doesn't. His voice and pacing has the opposite effect than what you're implying.

[@RCsev070]

first

[@RCsev070]

I'd like to thank my family, god and the unshaking belief I have in myself, after nearly 30 years on the web I finally did it.

[@nickhall3111]

​​@@RCsev070 heard Auspex himself is going to give you a shout out next video as well as six free Lion El'Jonsons.

[@thomassmart4227]

Blue shell First

[@dang5736]

@@RCsev070what a great day for America! Congratulations brother, you deserve it. Soak it in!