RWBY 9x08 "Tea Amidst Terrible Trouble" - reaction & review

[@GooWell726]

Everyone at the tea party was all Neo's doing. Her *only* desire was to exact revenge on Ruby. She did that. And now, she has no purpose left. (Hence, the cat possessed her)

[@BlueMoon56832]

Part of me wonders if she will come back if ruby does Like...is neo's fate tied to ruby because her purpose is to kill ruby

[@GooWell726]

@@BlueMoon56832 i feel like she'll go down along with the cat since they possessed her. If not, I really don't see her having a place in the show after this volume. She's kinda earned her spotlight now

[@CageNightwind]

@@GooWell726 She's probably going to pull the tried and true cliche of taking control back just long enough to let them kill her or off herself..Sadly. And you know it's going to be Ruby. The first human life she actually takes on purpose.

[@PrismOpal64]

idk the first thing I thought of was why didn't Neo think "okay, Ruby's gone now onto the next schmuck who wronged me, Cinder" lol

[@ericjohnson6120]

Waaaaaay back in V4, team RWBY split. While Weiss, Blake, and Yang went on journeys of self-discovery and took time to process the fall of Beacon, Ruby just kept moving forward. She's had all this pressure and I'm sure learning about the power of silver eyes and Salem's immortality didn't help.

[@morlock2012]

Ruby's been living a fairytale until now. Where the hero *will* save the world. Hopefully she can learn to accept that she did the best she could.

[@jdoggivjc]

Billy Kametz was a very well-known EN VA (Naofumi in Shield Hero; Shin in 86) who died of cancer last year. He was the VA who was selected to voice Torchwick in RWBY: Ice Queendom and again in Vol 9 after his original VA left Rooster Teeth (and it was not an amicable split). Unfortunately his cancer progressed to the point where he couldn’t work anymore, and then later he passed away. It really affected the entire EN anime community as Billy was well loved by almost everyone.

[@hajime9958]

:( knowing this was the last voiced character by Billy Kametz and he did great as Roman Torchwick in "Tea amidst terrible trouble" Rip Icon Billy ☹️😭 u were too young and kind. I'm not over this. ☹️😭☹️☹️😭☹️😭

[@TheNaughtySenpai]

Ruby saying "I don't want to be me anymore" hits harder every time I rewatch this.

[@sonicboomkj]

Crunchyroll messed up twice. The first thumbnail was of Torchwick and then the second thumbnail was the table view with Penny, Pyrrha & Leo.

[@BlaireRabbit1440]

27:12 Yeah they changed it! When it first came up up it was a closeup of Roman's face haha!

[@Zack_Zander]

Another was the image of Penny and Pyhrra, which was an even bigger spoiler (I believe was 15:17)

[@DigiCount]

Followed by PENNY AND PYRRHA AT THE TABLE. Freaking heck.

[@spahgames]

It's so sad, "If you follow me you're going to end up dead too", and then she follows Ruby and dies, proving Ruby right

[@morlock2012]

Yeah. But, I get the impression Little is a mirror of Ruby's 'smaller soul'. In which case, they'll be back in some new form, maybe be a better guide (I'm hoping for a dog big enough to give the Cat some payback...)

[@Paintballpro18]

​@@morlock2012call it, little red riding hood ;)

[@sanjaynandalall2260]

​@@Paintballpro18AYYEEE, thats clever

[@peachesplums]

"since when can Neos things talk" since four chapters ago. since the book about her childhood even

[@CageNightwind]

Oh and as for Little.. Thankfully, though depressing.... They were killed as an Everafteran, not killed by a Jabberwock or anything.. They'll be back, even if they don't remember anyone.. But I do think they'll remember Ruby. After all, when people go to the tree, they are made into the more perfect form they need to be to accomplish what their purpose is. When Ruby met Little they said they didn't have a purpose yet... But over time they made "Guiding Ruby" their purpose.. So I think they'll be coming back as a perfect guide for Ruby. Everything Ruby will need in a guide and friend.

[@LuckyStarShi-Roku]

It was All Neo's doing the reason her Clones can talk and act like real people now is because being in the ever after has given her Semblance a power boost

[@gohanmoreno7]

Neo may be a psycopathic monster, but what an actress she is too, Penny talking about how Ruby, her best friend, failed her so many times, crushed my heart, even knowing that it was an illution, of course it would be devastating for Ruby (props to Penny's voice actress, she always fill her dialogues with such feelings!)

[@RussTheMaster]

I don’t think Little is dead because she’s Everafteren. And the only way she can die is by being eaten by the Jaberwalker. Also Little fell into the tree with Rudy. So Little could be “repurposed” by the tree.

[@1215298]

Well, it's not the "only" way an Afterin can die: the cat said that not everything needs to die and that the Jabberwalker stops Ascension, but not that nothing could never die...period. I do imagine Little will come back though...

[@ChaiaEran]

Little uses they/them pronouns.

[@BuzryHaproMandalorianHunter]

Don’t care what anybody says, Neo does not deserve a redemption after what she did in this chapter.

[@renorasearcy7874]

she didn't deserve redemption after what she did in the ending of volume 8

[@sethporter9066]

Agreed, and the best part? Now they can kill the Cat _and_ Neo at the same time!

[@NobodyImportant5023]

She never needed or wanted redemption. Neo's just a psychopath, killing with a smile on her face. Doesn't mean she still can't be my favorite character.

[@richardrojas9387]

OK but i want redemption hahaha

[@NobodyImportant5023]

@@richardrojas9387 The only way I see that is if they will make her ascend.

[@lavidaesunviaje5169]

"It's not a place to go, it's a place you know". The tree is not a place, it is a state of mind.

[@PheonixFire]

Ruby's sad "Please stop..." always gets me 😢

[@Outlawsrevenge1020]

The scene where Ruby pushes everyone away, even Little, really speaks to me. I hadn't processed any of my trauma, and what I needed was a friend to help me through it, but instead, I isolated myself and pushed people away who just wanted to help. I just feel for her.

[@ColdGoldLazarus]

I think something interesting, if sad, from a thematic standpoint, is how Penny and Little are sorta representative of Ruby's hope. After Beacon fell, that hope died for a bit, but as we know later, Penny was brought back in atlas sometime between V3 and V7; even if Ruby didn't know it yet, her sense of hope was still out there somewhere, just enough to keep pushing on. Penny's return in V7 marked an upswing in Ruby's outlook, even if it was now a bit inexorably tied to and corralled by Atlas. And then all the hardship and stress Penny suffers in V8 due to her new role as Maiden shows that hope beginning to strain again, but she's still there, and that's enough for Ruby to keep doing her best to get things done, even in the face of everything they're up against. And then Dark happens, and the reveal of the SEW's corruption and the possibility of the same happening to Summer, and that's also when Penny's hacking from Watts becomes clear. Penny gets her new form, freed of the corruption but much more fragile; as they enact the plan they hope can save the people of Atlas and Mantle, Ruby's hope fragile but still there. And then Cinder happens. In the start of V9, I noticed that with everything that had just happened, Ruby was definitely not doing great, but still able to push on like she usually does - the Ever After actively forcing her to stop and stay in place was the only way for the despair to really catch up with her, and even then Little was there to help cheer her up. It isn't until Weiss finally admits what happened that Ruby's mood really takes a turn, and after waking up, her voice is a lot flatter, more emotionally exhausted, and in some places outright bitter than it ever had been previously. Even still, there's Little, and their moments of interaction are when she still feels the most like herself again. (Sidenote, but notice in Episode 2, when the Jinxy peddler asks Ruby for "enough hope to fill this jar", the first shot has it framed over the Jade Marionette representing Penny, but then another shot a second or so later has it framed over Little now instead, when the latter pops up to steal it.) But even with them there to try and help, there's only so much they can do, (Ruby's hope is very small and a bit helpless right now) and her mental health continues to deteriorate as they go, the Ever After or the Cat creating distraction after distraction to keep her friends from ever realizing just how bad a state she's in, until it hits that boiling point in Episode 7. Ruby and Jaune have their simultaneous breakdowns that just fuel and feed into each other worse, and Little is too scared to speak up or do anything but hide in Ruby's hood. And then this episode. Little once again tries to help Ruby, but she's so exhausted and frustrated and hurt that she just pushes them away, rejecting her own sense of hope in a way. But Little still follows. (I noticed that when Ruby told them to go home, they were probably about to respond "But you're my home" before she cut them off again.) And then everything with Neo happens, reopening all her wounds, whether they be old ones dating back to Beacon's fall with Pyrrha and Ozpin, or fresh not-even-healed ones with Penny and Ironwood. Even despite all of that, Little's still there in the chandelier, and Ruby has enough of herself left to try and fight and argue back, still trying to keep on going. Even so, that dirty trick with the Oscar illusion winds up being a big blow in that regard, and she starts to succumb to despair, which the Cat's betrayal further drives in. Still, there's just barely enough hope left to try to fight back against that, as Little bites the Cat's tail to distract them. It isn't until Neo returns, and crushes Little, that that hope is finally crushed for real, and Ruby drinks the tea. But, as others have pointed out, Little is an afteran, and fell with Ruby. Despite everything, here in the Ever After is a unique situation where rebirth can happen, both for Ruby and for Little. Even when her hope is truly dead, it still won't be gone forever, and is soon to be reborn into something better and stronger than before. I've seen theories about what they may come back as, but there are two particular ones I like best. The first being that instead of Little, they may become Big - a big, bad wolf, except this time unconditionally on Little Red's side. Alternatively, there's a thought that they might have been a reincarnation of Penny all along, (Penny's body also fell into the Ever After, there were vines (like the ones that covered the hole Ruby fell down in this episode) near where Blake and Weiss landed, Little was established as very very young IE just recently Ascended, and some overlap in mannerisms, along with again, representing Ruby's sense of hope) and they'll reincarnate back into a third version of her. Whatever winds up being the case I look forward to it all the same, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't hoping for the second option in particular.

[@pokeloon15]

Billy Kametz voiced some of Torchwick's lines in this episode. After Gray G. Haddock left Rooster Teeth (for reasons I am unaware of at this moment) Billy was meant to take his place for this episode and Ice Queendom. Unfortunately however, he was diagnose with colon cancer last February. After he passed Christopher Wehkamp (who also voices our lucky soldier Clover) took over the role for Roman in IQ and finished up the voice work for this episode.

[@bluejays25]

I thought they did a great job. Wouldn't have thought that it was two people doing the voice.

[@pokeloon15]

@@bluejays25 I know right. If I didn't know any better I would have assumed it was Gray still doing the voice.

[@alicesanimations7936]

So basically! The “tea party” and the dead people were all neos doing, they can talk because her semblance has evolved like rens did in v8 The cat saying it was “trying to whittle her down” was basically it’s subtle jabs towards ruby in the previous episodes that slowly broke down her confidence, you don’t notice it until you look back on it and realise those were more than just sarcastic comments from the cats Great reaction as always!

[@AstralMuffin105]

The whole "tea party" was Neo's doing. Her Semblance evolved when she landed in the Ever After(the multiple Jabberwalkers that attacked the market and village were her doing as well). Also, I don't think Little is dead, seeing as they are an Afteran, and they went to the Tree with Ruby. They'll ascend and take a new form, likely when Ruby does the same.

[@Zack_Zander]

The Jabberwalker that Neo created spoke.

[@marie-evesimard725]

All those fallen allies torturing Ruby with guilt was very difficult to watch. Also, that cat is just terrifying.

[@shemehaza8831]

I love your reactions, your so into it, every time someone get hurt it's like you are stab too xD

[@antobono64]

Sounds like they changed the thumbnail it was originally straight up roman on the thumbnail

[@Zack_Zander]

First it was Roman which was a subtle spoiler. But than briefly they doubled down and changed the thumbnail to the group at the Tea Party, which was a MUCH bigger spoiler. Literally Penny and Pyhrra was on the thumbnail.

[@billa3785]

It is a shame you never see the second painting right next to the family photo, to shed a little more suggestive insight into Neo's trauma (reason she doesn't talk). Unless it is in one of the books which you shouldn't have to read to follow along with the overall story of RWBY.

[@billa3785]

The person that died was the voice actor for Torchwick who must have done the script before his passing.

[@Koalaballawalla]

You gotta read Roman’s holiday it’s referenced in the portraits

[@davidssubwaycookies190]

Wait when the cat said he was cursed maybe the gods cursed him at well

[@sethporter9066]

Well he did say he "had to know why they left him in the EA to make all of [you]," which implies as much

[@doryinsanime6862]

I in joy your reaction and I wish can hug you okay.🎉

[@doryinsanime6862]

That episode made me so sad Ruby,angry at Neo,Cat. That was cruel,crazy,scary.

[@hansolav5924]

I'm not convinced 'neo's things' are entirely drawn from neo's power...I believe a hefty chunk of conscious EA stuff is in there, too. Nevermind a broken chunk of neo's mind taking on the 'role' of Torchwick for her. and of course, 'repurposing' is what EA is all about in the long run. I reckon 'torchwick' suggested it as a way to deal with ruby, and worded it so as to sound like she'd be eradicated. :)

[@Emerald-t7k]

I thought something similar because he wasn't a physical being the whole time. Before Ruby drinks the tea it shows just her and neo there.

[@RobVil]

"nope, that didnt happen, that didnt happen to little" i was huffing that same copium for a bit lol, then remembered that he didnt get killed by a jabberwocker so hes fine c:

[@cbhsoulreaper1393]

The cat, he said he wanted to find his creators to find out why they created something. Could he have been talking about the Brothers.?🤔

[@Maiko134]

That was all Neo. The cat just took advantage of Ruby's mental state.

[@nick14164]

Neo has been trying to kill rwby since volume 3 she fixated on doing that instead of grieving. So now that it’s done she doesn’t know what to do, it didn’t bring Torchwick back it didn’t make her feel better. She’s shut down. But hopefully that means she can come back assuming the possession doesn’t end fatally.

[@dyln31]

the warning at the beginning was so beautifully written

[@call_me_Greg]

And as others have pointed out, Little is not dead since they are an Afteran, they can only ascend unless they are eaten by the Jabberwalker.

[@htaylor9677]

friggn love Neo... all of that was Neo

[@hansolav5924]

it is downright hilarious that it's Ironwood and Oz making the accusations they do. talk to the mirror, babes.

[@call_me_Greg]

Crunchyroll's original thumbnail was Roman (the one I saw). I believe that they then changed it to Penny and Pyrrha, which wasn't much better. Finally they changed it to the correct one that RT gave them.

[@eliudesantos3237]

It was Neo.since the beggining. The Cat attacked Neo to get to Ruby, then Neo returned.to fight The Cat and finish Ruby.

[@Izzyisneon]

Neo's semblance upgraded when she got to the ever after, the jabberwalkers she made could talk too remember

[@scooty4743]

Once again Robbie Daymond being fantastic at voicing villains.

[@hajime9958]

:( knowing this was the last voiced character by Billy Kametz and he did great as Roman Torchwick in "Tea amidst terrible trouble" rip icon Billy ☹️😭

[@sanjaynandalall2260]

cool of you to add that intro text 🙏❤

[@cbhsoulreaper1393]

Love the red in your hair.😊

[@MsAlexisLaree]

The no no no no no 😅 that was exactly my reaction too

[@jdogx211]

What's wicked-er, Neo TALKING, or that SMILE!?

[@kokosilenzio]

Love the opening

[@madsword19]

I'm picking the cat either guessed Neo's plans, and didn't interfere until Ruby was good and broken, or outright manipulated Neo into that plan. The Cat simply underestimated Neo, which cost him Ruby. And underestimated her revenge being all-consuming until after it was done. The mental torture in that house was all Neo though. Side note: typical villain - the Cat failed to get Ruby due to monologuing.

[@NobodyImportant5023]

That's probably end for Neo, and I'm happy with the way it went. She's my favorite character. My best girl stayed herself till the very end, and I can't imagine her going out with a bigger bang. Applause Neopolitan.

[@Emerald-t7k]

i feel like ruby and jaune were the most mentally affected out of all the characters we got this volume is because they didn't get a mental break like yang Blake and Weiss did. Weiss was locked in schnee manor with nothing but time to think and find perspective, Blake tried to push beason out of her mind and focus on the white fang but eventually worked through it, yang had her own personal loss to work through as well as beacon as a whole and took time out of the fight to work on herself. ruby and jaune (as well as Ren and Nora) immediately kept the fight up and didn't stop for breaks. I think that's also why Ren and Nora also seem to be more affected by the fight then wby is. with Nora feeling useless and Ren feeling like a failure, because they never stopped either. taking breaks and time for yourself is essential. it doesn't make your commitment to your cause any less valid. and I think that's one of the lessons we're meant to take. imo. idk 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@TriStain69]

Neo hasn't been able to make talking people before, no, but she's gotten a LOT stronger since coming to Ever After (as we can see from her fight with the Jabberwalker). I think Ever After being a place of mystery just strengthens her illusion making abilities even further

[@Yashieyama]

Need to unpack some corrections: The cat wasnt the one making those illusions, it was all neo, her semblance happen to evolve. Alex and louis are not who the cat is referring to, it was talking about the gods of light and darkness. Little got rekted and fell in the hole with ruby, because its an afteran, it doesnt stay dead, it ascends to be reborn and made as something new.

[@grimreapress8578]

It was all Neo. But the reason her copies were talking I'm sure is because of the Jabberwalker she killed and copied. Since the Jabberwalker could talk. That's my speculation at least. But another explanation could simply be the fact that Neo's powers evolved like Ren's did. She herself can't talk, but she may have found a way to use her copies to do it for her instead.

[@justinneal6170]

Dude right?? I actually felt bad but when she stepped on little I was legit done 😂 I’ve felt nothing since lmao

[@chrisk3127]

kinda dumb that Neo didn't want revenge on Cinder too. the in memory of was for a VA

[@madhavmandava]

Well atleast Neo got a taste of irony....all that wanting to break someone only to end up broken....all because she had something to focus on she forgot about herself.....instant reality check

[@MelissaHime]

True! It was beautifully done!

[@TenebrousFilms]

Yes, that *was* all Neo, right up until the cat blasted her out of her own house. How would the cat know the appearance, behaviour or voice of anyone in that menagerie of ghosts? Yes, the cat wanted to break Ruby down, but Neo succeeded where he failed. This would've been the perfect opportunity for Ruby to tell Neo how Roman died, because no one *does* know 'how that turned out' except Ruby. The writers probably forgot that; wouldn't be the first time. And bear in mind, Neo was never part of the original plan; she was pulled out of a cosplayer's butt when someone realised the villains needed a fourth for opening round of the tournament. Ruby was obviously the one to be possessed. I would've liked to have known what was originally supposed to happen...

[@kickstand801]

1. If you're gonna scream give us a heads up please.😂 2. Im sooo happy you didnt get hyped over seeing those returning (dead) characters. You understood what was going on, unlike some reactors. 3. Poor Ruby. It's bad enough that she's depressed and feels a tremendous amount of guilt, but for her past mistakes to come bacl and haunt her like THAT? Neo needs to get that ass kicked. 4. Seeing Penny and Pyrrha again was messed up, especially Pyrrha. That was Ruby's 1st traumatic experience watching her die right in front of her. 5. Ozpin beating the brakes off of Ruby, after he handpicked her to be a part of the academy despite her age and made her the team leader? Great writing but just as dark. 6. Watching Little die, another innocent being Ruby failed to save. If that didnt trigger her 'suicide' idk what will. Ok that's enough. Good stuff overall.😂

[@moso-qs6pn]

Damn they gave her the red hood treatment

[@make756perday]

"Success does not consist in never making mistakes but in never making the same one a second time." _George Bernard Shaw

[@madhavmandava]

My my my.... aren't you very compassionate about advising people....keep up the hope and encouragement....we need it

[@MelissaHime]

This season was so rough to get through! It really beat me down, but I'm holding out hope for a happy ending when it's all said and done!

[@madhavmandava]

@@MelissaHime trouble is....Rwby so far showing there are no happy endings for anyone....but atleast they stay strong thanks to their bonding

[@jdogx211]

You see what's gonna happen right? Ruby's gonna come back. Noes gonna wanna kill her and spits the cat out. She, Neo, kills the cat. And Ruby's is gonna be a Terminator-done-with-this-S#!+ and kill Neo. And next seasons gonna be trying to turn Ruby nice again. Maybe?

[@topgamer101]

Christ people talking over the entire episode so you can't hear anything is so infuriating. Part of the reason why I started to stop watching these. Can't enjoy the show with the person talking over everything meaningful in the episode.

[@MelissaHime]

Sorry you didn't enjoy it.

[@4EverBanishment]

Can you react to Everything Wrong With RWBY Volumes 1 - 7 please?? 🙏 🙏 🙏

[@jairusjackson7799]

No, Neo was 100% behind the tea scene and the mental battle she put Ruby through. The cat wouldn't have any of that information nor could it take the forms of the multiple characters at the table. I don't completely understand how her clones are able to talk but it was 100% Neo, the cat's the one who snuck in. And to what you said about it seemed like Neo didn't want it to happen. That was just sloppy writing, trying to show that she feels some regret about her actions a mere five seconds after committing them.

[@jeffreysmith236]

There is nothing wrong with the writing. Neo doesn't feel regret, she feels NOTHING. She didn't even react to the threat of the cat. NOTHING.

[@Kaempfdog]

There’s a big difference between regret and thinking what’s next and having no idea. It’s like Thor going for the head. It doesn’t resolve the hatred OR the problem. It’s why revenge is so hallow. You lose someone you contemplate on that person’s life and how to move on. Revenge often doesn’t do that and when it’s done, there’s no next step. And if there’s one thing that villains are good at, it’s reflection. And by that I mean, that is often what a villain is the WORST at. Neo wanted to avenge Roman. But there was no next step, no idea what to do with her life, or how to even process that she has what she wanted. It didn’t make her feel better about Roman’s death. I don’t think it’s lazy writing. Not saying it was perfect, but it wasn’t outright flawed in approach.

[@jairusjackson7799]

@@Kaempfdog She shouldn't be thinking what's next mere seconds after committing her crime she should be thinking, I did it, I finally did it, she's dead! Then maybe an episode later we can have her feeling empty, but to immediately jump to that is sloppy in my opinion. This is what she wanted for over three volumes!

[@Kaempfdog]

@@jairusjackson7799 it’s not impossible for it to come quickly. If I took revenge and said I did it! Now I can…and blanked completely, that hollow feeling would happen WAY faster than any satisfaction could last. What could’ve fixed the speed of this scene is if Neo were smiling ear to ear after accomplishing her goal, but as the inner monologue occurs, she realizes nothing was resolved and it falls into that blank face she had. It’s not like she’s unintelligent and it can’t cross her mind. Most of the time a revenge plot’s motivation and drive doesn’t fall apart til hindsight. That and only that. Get me? Again, I don’t think it’s perfect, but I also don’t think it’s sloppy.

[@AecoYT]

@@Kaempfdog I don't think you know what "hallow" means^^ The word you're looking for is "hollow", by the way. ;)

[@jairusjackson7799]

I don't know exactly how Neo knows details about characters she would've never met. Or events she wasn't there for, like she definitely shouldn't know Penny died again, she'd already fallen at that point. But ignoring that I think the idea for the tea scene was cool I just wish Ruby fought back a bit. Also did her team really just stand there and let kill herself by drinking the tea? Guess they don't care after all😑.........

[@peachesplums]

she had penny ask if she died again at atlas, almost like she didn't know. she had Lion heart stay silent the entire time and not fight, almost like she'd only seen pictures

[@jairusjackson7799]

@@peachesplums She only made her clones appear as dead characters. Implying she knows Penny died again, she knew Cinder had fought Penny very recently so she knows Penny was alive recently. So then why put her at the table of the dead? If it was because Ruby saw her die once, then why not put her design from volume 3 which she died in? No, it was her Volume 8 design, it just heavily implies Neo knows Penny died again, but how?!

[@antobono64]

I think its more like she just needs to think of the person and would bring them back but with her mindset and if thats the case then that just goes to show how powerful neo has becoming

[@smockboy]

@@jairusjackson7799 It's reasonable for Neo to have come to that conclusion, though. Neo was aware that Nora, Ren, Oscar, and Emerald had already passed through the one-way door; and every other remaining combatant that Neo had seen in the junction place is in the EverAfter (Team RWBY and Jaune). It's very reasonable for her to conclude that Cinder won and (though incorrect) to assume that Cinder would have taken the Spring Maiden power and thus have killed Penny. It's also possible that her Overactive Imagination Semblance works using the imaginations of those around her (not just her own) to create realistic solid illusions and/or that her Semblance is much more powerful in the EverAfter because the place seems be a physical manifestation of the concept of imagination but those are just wild speculations on my part.

[@peachesplums]

@@jairusjackson7799 except that it's obvious she doesnt.the way she doesn't really use Lion heart shows how little she knows about him, and also that he's even there means she's using people Asus es would hurt Ruby, not knowing that Lion heart was a traitor