Mercedes needs drastic action after getting 2023 F1 car badly wrong

[@scgordy1212]

I really didn't think a team like Mercedes would get it wrong two seasons in a row. I really thought last year was going to be a wake up call and they would be back in form this year.

[@YUNGDRAYK]

The cost cap really screwing them. They can’t just throw 100Mil at the problem anymore. They have to engineer their way out of their middle field car. Which honestly this year they are done and next year will be probably be the same. Teams Like RB and Aston already on the proper development while Ferrari and Merc will have to fix and change their cars concepts to compete.

[@timf3099]

@@YUNGDRAYK Well-summarized.

[@rumelahmed4539]

Lol, this team was doing bad cars every year before 2014 lol

[@xxxxyyyxxxx584]

Someone mentioned Merc has more diversity hires than any of the other teams. Not saying it's the pure cause, but something to keep an eye on.

[@pakoutac]

@@rumelahmed4539 Mercedes bought BrawnGP in 2010 and Brawn won a title in 2009, the 2013 merc was also not a bad car, It won a few races. Get your facts straight.

[@quigglyz]

Horner tried to do Toto a favor by telling him “change your f*cking car.” Merc should have listened 😂

[@UhOhUmm]

They did change it, compared to last year a lot has changed, but not enough. And now they have a problem, they won't have enough money in the budget to change it in any way, it will only happen next year or even 2 years later.

[@DefinitelyNotEmma]

Horner is such a straight forward guy, I love him for that lol

[@christianorsa]

💀🤣

[@titancheat]

​@@PineappleBusterWilliams even switched from zero pod to ferrari and now rb style. Albon got top 10 😀

[@gasoowannab]

@@UhOhUmm they didn’t change it enough. The no-side pod theory isn’t working

[@RX-0_FPV]

What is going on with the undersides of these floors? We keep talking about sidepods and things we can see but I'm curious how different the underside of the cars are.

[@bennnnnification]

That's what it's really all about. Merc would kill for a good shot of RB's underside.

[@ChrispyNut]

I imagine everyone is, but until we get crashes, leading to the cars being lifted, so that pictures can be taken of the underside, we're all going to be left waiting and wondering. Of course, it'll still be quite speculative when it comes to how that underside interacts with the edges and top-side.

[@mrsoisauce9017]

The undersides of the cars are hidden, so all we can see is the side pods to see how they move the air

[@henkormel5610]

​@@bennnnnification They had, last year in Spain and that didn't help. I think it is still underestamated the importance of floorsealing. The better the sealing, the higher the ride height can be.

[@xRedxxWolfx]

I think everyone is curious about that, and I'm sure the teams would love to see the bottom of the Redbull.

[@garythefishable]

I'm more upset that Ferrari have got it wrong again. They are a bit like Barcelona FC for me, I hated them at their best but now I miss them like nothing else 😢

[@mandarinandthetenrings2201]

No their car doesn't have grip, and not only that they car eats through their tires.

[@footyball66]

Ferrari have reliability issues way too often. Even if they were faster than Red bull they'd probably lose the title due to reliability and poor strategy, poor pit stops.

[@kkrsnn5632]

Hala Madrid. They cant get it right for many years now... They had and have the drivers able to do it, but they lack elsewhere...

[@metisa0034]

​@@mandarinandthetenrings2201 U are wrong. They have too much grip that it is graining their tyre. Kinda like overheating rubber due to too much friction.

[@swordsman1137]

Ferrari idea is not entirely wrong. They proof their aero is as good as RB in qualification. The problem is tyre deg in Sunday.

[@Gothmog2266]

So much of Mercedes' apparent decline has to do with the others catching up in the engine department. Even in Mercedes' dominant 2014-2020 run, the Red Bull was still considered by many a match in terms of aero, chassis, mechancial grip etc. The main source of the gap was the dominance of the merc engine over the woeful renault in the RB. Even still, RB managed to win races at the less power sensitive circuits (only in 2015 did they fail to win a race). When Honda finally gave RB a competitive engine in 2021, RB was Merc's equal. And I think in these regs we are seeing that RB's design team is simply superior.

[@jamesrobinson4042]

Absolutely bang on man. Everyone I have spoken to about F1 since the start of the hybrid era has said i was wrong for having this opinion but I'm glad we are being proven right.

[@Miles0370]

Well they did offer more $$ and persuaded a lot of teams top staff to come to redbull

[@remsrhythm9408]

they also poached top Mercedes engineers

[@chiefdenis]

Nah, let's stop revising history, mercedes had the best aero by leaps and bounds before the fia with help from brawn, decided to nerf the diffuser, floor and brake duct wings, it was never just engine, they were just better than everyone aerodynamically before 2021, lets not act like williams and force india didn't have the same engine

[@sailor7537]

Given that Aston Martin produced the 2nd quickest car in Bahrain with many Mercedes components, I doubt it's the engine that the problem. It's the overall aerodynamic concept that could be a problem.

[@Russian__hammer]

Another year of everyone having a target on their back

[@mohammadnashitsiddiqui2168]

Cuz Mercedes still behind LOL

[@tundaslug07]

If you thought you seen his best last year wait til this year

[@mineralwater6736]

@@mohammadnashitsiddiqui2168 dude stfu rb was doing the same since 2014-2020 but you weren't watching f1 back than were you??

[@mohammadnashitsiddiqui2168]

@@mineralwater6736 LMAO salty AF! Learn to take an L, couldn't shut up when you were winning, can't do it when you're losing. How's the "we will win" working for you?

[@memolano100]

Lol 😂

[@mrthewhite2620]

I can't help to think back to 2022 testing when the side pods were revealed and all the Sky presenters were losing their shit over how amazing it was and how fast it must be before the car even turned a single lap. Doing something different than everyone else doesn't always mean fastest, sometimes it just means you missed the mark.

[@EntropicExergy]

Haas dismissed the idea in early design phases, that should tell you all you need to know.

[@drewpoulos]

Same as dual axis steering being the "game over" Innovation everyone thought it would be

[@maxr6886]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing

[@The_ZeroLine]

Sky has always loved Mercedes.

[@F1FanCanuck]

In fairness, almost every British journalist and pundit was convinced Merc and Hamilton would get it right over the winter, so gleefully willing were they to blindly accept all of Toto’s arrogant corporate nonsense.

[@camf7522]

Lewis was 51 seconds behind Max, and Max had backed right off cruising 10 seconds ahead his team mate.

[@bullettime8760]

Yeah both Red Bulls are a beast, they literally been told by the garage to turn the engine down for the last stint of the race just to save reliability 💀 they're essentially the 2016 Mercedes

[@RukaGoldheart]

And in terms of raw pace Alonso's Aston was surprisingly good.

[@barneyklingenberg4078]

@@RukaGoldheart Alonso kept pace with Checo once running free. He was very impressive.

[@RukaGoldheart]

@@barneyklingenberg4078 let's hope the future upgrades will close the gap.

[@b3at2]

@@RukaGoldheart They wont.

[@alejandroquinones3636]

They got carried away and misled with some of the results. Don't remember where, but I recall hearing that they decided to stick with the design because of good results like Brazil, even though the reality was that RB got the setup completely wrong that race. From what Toto has been saying, it seems that the concept just won't work.

[@mohammadnashitsiddiqui2168]

Imagine if RB bluffed a race to cruise through another season

[@acomingextinction]

​@@mohammadnashitsiddiqui2168 Honestly, if anyone on the grid could pull off that kind of bluff, it's Horner. I'm not a RB fan but he's a clever little bastard.

[@lukeearthcrawler896]

Brazil 2022 was on November 16. By that time they were fully committed to the design you see now.

[@franp19]

A lot of people say that because of the sprint race RB couldn’t change their the ride height they had chosen. So they bamboozled the mercs forsure

[@mrfliperic]

Peter Windsor has been adamant about that idea, interesting to listen to, despite the usf1 fiasco

[@PedroFTeixeira]

The "advantage" of that tight packaging is that Merc can only use bodywork to have different sidepods to manipulate airflow.

[@cenncruach7040]

Kind of. Cooling could become an issue, if the airflow is not exactly as designed right now, so I’m not 100% with you, but I think they have more freedom in changing their design than some others

[@khawajabasit977]

Yeah but I don't think its working. Saw some pictures from Day 2 of testing when Russel stopped on track with flowvis on the car. Now I'm no aerodynamicist but even I could see that Mercs concept isn't working the flow separation was horrendous.

[@The_Curious_Cat]

@@khawajabasit977 Yep, noticed that too. The paint wasn't flowing nicely in channels, but dying at some weird places and even splattering in others, which means flow separation. I mean I'm sure they can see this, I think they got too wrapped up again in simulations and numbers and forgot the real world is a lot more chaotic. Air is not neatly flowing through a tunnel, especially while following another car.

[@TheAidanLeee]

They just need to take the Redbull sidepod approach. LH mentioned that their was a lot of merc in the aston which is also known as the 3rd Redbull on the podium. Its proof that the design works and can work well with Mercedes components. I fear they aren't too keen on admitting failure when they've doubled down on the design.

[@Samuel-bu7xr]

@@TheAidanLeee good points, but the AMR car actually has less in common with the RB, especially in sidepod aero, than, say, the McLaren among others. It's clear AMR have advanced the core concept RB introduced last year into a distinct evolution.

[@OumuamuaOumuamua]

It’s like history in reverse, redbull nailed the new regs, while mercedes struggled with them, does this remind anybody of a certain year(2014)

[@Gl-my8fw]

rb was never this pathetic tbh

[@sobversion3]

​@@Gl-my8fw yes they have lol, 2015 Mercedes 703pts in 1st place (obv) and Red bull 2 years removed from winning WDC and Constructors finished 4th with 187pts (literally a pile of shit in comparison to the top)

[@titancheat]

​@sobversion3 fr. Sebs power unit never started the season and ferrari vacuum cleaner nose. Oh how people forget

[@soundscape26]

@@Gl-my8fw Red Bull didn't win a single race in 2015 and was P4 in the final standings.

[@soundscape26]

@@titancheat Exactly, Seb had terrible reliability in 2014... much like Danny Ric had in 2018. People have short memories indeed.

[@chicobicalho5621]

I am really disappointed Mercedes, McLaren and Ferrari do not show any promise for this year. This is a shame because there are six excelent drivers out there who, if provided with competitive cars, could help make this championship a thrilling one. But I am rather fearful 2023 will be yet another walk in the park for Verstappen and Red Bull, in fact, more of a walk in the park than it was last year, for it seems the beginning of their season is much more solid than a year ago. Will MV win 18 races this season? I hate to say it would not surprise me at all at this point. After following this sport for 57 years, I have learned not to root for a driver in particular, but for great racing instead, but it does not seem it will happen, again, this year.

[@alexscott7274]

Itll he intertesing if red bull keep in the cost cap this year or overspend for the 3rd year running.

[@TheLPN05Fan]

My lord. 57 years a fan, from the Bathubs and the fearless greats all the way to humongous trackbuses. That's, that's flabbergasting for someone as me who this years gets to 20. I totally agree with your point of not backing a certain driver but a concept. It's only fun if it's unpredictable (to a certain extent) and competitive, innit. o7

[@robertdavidsanders]

I like your upgraded graphics package for this season. Well done.

[@Hammertime4404]

I think a lot of the issues stem from high up technical people from the dominant era leaving the team. Aldo Costa, Andy Cowell and now James Allison have left or moved roles, as much as the team promotes seamless staff transition it must have an impact.

[@TheLPN05Fan]

Not to mention the all important Kyle Hill!

[@truenoae8689]

This is absolutely it

[@alexcheetah79]

They're not bouncing back, they're just not bouncing at all.

[@GloomGaiGar]

isn't that what they wanted?

[@Chris-ln4uw]

@@GloomGaiGar careful what you wish for

[@marion817]

My theory is that Merc's win in Brazil last year cursed them into stubbornly sticking to their concept, thinking it was a sign they were in the right direction. But it was clearly a one-off and the concept itself was truly flawed.

[@wiegraf9009]

I don't think so because Toto and pretty much everyone were shit talking the W13 after the season ended. They probably tried out other concepts without getting anywhere.

[@theGoogol]

My theory is that Toto's ego got in the way. The team actually started to believe that they don't make mistakes. Horner said to change the f'ing car _so_ naturally, Toto didn't.

[@swl0323]

Hamilton: My team never make mistake

[@danbradley7176]

I was very glad to see Albon in the points and Sargent very close. I get the feeling the balance of power on the grid is shifting, except for the top step.

[@PlaySA]

Note that the Williams is still unfortunately the slowest car on the grid in terms of pure performance (in this race). They got lucky with Charles, Ocon, Piastri DNFing, Norris having serious reliability problems, etc. They also nailed the strategy, to be fair.

[@KoRnBulleT]

​@@PlaySAAlbon was already in front of Piastri, Ocon when they dnf'd. He was also in front of Norris when his shit box got issues. Don't try to take the hard work away from Williams. The only dnf that Albon and Williams benefitted from was Leclerc.

[@georgemesser3262]

@@PlaySA think about how much performance they’ve gained since 2019 though they are no longer a distant last and have a car on similar terms with the McLaren and alpha tauri that is a lot less sensitive

[@thetruebatman4632]

It is pretty funny that at the end of DTS season 5 Toto says “We are gonna put that car in the middle of our office so we can see it every day as a reminder not to build that car.” Shows up to Merc reveal: black version of essentially the same car lol.

[@DanishAZ-mp7tm]

Good, so now they'll have two cars to put in the middle of their office as a reminder

[@The_ZeroLine]

What is DTS?

[@GloomGaiGar]

@@The_ZeroLine Drive To Survive. An F1 "documentary" on Netlfix

[@darshang1262]

@@The_ZeroLine drive to survive

[@thetruebatman4632]

@@DanishAZ-mp7tm honestly as nice as it was to see Merc struggle i’m over it now. I don’t think even the most hardcore RB fans want to see Max win races by 30+ seconds.

[@DravenX37]

When will they admit that the no side pod design sucks?

[@_Ruach_]

They already did

[@QwoaX]

It's not a no side pod design but a "vertical" one rather than a normal horizontal one. Maybe it's not even the sidepod but they got something entirely different wrong. We have a sample size of one team using this design after all.

[@sobversion3]

Cause its not the side pods; its under the car

[@NeXMaX]

It's not *just* the sidepods. Changing the sidepods alone won't make the car a lot faster. It's how the sidepods work in unison with the rest of the aero package (the underfloor, the rear suspension, wings, etc.) If the concept is wrong, they would have to take a total relook at how all the various surfaces affect the aerodynamics rather than just laser-focus on one bit of it.

[@derbyjr]

@@sobversion3 it’s also the side pods. If you look at what everyone else is doing, the side pods are crafted in a way that funnels air to the Coke bottle area. This is why Mercedes has a lack of rear grip. No air to the coke bottle means the airflow coming from under the car to the defuser is not being maximized

[@thechannelimashamedof2361]

L shaped sidepods like the MP4-26 would be interesting to see in the current reg-set.

[@FormulaTurismo]

Well remembered

[@titancheat]

Toto last year " no one panic we can solve this" Toto this year " everyone panic we need radical changes"

[@EntropicExergy]

The panic was there from the Bahrein testing last year, they just tried to hide it. As we all know, panic is the worst advisor when having to make decisions.

[@thedarkknight1758]

In captain Jack sparrow voice " Nobody move, i lost me brain 🧠" 😂

[@acomingextinction]

"We've got a different bodywork coming. It won't be the same as other people's and it won't be the same as what we've got." Hats off to Mercedes technical director Mike Elliott, because even by F1 standards that is *beautiful* obfuscation.

[@andis9076]

saying a lot of things but actually saying nothing.

[@PlaySA]

@@andis9076 well it says exactly two things: there is bodywork coming, and it is different

[@red70s69]

Toto is hard headed not listening to horner change the car aero. His helping him now to be competitive keep up the trend to be fast 😜🏁

[@petersymonds1920]

They don't have a power advantage anymore, which is the bigger problem.

[@EntropicExergy]

Exactly, in fact, Honda has passed them with the increased ethanol content, possibly ferrari too if they ever manage to fix their reliability issues.

[@darshang1262]

Merc engine is Aston Martin was very good

[@matchu9995]

@@darshang1262 True. But that just proves that Aston's aero (basically a copy of RB), works really well. This year's Merc engine is not bad, but does not have the advantage the predecessor had. In the last regulations Mercedes could get away from poor aero due to their overpowered engines. I honestly believe Ferrari and RB had way better aero than them all throughout.

[@darshang1262]

@@matchu9995 you are right but one thing is with the engines as powerful they were Williams couldn't do any thing and were struck last that's baffling

[@matchu9995]

@@darshang1262 Maybe Mercedes, McLaren, and Williams should copy Aston and eat their pride in admitting they got the regulations wrong. But then again, it helps that Aston got really good engineers over the winter from the top teams.

[@ragerancher]

I think it's a shame the tiny sidepods didn't work as I love seeing teams try something completely whacky and pulling it off. However, as some point you just need to accept reality.

[@DanishAZ-mp7tm]

The fact that some teams have tried the zero sidepods and knew it wouldn't work out in reality should've been a wakeup call for Mercedes but noooo, lets put 100 percent of our trust in the wind tunnel

[@ragerancher]

@@DanishAZ-mp7tm F1 is full of teams that do something that nobody else pulls off so it's not completely unreasonable to stick to an idea that nobody else is doing. It just seems this was not one of those times.

[@andreabrembilla6466]

​@L W Williams did and, if i recall correctly, some other team mentioned the fact that they considered the concept but moved away from it in the end.

[@ishqiahmed4315]

@@DanishAZ-mp7tm i mean you forget they were still the 3rd fastest car, so clearly with that concept they did something the other teams couldnt, unfortunately they couldnt fully optimise it

[@illuminaughty2929]

LOL. I love the Oracle side pods on the Merc. They should copy the AMR side pods since they have the same power unit dimensions, and call it the Black Aston Martin.

[@09csr]

Technically, the AM is a green RB, so the Merc would be a black RB. ;)

[@marnixsiekmans8259]

Red Bull made a lot of money selling other teams their unused sidepods.

[@plazasta]

if B-Sport/Kyle Engineers' analyses (can't remember which one of them said this) are to be trusted (and I interpreted their words right), then the issue with those super narrow side pods has nothing to do with porpoising, it's an entirely different thing: one of the roles a sidepod has to do is produce outwash to push the front tyre wake away from the rear end of the car, since dirty air ruins the effectiveness of aero devices. While a super narrow side pod concept like the one Merc are running sounds like a great idea for reducing drag, the downside is that those sidepods probably do not produce enough outwash to keep the front tyre wake away from the rear aero of the car, leading to that area's effectiveness being affected, leading to less rear downforce (as you said they are dealing with)

[@EntropicExergy]

Not only that, sidepods also allow you to pull airflow away from the rear wheels, which also helps in reducing drag. But it should have been obvious, when even Haas decided against the idea in early design phases. Merc said they had an areonautical company help them with the car design and it shows. There is barely drag 10 Km up in the atmosphere, compared to sea-level. Too bad for them most races are close or at sea-level.

[@valconir1619]

MErc will get better but so are the other top 5 teams. Glad to see Williams right in the middle of the pack, hopefully they keep up their development too.

[@PlaySA]

They're at the bottom of the pack in pure performance unfortunately. They only scored points due to DNFs and other reliability issues. Maybe that car will be better at another circuit though.

[@valconir1619]

@@PlaySA Even if they arent scoring points last weekend, they are still above Haas and pretty equal with AT and AR in race pace. And with the most wind tunnel time, I hope they can cement their place back up in the midfield

[@anavalerra]

​@@valconir1619 what's AR?

[@thedarkknight1758]

That Williams will create terror in Baku, Spa etc tracks .

[@valconir1619]

@@anavalerra Alfa Romeo

[@christianorsa]

For the sake of Aston Martin & Alonso, please don't improve or change anything Mercedes🙏😂

[@WjC00LEY]

Obviously RB is far away, but let’s see how the development race plays out.

[@BlackRose-vi2yg]

100%. I like these videos but it's all clickbait at this stage

[@wiegraf9009]

They'll probably lose some advantage due to all the penalties over the season, so maybe 2024 will see a competitive season. Depends on how Ferrari does without Binotto engineering their car.

[@thedarkknight1758]

RB gor newey who works with a piece of paper and pencil.

[@Philamon96]

I think a mix of some of their technical personel leaving (To AM) and that in the new cost cap/budget era of F1 they cant just throw 100's of millions at something anymore. Maybe one day they'll be back to the top but this year is definetely a write off when it comes to winning both champs.

[@GarageGuerilla]

The budget cap era exposed Mercedes, because this time they are not able to throw $400M to beat their competitor like they did in 2017-18

[@thedarkknight1758]

In entire comment section you just presented the exact reason for their downfall. Other teams knows how to work with limited resources and being efficient. Mercedes build parts and concepts every race. How can we forget the bringing new engines pretty much every race.

[@scuferia7373]

The double victory in Brazil in 2022 was not good for Mercedes. As a result, they have stuck to the current concept. Nevertheless, I believe that the team can become No. 2 this season. Greetings from a Ferrari fan

[@lukeearthcrawler896]

Not really. Brazil 2022 took place in November 13. I'm pretty sure they started working on the 2023 car well before that. By Brazil, they were locked into the same concept. I'm guessing tey stuck with the concept giving their mid season performance when they scored a lot of podium finishes and got ahead of Ferrari.

[@EntropicExergy]

Only if AM mess it up big time, i see them becoming second behind RB.

[@Umuliuz]

The amount of trouble Ferrari need to create for themselves for that to happen can be entertaining.

[@thedarkknight1758]

Fearri will fight with Aston for second. Mercedes won't beat ferrari this year.

[@khawajabasit977]

I merc a's situation now is synonymous with RB's in 2015 where it went from dominating to 5th fastest in two years. Apart from 2019 and 2020 Merc have never hit the ground running but having a power advantage and throwing money at problems made them successful. They've lost both those advantages and I don't expect Merc to be fully up there at least until the end of these current regs kinda like RB where FIA gets tired of one team winning and then engineers the regs to better suit the other competitors.

[@stevenmoran4060]

Red Bull only suffered from 2015 on because nobody would supply a decent engine to them hence, the collaboration with Honda. Yes the same engine builders Alonso said we’re incapable of building a good engine. Red Bull never had a poor car, just a car with much lower horsepower. Mercedes have a poor car and their engine isn’t near being the best either no matter how well Aston Martin performed as Alonso still ended up 38 seconds behind Perez who was 12 seconds behind Max! Alonso was made to look good by the basically poor remainder of the entrants!

[@metisa0034]

​@@stevenmoran4060 Finally someone said the true thing. Redbull had a good car since 2014, but that Renault v6 was total shit compared to the amg.

[@EntropicExergy]

@@stevenmoran4060 If only the pussies at merc supplied RB with an engine, then we'd have a real competition from 2014 to 2020 (or maybe a RB domination, but we'll never know because we were denied the opportunity), instead of the snoozefest it was. This drop back to the midfield is simply Karma punishing them for denying us.

[@khawajabasit977]

@@stevenmoran4060 Rb was actually quite shit in 2015. They got their concept didn't work out as well as they thought plus the slow engine from Renault meant they were quite far back. In fact for the first few rounds even STR were faster than them. They had to revise their concept in 2016 which put them back on their winning ways.

[@Hammertime4404]

What are you talking about? Merc have a track record of hitting the ground running. 2014 winning the first 6 races, 2015 winning 8 of the first 9, 2016 winning 14 out of the first 15 races, I can continue 😂 also if it was just engine advantage all this time why did Lewis win every wet weather race from 2014-18? Surely the wet negates much of the engine advantage? The more downforce you have the more heat you generate in the tyres and the quicker you go, no? Don’t try to detract from the excellence merc have showed in the past, it’s the same excellence red bull are showing now

[@p-money33]

Have to say there's a slight arrogance by Toto that has finally affected the team. More interested to play to the media rather than analysing within. The signs were there last year with the porpoising, but they wanted a rule change rather than change the car. Now the truth has hit home, their concept is 1s a lap away from where it needs to be

[@NovaDaGoat]

Think his biggest mistake is allowing Aldo Costa to leave in 2019

[@darshang1262]

Another technical regulations change incoming

[@thedarkknight1758]

Who would forget that toto whining dragged their own car back along with ferrari which used to challenge redbull. They they become even more faster. Toto is got at throwing spanner at work 🤣

[@09csr]

It's still too soon to tell, but the way I see it, this means that the budget caps and aero restrictions are working.

[@maxr6886]

Agreed. Merc may need to hire some new ‘caterers’ to fix this problem

[@regachom1]

Would not be surprised if Mercedes takes some ideas off the Aston. Toto sounds willing to swallow his pride to get back into fighting in front. It'll be an interesting 2nd half of the season if they can pull something off in Imola.

[@JWHarris........]

Definitely. Merc will defo copy the Aston. Surely with the same gearbox n rear suspension, it would be feasible?

[@regachom1]

@@JWHarris........ would agree, just some tweaks to the cooling package as well. Hopefully they figure it out sooner than later

[@EntropicExergy]

So they'll be fighting AM and ferrari then, still plenty behind RB if they do.

[@regachom1]

@@EntropicExergy Better to be fighting with Ferrari, than with AM. Sure could still be behind RB but it'd be a lot closer than this past weekend's showing. Merc has the engine, they are faster in the straights per the speed traps, but where they lose time is in the twisty bits which is where car balance and stability is critical.

[@EntropicExergy]

@@regachom1 Not if you are fighting behind RB, i bet Toto would much rather fight RB then AM and ferrari. Merc had the engine, since the new regs increased ethanol content they are definitely behind Honda and possibly ferrari too. Fastest in the straights is still RB and ferrari too, though considering their reliability issues that may be RB themselves once more.

[@CYMotorsport]

I mean… we should probs wait until we see the cars at a track with different characteristics, no?

[@ViN-kr3ri]

It almost seems like stubbornness in that they went for the zero sidepod concept again in 23 to try and demonstrate this wasn't the cause of any of their problems in 22. It clearly was. There will be much larger sidepods before long, certainly by Imola

[@mattstevenson5849]

They are data driven engineers. They aren't sticking with the design out of stubbornness or arrogance. The CFD will be giving different data to real running conditions. Red Bull has Newey, who is probably the most competent aerodynamics expert in the pit lane - and as such has the experience and skill to design without an overeliance on simulations.

[@rob_dos]

Please make a note or warning about flashing lights in the future. The lights around 4:25 caused some problems at home here. Thank you.

[@naufalpahlevi8976]

Horner was right, Change your frickin car.. Imagine how good Merc would be if Toto listened to Horner last year

[@NovaDaGoat]

Or didn’t let go of Aldo Costa in 2019 then I think 2021 Lewis would’ve walked the championship if they kept him plus Mercedes wouldn’t be struggling

[@mrj3217]

2014 to 2021 car was build with unlimited money 2022 this current = a normal budget. Now we see how bad they really are.

[@compilationtv509]

The Mercedes needs to be low to ground for the floor to work properly like last year, but the regulation they helped introduced increased the height of the floor edges, didn't they created their own problem?

[@Idk56373]

Ye I thought of that too seems like they wanted a rule change so they could “figure out” something in the meantime.

[@nathanmadox3364]

I think there are two issues that led to this. First back in 2022 Merc was too analytical and data hungry to notice the real world implications of their design. I feel like Red Bull with Newey had an advantage not only with his experience in ground effects, but also his ability to estimate how a concept would be applied. Secondly this year, Merx showed their inability to pivot and how their years of dominance limited their ability to be agile. They have never had to 180 since they started winning, so their approach to "Head down and push through" worked when they had a huge advantage, but now they are just trying to push through a brick wall.

[@rahhar3785]

even if they wanted to, it would have been/ would be v hard to make dramatic change of direction. Cost cap restricts what they can do.

[@rgrost1]

You are missing the point! Mercedes is the winner because they have the most diverse workforce in F1. What happens on the track is not fair or Equitable...

[@maxr6886]

Edgy joke 👍🏻

[@Drrolfski]

Brazil 2022 deluded them and now they're in a situation where it might take years to catch up with the ever-improving Red Bull. If you got it wrong in the cost cap era, then you're basically screwed. Extra wind tunnel/CFD time compared to Red Bull can only get you so far when you're on a budget.

[@thedarkknight1758]

Imagine redbull get a zero side pod next year and beat the sh*t again 😂. Toto will leave F1

[@frankchong5585]

I said this earlier. Early of the year, George and Toto has been bullish and warn competitors that they are stronger now and that is when I know they are doomed. If you do notice, whenever a team bullish about their performance, they will fall badly and this just proved it again.

[@SawDawify]

I feel like zero side pods show far more promise in theory and simulation, but it just cant be replicated outside of the lab. Like quantum mehanics and faster than light travel, all work mathmatically, but figuring out how to make it actually happen outside of an incredibly controlled experiment is near impossible.

[@maGnetar333]

Mercedes has only 2 problems : Toto & No.44. Stop making it about the car. Give George the support he deserves and get a young driver alongside to build a new team.

[@AZBCDE]

My team don’t make mistakes 😂😂😂😂😂

[@AZBCDE]

@L W Yes a leader in being a CRYBABY, the dude is a fraudulent driver

[@thedarkknight1758]

Every quote of Mercedes camp boomerang and backfiring on them

[@into_the_void]

8:53 the mechanic on the left is sus...

[@rizzledizzle]

I don't know why we are still talking about this. Teams fall off the pace all the time. RedBull, Ferrari, Williams, McLaren, why should we care extra just cause it's Mercedes?

[@Randomvideos-zi7pe]

because mercedes brings the most revenue, by attracting people like you to them

[@rizzledizzle]

@@Randomvideos-zi7pe what on earth do you mean people like me? I'm merely advocating for the natural progression of the sport, the ebb and flow of teams succeeding and failing

[@Randomvideos-zi7pe]

@@rizzledizzle you are advocating yet commenting on a video that is mercedes related, that further proves the point. If the video isn's about said team, you wouldn't even bother to comment. You don't know how SM marketing works for businesses

[@rizzledizzle]

@user-uh8xw7pr8n I would comment even if it was about Red Bull or Ferrari, or anyone for that matter

[@teknikairaoulolgandessabek4102]

Mike Elliott, Andrew Shovlin and the rest of the team need to swallow their pride and begin a new recruitment drive. Aerodynamicists needed URGENTLY!!!

[@EntropicExergy]

They can only get fresh graduates, don't think they can get far with them. All the good experienced ones are at other teams, mainly RB.

[@tariqphoto]

@@EntropicExergy recruit from outside of the sport maybe? other experienced Aerodynamicists in different fields?

[@aimankamil4818]

@@tariqphoto what other sport that is as aerodynamically aggressive as f1? Merc just have too much diversity quota and not hiring people based on their skill

[@EntropicExergy]

@@tariqphoto That would take time for those outsiders to get used to the demands of F1. Merc does not have that time if they went a number 8 for Hamilton, time is not on his side.

[@thedarkknight1758]

​@@tariqphoto Audi on a roll to get them too.

[@vaughnsigal4560]

In all honesty, I think Mercedes’ ability to develop a car throughout the season will get them running at the pointy end again before long. The fact that last year they had to spend so much time and energy just trying to stop the porpoising, this year they can focus on perfecting the concept they’ve got, despite the underwhelming start to the season.

[@The_Curious_Cat]

I think it's time for Mercedes to explore something similar to RB. I mean just see how Aston Martin did it and they went from 7th quickest to 3rd. Granted that they have one of RB ex-employees doing it, so no wonder it's working, since Fallows knows how the concept fully works, which is what makes Mercedes be on the back foot. But what do they have to lose? They are losing speed on the quick corners and are draggy in the straights, all while having poor downforce according to what the drivers said. And now thinking about it aerodynamically, either the underfloor is less refined, which would be surprising since now they can literally see pictures of RB underfloor and understand the "boat steps" concept, all made to create less drag on that part. But seeing how they have 5 vortice generators on that big wing, which is in itself a massive vortice generator, which creates drag. Also the skinny sides leave the floor exposed, which makes it more prone to be affected by dirty air, wind changes and everything that affects the airflow. They are trying to guide the air to places with vortices, while the RB concept does it with the sidepod itself.

[@PlaySA]

That sidepod design is crap. Couldn't believe when they came out with the new car and it was basically the same concept.

[@leniwolf]

Merc looked legit strong the last couple races of last season, so it's surprising they took a step back compared to a team like Aston and especially Ferrari.

[@EntropicExergy]

That's because the others stopped bringing upgrades and focused on this season, merc just kept upgrading. Guess what the smart teams did?

[@GloomGaiGar]

@L W But they already understood very early in the season, correct? It was their ride height and suspension. Two things that cannot be reliably tested in a computer.

[@darshang1262]

Merc looked strong in Hungary,Singapore low power circuits and in Brazil redbull got ride height wrong so mercs won

[@EntropicExergy]

@L W To bring upgrades you need understanding of the car. If you don't those upgrades don't work or are even counterproductive. They knew full well that to mitigate the bouncing they had to raise the ride height, or use active aero, but the FIA wouldn't go with that for cost reasons. It's a lot cheaper to raise the ride height and the FIA wants to make the sport cheaper to participate in, the entire reason for the budget cap.

[@ishqiahmed4315]

@@GloomGaiGar no but its not a simple fix of just the ride height and suspension, you have to bring upgrades in order to fix those problems

[@ootoriazumi1349]

wondering if keeping the vertical sidepod inlet but squeezing slightly up and out on the bodywork to give more undercut and more outwash might work the floor better?

[@Mr_Zoomy]

love how merc is trying to be too clever and it's backfiring so much

[@EntropicExergy]

You love to see it.

[@Mr_Zoomy]

@@EntropicExergy after being a Leclerc/Ferrari fan for a while it gives me at least a smirk

[@EntropicExergy]

@@Mr_Zoomy Oh, as a Max fan, it makes me roll off my seat from laughing every race weekend. The amount of shit he and RB got from merc and its lowlife fans in 2021 and beyond makes it such good karma. Good luck with Charles, he's a strong contender, but ferrari just doesn't seem to be up to the task. Maybe if Vasseur gets enough time, they can get competitive with RB again, so here's hoping Fred doesn't get sacked anytime soon by management. At least ferrari know what sportsmanship is so i'd rather see them face RB than merc, that team is lowest of the lowest, no class contrary to RB and ferrari.

[@maxr6886]

Merc has lowlife fans? Probably need to go back and look at the stories from the Austrian GP last year mate

[@EntropicExergy]

@@maxr6886 Don't see why. Merc fans like to send death threats to Latifi, Masi and Max' family. That is the lowest you can possibly go.

[@FabianDialer-vw1zk]

Still curious to what happened at Leclercs Car in the race.

[@theboystone]

electronic problem not the actual engine

[@Idk56373]

@@theboystone infact the same component they changed just in case before the gp. And they can only use 2 in the entire season before penalty (from my understanding)

[@alexandrucondac9778]

hope Aston can keep up the good work, maybe have a win this season.

[@Hazemann]

Aston Martin will win over RedBull

[@Villajesse]

“Find the weakness, Fix it and out develop RB”. Not an easy task

[@TMJ32]

Will be tiring listening to Lewis claim his back hurts again all season

[@xRedxxWolfx]

It's been talked about how the front wing, sidepods, and rear wing all work together with the new specs. Surely Mercedes didn't JUST change their sidepods in testing and say "nope, no change there" without also thinking about the other aero aspects.

[@rosamacedo1831]

My team don't make mistake(Hamilton 2022)

[@oNEWorld8]

Would it be possible for Mercedes inside the costcap to: a) start the development of the current W14 very early in 2022, with little resources, making it sort of an W13b. Because that’s what it looks to me. Especially the sidepods don’t look very refined compared to last year, or are they? b) then start the development of the proper W14 when they have a better understanding of what to do and also take their time and release it later in the year on purpose. c) so: W14/13b used a chunk of the in year development budget of W13, and only a part of W14 development budget. The proper W14 used the other part of this budget and also a big chunk of in year development Budget of 2023. For W15 they will revert to the usual timelines und budgets. d) All what the team communicates to the outside is designed to hide this plan. To me, this looks a lot like a thing Toto Wolf would do - to turn their weakness into a thrength and to outsmart everybody in secrecy. I think he still seeks for revenge and wants to show who is king of the sport. But I don’t know if this would be possible within the budget cap.

[@alexscott7274]

Well the punishment for overspending means absolutely nothing so maby they dont need try keep inbetween the lines

[@crispy_338]

Now Merc finally know what everyone else has been feeling the last 8 years 😂 I would be lying if I said I felt bad for them

[@barneyklingenberg4078]

The irony is Wolf was whining so hard about porpoising that the FIA made an decission seens as the raised floor. However the W13 at the end of season worked really well when running really really low. So by raising that design they have an higher reduction in performance.

[@dustermcclean2517]

Like you said, Merc had dominated from 2014-21. So, i hope that they remain slow!

[@karthikpenumetch9300]

Talking like it’s their fault they dominated 🗿

[@EntropicExergy]

@@karthikpenumetch9300 Since they bought the FIA and cheated, it very much is. This is Karma punishing them for their vile actions.

[@dustermcclean2517]

@@karthikpenumetch9300 No, it was the fault by FIA to protect them in the name of the political correctness. Mercedes got away with some shady business and was not punished. While Redbull has got BIG punches in their budget and the car development for a minor miscalculation. However, Merc enjoyed the years of dominate and that's now over. Meanwhile the other teams have made a huge progress. Look at Aston Martin, they're heading to an excellent season. Which is a really good thing for the sport.

[@mango2538]

They just need to drop the zeropod design. It just isn’t working. The Red Bull/Aston Martin avenue is obviously best currently.

[@garyrodrigues7433]

The design needs a major overhaul. If they manage to get this car closer to Red Bull on the track, it will be an incredible feat.

[@GloomGaiGar]

By the time they get closer to RB, RB has already diverted all resources to 2024. They are well and truly screwed.

[@chomalen]

In the DRS era, the deficit needs to be within 0.4-0.5s to have reasonable competition. That is all. It forces the leading team to have to push on tyres and risk deterioration to outrun the 1s DRS zone. Mercedes (or Ferrari, AM) only realistically need to find 2 or 3 tenths. Otherwise, the competition between Mercedes, Ferrari and AM is all we have to look forward to in the race. Charles will keep it interesting in Quali no doubt. Now only if the team don't make basic mistakes. Alonso and Hamilton will keep it interesting in the race. One can hope for those 2-3 tenths. The availability of DRS on lap 1 and having a 1.5s detection zone for tracks with lap times greater than 1m 30s, would also be another idea.

[@rubenduran86]

They need to implement an aggressive side pod design with a big undercut where it meets the floor. That would allow for a double floor type of concept where not just the floor creates downforce but also downforce is created between the floor and the side pods similar to RB concept that’s why the floor edges are so complex on the RB because they are creating vortex to seal the floor and vortex to seal the area between the floor and the side pods.

[@karthikpenumetch9300]

Damn u seem to know ur stuff

[@robertklein4111]

Just like mclaren

[@samudrasyarif6828]

Please create the 2022 Version of Mercedes versus 2023 Mercedes Versions

[@hanstubben]

Do not feel sympathy for the team that dominated for eight years! I kind of like it that their on the other side right now.

[@jiatheng2829]

what do you mean its slow? there are still 6 teams car slower than them tho. Still consider faster than 6 other teams, right?

[@SmokefromtheJay]

Now Merc need space for 2 cars in the lobby 😂

[@peteharper3299]

Since the start of last year I've been wondering if Merc were the only ones who really went in the direction of the 'spirit' of the rules, ie generating most downforce from the ground effect and therefore ignoring the over-the-body downforce surfaces. Well, if that's what the big sidepods and all that on the RB and Ferrari et al is doing anyways.

[@SamyT1994]

They don't have the luxury of going on a spending spree to try and find the best concept quickly. The cost cap is really holding them down.

[@cp4512]

I think there’s also a culture problem with Mercedes. They seem to have lost their ‘Silver Arrows’ team spirit and heritage since they changed their car colour.

[@waynepetrevan]

I think the new bright green lines are the problem :)

[@bmcgcreative]

Seems to me the real question is how can verstappen be 50 seconds ahead of the field when all the others were within tenths of each other?

[@Mr_DylanSinan]

He was 50 seconds ahead of merc. He was like 11 ahead of Perez, and like 37 ahead of Alonso

[@rodolphendessabeka8721]

Redbull developed a lighter monocoque last year that was introduced this year. A lighter car with last year's efficiency equals a faster car.

[@Michael.Koulibaly]

Am I wrong to say I don't believe the situation is as terrible as it seems? The only area the car seemed to lack was the medium/high speed corners. If the major update they have improves this, then surely they'll be very competitive. The slow speed performance of the merc was seemingly better than Red Bull at Bahrain when they compared HAM to VER. Just wanna spark some conversation. Correct me if I'm wrong 👍🏾

[@chrisccc22]

I think Lewis should just fake another back ache so the governing body will change the rules again. That way Merc will eventually get their car on par with the field.

[@thvyansh]

Keep crying

[@chrisccc22]

@@thvyansh Trust me. There are no tears. Well, tears of joy really. I loved watching Alonso lay the moves on him.

[@victormurga1518]

Everyone is surprised why Merc isn't the best team anymore. People forget their Engine Tech going into the V6 turbo era gave them most of the championships

[@nagasako7]

RB and AM have pouched some of engineers. Honda worked with RB. And simply some retired. Nothing lasts forever. I hope UK fans didn't think Lewis was something special lol

[@gregbrown6379]

Next Toto will be yelling about needing a rule change again.

[@fiercedevil6955]

Only positive I see is tha the car is much more stable now as Mercedes doesn't need to worry about porpoising anymore, and can now focus on performance.

[@ChristopherBuenviaje]

I think what teams like Redbull and AM has solved is aerodynamic efficiency, its not just 1 part of the car being a silver bullet but the entire aspect working and complimenting each other. Merc on the other hand having a massive engine advantage made the engine the focal point of their Philosophy same with Ferrari coming back from losing so much power with their oil burning fiasco.

[@thedarkknight1758]

Ferrari engine used to sip oil. Now it's sipping every other internal part .

[@JustinAH]

In 1952 when the F-102 Delta Dagger wasn't hitting it's performance numbers Convair engineers discovered the 'Area Rule' detailing the aircraft's lack of speed caused by aerodynamic drag. Doesn't this sound familiar? Guess nobody at Mercedes has ever heard of the 'Area Rule', put on some sidepods Toto before Lewis wastes 2 full years of his career on a flawed areo concept

[@random-person1]

first race of the season with another 22 races to go. it may have taken mercedes most of last year to fix the MANY problems but that was last year. now this year, whilst its true that they are slightly on the back foot, they still both finished in the top 10, something we werent sure they could do last year. what should be concerning them more is the fact Aston Martin have (in Toto Wolffs own words), they have half of a Mercedes in their car, mostly at the back! they also have a major (B) plan in the form of a new aero package should the one they have now prove too costly.....

[@EntropicExergy]

Actually they didn't fix anything, they went crying to the FIA and they forced teams who were hit with porpoising to increase ride height, something merc could have easily don themselves, but they insisted dicking over RB, which turned out to only hit ferrari and themselves. That is one problem mitigated, not necessarily fixed. Merc can't fix anything if they can't throw endless amounts of money at it. RB, they know how to fix things, but not merc.

[@PlaySA]

Those deep inner sidepod grooves are gonna be all over the grid next season, mark my words.

[@PlaySA]

@@EntropicExergy That's a very drama queen interpretation of what happened.

[@EntropicExergy]

@@PlaySA Not really, it is a rather factual statement of what happened last season.

[@Ivory_GT]

What is Mercedes not doing that Red Bull is that is creating such a down force deficit? Problems with the floor? Not channelling the air properly through the coke bottle?

[@ediltonspencer6974]

Time for Lawrence Stroll to payback the favor and hand Toto some AMR23 drawings! We need it!

[@Jupitersonlyson]

😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 ya for Last years Aston

[@soundscape26]

The AMR23 is lifted directly from the Red Bull so Toto can cut the middleman and go directly to the source.

[@EntropicExergy]

Stroll is more clever than doing that. If you picked up the signs, he's slowly cutting ties with merc.

[@Lanse1984]

​@@EntropicExergy likely AM runs a Honda engine in 2026

[@EntropicExergy]

@@Lanse1984 I doubt it, Stroll expressed interest in building their own engine, not being dependent on a supplier.

[@ierbutza21]

Can they? Budget cap + limited aero testing are several things that makes me wonder if they do bring a "regular" car soon would it be their car or would it be the Aston car and they just built it without knowing all the data on it?

[@andis9076]

Adrian Newey proof once again he is the MASTER of Aerodynamic !

[@GloomGaiGar]

Aston's new aero guy was his student too. Man is a living legend.

[@brian-te4xs]

Please change your headline : The Mercedes car is Perfect for 2023 !!! For those that do not like Mercedes or Hamilton.

[@leonmichealgates7669]

Merc needs to bring James Allison back from Ineos! Mike Elliott is definitely in above his head.

[@kushagraN]

I don't really understand what issue does the zero side pod cause. Shouldn't it be have less drag, if thermals can be managed which isn't a problem for merc?

[@TheBadRaven]

Other side pod designs seem to more effectively route air to the rear wing(s), and that is downforce, and that is less sliding so tyre saving as well as better cornering grip??

[@n8pls543]

A few possibilities. One is that looking smaller doesn't necessarily mean it's lower drag, because aero is more complicated than that. Another possibility I can think of is that with all the little winglets that have been banned since 2022, you gain more from having your sidepods be like wings, so you can more effectively move the air where you want it to be going.

[@Jupitersonlyson]

It's so magical to see Mercedes still suffering 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@mineralwater6736]

child

[@chrism81804]

Oh i remember Toto and Lewis answers when they had asked them if the rules should be less strict to other teams so they could compete with Mercedes. Their answer was “no. They just need to do better”. Now theyre crying every race

[@veckgames]

I feel like Mercedes is being stubborn and arrogant with not copying Red Bull's concept and trying to stick with their own original concept come hell or high water. Still a bit early to tell because different track configurations could be kinder on the Merc but it's definitely a worrying start.