MESBG Tier List: Army Bonuses.

In this episode of 'Which one of the boys gets delusional first' we dive head long into the army bonuses.
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[@karlzuhlke3114]

As a Shire player gonna say putting the Shire Army bonus into B Tier is pretty generous. Its purely terrain based (so hope for lots of trees) and you rarely get much use out of it esp since even with Woodland Creature your barely faster than Humans. Belongs into the hole right next to Rivendell. Woodland creature should be a racial trait for Rangers/Hobbits.

[@NoobsandMen]

Yeah fair, but it would suck if they didn't have it at all, it's a nice bonus for such a slow moving army which is why I reckon b tier -Liam

[@tedarnoldmoore]

I yell out dwarf poison when rerolling khazad-dum wounds

[@NoobsandMen]

Now this is a smart man. -Sean

[@ryangale3757]

Personal opinion: Lothlorien and Rivendell should have their army bonuses switched. Lothlorien is much more the shooting themed army (since that's what we associate with them as far as the films), so giving them a shooting buff makes sense thematically, and the Rivendell elves lorewise are the Noldorian ones and so have bit more of a 'elder' and magical vibe to them (and Elrond is just as powerful a sorcerer as Galadriel I feel like), so just feels a little more thematic for them to have Resistant to Magic. Of course, I'm also of the opinion that Lothlorien hand-and-a-half swords should be two-handed only (and I suppose Rivendell ones as well, although we do actually see Last Alliance elves using them with shields in Fellowship as awkward as it would be to do so), with the Clansmen of Lamedon special rule, so take my opinions as you will haha.

[@NoobsandMen]

I rate the switching of the army bonuses, I really rate that idea. The hand an a half sword to 2handers is definitely an interesting opinion. I know some elf players that would be really dirty about that hahaha. -Sean

[@NoobsandMen]

Fuck 2h swords -Liam

[@muesliman100]

two-handed swords with the broadsword special rule should be part of the last alliance LL

[@grimgrauman7650]

I think you forget that the Fangorn bonus makes you immune to transfix. And that is huge

[@NoobsandMen]

Yeah it probably should be low A tier really, fangorn just makes me sad -Liam

[@Gusmil89]

@@NoobsandMen Fangorn is possible only one profile away from being great! something for 20p or 40p :P

[@NoobsandMen]

Give meeeee Huornssss!!!!!! -sean

[@Gusmil89]

@@NoobsandMen yes, one of the profiles I want to arrive to mesbg. I think it would be a great but easy add to the game.

[@siremilcrane]

Only annoying thing about the rangers one is that they should just have it base, if they're worried about the ability to mount them all on horses make it a special rule that gives them 2 attacks on foot. But yeah as it stands it mandatory, its the only one where I'd say there is no possible situation you'd want to give it up (I suppose like you say you could splash a hero in like halbarad but thats niche)

[@NoobsandMen]

You are bang in mate. The Rangers army bonus should be baked into the models profile, I really don't understand why they did this to the rangers. Give them their current army bonus, baked into the profile and then make their army bouns stalk unseen. That's what I think they should have. -Sean

[@bobdown9092]

I versed some eagles the other day, that didn't have their army bonus. I was using D7 dwarves. They couldn't reliably kill anything. I suspect this army bonus would be very good then, for doing their main job, being an assassin, and it certainly makes them better at dealing with chaff. Bit underated here i think, BUT there isn't much in the way of green allies for them, so if you want to use eagles in a list where it matters, you lose that army bonus. tough.. isengard's is good on paper, until you realise how many ways they have to deal with courage tests. so yeah, agreed, it's very meh. i have seen horde rivendell shoot opponents to death, using that army bonus. bit underrated there i think. while i agree that mordor's is hard to keep track of, plus one courage and free reroll 1s to wound is actually very nice. i very rarely see mordor with yellow allies, because i guess in part, it is quite good when it goes off... Interesting then, that in your top two tiers (ignoring the dragon) that you have armies that are almost never allied yellow/red, because the army bonuses are so good. That and they have enough green allies to cover all bases.

[@star_wars_miniatures]

My favourite always has to be Army of Thror with that 6” banner!!

[@NoobsandMen]

It's a really nice one for sure -Liam

[@juandamicotavoloni]

Thanks for the new video! I will listen to this now while travelling! Keep it going lads, you are doing a great work!

[@NoobsandMen]

No U ❤️ -Liam

[@thecreeperkingplays]

What a lovely suprise always look forward to your videos!

[@alfiegarvin7089]

khazad dum re rolling ones is forgetful for whatever reason but with burly khazad gaurd its very good.

[@NoobsandMen]

Oh if anyone could remember to use it, then it's amazing hahaha -Sean

[@koen0th]

Yes, Finally! I love your tier/army lists. Was waiting for this one and it dropped on my birthday🎉

[@NoobsandMen]

Happy birthday mate! Clearly this is our present to you 😉 -Liam

[@finnbruton7274]

Really nice wrangling lads. Yeah the Eagles and Radagast’s Alliance needs fixing. Hot take but I think eagles need an extra attack OR that they can’t be trapped (as they can always fly up). Otherwise they are a lot of points that are just a bit meh.

[@NoobsandMen]

Yeah eagles need something a little extra, not being trapped could be nice, you could definitely still get a lot of dice into one but would maybe let them live a little longer. Could even give Gwahiir a taskmaster esc rule that gives him 4+ free heroic moves -Liam

[@ryangale3757]

Flying models being able to be trapped just feels weird in general, same with them not being able to back up off ledges. Like, if I'm a giant bat and I'm on the edge of a ledge and some guy is swinging a sword at me, I'm just gonna fly away to avoid it; I'm not falling to the ground like a chump.

[@muesliman100]

Strong advantage of the misty mountains bonus is to still knock prone S6 models on the charge. Especially against cave trolls and fell beasts that's really strong. Against a cave troll you on average kill them instead of doing 1,5 wounds, a fell beast just straight up flees and now you have 6 strikes on 5s against the prone ringwraith, those on average 2 wounds will quite sometimes kill a ringwraith. The problem really is that they have basically no green allies so you generally lose the army bonus anyway and it becomes an alliance with Gwaihir.

[@muesliman100]

To make anyone actually play eagles pure again the army bonus should probably be like the rangers army bonus. +1 A for Gwaihir and eagles

[@bryanknecht6860]

You finally did it😂 an army bonus tier list🎉 if you need inspirations... top allies in green or top allies in yellow maybe.🤔

[@NoobsandMen]

We bloody did it haha. I rate the idea of top allies as a tier list, would be hard but man I have some ideas already. -Sean

[@medburyminiatures9607]

also Feifdoms is S Tier

[@Asgarodian]

Another great Tier list :) I didnt expect it but agree nearly to 100 % ^^

[@NoobsandMen]

As per normal me and Liam are correct about everything. -Sean

[@invisan00b]

The situation you described with durin being melted by palace guard and captain happened to me a few week ago. 1 turn and he was gone

[@NoobsandMen]

Ran him at a tournament a few weeks ago and he actually barely saw combat Thankfully he's other rules made him worth being there -Liam

[@joshuagarcia4523]

I mained Khand for a while (and even now, they are my main evil faction). I think the fact that the faction can't even function without that army bonus actually HURTS more than helps. Khand has very little versatility--you either run chariot spam or horse archer spam (or both). If your local meta includes lots of armies with lightly-armored infantry/light cav, then great! But if your local meta has lots of armies with very high defense, you're gonna get crushed over and over and over, since the arrows will bounce off armor easily and the chariot impact hits will never get any kills. It makes it very difficult to commit to pure Khand and you're almost kind of pigeonholed into allying with Easterlings, their only historical allies. The annoying thing is, Rohan can run unlimited horse archer spam too--but that's their "additional rule," not an army bonus. It would be nice if Khand got something similar. As it stands, I would actually put the army bonus as C or even D tier.

[@NoobsandMen]

God you are so right mate. Khand just really needs a little bit extra to bring them up to the current LvL that game is at. -Sean

[@joshuagarcia4523]

@@NoobsandMen there's quite a bit of room for expansion, but Khand is such a minor faction, I don't think they will ever get revisited. There was that named character that never got a model or full profile (Keiseimu, Ravager of Ithilien), and looking to the real-world Mongols as inspiration, you could add things like Kharash slave troops (chaff infantry); Bactrian camel kettle drummers and banner bearers; heavy cavalry; mercenaries (as in Shadow of the East supplement); and siege weapons. There's so much more important stuff missing from the range that I highly doubt Khand will ever be expanded.

[@bluemoka8992]

I'm confused, i remember you guys talking about how good the isengard keyword is

[@NoobsandMen]

Our opinions are fickle and change like the tides. Also we just forget everything we say ever immediately after we say it -Liam

[@sillylilly714]

as a rivendell player, I can't stand for this slander I mean yeah it almost never works b u t I had one game when it let me destroy a full morannon warband when I took the risk to not move hoping to kill a few before fighting so

[@xenosophont]

Depending on the circumstances (scenario/matchup etc.) and the correct timing, it can most certainly slap. A lot of times it is just dead weight however... :(

[@sillylilly714]

@@xenosophont fortunately rivendell has a ton of green alliances, so it's very rarely when I even need to consider whether I want the bonus or not

[@NoobsandMen]

Yeah honestly it's a shame. It feels like it should be such an amazing bonus but it just falls short. It's great for the 1st couple of turns but then as mentioned it becomes dead weight for the rest of the game. I've had games where it's popped off and I've won because of it but 9 times outta 10 it's done little to nothing. It would be an Stier bounus if it was an army bouns for an evil faction. -Sean

[@NoobsandMen]

Honestly all it needs to be a good bonus is to have it just be a hero rather than army leader, it'd be used so much more and actually be a bad thing to lose -Liam

[@xenosophont]

@@NoobsandMen (Liam) I agree and there's also no "narrative-based rules writing" reason for "Tangado Haid..." to have to be called by the "Army Leader". Elrond in that prologue scene the rule was based upon wasn't the "Army Leader" even of his own Lindon/Imladris contingent of the Last Alliance, it was Gil-Galad (a.k.a. big G).

[@shishisei]

I still think that the Easterling army bonus is quite bad. Half of it doesn't work until you're broken, the other side only works once, on very few scenarios, and may do nothing at all anyway. The only reason is getting any use at all it's because of the LL. I mean, not as bad as Rivendell, which I've never seen come into play.

[@NoobsandMen]

Nah that army bonus can literally win you games, either models stick around when they normally wouldn't or the game goes that turn longer than it would and you get the positioning you need. It's true it doesn't go off often but when it does it's an amazing army bonus -Liam

[@muesliman100]

Also, whatever is that about the Rivendel bonus being bad? Have you ever played Rivendel? Definitely more than half of the games I have played with last alliance I made quite some use of it.

[@NoobsandMen]

I play Rivendell on the regular, it's been my main army for 6+ months and the army bounes is just not good. Don't get me wrong I use it but I can think of 1 game where it was actually really good. The rest it has no notable mention in any game. You use it for the 1st turn or 2 of the game and if it doesn't kill a bunch of stuff well it's just not done anything. After that you will very very rarely use it throughout the match. Having to keep your leader back to use it is not great. If you do decide to use it alot and sit back, you give your opponent board control, which is particularly bad on objective scenarios. The only scenarios that it's worth not moving is 'lords of battle' and 'to the death' maybe one or two others like 'assassination'. At the end of the day it's just a restricting army bouns. Play rive knights now your movement advantage has been cucked. Foot Rivendell your giving up board control. -Sean

[@PirateCptn]

You spelled my name right this time!

[@NoobsandMen]

Dam. -Liam

[@user-wr2dv9fy9f]

The Rohan army bonus counts for heroes too right?

[@NK123454321]

It does :)

[@NoobsandMen]

Yeah absolutely, it's really solid -Liam

[@tacquitotim570]

PffURST!

[@NoobsandMen]

Pfurst in our hearts

[@intothewestpodcast]

Great video boys! Mordor being in the hole due to the accounting is 100% valid 😂 Edit: One thing I wanted to point out is that Erebor Reclaimed bonus was faqed to not include the Iron Hills warriors taken in that force so it becomes much worse than Army of Thror's bonus 😢 -Richard

[@NoobsandMen]

Fuck bookkeeping 😂 Yeah if you take Thorin that is the case, tho it does count for Iron Hills warriors when you take oldman Dain as they gain the Erebor keyword -Liam

[@medburyminiatures9607]

"duinhir is garbage" tell me you havent played fiefdoms without telling me you havnt played feifdoms

[@NoobsandMen]

I'll say it again. "Duinhir is meh" -Sean

[@medburyminiatures9607]

@@NoobsandMen he's turbo af, So he rerolls to wound, if he heroics you can have 10 archers reroll to wound aswell So 10 archers who hit on 3+, reroll 1s, that's 78% hit rate pre much, then rerolls to wound, so your shooting d6? Instead of 16% chance to wound, it's 29.5% chance to wound, so basically 1 in 3, hits will wound d6, if it's a d4 or d3 target 54% chance to wound, All that on 80% hit rate... man in many games, I call a shoot with another hero and accuracy from duinhir, and playing against like army of the dead, shoot through the dead warriors, into the aragorn and popped either all his fate, or all of aragorn, it's so turbo you can yeet either masses of troops, or heros 24% away, there so reliable

[@medburyminiatures9607]

Best part is because it's in a shoot, hey get to shoot first aswell so you never suffer from loosing 30% off your archers to elves before you get to shoot back, They hit better then elves or equal to, + wound elves aswell as elves wound them, for way cheaper

[@NoobsandMen]

Dudes mid at best -Sean

[@NoobsandMen]

My biggest issue with Duinhir is that his * ability literally doesn't effect any other models other than his own, it's so pointless being the * ability. With heroes like Angbors fearless, Forlong reroll 1s and the 12" banner they're actually really good and synergistic abilities making the list better. Duinhir just annoys me. -Liam

[@darchensol5112]

i run sauron, sorry. i also like to run him in 3 model armies so you cant quarter me without killing him as well. yeah its not very good in objective games (also wastes that 24 warband) but you can win just about anything. . . eventually😆note this is only used vs arseholes

[@NoobsandMen]

Jesus

[@darchensol5112]

@@NoobsandMen aye that's most folks response :D can run pretty much anything from 500 up to 1000. just swap out the other two models (captains on wargs at 500, all the way up to witching double fell beast) with trip heroes most builds are pretty might heavy as well. 7-9 but it is a truly rare sighting, only used by request or against a great and terrible scumbag. my actual armies (isengard/dunland/khazad/corsairs) are much more civilised.

[@grimgrauman7650]

How is dark denizens in B tier? Like they only have an ruel so you can play them pure. There is no real "Army Bonus" 😂

[@NoobsandMen]

It's b tier for that reason, if you lost it you could barely play them 😂 it's not a great army bonus but it's one you wouldn't really drop -Liam

[@grimgrauman7650]

@@NoobsandMen it an army bonus i nearly all the time drop😂. The best way to play them is to allay them.

[@muesliman100]

It would be really nice if, like the dead of dunharrow, it would also give the spider queen harbinger of evil

[@davidcanavan957]

Moria bonus is so bad 😔

[@NoobsandMen]

Poor old moria getting shafted. -Sean