Metaphor ReFantazio - Fantasy Persona... But What About Performance? - DF Tech Review

[@DigitalFoundry]

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[@B2gboi]

Gamers talk about unoptimized this or that but this might be the first time I agree. How is something so technically underwhelming not running at a locked 60 on current gen consoles.

[@JoaoPedro-ox6sf]

At least the other games were technically impressive

[@crazyc9326]

Glad i play on PC😁 i get over 130 fps on this game in Native 4K on max settings..

[@JL-nb1yc]

Completely agree!

[@stateofmind578]

4 years ago, as launch game: Demon's Souls. A solid 60fps in 4K. Polished as hell. 4 years later: 😂😢

[@kajerlou]

@@crazyc9326 which is funny since Oliver showed how image qualities issues persist even on his 4090 at 4k. Even at 8k downsampled it's not exactly great.

[@mr.c9382]

Their engine clearly wasn’t designed for big areas.

[@Whiteshade]

this engine should have shelved with release of ps4. I downloaded the demo to PS5 and it gave me headache. Tried PC demo and 4k still had aa issues.

[@starbez]

​@@Whiteshade*ps3

[@nikitos3558]

​@@WhiteshadeI would rather take the current engine they use than the overhyped and horrendous Unreal Engine which makes me regret buying a PC because of the immense stutters I get while playing ANY UE game...

[@patriotsfan122480]

The engine was created for Persona 5, which is almost 10 years old and originally released for both PS3 and PS4 consoles. The shimmering was my biggest issue with it personally. Became very distracting.

[@Rafael-km9mx]

@@mr.c9382 0 issues on pc

[@Mn0ty]

This should run at 60fps on PS4

[@thatmemeguy2520]

maybe on the ps4 pro with lower res

[@oliverf.4235]

It actually does, as mentioned in the video.

[@jaspelino1963]

@@oliverf.4235that’s the PS4 Pro version running on PS5.

[@herax1985]

@@oliverf.4235 nop, the ps5 runs the ps4 version of the game at 60fps

[@MortimerZabi]

I have a PS4 Pro and the framerate of the demo fluctuates between 30 to 60 fps.

[@Kanokey]

Give it a year for Atlus to fix the issues by selling you a $70 dollar patch called "Metaphor Refantazio ReloadRoyal" Edition

[@lum1notryc828]

They said they're not doing that anymore.

[@Xerzene]

​@@lum1notryc828sure trust the company that released SMTV Vengeance this year, a re-release and upgraded version of SMTV lol

[@bruh-qx1qi]

@@lum1notryc828they just did with SMT 5 lol…. What?

[@maxiiMK8]

@@bruh-qx1qithat’s not just a simple upgrade that adds the equivalent to a third semester - it’s literally a whole new story from the ground up.

[@DigitalStarry]

@@lum1notryc828I’ll believe it when they don’t do another rerelease after five years. Besides that info came from Midori whose been proven dubious at best

[@Haru23x]

This game should work flawlessly on any 10 year old - current hardware. The ports are a mess.

[@varenoftatooine2393]

Just seems like it's an overall messy performance, I do wonder if any patches will touch performance. Either way, based on what I know of their other recent games, and the issues with this one, it seems highly unlikely that Atlus will continue using the same engine for any future projects.

[@preslim84]

runs great on my PC

[@varenoftatooine2393]

@preslim84 that's great, but it should run well on a PS3. It should be trivial to run this game well.

[@jollama]

@@preslim84whoosh

[@Sur_GalaChad2189]

It does t even get 30 fps on steam deck that's wild considering their games typically run amazing

[@albert9525]

I love your work on this channel Oliver. Keep up the great work.

[@theinvisibleman-e8v]

Oliver is amazing

[@Aggro224]

@@theinvisibleman-e8vHe won’t hook up with you stop kissing his ass.

[@rellikai945]

Man 200% render scale to get rid of all that distracting looking aliasing? oof.

[@DBTHEPLUG]

Which makes it go from 90-105 to 30-35 FPS for me.

[@RobinsMusic]

@@DBTHEPLUGturn on full screen (and maybe vsync) in the settings

[@DBTHEPLUG]

@@RobinsMusic Like that increases FPS? Rendering a game at 8K resolution is just, heavy.

[@RobinsMusic]

@@DBTHEPLUG just try it lol I had very bad stuttering at borderless windowed but it was gone in fullscreen

[@RobinsMusic]

@@DBTHEPLUG but yeah I’m using a 1080p monitor with a 2070S so maybe it’s different for you

[@leonthesleepy]

That's one of the blurriest, and noisiest native 4k image quality I have seen in a while...

[@davidpliskin3330]

This is pretty inexcusable performance. And honestly I’m sick of hearing just wait for PS5 Pro.

[@DKFProductions]

I am too. Especially when bad optimization doesn't always go away with better hardware. Look at bloodborne on PS5

[@KillahMate]

It's not Sony's fault if a studio can't release a competent PS5 game. They didn't go into Atlus' offices and hold the devs at gunpoint until they made the performance suck. Atlus did that themselves.

[@andreabeccarisi1126]

​@KillahMate in fact, OP never mentioned it's Sony's fault, so what are you talking about??

[@fseiba6718]

​@@WyrmsouIWukong was bad as well lmao. People just love to complain cus they are miserable- i bet all there life is saddness and despair and they whine over everything

[@fightnight14]

​@@DKFProductionsNah Ps5 was just underpowered. Way behind

[@dottyorb]

It's a shame they couldn't implement MSAA considering the PS3-era tech, as that would massively help with the aliasing.

[@KillahMate]

It would also drop the already low framerates even lower. Still, you're right - a 4X MSAA render combined with an additional SMAA filter on top of that would probably result in an image so much smoother that they could drop the resolution a bit further and it would still look good but actually run better.

[@Scorpwind]

That would be so cool.

[@nintendork07]

there is really no excuse, because persona 5 royal has FXAA and SMAA on PC, but metaphor doesn't even have basic solutions, only supersampling which TANKS performance

[@TrishtanAG]

​@@KillahMate you can do exactly that with the PC version and that looks great.

[@astrea555]

@@TrishtanAG How? Just force it in drivers?

[@datdavid]

As usual, virtually zero reviewers mention this shit. Thank you DF!

[@DoritosBurger]

Their job is to review the game itself and the average person isn’t going to notice fps drops that aren’t too extreme.

[@shinramiddlemanager7949]

​@@DoritosBurgerNo, they exist to review a product, of which technical performance is legitimate criteria for prospective buyers.

[@ryanpuerto828]

@@DoritosBurger performance is included in a review.. its the technical aspect of the game what are you even talking about

[@r.lr.l]

@@shinramiddlemanager7949I am ngl I am usually a stickler for performance did not even know there were performance issues playing on default settings on pc so the reviewers may honestly just not have noticed.

[@DoritosBurger]

@@ryanpuerto828 yeah and clearly the performance was fine if nobody mentioned it. Only DF makes a big deal out of this stuff because it’s their job.

[@herpderp3622]

Absurd performance for something that seems like it's from the PS3 era. Not to mention, no AA in 2024 is straight up insane.

[@Benisbucker]

It's bizarre. Looks like Fire Emblem Three Houses but on modern hardware.

[@deathtrooper2048]

No AA > TAA

[@MetsukiR]

@@deathtrooper2048 All you need is to spend 5 minutes in the demo to understand that's not true.

[@Xeltos]

Considering it's running on the Catherine/Persona 5 engine from PS3, yes. lol

[@MeTaViToRFeNiX]

@@herpderp3622 Yeah, this game it's carried by it's art style, but this shit really looks like a ported PS3 game.

[@darks820]

Remember when people said 4k resolution was so good that we wouldn't need anti-aliasing anymore?

[@clein360]

In 28"

[@MarbleThumbs]

That can be true, just depends on the game.

[@mmpsp693]

At least the latest performance patches highly improved FPS in my decade old PC

[@DoritosBurger]

@@mmpsp693 how dare you not upgrade your pc every year? /s

[@mmpsp693]

@@DoritosBurger GTX 1060 baby!

[@timbo_x3]

Fantastic video Oliver, you're really cementing your position in the DF roster. Keep it up! ❤

[@MisterReen]

Oli is great!

[@theinvisibleman-e8v]

Amazing work from Oliver

[@Aggro224]

@@MisterReenGive him a b j already sheesh

[@shinramiddlemanager7949]

Oh, I'm sure there'll be plenty telling us the game looks fine to them and runs at 60 at all times on their magic PS5 alongside their stutter free SH2.

[@ryanpuerto828]

There are so many who were saying that about the demo… “zero issues on my PS5”

[@Rosa_Canina]

​@@ryanpuerto828The weird thing is... I never noticed big problems despite feeling every little drop in some other games. I did notice the shimmering from a lack of AA a lot, though.

[@ryanpuerto828]

@@Rosa_Canina if you have a VRR display that may have helped, the game stays in VRR range except for in cutscenes but the issues are definitely present

[@woodsy4458]

Thought I was one of the ones with lucky performance, but after beating the demo it was the ps4 version, that’s probably why some people don’t have issues

[@kostasbousbouras2654]

What xbox players say though?....i think the same when they "have to". BTW, Solent Hill 2 is a great game.

[@MeTaViToRFeNiX]

Can't wait to buy this on PS6, when Atlus re-releases it for the third time.

[@epicgamescene9273]

Metaphor: Refantazio Golden Royale Edition

[@fseiba6718]

It will prob get dlc but not new edition wich makes waiting pointless now. Persona 3 reload got the dlc treatment and every atlus game will now.

[@f.9344]

Thats my biggest fear :( this is why I cant bring my self up to buy this game on launch week

[@KEVBOYMUSIC]

@@fseiba6718 Ya I'll wait and see for that

[@BurritoKingdom]

​@@epicgamescene9273 Metaphor: Refantazio Refantasized

[@theinvisibleman-e8v]

Incredibly professional and wonderfully presented by Oliver.

[@prod.b4bnik]

ur not real 💀

[@sevrzushy7939]

@@prod.b4bnik lmfao

[@theinvisibleman-e8v]

@@prod.b4bnik you are a fine one to talk

[@Aggro224]

Bro just give him a b j already and get it over with.

[@prod.b4bnik]

@@theinvisibleman-e8v zip it up when you’re done bro 😹

[@paulcoffield2102]

As DF say, this looks like a PS3-era game. There's absolutely NO REASON for it to run as shoddily as it does on current gen hardware. With devs that are pushing the envelope, technical problems are a little more understable, not this though.

[@AVerySillySausage]

Yeah, noticed instantly a downgrade in both visuals and framerate compared to P3R, a bit disappointing. And my god the jaggies even at native 4k with maxed PC settings, no surprised it doesn't have any anti-aliasing at all.

[@magicmasterplayer]

⁠@@AVerySillySausagethe game started development in 2016 right after the Japanese version of P5 Vanilla was released; so they just reused the P5 Engine; P5 Engine can’t handle UE level Graphics because it’s a Engine originally made for the PS3 that Atlus hacked to it’s knees to make it work on other platforms in higher framerates; Metaphor is using the Vanilla version of the P5 Engine not the updated P5 Royal version of the Engine so none of Royal’s graphical improvements are here

[@AVerySillySausage]

@@magicmasterplayer They needed to do something about anti-aliasing at the very least, it's the most noticeable issue. Having no option to get rid of jaggies with max settings already at 4k is ridiculous. I'm not supersampling beyond 4k just for that. Idc if it started in 2016, games didn't have jaggies like this even back then.

[@tkp98]

I played the demo and enjoyed it very much but I’m gonna wait and see if they can smooth out the performance before I lay down any money. Thanks for the information and great video. ✌️

[@vintatsh]

It is impressive that a game that looks like this, lacking most modern features, performs this poorly while having bad image quality.

[@rodzaevsky4271]

What's wrong with it? The game looks great

[@leroiarouf1142]

​@@rodzaevsky4271do you have eye ?

[@rodzaevsky4271]

@@leroiarouf1142 yes, game isn't the most technologically advanced, but it's very stylish - that's much better

[@arquivofloyd]

@@rodzaevsky4271 The game looks worse than games released 6~7 years ago, and manages to run worse, too, in modern hardware. Atlus is a big company with years on the market. They SHOULD do better than this. I agree the game has style. It doesn't mean it should run like shit.

[@rainyzack8134]

@@rodzaevsky4271 the menus and ui are very good but the graphics dont looks great at all to me. Im surprised this game runs worse for me than p3r which looked at lot better.

[@KujaNiv100]

holy shit 1660p?!? The games looks likes to be 1080p without AA!

[@Xeccess]

Nah, resolution wise it looks fine, it's just aliased to all hell

[@helmutkohl6207]

​@@Xeccesseven on pc with 4k its the worst in town the game is great regardless but they could have done a better Job with that

[@Xeccess]

@@helmutkohl6207 Best thing we can do is disable the camera shake in the settings. That at least reduces the aliasing when you're not moving much

[@doomham7652]

The character models look as alias'd as Fire Emblem Three Houses characters.

[@RJRedtail]

@@Xeccess That's the point. It looks lower because the lack of adequate AA.

[@BurritoKingdom]

Atlus is probably going to use Unreal for their next Persona game. I have a feeling P3 Reload was a test of the engine. Just like how Catherine was used to test the PS3.

[@nr2676]

Their first game on Unreal Engine 4 was not P3 Reload, but SMT V on Switch from 2021.

[@Belgarath777]

Definitely a game to wait 6 months or so before playing....like most large RPGs.

[@jafzja1782]

Imagine any western studio releasing a game like this (technically) and receiving a 94 in MC. If Dragon Age has this performance they are going to kill the game on reviews.

[@NostraSamus]

It has been done. Elden ring performs terribly and got rave reviews.

[@Alexander-nr5tt]

@@NostraSamus Elden Ring is not a western game. It also looks much better than this title.

[@NostraSamus]

@@Alexander-nr5tt Its a game developed for a western audience and calling it much better looking is a reach and a subjective opinion. Elden Ring is not a visually appealing game to most. In fact, none of From Software’s games are that graphical except for Demon Souls remake and Sekiro.

[@mr.ilikespam6081]

Because they make the most stink about graphics while Eastern developer don't

[@Ramona122003]

You mean like Skyrim?

[@mr.penguin4614]

not playing as a highschooler is a big step in the right direction for me

[@Y0URGRANDMA]

Yeah as someone who hates this game series I'm glad it's finally catering to me, the person who hates the series.

[@nr2676]

Atlus did that earlier in multiple SMT games: - SMT Strange Journey - you play as a adult soldier from United Nations who looks like ,,Doom Guy'' - Majin Tensei 2 Spiral Nemesis - you play as a adult partisant - Soul Hackers 2 - you play as a Ringo, female AI, another adult protagonist - SMT Devil Summoner (1995) - you play as a soul of dead teenager who possesed a body of detective called Kyouji Kuzunoha, wow teenager mixed with adult protagonist - SMT II - you play as a young gladiator called Aleph, who is literally the incarnation of Jesus, and his mother Hiroko is the incarnation of Maria, and as a Jesus you kill own father God (YHVH) with help of Satan (Law Route) or Lucifer (Chaos Route) The only one non teenager protagonist in Hashino games: - Digital Devil Saga - adult soldier The only one non teenager protagonist in Persona games: - Persona 2 Eternal Punishment - you play as Maya, adult female journalist

[@mr.penguin4614]

@@Y0URGRANDMA who said i hate the series? just not into high school stuff anymore. im 26.

[@nightfears3005]

You still play as an emo kid though?

[@nr2676]

@@nightfears3005 Yes but now in Metaphor he talks like Ringo in Soul Hackers 2

[@jessepotter365]

I started the demo on my desktop PC with a 4090. The game looks good, but not because of the game assets. It looks good due to the art direction. I then played it on my Steamdeck OLED and it has become my favorite way to play the game. The game runs great at native resolution and high textures while still keeping all the vibrant art and cutscenes. It will drop into the 40-50 fps territory, but I did not find it distracting to gameplay.

[@The-One-and-Only]

yah, I'd argue that's one of the best ways to play this game. can't wait for Atlus to announce it for the Switch 2.

[@jessepotter365]

@@OfflineDave rendering scale: 100% ambient occlusion: on texture quality: high frame rate limit: 120. Don't expect high frames in cities. Dungeons and battles are often over 50. In some places and cutscenes, you can hit 90. 90Hz is the OLED SD refresh rate. Yes, there are alaising issues at this resolution, but as the video showed, you can't really get around these anyway.

[@Sabre-Lait]

Idk, at native resolutions the portraits (and overall the entire UI) are just slightly stretched enough that for example Brigitta's makeup ends up looking like a blur of pixels. You can fix it by running it at 1080p but then, good luck reaching even 30FPS in that infamous city market area from the demo. And if that place doesn't make it to 30fps, i don't want to think about how many other places in the full game are going to struggle...

[@victorn1291]

Just a suggestion for you Steam Deck users, try rendering the game at 2560x1600 on your PC and use Moonlight+Sunshine to stream to the Steam Deck. Thats 4x the resolution of the Steam Deck, and the supersampling should clean up some of the aliasing. I havnt tested, will report back once I buy the game.

[@thedarkness6652]

The demo was patched after launch. It now runs like a charm on PC.

[@Jun3Bugg]

Imagine PS3/360 games not running stable 60fps on PS5/XBS(S,X). Way to go Atlus

[@max_the_german4989]

Why did they select 1656p? The „standard“ 1440p would solve the GPU bottleneck, bringing 46 fps to 60 fps. (46 x (1656/1440)^2 = 60.835)

[@kewa_design]

guess 1440p is too jagged without any AA

[@hsvfanjan17]

@@kewa_design I mean even now with 1656p the aliasing artifacts can be seen in every frame

[@max_the_german4989]

@@kewa_design I always prefer a stable framerate over some more noticeable jags. DF demonstrated that even 8k couldn’t completely solve this issue.

[@MetsukiR]

@@kewa_design Hell, even the 1656p used is too jagged. They need to, but won't, implement some form of AA.

[@KillahMate]

Zero antialiasing of any kind means that 1440p would look terrible when upscaled to 4K. Most PS5 games use TAA and have such a smooth image at 1440p that just a little sharpening is usually enough to look good when upscaled to 4K.

[@fightnight14]

The recommended system requirements are of a PC from 2016/2017. People should set their expectations. This game will not blow you away graphically

[@xerontokyo]

3:00 - Because Team Maniax have different UI designers than P-Studio and Studio Zero. SMT V has Lead UI by Takashi Kato with Ayumi Sugita and Saori Hagiwara as members, Soul Hackers 2 Lead UI is Yukari Yokoro and members are Yuki Terada and Mai Akao and lastly SMT VV have lead UI by Takashi Kato and only one member which is Momoka Ohori. Before those titles Team Maniax UI team only consists of Takashi Kato and Yuki Terada.

[@ishaansaral502]

Atlus moment. They could greatly use some help on the engine and tech side. All of their games very much look PS3 era, and this is no different. Tales of Arise is a great example for a game with great art style and good graphics. Xenoblade Chronicles 3 pushes the limits of the switch while looking better than this. This is pretty inexcusable for Atlus. Even From Software has shown some evolution from Dark Souls 3 to Elden Ring to Armored Core 6.

[@DigitalStarry]

The weird thing is SMTV looked really good for a Switch game and nicer than this

[@Xerzene]

​@@DigitalStarrybecause they used UE4 for that game and P3R, this one uses the old Persona 5 and Catherine engine for sum reason

[@FelixS.]

XBC3 looked like arse, way worse than 2.

[@astrojeet]

@@FelixS. It looked terrible on the switch. Use it on an emulator, which disables the terrible motion blur and chromatic aberration with some resolution upscalers. It looks really good. But yea it really stretches the switch. The switch can barely make it run and it scales down the resolution quite a lot and the chromatic aberration is some of the most aggressive I have seen in a game and causes a lot of eye strain. Motion Blur and Chromatic Aberration is just evil incarnate, will never understand why developers implement it especially chromatic aberration.

[@LeonJohnson-yi3hg]

Tales of arise gameplay is gross.

[@Kennykazey]

The AO is the performance culprit. It destroys both GPU and (especially) CPU performance, and scales 1:1 with resolution.

[@salvatoreesposito8994]

It almost halves my framerate, what the fuck are they using lmao

[@kohiek]

Thanks for talking about this game! Also pointing out problems with a game could help improve the game and future games!

[@jckorn9148]

The Steam version of the demo was awful when it released but they fixed it a few days ago. It runs great on the Steam Deck, thankfully.

[@SrAlex-yv1ip]

Yes. I have a 4070 ti super card and before the update i have 55-65fps on the city. Now i have 80-100fps on 4k

[@kraenk12]

It runs worse on steam deck than on ps5 but people don’t care because it’s turn based.

[@Curt1813]

​@@kraenk12 Is that surprising to you? Why would a Steam Deck run like a PS5?

[@flamingmanure]

@@kraenk12 are you right in the head? the steam deck is basically a portable ps3 on steroids, its a miracle that it even plays the game at all, let alone run better on a ps freakin 5 XD

[@xtr.7662]

​@@flamingmanureits definitely not a portable ps3 it can outperform the base ps4 in many games it usually performs around The Xbox one to ps4

[@davids.2703]

It's Play Anywhere on Xbox, so I think that's the way to go. You get it on console and PC with cross saves.

[@sEaNoYeAh]

Such a great little feature. Always nice to have

[@skdns168]

It got a day one patch and it seems that they patched the anti-aliasing and other stuff on ps5, even if its not the best but waaay better than the demo

[@The_Ostrich]

Dragonball Sparking Zero Tech Review next please.

[@ODIOPOWER]

stutter like crazy on PC

[@Baymax001x]

​@@ODIOPOWERover exaggeration.

[@joa6336]

​@@ODIOPOWERNah, just the first two matches, relative to the shaders being compiling, the game itself runs very well

[@xam323]

@@ODIOPOWER Shader stutters. Doesnt have a comp step so you're gonna encounter it. Otherwise, not a lot of stutters besides the main menu transitions

[@FelixS.]

Looks like horsedung, there you have your review.

[@cs14532playa]

For the algorithm! Thanks for all the work!

[@SajirouPlays]

15:41 It's almost if we should target 60 fps with the current limitations to the hardware in mind instead of getting a new more powerful machine than deciding to up the graphics and keep the status quo of bad framerate as we seem to oft do when developing new games for new hardware. We always tend to go " HEY MAKE MORE PARTICLE EFFECTS! " " HEY INCREASE THE GRAPHICS! " " HEY MAKE IT 8K!" and then we just get bad performance and we're back to square one instead of advancing forward.

[@xSKULLx90]

The 5th request should be Add a mode that targets 40fps, with a cap

[@Radek494]

40 fps modes are the way to go for these slower games.

[@BenutzernameXY]

​@@Radek49440fps is shit. Quick reaction time but stuttery video

[@trueNahobino]

Just going to put it here since it's in the topic of performance, this game actually runs pretty well on Intel Arc gpus! I was getting around 90-110 fps in the first desert area at 1440p w/ 100% render scale on my A770 16gb. Sucks to see it performing this rough on consoles though. Do also wish they had some form of anti-aliasing in since that is hurting the look on PC...

[@Neoxon619]

Will does look like Makoto Yuki, so I don't blame you for naming him that. I personally think he looks like the child of Makoto & Aigis, hence why I was about to name him Orpheus before I realized his canon name in English was Will.

[@BagOfH0lding]

This is the way

[@leonardocarvalho7306]

looks like makoto and nahobino merged bc of the eyes

[@gleam6370]

His canon name is will?

[@Neoxon619]

@@gleam6370 In English/Japanese/Mandarin, yes. Will has different names in other languages, though (Victor for Italian & Spanish, Éric for French, Pedro for Portuguese, Wilheim for German, & Alexander for Russian).

[@bnutz3k]

This runs nearly locked to 120 fps on my mid range PC with a 3090 ti in most areas. There are a few really impressive set pieces I've seen so far with really vast environments around you and I'll see some dips there. I could not get into Persona with all the high school stuff, but I'm really enjoying Metaphor. Love the artwork!

[@jphuwae4505]

It’s very bizarre not to have AA especially considering their last games Persona 3 Reload and Soul Hackers 2 both had AA. Maybe they should have just implemented 30fps cap instead. The Persona 5 engine seems to be very unoptimised

[@im_justin_u9493]

Persona 3 was on unreal and Soul hackers 2 was on unity. The P5 engine isn’t meant for bigger games same issue persists with the RE engine with dragons dogma and probably monster hunter wilds too.

[@jphuwae4505]

@@im_justin_u9493 yeah I couldn’t play Dragons Dogma, it just runs like a broken generator. Should be a crime to use RE Engine in an open world 😝

[@im_justin_u9493]

@@jphuwae4505 yea hopefully they make a new RE engine that’s capable of running open worlds with many NPCs roaming about.

[@Holy_Algorithm]

Wow, even the description of the menus und typeface etc are superb here too.

[@steel5897]

I don't understand why so many reviewers and people are praising the weakness press turn battle system as something new when it's literally the press turn system from SMT3. Gonna get this on PC eventually, I'm still not done with SMTV Vengeance.

[@ForTheViolence]

Archetypes provides different gameplay from persona users or just straight devil summoning like Nocturne or SMT games. The way your craft your teams is more hands on and rewarding than ever. I encourage you to play the game and see for yourself.

[@MonsterhunterFTWWTF]

The game plays much differently than you’d think than SMT even with the press turn system

[@nr2676]

Because SMT had no marketing in the West until maybe SMT V, and because of that most of people played only Persona 3-5 from Atlus games, which are very heavy advertised by Sega / Atlus. Most of people and even journalists still don't know about that: Persona it's SPINOFF of Megami Tensei franchise, and SMT III Nocturne in 2003 invented Press Turn Battle System, 20 years before Metaphor adopted this battle system from mainline series. And Metaphor it's much closer to another SMT spin-off series - Digital Devil Saga (archetypes - atma avatars, no fusion + traditional party system + Press Turn Battle System).

[@nightfears3005]

@@ForTheViolence It looks like a recycled digital devil saga combat system

[@ForTheViolence]

@@nightfears3005it’s not.

[@clonblurmin8194]

How on eart does this not run at a locked 60 fps on ps5? This looks early last gen, and runs like heavy current gen. Just sheer laziness.

[@FSAPOJake]

Never thought I'd see the day where Falcom puts out much more technically competent and much nicer-looking JRPGs. They have a much much smaller budget than Atlus, get way lower sales, and they also use their own custom engine. But just compare Trails Through Daybreak to this. Night and day.

[@danieloswald2210]

Really glad you guys did this analysis for this game, thank you

[@void0921]

Main character = Marth from FE + Makoto Yuki from PS3.

[@GenerationZ313]

I thought he look more a cross between like Aigis & Makoto Yuki from Persona 3.

[@killaknight12]

I named him Marth in the prologue, lol.

[@wanderingwobb6300]

@@GenerationZ313 He really is Door and Toaster's kid

[@lgolem09l]

PSA: This game is not gonna get performance boosts or more framerate options. If you want to wait for that you might as well play it now, and just accept that they just don't care about these things.

[@gv2212]

Nah I will get this on deep sale and play the ps4 version on ps5. They dont deserve full price for this.

[@Masked-Hero-Acid]

Studio 0 (the new home of many Persona veterans) developed this game compared to P-Studio developing P3Reload, so that may be why there are stronger connections between P5 than newer Atlus titles. I am pleased to hear that Atlus with Studio 0 kept the P5 engine alive, and hope they continue improving it and maybe one day create a game with 'modern' graphics tech. That being said they feel a bit like Nintendo at this point, choosing style, art, and gameplay over graphics, which is something I have zero issues with, and much prefer.

[@nakikuroko9972]

i disagree with updating the engine, PS3Reload and SMTV use Unreal, why not use it for future Studio 0 releases as well? Metaphor was probably already too late in development to change but future releases should forgo the P5 engine tbh...

[@Xbob42]

Game had bizarrely bad performance in the PC demo at launch, but after being patched easily locks to a prefect 120FPS on my machine at 3440x1440. According to Kaldaien, who made a performance fix via some SpecialK changes prior to the patch, the game had several strange reasons for the bad performance, including 2 internal framerate limiters fighting each other. Shortly after his performance fix, Atlus put out their own patch that cleaned performance up very well. Curious if they took note, as he went into a fair bit of technical detail.

[@kaiboshvanhortonsnort359]

Many devs have paid attention to Kaldaien, who has a deep grasp of these inner workings and deserves better than this sick world delivered him. Final Fantasy XV was absolutely unplayable before Special K.

[@Xbob42]

@@kaiboshvanhortonsnort359 Yes, Kaldaien does good work. He's like a close-but-not-quite-as-good Durante. (Which is not a knock, Durante's a fucking legend.) But his frame limiter is still is not as good as RTSS'.

[@grggrgrgg]

Haha what the hell. Isn't there a single dev in this studio that knows about quad overdraw, LODs, mipmaps, draw calls, culling techniques, aliasing? I guess it m akes sense, that these guys are wayy more on the 'art' side rather than the programming side. But still they should have at least one person who has technical knowledge.

[@DigitalStarry]

Honestly its really disappointing how bad the 3D visuals look. P5 came out nearly a decade ago and somehow its nicer to look at and it mastered how to look nice despite the limitations it had with being originally designed for PS3. SMTV came out on the Switch and also looks better 3D wise. Not only does it strain my eyes with how noticeable the constant shimmering and jaggles, but the colors feel so muted and dull compared to the beautiful 2D artwork. The performance is also super unacceptable for something that could have released over a decade ago. It ran poorly on my PC but recent patches for the demo have made it much more stable at least.

[@dorminbased]

I'm actually shocked how Atlus still remains in PS3 era, even Platinum Games moved on with Granblue Fantasy, Tales of series levelled up with Arise... It's so weird, Atlus has some of the best artstyles in industry and yet they slap those boring, semi-realistic assets all around. Maybe it's me looking at things through rose-tinted glasses, but didn't even Ni No Kuni II do assets way better than P3R and now Metaphor? I will still buy the game and probably enjoy it a lot, but i wish they would do something about all of those muddy textures everywhere that aren't as stylized as let's say characters.

[@ishaansaral502]

Yeah, Atlus's stagnation is crazy. Every other dev makes some sort of evolution. Tales of Arise is beautiful. Even From Software has made SOME improvements from Dark Souls 3 to Elden Ring. Xenoblade Chronicles 3 honestly looks better, and it's a switch title. Very disappointing showing from Atlus who are obviously content with no major engine or tech improvements.

[@dorminbased]

@@ishaansaral502 When it comes to lighting and vistas yeah XBC3 looks leagues better, i didn't use it as example cuz lets be honest enviromental textures are rather muddy as well, but its just hardware issue, they could easily scale it up if they had any room to do so.

[@SerCaliber]

I never REALLY had a to take a step back and look at visual issues during the demo. For me, it doesn’t affect my enjoyment. Don’t get me wrong, I love some pretty visuals, loved FF16, but it’s not at a state in Metaphor that hinders my enjoyment. I mean I’m playing P5R on the Switch, the graphically worst version, and I’m still enjoying it.

[@TheChristian50]

How come this game got good reviews compared to other games that had bad performance and took penalties for it

[@richardhunter9779]

Play the demo.

[@thelawyer95]

Asia bonus

[@monchicruz8278]

Because JRPGs fans will always ignore the issues with these type of games They also get extremely defensive about any criticism Toxic fanbase

[@Hydra_X9K_Music]

​@@monchicruz8278To be completely fair, graphics aren't everything. A game is good not just because of the graphics, but based on the whole package. This game looks to deliver a great story, great voice acting, great gameplay, and many hours of fun. Yeah the graphics may be underwhelming, but since the rest of the package is so good, many gamers, myslef included, choose to be a little more lenient towards the graphics, though that in no way means i'm saying the game is perfect, because it isn't.

[@ForTheViolence]

Because it’s a turn based single player game….. With epic full orchestrated music, top tier voice actors in several languages and top tier writing. A turd that runs at a locked 60fps is still a turd.

[@Psathionoukous]

Great work as always DF! I’m wondering if in a future video you could take a look at the actual impact of ambient occlusion on PC? It has a substantial performance hit but I don’t know if I can visually see a difference anywhere. Hoping some CSI-style “enhance” zoom-ins can tell me if anything is actually happening to justify losing the frames.

[@esoteric_nebula]

I'm not gonna spend $780 to play a $70 PS3 game at 60 FPS. The math ain't mathin'.

[@phrofile3613]

Sounds like skill issue

[@Entreped]

@@phrofile3613 Nah it sounds like they have a brain.

[@MegaKiri11]

You can spend $700 to play a $70 game at 70 FPS

[@jhvghjgjkhlihli]

then dont

[@DoubleVGames]

11:50 I don’t think it’s too odd why anime cutscenes like these are set to 30 fps. I’m pretty sure it’s a art design in that its trying to portray the medium like it is an anime you would watch

[@tyisafk]

24fps is standard in 2D animations like that, and frames and objects are typically drawn in sets of 12 or 8fps (2s and 3s). It's difficult to avoid stutter in that case since 60hz refresh is the standard for games. TVs typically support 24hz modes for that reason. What I think would be cool is taking advantage of VRR to fix that by forcing an evenly divisible frame limit like 48 for 60hz panels or 72hz for 120hz panels specifically when anime cutscenes play. It really isn't a huge deal for the average person, but smoothing things out a touch for those with compatible hardware is a nice bonus.

[@hundvd_7]

i''m honestly surprised the performance is this bad. I mean, it definitely isn't a graphically impressive game, but it runs perfectly fine for me. At least the demo did, for those ~12 hours on my PC. i5-10600k and 7900XT. I am running it at 1440p, with 125% resolution scaling, and I get a locked 144hz with only one or two occasional drops below 120. And for the most part, my GPU utilization must have been pretty low, like sub-40% (didn't check the stats, but I do have my PC in a Watt meter, which tells me a good approximation of the average) Not to mention I'm running this on Linux, through default Proton, without Gamescope or any optimizations. (I just moved from Fedora to NixOS and haven't had the chance to tweak stuff) So if anything, it should be even higher.

[@hundvd_7]

Cranked it up to 200% render resolution and tested it. 120+ fps in the dungeon. 100 fps in the city. The lowest fps is when "swordboarding" through the market, away from the cathedral or whatever: about 95. Honestly not terrible at all. I still don't have mangohud and stuff set up, so I don't know GPU usage, but based on Wattage, it should be around 70% now. Probably a bit less.

[@trueNahobino]

Yeah I'm getting around 90-110 fps at 1440p 100% scale on my A770 and 13600K, seems like console versions are just poorly optimized for some reason.

[@Teknoman]

I wouldnt really say the music sounds Persona like at all. Its closer to Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey in style by far, and even still unique at that.

[@ilikestuff9250]

Same composer so it makes sense.

[@Carinthian_Oak]

I've played the demo with 200% render scale (2560x1440) and i immediately noticed that its running worse than P5R. At 150% and max settings i get a smooth 120 fps now. Thats absolutely fine. And the best thing is, it also runs on steam deck.

[@FantasticAdventuresOfDenzil]

Just don't. Use DLDSR with max softness to eliminate aliasing of 3D and UI and get slightly better performance at the same time (don't have to use 200% render scale anymore).

[@dante19890]

You get better image quality if u output 1440p to ur tv. I was suprised how much more stable the image is in the first town segment.

[@HenryMarkV]

Could not make it through the demo. The aliasing is insane. It is shocking how bad it looks compared to Persona 3 Reload on PC

[@leviathan5207]

At some point this game genuinely looks worse than persona 4 golden ...

[@brenobonfim5749]

Persona 3 Reload looks pristine 4k60 on PS5 already, it's a different engine and much simpler game.

[@astrea555]

On pc I'm running the game at 1860p (NIS) with reshade DLAA+HQAA's temporal AA at perfect 60FPS on a 3060ti. It looks amazing and super sharp and smooth on my LG C1.

[@The_Local_Blacksmith]

Atlus can ReFantazisize about me buying this game, but it's not going to happen until it runs at a stable 60fps on base PS5 with decent image quality. Not too much to ask in 2024 considering I game on a 27" 1080p monitor.

[@neonmidnightx5640]

I couldn't decide if I wanted this game on xbox or ps5 but now I know it pretty much runs the same, I'll probably get it on xbox serires x

[@Aggro224]

Colors are washed out on ShitBox

[@neonmidnightx5640]

@@Aggro224 where? I played the demo on both and the colors look the same.

[@marvin8559]

People swore this game was running well on ps5 playing that demo I knew they were wrong. All that stuttering I felt wasn't in my head lol. It's a great game but needs a Day 1 patch clearly. But given what it looks like the performance should have been sorted before release, so I'm waiting for a sale

[@DarkPhoenix1515]

I think I prefer no AA over TAA making everything soft and blurry. This way, I can just implement my own TAA when desired, by taking off my glasses.

[@lucky_luciano2365]

It’s crazy how such a low quality graphical game can run so poorly in 2024. I played the Demo and I had to run it at 4K 200% render scale just to make the game look presentable. The game truly looks like something from 10 years ago

[@xtr.7662]

More like 15

[@andrewjazdzyk1215]

Yeah, witcher 3 was almost 10 years ago and looks wayyyyyyy better than this

[@lucky_luciano2365]

@ yeah definitely. I think I can run the Witcher 3 at like 80-100FPS at 4K Max without upscaling. With this game I’m struggling lol

[@xtr.7662]

@@andrewjazdzyk1215dont need to go this far any late ps3 game looks better than this

[@JKSmith-qs2ii]

This video really got me down but then you showed the PS4 verison running on the PS5. Definitely considering the PS4 version! I'm going to wait to see how the PS5 v1.00 disc version runs on ps5 pro and if that's running closer to 60 ill make the decision. Physical PS4 versions are expensive though from asia, but absolutely worth it for the solid performance.

[@Joseph-J-]

Spent all the visuals budget on the UI… This particularly sucks because it’s a great game (at least if the demo is anything to go on). Glad you’ve made this video and don’t just give them a pass, but I wish reviewers paid a bit more attention to performance.

[@Hydra_X9K_Music]

They do, its just that the rest of the game seemingly delivers that the graphics and performance don't end up contributing too much to the final verdicts in the long run. I'd rather have a game that looks like this, but has great gameplay, story and over 70 hours of content then a game with next gen graphics and good performance, but meh story and only 6 to 10 hours of content.

[@fseiba6718]

​@@Hydra_X9K_Music Looking at you space marine 2 🤓 I wondering when will people realize that grqphics don't make games fun or better. Graphics are good to show off on trailers but when u play the game its never determines the fun factor.

[@Leonesaurus1990]

I just started playing the game on my PC at native 4K and had to come here to do some research to see if anyone else is mentioning the blurry/noisy background imagery in the environments. Even with anti-aliasing turned on it still has shimmering issues on character faces and environmental objects. I'm running on a 4090 / 7800X3D, so it's really bizarre that Persona 5 Royal looked as sharp as a tack at 4K in ccomparison, but this game has some very unorthodox image quality. Game itself runs at a pretty solid 120FPS though, which is brilliant. No complaints there, unless I boost the resolution by 200%, and then it drops to around the 60s-70s range.

[@Purple-xo2gs]

iirc by doing that you're displaying roughly an 8k image (not true 8k but sharp enough) so that's to be expected that being said you shouldn't have to display an 8k like image to fix AA- I do think the AA is much better than what the demo was though, by far ps turn off ambient occlusion, for some reason in this game it's a very hard performance hitter in some scenes, even though the visual difference isn't really different

[@icedcapplord710]

You know a game's looking promising when the demo runs at like sub-30fps in towns on my i9 13900H/RTX 4060 at 1080p with 75% render scale, but I truck through anyway because the story is genuinely a really compelling look into subjects like prejudice and classism and the combat is extremely addicting

[@MatheusMarti]

What? On my PC with a Ryzen 5 3400G and a GTX 1060 6GB, the game ran at 60 FPS at 1080p with 100% render scale most of the time, only dropping to around 50 FPS in some areas, granted it was after they patched the demo twice

[@alext3811]

@@MatheusMarti He's using a laptop likely, because the H series are laptop chips, so thermals are worse than a desktop. I forget how Nvidia does power management on a laptop, so I can't speak to that.

[@jemandetwas1]

@@alext3811 I also used a laptop with a 1650 and a 10300H, so much lower specs, and 1080p 100% scale runs without problems at a stable 60. Maybe there are some oddities with different hardware or demo versions

[@OilersHD97]

You bought an i9 and paired it with a 4060, why?

[@kputadelol]

you sure your laptop is not using the integrated GPU?

[@dingo535]

I know there is as good as NO chance…but I would ADORE DF if they provided a small video on Gundam Breaker 4. It’s been a surprisingly big hit for Bandai-Namco thus far and has been quite well received across both critics and fans by and large. While it didn’t break any technical barriers, it does proffer pro good performance across most platforms and I believe it can reach bigger frames rates on PC as well. Regardless, I love Tom and have grown to enjoy Ollie for hunt most part when he does not randomly insert .5-1.5 second pauses between words when making certain stamens.

[@elwingy]

Japanese devs traditionally dont give a rats behind about performance and framerates. I am pretty convinced by now that these dudes cant detect framedrops in games at all. Their eyes are different. There is no other way to explain this constant mess with framerates and framepacing

[@IndestructibleBagel-r6e]

Their "slanted" vision can't detect frames over 30.

[@CrypticWritings89]

More like they know fanboys will swallow everything they make and not complain.

[@shiroihana4381]

yeah sure just like *insert racial prejudice* haha

[@Makusensu]

A chance they are not the ones who always pushed for 60 over generations. Or Nintendo may have bad influence?

[@goe74life49]

Atlus is the best no matter what they make, I know they will fix the framerate, output, and place options in the game at least I hope they do. Anyhow this is the best Atlus game out right now as Im definitely going to enjoy playing it till the end. Way to go Atlus another banger of a game 👏👏👏👏👏. Keep em coming.

[@rinas6550]

I’ve been enjoying the demo but I’m sorry I’m gonna hold off on buying til it goes on sale OR they fix the glaring visual issues.

[@Pokermand]

The graphics of the game are definitely not the best, but they were still the best for me when it came to art design and gameplay. I was able to immerse myself in the game and had fun because it was hard to explain. I'm sure the new ip's game makes such a strong impression because of the "Persona" series, but I feel like the metaphor has its own charm. I especially like the worldview. This is a really good game for me. This was the first time I've ever played a demo version of the game to the end. I had no idea the result was that this game was coming out until a few days ago, but now I'm done pre-purchasing.

[@neantibi]

Buying ps5 pro to boost Metaphor’s performance? Really guys?

[@fenbops]

They selling the pro better than Sony are bothering to do. Must be on commission.

[@spaaceoddity]

He’s not telling you to buy it. He’s just suggesting pro will likely reach a locked 60. But I’d imagine it will be getting performance patches before then to fix the console and pc versions

[@EmperorOfMan]

He never said that lol. Just said it will boost performance which it will. Did you think it would reduce performance LOL

[@neantibi]

@@spaaceoddity I get that, but this is the last type of game that I would think would benefit from the Ps5 pro’s power, considering its graphics and art style. What I mean to say is, graphical performance isn’t key to enjoying a title such as this. Just my 2c. Ps I played the demo for over 11 hours on Ps5 and it’s more than decent to play :)

[@telboy007]

Hence why it was used with the words "nuclear option".

[@osc-oldschoolclips5204]

this is the first time i’m not having any issues. 32 hours in on the demo. (I did restart once) but I haven’t had any performance issues. However i’m not one of those people that acts like the issues don’t exist because it’s not happening to me. Hopefully it’s fixed in a major way very soon.

[@SpiderLuke]

It was bad on PC, but the latest updates helped a lot regarding frame rate for me. Still very shimmery. I did notice the inconsistent framerate on PS5, though and this just solidifies my PC purchase decision.

[@fseiba6718]

If a port is bad it doesnt mattwr which platform are you playing on. Ps5 is the go to platform now cus tze performance is more cinsistent than on pc.

[@SpiderLuke]

@@fseiba6718 that's not true. I'm playing both and getting consistently around 117fps on PC. I never dip below 60. I played PS5 and got what they got 40-50fps or so. I can cap on PC and it's fine.

[@Stupid_Rabbit]

@@fseiba6718 Mean depends on your PC, Running max settings, 1440p 200% render scale and do not drop below 90FPS with my 7800xt, am using AFMF 2 though.

[@LucasVazquezI]

Beyond frame rate drops does the PC version look substantially better than the PS5 one?

[@Stupid_Rabbit]

@LucasVazquezI they fixed the frame drops in the second patch thank goodness. I do not have a ps5 however with the pc you can adjust render resolution and going above 100% is effectively a very primitive and demanding yet one of the most visually impressive froms of AA called ssaa or supersampling anti aliasing.

[@wherethegreatestplay3529]

Awesome review Oliver. I definitely noticed performance issues with the demo. I’ll still be picking this up on PS5 and playing with 120hz on. This’ll likely be the last “last gen game I play with the Pro arriving next month.

[@deang.5636]

Im glad that these developers focus more on the gameplay, story and content over highly detailed graphics and dumb stuff like ray tracing.

[@bloodyair269]

Like it or not, ray traced lighting is the future of video game visual. Lighting is what make or break the visual. We already hit the peak with graphics, now it's time to work on lighting and optimization.

[@DMPLAYER1000]

Been playing it on pc and getting a super stable 60fps at full native res at 4k. Got a 6950xt and 5800x

[@Teezy_Ty]

Japanese Developers make such awesome games, but my god they are terrible when it comes to optimising their games! It’s pretty inexcusable for this game to not be running a stable 60FPS on consoles.

[@WeeWeeJumbo]

Team Ninja’s games match their targets, most of Capcom’s games match their targets, same as Nintendo, SEGA, Bandai Namco, Studio Asobi, Arc System Works, Polyphony Digital… there’s plenty of Japanese teams who are technical wizards

[@theanimerapper6351]

​@@WeeWeeJumboI like how you listed Sega but this is a Sega game dude

[@Teezy_Ty]

@@WeeWeeJumbo Dude rise of ronin , DD2, Metaphor are the latest games from some of the studios you just mentioned. And they are all definitely not well optimised games and have performance issues. Even Elden Ring can be a bit dodgy in performance. FF7R is a blurry mess. Plenty of Japanese games released this year that have not been optimised well.

[@ZephyrK.]

The performance/optimisation of Eastern games will either be unbelievably incredible or garbage as hell 😭

[@jonathanserrata4845]

This looks like a Switch game remastered, how the hell is this not an easy 4k/60FPS on PS5?

[@artjink]

love Atlus games but man…their tech is so far behind, it‘s rather sad.

[@Hydra_X9K_Music]

I'd prefer this than a crap game with next gen graphics

[@andreletra6263]

@@Hydra_X9K_Music cool bro but a ps3 era game having performance issues on the ps5 is a problem

[@Hydra_X9K_Music]

@andreletra6263 Yeah, it's definitely something that can be improved, but it's not a game ruiner for me like it seemingly is for many people in this comment section.

[@andreletra6263]

@@Hydra_X9K_Music yeah it isnt a deal breaker for me neither but it really sad when a game that could be practically perfect isnt because of performance

[@artjink]

@@Hydra_X9K_Music Not a dealbreaker for me as well. But I just can't help but to notice its shortcomings while playing it and wishing they had decent tech, not some next-gen bleeding edge tech. I'll probably end up playing on PC at 8K30 to try to minimize distraction since it's a type of game that isn't as important to have 60fps.

[@WackoWambo]

I would die for Oliver.

[@Zoeila]

I don't care if PS4 ver is 60 fps I'm not playing a 1080p game on a 4k display

[@turnbasedtoddy7664]

I’m kind of blown away with how bad this game actually looks and runs. It’s kind of unacceptable in this day and age. I can maybe handle the blurry mess that the aliasing causes, but those frame rate dips really ruin it. I’m damn near tempted to just get the PS4 version and play it on my PS5.

[@leviathan5207]

To add insult to injury, Persona 4 golden, a PS Vita port has anti aliasing AND higher resolution textures at a lot of points. The paintings on the walls of an earlier area in Metaphors demo are lower resolution than vanilla minecraft paintings....

[@garygohmusic]

Just don't play it. It's just a reskinned Persona with nothing new to offer.

[@btarg1]

I was thinking they would use UE4/5 like with P3 Reload but this game is a massive step back graphically. Thank god the UI looks so incredible though!

[@NostraSamus]

I never thought that this game was a looker, so I couldn’t understand why this wasn’t released on switch in 30fps. Regardless, the art style is cool and works for the presentation. I think everyone is reading too much into this. Why wasn’t Elden Ring slammed for its still present performance issues? That game gets way too much credit.

[@melanp4698]

Because every point of fun is worth 30 points of lackluster performance.

[@NostraSamus]

@@melanp4698 Elden ring is not fun. The end.

[@melanp4698]

@@NostraSamus Elden Ring is not fun.. for you.

[@NostraSamus]

@@melanp4698 Circle strafing, dodge, punish, repeat. Thats as far as From Software goes as far as gameplay loop. They’re not fun games. Devil May Cry 5 is fun. Elden ring is not.

[@melanp4698]

@@NostraSamus All i heard was: "Bla bla bla in my opinion bla bla bla."

[@astrojeet]

I used the Special K fix while playing the demo and my frames went from 50 in some areas to 90-100 and almost 200 in some, the engine is really outdated and it is insane that Special K fixes some of the performance issues in just a day. Doesn't fix the AA though, it's still bad. Atlus really needs some help in the tech department lol, they make great games, but so incompetent in technical areas.

[@philliptinner6576]

When are we getting 40fps modes standard and why tf don't devs get that it's something players would want??

[@thelawyer95]

Whenever 120 Hz TVs are considered mainstream, which today it isn't.

[@leonfrancis3418]

VRR going mainstream eliminates the need for them.

[@PositronCannon]

@@leonfrancis3418 VRR on PS5 doesn't support framerates under 48 fps, so it's not a substitute for a 40 fps mode.

[@leonfrancis3418]

@@PositronCannon Correct, but that's Playstation's limitation. That's not a limitation of the industry or many other platforms people play on. I know it's hard to accept for a lot of gamers, but games are made with more than Playstation in mind, even Playstation exclusives, as we can see from their latest arrival on PC. 40 FPS was largely a crutch, and if you noticed, even Sony's titles stopped coming out with it once they began to support VRR a year and a half after launch. They'll probably support it even less with a pro console that's meant to target 60/120 FPS and using AI upscaling.

[@futurafrlx8874]

This is the type of game I expected John to talk about. I wonder what he’s up to.