Gold Experience Requiem vs Made in Heaven | Who Would Win?

METAs - Gold Experience Requiem vs Made in Heaven is a fight OLDER THEN ME, so I thought I would give my take on this 20-year-old "Who Would Win" match enjoy?
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[@Diabrolo]

It depends on if Giorno's theme starts playting first or if Pucci starts to count the prime numbers first.

[@jaydenborjas4763]

You're entirely right...

[@kashvkane7717]

nah we all know the moment anyone stands up to that nigga pucci he starts counting

[@doremysheep7864]

They start at the same time-

[@jaydenborjas4763]

@@doremysheep7864 I never thought of that. Now I'm scared. It's Finna be like a chidori-rasengan clash type stuff

[@shiyobui]

Valid

[@thomaswellerton3783]

I would argue that Giorno breaking free from fate is more confirmed than not, not only because of it breaking fate in the fight against King Crimson, and the entirety of part 5 being about breaking fate but because it was stated that all DIO's sons were FATED to meet and help Pucci achieve heaven, Giorno didn't even show up to Cape Canaveral, proving that he broke that fate, he isn't forced to do anything by fate anymore

[@jonathonwild7350]

Good take I like the part 6 observation

[@davizi6146]

He literally does not have to listen to fate that's crazy

[@FugoPN]

W take

[@theunknownsaiyan5262]

Giorno litteraly could say NO to fate that's crazy

[@riin426]

@@Gamfluent where does it say it’s confirmed that he was in Florida? It said “maybe he’s somewhere in Florida”.. MAYBEEEEE

[@chiiyon]

I love GER versus battles because it's either "no diffs tough luck bud" or a 10k words analysis of his ability, lore, statements and how it could/would react or interact with the opponent lol

[@liricopetanco6257]

Can't pucchi just hit giorno with the things around him (because is not an atack against him is just objects moving at high speed so there is no atacking intencion to undo) or just reset the universe to before he gets the arrow and just slap him?

[@chiiyon]

@@liricopetanco6257 Pucci can't do that, GER ability controls fate itself to never allow Giorno to be harmed it's a stand that transcends fate after all, even if there is no "intention" of attacking him they' would still hurt Giorno so GER wouldn't let that happen (and its not like GioGio cant use GER as a stand to defend himself lol). Plus Universe Reset doesn't reset anyone to a previous point in time that is not how its ability work, if it was how it worked why didn't Pucci do that against Emporio and reset'd the universe before he had the Weather Report disc?

[@liricopetanco6257]

@@chiiyon because he didn't knew that he had the disc, also he reset the world to the time where jotaro (Qtaro) visited jolyne not to the same day that he got the time acceleration.

[@chiiyon]

@@liricopetanco6257 fair, I forgot that he reseted back to that day, but my point still stands that he can't reset someone to a earlier point in their life, that's why Emporio still had the disc even tho he shouldn't have it if back then

[@jakewalsh1029]

Ikki kurogane solos because he’s a desperado

[@michaelli7289]

“IVE FINALLY ACHIEVED HEAVEN” “But what if you never had”

[@SuperDababy2]

"what if you never got stabbed by the arrow?"

[@Weirdgtag]

Ger: Nuh uh

[@bolts8152]

​@@Weirdgtagpucci: tf you mean "nuh uh"

[@PROfessionaltrollers]

Giorno:"yeah you didn't never will, never have" Pucci: "tf do you mean I- WHAT THE FU- WHERE DID MAIDEN HEAVEN GO?"

[@hardcoregaymer706]

Not the way his stand works tho

[@dairyqing]

I think Araki saying a Requiem stand has dominion over living souls is what proves GER does have fate manipulation and is ‘above’ it in a way. It can literally rewrite the value of anything that happens back to 0, never happening. To me that’s a pretty clear indication of this particular Requiem stand’s ability of “ruling over souls” as Giorno can completely alter someone’s fate that faces him.

[@Juno__Music]

I guess the 0s are to represent binary, and how everything that happens in the world is either a 0 (it doesn’t occur) or a 1 (it occurs) and Requiem stands can change that value like a switch turning on and off. Scary.

[@theblackenedking9858]

That... Yeah. That was my exact take. You took the words right outta my mouth.

[@games-wz7sz]

I believe it becomes a reverse Wonder of you, you can only kill him by making it completely impossible to trace back to you. You would have to give giorno a calamity. Possible, but not in most fights

[@purplehaze2358]

Something I've noted: It's never actually been stated if there's a size limit to how big or, relevantly to my hypothetical, small the organisms GE and GE:R make can be. So, in theory, Giorno could make an obscene number of either microscopic or semi-microscopic organisms, evenly space them over his entire body, and effectively have an invisible suit of attack-reversing body armor.

[@Champeonic]

This theory is broken. Man could just make the ultimate armor of lifeforms.😂

[@blacksheep6415]

Giorno only used this ability once so I doubt it and he would use it and for the ability to activate he would have to predict where Pucci would attack him

[@purplehaze2358]

@@blacksheep6415 If it covers his entire body, he wouldn't need to predict anything because, no matter where Pucci attacks, there'll be an organism (or, more likely, many organisms considering this is the microscopic level we're talking about here) there.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

Omg that's something I didn't even think about, that's busted

[@purplehaze4942]

he made regularly sized organisms, but if he could, that would be fun

[@fedecalace8632]

This is my final opinion on this issue: If Pucci fights Giorno directly he will lose because GER will nullify everything, if he plays smart and just accelerates time without interacting with giorno , he will eventually win.

[@HORRIOR1]

Which is basically what happened in Part 6. While GER is more powerful it had no way of crossing the Atlantic ocean in the amount of time it took for Pucci to reset the universe.

[@zakariyaz8233]

@@HORRIOR1 not if it can manipulate fate which surpasses time. If Pucci's ONLY power was to speed up time, Giorno would have no problem RTZ-ing his ass and stopping Pucci, by walking along to wherever he is. Assuming RTZ can stop a FATED death through time manip (King Crimson), why shouldn't the same apply to the DEATH OF THE UNIVERSE, via supposedly 'time manip' (Made in Heaven)? Either, GER is not automatic and thus can only activate if GER realizes what's going on since the stand has a conscious of its own (which would nerf it a lot, since most assume GER's RTZ activates beyond time, fate, and any other force in the world when in reality its limited to its own perception), OR MiH just simply exists beyond the realm of time and even fate; and it actually does, this is why Araki spends the whole part detailing why GRAVITY is the force that causes time to move, brings stand users together, and is beyond fate itself. In the OG-verse, GRAVITY manipulation is almost like controlling the narrative of a story. And narratively, achieving heaven is leaving one world and achieving the ultimate/perfect, higher world above. It would be the end to one story and the continuation of another. It's exactly why Stone Ocean ENDS the original story and the next part starts a new one. If my narrative argument is stupid and fuck stories lol, then I guess the conclusion is Giorno just didn't want to help out when he could easily RTZ the end of the universe.

[@catodes1295]

​​@@zakariyaz8233 He can't just activate RTZ on command lol. Unless in the new universe, Giorno somehow dies, then that's when RTZ will activate to stop universe reset. If Pucci tries to speed blitz him, it will get RTZd. GER is the ultimate defence Stand, even better than Love Train, though we don't know how a Perfected Infinite Spin shot and a Go Beyond bubble would react to RTZ

[@MrPlata-ii2kw]

out of 10 million universes he wont attack ger.

[@cantbelieve5231]

@@catodes1295go beyond would hit because it is meant to be an illogical attack that return to zero won’t comprehend go beyonds nonexistence

[@SkullTheLegless]

Just to note for theory crafting: if giorno went all the way to florida nobody could have taken him there. That’s because it’s not delivery, it’s digiorno.

[@eW91dHViZSBpcyBjZW5zb3JzaGlw]

based

[@animelad8178]

Fortnite

[@strikermodel]

Bruh lol

[@imanolgamez3299]

I honestly think that made in heaven's universal reset not only does not affect giorno negatively, if it is completed, it kind of benefits him.

[@hellothere4964]

nah nah imagine this, golden wind but giorno has ger from the start and remembers everything

[@rainbowprism6242]

For the last time, Jodio is not an upgrade to Giorno.

[@hellothere4964]

@@rainbowprism6242 when did anyone say that

[@c1llacy8n]

​@@rainbowprism6242 bro what

[@dagaminghamster2290]

​@@rainbowprism6242 nobody said that, but ok

[@larhyperhair]

My theory has always been, GER has just one ability, Return to Zero. And the reason Diavolo got his fate worse than death is because he erased the time he would have been sent back to. In trying to ensure his fate by taking a shortcut, he seals it by being put in a time that no longer exists. And since GER killed him, his soul is just trapped in fucked up purgatory forever

[@thunderspark1536]

Not a bad idea.

[@janterri3539]

But he makes life forms with GER too, with enhanced strength compared to before. It’s not his only ability, he can still make life.

[@negative8160]

Yeah I guess that makes sense. I didn’t think about it like that tbh. I always just assumed because he’s returning his death to zero, you can’t bring someone back to life with a stand, so he can’t return it to zero. So it loops cause it keeps trying to bring him back, but he keeps dying cause you can’t.

[@Fancysaurus]

Nah I think it's an evolution of his overdrive ability but instead of making a living thing go into overdrive it makes stands go into overdrive to deleterious effects. It adds on to his existing ability and it also adds a nice narrative touch that Diavalo was the one who put himself in that infinite death prison.

[@nick-cepticon782]

Super awesome theory!

[@XertiqWasTaken]

This match up has always been discussed between me and my friends for years, I trust that META's will be able to fully end the debate with the feats and statements mentioned

[@METAsMETAs]

NAW IM NOT THAT GOOD thanks for the hype

[@theblueprint2001]

Its simple as which stand counters which. Ger can not counter time acceleration so its a wrap. Thats literally it.

[@Sandy-fz7oq]

​@@METAsMETAs Good now make Soft and wet go beyond vs GER

[@justinjunkatigbak4576]

@@theblueprint2001 Well, it was shown that GER only passively uses RTZ everytime he is attacked and we all know that Pucci's Time Acceleration doesn't affect living organisms and we all know that when Diavolo attacked Giorno, everything went back to before Diavolo even moved so there is a slim possibility that Pucci would be defeated. Even then, it's slim.

[@Noxthesergal]

@@METAsMETAs I think that maybe due to its sentience and the amount of power it gained ger didn’t see diavolo as enough of a threat to use more strength than it did against him why waste the energy it’s not like he was in any sort of danger throughout the fight

[@urameshitrev1851]

While Made in Heaven is an incredibly busted stand, GER has been shown to counter Time Manipulation entirely, so unless Made In Heaven can do something like trick Giorno and get his friends into a Hostage Situation or something, Giorno Wins.

[@josephrogers3666]

But the whole get a hostage would be reverted?

[@urameshitrev1851]

@@josephrogers3666 Well it seems GER only affects Giorno himself, no clue if it applies to his friends if they got directly attacked. We saw Mista get affected but likely because he fired Bullets just as Diavolo erased time.

[@vickerfinal]

I dont think GER would do anything to Made in Heaven since its not even targeting anything. If that wasn't the case, then the whole events Stone Ocean woulnd't make sense because Giorno would just had cancelled it during the events of Stone Ocean.

[@The_Rareuser]

Diavolos time erase was only reverted after diavolo STRUCK GIORNO. Giornos rtz ability is only limited to if the user is harmed or not. Time acceleration doesn't affect living beings other than pucci, which literally means that ger wont be able to revert time acceleration but will only be reverting the attacks made by pucci. Giorno would not be able to hit pucci. Pucci would keep blitzing giorno until requiem runs out and ger reverts back into ge.

[@ynam.2622]

@@The_Rareuserequiem doesn’t just run out though. It keeps going until it’s mission is complete, it gets killed, or the user snatches the arrow from it. As was seen every time CR showed up. Also Im pretty sure it has to the user to take the arrow back because during the first part of the CR fight, CR was chilling without the arrow in its hand for most of the fight, it even got passed around a bunch, and was only undone when shown in the flashback when Polnareff himself took the arrow away from it.

[@thegreatgamingkid8252]

I’m curious on why people look at infinite death as a separate ability. I’m pretty sure it’s simply a passive effect from RTZ, returning the fate of a person’s death to 0 as if it never happened, continuously, pretty much forever.

[@SuperDababy2]

it can also be looked at as Giorno's life ability from GE but taken to another level from the arrow (but I agree that it's probably just RTZ)

[@blacksheep6415]

Chariot Requiem wasn’t fused with the arrow it was separate from its body it literally held it in its hand. The stand also ignored polnoriff and behaved kind like an automatic or independent stand so maybe for rules for Silver Chariot and it’s requiem are different from Golden Experience Requiem .

[@johnlucas2838]

If Polnareff had control over Chariot Requiem, it would have been called Silver Chariot Requiem. Chariot Requiem kind of explains itself, it lost its owner while becoming a Requiem stand so in a way it's incomplete. Its ability feels incomplete too yet it is focused in the desire or wish of Polnareff to keep the arrow away from Diavolo. I also doubt a stand loses its Requiem form unless the arrow is taken away when it was transforming and doesn't need the arrow to maintain it.

[@SuperDababy2]

@@johnlucas2838 the narrative also leans towards Giorno "having the arrow, the arrow is Giorno's forever!" - Trish

[@MagmaMKII]

SC Requiem didn't revert back because Polnareff died and it went berserk. Remember his flashback when it turned into Requiem for the first time, it reverted back as soon as Polnareff took the arrow from it.

[@thegreatgamingkid8252]

It only had a prick on the finger tho and hadn’t fully transformed because Polnareff ripped it from his hand.

[@pouyagreen97]

It's stated that GER exist beyond time so basically it's always a NAH I'D WIN situation against him

[@Kira22558]

Not beyond time, He's above all stands according to official artbook.

[@browdoe]

Great video, i would also add, that yes, nobody in pucciverse can change fate, but it's everyone except Pucci himself, he says it himself in manga, Pucci is the only one after uni reset who can manipulate already decided fate. That's why nobody in prison (Qtaro, guards, etc.) could do anything against Pucci who was just tossing them aside, they were powerless against fate. Meaning, that Pucci can't be beaten by anyone after universe reset, unless the person against him has fate manipulation of some kind (GER, WoU, Love train) or just exists outside of fate and this world (S&W: Go Beyond). Anyone else has like 0 chance, you'd need to kill Pucci before universe reset, which is pretty damn hard considering his speed can get up to infinity. The only reason he lost against Emporio is that he accidentally changed fate that made Emporio get the disc. Also i think that with how quickly can Pucci accelerate universe relies purely on his experience with Made in Heaven, like Jotaro with timestopping. Cuz we've seen how quickly he's done against Emporio compared to the first time against SO gang and that was only for the 2nd time.

[@blacknight1641]

Qtaro.

[@orangeman3505]

Qtaro

[@saifkhan-kc9ec]

i think u interpreted the ability of made in heaven and over estimated like it isnt that no one can do anything against pucci its just the fact that they dont have a stand and alr know their fate while pucci is the only one not knowing it and is more dangered to thinks that can occur for example him dying to weather report was due to him not knowing what would happen while emporio knew what would happen

[@captainb.mccrea5480]

@@saifkhan-kc9ec Pucci knew what Emporio would do, Emporio didn’t. Emporio was only able to do anything since Pucci accidentally changed fate

[@saifkhan-kc9ec]

@@captainb.mccrea5480 my man didnt pay attention or smth like everyone except pucci knew what was gonna happen to them

[@wonderincgames]

It doesn't matter how fast Pucci is, GER can put his actions into 0.

[@funnybones98]

yeah but hehe he fast boi

[@MunchyMochi621]

Ger has to be able to react to the attack to activate Return to Zero.

[@matthewrangel9465]

I feel like the best naritive would be as giorno does like the dio pose a single tear passes down puchis face as he believes that dio in a way has achieved heaven though his son and is happy to have his life ended by someone who truly embodies the things he admired so much about dio.

[@highwaytoheaven99]

GER ability isn't a time/space manipulation, its the manipulation of an abstract concept, his "return to zero the willpower" is basically an ability to "nullify cause and effect". In short, he can erase/nullify any action or event, as if it never happened. He did that when he "nullified" the time skip of King Crimson that Diavollo foresaw would end in Giorno's death, and he also did that with Diavollo's death. GER nullified the very event of Diavollo's death, making it so he cannot die. But Fate is a powerful force, one that is talked about aplenty in part 5, and Diavollo's Fate was to die. So every time the universe itself conspires to make Diavollo die, in true Final Destination way, but when he was supposed to STAY dead, GER's ability activates and erases the event, as if Diavollo didn't die at all. Then Final Destination comes in and kills him again, rinse and repeat. Stands with "abstract" powers became frequent in Jojo, see Wonder of U and the abstract concept for "calamity" for another great example. So yeah, Made in Heaven has no power over "causality", he doesn't stand a chance. The battle would go like: Pucci: "Behold! Even your stand cannot follow my ever growing speed! Made in Haven just punched a hole in GER's chest!" GER: "No you didn't" Pucci: "No I didn't, wait what??"

[@msaag5490]

This is pretty much my view on the whole fight. Made in Heaven in time acceleration throws a single punch, and GER just negates that entire event. Then it's a matter of GER rushing down Pucci and sending him to infinite death. Scenario 3 was way too disingenuous towards GER. I think people view RTZ as a time-space ability because of how it's portrayed rewinding time until a certain point. But I think the genuine interpretation is similar to how Diavolo's time skip looks, you punch GER or Giorno and before your mind recognizes it you're back to a state when you didn't move to launch an attack in the first place, that fated future is never achieved and you get stand rushed to death by GER.

[@QuasiGame0]

The power of GER puts it among many of the strongest fictional characters

[@RookieREX]

except the ones that surpass their media or reality or dimension or meta-ness

[@rawbdawg6447]

And yet there’s still plenty that would slap the shit out of GER

[@setabkhan3081]

@@rawbdawg6447 example? ( I can't think of one)

[@purplehaze4942]

​@@rawbdawg6447 in ap sure, but you would never get past rtz tho

[@divider928]

​@@setabkhan3081 Misfit King. He basically ignore nature of law

[@eM-Riot]

Btw, Chariot Requiem also has a copy of the arrow on its neck, so we can assume that the arrow on GER's forehead is also not the same arrow So the time limit/"if the arrow is take away" limit doesn't work

[@Iyokuu]

I love these types of videos because no matter what, GER fans will always say "GER no diffs" or something along those lines and then I get hyped with popcorn in the back. Solid video, Meta!

[@gargamella69]

GER fans? WTF is that? + I didnt watched the vid. but from ur comment i suppose that he said MIH would win, i cant immagine how can MIH win against GER

[@AuroraBoost]

​@@gargamella69 It cannot. Only WoU has a chance

[@gargamella69]

@@AuroraBoost neither wou, wou is probably one of the weakest jojo villain

[@AuroraBoost]

@@gargamella69 It can beat GER. It's not directly attacking anyone. The universe just follows the direction of casualty and disaster towards the target.

[@aliastheabnormal]

@@AuroraBoost That's also how i think Pucci would win. By just avoiding Giorno until the universe resets.

[@wizardly9211]

I think it's very important to know that RTZ doesn't *just* happen when someone attacks. Time erase isn't a direct attack, much like time acceleration. It's just a vehicle used to execute an attack, and RTZ still countered it.

[@legs9086]

Well no because the point of "zero" GER set just happen to be before the time erase so time erase just revert to then

[@lordquaz7154]

Something a lot of people forget is that Diavolo can't harm anyone during time erasure, only after, and that's why GER was able to revert Diavolo's attack. In reality we don't know if GER can even function in time stop or not.

[@Jsipki265]

@@lordquaz7154 you know except the showcase of epitaph showing diavolo killing giorno

[@lordquaz7154]

@@Jsipki265 That's a manipulation of Giorno's fate. One dose not have anything to do with the other.

[@davizi6146]

​@@lordquaz7154 By speed scaling he'd be able to move in stopped time.

[@suezuccati304]

I think the death loop is justified by GER's stated powers. They make an action be erased of consequences, so, since Diavolo was killed by GER, Giorno can just remove his death from the equation, which would force him into infinite death scenarios where the result would never come through.

[@yoshikagekira1863]

Made in heaven gets clapped

[@ataceyhan2560]

I mean i guesd but like still this debate i think has to be answeered by the creator of jojo

[@firetaila1108]

Wait

[@firetaila1108]

How was this made before the vid

[@CobbleBompster]

How will he get clapped if he can’t RTZ the universe resetting? It’s not harming him, so it’s not gonna stop, even if it is, it will only stop the THING that is harming him, not the acceleration of time, and even if Giorno wins, saying he gets “clapped” is just stupid.

[@rome9984]

@@CobbleBompster gold experience shares giorno’s beliefs and would nullify anything that Giorno would want to nullify. It never was stated that it had to be an attack that would physically harm him.

[@jonathanrhodes4547]

Win Scenarios: 1. The Ultimate Stand. (12:57) 2. The Requiem Power. (14:12) 3. GER just doesn't have that Dog in them. (15:43) 4. GER has a Time Limit. (18:43) 5. The Narrative Scenario. (20:10) METAs' preference Scenario 2 & 5.

[@MiriNameThief]

Giorno should just wrap himself with frogs for the damage reflection lol

[@sonlen796]

My argument that GER is above MiH not so much based on stats but thematically what the characters represent, specifically the idea that fate>everything else, including time. Each part deals with the idea of accepting your possible fate and doing what you can with knowing what you have to do. Part 1 deals with the idea of accepting your fate (Jonathan) vs rejecting it (Dio). Jonathan does what he can to change what he can, but once Dio becomes a threat he accepts that his destiny is to stop Dio (which eventually leads to him accepting his own death so his family can survive). Dio believes that the destiny of humans is to eventually wither and die, while he has higher ambitions. Becoming a vampire means not even the passage of time will stop him, so he thus will have the power to decide his fate. He believes his destiny is to wipe out the Joestars. When Jonathan sacrifices himself, he accepts his fate in that scenario while Dio does not. Dio ascended past humanity and even the effects of time but he still lost to fate. In Part 2, Erina and Speedwagon specifically worry that Joseph will suffer the same fate as his father and grandfather, believing that there is something of a curse on the family that the men die tragically. Joseph rejects the idea at first, but when it becomes clear to him that it is his fate to step up and be the hero, he accepts his fate and even accepts the seeming eventuality of his own death after defeating Kars (he doesn't die of course but that's beside the point). Kars is already immortal, but he believed in achieving godlike status through dominion of life. In the end, his fate was to be symbolically defeated by the earth itself. In Part 3, Joseph has clearly accepted the idea that the Joestars are fated to stop Dio, and while Jotaro initially has trouble accepting the idea he does come to accept it as Joseph did before him. And they expand this idea to the other Crusaders as well, as they all come to accept that while they may not come back from this mission, they will do what they have to (I would say in particular Polnareff and Kakyoin). Meanwhile Dio's superiority complex has grown, as he not only is immune to the effects of time, he can now control it. He believes the World's speed and power are unmatched, and (thanks to the flashbacks in Part 6) he pursues full control over time as a way of deciding fate. But fate brings to him the person who can not only match him in physical power but can match his ability as well. Part 4 deals with a lot of these ideas as well but it's not as relevant to this case. Part 5 might be the part most heavily themed around fate, but I won't discuss in detail. I would make the argument for Diavolo that Epitaph (I think that's what the precog was called) is a fate-based ability, but Time Skip is obviously a time-based one. Diavolo sees what is fated to happen and uses time manipulation to achieve that fate and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it from happening. GER is basically saying to KC that time is subservient to fate, and GER is the arbiter of fate. In Part 6, Pucci's motivation is a continuation of Dio's. Achieve complete control over time, which he does. He believes his fate is to finish Dio's dream, which based on his conversation with Emporio he failed to do. Like Dio, he believed his control over time would allow him to decide fate. And like Dio, he also died despite his power. Emporio even says that it was a team effort from a group who all accepted that fate was out of their hands but decided to do what they knew they had to do. The weird thing is that discussing stand stats almost doesn't matter in my opinion, because thematically it's about Time vs Fate and what wins out in the end. And I'd argue that thematically speaking the answer is fate. Every JoJo/JoBro comes to accept the possibility that their fate is out of their control, but rather than see it as a reason to be depressed decide to not worry about their ultimate end and just do what they need to do, and that to me is one of the most inspiring messages in JJBA.

[@garglingwater5599]

yeah i was thinking the exact same thing. thinking about it symbolically, giorno & ger are meant to represent god imho. i’m thinking about it in the sense that giorno is the judge and jury while ger is the executor. when we think about it, pucci is striving to achieve greatness that ger has already transcended twelve times over. that’s my take anyway

[@FPLester]

very interesting video! i do have some notes, though. first off, this is just a personal headcanon/theory of mine, but it involves ger's actual stats. as we all know, ger has a "?" in every category, which is often assumed to be either infinite or immeasurable. my take however is that ger, being a requiem stand, has it's stats change depending on who opposes it. similar to how chariot requiem functioned, it would make more sense for ger to share a user with both giorno and the opponent (if that makes any sense) this is how ger could openly speak and interact with diavolo during rtz while giorno couldn't. on top of that, if this were true then it's *also* likely that similar to what you stated, it could match or even *surpass* the stats of any stand it engages. of course, i don't have all that much evidence to back this up, so it's most likely not true. i also have some comments about the whole "god" statements i personally believe ger isn't made to defeat gods, but to *become* one. this is really just me looking too far into details, but it's funny when you think about it. so we're all familiar with the fact that dio, which translates into god, is giorno's father. thus making giorno the figurative son of god. then, this son of god fights a man whose name literally means "devil" thus leading me to the conclusion the ger isn't the ability to surpass gods, but to literally become a god. of course, this is all just a massive coincidence.

[@Just_Pradyun]

great take, especially the first part talking about him being as strong as he needs for who he opposes. probably the best take i have seen

[@slicerva34]

I think my take on it is that as long as Pucci doesn't directly attack Giorno, Requiem won't activate. However, the second Pucci has any ill will towards Giorno it's over for him. There is also the argument that Giorno might be able to force Requiem's ability to activate, and if that's the case Pucci gets wiped. I see more scenarios where Pucci loses than where he wins. It could be interesting to think of like Pucci is on the backfoot actively trying to accelerate the world while Giorno is chasing after him trying to stop the clock. The issue is, once the universe is reset, the only thing Pucci can do is keep running, since MIH loses to GER more often than not. So Pucci needs to constantly be accelerating to new universes to get away, but Giorno always pursues. It becomes a matter of when Giorno catches up, not if.

[@SuperDababy2]

Giorno could also just like, revert the action of getting the green baby to zero. He could literally just make MiH turn back into WS (this is assuming Giorno can use GER normally, and really like why wouldn't he?)

[@leonarex5540]

​@@SuperDababy2 It wouldn't work because if he already reset the universe it basically gives him mih from the start

[@leonarex5540]

Giorno will eventually catch up because Made In Heaven gives everyone except Pucci knowledge of their fate. For Pucci to avoid Giorno indefinitely he would need unlimited escape options. This fight being more easy for Giorno if you do think he was in Florida at the time.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

Man thanks for the vid, I have been waiting for this. I almost wanted to see King Crimson face GE:R but then I remembered, oh right we already saw it.

[@NikkiG1134]

Pucci being put in an infinite death loop is definitely poetic

[@AgentChick]

The real question here is, did Diavolo manage to escape the death loop after Pucci reset the universe?

[@JolyneVR]

it never happened

[@keirj2124]

Great video as always love these types of discussions.

[@shanethompson5262]

Great video, METAs! If I may add to this, I'd like to bring up something not talked about in not just this fight but in discussion about Pucci and Part 6 Pucci was given the "Requiem" arrow by Dio and gained Whitesnake after being pierced. Not only does it prove that Arrow can give stands, like the previous arrows, but this means Pucci was chosen by that arrow. Giorno, Diavolo, even Polnareff had gotten it, yet only 2 gained a Requeim stand, but only SC was "chosen" after being stabbed. Giorno used GE's ability to keep the arrow and evolve into GER. Pucci was chosen by the arrow, so technically speaking, WS is a Requiem! Not only that, add to its fusion with Green Baby, whose shrink ability might have given WS its ability to make smaller discs to remove Pucci's eyesight, C-Moon its green color, and its continued evolution into Made In Heaven. If Pucci was chosen once, who's to say it wouldn't choose him again? That arrow has its own will (like the other arrows [Part 4, Bites the Dust Arc]), as proven by it piercing Pucci and leaving him to return to Egypt (unless Dio just took it back, or it gravitated towards Dio), only to be found by Polnareff after Dio's death. Ironically, Dio's son would be the only one to stop his Heaven plan (Outside of Emporio), and Dio probably knew this through Jonathan's stand (which seemingly could foretell the future through photos and TV like Hermit Purple, but can't see into an Alternate future [Again, Emporio]), and Dio gave Pucci the arrow in the first place. Also, why did Dio not use that arrow on himself? Maybe he tried but wasn't worthy. Maybe JoJo's stand showed Dio he had to destroy The World to go the Heaven, but only after he found a "friend" to give the arrow to and be reborn as the "Stairway to Heaven." Pucci gets the stand to go to Heaven, it returns to Egypt to be found by Polnareff, he and Giorno stop Diavolo from gaining it, and all while staying a stone's throw of an ocean away. That arrow was destined to enter the lives of these men but also keep them from gravitating towards one another, like all stand users. All that said, I feel the only chance MIH could win, regardless if GER is activated with or without the arrow, would be to be pierced by that arrow and become Made in Heaven Requiem. What its powers would be, that (much like all these scenarios [including my own]) is up to interpretation, but it could have the potential to beat even Gold Experience Requiem, and become the "True Ultimate Stand". PHEW! I didn't mean to type or so much at first, but I had to get this out, and the words wouldn't stop flowing! TL;DR version: If MIH goes Requiem, it might have a chance against GER.

[@Super_Saiyan_Rainbow]

Me personally, I view time erasure as a greater feat than time acceleration. I think with GER being to easily manipulate time erasure, he can easily revert time acceleration. To me clear, I think it's erasure, not skip.

[@datboy038]

Yeah it’s time erasure but it is DEFINITELY not a greater feat than time acceleration which can last indefinitely.

[@Super_Saiyan_Rainbow]

@@datboy038 well maybe. I guess it’s whether you count the time limit as more or less important. Erasure > Acceleration, but infinite > 10s. Shorter but better feat or longer but weaker feat idk

[@sarimchaudhry102]

Erasure sounds really powerful but it’s not. All diavolo is doing is moving outside of fate. He isn’t doing anything to time. Time is moving just like it would have with or without him.

[@tsm784]

Imagine if Giorno created something extremely short lived , like a mayfly, out of an inanimate object. How would that interact with Pucci’s time accel? Normally it doesn’t affect living things but would TA affect it since it was originally inanimate? And would the aging count as damage reflection? Anyway, I think Pucci has a better chance at defeating Giorno using WS.

[@monkeydluffy1683]

I waited so long for this vid 🔥

[@TheRibbonFighter]

Thank you, finally got to see some other arguments I didn't know about.

[@PimguOPM]

So, the thing is that king crimson makes himself the exception to fate, GER reverted his abilities, thus also breaking out of fate and being above it, thus MIH could probably not do anything and would just kinda sit in the infinite death loop

[@user-zr7cm3ni3s]

But aren’t heaven stands immune to most hax ?

[@MsGj_Edits]

@@user-zr7cm3ni3sthere’s only been 1 heaven stand that’s canon, when was that shown?

[@user-zr7cm3ni3s]

@@MsGj_Edits GER removes effect but quite obviously cannot reset the universe to its original also ger requires reaction time to be used, so even without hax invulnerability mih speed blitzes

[@user-zr7cm3ni3s]

@@MsGj_Edits cmoon was able to move in timestop however it seems this ability was lost when MIH came into existence. If this is the case it appears that the reason TWOH is timestop resistant is simply due to tw’s ability thus time scales over ger, proving MIH being able to speed time up and being a heaven stand means close to reality entirety manipulation, it might be immune to ger. However one may make the point that I used evidence from a game with many qols and nerfs or buffs but I assume cutscenes remain lore accurate

[@MsGj_Edits]

@@user-zr7cm3ni3s I said canon.

[@Quacktum]

Ok we need a tusk act 4 video because I am very confused. If Tusk broke through love train which surpasses all timelines ( of an infinite amount ) and redirects all misfortune with ease, then how can he not break through time stop? Perhaps he could but Johnny couldn’t give it orders while time is stopped? Or, did Johnny just decide not to? Another thing is, how could the infinite nails not move through time stop! Like they still spin but they couldn’t move. It doesn’t make any sense 😢.

[@jose.g6771]

Yeah, Johnny should have won that battle

[@sracasmic9543]

Johnny couldn't give orders to tusk cause he can't even feel time stop because he isn't infinite himself tusk moves by itself subconsciously in time stop

[@Quacktum]

@@sracasmic9543 I guess that makes some sense

[@Quacktum]

@@sracasmic9543 Doesn’t that mean he could have commanded tusk to attack Diego as soon as he gets close in time stop?

[@sracasmic9543]

@[ Quantum ] tusk would attack Diego but not on jonnys command but not very well since it's movement is hindered in stoped time

[@manupm9161]

1:06 I'm 20 and you just made feel old, man 🧓 Great video btw

[@emaster9663]

My personal take from what I’ve learned, is that the reason Giorno couldn’t have stopped the acceleration of time is due to the fact that he needs to be attacked by the attacker to return that attack to 0. If Pucci and Giorno are in a 1 on 1 fight to the death situation tho, Giorno could win due to just being able to stop all of made in heavens attacks along with the acceleration of time.

[@theblueprint2001]

Thank you. Im sick of JoJo youtubers tryna powerscale shit off of feats and bs like that. “Scales to an ap of blah blah blah”. All that matters is the abilities and how they work. Ger needs and attack, it activated when Diavolo tried to punch GER. MIH can accelerate time to the universe reset. In the new universe he is the only one who can change fate and the only if he messes up like he did with Emporio will he lose

[@datboy038]

@@theblueprint2001 absolutely. Idk why people sleep on post reset pucci that motherfucker got literal *divine* status. He can change fate

[@danielj3277]

didnt giorno loes the requiem stand at the end unless he use arrow again

[@theblueprint2001]

@@datboy038 its called misconceptions. My biggest issue with the JJBA fanbase is how much they lie to each other and believe it. Same reason “araki forgot” moments are so believed

[@theblueprint2001]

@@danielj3277 Ummm we arent sure. I would assume so because the arrow disappeared and reappeared after GER deactivated but we dont have proof either way…

[@LunarianRhapsody]

I feel like the thing we can all learn from this video is that Pucci is Super Underrated in terms of VS Battles. He's ALOT stronger then most people see him as, both in-universe & crossverse wise.

[@SuperDababy2]

not really, MiH is weaker than both Requiem stands, possibly King Crimson, Love Train, The World (literally the end of part 6 fight but Jotaro gets MORE time stop and a very slightly stronger and faster Star Platinum), Wonder of U, mayyyyyybe Soft and Wet, possssssiblyyyyyy Tusk, and The World Over Heaven (even if it isn't canon).

[@CurseOxuin]

Yet he's defeated by a kid with regular toxin manipulation while using a stand that said kid just got lul.

[@Wattson19]

​@@SuperDababy2 King Crimson and The World ARE NOT stronger than MiH at all.

[@mortsartstudio9403]

I believe Giorno can beat Pucci, but if Giorno came back during the Made In Heaven fight, then Pucci would win. My reasoning is that he wouldn't try to kill Giorno because he's a son of DIO. And whilst the ability of RTZ can still beat Pucci, I think that if Pucci were to attack Giorno the way he attacked the other Joestars, then he'd be returned to zero back into hiding or too far away from Giorno. He'd probably throw knives or an object at him in order not to risk anything. All it takes is for Pucci to survive 1 RTZ and thats it for the Joestars. Once Pucci knows that he shouldn't hit Giorno, he can literally just ignore him and deal with the others. In this fight, Giornos life forms and other abilities are completely useless as the life forms aren't fast and the healing is just too slow to be effective. Once the new universe is reached, Giorno ends up back in Italy as the Emporio vs Pucci fight happens. If this happens then Emporio would probably still win unless Jolyne entrusts Giorno with the disc instead of Emporio (because hes invunerable) and as such Emporio is killed and Giorno is too far to help. Sure Giorno could come back to fight Pucci before the time acceleration but Pucci can just run away from him and refuse to fight. Sure Pucci can't kill Giorno but he'll also never lose to Giorno unless he gets unlucky.

[@dagaminghamster2290]

I actually kinda agree with this except for one potential part which is purely head-canon, but stay with me for a second. So Made in Heaven speeds up time and stuff like that even shortening time stop. So what if it sped up RTZ?

[@SuperDababy2]

@@dagaminghamster2290 bro, if he sped up RTZ he would just get fucked even harder. how does speeding him Giorno's ability to undo whatever the fuck he wants help Pucci at all?

[@gamingnamehere1560]

@@dagaminghamster2290 umm, RTZ resets fate or time. either way it would reset the acceleration, not the acceleration effecting it. plus wouldnt accelerationg RTZ be a good thing for Giorno

[@dagaminghamster2290]

@@gamingnamehere1560 that's why I said it's head cannon, but it doesn't seem to actually reset time as what happened still happened, he just made it not have any effects. Also I was arguing that was an advantage to Giorno

[@StudioRamenCat]

Not sure if it counts at all but in regards to @12:15 but in JJBAASB (at least the original) if Pucci gets his stand to MIH the game clock accelerates and the other player gets a slow motion debuff (which can lead to cheap time over) but if the other player has Giorno and gets his stand to GER the time clock still winds down fast but Giorno and GER aren't effected by the debuff. It's one thing that always lead me think that somehow he wouldn't be effected by MIH or it was just the game's interpretation of returning any mishaps that may befall the player to zero. Was just something to ponder keep up the great work as always 💪.

[@theblueprint2001]

That isnt canon. A game is not canon to jojo. Ger has the most misconceptions around it in the fanbase because of headcanon like this

[@moka6980]

Araki legit stopped himself from adding giorno at the end because he couldn’t figure out how ger can lose to mih.

[@christopherchocolate69420]

My source is that I made it the fuck up

[@Kait07_]

maybe because he kept weather report to win at the end and ur just bsing

[@MunchyMochi621]

Perhaps because the point of the story was to make it moving and not "watch a fight between two characters". Weather Report finishing off Made in Heaven had story Influence behind it.

[@johnlucas2838]

Infinite Death Loop is basically Hax Life Punch. It affects the person to the point that even after they die, they're alive dying.

[@Rob-nk2fd]

From what I understand, the arrow gives the user an ability based on his desire at the moment of the activation (don't know if it's the deepest desire or just a surface desire) while also regaining previous requiem abilities (chariot requiem). I think it was stated by Polnareff with his explanation on how he wanted to walk again the first time, and that as a consequence Chariot gained a certain power that he also had the next time he appeared as a requiem. What I'm trying to say is that there's a chance GER may gain a new ability against Pucci and MiH that may perfectly counter the heaven ascended stand thanks to the arrow.

[@kmsthanks]

You are right, though its probably only the first time you activate the Requiem, and that ability simply just stays. I feel like during the rematch with Diavolo, Polnareff would've had a different desire. It is stated that it is the deepest desire, iirc.

[@theblueprint2001]

No this is headcanon and never stated

[@ynam.2622]

@@kmsthanksIm pretty sure during the Diabolo runback with Polnareff. His only goal when getting stabbed was to keep the arrow away from Diavolo, which in turn created a lot of confusion and prevented any stand users from using the arrow.

[@filipeferreira5085]

I agree with that. Since Giorno's desire was to kill Diavolo and stop drug trafficking, and Pucci wasn't part of that, GER may not have needed to activate its ability

[@captainb.mccrea5480]

@@theblueprint2001 the arrow gives the Stand the ability the user desires. Polnareff wanted to get the arrow away from Diavolo, Giorno wanted to defeat Diavolo and change his own fate

[@HatchBack06]

The video we've all been waiting for 😢😢😢😢

[@brem-]

I wonder if resseting the universe would actually take GER away. Because when we see Pucci resseting the universe it goes all the way back to the prison, but Pucci still has MIH and Emporio has Weather's stand disc, even though they shouldn't have that at that point in time. So by that logic it could be argued that if the universe is reset whilst Pucci and Giorno are fighting that GER would stay, since Giorno technically brought it with him from the previous universe like how Emporio brought the stand disc with him.

[@_xangetsu]

Ive always thought that mih could just speed through the dimensional barrier of d4c🌚

[@qmaiin7830]

yeah, same

[@cyrus8886]

Pucci starts spinning infinitely bypassing love train 🌚

[@pixelname4899]

​@@cyrus8886 speeeeeeen

[@Cubicflow]

Translation: "MIH with prep time wins"

[@TheMan-ct8gh]

No

[@strikermodel]

6:15 Saying Giorno's stand is above fate is literally missing the entire point of his story. Nobody defeated fate. Diovolo was trying to avoid his fate, the repercussions of his actions. Giorno was trying to bring about justice, which fate always sides with. The last episode, the ironically prequel one, shows that almost all of Giorno's passe were fated to die. That entire episode literally established "your fate is decided and you cannot change it. You can however choose the life you lead up to it." This was also the ENTIRE POINT of the heaven stand. It was so that everyone would be aware of their fate, so that they could come to terms with it. The big over arching point here, is that nothing defeats fate. If someone does wrong, then they are fated to reap what they sow. The heaven stand is ironic, because they are trying to change their own fate the entire time. Meaning their plan is destined to fail. Lastly, stands are fate manifest. An extention of fate cannot be above it. That's taken even further in that the requim effects are literally "what the user wishes their stand to do". So Giorno's wish was something like "bring justice to Diovolo". Diovolo's sins brought an uncountable amount of lifes to an end, so he dies endlessly. Because requim stands are basically a wish to accomplish exactly one goal, it makes sense that it doesn’t have stats. It WILL accomplish that goal no matter what. It's an absolute. Considering that only the people on the side of justice ever happened to have the requim arrow, then the arrow only ends up in the hands of the ones fate chose, meaning it's a mcguffin for fate to ensure itself. At the end of the day, Pucci loses because his fate is to lose. It doesn’t matter by stand abilities, arrow, whatever. It was narratively decided as that is how fate works.

[@l0sts0ul89]

Yeah but that's a stupid cope out answer instead of actually figuring out who is actually superior.

[@sonny96able]

Okay, so... I am sorry if someone else made this theory earlier but.. I think Emporios actions are part of GERs abilties. Hear me out now... So GER's abilities are that no one should ever reach the point point of 0 or their destined fate. But that isn't very specified. So in part 5 Diavolos actual death was 0, but what if in part 6, Pucci reaching the universe he wanted was the 0. Since the universe Emporio was still part off, wasn't the universe Pucci wanted, it wasn't Puccis 0 yet. So giving Emporio the stand of Weather Report to stop Pucci from reaching his 0, was a way for GER to prevent that 0. So, if you think like that GER was actually stopping MIH and Giorno defeated Pucci.

[@PullUpGod]

This is literally a debate of what’s more important, the rewind button or the fast forward button.

[@emaster9663]

METAS, IF YOUR SEEING THIS, MAKE A MORIOH WARRIORS VS MADE IN HEAVEN. I WANNA SEE HOW YOU WOULD THINK IT WOULD PLAY OUT.

[@elderchild7856]

I've got a different take on this matchup, but mostly because I scale these two differently than a lot of powerscalers. For MiH, I don't give him infinite speed. Sure, he accelerates time to a point where it is infinite (the singularity point), but he is still perceived by the others when not standing still (also the fact that he's never been shown to *move* in time stop). As for his destructive power, I tend to scale him to WS, just because it isn't clear that Pucci got any stronger physically as his stand evolved, and C-Moon still scales below Jolyne and Stone Free, just with a one-shot ability. As for GER, I see the "ultimate stand" and "requiem energy" as referring to how his Return to Zero ability works. For one, I see it as being semi-passive to where Giorno or GER just need to have the ability ready and it will automatically activate from there (guard up), and it also just negates wills/actiond and reverses time to just before they were formed (negates the efforts of other souls, thus dominating them). As far as his stats go, I agree that GER just scales relative to but still above KC in power and speed. As for how I see this fight going down, Pucci has a massive speed advantage, especially if he delays the fight to prevent Giorno from reversing his attacks. As for a direct confrontation, Giorno should be strong enough to fold Pucci if he gets a good hit off (KC should at least be relative to Stone Free in destructive power based on stats, and Stone Free scales above WS), but that's assuming he can get a hit off while Pucci runs around him during accelerated time. That being said, Pucci still only has one way to kill Giorno (assuming we ban him just stalling out a uni reset and killing a non-GER Giorno), that being going for an instant kill ---made easy by Pucci's immense speed advantage--- because all of his attacks will otherwise be negated by GER (or, depending on how you interpret the fight against Diavolo, RoZ may just activate before Pucci has a chance to land a blow, making this fight end in a stale-mate). In the end, I would put the two on mostly even terms in this fight, with the other being one of their toughest MU's in the entire verse.

[@Just_Pradyun]

Amazing take and i agree with your statements but i dont see pucci being able to stall for time for his speed to be "infinite" since GER is the most self aware and could see the situation in mere moments. the real problem would be when pucci's speed is infinite, then match him up with GER

[@marzipancutter8144]

This. Pucci doesn't *just* move fast. He speeds up the passage of time for himself and everything except for other lifeforms. This means, while he is several orders of magnitude faster than any person that could fight, he is not faster than physics. If an object fell off a cliff, he would perceive it falling down at normal speed while everyone else sees it reaching the ground instantly (Although it actually carries the impact of having moved at extreme speed). However, this also means that if an inanimate object is accelerated to a speed where a normal human being couldn't react in normal time, Pucci wouldn't be able to react either (And of course, other people affected by MIH would be exponentially super fucked by such an object.) Because he is only that fast relative to other lifeforms (Or rather, every object is as fast as him). This is why MiH Pucci would lose to a military grade A.I. driven Automatic Turret, or more commonly to any kind of Booby trap. Object-bound automatic stands are hard to judge but I'd say they wouldn't work for this because they are powered by a persons Soul their ability wouldn't be speed up, although their effect on the physical world may be sped up.

[@kingstaxkss4736]

Been waiting for this

[@howiestuner616]

I love your videos meatass!

[@bigpoggers6507]

I feel like this fight is gonna just be like a human-sized fly floating around GER unless we take the logic of "heaven stands just built different" that TWOH kinda presented

[@PimguOPM]

Tbh, since eyes of heaven isn’t canon, I’d assume it was just to be cool. Besides that, it’s ability is literally to counter GER, but if it attacked giorno with say knives, he would have been returned to zero, although this is all very questionable

[@wonderdbl]

Bro your actually the best JoJos channel, your vids are class. (Also plz do a Diego vs Dio vid or somthing with Diego in it)

[@KansaswithaK]

It takes some time before the absurdity of how strong GER is fully sets in. It's an automatic ability, so he's literally invincible.

[@Eterco]

I'd like to see the Morioh Warriors go up against Passione since a lot of the morioh warriors have stands that weirdly counter the Bucci gang, like Crazy Diamond vs Gold Experience (GER Banned obviously)

[@creeperman1295]

I don't think this is a 100% deciding factor, but I think another thing that could be put in GER's favor is that other living creatures and (inanimate objects?) can move faster while MIH is accelerating, shown by the dolphin underwater being able to temporarily escape from Pucci and Stone Free being able to throw a knife to injure Pucci's eye. Being able to manipulate life in that manner can definitely give Giorno an edge in that regard at least before Pucci gets infinitely/immeasurably fast to reset the universe.

[@eW91dHViZSBpcyBjZW5zb3JzaGlw]

THIS. pucci only has speed and a slow start universe reset. giorno solos easily. pucci can only win by in the canon manga by universe reset OUTSIDE of giornos awareness range.

[@marzipancutter8144]

I don't think the dolphin was moving faster. They are just very good at swimming, so even with at normal speed they can still outpace Puccis accelerated swimming. (Keep in mind that while Pucci is faster, it also means he would have to swim continuously for DAYS while still having normal human stamina). The key to outswimming Pucci was stamina. That means that lifeforms created by GER might not necessarily be accelerated. However, you're right in that objects are sped up to match Puccis speed (along with time itself)

[@operationb.e.n6480]

Fate is the strongest force in the JoJo series- Fate operates beyond time and space, and while there are stands that can manipulate fate to a certain degree, GER is the only stand that can outright reject it

[@mysticmongrel1289]

GER itself is 1/3 of Fate, actually. It's "The Present" or "The Ongoing" otherwise known as "The Mother" in how Fates work in mythology. In a similar vein, Rolling Stones is "The End" or "Death" otherwise called "The Chrone" in mythology. We have not seen The Maiden "Beginnings" nor The Warrior "Experiences" in the series.

[@Addicted2Electronics]

i really like this video, it explains win conditions for both characters and also explains jobber's point without the malding that you see in his videos lmao

[@BlackHole22410]

How well timed, i just finished waching part 6.

[@Just_a_meat]

I am still waiting for a new terrifying stands video with weather report….

[@sc0rp1onn21]

I think that GER surpasses EXISTING stands stats and cant like scale to somewhere on it self like the strongest physical stand is SP or TW so it outscales in strenght their feats but cant scale further but if there was like some Planetary physical feat GER would surpass that. (still i think that GER is the strongest until Araki says something)

[@darkligth2549]

the way i understand GER is that it has an ability related to causality, it was said by diavolo that his ability would erase time and only leave the effects of what happened. later when giorno gets GER i remember it was said that he got the perfect counter to diavolo. So if this where the case, and assuming king crimson can delete "cause", then i would assume return to zero works by deleting "effect". so looking at it this way, it would work outside the time manipulation of any kind due to it being operating on a higher scale, therefore GER would be either not affected by them, instantly deny the effects, or only act on self defense, so i guess Pucci would get no chance if this is how that GER works

[@Swerzuh]

How I always understood the infinite death loop was that the person performing the action had an infinite amount of themselves who wouldve attempted harm against Giorno/GER. Because of that, those infinite amount of times that they wouldve attempted to harm would also be killed, infinitely. So the soul of the person who attempted the action would be transported in every other iteration of themselves in the way that they would have died, infinitely. No confirmation on that obviously, but thats what I've always believed was happening.

[@oscarguevaraf778]

I've always thought that MiH is in some way stronger because, you know, arrows are some human craft made, evolution of one and so are requiem stands. But achieving heaven means you've ascended life, your soul has trascended and went to the aether

[@jamesbinner1039]

But requiem is goated

[@jamesbinner1039]

And you know rt0

[@tergartcunninghan2013]

True. Though the arrows are already made from something beyond our world, with the Requiem Arrow likely being made of its core, or the most “pure” part of the meteorite. It’s an arrow that fuses man and the divine together beyond the capacity of other methods. The very nature of the Requiem arrow states that it holds some inherent, pure connection to the souls of all things. The process of “reaching Heaven” allows one to touch upon the divine; rhe Requiem Arrow fuses man and the divine together.

[@oscarguevaraf778]

@@jamesbinner1039 How does Requiem being goted affects my statement?

[@Kodukushi]

Even then, you’d still have a soul though, and Requiem’s ability to dominate souls still affects you, and every living thing regardless of how your soul has changed?

[@tempestGang]

Spoiler alert: *A stand wins*

[@inkrements]

No the stand wins

[@TroyColey]

@@inkrements actually a Stand wins

[@cryingmetal9349]

No regular stand wins

[@josephrogers3666]

Nah wonder of u aka stand wins

[@evolutionaryz3055]

Finally, Thank you Meta.

[@robo88gamer]

Great video! 👍 Can you make a GER vs Tusk Act 4?

[@TheMan-ct8gh]

GER

[@Bendy785]

I always wondered: If fate itself can’t keep up with Made In Heaven, why should RTZ be able to keep up with it?

[@cyrus8886]

GER is above fate Since it changed diavolo's prediction

[@Bendy785]

@@cyrus8886 fair enough

[@error-4269]

​​@@cyrus8886 nice one nacho!

[@franksarria9693]

The thing with Ger being above fate is that its very subjective in terms of how you interpret the story. The Rolling Stones arc reveals that the entire course of part 5 was meant to happen based on whether bruno died at that moment. It even ends off with the notion that we "are all slaves to fate". You can interpret it either way, so yeah.

[@johndoesstuff352]

​@@franksarria9693 there's a dialogue which explains it

[@lordtwigo460]

A while ago i saw an interesting what if and was wondering if you could do it please? What if Donatello Versace successfully betrayed Pucci and achieved Heaven?

[@Arva_]

one interpretation of return to 0 is that time isnt a factor in its activation, because when return to 0 was shown diavolo is skipping time or in other word they are in an erased time

[@protoman4622]

I personally agree though for differing reasons. Since ger is an alive stand, self aware, and was able to activate its ability in king crimsons time erase which has been stated by diavolo as pretty much impenetrable(since only he can act in erased time and only he remembers what happened), ger could be scaled to a 4th dimensional due to being outside of time erase and on a highball outside of time itself here. It’s ability activates and as further proof of this, only ger and diavolo understand what’s happening while giorno is still under the effects of kc getting reverted. The ability of ger and ger as a whole is so strong it theoretically stands outside of time and can’t take its user with it. Along with the passive of a direct attack on Giorno on ger, it acts like a reverse of kc ability and WoU combined. The shear will to act on attacking ger is enough to prock the ability which is pretty much reverse kc, reverting actions to zero aka reverting time to an anchor point ger had made, possibly the point where the individual began acting on the thought of attacking Giorno or his stand. Than we get to MiH, don’t get me wrong I love this stand and Pucci as a character but I think he gets his shit rocked. Not only does pucci not know of all this stuff ger can do, but to add salt on the wound it’s pretty much jover when the ability activates since it could just revert pucci back to before attacking ger, or hell could just undo the entire universe speeding up. Ger is busted to the point where I don’t think it could take on WoU or D4C:LT due to possibly not being able to break dimensional barriers and WoU having a law of the universe of its ability (pretty confidant ger couldn’t revert that but your guess is as good as mine) but still strong enough to stalemate both D4C:LT but also pretty much any character in fiction that can’t jsut wish him out of existence. Not saying he could beat them, since goku ain’t dying to ger anytime soon. But when he can’t hit his opponent and his opponent can’t hit him/do any damage, thats an insta stalemate. And any character that can be hurt by ger significantly, just looses, outright. Tldr: pucchi looses because with GER you either stalemate or get yo shit rocked(unless it’s a universal law or reality manipulator)

[@protoman4622]

For anyone who took the Time to read this, if you want to state your own oppinions and why you disagree go ahead, ain’t gonna have a debate but I enjoy seeing other people’s side of things

[@BappO-is-me]

GER was always that character which bored me when it came to stand battle debates. From what I've heard from pretty much everyone, he has a passive ability to remove the effect from a cause and reverse fate itself, making him untouchable even by fate manipulators like King Crimson. It's like trying to put Rimuru or The Omni King in a serious anime debate, you're basically admitting to not wanting a fight, you just want to be right without any of the effort of choosing a character who can be defeated.

[@swiggydswirl330]

It's also typically uninteresting since JoJo fans love to forget that GER can only activate if the will or action of an attacker attempts to threaten Giorno. Since MiH is harmless to living concepts, an attack against Giorno would only revert Pucci back to zero. Given Pucci's position when activating MiH, he would either be reset to a distance in which he can comfortably formulate a counter plan or wait until the universe to reset to a point where Giorno may not have Requiem. Being privy to how these stands actually work creates a new dialogue for the theoretical outcome of this battle (which I think is interesting). Like, can Giorno reset time acceleration back to zero even though its activation is separate from Pucci's intent to harm? If not Pucci will still have the speed advantage he had before GER activates giving him even more time for a counter. Either way, I think it is either a stalemate, or Giorno wins with mid-difficulty, or Pucci wins high-difficulty given specific conditions Araki never really expounded on.

[@mickflick8133]

​@@swiggydswirl330 Important to note that that is just your head canon. GER may very well be able to activate without a direct threat to Giorno, it's never explicitly stated either way.

[@swiggydswirl330]

@@mickflick8133 You are absolutely wrong due to the fact that in the chapter GER appears in, the stand note SPECIFICALLY says that GER only activates when the will of an attacker threatens Giorno (did you just skim over the stand stats at 4:46???). Not only does it say that nearly word for word in the manga, but GER is only shown to activate when Giorno is being threatened with an attack. It is shown like this in the manga. It is shown like this in the anime. Please don't pretend I made this up as headcanon when I actually care about understanding Araki's manga. It feels like you are lying and yet have no idea that you're doing it amidst all of the actual evidence clearly illustrated by the author.

[@mickflick8133]

@@swiggydswirl330 Literally neither of those things say an attack is REQUIRED. You have not put very much work into understanding the manga apparently. GE was also shown to make the senses go berserk and then it never happens again so it's kind of silly to treat your headcanon as fact. No offense but you're absolutely wrong due to the fact that the stand stats page doesn't say that at all, you're providing an antecedent where there isn't one.

[@swiggydswirl330]

@@mickflick8133 "The strength of an attacker's will and actions will be reverted to zero." Did you miss the part where the stand note literally says "attacker" or do you just not know what words mean? Did you realize the exact definition of an "attacker" is "a person or animal that ATTACKS someone or something?" or do you just think an attack is still not required even though that contradicts the literal stand note and specific wording that is used? It is implicitly stated that "the strength of an ATTACKER'S (a person or animal that attacks someone or something) will AND actions will be reverted to zero," which indeed makes an attack the prerequisite. I hate how I have to dumb down the already simple language to a kindergartener's level of understanding but this is a JoJo fan I'm talking to. The fact you are trying to die on a hill with zero evidence is typical but exceedingly embarrassing. You are wrong, it is stated that there must be an attack for GER's RTZ to activate, and it is only shown to be that way. If you can prove otherwise during that final fight (which you cannot) I will concede this point. So, this is absolutely a fact, sorry bud. Provide evidence instead of saying "I won't bother interpreting the author's explicit wording so you are just wrong lul" Also, you do realize most fights with GE feature GE physically fighting other stands right? His "giving life" ability only affects humans, not stands. The only humans GE has punched we're Bruno (who experienced the giving life ability), Choccialata (who experienced 7 pages of muda and died directly as a result), and Diavolo (who died during the assault of punches GER landed). To say it "never happens again" when the only other people who were punched by GE aside from Bruno, were people who literally died from GE's assault is such a dumb take to make. Now, I know your reading comprehension isn't up to par, but there's no real reason to show the "giving life" aspect of GE's ability when the opponents he's attacking literally die (aside from Bruno) from the attack. Get real man, your arguments are so weak and hardly worth engaging with since you can't understand the contents of what you're reading.

[@juzox5161]

I like to think Requiem is a fate given ability to allow the user of a Requiem to overcome an undesirable fate. Considering that Diavolo had the upper hand and was literally precognitive to see his own victory. Diavolo would've won but Fate acted upon a worthy victor. I don't think GER is a Deus ex Machina, but I believe the act of the arrow choosing Giorno over Diavolo was an act of god. It was more of a symbolic fight than anything else, I mean take what diavolo is as a person and character vs Giorno as a person and character. I believe the reason why the Arrow chose Giorno was because he with his golden dream and decisions throughout the part, unlike Diavolo who never grew as a character, who never truly faced hardships, Diavolo cheated, essentially cheated his way to the top. Fate doesn't pick between good or evil, Fate doesn't fully dictate what would be the best thing for the universe and the world around it. Fate is a force unlike no other, but fate does tip its scales when measured between a creatures Worth. Diavolo would've won if he grew as a character, if he faced hardships, made sacrifices, and had resolve, but nonetheless Diavolo more or less stayed the same, in which the arrow acted as a Deus ex machina to punish Diavolo and reward Giorno who had a golden resolve, made sacrifices, faced hardships, overcome the seemingly insurmountable. The same can be said with Polenareff, we've seen him grow with the stardust crusaders, we see him travel and face hardships, seen him due the impossible. Even after becoming disabled, he continued to search for a way, he never gave up, and thus the arrow allowed itself to reveal its true nature, Silver Chariot Requiem was a milestone, it wasn't fully under control, but it was granted to Polenareff to enact within the future, to give him light upon the progress he made. Chariot requiem's role was to deliver, as it walks mindlessly towards someone or something where the arrow belongs, after all it eventually ended up in the hands of Giorno. The "heaven" stand is a means of evolution towards faith. Considering the way to achieve "heaven" is to let go of ones stand, thus killing themselves. It's a process through trust, courage, and faith in not just oneself but upon another and with a goal in mind. The examples with DIO Beyond Heaven and Pucci himself. Considering the nature of stands, it takes evolution and faith to new limits. Similarly, to worth, you will need a way to preserve oneself and to be reborn. You need to let go of the old you to bring another. DIO being the unholy being that he is, he would need to have faith in another to bring himself back after letting go of his new achieved power (The World) in order to prove his worth to be reborn. He will need to have Courage with a goal in mind to achieve the next level of himself to which would be his ascended form. I believe that through this ritual like process is a test from fate itself to prove ones worth, and to test its newfound worth towards its goal, in this case Cape Canaveral (Due to the weaker gravity). Its purpose is to through hardships your way and to see if you can overcome it, similar to how the arrow measures its worth through the actions of the user. We may not see it with DIO but with Pucci we see him grow as a character. We see him face hardships as a literal trial from god, he proves himself time and time again, so much so that he believes fate is guiding him towards victory, in which I agree. Through his test he will be rewarded at the end and will be able to obtain "heaven" and achieve his goal. If anything, the heaven plan is a rudimentary test to evolve a stand without an item (the arrow)to dictate its worth. I believe that Requiem and Heaven are two sides of the same coin, one possessed of pure worth throughout previous actions and achievement, and the other a literal test of courage and faith into a goal you pursue even at the cost of your own soul (stand). Through this Pucci achieves heaven and his goal to create his perfect Universe in Dio's image, however Pucci was unable to escape his own fate, fate dictates that Pucci would win under very specific circumstances, in which he follows through until the end. His goal was to benefit the human race and allow his version of happiness onto the world (Remember that fate doesn't care about good or evil) however he starts using his newfound abilities, his reward for his own desires, ending the Joestars. If he had not selfishly enacted on his desires, he would had his perfect world, and the Joestars would be left alone after all, he achieved his goal. but under the conditions specified by DIO (A friend who has no desires) this entire time, he prevailed, defeated and overcame obstacles without enacting on his own desires. He could've stayed and diverge from the plan to pursue the Joestars then reach Cape Canaveral before the new moon, but he wouldn't achieve heaven as he would not be fit for his rewarded goal. However he enacted only in defense and overcame hardships perfectly, in thus he achieved heaven and created his universe only to fall victim to trying to get his revenge. Instead of letting fate play out like he had created the world to do so, he diverged, Yes they were fated to fight Pucci, however Pucci already won and fate dictates that the Joestars and Emporio have yet to come into conflict with Pucci. This allowed Emporio the opportunity to Punish Pucci and shape the universe to reward Emporio for his efforts. Similar to Giorno against Diavolo, Emporio had more resolve and a lot more sacrifice than Pucci, and in the end both Diavolo and Pucci are punished by fate itself. In case you don't wanna read all of that, here's Pokémon terms to summarize. Requiem = Mega Evolution through good bond with Fate Heaven = chugging down a bunch of permanent stat boost items, Finding and selecting the most compatible item for your plan, play your team just right, Baton Pass and finally sending out the pokemon you all been waiting for to wipe out the opponent and win Requiem only stays until the battle is over like mega evolution Heaven plan fails when team and strategy doesn't go as planned

[@starbreaker6740]

i know this is super nitpicky but I find it kinda funny > I don't think GER is a Deus ex Machina, but I believe the act of the arrow choosing Giorno over Diavolo was an act of god Deus ex Machina means "God from machine", it's a term that comes from Greek theater describing a situation that gets resolved by a literal act of god

[@juzox5161]

@@starbreaker6740 Yes, the arrow choosing Giorno was a deus ex machina, however GER itself wasn't, its just an upgraded stand with newfound power, Afterall Diavolo still was able to see victory until the true nature of GER was revealed and was able to overcome time erasure, Whether or not return to zero is passive or activation, Diavolo still had a chance (And in this case against Pucci, Pucci would still have a chance). If GER was a Deus Ex Machina, then GER should win no matter what scenario as fate and destiny literally made GER into reality to change an outcome. However through analysis by Meta and others, GER is not all that. Powerful and a tough challenge to overcome yes but not all that. Considering the arrow was gifted to Giorno, that was the reward from fate, the deus ex machina was the arrow to not fall into Diavolo's hands. (Hope that clears things up on what I meant)

[@tracksanino957]

That dominate all souls part, you should read the next page after polnareff said that quote. I think it's important.

[@mapowey7214]

the scary thing about ger is what its ability actually looks like when being used. anyone that tries to kill him immediately dies. thats the most menacing stand ability by far.

[@NoDeePop]

this entire argument is summed up with "what's infinity times 0?"

[@emmanueladekunle3088]

Facts...its zero

[@TroyColey]

METAs, what if ( hypothetically ) someone where to combine hamon with the spin?

[@error-4269]

They would become Jesus

[@coleavis2150]

electrified balls

[@Indexer409]

Y’know, a thing people dont realize is that ger seems to have some sort of telekenesis. Ger when it appeared did make ger float and fly forwards trough the air and it also levitated several small rocks so ger does have some sort of telekenesis

[@asdergold1]

And all of its abilities seem to have gotten boosted as well.

[@dinosaurusrex1482]

-Puchi activates made in heaven -Return to zero does not activate as speeding up time does not directly affect giorno -puchi attempts to attack giorno which procs return to zero negating his attack -giorno attempts to counterattack but pucchi dodges. -both parties are unable to harm their opponent

[@mstewie08]

I think it's more likely GER would reject the time acceleration, and would create its own alternate universe at the point that MIH activates. So probably in the GER universe, pucci would go to activate MIH, and nothing would happen. Hed probably get beaten up by the heroes of part 6 and life would continue in Giornos universe as normal.

[@aclevernickname8560]

I honestly think that this would be a stalemate if anything. Pucci is probably at least in the top 3 smartest JoJo villains, and would probably realize that attacking Giorno with GER wouldn't work after he does it once. I honestly think he WOULD survive said encounter, as while Pucci's direct attack would be reverted to zero, the Time Acceleration itself would not, due to it not directly causing harm to Giorno. This would give Pucci either a slight advantage or a gargantuan advantage on reaction time depending on how fast time is currently going. He COULD reset the Universe and try to attack Giorno before he gets GER, but this would result in Pucci's death. IMO, the only reason Pucci died at the end of Stone Ocean is due to the fact that he tried to kill Emporio, who is FATED to survive at least until after Pucci received MiH. Pucci, becoming arrogant believes he is above fate, and goes against it in a universe where everything is predestined, down to the smallest detail, causing him and Emporio to no longer be bound by fate, and at that point Pucci got extremely unlucky, causing his death. On another note, GER probably DOES have a time limit, but we will likely never see the GER we saw at the end of Part 5 ever again. Many people forget that a Requiem is based on your will at that exact moment, and Giorno wanted to defeat Diavolo, who already has one of the most busted Stands in the entire series, thus causing GER to become the God Stand that it is. Giorno would likely try to use the Requiem Arrow again if he has it, but the question is whether or not Pucci would be able to stop him.

[@mickflick8133]

Time erasure doesn't directly harm Giorno. It's also not explicitly established that the threat has to be direct to Giorno. The will at exact moment thing is also a head canon thing.

[@dashylongfoot]

I'm on the fence, GE:R's revert to 0 ability imo is a space time ability, due to it shown to reverses any attack done to it's user and by extension time itself as Mista shot bullets at Diavolo, however those bullets went back into the gun when revert to 0 was in play, so there is evidence to say it is a time and space ability. Also, Giorno would've been aware of time speeding up, idk about Rohan, but Giorno would've noticed something was up, however he did not use GE:R in that moment or shown to do so, giving me the impression GE:R even if Giorno was in the vicinity would be effected by MIH. Whether MIH would actually beat GE:R idk, but I do know from the fact that it's ability does effect time for me at least gives the idea MIH would effect it.

[@AuricTheThird]

I dont know if you get much into western comics, but i would love to see a video of doomsday vs GER

[@rhysjonsmusic]

Honestly I think its really darn simple. If GER could affect MIH and prevent its ability... we wouldve seen that happen in series

[@josukehigashikata9551]

He no longer has GER.

[@kungfuvoodoo9889]

That doesn't necessarily mean anything in the case of GER and MIH fighting a 1 on 1 battle. Return to Zero is canonically defined as reverting all actions and willpower to zero and the stand activates automatically even in situations like King Crimson when it's in the process of erasing time and Giorno himself is unable to do anything. However going off of GER's quote (at least the sub translation in the anime), "None who stand before me will ever get there" [referring to the fate of winning against GER even if KC is able to make that fate the truth], it seems reasonable to assume GER activates in response to anyone directly fighting it/Giorno, not just a universal nullification to everything that might have the willpower to do something that would just so happen to harm Giorno. If it could just nullify ALL willpower that would lead to Giorno's harm/death like MIH, it would have stopped Pucci the moment he concocted the plan to achieve heaven, long before he acquired MIH. But I think because Pucci wasn't directly fighting Giorno and therefore not "standing before GER" there wasn't anything Giorno could do against a universal threat rather than a direct one. So sure canonically you could say GER lost to MIH in a sense, but at the end of the day, there's a reason why Araki avoided having Giorno involved in the story of part 6 since GER is pretty damn broken and writing a villain that could bypass its powers in a direct fight without also being so broken that they couldn't be defeated would be pretty difficult. But that doesn't mean fans can't theorycraft how actual stand battles would go.

[@poopie5719]

Giorno couldn’t cause after he beat diavolo in the manga and anime the requiem arrow falls out of gers head onto the ground because its purpose to live ended once he killed diavolo cause he wanted to protect his friends kill diavolo and become a ganstar

[@johnlucas2838]

@@poopie5719 And what about Chariot Requiem, the thing carries the arrow, even loses grip on the arrow and it is still a requiem.

[@poopie5719]

@@johnlucas2838 did you even read my comment? Ger vanished because its purpose was fulfilled however, scrs wasn’t because his goal is to keep the arrow away from diavolo and other people so if the arrow falls out of his hand that doesn’t mean his purpose was fulfilled thats the exact opposite

[@oWarlock360o]

Pucci already solved this for us. He beat GER by doing what he did in Part 6. He didnt directly attack GER, but ended up "ending" the universe and all in it while Giorno was around.

[@justintherice5028]

I would love to see you debate about Erens(Founding Titan Form) vs The Whole DS Verse

[@mr_hollow8567]

THIS GUY DOES NOT MISS 💯💯💯

[@jpphilosopher]

Another really important question that Araki never answered is that after the events of part 6, is Girono still alive? If anyone could survive what Pucci did, then it would be Girono. I hope he makes a return at some point in part 9.

[@mr.krinkle952]

That'd be kinda sick. Already knowing one character came back already.

[@PhantomGato-v-]

JoDio Joestar

[@distinguishedkorok]

I think GER slaps the shit out of Pucci

[@AstroPeezy]

I like that you considered damn near every possibility instead of trying to push an agenda. Good shit

[@brandonfrye2000]

Oh here we go 🎉😮