Methanol Injection 101 Stop Listening To Facebook Car People

[@Hemihart]

I love videos like this. I know you may get a lot of backlash for this video, but as a tuner, I am 100% in your corner. This video is 100% backed by data. Whether you like it or not, this is absolutely what we see on combinations like this time and time again. In my experience, DI stuff that doesn't have enough fueling really seems to benefit a lot from 100% methanol injection pre-tb. If you are running ethanol with port injection, the gains are minimal...even with high iat's. You got a like and sub from me, homie. Great video!!

[@andrewd843]

I appreciate it! Everyone who had ever argued with me online never provided data. Now a turbo car or centrifugal supercharger sure they'll see IAT drops from the methanol but still if it's not tuned they'll lose power too.

[@jamesesquibel2279]

I was under the impression that stoich for pump gas was 14.1 for e10. Great info and something over looked often.

[@andrewd843]

It is. I don't think I mentioned anything about 10% ethanol fuel in this video or any video ever.

[@GA1.6T]

A couple years ago tried m1 instead of 50/50 boost juice and was blown away at how much of a difference it made without any fuel or timing changes, it had to have been 5-10hp. The power loss comes down to what the air fuels were before you start injecting meth. For instance if you're already running an 11.5 AFR WOT on 93oct, once you start injecting it will probably go to around 10.5-10.0 so you lose power (more or less depending on nozzle size). If you have a stock turbo car with a factory ecu that will be probably the best mod you can do, simply because the ecu will adjust fuel trims and timing modifiers automatically

[@andrewd843]

Correct, I explained that. It's a fuel you can't add fuel and not tune for it, especially when spraying the house down with methanol it goes so rich it'll lose power. Water meth isn't nearly as bad, but the gains from tuning are there 10 out of 10 times.

[@GA1.6T]

@@andrewd843 Absolutely. I added 2 degrees and took 5% away up top and it felt alot better. Great video btw really good info 👍

[@camscustombuilds]

Great video. A couple of things to note for people looking to run water/meth or meth injection. A single nozzle location can cause unequal distribution. You may have cylinders that are flooding with meth and some that barely get anything. Also, when you tune around a meth kit and the meth kit dies, you better hope there is some kind of fail safe in place.

[@andrewd843]

Why does everyone keep mentioning water meth? This video is for 100% meth not water meth that makes a huge difference. Methanol is fuel, water is not. Water cools, Methanol adds octane. But what happens when a fuel pump dies? Bad stuff can happen, once again methanol is fuel so it should be treated as such. I've seen more fuel pumps die than I have meth kit pumps.

[@andrewd843]

Also, don't modify anything if you're not willing to take a risk of parts failing and catastrophic damage.

[@SubiCarLous]

How is the power gain of normal fuel to meth/water injection? In this case it's not really worth to go to E85 + meth/water inj because the power gain is really low, right?

[@andrewd843]

I don't mess with water meth. Water meth is better for cooling. But I wouldn't recommend spraying water into supercharger rotors. Water meth power gains will depend on how bad cooling is, and how it gets tuned. Straight meth will depend on how tuning is and what the base fuel was being used. Pump/meth will have bigger gains than e85/meth.

[@RhynoE28]

No tune on my 09 mini Cooper S with direct port meth injection. I can run dry and not have issues. However I tuned my 04 STI on Meth/ E85 and have a premium gas tune as well and if I run dry in my STI I will have problems. Tuning isn't my strong suit as I have dyno shops for my builds. I do have about 10° cooler temps. Also. Are you running a LS7 or L77? Didn't hear a turbo or supercharger over exhaust but that could be why you don't see really any difference. Doing this on a F.i motor you will see a difference. My mini Cooper S just has it to clean my valves and run cooler. If I did get a tune I know I could get about 100 extra HP. Coming from the hot rod scene as well I get what you're saying and agree.

[@andrewd843]

Running no issue and making more power are two different things. Lots of things can be done doesn't mean they're gaining power unless you're really laking a fuel system.

[@H111-y8f]

I used to have alky system in my boosted vette and sierra but I switched them both to prometh with upgrade meth pump PM190 and VC-50 gauge meth/boost i felt this is the best combo lil expensive but worth it

[@malloymotorsports780]

Pro-meth still in business? Rodney is next to impossible to get a hold of

[@H111-y8f]

Yes they are, from my experience i used prometh and alky, pump, fittings and lines everything i will go with prometh all time

[@buiItnotbought]

I like prometh too. Good nozzles and easier to set up with 4 an ptfe braided line. Better than aem imo

[@eddiearchuleta615]

On a PD blower you want to spray pre and post rotors with a 50/50 mix of water and alcohol preferably isopropyl alcohol as it cools even better than methanol and has more power in the fuel

[@andrewd843]

Water doesn't compress. That can cause bad things to happen in the rotors if you spray a lot. Water is better for cooling. I don't use methanol for cooling. I use it for the octane.

[@rashmiro6202]

Thank you for proving that the gain is not worth it

[@andrewd843]

Some people still think injectors, flex sensor, and sometimes a fuel pump are worth the money for 5-10hp on some NA ls stuff, so what it's worth is up to whoever is spending money. Meth injection can be worth well over 100whp on the right combo, but a mild lsa combo isn't the right combo for big gains.

[@pastormichaelhibbertminist7486]

i have an Automatic Integra Turbo...so Water/Methanol, is the only thing i can use to enrichen the fuel without blowing the motor...since there are no computer programs available, for tuning

[@andrewd843]

straight meth with enrich the fuel a lot more than water/meth. Water/meth has better cooling.

[@pastormichaelhibbertminist7486]

@@andrewd843 Thank you...Great Advice!!!

[@jjjjjj9284]

Watching it from Australia mate big thumbs up with the video great bit of info 👍almost finished building my Intercooled LS1 turbo and am contemplating fitting the kit on to mine, I'll run the E85 first and go from there and decide

[@andrewd843]

Thank you! Methanol is great it just needs to be tuned for.

[@jjjjjj9284]

@@andrewd843 no worries, got that covered buddy 👍 like you ,do all of the tuning myself 👌

[@andrewd843]

@@jjjjjj9284 awesome! What turbo are you going to be running?

[@jjjjjj9284]

@@andrewd843 only a baby S480 lol ...its currently a 5.7Ls1 SBE not a street car anymore, powerglide custom Billet 5000 turbo conv , so aim is to run 9's without stretching the rods too much lol, if it does ive got some LSA Rods lol , but yeah baby steps

[@SmolKTN]

Hey man, please help me understand this. My car is currently at the mech, he's doing an upgdraded intercooler for my Focus ST 2016, he's saying I should also do watermethanol injection. He's also saying because we are at altitude, it will help gain power without a tune. I am confused now, he has done a lot of my type of car and he swears by it. What am I supposed to do now? What would you do if you had my car to work on?

[@andrewd843]

Water meth is not straight methanol that's two different things. Water doesn't change fueling like straight methanol does. So it would depend on 1. How your tune is 2. The water/meth %. 3. How much water/meth you spray.

[@b00st_SS]

Maybe would have helped the comments here if it stated NOT water/meth, alot assumed you’re talking about adding water/meth to a turbo application. Absolutely not what you’re talking about. Great video now that I understand the application. Blower + M1 . Not pump gas turbos + water meth.. apples and oranges

[@andrewd843]

First 4 seconds show m1 and m5 not my fault people assume stuff when I clearly mention methanol and never once said water meth

[@andrewd843]

Video description says Methanol Injection on an LSA Supercharged Chevy SS Often people say to use meth for cooling and it doesn't need to be tuned for it when using it for cooling. Well, methanol is a fuel so it will change the tune. You can spray chocolate milk on your IAT it will drop the temps that are registered but it's not going to make more power. On another setup I did the same test with a single M5 (size not vp m5) nozzle on using vp m1, the single m5 nozzle made the AFRs go from 11.9:1 to 11.3:1 which isn't horrible but will still need some tuning to get it 100% right. Now if the car was at 11.5:1 then a single nozzle was sprayed that would put the AFRs around 10.9-10.8:1. The more methanol you spray, the more it will change the AFR.

[@dlillibridge]

Is this true for cars that have a Wideband o2 sensor where the ecu can adjust ratios on the fly? I got WMI spraying before the supercharger (2023 F pace SVR) mostly for cooling. It gets 100+ F in the summer months. But, I'm wondering if my car will automatically pull some fuel out to prevent it form going to rich?

[@andrewd843]

Honestly, that depends on how the tune is set up. Just because something has a wideband vs narrow band doesn't mean the full corrections are setup to pull that much fuel. It 100% could do it but doesn't mean it will do it. Some aftermarket ecus you can program that allowed fuel corrections, not sure if everyone oem will correct 100% or if they have a limit on correction.

[@MrTheHillfolk]

Haha i laugh at em all. I was using a rigged water injection setup in a mk1 golf I had with a mechanical ahu tdi swap back around 04-05. Since i didn't have an intercooler i blew it right into the air intake going to the turbo. It worked great for years and crutched my lack of intercooler. Just a plain old washer botrle filled with juice , a piece of copper line and an old carb jet.

[@dvjracing5947]

I like the chocolate milk idea 💡

[@andrewd843]

Please report back with results

[@SmolKTN]

@@andrewd843 I guess he got some other kind of brown stain on his car :D

[@kanenaysmith9287]

Would there be a difference if you were not running ethanol fuel if you’re running normal pump gas

[@andrewd843]

For power? Or cooling? Pump/meth makes less than e85/meth but meth will have larger gains over on pump gas than it does on e85 if that makes sense. But cooling IAT wise won't be any different on a pd blower spraying before the rotors. It will also still need to be tuned or it'll be overly rich and most likely lose power.

[@kanenaysmith9287]

Thanks for the reply. i am building a 2jz turbo and i am trying to get away without having to use E85 because its hard to get where i live. I am also curious if running meth/water on a ford ranger 3.2L common rail would have any benefits.@@andrewd843

[@Drainclinic]

Hey my car has been tuned for 93 and meth I’ve been using m1 recently I haven’t been able to find m1 they only had m5 you think I can use the m5 with out any problems or do I need to adjust the tune

[@andrewd843]

I'd definitely ask whoever tuned it. I've done some back to back with m1 vs m5 and they usually needed want different tunes. But have no idea how your tune is.

[@corybenton1487]

I just noticed you are in South Carolina, Im building a c6 supercharged vette and will need tuning. im in charleston, where are you?

[@andrewd843]

Actually, up in North Carolina. If you're in Charleston, hit up Charleston Performance Solutions. I can definitely get it done but Charleston Performance Solutions is a whole lot closer than anywhere in NC.

[@Yooisam]

That shop quote me on a meth kit using vp m1 meth on a supercharger HEMI

[@Everything8Valve]

Is spraying meth before the blower ok? I’ve heard mixed things about putting meth before the blower can be harmful? Any thoughts on this I have a nuespeed supercharged 2 liter Volkswagen and the charger is apart of the intake manifold so the best cooling affects would happen if I sprayed meth before the blower

[@andrewd843]

I've had the meth for about 2.5 years now and my rotor pack in the supercharger still looks exactly how it did the day I installed the supercharger. I've heard methanol will eat the coating off the rotors but if it does I guess it takes a long time because I've gone through a lot of methanol over the last 30,000 miles and no issues so far. I wouldn't necessarily spray a water meth mix through it since water doesn't compress.

[@Everything8Valve]

@@andrewd843 ok so you recommend just meth for the octane boost?

[@andrewd843]

@Everything8Valve that's what I use it for. Not sure how it would be with your supercharger. But on this combo the methanol evaporates before it ever sees the IAT so meth or no meth there's 0 temp change for the air charge after the rotors.

[@corvetteZ3r]

Andrew what is target lambda for E85 and meth injection, assuming actual E85 for my questions sake

[@andrewd843]

You need to do whatever the car likes best. There's no one this works for every car. Heavier cars will like different ratios than lighter cars.

[@corvetteZ3r]

@@andrewd843 gotcha thanks. -Peyton B

[@BigMotorLover]

What about pure water then? My car doesn't offer custom tuning, only off the shelf. So no advancing or retarding timing. So what about pure water?

[@andrewd843]

Water injection shouldn't change the AFRs at all since water doesn't burn and isn't fuel. A lot of people run water injection for the cooling effect. Something like boost juice or a meth/water mix will give you the benefits of both some extra octane and cooling of water but won't be so much that it kills the power and makes it overly rich. I just prefer straight m1 since it'll make more power, and I don't have temperature issues.

[@ForRJ]

I have a totally different platform, and my car was slower with water/meth, I got it because many people said that it would make more power but it didn’t, it did help with knock and IATs, however after I got it tuned, it added around 40-50 horses, I can feel the difference. Don’t believe the hype, you need to tune or don’t bother.

[@andrewd843]

Water/meth is good for cooling. Same with water injection. Water isn't fuel so pure water injection or even water/meth mix won't have nearly the same drop in power since it's not over fueling the motor. However water/meth mix still has methanol so it will change the AFRs and need some tuning to get right. Whenever fuel is introduced it needs to be tuned.

[@shotamakarashvili3714]

Well, even in AEM WMI manual it says the AFR to be adjusted when spraying yet it's just 50/50 with water. Sure meth is changing Lambda, why wouldn't it..?

[@andrewd843]

90% of people on Facebook claim you don't need to tune for meth and it doesn't change the AFRs which would be impossible so that's why I made this video. Alky control instructions say similar things. I knew the answer but people need to see it sometimes.

[@RRahmani_performance]

Did you truy your „meth tune“ map just on e without meth? Just in case you was not running best ign on ethanol map

[@andrewd843]

@RRahmani_performance that wouldn't work. If my methanol tune is loaded the meth is on. If I don't plan on using methanol I load a different tune. About 10% of total fueling is methanol so that would be a lot of fuel missing.

[@brandonmcginnis4610]

How corrosive is M1? I have all stainless steel lines for my water methanol kit but will the M1 eat through the pump and solenoids?

[@andrewd843]

It can if the stuff isn't rated for methanol, just like some stuff isn't rated for ethanol will have the same issues. I haven't had any issues with the alky control stuff and i know some people going on 4+ years with the same pump.

[@burtgummerVerified]

Now I want some dunkin coffee😂

[@andrewd843]

America runs on dunkin or so the commercials say

[@burtgummerVerified]

@@andrewd843 🤣🤣🤣

[@flakey7832]

Ryan gosling is that you

[@andrewd843]

My bank account sure wish it was

[@timweb1510]

Good work man

[@andrewd843]

Thanks!

[@CamaroThings]

But... Facebook is where all the education is!!! 😂😂😂😂😂

[@andrewd843]

Right! The only place where everyone is an expert but meanwhile those same experts don't work on, spec, or tune anything. They're top notch but then ask what oil to run after a tire change lol

[@CamaroThings]

​@@andrewd843 "what oil to run after a tire change" 😂😂😂😂😂💀

[@wreckless4thf]

Looks like anyone shooting methanol before the turbo/supercharger wouldn't see any difference in actual IAT's but man I don't know how you couldn't see IAT's drop drastically on a high boost/high iat car if the methanol is introduced before the intake.

[@andrewd843]

Most people spray methanol after the turbo/centrifugal superchargers. Those you'll see IAT drops as long as it gets sprayed pre IAT sensor.

[@wreckless4thf]

@@andrewd843 who would even plumb it before the compressor??? 😂

[@andrewd843]

@@wreckless4thf you'd be shocked. I've seen people online do it.

[@wreckless4thf]

@@andrewd843 was the guy in the video who said "of course if I spray my iat sensor with methanol" implying that methanol doesn't cool iat's, it's just giving a false reading because the alcohol is hitting the sensor? If so maybe I need to put a a2w intercooler on my car which runs pure methanol injection and 40+ #s of boost without an intercooler with almost identical timing tables as a a2w car.

[@jjjjjj9284]

​@@andrewd843very true mate regarding spaying before the I.A.T

[@woody5217]

On a n/a application, wouldn’t the results be less significant to the point where it wouldn’t make since to run it, vs running it with boost?

[@andrewd843]

Why would you spray methanol on an NA application? It would need to be a pretty wild combo to pick up good with methanol injection or to even need methanol injection. But that being said, just spraying meth with no tuning on an NA car would make the power drop a lot worse than it did on this car in the video.

[@corvetteZ3r]

@@andrewd843 30 wheel gains

[@shotamakarashvili3714]

Very high CR NA built would benefit from using meth or water. That's the only time where there would a need for it in NA car. It works up to CR of as much as 16-17.

[@Bradley0beaver]

You want water for cooling not methanol, 50/50 is best blend of both in 90% of cases

[@andrewd843]

I'm aware. This video is for those online, as explained, who spout off things with no information or data to back up their claims. This isn't a how to use water/meth injection.

[@SmolKTN]

@@andrewd843 can you do one please?

[@sean.d7171]

Methanol injection is for high compression and boosted applications keep the pistons cool and free on detonation when running higher boost with pump fuel and helps hugely on directinjection turbo motors.100% needs to be tuned and ls a type of replacement for people that can't get e85

[@andrewd843]

Say it louder for the kids in the back!

[@sean.d7171]

@andrewd843 I'm running 6 injectors port injection on my m104 turbo probably go full meth due to running 1500cc total. Putting a pressure switch on the meth line to engage the high boost setting for bit of safety.

[@michaelpopp6340]

I agree. This video is outside of what most people run as he was on E-60 which has lots of cooling already built in, so w/m injection doesn't make much sense on his setup.

[@sean.d7171]

@michaelpopp6340 I know if you can get e85 don't waste time with water methanol. A supra with methanol injection at my local turner got over 200hp extra because of the knock suppression. They Could add 12psi on top of the regular pump fuel tune. Methanol can handle over 40/1 compression without knock e85 can handle 25/1 without knock. So methanol is very helpful even with small amounts.

[@jerzey22]

Accurate!!

[@andrewd843]

But Facebook said!

[@YoJoe-s4b]

This is poor people stuff. I run 100% M1 everyday, all day.

[@andrewd843]

Must be nice to be rich

[@YoJoe-s4b]

@@andrewd843 it is. I worked hard to get to this point. 🤷‍♂️

[@andrewd843]

I worked hard to be poor too funny how that works lol

[@YoJoe-s4b]

@@andrewd843 😂

[@patricklala2366]

This isn’t a good video because this car has a PD blower. If this car was turbo, it would make like a few more horsepower, because Keis motorsport, and Richard Holdener did the same video and the cooling was there and it also made more power. If this vehicle was the direct port, it would see an increase

[@patricklala2366]

And plus dual nozzle is way too much meth if you’re just gonna use it for cooling

[@andrewd843]

@patricklala2366 you know how many people run turbos or centri blowers run dual m15 nozzles for "cooling" a lot But also, on those other videos, what did they change? Was timing being pulled for heat? Was timing being added for cool temps? If everything is the same and you add meth rather than one small nozzle or a lot of nozzles, it's not going to pick up power. You can't add a slower burning fuel without changes, and it picks up power regardless of the power adder unless without meth its already octane limited. I've done this test over and over single nozzles, dual nozzle turbo, centrifugal, and pd blower. You can spray chocolate milk on your iat. It'll read lower temps, but it doesn't mean it's doing anything. Meth doesn't care about IATs. Why do you think methanol cars are usually non intercooled. What do you mean direct port? So 8 meth nozzles aren't too much, but 2 is? That doesn't make sense.

[@andrewd843]

Also, this video was 100% to PD blower people. LSA people everyday say spray meth for cooling all over the internet so that's 100% who this video was for. I have an older video on blower cooling and power gains from that with no tuning check that one out if you want.

[@patricklala2366]

@@andrewd843 i’m just going by off of what you said when the math goes on the blower lid it evaporate, so I assume direct port would be better but dual m15 is a lot

[@patricklala2366]

@@andrewd843 but like I said Keis motorsport, and Richard Holder, both did it, and they saw increases, but their applications were turbos

[@skalgt]

This video is misleading and does not even consider several scenarios where a tune would not be needed. I'll explain one of them. it's not necessarily about "adding more power". Cars that struggle with high IAT's can easily benefit from a WMI system without a tune. It's pretty simple - instead of the ECU pulling timing, boost, etc., and lowering performance overall as a safety measure against the high IAT's, the car will be able to run freely without it pulling back in certain areas to protect itself from the high temps. Simply allowing the car to operate with these lower IAT's without performance being held back is a HUGE benefit that can be achieved without any special "meth tune", and yes, you'd be allowing your car to make more power than it would without it. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

[@andrewd843]

Water meth and methanol are two completely different things. This video was to a specific group of people. Every week, someone makes a post about spraying the house down with pure meth (not water meth) and claims it doesn't need tuning. Water meth is great. Methanol is great. Both only work when done right. This video isn't about water meth or about cooling. IAT didn't change at all with or without. It's about octane. I wouldn't recommend spraying water in a PD blower. Water doesn't compress that can end extremely bad if too much goes in the rotors of the blower. It'd be no different than tossing a bolt into the rotors. But thanks for your comment.

[@dvjracing5947]

You're wrong bro 😂.