Michael Heiser - Mathematical Cipher in Genesis 5 Genealogies? | The Sumerian King List

[@yvonnehedeker3441]

Thank you for helping to bring more clarity, it's not an either or . Just look at the complexity and beauty in creation. We can barely comprehend, however God reveals over time in his Wisdom.

[@scottintexas]

Either one believes Genesis is the inspired Word of God or it’s not. It doesn’t preclude that the writer relied upon the Sumerian king lists (and likely knew more about it than we do) or other no longer existent sources ... as long as God inspired Moses to rely upon it (perhaps even in part) bc He (God) knew it was a worthy source. PS Just because a non-Biblical source pre-dates the Biblical one does not mean it is more accurate telling of the event(s), or perhaps it is just another perspective on the same events.

[@biblicist1014]

Yes, take God's word literally, Enoch was exactly who God said he was.

[@Papasquatch73]

Michael Heiser believes in inerrancy iand believes that the word of God is inspired and infallible. Question is what do all those words mean when you use them versus someone else

[@madMagicplayer]

Do you understand high and low context cultures? The ages of the patriarchs could be truth in the sense that they point to a message that members of the culture would have understood but as modern readers the context evades us.

[@scottintexas]

@@madMagicplayer Ancient Near East (ANE) context is challenging bc it was so long ago and archaeological records are fewer (and dating is also challenging). This is why the Bible is so valuable, it often provides that context and it has yet to be found inaccurate (honest analysis of the archaeological record always supports the Bible record).

[@madMagicplayer]

@@scottintexas "often" providing context is not the same as "always" providing context. This is true of the older texts of the old testament. Hence the discussion. Other examples of high context cultural writing would include God's curse of the serpent. Why would God curse a snake to be on it's belly when that is what snakes do? Or perhaps the word nahash which can me diviner/deceiver/serpent is not literally talking about a snake but a heavenly being, whom God curses to be cast down to the dust. I'm eygotian culture such angelic serpent beings were believed to exist, and paintings on tombs can be found of them. Serpents were also symbols of wisdom.

[@olsonlr]

I heard the colophons are an indication of authorship indicating that Noah would have taken the a preflood record with him on the arc. If so it would predate all other writings on earth.

[@HawgJawn]

I imagine there are probably multiple other sources that both Genesis and Sumerian Kings list draw from, that go all the way back to Noah. The early chapters of Genesis is the most ancient history source on the planet.

[@jaredyoung5353]

Makes sense to me

[@Nerv316]

Do you believe donkeys can talk? Hard to believe but it happened. Same as with the age of these people.

[@ses5736]

It's believable, reason? When the Bible discusses animals talking it's discussing when the PARANORMAL is involved not normally (Unlike Islam) the ages of Adam to Noah is left for interpretation..

[@Nerv316]

@@ses5736 Not sure why anyone would try to interpret someone's age. Just take the text at face value. Jacob lived to 147.

[@andrewhg1323]

Do you belive the Sun is free energy?? Hard to belive

[@iretonjeff2559]

@@ses5736 you don't even bother giving any reason why they would be up for interpretation? What's the problem with taking them at face value?

[@samf8887]

@@anahata3478 and yet there is nothing in context to imply a symbolic use for the age instead of literal. And please provide sources of said extra biblical instances of symbolic age usage so we can actually study and see if that is indeed the case

[@RichLuciano1]

It looks like the believers BC would not need to debated the age of the earth, but probably debated the age of their forefathers.

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

That's right! It is a certainty. I can forgive old earthers. You miss the deep meaning by rejecting the literal tine line.

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

Enoch is Christ who returns after 7 millennium. A day for a year. Enoch was 7 and predicted the SECOND coming. Christ is the Greater light which came in the midst of the week of millennia. As well as the week of years from Daniel.

[@drummerboy737]

@@Jamie-Russell-CME why didn't they mention Enoch was the savior?

[@DerrickthePinecone]

@@Jamie-Russell-CME That's total rubbish. There's nowhere in the Scriptures that indicates it is ENOCH instead of CHRIST that's coming. Sounds very cult-ish.

[@elsanto8505]

Houseform Apologetics your KZbin videos, account or links of the videos has been infected

[@gabrielhaskins705]

Thank God for heiser man..

[@BneeEmet]

Tequfah don't forget that. If we follow the calender of Noakh we will see that the year was 365 and once a 4 years 366 days. That is why if we just follow what Yah gave, follow the sun, the Holy Days will be always on a fixed day.

[@vegahimsa3057]

The Hebrew Genesis 5 is singular. "The days of Enoch is 365 year.. he walked with God ... and was not" a 52 x 7 day week, the first day of the new year (not death, walk) was the 365th day. An entire leap week every seven years, another within 28 years.

[@suzannehartmann946]

What calendar of Noah. He did not write one who deduced one?

[@BneeEmet]

@@suzannehartmann946 hi Suzanne, what I mean with Noahs calendar is that if you have to count the story dates you will duscover that there is 6 months of 31 days and 5 of 30 days and 1 month of 29 days and once in the 4 th year of 30 days gulfilling a year of 365 days and every 4 th year of 366 days.

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

MIKE chaistic history, isaiah says he told us by his creation. O ye transgressors hearken back to the beginning. The day is a thousand years. History and Gods major interventions. 5 chapters back from Revelation 22 we see the seven heads with ten horns. Chaistic match with the patriarchs 7 from Adam was taken from the 10 which names preach the gospel of Christ. Oh yes, just look at the context Gen 4 God promises the seed of the woman and then the sons of god and their names tell us the gospel. The blessed or praised god Shall come down Teaching At his death brings The lamenting Comfort. Break Methuselah down into 3 root words. He died the year God sent the flood. Longsuffering to give this man who's name was a prophecy lived longer than any man who ever lived and died. "AT HIS DEATH BRINGS 'IT' "

[@dawvidben-huir8101]

I noted that you mentioned that the gospel is contained in Genesis 5, what you failed to mention the names of Adam = Man, Seth = Appointed, Enosh = Mortal & Cannan = Sorrow, or to start your sentence 🙄 Man appointed mortal sorrow, when the blessed one of G-d, shall come down, teaching His death shall bring the disparing comfort ( I added your sentence to the end which tells us why the names that you mentioned are important for us. ) 🕎🌏🌍🌎✝️ Love and blessings to you and your families, let us not tire of what we have been given by G-d to do, until he calls us home or he returns to establish His Eternal Kingdom.🙂

[@forwardsdrawkcab]

It thrns out that that rendering is too good to be true. Heiser addresses it in one of his podcasts iirc.

[@garethrobinson1729]

And where in the Bible dose it say this?

[@appa32472]

Altho the other Enoch was mentioned, I wonder why.

[@djgamingdragon969]

Because the other enoch of tubal cain is not of Adam but of the serpent seed. abel and Seth were of Adams seed

[@dawvidben-huir8101]

One was called Enosh, the other that walked with G-d, then was no more was Enoch, please dear brothers and sisters, write down the names of the men in the Genealogy of Genesis 5 🙄 write down in order what their names mean, then you will find out why G-d gives people particular names. 🕎🌏🌍🌎✝️

[@suzannehartmann946]

There are NO unique names in the Bible, making sure to mention good guys AND bad guys with the same name is God's way of reminding you there is a hungry lion prowling around waiting to devour you and he uses DECEPTION.

[@djgamingdragon969]

@@suzannehartmann946 youre so dumb lol

[@dawvidben-huir8101]

@@suzannehartmann946 I have to seriously ask, where do you get this understanding from, it is clear that you are not Semitic. 🕎🌏🌍🌎✝️

[@Jgfhujnggg23342]

Is there a theory that it may may have been a line of Enoch? Like the 365 years could it be like the direct lineage of Enoch for 365 years 365 years of these people walking with G-D, I mean is there a theory for anyone with these long ages it being a long line of people, for example When Methuselah lived 782 years” “would be more a clan of people from Methuselah that were in some sort of power for 782 years? I mean I don’t know it’s crumbling apart as I type it but a question nonetheless!!!

[@hglundahl]

4:55 Why would Moses count on his readers knowing the SKL at all? If he humanly speaking knew of it (other possibility, he never heard of it, but God raised him up to correct it), it would have been at Pharao's court, through diplomacy. That would have stopped before he came into contact with the people he took out of Egypt.

[@justfloat1]

Its interesting, what if time was considered different? Instead of a year being counted like we do now, due to no seasons like now? It seems to me the moon was considered more of the main clock vs the sun now, what if the sun was different like in the electric universe theory? Then the moons cycle would be the go to. If you divide these long life spans by 12 instead, it brings a mans life in line with our own today. Adams 930 by 12 = 77.5 yrs. is the bible trying to just tell us the early solar system’s sun wasn’t the one we have now? Like the electric universe’s theory shows, that came later, and doesn’t it say in the bible that He will “shake” the heavens one more time Hebrew 12:26! Just a thought.....

[@donthomas4793]

Lorne that could be as good as an explanation as any God bless you

[@justfloat1]

@@donthomas4793 i cant wait until Jesus sets us down and reveals it all to us, until then, we need to look, listen, and ask for God’s Holy Spirit to help us learn from what is written. What a fantastic day that will be, at the feet of Jesus, learning what God’s plan for man has been even before the foundation of the earth was brought into existence. I have to admit, its deep, thorough, and all there before us. This world has blinded us with distortions, thats true, but i do know with great knowledge comes great distress as well as great responsibility. Jesus really did finish it, we just have to except the gift being given. No one can add to it, or repay God’s gift back to him. On our most magnanimous day of trying to, is at best filthy, its very humbling. May God bless you all.

[@donthomas4793]

@@justfloat1 Absolutely my brother if you remember Luke chapter 24 verse 45 after his resurrection The Bible says he had to open their minds to the Scriptures after all they seen, walking with him he still had to open their mind to the Scriptures. I ask the Holy Spirit to do that every day and the more I learn the more I realize what I do not know but what I do know is that Jesus is my Lord my Redeemer and I will worship no other

[@forwardsdrawkcab]

So what if God did a recap of pre flood history by means of Moses' writings?

[@dawvidben-huir8101]

If you would like to know what the significance of the Genealogy, from Adam to Noah is. 🙄 Please discover what their names mean, then formulate a sentence, then you will discover the reason why G-d inspired holy men to write or ( Theological teaching ) I hope that this helps. 🕎🌏🌍🌎✝️

[@Unborn-Lives-Matter]

Yeah, been there, done that, and it is really very interesting. Good point!

[@dawvidben-huir8101]

@@Unborn-Lives-Matter Keep up with the work, that Ha-shem, has given you to do for His Kingdom, through the power of the Ru-ch Ha_ Kodesh, by letting the world know that Ye-hua is the Massiach of the universe. I look forward to meeting you, when the Kingdom Comes in ALL its fullness. Psalm 133 🕎🌏🌍🌎✝️

[@Unborn-Lives-Matter]

@@dawvidben-huir8101 Yes, we must meet up. I'll keep a look out for you! Blessings Brother!

[@djonalexander3628]

Chuck missler covers this in his video.

[@dawvidben-huir8101]

@@djonalexander3628 I did not realise that 😳 I asked my Zada ( grandfather ) about this just before I was to graduate from Yeshiva ( rabbinical school ) 🙄 now instead of listening to what men, say about Ha-shem 😥 now I listen to what Ha-shem said about Himself while He was here, 🙏😀😀 and I am Filled. 🕎🌎🌍🌏✝️

[@leonardharper7885]

I have a question. If everyone other than Noah and his family perished in the flood, including the nephilim, how were they giants and Nephilim in the promise land?

[@junkaccount2535]

I think there's a Jewish tradition that says one of the kings escaped and/or Noah's bloodline wasn't completely pure. Heiser has talked about it somewhere before, can't remember tho.

[@benjaminhart7673]

Noah was perfect in his generation, so his sons also, but not noahs daughter in laws, which could have passed on nephilim traits. Im just guessing!

[@pronewbofficial]

Genesis 6:4 NASB says, "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown." It seems to me that the sons of God did the same thing after the flood that they did before the flood.

[@benjaminhart7673]

How do we reconcile that thought with peter and jude saying God punished them and they are in eternal chains?

[@fromdeathtolife2076]

Benjamin Hart God punished them afterwards?

[@jasonleveck8546]

Lot of folks wanna make a big deal about sumerian and or mesopotamian influence on the bible or that it somehow makes the Gen 6 and Enoch accounts false. That's just ignorance. Who do we think a lot of what became jews were or came from. It was people of the nations. Most of everyone was at coming from the land of Canaan. This was a relatively small region of the world. From Turkey in the East to Egypt/Africa in the west and some north and or south. Lot of these people and their heritages are coming from the same or similar lines.

[@vegahimsa3057]

The days of Enoch is 365 year.

[@Unborn-Lives-Matter]

I started writing this before Dr. Heiser's dissertation was over so I am afraid some of it is redundant. 52 X 7 = 364 not 365. The actual solar calendar is 364.25 day per year, plus a small amount of error. Lunar calendars are not dead and still in use for calculating days of feasts, Passovers, celebrations and so on. Not sure why it really matters, I am afraid, in some of these discussions, though potentially interesting, doesn't really affect our salvation. I can wait for seminary classes in Heaven. Still, it is definitely intriguing. Let's practice the KISS principle in evangelism: Keep It Simple Stupid! Use Occam's Razor in other endeavors?

[@vegahimsa3057]

@@Unborn-Lives-Matter the Genesis genealogy is an obvious reference to the Book of Enoch which describes a 364 day calendar (365 inclusive) with a seven year jubilee (leap week every seven years) and additional rarer grand jubilees.

[@jasonleveck8546]

@@vegahimsa3057 isn't there something that's pagan or has to do with the watchers, in reference to lunar calendars? I thought I read or heard that we should be on a solar calendar, but it's lunar instead?

[@dlbard1]

Sometimes an apple is just an apple.

[@JavierFernandez01]

And other times its different?

[@youngknowledgeseeker]

Sometimes it’s a tesseract that we must keep out of Loki’s hands at all times!

[@DerrickthePinecone]

And sometimes it's simply a "fruit"!

[@blacksheep6365]

A fruit is never JUST a fruit. Fruit carries seeds... seeds grow into plants, some of them rather invasive. Blackberries, for example.

[@marcusdumitru]

It seems like our modern time conflict between evolutionists and creationists. They are all looking at the same testimony (data), but draw different conclusions based on their worldview. Ones are considered blasphemous, others orthodox. The same way, the conflict of ideas between YaHWeH's people and the Mesopotamians. It doesn't matter who put it first in written. Both were looking at the same testimony of history and mithology, drawing different conclusions. It is a war on ideas and recovering orthodoxy. The Jews attacked what they considered blattant lies. It should never be seen as if the Bible is recycling older foreign materiales, but as an apologetical and theological response to human and demonic manipulation of truth.

[@drummerboy737]

@Resurrected Eyes i dont think he was arguing against belief

[@thethreeofus2620]

Superficially plausible until one actually exegetes the text, then the whole thesis falls flat.

[@anatomicallymodernhuman5175]

Enoch is in two biblical genealogies of people we know existed, including Jesus. And Hebrews lifts him up as an example of living by faith. Of course he was a real person. Anybody who says he wasn't simply denies God's word.

[@jasonleveck8546]

Facts!

[@erickeenan7562]

364 very well could have been the pre-flood year. The cataclysmic events of the flood probably disrupted the rotation and tilt of the earth to create the very odd 365.24.

[@linqtrader]

And what if the earth is NOT a spinning ball of water? See Rob Skiba’s videos. Very illuminating!

[@missywilson8770]

The earth doesn't move. Source, the bible

[@N3RDS4V4GE]

Michael Dunlow The Bible’s the best but you can always check the Michelson and Morley experiments for more modern examples clearly demonstrating a non-rotating earth.

[@JamieAllen1977]

obviously they're both trying to record the same events

[@patp3800]

This makes me sad...most people have very poor math skills and little to no knowledge concerning astronomy physics and the other sciences....most of this will make no sense to the majority of your audience

[@johnmainwaring6556]

Abraham was from Chaldea, the Euphrates delta (Iraq/Babylonia) The origins of Israel are from this region so it's no wonder the exiled Israelites drew on these sources without a massive problem. It's a bronze age text, probably re-cast and retold from the point of view of the people of Yahweh. At very least a scholar should be open to this idea as a genuine possibility.

[@patp3800]

The sons of heaven were created before mankind

[@iretonjeff2559]

Nothing about this sounded really biblical.

[@suzannehartmann946]

Really? He quoted scripture repeatedly. The discussion about 364/365 related to every part of the bile concerning feast days which is most books of the Bile including the New Testament. Discussing WHY certain things are in the Bible and Why they look like Sumerian texts takes ammunition away from critics who do things like convince my son the Bible is not true so now he is not saved.

[@andrewhg1323]

I thunk 364 days are the days on a year, make more sense than 365 and every 4 years 366, but I cant prove it yet with numbers, Gues need a Sun light meassure tool to prove it on Every spring Equinoce

[@to-ly6mt]

So if you're late for work??? It's Enoch' fault!!!

[@lukasmakarios4998]

Before the Flood, they probably counted their age not in years but in months. A thousand months is 81 years and a few months. The multiplication factor is 12.369. So the antediluvian patriarchs probably lived full lives, in line with what we might live today. Compared to most people in their day, who thought 40 was really old, this was a sign of God's favor. However, if God really was set on diminishing the blessing of original contingent immortality, a thousand years is a conceivable place to start counting down from. And a peremptory removal of the blessing after the Flood, since He was fed up with us, makes equally acceptable sense. All I know is, if God wants to give us redeemed lifetimes of 1,000 years, contingent on our keeping close to Him for its sustaining and renewal, then that would be perfectly acceptable to me. P.S. Every time you talk about some kind of hidden esoteric code stuff, it calls all of the lunatic fringe out of the woods.

[@vld7850]

Endless gibberish as usual

[@MaximilianonMars]

This is clearly someone who doesn't believe the word of God speaking. God isn't the author of confusion. Numerology is for the Cabalists, not the Christians who are God's chosen people.

[@jaredyoung5353]

Keep looking into this subject. The Bible wasn't written in a vacuum and ideas from the area informed/influenced Biblical writers. The Bible had to be understood by the reader after all. Therefore it will naturally have ideas from the time in it. lol don't worry it bothered me to atfirst till I let those ideas sink in

[@str.77]

Max Falto, you clearly don't know Michael Heiser well. You're also overlooking a lot of numbers symbology even in the New Testament. Finally, Christ is the Word of God.

[@gotredeemed]

The Book of Enoch (required reading for this discussion) goes into great detail about the luminaries. He explains a detailed witness of the heavens, so that people who were responsible for the lunar calendar, could accurately define the new moon etc. "14And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to distinguish between day and night and to mark the seasons and days and years, 15and let them serve as lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth.”

[@starwarsisdead5731]

@@gotredeemed The Book of Enoch contradicts so many other scriptures it should only be used as toilet paper.

[@acaydia2982]

The Hebrew Alphabet is also a numeric system. Who would be the ultimate mathematician? Probably the One that created the system. A system can be used by anyone, but it was created by The Creator and proves His perfection.

[@ChrisMusante]

Enoch #7, days of the week, walked with God 365/24/7.... if you do what is right... will you not be... 'taken' (accepted). When you a vessel is filled with a 'spirit' the vessel (you) will be consumed by it. Even to the point where you will bit have anything left that is 'you' - and "you" will 'be' no more. I believe I remember something about 1 day being as a year somewhere (also) to God. Only the Holy Spirit, God's Spirit can produce this filling, giving one balance in all things. See my video on the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil, and the resultant 'moral compass'.

[@PracticalBibleStudies]

Nope.

[@aprilbrillon7]

I wonder who kept the whole King’s list for all them years even after the flood it was a different people went down every generation or something or was it just one guy because if it was one guy that would be believable too because if the kings lasted that long that means people lasted that long and that means he could’ve kept it alive for all them years even after the flood because that’s means he didn’t change because we changed of age I wonder if he still alive if he just lost the list and he still alive or he put it in somebody else’s hands and they went down generation generation and then it just got lost through time