Unpacking the 8 Passengers Allegations | Therapist Talks Ruby Franke and Jodi Hildebrandt

[@jenniferedwards1752]

One of the things that strikes me is that her children automatically lie and hide what they have done. This is a NATURAL behavior of abused children. Abused children lie, hide, and deny all behavior they think they might "get in trouble" for. It's a survival technique. These poor children have been abused their entire lives.

[@jaylynn8630]

That's a great point.

[@AaaaNinja]

Jodi's niece Jessi said as a child Jodi would accuse her of things and she would admit to them just to get her to leave her alone because she was so pushy. And that would include being accused of accessing pornography, even when she didn't know what that was.

[@yuenmienyu]

I remember when my dad was emotionally abvsing me and physically abvsing my younger sibling in 2019, I tried to tell my then-therapist about it. I remember crying and asking her all sorts of questions, so it was obvious I was calling for help (because my school counsellor wasn't the best & my only "friend" was bullying me W/ other girls in the class) when my therapist was like "I'm going to have to call the protection services" I started begging for them not to, going "oh no my dad is a really kind man, idk what to do". I was so scared my parents would figure out about me speaking about it to someone out of the family. my mum was always very chill about the way my dad was touching my younger sibling, even though it was clearly gross, so even then I couldn't talk to her about it. and when I told my therapist, I said something like "please don't tell my mum", but my therapist just told her and when we were in the car after the session. my mum was like "what happens in the house needs to stay in the house", "there are people facing DV" (to make me feel better in the most manipulative way possible) etc. it's just so sad. my mum doesn't have that belief anymore, she is much kinder now (still not a perfect parent, but nobody is perfect). I started getting su1c1dal thoughts because I felt hopeless in life as a whole. but anyway, i am doing much better now and my dad stopped his stuff. it's really important for someone to have someone to talk to, especially at school because that's when your parents can't access you so quickly

[@ArtisticlyAlexis]

@@yuenmienyu**BIG VIRTUAL HUG** That's so similar to my past, gaslighting myself into thinking it was okay, that it wasn't that bad, that if it got out it was obviously _MY_ fault. My mom was terrified of it getting out how terrible my dad could be, because she was scared of raising 5 kids alone w/o his fancy job's income. My dad (RIP) was a complex figure in my past because we were all wrapped up in his manic abusive episodes, being the most fun person one sec, but also being terrifying the next. Ugh. Life is sometimes way too complex to want to deal with it.

[@Kstanimal]

​@@yuenmienyuyour dad needs to go to jail holyyyy. I'm sorry all the adults in your life failed you so much 😢

[@feliciasjoberg9886]

The PRIVILEGE of MEALS?? Ruby's estimated net worth is 1 - 5 MILLION DOLLARS!!!! (according to a quick Google search) WTF

[@gloryv188]

These abusers are always sitting on a pile of money. Jill Dillard just wrote in her book that JB had multiple planes, cars and ATVs while withholding their paychecks

[@per-netjereweclectickemeti93]

@@gloryv188who’s jb

[@ChristyH-B]

​@@gloryv188I literally just finished listening to Jill's book fifteen minutes ago. The control he had over them was insane. Not ruby insane, that's another level, but he was still incredibly manipulative and the emotional and financial abuse was horrendous.

[@cariann2220]

And how did she make the money? Off tormenting her children. They paid for those meals she refused to give them. They paid for that house that she said everything inside of it was hers.

[@DarkbutNotsinister]

And it’s the ways she says it. “You’re going to bed without dinner” sounds better. Also- it didn’t mean you weren’t getting dinner. It meant mom would bring a pb&j about 8pm. By 8pm, you had accepted your fate, dying from hunger. This was pretty normal for me. I didn’t LOVE pb&j, but I wasn’t (really) starving.

[@mommyofkittens4809]

It’s pretty telling that Jodi’s clients (victims) have been afraid to speak out until her arrest.

[@bookcat123]

Adam Steed has apparently been trying to speak out for a while. It’s just no one was listening until now.

[@bees5461]

@@bookcat123 He was stabbed in the back for speaking out. His story broke my heart and I admire him so much for taking all that pain and suffering and doing good in the world with it. He seems like such a beautiful person.

[@miranda1717]

​@@bees5461his interview on Mormon Stories broke my heart. What both Jodi and the LDS church did to him is horrifying 💔

[@hanatemonstas4485]

@@bees5461Even now, YT took down his interview because his wife issued a court order (possibly on Jodi’s behalf too)

[@bees5461]

@@hanatemonstas4485 I heard about that, but I appreciate the heads up anyway, probably some people hadn't heard about it. I hope it comes back up at some point, maybe after the trial. I'm glad I saw it before they had to pull it.

[@TamedWildFierceRainbow]

Wow, I had no idea that when I lost the birth lottery and happened to have a man as a “dad” who sexually abused me for 20 years that I was in distortion and I simply enjoy swimming in my CPTSD. I just love the crippling fear and anxiety so much that I choose it…

[@krystin_stand4truth]

I'm so sorry! I hope you find peace ❤

[@Sputterbug]

I hope their words didn't negatively affect you too much, you deserve a great life

[@dianemurray6550]

Fundies will blame an infant for "tempting" their father into CSA. Never lose sight of the fact that THEY are the crazy ones. Sending love and light your way. ❤

[@elyse443]

I’m really sorry that happened to you. Sincerely.😢

[@mellessin1191]

same pal im so sorry

[@owen5758]

On the troubled teen industry, I was actually sent to a “troubled teen” program from ages 13-14 that basically followed the wilderness model. The things these programs consider “privileges” is absolutely WILD, ranging from access to a fire in the freezing Maine winter to the ability to season our food.

[@erikavaleries]

Oh no, like Paris Hilton?

[@michaw.2168]

That must have been horrible! I hope you are ok now. How did your family react knowing what goes on in them, as more and more information comes out. I wish all the best for you.

[@ElijahsMimi]

Was it in Bath, Maine? I know someone who was sent there.

[@thesingerintheshower]

😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢 I'm so upset 😡 😫 😭 😤 😩

[@owen5758]

@@michaw.2168 The program outright told my parents not to believe the things I told them, as I was “just trying to go home and get into trouble”. A lot of kids had their relationship with their parents severely damaged even though the program claimed to want to help reunify families.

[@immanenteffigy8929]

Her podcast is insane. Saying that PTSD is just made up to feel better about not healing and that everyone that doesn't think so is wrong is literally cult leader behavior

[@talynhastime9343]

I dare her to say that to a veteran or a victim of rape.

[@kellizafer9828]

@@talynhastime9343In Jodi's book she disclosed that she was the victim of SA twice in her childhood and that her method of dealing with it was to "forget it." Then when a therapist made her bring it out into the open she felt she didn't get better and then basically (this is my interpretation) swore off the entire field of counseling and decided she knew better than anyone else on the earth. Meanwhile she's clearly not coping. That whole PTSD rant made me livid and I don't even have PTSD.

[@madymars6819]

"All my trauma is completely healed!" Honey, you abuse your children and show all the traits of a narcissist while not really being capable of empathy for your own children. Denial is an amazing coping mechanism 😬

[@dinosaysrawr]

It also unironically SCREAMS "unrecognized and unresolved trauma" to me. I hear a person who has internalized the callousness, cruelty, and insensitivity they themselves have been shown, and now takes it out on others in order to reify and affirm that their way of being and seeing is right and true.

[@stillhere1425]

I’ll bet active and former combat military love that. Also police, emergency medical professionals, survivors of bombings and shootings…

[@wisdomqueencrafts]

Ruby says "this happens often when raising children." This tells me this has happened to every single one of her other children

[@kellizafer9828]

Also she mentions that she knows the teacher is uncomfortable with her being hungry. How does she know that unless this was a repeated pattern?

[@talynhastime9343]

@@kellizafer9828Good point! It’s also messed up for the teacher because if they try to help the kid, they’ll get chewed out by Ruby. There is also no guarantee that a five-six year old will keep the secret of being secretly fed by a classmate or teacher, so if the kid does let slip that info, Ruby will also descend upon the school with “you’re interfering with my parenting! You’re teaching her to lie to her parents!! 😡🤬🤬”. In essence, the teacher is held hostage to perpetuate the abuse or risk reprimand and complaints by the abusive parent.

[@spOOkytimes]

​@@talynhastime9343 abusers tend to be practiced at getting information out of their victims, especially when they are not afraid to withhold basic necessities on a whim.

[@kellizafer9828]

@@talynhastime9343 I would hate to be a teacher in that position. I think I would give her food though. Unless I thought it would lead to further punishment for the girl once she got home. It's so sad because it is a proven fact that kids can't learn well on an empty stomach.

[@LSSYLondon]

@@talynhastime9343 I would go to the admin and let them know "this parent is refusing to bring their child food... this is the x time this has happened... I am feeding the child and I need you to support me on this bc the child has adhd and is 6 and the parent is possibly abusive."

[@jdanisse]

Jodi was the therapist for the son who was sent to the wilderness camp. There's video of him talking about her by name and talking about her teachings. It's upsetting that Jodi was able to destroy so many lives for so long. And Ruby and her together were like fire and gasoline.

[@rebeccaabram2312]

And in that vid where Kevin was defending the parenting he also stated they were advised by a 'Licenced Therapist' to take these steps with their kids. We now know that Therapist was Jodi which makes you wonder how long has Jodi been worming her way into that family. Note Jodi's long term involvement and past history is the ONLY reason why I am giving Kevin a small amount of grace until proven otherwise.

[@stacyray25]

Jodi is a cult leader and needs to be identified as such!! The only thing is she couldn’t bring anyone together!! All she does is destroy!! She is definitely the Satan that I learned about in church my whole life! Steal, kill, and destroy!! Also the church should come under some responsibility for referring to her!!

[@ATLmodK]

And may not even have had her license when he made that comment. Ruby should never be able to see her kids again, and Kevin should be made to take parenting classes and then have only have supervised visits with the kids.

[@mandi4794]

She was also the therapist for either Ruby's brother or brother in law. And then she treated Ruby and her husband in marriage counseling. So many conflicts of interest!

[@justkiddin84]

@@ATLmodKI think that may be too nice. I don’t think he should have access to them at all. His students at BYU left many reviews about him being abusive-physically and mentally in the classroom. Yet, BYU keeps him there.😡

[@marigo5951]

“they don’t know what love feels like“ a mother about her children. Wow.

[@loralieisa]

Another Chris Watts apparently.

[@ferencercseyravasz7301]

That shook me too to the core. Every time I look into my daughter's eyes, the way she looks at me, I've never seen a love more pure, more powerful. I always feel like I don't deserve it... I guess she never looked into her children's eyes or else she is blind to anything except power, control and cruelty. That's an Umbridge-like character if there ever was one.

[@cheeto.burrito]

"They don't know what it feels like to be loved" more like.

[@giannaleng1897]

That was a big yikes for me 😬 That seems like a YOU problem, Ruby. Maybe you suck at parenting and that’s why your children haven’t learned what love feels like 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@pie1o1morris46]

I thought she was saying that about people who criticize her parenting, but her talking about her own kids makes sense.

[@vampires18]

When I was beginning my downward spiral, i ended up with a male therapist who was in his mid 50s and had a office in this big complex that felt super empty. He asked for my phone number (for unprofessional reasons). I was 19. I did not seek therapy again until I was 26. Thank you for talking about professionalism and boundaries.

[@TheSightOfTheStars]

Jordan and McKay are wonderful ex Mormon content creators who have been covering this situation for several years, and Jordan is also a licensed clinical social worker, if anyone does want more detailed timeline. They also go out of their way to protect the privacy of the minor children involved in this.

[@mommyofkittens4809]

Jordan and McKay have done an amazing job on this.

[@Boss_Lady.325]

Good to know, thank you. I need to check them out

[@LustStarrr]

Their conversation on Fundie Fridays was really interesting too.

[@Cbbartelt]

Jordan is not a licensed clinic social worker. She recently graduated but is under supervision as a therapist in training and can not get licensed until she gets enough hours.

[@frenchtoastemergency]

Good clarification, and I want to add that Jordan is very clear about this herself.

[@taschab4661]

I honestly believe the only reason Ruby got away with this behaviour is because she is a conventionally attractive rich white women. If she'd been anything else she would have been taken down long before she was.

[@melsoft121]

My husband was listening in on a video about this and he asked how no one has done anything about this. When I told him she’s been reported and investigated he was appalled, but when you go into a rich person’s house and it’s big, clean, and well organized so they just have to put on an act while you’re being investigated. A poor family, they are more likely to find clutter (can’t necessarily afford multi-purpose items or a good storage system in a smaller space) and less likely to have time to clean frequently with no ability to pay someone to do it for them. Between training and implicit biases, it is 100% easier for a rich person to get away with being a child abuser.

[@haileyoslund]

@@melsoft121I agree with what you’ve stated here. I’m a therapist and at times I work with clients involved with DHS. I have noticed a bias for sure. There are cases that I feel they close too quickly and other cases that seem to drag on for a long period of time, and the difference is often financial resource based. :(

[@chokinonashes61]

Absolutely, plus ''my religious freedom''!

[@leahsanders798]

@@melsoft121 thank you! I feel like no one ever brings this up. There's so much classism involved in the child welfare system, and it harms children across the socioeconomic spectrum.

[@darlaspafford-davis7087]

I 100% understand and agree with what you are saying here. But.....she's....not pretty??

[@goodradoodles1549]

37:45 Speaking as someone who has been on fire in front of my mother, her analogy is rather amusing. My mother saw I was on fire and attempted to snuff the fire out by beating it, but I thought there was a spider on me and ran from her without noticing the fire. It was put out because my mum stopped trying to chase me and yelled ‘You’re on fire!’

[@eevee2411]

My dad once tried to pull an icecream cone out of my hand because there was a wasp on it & I was about to lick it because i didn't notice. As a 6 year old, I was guarding that ice cream with my life and pulled it back towards me, hitting my face & causing the wasp to sting above my lip. It's kind of funny now but if he would've said 'Wasp!' or something, I would've just stopped in my tracks and crisis would have been averted lolll

[@loralieisa]

@@eevee2411 That's Hilarious story so long as the wasp didn't sting you.

[@hopefulmonsters4407]

Genuinely, if darkly, funny.

[@SadNThik]

Ok I’m autistic so far be it from me to comment on anyone’s tone but the disdain, the condescension, and the hate dripping from the voices in the podcast is really incredible. It’s not just me right?

[@hollyswackyworld]

I'm autistic and you are not alone. I picked up on it super fast which is worrying.

[@biohazard3474]

I picked it up and it made me extremely anxious

[@CentaurTesticles]

Jodi is super uncomfortable for NDs everywhere. I hate that she is so awful that even people with fewer social skills are scared of her. It really shows how fucked up she truly is.

[@emmathompson7706]

Oh she’s a psychopath, it’s creepy.

[@x-X-PlagueDoctor-Xx]

I have ADHD, and probably autism too, and yeah, I could *feel* the hatred and disdain coming from her voice, and it made me feel so anxious and angry..

[@guytrashgurtdog]

Off topic but as a trans person I love your little “trans people belong here” sign and appreciate the support!! Also it’s so cool and necessary that KZbin now lets you know when a licensed mental health professional is talking about a topic!

[@supercrazylegs1]

Same. It's refreshing to see cis people advocating for trans people. And, surprise, there's a Connexions video of Jodie and Ruby talking about how "transgender" is a "made up term" and therefore, being transgender isn't valid. I really like the Swoop video, where Swoop says, "You know what else is a made-up term? 'Certified Mental Fitness Coach.' and you call yourself that."

[@emmathompson7706]

I agree!

[@aimeepearl693]

As a mom to a trans kid, I so appreciate it too! ❤

[@abbywolf9701]

@@supercrazylegs1I love when people say “made up word” like.. all language is made up…

[@emmatfink]

I forget who said this quote, but “to have a tolerant society, we must be intolerant of intolerance.” That’s what I feel this content is doing. Thank you for never stopping in calling these people out. ❤

[@wooogie672]

the tolerance paradox!!

[@phthalo7401]

Karl Popper, I believe?

[@theMyRadiowasTaken]

​@@wooogie672the tolerance paradox isnt real because when you are intolerant you break a "social contract" (the term ive heard) and no longer have a right to tolerance

[@wooogie672]

@@theMyRadiowasTaken i would agree intolerant people don’t deserve tolerance, but the “social contract” specifically refers to a metaphorical contract between the state and its people in which the people are morally justified and even obligated to replace that government if it breaks the contract by not operating in the best interests of the people. it was coined by john locke during the enlightenment period and is one of the foundations of the US’s mythology of it’s founding (i say mythology because the social contract has continuously been broken ever since america’s inception). “social norms”/“mores” would be a better term. i’m sorry if this comes off condescending in any way; i’m autistic and probably just taking your comment too literally and am trying to better understand it as i’ve never seen people use that argument before until your comment. the tolerance paradox doesn’t really make a judgement on who should and shouldn’t receive intolerance; it just says that to be tolerant of everything is to be intolerant yourself, and to be truly tolerant one must be intolerant of some things; that “true” tolerance can never exist as it lets bad ideologies like religious fundamentalism and fascism take root in a society/state. it’s kind of like the saying “if you’re too openminded your head will fall out” that conservatives/centrists like to use against progressives when it actually applies to them. also /not mad!!

[@justkiddin84]

@@wooogie672right it’s the intolerance itself that is not to be tolerated, not the people. We have to try to reach them, if we can. Once they show that they refuse to learn, move on, and if they take it to a criminal level, it’s our civic duty to report that (part of the social contract).

[@TheHonorableAudio]

I know it is like a 4 hour long watch BUT Adam Paul Steed's recent episode on Mormon Stories Podcast is AMAZING. He is the gentleman whose wife was involved with Jodi while he was at BYU--and Jodi got him kicked out of BYU by using her position as a therapist to share (false) information with BYU leadership. Jodi is sick and twisted and has been doing this horrible stuff for YEARS.

[@ContextWrench]

he was on Hidden True crime podcast too

[@sasamafrass]

Adam knows how to get receipts too! His interview was amazing, Jodi is a monster.

[@NotCarolynFFS]

Mormon Stories has really been doing amazing work on this with both Adam's interview and the interview with Jodi's niece Jessi.

[@Pippins666]

This interview was really tragic, and it really upset me how Adam had clearly been destroyed by this woman - she took his wife (they has an "inappropriate relationship"), destroyed his university career, and his life within the Mormon "church". Hildebrandt should be in jail just for this perversion of justice, never mind the current shenanigans

[@beth2721]

I just finished the interview after listening over the past day or two, and I don’t think I’ve ever been so horrified or heartbroken over a Mormon abuse story ever. There needs to be a word worse than monster to describe that woman. And he is braver than a goddamn marine for sharing his story with the world. He deserves peace and healing

[@saltydinonuggies1841]

Hey don’t listen to the hate comments. I’m an ex Mormon and a survivor of childhood torture and you’re channel has helped me so much. If nothing else it reminds me that what my mother did to me wasn’t normal and it wasn’t okay.

[@zulemazahir666]

I second this, channels like this have helped me with normalization of things that shouldn't be normalized. Plus many more things. These channels are sooo important! Hope you can continue healing as well!

[@LaMara-vv2wq]

1. Say less. 2. I hope your egg donor suffers.

[@bingusdingus7417]

I'm glad I've found this channel, I'm very traumatized and still going through the system, trying to find like minded/understanding people. At least I know I'm not alone.

[@angelaa7388]

She couldn't help her 5 year old pack lunch, but she had plenty of time to put on falsies and make a video. I know that's not what the focus of this video is, and not even the worst thing this woman did, but it's unfortunate how many calls to CPS and how many people had valid concerns about this family, and this person was able to just fragile white lady her way out of trouble for so long.

[@kateemma22]

Narcissism is a helluva drug.

[@spOOkytimes]

She also sat around getting ready for an hour after S woke up with blurry vision and needed to go to an emergency room. That's straight up neglect.

[@mintyhippo8125]

Yeah, not really a time thing at that point. More of like a “I don’t really care” or even a vindictive thing.

[@sarasynfox]

Seriously! I thought she was talking about a teen when I first heard about it, because a teen forgetting their lunch, I can almost understand it, but a kindergarten kid? What's the kid gonna learn? Mommy doesn't care about them and they are unsafe at home. Sadly, I learned this the hard way (as a kid). Thankfully, many schools anticipate kids not having lunch, especially with food insecurity, so Ruby probably was horribly disappointed. I can only hope the school stepped up. They also document when these things happen, so hopefully that gets added to the stack of evidence.

[@genericplantlife]

Another layer of this that is SO frustrating to me is that Ruby and Jodi are absolutely convinced that they are right. This will probably just feel like martytdom to them instead of forcing them to recognize how evil they've been.

[@loralieisa]

Ruby stated the child that escaped was a corn addict since age 3 and was abusing other children sexually. I don't believe she told anything truthful. She is excruciatingly evil. The judge had to arrange for that son to live in a home with no other children I'd like to see his name cleared ASAP.

[@joshuabuchanan1141]

Those 2 both are not right at all, they should both be fucking ashamed of themselves

[@satansmuffintop2884]

My mom grew up in a cult, she was sent to rehab for "drug addiction" at age 12, even though she wouldn't have known how to access/do/even know what drugs were really. While watching this all go down, it has been very familiar to the stories my mom has told me about her family life and growing up in a cult. The cult my mom grew up in (They're called "2 by 2's" or "The Truth"/"The Way" - but they don't have 1 name really.) Is now being exposed for covering up for pedophilia, child abuse, and rape. All of which my mom experience by the hands of other cult members. I hope this 8 passengers shit will shine a light on the disgusting, normalized, and most times hidden from the public religions who do these things. Religion can be a beautiful thing for people- not for everyone. Edit: The cult my mom grew up in also believe they're the only ones going to heaven. Good way to manipulate followers. Women aren't allowed to wear pants, cut their hair, wear makeup, piercings- any bodily autonomy really. (And my mom grew up in Minnesota- so having to walk through the snow in a dress to school everyday- oof)

[@ricecake3215]

My mom was raised in a cult as well. It’s crazy to see her in her 50s still unlearning the horrible guilt they formed in her for being a human. I hope your mom is doing well & is able to heal from the cult 💓

[@satansmuffintop2884]

@@ricecake3215 thank you! And you as well 💖 sadly, my mom didn't get a very good start in life, even after eventually getting herself emancipated. My mom still has so much to unlearn and learn. She's just now realizing (at 61) she wasn't a perfect parent, and there were repercussions for raising me and my siblings with unhealed trauma like she had.

[@tanchella]

I don't know why nobody calles out Baptist Church for being abusive to girls. In the 90s I was going to said church and all things you listed applied to us: no piecing (they would repeayedly push me to take out earrings), no pants (we get proper winters in Estonia), no short hair, no makup, skirts below knee, but children born into church were wearing ankle length skirts. What is interesting, there were different requirements in churches for estonian-speakers (more relaxed) and russian-speakers (strict rules). I grew up in resort town, we have a beach here, it is lovely ib the summer. Girls from church were not allowed to wear bikinis, swimsuits, so they basically never went to sunbath or swim in the sea. I was doing all those things and was considered not a marriage material. My worst memory from that time is when 5 grown men, all current or former pastors, called me into the room in the church, locked the door and gave me a talk about modesty, that I will not be allowed to sing until I wear ancle-length skirt, remove earrings (mother's gift, I would never do it). 5 grown men againt a teenage girl. I was literally crying and shaking after that experience. This church is abusive damaging traumatising, I can't understand why it's not being talked about.

[@LSSYLondon]

I was raised in "The Way" Ministry International which was a unitarian cult. I never heard it called anything other than that. Is it the same thing? Wierwiell's teachings were all I heard for the first decade of my life.

[@emmathompson7706]

Hugs to you and your Mama ❤

[@beth2721]

if people would like to know more about Jodi’s so-called “therapy”, I would like to direct everyone to listen to the Mormon Stories Podcast Interviews of Jessi Hildebrant and Adam Paul Steed. They are quite long, and HEAVY HEAVY viewer discretion advised and heavy trigger warnings for CSA, Abuse, etc. but it is extremely important that we listen to and uplift and support the victims of Jodi’s horrific psychological and physical abuse. This woman has ruined lives and who knows how many more vulnerable people she has manipulated. Obviously Ruby is at the forefront of this case because of her internet fame, but Jodi is just as sinister and monstrous as her. Thank you for all you do, Mickey, and bringing to light how absolutely unethical Jodi is As a REAL mental health professional ♥️

[@Boss_Lady.325]

I watched both. Had to pause and literally step away for a few minutes and then go back to it, and I am not normally triggered. Their interviews are EXTREMELY important!!!

[@ATLmodK]

Just as long as people remember the abuse Ruby put upon her children even before Jodi came on the scene.

[@h3corptempbutevadinganass]

Yeah no from the coverage I've heard so.far it is without question Judy was just another person she manipulated who honestly was just using quite normal mormon "disciplining " amd she saw her fame and money and wanted.everytging to do with it so she just latched on, and tried to even act like everything she already taught that wasn't in line with Judy's now was, amd then of course present day.... she flew way too fucking close to the sun dealing w another abusive vlogger, Ethan from h3 brought up a great question which is like.... how the fk do two people that messed up and like are cool w torturing kids like how do two people like thay find each other? Dan's answer....Facebook?🤷‍♂️ And lmao like srsly a totally possible, even likely situation😅oh my

[@PanicattheDiscourse]

​@@h3corptempbutevadinganasstemple reccommends, but most likely Jodi sought her our. Remember the eldest son being in the wilderness camps? That was through Jodi. Perhaps this kid was caught with a nudy mag and that justifies taking his bed away for months /s

[@celiseballow7443]

I live in utah. Sadly this kind of abuse and neglect is comment in utah, especially in LDS families. That is part of why Utah is considered part of the s**cide belt.

[@sophiaguzman4757]

Honest question, does the su*ci*e belt include the same states as the Bible belt?

[@AZStamptramp]

Sometimes I think they should put a fence around the states of ID, UT and AZ ! One bad headline after another of such weird behavior. Lived AZ 36 years!

[@joshuabuchanan1141]

Unbelievable

[@smurph13]

I'm legit worried Ruby will end up going down a similar path to Lori Vallow. The extreme religious beliefs are already there. :/ Ruby's initial court appearances lend itself to this worry. Even if she ends up getting convicted and receives years in prison, I'm convinced she will remain steadfast that her kids are to blame. I really, really hope if she's convicted her sentence is long enough for the youngest kid to become an adult and they can all get far, FAR away from Ruby.

[@izba5747]

She absolutely has the same vibe, I'm sure that boy would have ended up in a shallow grave if he hadn't escaped.

[@LouisaWatt]

Absolutely hope so 🙏

[@loralieisa]

@@izba5747 The little girl also was in peril of losing her life.

[@arby64]

What she did to her kids was fcking awful. But thankfully this specific mother already has a direct spotlight on her abusive behaviour. I don't think she'll be able to harm her own children that way.

[@sasamafrass]

What is super scary is that Jodi will say something that sounds reasonable and then hits you with something ridiculous and twisted right after. Jodi and Ruby speak with such authority and conviction I can see how some people would think they know what they are talking about, especially in a high control religion that discourages critical thinking.

[@fourcatsandagarden]

'reasonable on the surface' is a very common tactic with people like her, its one of the many ways they get away with their behavior until it becomes horrifying.

[@eileenmullins3362]

Ķķkķ

[@nervousbreakdown711]

Right? Like that one video about childhood responsibility, most people would be like “well that makes sense. My child needs to do homework or chores without being nagged” which makes sense. But Jodi’s talking about becoming as self-sufficient as an adult with a career at age 3.

[@supercrazylegs1]

Yes, lots of people see confidence and confuse it with credibility. The most confident, smug, loudmouths get a lot of attention, but they are often very wrong.

[@spOOkytimes]

It's a VERY common propaganda/manipulation technique. Being reasonable/saying basic truths then leading into lies and manipulation. People don't become radicalized over night and its not only people who are mentally unwell.

[@causticpax]

I am a high school teacher with multiple degrees. I am so glad that you are talking about the credibility of degrees. Even though I am well-educated, in both content and the brain development/psychology of teens, I know my wheelhouse and get help. I told a student once that upon them saying something to me I was going to get a better adult to help them. You highlighted that these two people went out of their knowledge base. Thank you.

[@alwaysflushinpublic]

"I can't verify". OK, plz allow me. Take a look... anyone doubting their latter relationship? My point - being devoted to a religion where all LGBTQ's are sentenced to hell, apostates. But if u r and cannot deny it then only conflict & denial, lies and lies are ahead. IMO as a younger sister who saw her brother beaten so often he fled the home for safety. True.

[@motherofthetans]

My mother would've eaten Lori's teachings up with a spoon. Imagine empowering abusers with actual *permission* to abuse under the guise of effective, loving discipline! Further, I can guarantee that neither one of those poor kids did what they "confessed" to; they probably only said they did to make the immediate punishment stop. It's wonderful to see that a stop is being put to these two horrid women, but the kids will suffer from their actions for years if not the rest of their lives.

[@NameOfRain]

My mom would have loved this, too. I feel relieved that this wasn't around when I was a kid, and the traumatized part of me that is still a child and stuck in those memories is terrified.

[@loralieisa]

@@NameOfRain Therapy can help if you find the right therapist.

[@flamelily2086]

Thank goodness I had a sensible mother who didn't allow anyone to tell her how to bring up her children! We did get spanked occasionally but only for extreme defience. If we refused to eat a 6 were told we could go 5 we were not denied food, the food was there if we didn't eat it it was our choice. I am the eldest of five children and my mother couldn't afford to cater to picky eaters but never resorted to the methods used by these women!

[@PanicattheDiscourse]

You accidentally calling her Lori is apt in a dark way.

[@Insertia_Nameia]

Same with my dad. Much of what she said, the so called "explanations" (or rather bs excuses given,) and tones and wording used mirrored so much of what I grew upbwith from my dad. Thankfully I had my Mom to balance things put and give a better perspective (she unfortunately was a victim of his as well, especially after she got very sickly and was no longer able to support herself.) But him...I'm careful about saying this outloud to people irl, but as much as a shock and a bit sad I was when he first died (i wome up to find him dead on the kitchen floor when he wqs justbfinebwhen ibchecked on him just like 2 or 3 hrs before)...I kinda got over it pretty quick. Like it quickly became just trying to keep the house afloat, take care of my kids, and figure out what was going to be done with my older brother more than it was about his death.

[@foreverwander0320]

Mickey… my mom was so much like Jodi. That antagonistic tone was one I heard often growing up. Thank you for validating how painful and damaging parenting like hers is. TW below- . . . . . . She told me I was “getting a hit” from not eating when I was 14 (she’d been counting my calories since I was 10). She told me people only liked me because I was manipulative, to the point that I would warn people I was manipulative so I wouldn’t trick them on accident. She told me I wasn’t “spiritual enough” at 8 and punished me by not letting me play with friends. Any struggles I had-nightmares, anxiety, tics/stimming, shyness-were the result of demonic activity I was allowing in my life. If I was sick it was “my fault” for not praying hard enough and for “confessing” that I was sick. Very little compassion. I still struggle with guilt when I don’t feel good. I even apologized to the doctor when I was in labor for “being a baby about it.” She spanked me mercilessly. She once told me “When I realize I’m getting frustrated with you a lot I know I haven’t been spanking you enough.” She would buy gifts for my friends, in front of me. Tell me my friends were “so thin.” I excelled at school so she made a point of telling me school was unimportant and discouraged me from pursuing it. Didn’t come to my graduation, etc. Made fun of the time I “wasted.” I’m no contact with her now and in therapy (which has helped me be a different parent than she was!). Thank you, though for your content. I find so much validation and safety here.

[@camelopardalis84]

Your mother sounds like she has NPD. Not a clear-cut case to me, a layperson, but still. Kind of screams narcissism.

[@foreverwander0320]

@@camelopardalis84 Yeah, I know something is going on, but she’ll never seek out mental healthcare so I’ll never know for sure. Deconstructing and therapy are helping me to realize a lot about my childhood.

[@camelopardalis84]

@@foreverwander0320 The information was meant purely for you. I didn't even have the possibility of your mother doing something about her issues or learning something about herself in mind. (Although there's possible value in telling her what might be up with her should she ever ask you. I have noted that you are in no contact with her, though. Well done, by the way. Very well done. You can be proud of yourself. You're taking care of yourself.) I can tell you from both personal and "semi-personal" experience that it can do a lot of good to know what is up with one's parent. It helps put things into perspective. Not as in "relativising things", but simply explaining things. It helps you see things as not just an interpersonal issue, but something bigger, if you know that there is something specific up. A lot of people think that if they have a bad parent, that bad parent might still be a good grandparent to their child. And I can tell you that no, that's not the case. It's just a different kind of abuse that goes on in my experience.

[@foreverwander0320]

@@camelopardalis84Thank you. I suppose I have been hesitant to label things, mainly bc I’m not a doctor/her doctor. But since this would just be for me and my own healing and boundaries it makes sense to understand it better. Yes, I don’t want my own children exposed to it. In fact, having my own children was the thing that mobilized me to really pursing therapy and set boundaries with my family of origin. Thank you for the encouragement and insight. ❤

[@AROCODED]

​@camelopardalis8506 Why is the mother's potential disorders at all relevant to her actions here?? Also don't armchair diagnose an abuser with a stigmatized disorder??

[@Lynsey17]

If you haven't looked into these "troubled teen" rehabs - they are RAMPANT with all kinds of abuse and children have died at them. They are no joke.

[@loralieisa]

Sexual assault and vicious beatings are not uncommon either at those unregulated facilities. I can't understand how parents trust complete strangers with their children. Relationships between parent and child often break down because the children fault their parents for the horrors they experienced at the facilities.

[@eldrichnemo9312]

there's a long - I think still ongoing - web comic about a man's experience at the Elan school that put the fear of God in me in a way no form of religion ever did. It's ENRAGING to know there are thousands of kids being effectively imprisoned this way

[@Lynsey17]

@@eldrichnemo9312 The Elan School was at least partially based on Synanon and heavily used its "game" in their "therapy" which is just terrifying. That institution was horrific and I can't imagine the damage it did to the kids sent there.

[@Lynsey17]

@@loralieisa I know that one of the things these programs do is HEAVILY pressure the parents to take everything their kids say as lies - and complaints about their treatment are recast as proof the kid hasn't learned and still "needs" the program. It might seem insane, but there's already a lack of trust if the parents are considering these programs to begin with. They also target people like the Frankes who have very skewed ideas of what "appropriate" behavior is to begin with. There are so many stories of kids coming from extreme religious backgrounds who are sent to these camps for very minor indiscretions - or even completely normal & mild teenage sexual growth. I do sympathize with parents who feel they need to do something drastic to "save" their kids & these programs have gotten a lot of mainstream support (like Dr. Phil sending every "troubled" teen to appear on his show to one even though his team never bothered to vet any of the programs & it was more of a sponsorship deal than anything). But I can't imagine the damage it does to a kid to be sent away (and in some cases legally kidnapped from their beds in the middle of the night), & put in a dangerous and abusive setting, and not have your parents believe you when you beg for help. I haven't watched it, but I know Paris Hilton's latest show does touch on the topic of how being sent to one of these programs has affected her relationship with her mother. If you want a deep dive into it I highly suggest Last Podcast on the Left's episodes about it, though they are a very tough listen.

[@nobody8328]

Jordan, of Jordan and McKay (edit- licensed in utah) said the utah board ethic standard is basically just "dont sleep with your clients"

[@katyj6058]

A good standard to have, but it can’t be the only standard.

[@rachelcarolyn]

I'm a licensed mental health clinician in Virginia, so I can't speak to Utah, but as someone in the field, Jordan may have been joking a bit (and that was how I took it when she said that, although I could be wrong). I remember the ethics professor in my masters program saying "if you take only two things away from this class, it's: don't commit insurance fraud and don't sleep with your clients," and that seems to be what most other therapists I have encountered remember from their ethics classes. In addition to legal standards, set by the state, we are also held to the ethics codes of our profession's governing bodies. As a mental health counselor, mine is the American Counseling Association's Code of Ethics; licensed social workers, LMFTs, etc, have their own.

[@fvances]

It’s scary that the only reason the kids are free is bc one of them had to literally save themself. I feel like the kids were failed by many. Growing up my parent physically abused me. This was a regular occurrence that lasted for years. No one helped me. My other parent wasn’t able to get custody, the police didn’t help, and the multiple cps agents I talked to also did nothing. The only reason it stopped was bc I left home. I was homeless for a bit while in high school but rather that than live at home where the physical abuse also became mental abuse. I had to save myself!! I hear so many stories of kids in the same situation. And where I can see the reasoning of cps rules set in place to protect families-theres got to be a better way. What’s set up isn’t working well. (Edit: took a little out in case my past was triggering)

[@Trlababalane]

I'mliterally recovering from a major PTSD episode that was caused by a situation that has not previously triggered me , so hearing her say that BS grinds my gears. You think I want to have debilitating panic attacks? Nightmares? Having to leave theather during a play, smoedy even, I payed to watch due to a seemingly innocent joke? Or having to ruing outing with friends because an errant comment someone makes? Yea. I'm just lying to myself. doing it alll for attention....

[@michellem23]

Many of the patients I work With have PTSD. Shame on her for minimizing their trauma.

[@samanthadipasquale5196]

I'd love to hear Ruby's hot take on NATURAL CONSEQUENCES now.

[@kannakanina6552]

52:26 Thank you for recognizing how hard some people have to work to deconstruct and heal from such things. It’s incredibly validating.

[@bottomofastairwell]

Holy crap, its so hard. Coz God kind of abuse is so insidious. It gets in every corner of your brain and leaves you feeling like you don't even know what's real or what to believe anymore. Like everything you thought you knew was wrong, and now where do you go. Who even are you? It's truly wild how abuse like this can mess with you on every single level there is. And it takes SO DAMN LONG to undo all that damage and basically rewire your whole brain, your every idea about the world, relearn everything, and then FINALLY when you've created a solid foundation for yourself, begin building yourself back up again from nothing. Like holy crap is that hard.

[@kannakanina6552]

@@bottomofastairwell Everything you said… it hits so hard. But people are trying to make this otherwise invisible hell of a battle something society is better equipped to discuss. Even only 20 years ago, it was unheard of to discuss trauma on public forums so openly. Awareness is part of helping people get help.. As difficult as it can be to build an identity and autonomy after abuse, building a narrative identity is powerful. So is hearing, sharing, and allowing the narratives that move each person forward the space to exist in public discourse.

[@bottomofastairwell]

@@kannakanina6552 definitely agree. it's so amazing to be ablet o come to spaces like this and not only find validation, but also to see people sharing their experiences so openly. i know i definitely wouldn't have struggled nearly as much in my teenage years if people had spoken about trauma as openly as they do now. and for everyone else's sake, i'm so glad that public attitudes are shifting, and it's becoming normalized to talk about mental health

[@ExtraordinaryMachine333]

Ruby went to the Robyn Brown school of crying without tears. I hadn't heard Kevin Franke's statement and I was hoping he was just neglectful, but it sounds like he's culpable in a lot of what Ruby did to those kids. Ugh. I hope he faces consequences, too.

[@AllyssaButhmann]

21:00 I wish more people knew this! When I was almost 16, I started therapy, for the first time. I was in a dark place, and I had an awful ED. The therapist, that was chosen by my parents, was the mother my brother’s good friend and the co-scout leader of my Boy Scout troop. My family & my therapist’s family spent a lot of time together outside of my therapy sessions. Instead of seeing our family’s relationships as a conflict of interest, I often felt trapped or judged. My therapist could watch my ED treatment progression, because I was usually close by. She would often mention how “proud” she was, when I would eat in public, by approaching me and whispering things in my ear. Being new to therapy & not knowing professional conduct, I didn’t know that this was way beyond her professional practice bounds. As I have gotten older, and spent the better part of the last 20 years in therapy, I know and set firmer boundaries, especially in therapy. I have terminated professional therapy relationships, because they were too close to people we both personally knew, and spent time with. Seeing my therapist once in awhile, like at a concert or the grocery store, as a one time thing, compared to being at almost every event together. If you, or someone you know, is in a similar situation, please consider changing therapists or getting a referral to someone similar. I wasn’t allowed to escape from my situation, because my parents thought that having a family friend would be better. I can tell you, it isn’t. I was fearful that my demons and closeted skeletons would be unearthed, and I didn’t have people I knew I could trust. Did I get into recovery, yes. Did I learn good coping techniques I still use, today, yes. However, it wasn’t worth the insecurities and fear that my entire history could have been splayed out for those all around me.

[@karmica7591]

I didn’t want to deep dive into this story till now, and I looked up for your video to be uploaded cause I know you always take these subjects in an incredibly serious manner, alongside your professional take. I know how much possibly triggering this could be, but I know this is a safe space to know what’s happening in the best way possible out there. So THANK YOU, I really appreciate your work so much.

[@softwaifu]

I'm really glad to see people talking about this. I'm 28 and my mom parented me exactly like this, to a T. There's no way to accurately put into words how much this style of "parenting" negatively affects me to this day. I've been able to come really far through a lot of hard work but I still catch myself occasionally defaulting to the fear that everyone around me is just waiting for me to make some minor mistake, that I have to be completely perfect and even if I am perfect, I'm still disposable. Thanks to this parenting, those are the thoughts I have to re-parent myself out of on a regular basis.

[@ArtistCreek]

I stumbled on your channel and LOVE IT. I like that you don't look,sound or behave like every other therapist online. It's refreshing. I wish more therapists were like you because they don't realize there are unseen barriers to treatment and being afraid of being judged is a huge one. Please keep it up.

[@beyondallmeasure]

When I was in fundamentalism harsh "tough love" style parenting was so common that I'm not even shocked by these stories anymore. I'm more shocked that we don't hear more of them. So glad I am out of the cult.

[@delagonz4295]

Me 2 ❤

[@nerdoftheatre]

My bachelor's degree is in English. Jodi's degree is in English as well???? REALLY? I saw Rachel Oates cover this situation and Rachel had an entire section about Ruby and Jodi and how they got baffled by words. (Meanings changing over time, "making up words," etc.) I didn't realize she had a bachelor's in English..... I'm just... baffled by that.

[@eldrichnemo9312]

I too have a BA in English and wonder if Jodi knew exactly how to use word choice and placement to her advantage, or believed she was so well-educated and brilliant she could play with and make up whatever she wanted.

[@bootedbuilds]

Good point.

[@HalfLight333]

The story about a kid on fire saying “you’re hurting me you’re hurting me!” is…so wild. Ma’am if I were on fire my issue would not be you hitting me, it would be “OH GOD OH F*** I’M ON FIRE IM ON FIRE AAAAAAAAAA”

[@maxfreer6455]

As someone with ptsd and disabilities, that lady made me flip

[@shellymcmanus675]

What's more concerning is the fact that sooo many kids don't have the spotlight on their parents who are doing the same things. Who speaks up for those kids? Who will get them help? so sad

[@sg-cg6lr]

Your comment is so validating. Thank you

[@ciomaria6137]

It took me a few days to get through the whole video. It’s…a lot. The whole situation is so sad and my heart goes out to those poor children. Your commentary is very insightful and educational. I hope for the best for all of the children including the now young-adult children. I am a little on the fence about the father, as it is hard to believe that he was completely in the dark about all this if his college-age daughter was aware enough to call for wellness checks. I cannot imagine any father willingly separating himself from his minor children for over a year, to the point of no contact and being completely oblivious as to their health/milestones/etc, just because of the advise of a therapist.

[@feralhomunculus]

It broke my heart when I heard the boy say that what happened to him was *his fault* on the 911 call. I get choked up just thinking about that. Everything that was done to him and on top of it, he was made to think it was his fault. Like anything like that could ever be. I just hope they get the love, stability, and help they need now. They've never known the unconditional love that all children deserve. I hope they get that in abundance from not on.

[@autumnmoonfire3944]

James from Fundie Fridays made a very good point when they were talking about this situation with Jordan and McKay, If you call CPS from afar you might be doing harm because you provide the abusers with a dry run. A chance to practice their BS and get out of the crisis. I’ve seen disastrous things go down with my own eyes, and I know how limited interventions can be.

[@coldwar45]

You also make it more likely that CPS won’t take the claim seriously

[@pixiehellpup1579]

my mother was exactly like this, its hard trying to explain it to professionals sometimes because you accidentally make them cry. I finally found a therapist that doesn't break down into tears in the middle of sessions and am finally out of that house. its taken me years to get over the anorexia my mother gave me after her whole "you eat if you work" bullshit.

[@loralieisa]

OMG-I am so glad you found a therapist that didn't cry in the middle of your sessions and was able to help you. I have a feeling the stories the Franke children have will cause many therapists to break down as well. I am so sorry you had such an abusive mother, but you made it out of that house.

[@StonedHunter]

The fact that Ruby's first instinct to the hypothetical of her child being on fire is to BEAT them instead of of oh I dunno POURING WATER ON THEM YOU KNOW THE METHOD THAT DOESN'T INVOLVE HURTING THEM FOR NO REASON just really REALLY says a lot about how she actually feels about being a mother...some people should not be allowed to have children...

[@sarahm1447]

I'm only four minutes in but hearing about that six year old not having her lunch makes me so sad. There were times when I forgot my lunch when I was a kid, and sometimes even before I realized I didn't have it, my mom dropped it off for me at school and it made me feel so loved :( I hope that these kids will have a home where they recieve the unconditional love and care that they deserve

[@Grobohalic]

I have a BA in English. It has opened a lot of career paths to me. Therapist isn’t one of them, my God. Other than discussing Freud when reading Oedipus Rex, they don’t overlap

[@abigailsmith2087]

The way they speak to people who write in for help is wrapped in such weaponized shame. I can’t imagine listening to that as a parent that is seeking advice. There is almost no advice in their response.

[@ricecake3215]

I have not heard them be kind to a single question that was asked. They’re so up on their high horses, it’s like they were appalled anyone was asking anything.

[@TziporaRaphaella]

OMG Mickey, I don’t know if you’ll see this and I don’t know if I could shoot you a message privately. But I just want to thank you so much. What you say in around the middle of the video about the power imbalance but also the disclosure imbalance of one person sharing all their deepest stuff while the other doesn’t. That. I was harmed pretty dang BAD by a therapist with screwy boundaries (it’ll really piss you off when I tell you she was a health psychologist so she was targeting people with chronic and terminal illnesses. Folks even more vulnerable than typical therapy clients. And I was so isolated and alone and she knew I was her most vulnerable client of all) and it’s dang near killed me. I’ve been in plenty of therapy since. I reached out to the original therapist too soon hoping she would help me get my life back and she totally gaslit me and owned nothing at all. And I’m over here still a year and a half later my whole world destroyed like “I loved you. You were all I had. You promised to be there for me and be my person. You promised you weren’t going anywhere. We planned my death together! You said I wouldn’t die traumatized alone in a hospital unable to speak up and explain that I was being traumatized and literally that almost happened only I’m living with that trauma and your betrayal and it’s gutted me and no one gets it and you’re not getting it either!” You nailed it. You absolutely nailed what was at the core of it. And she doesn’t get what she did at all. Or how this was basically what caused the issues she had with me. She never thought I cared for her enough or respected or listened to or was grateful enough. It’s hard when I’m spilling my soul and you give me nothing back but are all up in my life doing all this extra stuff for me. Anyway sorry. It’s still very raw. But thank you.

[@Boss_Lady.325]

JUST found you! I've been following this case since the arrest and the back story is now coming out. SO FVCKING TRAGIC!! Your channel popped up in my YT feed because of my following this case and *WHAM!* I liked, subbed and joined your membership with 15 minutes!! Your candor and bluntness is extremely refreshing!!

[@JunAlex86]

I'm hoping that this incident can lead to the bolstering of more laws regarding children and social media monetization. While the footage of the borderline abusive tactics have been archived, it leaves the door open for any aspiring or active family vlogger to be more discreet. And I definitely suspect that was Ruby's intention with the deletion of her vlog channel prior to her "parental advice" platform.

[@felinehermetica]

21:08 I remember when I was a kid my best friends mother was some type of therapist/psychiatrist. We were in blockbuster (should give you a clue as to how old I am) and she abruptly turns to her daughter, hands her the cash and says, I’ll be in the car, come out when you’re done.” Turns out there was a client of hers in the store and just that small possibility of interaction outside of the office was inappropriate to her.

[@ExtraordinaryMachine333]

This was exactly what I needed to see, breaking down the fundie/actual distortion of psychological concepts, Jodi's "credentials", everything. What a thoughtful, informative video! Thanks

[@mandi4794]

okay i'm glad you brought up her degree! i have my masters in ed psych plus some extra clinical training i and spent so long googling how she got a psycho therapy certification with that. i've looked in the past to see if i could take some extra classes and cross train and i found no way to do that. i truly don't understand how she was certified!

[@ferencercseyravasz7301]

Thank you for being unapologetic about fundamentalists who beat their children. Whenever I talk about this online, the usual answer is silence and I always think that it is so because way too many people are all for hitting children, but they won't admit it publicly. So they prefer to think of it as a "controversial" topic. In my mind - and I've seen some really horrific abuse while growing up - there's nothing controversial about it whatsoever. Heck, people even invented an euphemism for it: it's not hitting, it's "spanking". Does it ever occur to them that in most other languages (I know, I speak a few) there's no separate word? Because essentially it's the same thing!

[@abbywolf9701]

Yes!! A friend of mine couldn’t seem to get over the hump that hitting your kids is UNQUESTIONABLY WRONG and not just a parenting choice. It finally clicked for her when she mentioned she “popped her on the mouth” for talking back, and I said “say that sentence again, but replace ‘pop in the mouth’ with ‘slap in the face’ and see if it still sounds reasonable.” She never hit her daughter again after that. So glad she saw the light. It can be really hard to break out of that cycle when steeped in a town that wholeheartedly supports it

[@crystal95405]

As a person who is lds, this upsets me so much. Food should not be a privilege.

[@loralieisa]

Food is a basic requirement to be given to growing children. It's sick to say it is a privilege.

[@crystal95405]

@loralieisa I agree, food is a requirement for a growing body. She is delusional is she thinks a 5-year-old is responsible enough to pack their lunches. And also have the nerve to not bring her a lunch and hope that no one give her anything to eat. Honestly she deserves to be in jail.

[@phat-kid]

i just found your channel and you seem genuine. i just wanted to say thanks for that. my childhood almost mirrors what these kids went through. im 41 and ive been crying for 2 days about this to the point i lost my voice. i've been in and out of therapy since i was 8, but i think just now i'm finally at a point where talk therapy will help me. from the time i was 8-18 i went through what these kids went through. before that i was with my parents, with my dad beating the crap out of my mom every single day in front of me, then going to my grandparents, where apparently they abused me physically and s--ually. my dad killed my grandparents when i was 8. but the what i call "family cult" i was in from like 9-18 with my sadistic narcissist aunt was pretty much exactly like the ruby franke household, and that was worse than any of the stuff i went through before that. these kids are going to have lifelong issues because they never had a family. i know from experience. anyway, keep doing what you do.

[@mandi4794]

my heart is breaking for you. i hope you find some healing soon 🫶🏻

[@luv4tajhanb]

I grew up in the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion and the cult stuff is spot on. They are so invasive of members’ privacy, militantly divisive af with their “us vs them” doctrine, and judgmental teachings messed me up. I was too glad to gain their disapproval when I ran out of there and off to college out of state. My mom is still in it, but she doesn’t force their shit on me anymore after she and I talked about my personal feelings on them. I’m 30 now and 90% of the members still hate me for being “worldly” for leaving and going away to college 🤷🏿‍♀️

[@Rockin711]

I appreciate your take, especiallyas a therapist viewing the actions of another therapist.. I hope you took good care of yourself after filming and editing this. ❤

[@autumn3000]

My parents met at a ranch for troubled teens in the late 70s (no longer married). The generational trauma that stemmed from this is an aspect I've never heard discussed, but I think it's also important. My mom has never unpacked the trauma she endured from this experience and still holds the people who ran the ranch in high regard. My dad just doesn't talk about it at all. I remember in the early 2000s when shows about these ranches were popular, my mom was in total agreement with the harsh conditions they would make these kids live, and I remember even then thinking it was cruel (and this was the sanitized for tv version). Honestly, it just makes me really sad for her. She carried the lessons she learned there into her parenting, and I used to harbor a lot of resentment, but through therapy, I've come to realize she was a victim in all of it, too. Now I'm just focused on breaking the cycle with my own child.

[@Amethyst2173]

I had a terrible therapist in graduate school who pressured me to stay in a sexually abusive relationship with a man 200 years ago. I ended up being misdiagnosed as schizoaffective disorder and overmedicated. I dropped out of graduate school. I often find myself wondering what my life would be like if I didn’t have her as a therapist. I felt that she put me on a hard path in life.

[@cidevant002]

The clip of Ruby saying "I know that her teacher is uNkOrTaBlE" fills me with such a sudden rage every time I see it. Like no DUH, a person who choose to take care of children and their education is going to be concerned about any of those kids going hungry! Hungry kids do not learn anything, they are just hungry! The brain of kids literally stop developing if they don't receive enough food. So yeah, I would hope that she would be worried about that. I would hope that any decent human being is worried when a kid goes hungry!

[@user-mv5zt8qd9l]

Imagine being so delusional that you boast about a trained childcare specialist fearing for your children's wellbeing. I find it hard to justify the protective "allegedly" talk here - this woman harmed her kids and actively preaches child abuse.

[@JoST41]

I really respect you and your channel and subscribed almost immediately. First of all thank you for caring more about putting out factually accurate info and not just throwing out whatever true or rumor to be the first to post and get views like a lot of these channels. It seems like a lot of these channels, while it’s super important for the story to be told etc are also doing it to ride the coat tails of the media whirlwind and get something out of it themselves. Some of these stories are reporting so fast, some of what they’re reporting isn’t even true. Second, thank you for not further spreading the clips. They’re being shown over and over and over again it seems to help people somehow profit by growing their own channels and I’m with you that it in a way further victimizes the kids. No one wants their worst and most embarrassing moments on the internet, period let alone shared over and over and over again. Thank you for the tasteful way you covered this story and truly had the actual victims in mind while doing so. Law and crime is awful for reporting things that aren’t verified because they want to be the first to get their story out there. It’s awful. Thank you

[@ZAB_Nailz]

I just want to say thank you for leaving in the part where you reminded yourself that “you’re okay, you’re safe” when talking about something that seemed to be triggering for you. I think it’s important for people to see what it looks like to check in with oneself to ensure that they’re not causing harm to themselves in exposing themselves to things that could be triggering.

[@Ann_T_Social]

Mickey, your video on why you won't accept a sponsorship from Better Help came up in my feed recently and I'm really glad I chose to watch it. Actually, it lead me to a bit of a binge😉 I think you're exceptional ~ down to earth, frank, relatable, and knowledgeable. My daughter just completed her Masters in Clinical Psychology, with the goal of becoming a therapist. I'm going to suggest your channel to her ~ thanks for doing what you do. ❤🧡💛💚💙

[@zulemazahir666]

After I watched Jessi Hildebrandts 3 hour interview the other day, I had a lot of emotions etc to sift through. There are excellent Lds people, but unfortunately the shaming culture, power the church etc has here, how normalized heavy punishments are etc, far too many like me end up traumatized. I really hope someday it will get better in Utah and I almost feel lucky to have been in salt lake county where there's more diversity etc. Non member therapists are more common in recent years it seems, but I doubt it's plausible in most other cities. Anyway enough rambling, I'm so glad this is getting so much coverage. Kudos and much appreciation to you Mickey! These channels and voices, are so important and helpful to many. Myself included! Hope these two monsters rot in prison where they "allegedly" belong!!

[@trinathequeena]

As I’ve been viewing Jordan and McKay, The Mormon Stories Podcast, and Fundie Fridays over the last week, I have KNOWN that Mickey was gonna have some THOUGHTS. I was not disappointed, thank you so much for such valuable insight! ❤

[@DonnaLena1]

A therapist working with my daughter, years ago told me that abused children are not “pretty in their behavior”. Abused children do what they feel like they have to in order to survive. 😢

[@AZStamptramp]

Following the 8 Passengers case. Your content popped up. Thought you had some excellent insights. I lived in Ahwautukee, AZ for 30 years so was happy to find an AZ professional commenting. I’m fascinated by so many recent major news stories taking place in ID, AZ and UT! Perhaps there needs to be WARNINGS attached to their “WELCOME TO THE STATE OF ________ signs. (AZ, UT, ID) 😮

[@aimeepearl693]

Oh Mickey, I have recently come across your channel as a longtime fan of Fundie Fridays. I love your perspective and your commentary. You have a new local (I'm in Arizona too) fan! ❤

[@AMFibers]

Thank you for not including the 911 audio. I heard it during Natalie the Lawyer Chick's stream with Jordan and McKay and it is horrifying. That little boy said that he was the only one of his siblings who was abused like this because it was his fault. The psychological damage these children have suffered is extreme. Even after their physical wounds have healed, it will be a long time before they are psychologically healed, if ever.

[@kellibell1640]

As an exmormon, I totally agree with what you said about religious deconstruction. I just subscribed and really like how well you speak. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[@moniqueamponsah5229]

Thanks for the information on this case. In terms of qualifications, licensing, etc. I thought I had seen this case from every angle. This was the most eye-opening. Love your channel x

[@justinwatson1510]

Remember, everyone, when Republicans talk about protecting "parents' rights" from "state overreach," Ruby is who they are trying to protect from the consequences she is crurently facing. Assuming the abused child is queer, of course.

[@Magdalena287]

That is absolutely not true. I’m not a republican but that statement is bullshit. Do you have children? If you think government overstep should be allowed then maybe you should go ask all these Chinese mothers forced to kill their baby girls in the womb how they appreciated it. Also you have liberal parents taking their children younger than 10 years old and having their boys dance for grown men and having money thrown at them. Why aren’t those parents having cps called on them because last time I checked that sexual exploitation

[@robinehunter3648]

???? Wow!

[@wk8000]

Not true! Good try though!

[@user-mv5zt8qd9l]

​@@wk8000 It's exactly true. When people push for less government power, that includes the ability for agencies to intervene in child abuse cases. Mentalities of "parent first" and "freedom of parenting style" are what enable these abusers to hide behind their "beliefs" when it comes to the dangerous punishments they dole out to children.

[@jencendiary]

@@wk8000 So, all these homeschoolers with passels of undereducated children don't have any objection to regular testing and their kids seeing a mandated reporter like a social worker or a guidance counselor frequently?

[@sharonmaberry-bourke7013]

Thank You! you're the first one that I've seen not re-exploiting the filmed child abuse~ And for well thought out reasons. On one hand allegations should be corroborated / proven . BUT ! on the other hand MANY have ALSO re-victimized and are exploiting footage on their personal vlog channels ( for clicks /views and making money off the horrendous coattails ) by replaying these offenses over and over. Maybe those content borrowing exploiters can donate all or part of this tainted LUCRE to the children in question for their mental and medical needs in the future.

[@thesingerintheshower]

I really appreciate your take on this topic and this abuse situation. Thank you for sharing your professional take on everything and thank you for the emotional and psychological validation of survivors/ victims like myself.

[@dliap98]

"if you don't agree with me you're just lying to yourself :)" incredible take lol

[@angelairidescenceartglass6289]

Me thinking about the PTSD that a stint in lockup can give to the person who claims it doesn’t have lifelong implications is the definition of schadenfreude.

[@azlizzie]

She has had her license suspended before. This story is much much deeper. I want it to take time. If it goes too fast, she will escape again.

[@emdawkins86]

I had no idea about these folx, or this situation. Thanks for diving into this situation, and the takes you gave!

[@roccafille]

Wow those poor children. These allegations are horrific!! Really hope they can heal away from their terrible parents!! Much strenght to them 🧡

[@livingintheforest3963]

Thank you for covering this you speak, eloquently and intelligently. It’s nice to hear from you.

[@shannonz3018]

Thank you for the trigger warnings Mickey. I can usually stomach the terrible stuff (probably due to my iob as a nurse) but some of these topics I just can't mentally handle. Thanks so much for looking out for us. 💓

[@AstroMoonGoddess]

Gah, I am STOKED you’re talking about this. Also, I just noticed the Portlandia reference in your background and it made me so happy. 🐦

[@DontSmokeInBed]

Love you Mickey, thanks for another fab video

[@jtw-r]

Thank you for not showing the abuse clips. Almost no youtubers have used this much tact with this situation.

[@ChristineCavalier]

I have a Master degree from a major university in Educational Psychology. You are correct about the degree. It is not suited for any sort of therapy. It is an academic degree with no clinical practicum.

[@Mrs_Wyllie]

I know this is such a difficult topic to talk about. But you have done such a great job going over all the information that is available and giving us your insight. Thank you and we appreciate you!

[@robynhfearon2108]

Thank you! Your explanation of this horrible situation is the clearest and most compassionate to the children I’ve heard.

[@rae_gem]

Thank you for addressing the educational psychology aspect! I have an MA in counseling and I personally have not known anyone with an exclusively educational psychology background to be a great therapist for traditional therapy. Not saying it doesn’t happen, it’s just such a different focus.

[@lindsey32221]

I really appreciate the way you discuss topics like these.

[@sami5261]

So glad you decided not to put any video clips with the children in. That's an integrity move. I feel like the camera is an accomplice in the abuse.

[@chloskyskies4399]

3:35 I hate how she said that, like as if the teacher is only bringing it up bc it makes them uncomfortable, not that the issue is that her child is hungry

[@alicianor27]

This whole situation is just sick. As a LPCC in training I am furious with Jodi and the Utah board… My heart breaks for the clients she has hurt. When you shared the clip from her podcast where she shared her take on PTSD…. Was she ever taught about the brain and trauma??? My heart breaks for Ruby’s kids. Let justice be served.

[@coastalcrab3]

Parenting is the grey of life. The faster we all accept each child is an actual born individual we as parents get to guide to adulthood, the better we'll be as a community. *Coming from a parent that knows due to external forces our child will prob need therapy support in future just like their parents.

[@shellymcmanus675]

This is such a problem... Starving kids can't learn. Maslow's hierarchy of needs, people!! Shelter > Food > Belonging > Higher Self.

[@alwaysflushinpublic]

But how awesome it is the finally the FEDS have stepped in and said "re-evaluate every single therapy licenses from Utah". Next! the ability of my abusive parent to threaten R!#e my then lying therapist's 2 young daughters that he both demanded I visit the abusive parent to call him off, then he dumped me. NEXT I knew to interview the therapist first. Also, that horrific no degree unlicensed therapist told my partner that I had shared a relapse in a recovery mtg. I confronted him and he said "I put men there to inform me of what is said". F....ing A33hole.