Mid Lengths: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.

[@stuhalliburton]

That was one of the best explanations of board design I've ever watched. Please, please could you guys do a more in-depth video on different tail shapes, nose/tail rocker, bottom contours etc

[@ombesurf]

Hey Stuart, hop on the OMBE app and check the get the right board course (community.ombe.co/courses/6845332/content) There we cover every surfboard in detail.

[@Saltylenses]

agreed, same. Ombe / Clayton you rock bro, back in the 90s, hand me down toothpicks, we learned the hard way, your content has changed the surf industry for life, period. Thank you for your contributions and passion.

[@peterpage9017]

Raglan Surf report gonna have fun with this one.

[@JessforR]

I can confirm that my midl-length does well in waist to overhead surf.

[@ombesurf]

Great. Love my middie

[@markm5555]

I Love You guys…. I’m a surfboard hydrodynamics and shaping Nerd. I just love the subtleties and nuances of how much can be controlled by making such small adjustments in a surfboard. You guys put out videos that are soooo informative and explained so thoroughly and well. Thank you so much for your commitment to your websites and channels and to your patrons and passerby’s alike. Amazing stuff!!

[@DanNewcome]

You guys have the gift of teaching. It is more than your opinion there is fact behind it. Plus the subtle humor is great.

[@johnarmstrong4053]

The best explanation of shape dynamics I have heard in over 30 years. Thanks for the cool video. Dialogue style points too!

[@rankin143]

how the concept and theory was explained was very approachable. this is really good job

[@ombesurf]

Thanks

[@wadebowerman509]

As a life long committed surfer from a wave rich coastal town in the far south coast of NSW ,I really am surprised at the interesting and often enlightening morsels of info I glean from everyone of your shows ….I take great joy fwding your segments to several adul learner mates of mine… great work

[@kylewattssurfing3266]

If you haven't already can you guys talk about midlength sizes???? Thxxxxxxxx guys!!!!!!!! You guys are one of my top surfing channels!!!! I hope OMBE gets to 1M/1,000,000/one million subscribers because you guys are awesome and how and what you teach about surfing is awesome... You guys have great chemistry toooooooo!!!!!!!

[@adrianwright1702]

Very well explained. There are many variables in design that can achieve similar results. I find that most people asking about mid lengths are those coming down from a longer board or those moving up from a shorter board, therefore the feeling that they are moving from helps dictate the variables in their mid length needs.

[@ombesurf]

Thanks mate!

[@MattPretorius]

Loving the analogy and explanation. Interesting that a mid-length is compared to a gun, instead of a step-up. I would love to see a video on step-up, semi-gun and gun shape comparisons or how the hybrid snowboard shapes also help with the transition from mid-length to shortboards.

[@stevecloyes171]

You have me sold on a mid length. I'm 52 and trying to maintain on a 5'11". I have a trip to Costa Rica next month and I will be looking for mid lengths to use. Thanks.

[@urbanrunoff]

for costa rica i'd look into something like the lost crowd killer in terms of shape and rocker. i don't like the retro mid lengths when waves get a little more critical.

[@saltwaterheartstudio]

What an education, thank you. I rode a 7'2 board for years and it served we well until it died.😢 I've moved on to longboarding since I really need the extra time to stand up due to arthritis. I love my new board.❤

[@Viellgas89]

Very good explanation, now I'm very happy I just ordered a midlenght

[@keno1069]

Thanks for posting this. I learned a lot. Also, I am buying a bucket hat ASAP.

[@ablamill8357]

I love mid lengths!

[@louwburger4295]

I have a Rusty, big cat, mid length, 7,4ft and absolutely love it. 55 years old and 110kg

[@lexhall9245]

This is a great approach. The aviation analogy is very instructive. Thankyou 💫

[@Saltylenses]

the opening cut killed me hahaha, "all I wanna talk about is midlenghts, and he keeps going off on tangents" As far as comparrison performance boards vs middys, midlenghts are pontoon party boats that are powered by a 275 four stroke yamaha Add your fav playlist, beverages and the fun never ends lol All this talk of middys and I can't help but mention they used to be called funshapes. I owned a 7'6" Dick Brewer with FCS fins, I regret letting go for $200 bucks in 2010. It was a hall of famer thruster with a narrow squash but the concave was perfect, full nose, speedy rails. Thing was a dream, but wasn't getting used so I let it be free. 🕊 For comparrsion: I'm 5'7" 195lbs / 170cm 89kg Quiver: 5'10 dbl concave 28L CI Flyer - FCS G6s 5'9 Twinnie quad 34L - Futures 7'6" Gnaraloo Foamie thruster 75L FCS G6s

[@helvijs]

Should use mics for these kind of videos. Would help a lot.

[@stevenlees8504]

Just what I have been looking for.Thank you!

[@christianfluchtmann7793]

Thank you so much for your thoughts on board design!! This video gave me every information I needed to proceed shaping my second board by myself! I Thank you so much for the perfect questions and not letting some explanations go without understanding it :D A second explanation gives much more detail and understanding!

[@hennnnerz]

Around 17:18 you mention that if Ant is 6ft6 then a 6ft6 mid-length could be his shortboard, but if someone is 5ft6 then a 6ft6 could be their mid-length. So why/how would the shorter person's weight/feet/lean leverage turn the same board?

[@byronbass1370]

Wider tail. 6’6 your mid length would be about 7’4 7’6. Two completely different shapes from ones shortboard, to there mid length. Especially in the tail

[@ombesurf]

It should be custom made for their weight, hight etc.

[@hounddog7256]

Excellent video... nailed a couple of things that I had questions about, especially the single fin coming out of the face and the rear of the board let go when on rail (9.0 Mal)

[@Hodler82]

Best explanation I have heard…. Perfect 👍 ❤

[@ombesurf]

Wow, thank you!

[@photographerimages]

Very good interpretation. Also, what rigging and camera setup are you wearing at 2:38, do you have an improved camera and harness version now?

[@oneilljonathan1477]

I've watched all your vids and u alway do a very good job but this has to be the best u have put together thxs .

[@thedadyouneverhad2023]

Great content - as for the tail shape - a squash would give you a longer rail line in a shorter board as well as a better pivot point - not necessarily a bad thing

[@kylewattssurfing3266]

Fighter jet exxxxxaaaaammmmmmpppppleeee ammmazzzinnnggg!!!!! Greaaaaaaaaaaat surfboard education!!!!!!! Thxxxxx!!!!!! Happy surfing from Virginia Beach, VA!!!!!! One of the best reviews on your channel!!!! I have a mid length quiver which growing and agree infinite percent with you guys.... As Clay would say, "spot on", maaaates!!!!!!!

[@GabrielMartins-vf2xm]

I love my SS&B 7.0 (around 45 lt) as I was struggling a bit with the paddling in my shortboard (around 35 lt) as I'm getting older and having less time in the water (even after improving A LOT with the OMBE courses and the OREO technic). My question is: Does it makes sense to think that a better shortboard for me could be something around the same volume of my mid-lenght? Like a fish or something that allows for more volume in a shorter board? Great work btw with all the content!

[@Swingkid14]

With a midlenght I catch more waves, have more fun, surf longer and have way more days in the water compared to my shortboard days. Surfed over 20 years with shortboards.

[@ombesurf]

I hear you

[@easonw1463]

So much inspiration, thank you!

[@kevinjleighton]

What are your thoughts on length for your first mid? I have heard about 12" above head height.

[@burntsugar]

What a great video. Thanks guys!

[@SasoCasablanca63]

This is AN AMAZING explanation! Thank you so much.

[@ombesurf]

Glad it was helpful!

[@petep5003]

One thing ill say is that you call out the point nose / pointy tail of the gun as the reason its slow. In reality the reason they are slower than mid lengths is the rocker. They have more rocker which holds the water on plane and doesn't release it as easily. Think about a glider with a pintail and a pointy nose. Still very fast because they have no rocker.

[@safetybeachlife]

Just picked up a second hand Machado Ss&B 7’0, then injured my Achilles’ tendon, but coming good now. Absolutely frothing to try it out

[@ombesurf]

Rode one and loved it.

[@laugri]

Loved the middle part of the video!

[@ombesurf]

Glad you liked it!

[@chriscantor6329]

Sure, people are free to ride whatever they like, but IMO too many people as they age go straight from short boards to mals, when mid-lengths might be more fun for their middle years.

[@leonardoesquivel5331]

You guys always leave me wanting to be in the water right away

[@captainmeatball3953]

Last year I got my hands on a hardly surfed 2nd hand 6’8 x 20 1/4 x 2 3/4 Clayton Swivel,it says “test for CS” so I think it was a prototype when developing the swivel. Awesome board,that’s my mid length. 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

[@ombesurf]

Those where Clayton's first mid lengths over 10 years ago.

[@briantrend7401]

I usually go to board sales online like Ontario surf shop and check out their new boards and study mid length measurements / fish/ twin etc ...in relation to you. Write a whole list down in that type of board selection and you can choose your best board size from that and learn a lot

[@jksinorbit]

I think riding a middie should only be allowed for those who have spent years paying their dues... hit 50 and you earn your mid licence!

[@NoSecondSeason]

I can barely stand up and I'm gonna get one😂

[@reubenmcvey52]

@@NoSecondSeasonsame😂

[@Saltylenses]

haha valid, my back and knees are ready for the transition

[@RaelThomas]

You nailed it with "people riding mid lengths are having more fun". It is fun! It's also nicer to watch. Watching someone hop about and do slashes and cutbacks on a shorty really isn't very pleasing to the eye. It's unsubtle and repetitive. Would much rather watch Devon Howard or Torren Martyn coast about on a mid.

[@ombesurf]

Style for days

[@kevintyrer45]

That was rad. The amount of information was so helpful. I been shaping my own boards for almost 4yrs, & am loving the technical side of what makes a board work. I'm 57yrs old, 5.4ft, weigh 80kgs (old man's tummy) shoe size is 6. (South African dimension). Q1: What length & volume mid length would suit me? Q2: Would a mid length board work at jbay on a big day 5-6ft +?

[@caspercrause2583]

Best video yet.

[@tonesdef]

I only ride mid length now. 7'2-8'0. They all go like hell and are a blast. I have given up on shortboading. At 6'2 and 210lb (188cm 95kg) i am almost always the tallest heaviest guy in the water. Even sitting at the point on the 40 liter shortie I'm getting out paddled by local bruddha who's 5'2 and 140lbs. Being at the peak doesn't mean anything when everyone else at the peak is way lighter than you.

[@ombesurf]

Love my middie

[@kulfonbustardo1588]

Hahahhaa only a few minutes in makes me miss working at a surf shop 🤣

[@behrensbros11]

Hey guys it would be really interesting to hear Clayton’s thoughts about fin splay or toe. Like race cars positive and negative toe effect if the car is more or less sensitive to steering input with trade off being straight line speed. But that’s with all four wheels making contact or at least three. However if a surfboard is on rail and only the fins on the engaged rail side are in the water how does the flow of water dictate what the fins are doing? I’m also curious about how water moving past the fin on the Z axis, nose to tail, might differ from the effects of water traveling up the face.

[@nickd4427]

Interesting video! Clay's onto it! Though we all know the reason for the surge in popularity of mid-length/Egg shapes, its because it's a trend. Just like everything in surfing now, its fashion brah! Remember the "Hypto Krypto" fad? That was a thing, now it's not. Then twin fins happened. Now mid-lengths. These boards are wicked fun, but it is funny that people surfing eggs and mid-lengths 10 years ago were given a hard time. Now it's acceptable. Surfing is (it once wasn't) an interesting breeding ground for herd mentality.

[@wesleyturner1979]

I think with a slightly rounded pin tail you could expand the mid length range from waste high to well overhead. I’m not sure most guys want to be ripping tight cutbacks on their middies.

[@stephenkoawl3453]

I think we'd have gotten a more straightforward explanation if hat guy just talked to us / the camera instead of polo guy.

[@jannen.6571]

About what size (lenght and volume) would a midlenght be for me when I am 185cm, 90kg, foot US10, intermediate level. Fitness level and paddlestrenght is ok! Would be surfing it in 2-5ft waves when I travel to europe or indonesia or wherever. Thanks!

[@Hotwire_RCTrix]

Until around 2016 I had never heard of a mid length surfboard. Until 2000 I had never heard of a fun board. I tried to buy a soft board for my kids in 1991 and they didn't exist. How can there be definitions for these boards?

[@ombesurf]

Different countries have similar ideas with different names

[@reubenmcvey52]

I have a question, I’m pretty new to surfing, I recently bought a second Hand biard, it’s a 6’11 x 20 with a pointed nose and a fish tail, is this a midlength that will surf relatively well on smaller waves or is it more of a gun?

[@ombesurf]

How wide it the tail?

[@reubenmcvey52]

@@ombesurf it’s a pretty wide swallow tail, it was a custom made board but I’m just curious🙏

[@alanthomson5331]

I feel like the current trend to go mid length is a short boarders attempt to compete with the proliferation of long boarders etc and their greedy wave hog obsession. Any point surfing session just pisses me off to no end with every unbuttoned shirt wearing hipster, any 20kg girl surfing a no rocker long board, 15yo kids who should be on a short board, taking every _ucken wave then paddling back out past you again. Add to the mix SUP's, foils or any other surf craft. Never surfed Snapper so that's a different story. Having surfed now for nearly 50 years and still on shorties (5'10" up to 6'4") I swear I'll never surf a point again when I get out there. Living on the Sunny Coast it's Noosa, Alex, Carties or Moffat. All prime examples of places I won't go to when points are the only alternative to blown out open beaches. Maybe I'm living too much in the past, and need a 'State of Mind' adjustment. Having said all that, I now in the mix of ordering a mid length from a local shaper. 🤨Having come from short boards, I felt a mid length for me was around 6'4" but now I think I have to go at least 6'8"after watching this great talkfest . Great content as always from you guys Clay and Ant and the OMBE crew.

[@ombesurf]

Im sure a mid length will put a smile on your face. Ps: I stay away from the points.

[@antheadare9285]

so informative!

[@pierswoo76]

I think a mid length is a great addition to a quiver once you've learned how to surf well (see so many people surfing them badly out running the wave turning flat), I think that going from foamie to mini mal to funboard (easy shorterboard) then to a proper shortboard is a great progressive way to understand the nuances of surfing then experimenting with mid lengths twinnies logs etc with the correct technique is a thing of beauty, having said that if your a weekend only/holiday surfer maybe a mid length makes sense?

[@waxcomb]

When i get old i might try a midlength

[@bmartinot]

Here on the uk southcoast a shortboard isnt really qn option unless your 18 and 50kg

[@ombesurf]

True cold water and smaller waves lend to bigger boards

[@rctrix9063]

At speed it's more difficult to put a board on rail, unless you reduce the width and increase the rocker. Width is good for slow moving waves, ie lower wing loading. Note: concave = anhedral (less stable) V-bottom = dihedral (more stable) This is why the foils on foilboards are anhedral. Yes I'm a pain, but qualified. 😉

[@mygchurch7220]

Mid length surf etiquette is interesting. Everyone hates you but tell me how if everyone else sucks at position even on a short or mid length it isn’t ok to be hated for catching it all.

[@gavriloking5637]

The idea that everyone hates you is incorrect but if that happens to be true where you surf then switch beaches brah

[@ricardolaranjeira4648]

justo one appointment, when you are riding small waves you need a small board that can fit in the wave, a mid lenght is a board for fat waves with a good face ideally!

[@cristinakineke1298]

It depends on the shape & speed of the wavw

[@jonnyzuma6884]

If your logic was correct, how can you surf a 9 foot board in a 1 foot wave?

[@ricardolaranjeira4648]

@@jonnyzuma6884 try to do a roundhouse cutback and hit the lip on a longboad in one foot wave. Of course a longboard is ideal to surf weakerr waves ( more volume) but not to perform if you know waht i mean.

[@dominicadalton6585]

I look forward to everyone hating me at my local beach when I get my mid length. 😂

[@ombesurf]

lol

[@wcc1212]

When you are looking at mid lengths, are you looking at length, or a combination of length and total liters? What is your typical mid length --6'4" -6'8", 36-40L range?

[@ed1pk]

Depends on your height and weight. Add 6-12 inches to your height. The heavier you are, the more length and volume you need. I use a 6’8 51L Hypto Krypto for my mid length when waves are small and weak. I’m 5’10 and 140lbs. But I’ll also use the same board when it gets double overhead.

[@wcc1212]

@@ed1pk --thanks for the feedback. I am 5'10", 170lbs. I tend to over buy surfboards. lol...

[@ed1pk]

@@wcc1212 Me too. Haha. Also, take out the center fin and ride it as a twin to loosen it up and make it more fast/fun when waves are small. Also go up in size/volume when conditions are crowded and your paddle conditioning is not so great. If you're not catching more than half the waves you paddle for, you need a bigger board. 🤙🏄‍♂

[@wcc1212]

@@ed1pk --yea, that is a great suggestion about removing the center fin. One builder takes his 7ft and makes it a twin fin in 4-6ft conditions, and he says it is a lot of fun. In FL it can be 1-2ft or 3-5ft and glassy, or 4-6ft and heavy soup! It is really a wide range of conditions. So, yea, I buy more boards than I need---but heck, i may take 3 with me, and ride all 3. lol....

[@ed1pk]

@@wcc1212 Yeah, taking the center fin out allows you to turn the board without having to get your back foot on the tail. It's like riding a completely different board, so you may not need to buy any more :) I can turn while still standing in the middle allowing me to shift my weight to drop into the wave or fly down the line. Like a skateboard with super loose trucks. So much faster and fun in waves 1-3ft. Can get tricky to control in bigger waves 3-6, especially going backside. Very squirrely at first and takes getting used to. And really need to take care in sweeping turns/cutbacks. can't as easily just power through. When it's overhead, I put the center fin back in if I'm too tired for a shortboard. Prefer the extra stability of center fin.

[@crashmyzebra]

19:00 - I'm dying

[@crashmyzebra]

I always thought a thumb tail was meant to give more control than a squash tail :/

[@sachapetrolo5335]

Nice content,... but audio quality is not really good. 🤙🏽😎

[@joeroberts4408]

Board length is directly proportional to the width of ones smile.

[@ombesurf]

True story

[@franpinyol8500]

Guns are not slow (in average waves) because the nose and tail are narrow (in fact, it's the oposite). Guns are slow because of the huge rocker, so they need hollow and fast waves.

[@ombesurf]

Yep so many variables just trying to keep it simple

[@bunsolo]

mildly offensive mockery of 12 step meetings around 22:40… 🤣

[@EMan-cu5zo]

Surfboards cost a fortune nowadays. I started surfing in the early 90s and the board was like 300$. Now they cost around 1,000$. I don’t know how people who surf good waves can afford it. Surfboards aren’t exactly the strongest thing they break easier than most would expect. I have broken quite a few in my day and it would drive me nuts.

[@Hotwire_RCTrix]

Mini mal with a point isn't a mid length. What he's making is a pointy mini mal. Same with CI and a few others.

[@jeffn1384]

Not sure your comments about a single fin setup are very accurate. You can turn beyond 45 degrees. You can turn on rail.

[@bethanymitchell8504]

Mid lengths shapes like performance sup

[@darren_ross]

They hate at first, they'll get used to it.. 🤙🤙😜

[@ombesurf]

lol

[@briantrend7401]

I'm 72 started riding 1964 on Malibu's the got into midget farrely pintail single fins in the 70s . Then got into twins when mark Richard s was tops in 78. And I stuck with them until the Simon Anderson thrusters took over. Stayed with thrusters ever since started shaping and have been stoked onmarton potters saint twin and MR twin as well.. hafter 45 years of surfing full time had a heart attack and coma. Combined with Nearly 20 years without surfing working inland I lost how to surf??? Practice like a child again doing a dozen pop ups per day on the floor. It's a mind game. Don't have a coma you will struggle to surf again . Switch off do pop ups and never give up . Don't stay away from riding more than 5 years it's dodgy u could lose it. Pensioner

[@kdenbeaches808]

At the end of the day, it's all about having fun and catching waves.. who cares about getting lazy.

[@ombesurf]

Yep

[@bobby9476]

Froth Lord!!!!!

[@ombesurf]

Guilty.

[@rapraprapi]

🤙

[@samspahr63]

short board = wide point in the rear, mid length = wide point forward

[@stephenkoawl3453]

I would be so frustrated if I was hat guy

[@beauhayes7679]

This one goes to 11.

[@saullandiof5768]

why so much aggro energy between these two lol

[@ombesurf]

Lol Ant doesn't listen.