Miller court hearing for Oxford high school shooter (Part 12)

The second part of the Oxford High School shooter's three-day hearing after resuming from a break on Aug. 1, 2023.

[@mylesastinnette6208]

So many mass shooters behave the way Ethan did. He showed for years that he planned to kill. He wants to be well known. He and his family should remain in jail.

[@CharlotteFerrariBreton]

OMG The Expert witness just admitted that he had to ¨find¨ as much mitigation evidence as possible,(doesn´t matter if its untrue) make a report and submit it to court. Wow just wow. This guy´s ¨expertise¨ just got tossed.

[@user-in8tp2qg7k]

It is very frustrating watching this witness doctor , like he doesn't understand anything, so why waste time???

[@janetcardenas5006]

It seems as the doctor edited his reports to fit the defense’s narrative. And kept answering the prosecuter’s questions very vaguely. It seemed as he was acting dumb and got ammesia all of a sudden.

[@spirit13the1st6]

The DR.is not on trial.

[@dwh751]

Where have we heard this before?

[@melsafken764]

​@@spirit13the1st6 As an expert witness, he must be clear about dates & diagnosis.

[@incarau]

No he did a summary. Remember lately the PROSECUTORS are mostly corrupted they just want their money, so money driven.

[@jannea4318]

​@spirit13the1st6 The doctor himself may not be on trial, but his testimony certainly is. For that matter, so are his credentials and credibility. From where I sit, he gets a big fat "F".

[@lou4445c]

I don't understand. Why wouldn't he come prepared? What dr doesn't record dates of meetings with clients? He's having trouble understanding some of the questions. He doesn't seem very professional.

[@Onewayoflife75]

Totally agree! Also, what ‘running report’ would be backdated to June?? Surely the report had a second deadline day for discovery, and that is saved & sent. Further therapy or testing should be saved every single day it is added to!!!!

[@L-n-o-v-a]

He also said “Mental health is real”

[@syon600]

No, he just answers in a way that protects himself from saying incorrect things.

[@syon600]

​@@L-n-o-v-ahe means mental ill health. Because it's always mental ill health we all refer to when we talk about mental health. A misnomer?

[@L-n-o-v-a]

@@syon600 I know, I just meant that he is stating the obvious. We already know that mental health and mental illness is real

[@user-or6ep1cg5h]

This prosecution is A+ dang they tore that dr apart

[@karimahoney5708]

DEVASTATED!!! 😮

[@blg8505]

He's a BS artist. "I've held a brain in my hands." The other expert the defense brought made Dr King look like a joke. Why they had both when they should have just used the professor. Both the clinicians used by the defense were awful.

[@belleblaas3843]

@@TruthOnly24 I would have loved to see the 22 hours, the doctor spend together with Ethan on video. He was correct in part 11. And now a bit in trouble, because there are 2 copies. January and June. And even a third one. Prosecutor is succeeding in confusion. Potato potato.

[@jupo9928]

Oft. Psychologist didnt have correct citation & referencing, didnt have the subject complete a questionnaire because he thought he could answer it himself, and it just goes downhill from there. As a *minimum* he should have included this as its essential for academic research and evidence required for legal cases. He says hes new to the legal side of things and sounds like a lovely therapist but has a long way to go to become a legal or more experienced in the forensic field of psychology. If i wasn't well i would want him as my therapist, if i was on trial i wouldn't want him as my defender.

[@naomivantonder1161]

Totally disorganized

[@dknapp100]

a conveniently sloppy doctor being inconvenienced by a tidy prosecutor. Awfully confident to awfully clueless in a matter of minutes. Odd.

[@rosearellanes5648]

I love this proecutor, she is not willing to let this teen hide behind mental illness, as a way of midigating what he has done. This teen was old enough to tell his high school counsellor or a teacher what was going on. She is going to hold him accountable for the lives he has permanently altered

[@user-cy4vw1qj9m]

He has mental illness and if he was treated sooner this wouldn't have happened. With counselling he would realise he wasn't unlovable the fault lay with his parents also he would spend time in a hospital and none of this terrible would have happened.

[@rosearellanes5648]

@@user-cy4vw1qj9m I sure am glad u weren't on this jury because u may have let him walk, regardless of the lives he altered

[@user-cy4vw1qj9m]

@@rosearellanes5648 No I would not have let him walk.

[@rosearellanes5648]

@@user-cy4vw1qj9m Sounds to me like u would since u want to blame his actions on mental illness

[@kathyk-h-w1874]

I see that --yet they are prosecuting the parents largely on their failure to get immediate help for a mental health issue that their own PsyD said doesn't exist?

[@DCmama72]

OMGosh Doctor. I was for the Dr. until the state started questioning him…. Eye rolling.

[@janedixon8491]

My big concern is if he is let out of prison eventually and quits taking meds will he kill again?

[@RoseforTrump]

I dont believe ethan will get parole. He shouldn't

[@christinawadsworth501]

Yes

[@caterinawilliams998]

Could they just give him life for now and then if after years on therapy and various rehabilitation programs this can be reviewed and an appeal for parole can be lodged and his case can be re discussed..

[@janedixon8491]

Like 30 years with the possibility of parole?

[@jessicafeatherston2172]

Plus, often, people MUST be violent to survive prison. He may not have the ability to shut that off with his mental illness... Especially if he's prone to violence during psychosis. I've never felt bad for a school shooter before but this kid has my heart, not sure I would feel the same way if my child was killed by him but his parents are pieces of sh!t!!!! He did not stand a chance in life! I hope his parents are going to spend the rest of their lives in jail for this! They didn't even care about helping to defend their son, according to the text message. His mom said basically that he was on his own and they needed to worry about defense attorneys for themselves... Why did they even have a child if they were just going to ignore him his entire life?? I'm disgusted by all of this!

[@monicaldr3711]

I'm glad I watched this cuz there was a lot I didn't know like how close he was to the victims when he shot them... I also didn't know about all the animal torture and fantasizing about hurting kids...after hearing that I don't think he should ever get parole and I think he's probably ok with that it seems like he wanted to go to prison anyways....and his parents definitely could have prevented this from happening...I was unsure about them charging the parents but the more I hear the more I'm thinking that's the right move.

[@christina5kids16grands]

This hearing definitely challenges my feelings about the parents being charged. I listened to every word of this miller hearing, as well as every second of all the hearings on this case, from every status check for Ethan along the way, the pretrial and preliminary hearings leading up to his sentencing, as well as every hearing in his mothers case. I struggle to not wish he'd just have offed himself instead of taking those poor innocent teens out. I still do not believe the parents cases are going to stick. Even with everything I've see and heard, I don't believe they could have seen this coming. Hindsight is always 20/20, and it's real easy for us to say they should have known. He purposefully kept the information that would have given them a clue at how deranged his mind had become. He was very calculated in his plan to hide pertinent information from them, and this is where we ended up. I also have a serious problem with the way the state handled this entire case from the very start. They lied saying the parents were fleeing. That was a blatant lie. They lied saying he GAVE him this gun when in fact it was bought as a family, kept in the parents room, and most of the time locked up. They showed consciousness of guilt when after hearing about the shooting, mom texted him "Ethan don't do it", and dad raced home to check on where the gun was. But overall, considering all the info that has surfaced and come out of mom's trial, for me, I don't see the culpability the state is laying at the parents feet. And IF the parents are as guilty as they say, then the SCHOOL carries the same weight. They had that backpack in theiir hands. The school counselor told the parents he should stay in class that day, and that they should get him counseling, which they planned to do. Again, not parents of the year. Not at all. But this is a really tough one.

[@CharlotteFerrariBreton]

@@christina5kids16grands He is too coward to off himself. Nikolas Cruz the Parkland shooter threw similar fits. This guy just picked it up from the standard playbook. These things are EASILY FAKED by the way. You need to take things with a ¨grain of salt¨ and be objective when it comes to cases like this. 10-15 years for the parents is insane and it actually would fall under a Human Rights violation in an international court.

[@NellaBLavish]

This doctor went from sounding real competent to reeeeal FAKE so fast!!!

[@gregoriousChowanoac]

What the goal of questioning the doctor this way

[@spirit13the1st6]

He's trying to make the DR.seem negligent. Therefore his testimony might be inadequate to the jury.

[@jenniferbylsma1416]

@@spirit13the1st6there's no jury. They have to convince the judge in this.

[@user-or6ep1cg5h]

The weight of this witness to the judge if he proves he didn't do a good job of diagnosis then he won't weigh much of his decision on this Dr's findings

[@melsafken764]

Maybe because they all have different documents. They aren't dated, they are incomplete with no references. Imo, his testimony should have been thrown out.

[@naomivantonder1161]

This lawyer is also getting agitated

[@dwh751]

That's because this "professional" sucks

[@maryerichardson8302]

Why is this prosecutor so determined to deny Ethan Cumbley’s mental illness? No one is denying his criminal responsibility. Listening to all the testimonies, it seems clear that something’s not right with Ethan. Also, this hearing makes his parents’ culpability very clear.

[@cady__]

Their role in this hearing is to determine whether or not they can bring forth a possibility of a life without parole sentence since Ethan Crumbley was 15 when this happened. Based on the law they want on their side, they’re trying to argue that it was less due to mental illness where say he had a psychotic break and was out of his own mind, and more to the fact that he premeditated the act and was ‘clear’ when he carried it out, proving that he is not capable of living in society again and should not have the option of parole. I don’t think based on what they did when talking to this witness that they did a good job - it seems as if they’re worried the law isn’t on their side with the evidence they have - and the fact they’ve already argued the parents should be tried for failing to help their clearly mentally unwell son. It comes across as A sort of contradiction of arguments as far as the laws are concerned. The prosecution didn’t do a good job today. The spent way too long trying to discredit and impeach a witness that is not impeachable and stood their ground on the facts and evidence. The judge did a really good job though imo and I trust he will make the right decision at the end of the hearing.

[@maryerichardson8302]

@@cady__ his premeditation is connected to mental illness. It’s not like he was doing it for extortion or revenge or some other reason. He is dealing with a deranged mind. I’m not even saying that he should get the opportunity for parole; just believe he needs help even if he gets life without parole. He was 15 at the time and his parents are the most useless parents.

[@cady__]

@@maryerichardson8302 agree 100%. they’re (the parents) are incredibly useless. From the evidence so far they had multiple opportunities to step in and didn’t. They’re just awful. It seems like the Prosecution thinks he has, or will argue something like anti-social personality disorder. It’s not a diagnosis that would be allowed into Mental Health court, because there’s no say - break from reality like with serious mental illness, it’s how someone is. There’s a difference between someone having a serious mental illness like schizophrenia, schizzoaffective, bipolar disorder- and what Ethan had going on. He was calm, calculated and cold. His writings and things he said about killing others were sadistic and he didn’t note any empathy or remorse for anyone involved ever. People with those types of mental headspace are not and should not be lumped in with people who have serious mental illness ever. They’re separated in court for a reason. I just don’t think the prosecution did a great job because overall it could contradict the case with the parents. Then again, maybe not. There will be more hearings, and more evidence to see and hear about so I’ll be interested to see what further unravels. It’s such a horrendous case because his parents saw what was going on and could have intervened and gotten him help as was recommended. Lives could have been saved 😔 it’s all very sad.

[@fernandaolivares7926]

I agree! He is trying to take psychosis out of the table when this doctor actually perfomed the required tests to diagnose it. No one is saying he is crimanally insane here, so all this trying to confuse the doctor with questions that have no relevance at all when his own expert diagnosed the kid without perfoming ANY tests was a bad choice. Psychosis was actually their best chance at saying he cannot be rehabilitated. They shot themselves in the foot. This doctor held his own though. The prosecutions expert has 1k patients, sees the kid 15 minutes a week and gives him anti psychotics even though in her diagnosis she says he is not physcotic, they also deny he suffers from brain injury but never performed a scan (neither side did) so why are they even mentioning a brain injury AT ALL when it cuts both ways. It's more than evident this kid suffers from mental illness, so this whole grilling of the doctor was a total mute point and more of a shot in their own foot imo.

[@fernandaolivares7926]

​@@cady__Totally agree, the doctor held his own and it was simple why, he actually performed required tests to diagnose him which their expert didn't. He just tried to confuse him with irrelevant details that made it more evident this one is the one expert who actually did his job. They shot themselves in the foot wirh this one.

[@thestoryunfoldsofficial]

NOW THAT'S HOW YOU DO A CROSS EXAMINATION! Great job prosecutors! ♥️

[@timothyfreeseha4056]

I agree. Doing their job for the people.

[@Sunflower-lu3sm]

The doctor isn’t the defender. He should be treated with respect.

[@EBGONEGLOBAL]

​@@Sunflower-lu3smI kinda feel bad for the doctor, he's getting the bidness! I think he's brilliant but the prosecution is on their job indeed.

[@Bev26]

what Dr doesn't have his phone BS, can see hes getting flustered on cross

[@endavi1214]

It is always the the unspoken kids that end up doing this kind harm . No one sees or hears them.

[@hansmir5443]

Yes but the high schools in the US is the breathing grounds of the first criminal acts of teenagers. It’s very hard to be a teenager. Parents are responsible.

[@janesmy6267]

Why don't parents raise their kids properly and less entitled so they don't bully in the first place? Less school shootings would happen if parents knew how to raise their kids properly. Parenting classes should be compulsory for all parents prior to the birth. There'd probably be less serial killers and mass shooters that way. US is a mess. The only country in the world were mass school shootings are a monthly reoccuring event.

[@spirit13the1st6]

Its so much more complicated than what you state. Divorce rate grows every year. Most of these school kids have problems in the home. Seems that no school wants to adress bullying. As of this commentary 1/27/24 27 people murdered across the country( that day)including a 4 two sixes and an 8 ( murders) Or politicians in their sheltered life are not taking us seriously, so we must save our country and #VOTE THEM OUT. Soon America wilk become a murderous wasteland and you ladies having a huge voting block and being most at risk you would think to take this more serious. Get serious ladies.

[@user-in8tp2qg7k]

This doctor doesn't seem to be a very good witness... HE SEEMS CONFUSED!!

[@timothyfreeseha4056]

The absence of testing vs wrong testing= Ethan is not served in this Miller hearing.

[@endavi1214]

This is a joke no judge should let him do this in his court.

[@W_74_16]

Feels like the lawyer & the good doctor do not particularly get along with each other.

[@dawngasque5272]

Is he heavily medicated right now because I'm a counselor and he looks very sedated

[@amybattiste5077]

I didn't think they were allowed to be medicated while on trial. Either way, he KNEW what he was doing. It's a manipulation tactic, IMHO.

[@user-cy4vw1qj9m]

He looked like someone with autism to me or some other disability.

[@meganbaldwin1699]

Did you guys watch the 6th or 7th day of this hearing? They played a video that EC made. He is actually extremely intelligent and I thought to myself he could very well be on the spectrum. He knew exactly what he was doing. He carried out his plan and he’s a monster. His parents are guilty as sin and there should be a child abuse charge added as well!

[@Shooshie130]

Wow….this guy is a TERRIBLE witness. Letting the prosecutor bate him in to making assertions that are just embarrassing (e.g., suicidal ideation = psychosis)

[@2and26]

@meganbaldwin1699 Exactly! Listening to that manifesto he made the night b4 his rampage sounds like the mind of a master manipulator. Maybe he is doubly gifted (genius + on the spectrum), but he appears to be evil and he has hoodwinked everyone with believing he had a psychotic break. He designed and carried through with his intentions of harming (killing birds, schoolmates).

[@OliveD-Martini]

I think the doc is competent his questions are not clear I believe the prosecutor is trying to discredit the doc

[@cady__]

The doctor is competent. The prosecution is trying to impeach him but they didn’t do a good job. The judge is great though and he understood what was going on. I trust in the end the judge will make the right decision. Prosecution is concerned the law isn’t on their side and tried to put on theatrics to discredit witness. Bad attempt

[@fernandaolivares7926]

They did a very bad job discrediting him, if anything he proved to be 10 times the expert they have.

[@fernandaolivares7926]

​@@cady__Totally agree

[@howardrichard8544]

Wow. What trial are you people watching. Prosecutor destroyed this expert. Wait and see

[@spirit13the1st6]

​THE DR. IS NOT ON TRIAL

[@Onewayoflife75]

How can he be a retained Dr!?!?! He should be struck off & held in contempt of court!!!!! Shocking

[@JennyLouLou]

What on earth do you mean? This is a standard defense. Noone is going to cut corners then risk having a verdict thrown out.

[@syon600]

He's a psychologist.

[@Zzx75]

The prosecutor is all over the doctor.

[@L-n-o-v-a]

😂

[@endavi1214]

The time closer to the shooting gives a better understanding of what the boy was experiencing.

[@meganbaldwin1699]

This doctors patient portal needs to be very concerned. 😧

[@seanphoebejames316]

😂😂😂😂

[@donnamorgan2522]

I don’t understand why the Doctor didn’t have his ph if it held relevant evidence he may need? That seems incredibly unprofessional & I’m curious if he was a defence or prosecution witness? Not having his ducks-in-a-row looks to me as tho he has developed a liking for Ethan over the hrs

[@michelleabraham6625]

This so-called doctor is what we call in the legal field .... a HIRED LIAR and ruined his career PUBLICLY!

[@melsafken764]

He is testifying for the defense.

[@Leifmommy]

By the way I have a young teenager once he just turned an adult I still says I love ❤ you and still hugs him and accompany him every where And I dropped everything when he needed me especially when he is feeling so bad Be responsible for your kids Be loving ❤ parent and mother Ask them whats bothering them always tell them that you're there always when they needed you Hugs them like a baby when they are feeling so so bad be there

[@KT27RN]

I’m shocked how blatantly the defense rolls her eyes when she doesn’t like something. 1:27:54 she also does it during the prosecution‘s closing argument during the Miller trials. It’s unprofessional.

[@PirateLeota]

True, but I'll take her eye-rolling over Shannon Smith's histrionics any day.

[@endavi1214]

The school could have reached out and done more early on.

[@Sunflower-lu3sm]

The teacher did call the alarm but wasn’t taken seriously. The counselor & principal didn’t listen to the teachers advice or concerns. They should not have allowed Ethan to stay in school that day. The parents should have been told no take him home. Take him to be evaluated.

[@Sunflower-lu3sm]

Yes, they were with him on the daily even more than the parents.

[@Bev26]

@@Sunflower-lu3sm with how many other kids to watch they had one child

[@GLeon-ov9yu]

The doctor is calm, articulate and answering questions to the best of his ability.

[@christinawadsworth501]

He didn't show up very prepared, though

[@loopy1159]

The Dr is a nut case. U wouldn't be an Amerikkkian by any chance. Do any of you have intelligence

[@loopy1159]

​@@christinawadsworth501no he didn't

[@michelleabraham6625]

Problem is he can't explain why he came to his conclusion without a full record presented by the defense and, most likely he was HIRED to fit the defenses narrative making him a HIRED LIAR!

[@jsheldon1976]

@@michelleabraham6625My thoughts exactly!!

[@Sunflower-lu3sm]

For Ethan to do these shorting with out any emotion or disorganized manner should be enough to show he was not in his right mind. Would have to mental or drugged to not have any emotion /anger/ frustration/ anxiety/ depression/ etc. he showed nothing. No response of any kind of emotion.

[@amybattiste5077]

Premeditated, he planned it

[@L-n-o-v-a]

But you could say the same thing about a lot of murderers. That is why it kind of confuses me why there is such a high threshold for defendants to be found insane. I feel like a lot, if not most murderers are probably insane…? But I guess it’s not enough to be psychopathic. The threshold for insanity in the court system is high. It’s definitely not enough to just claim depression and anxiety lol

[@danielleyeap]

Suicidal ideation is a reflection of psychosis?!?!? WHATTT. Thats offensive, imo

[@kathyk-h-w1874]

A depression can become so severe that it includes psychotic features --those features typically remit once the depression responds to treatment (medication in such a case coupled with therapy)

[@sansserif8839]

Doc thinks everything is psychosis and mental illness.

[@sansserif8839]

​@@kathyk-h-w1874 There's severe depression without psychosis, and a person might have suicidal ideation without ever attempting suicide. Suicidal ideation doesn't automatically mean psychosis.

[@kathyk-h-w1874]

@@sansserif8839 Of course. I'm commenting on only one aspect of depression.

[@cassandra3862]

The issue of the reports is very odd. Why would the second report ‘continue to be worked upon’?

[@michelleabraham6625]

Exactly! Because this QUACK DEFENSE expert is trying to conform his narrative to fit their case. He's what we call in the legal field ... A HIRED LIAR !!!!!!😂

[@ileanahernandez1709]

Because the patient isn't dead.

[@lauratancredi3385]

Because new information is constantly being received

[@naomivantonder1161]

Timeline in murders is allways important. This doc should have been better prepared. This is embarrassing.

[@fernandaolivares7926]

He did drop the ball on the dates but where they really that relevant?

[@jupo9928]

Fern...: It wasn't just the dates he screwed up

[@fernandaolivares7926]

@@jupo9928 he didn't screw up at all, it was all the way the prosecution made it seem, but the couple of good points he seemed to make where swiftly explained away on redirect, the dr held his own because he was being truthful and had the tests to lean on.

[@w.i.t.c.h.1330]

More and more I become me angrier with the parents vs Ethan. He is fully responsible for the deaths, yes, but he was neglected from this testimony.

[@bluckyjones]

Me too....they are epic failures as human beings & had no business being parents. No doubt in my mind they are the root cause of this kid doing what he did & thinking the way he was in order to pull it off. They need the hell beat out of em & imo they should be imprisoned for life. This is tragic & disgusting. I dont even know whats happening to the parents. Are they in jail? Have they already had a trial? Sentencing? I think from all the other things that's happened in the world since this tragedy my attention was taken away from this case so I'm lost to anything that's occurred aside of watching this trial the past week ....do yal know whats going on with the parents? Cuz it would be a huge miscarriage of justice for the parents to be free.

[@JennyLouLou]

His parents will be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

[@L-n-o-v-a]

@@JennyLouLoumaybe we’ll find out tomorrow when jury begins deliberations.

[@Mamarchist]

Did they hire these "experts" from temp agencies?! 😳

[@hansmir5443]

I feel like the Doctor has done something wrong or not revealing something 🙄🙄🙄

[@valeriemanuel1346]

I sympathize with Ethan having negligent parents. This is the result of their neglect and Ethan's desire to have their attention. I don’t think this doctor helped him very much if any. He's a terrible expert witness.

[@maureennelle2698]

He didn't even know when the birds were tortured!?! he literally didn't know!!! That's INSANE!!!!! He came on board in the 11 th hour and did a shambles of a finding, imo.

[@sansserif8839]

I'm sickened by how this doctor glossed over the torture and murder of the baby birds. He only used the incidents to gain compassion for Ethan. Poor Ethan, he was in pain so he hurt the birds. Poor Ethan. POOR MURDERED STUDENTS AND THEIR FAMILIES, DOCTOR.

[@L-n-o-v-a]

@@sansserif8839I was like omg gtfo when he said that Ethan tortured the baby birds to express the pain he felt inside. It’s like…but he enjoyed hurting them

[@deeannwebster6030]

Watching these Miller hearings (and this Dr), really makes me wonder what else he abused/tortured, I’m afraid it wasn’t limited to birds, maybe his kitty named Dexter? I found Dexter to be an interesting/ironic name, wondered if there’s any connection to the TV series named Dexter, which was gruesome and torturous.

[@L-n-o-v-a]

@@deeannwebster6030 I think he liked Dexter. He wrote a diary entry before the shooting had happened about how he was laying in bed watching something with his cat Dexter, and said that Dexter was adorable and that he wished he could stay in that moment

[@L-n-o-v-a]

@@deeannwebster6030 I think Dexter the show was one of his favorite tv shows

[@timothyfreeseha4056]

Prosecutor would make me nervous..er, good job..

[@spirit13the1st6]

Only if you are guilty or unprepared. He's a bully and thats whats wrong with the country.

[@janforrest5205]

The doctor (Dr King) being interviewed is very vague and seems a bit incompetent to me.

[@lesleyhughes3174]

We all have our own way of speaking, explaining, especially if born elsewhere.

[@naomivantonder1161]

Where is Dr King from please?

[@timothyfreeseha4056]

No doubt an expert and honest testimony from the Doc. However, his underlined evaluation may not not have served Ethan as well as seems possible with less explained and other specifics underlined. Not a criticism as much as an observation. Ethan could have been better served with so much at stake.

[@monicaldr3711]

I think the Dr is very good and seems passionate about what he does the problem is that the prosecuting attorney is also very good at what he does and his job is to discredit the defenses witnesses and experts and he gets the job done...I'd def want that attorney on my team..

[@lorrayshillingsniderhan1652]

That Doctor is not to bright

[@naomivantonder1161]

A copy of the Acis citation should be part of the report. why mention it if he had not used it?

[@fernandaolivares7926]

Also why even mention brain injury when neither side scanned him!

[@michelleabraham6625]

Probably bc he's a HIRED LIAR 😂😂😂😂😂

[@MsChristinaLS]

Prosecutor is really splitting hairs with this doctor…

[@jupo9928]

Disagree, I have a phd in clinical and health psych and there are basic things he didn't do that any psychologist with a PhD should have done.

[@spirit13the1st6]

​he's not on trial

[@melsafken764]

​@@spirit13the1st6 He is supposed to be an expert witness, so he IS basically on trial. His report has to be accurate.

[@ileanahernandez1709]

Prosecutor is nitpicking.

[@michelleabraham6625]

And doing it very well !!! This quack doctor is getting his HEAD SPLIT .... enough so to have his testimony thrown in the garbage where it belongs!!!!

[@Sunflower-lu3sm]

The prosecutor is a dock.

[@pauline_raabe]

Why is it when a witness that's a Professional knowingly is called to testify in a court of law they are never prepared to answer questions on a case they worked on themselves and can't remember a darn thing about it?, Obviously this Dr. didn't do his homework.

[@incarau]

Many time the prosecution hide any evidence that is against the prosecution.

[@AR-mu2rz]

The doctor has written a report on 5 factors and fails to remember them for court? Is it just me or this is absolutely absurd? How do you write a report recommendations and not know the 5 factors upon which your report is based?

[@nesslinger1]

I wish you could shadow a judge. I'd love to see his notes and what he's actually writing. What is relevant to him in this situation

[@obiecat3341]

Does this ”expert “ remember much of anything? He doesn’t seem to have a lot prepared

[@olive3700]

At the very least he could speak up.

[@timothyfreeseha4056]

I wonder why- perhaps i missed it, the Defence Dr. did not make a case For Ethan about the inability of someone so young having no real experience/ reference for death. I would argue/ present the idea that children do not- generally, understand death as a real consequence of the desire to impose death or destruction. Rightfully so for all of us. But this understanding is relevant to his decision making process. Not a video game.

[@maryerichardson8302]

Very interesting comment. I’m unsure how I feels about it in this particular case, but you are definitely right.

[@Sunflower-lu3sm]

Unless he had experience death of a grandparent, close relative or a family pet I agree he probably didn’t fully understand the true reality of death but after shooting the first victim he should have been hit with reality. I agree the parents were not giving him the attention he should have had. If they had been paying attention to him they most likely would have understood that he was in destress. Unfortunately, they were only thinking of their needs. Because of that I don’t think either parent had a clue what was going on with Ethan. They bought him a gun because he wanted one. I don’t think either one ever considered that he could or would do something like this. He pulled the trigger not them. Had they been loyal carrying parents 1st not just shutting him up by giving him what he wants. If they thought about his needs and feelings they would have known he was this desperate for attention. He is guilty of killing. They are guilty of negligence.

[@timothyfreeseha4056]

@@Sunflower-lu3sm agree

[@L-n-o-v-a]

He did have a death of their family dog and he experienced death firsthand when he was torturing and killing baby birds. He talked about wanting to kidnap a baby and throw it off a cliff and stuff. It isn’t normal to have an urge to kill

[@nancynagy2384]

I had to fast forward on this Doctors testimony for the Defense. He was not prepared

[@gooodies4u1]

That's the defense fault. This doctor stated he is not familiar with court testimony. It's way different

[@dawngasque5272]

I think he can be rehabilitated and his parents knew and I'm happy that they are going to be tried for the four counts of involuntary manslaughter

[@caterinawilliams998]

I think he can be rehabilitated, but I m not sure his parents can

[@user-or6ep1cg5h]

I'm soo the fence of him being able to being rehabilitated but I know for a fact his parents were neglectful but so was the school

[@Messpinoza80]

Sadistic behavior cannot be rehabilitated

[@incarau]

That is true.

[@incarau]

The culpability should go to the School District, his parents and his teacher that didn’t take it serious. Most of those witnesses for the prosecution don’t believe in God. Only one father talked on Forgiveness. How many of those witnesses said that they will never forgive? So, that showed that most of them never read the BIBLE.

[@incarau]

The Doctor is not a lawyer, so I don’t know why that prosecutor ask about the LAW.

[@endavi1214]

This looks really bad on the state and court system in your state because this young man did not a proper diagnosis.

[@tigerlilygirl2643]

I don't think this xr is necessarily bad at his specialty, i just think he doesn't understand how to testify in court bc he hasn't done it enough. Nevertheless, it is really hard to watch.

[@NellaBLavish]

He didn’t forget that egg and bowl to prove something irrelevant tho!

[@L-n-o-v-a]

1:14:10 point for the prosecution

[@naomivantonder1161]

Incomplete documentation from a doctor is negligence. He does not belong on the stand.

[@MsChristinaLS]

What incompetent documentation are you referring to? The prosecutor is using Google to search for medical citations…

[@spirit13the1st6]

He has the documentation they want him to produce in minutes while on the stand.

[@chapmans84]

This is the way lawyers treat each other and anyone they talk to. Its so wrong.

[@kimmiep5870]

All I have to say watching the cross examination is..... AWKWARD!! 😂

[@gooodies4u1]

He is mentally ill. However all mental illness doesnt mean you dont know right from wrong. It just may make you more prone and harder to control certain actions. Nor does everyone with a psych diagnosis mean you cant stand trial which this doctor did find him competent to do so even in face of his diagnosis. It is the defense fault to not properly testify in court. As he stated he is not familiar with court testimony. Hearings are brutal if you are not familiar on how to navigate. Even parking violations court can be the way they come at you when you completely in the right. A lawyer can make you unnknow what you know

[@naomivantonder1161]

This doc definitely did not come prepared.

[@Sunflower-lu3sm]

Prosecutor needs to be shut down by the judge. His approach and questioning are completely out of line. If I was there I would be charged with assault for attacking that as$ hol@.

[@user-ht1xo3ki2t]

I know I am late in the game on this court hearing but. People do things that are crazy all the time without being insane. He became completely obsessed with the idea that he was a killer. He wanted to prove it to himself and he did. That does not give him a pass. He picked people who had absolutely no way of defending themselves in the moment, wait till he tries that in prison. People grow up unloved all the time and they do not obsess themselves with killing. And it does not make them insane when they become a menace to society

[@bellavita3097]

Dr. King is correct! And is spot on. One or two of his head injuries could’ve caused this mental illness. I wish they had a medical doctor to say what his CAT scan would look like. He should be in a mental hospital 100%

[@loopy1159]

Dr King is an absolute dill. Wtf is wrong with u Amerikkians

[@michelleabraham6625]

Must be watching something else bc this quack doctor is getting his HEAD SPLIT ....

[@vickimaccallum]

58:11 I think all up to this point actually points out that the prosecutor’s witness was not thorough. They’re kinda shooting themselves in the foot because it’s now clear she didn’t do the tests

[@samfarley6122]

This doctor was an idiot

[@chapmans84]

Who could handle this treatment.

[@ladybuglwaw4050]

Doctor ? I don’t think so

[@aliciazermeno1315]

They are really not treating this doctor very well

[@michelleabraham6625]

Why should they when the doctor is a HIRED LIAR !!!!

[@spirit13the1st6]

But he's not on trial.

[@melsafken764]

​@@spirit13the1st6but his testimony IS on trial.

[@incarau]

All the abuses that Ethan was witness and the fact of ignoring him, and the parents fault of letting him to watch videos that at his age shouldn’t be watching those videos.

[@incarau]

The male prosecutor is angry and rude.

[@lesleyhughes3174]

Sound @ witness box is shocking

[@oleksowurszula]

What a mess 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@MoonLight-yr6of]

The prosecutor’s questioning is disrespectful. He is dissecting and nitpicking away at the doctor's report. A doctor's report should hold as much weight as the evidence does. The prosecutor is speaking to him tartly and rudely a bit, and it's impressive to me this Doctor can withstand the insults. The prosecutor disagrees with the doctor's finding. He should hire his doctor and get a second opinion and then come back to this and see what was found. Make a comparison.

[@christinawadsworth501]

The quack didn't come to court very well prepared. His testimony is meaningless and his credibility shot

[@loopy1159]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@jupo9928]

He had massive holes in his report. This is how trials work.

[@loopy1159]

He was a paid witness for the defence nothing at all to do with the prosecution. They had their own dr report Did u miss that? He was hopeless never did much at all he didn't even read all journals or watch the films used txts from years ago. he made things up as he went along. He was a bubbling mess. He knew nothing about the shooter. I'm pretty sure no one will ever give him a job as a witness again he was dreadful. You need to go watch it again, he couldn't cite where he got his information from, he admitted that as he went along. He didn't even have the correct documents. It's like he made it up as he went along. He worked out to be good for the prosecution. How did you not get that??

[@Sunflower-lu3sm]

I totally agree, this procicuuter is down right rude and condescending. The Dr. is aware of this attack and is taking his time to respond accurately and thoroughly to avoid being processiquted by this nasty attacker.

[@edithcrosby840]

The volume ucked up 👂

[@naomivantonder1161]

This must be so difficult for him to go against his colleagues findings.

[@fernandaolivares7926]

And yet he is in the right because the other doctor diagnosed the kid with zero tests performed which is a travesty.

[@naomivantonder1161]

@@fernandaolivares7926 I agree to that

[@user-zp9br7jk9k]

he's being paid to say this.

[@hathhath2444]

I actually don't think this was that bad. They had to attack everything he said because it was a good start for defense. If you wanna see terrible expert, check Leticia stauch and her expert. That was definitely worse!

[@derekjames-pq6ii]

Who wasn't Bully

[@olive3700]

Are you saying you were a bully?

[@JennyLouLou]

Im betting someone's assistant is in HUGE trouble for these major scew ups.

[@tamirevoir1500]

Even if he has a heavy case load hard to remember everyone ,this one is pretty different

[@incarau]

All of them are bad for you. So, don’t deceived people.

[@naomivantonder1161]

They should provide a decent desk to the doc.

[@christinawadsworth501]

he didn't ned to bring his props to court. The guys a quack

[@naomivantonder1161]

@@christinawadsworth501 I agree with you there

[@user-xc5cw5lu5h]

He mean

[@derekjames-pq6ii]

He was bullied not shot

[@riverjewel]

Is there a part 13?

[@karimahoney5708]

What’s with the egg demonstration? How lame!

[@naomivantonder1161]

I do not think this doc was briefed on what will be expected from him and this is also his first time in court. He sounds a bit unsure of his answers. Where is this dr from? Which country?

[@TakenTook]

The defense attorney did not seem to prepare him for cross examination. But it is very surprising he didn't have exact citations for the various assessment tools and research studies that he used just as a matter of routine! As a medical professional familiar with academic research, he should already be used to documenting things in a very detailed way, whenever giving a presentation. Even if he was just giving a lecture to a group of colleagues at a continuing medical education event, he should cite all of his sources, either as footnotes in his slides, listed in an electronic syllabus, or printed as part of a paper syllabus. I'm shocked he wouldn't have done at least as much before testifying in a court case, whether or not the defense attorney recommended that he do so

[@fernandaolivares7926]

I disagree, the questions where all trick questions with no relevance just to confuse him, he actually held his own, he kept repeating he based his diagnose on the many tests he performed which the state's expert did not. Not one single psychologist would agree on diagnosing someone with zero tests! The prosecution had no leg to stand on today and it was obvious because the doctor never contradicted himself. I don't think there is psychiatrist watching this that would disagree with this doctor and many (if not all) would have a problem with the state's expert diagnosis.

[@fernandaolivares7926]

​@@TakenTookhe did have the details of all the tools he used, he just didn't have exact dates and times. He was able to list and explain every single test he performed which are the basis for any diagnose, the expert who did not perfom ANY tests was the state's expert.

[@TakenTook]

@@fernandaolivares7926-- While I agree this expert does know what he is talking about, and he performed the necessary testing to determine that Ethan is indeed mentally ill, and most likely has a type of psychosis, I'm surprised that he left very simple citations out of his report. I'm sure he could find the exact references that the prosecuting attorney was asking for, but I'm surprised he didn't just automatically have those available as part of his report. I agree with you that the prosecuting attorney is just trying to rattle him, and not all of the questions are relevant. But having the exact literature citations for the assessment tools and research studies that he included is a very simple and usually automatic part of composing any type of report or presentation.

[@aslizera]

Really!? You’re asking where he is from! Does it matter he is a human being just like you the only difference is you’re a bully, you actually need him maybe you can change your mind in a good way. You are full of hate

[@bluckyjones]

Man....im sorry but the defense council sucks azz.....i completely get the points this doc was trying to make & i agree & believe that this kid was failed from day 1....his parents were selfish & pure trash!!! They absolutely play a huge part in why this kid did what he did & imo i feel like he acted in a way to try to prove to his parents to take him seriously. Like im screaming for u to pay me attention & help me but u ignore me & think ima joke by minimizing every thought & idea that i have so watch this....lets see how invisible you think i am after i do something so horrific u have no choice but to see me & take notice that im sick now. It makes me sick that he felt he had to go to this level to be seen & heard. Im not absolving him from responsibility im simply saying he sure af didnt get there on his own. Put his garbage box mom & dad up under the jail. 😫🤬🤬

[@Leifmommy]

This doctor is like high hahaha hahaha look at him come on eh Not reliable doctor to me how you brought him to be here to be witness for what eh no wonder this kid found guilty hahaha

[@a-jheney102]

Not a good idea when defense attorneys are this aggresively disparAging in tine & demeniur when trying to.insinuate a prejudice frim.tge wutness ratger than a reasoned opinion .

[@ExploreAmerica]

I bet if teachers were allowed to carry and conceal schools wouldn’t be such a target. People with guns go to the place of least resistance, police stations, not gun clubs.

[@christinawadsworth501]

I'm sorry that your mother was unable to get an abortion when she found out that you are retarded

[@ileanahernandez1709]

Eliminate the guns eliminate the killings.

[@jupo9928]

And what if a teacher doesn't want to use a gun? What if they accidentally kill a kid? What of a kid steals the gun which is now very available within the classroom and shoots their peers and teachers. It doesn't work. We should try and fix the issues on a societal level and provide a safety net when we have harming parents.

[@spirit13the1st6]

It would be a disaster. A lot of women ( who are the majority of teachers in America) dont want any parts of a firearm.

[@ruthcassidy6052]

I'd never allow my child(ren) to go to a school where the teachers are armed.

[@ExplorewithSarahlouise]

That prosecutor is useless I think they might lose

[@hansmir5443]

Its mostly on the parents shoulder. Some parents raise kids like they are free to do anything

[@jackiebaker1678]

This psychologist is brilliant!!! The male prosecutor is a jerk ( or worst that I can’t say herself) IMHO

[@melsafken764]

?? Huh? The Dr didn't administer the required tests. He didn't provide references for his report. His interviews were not dated. There were 3 different reports floating around. The Dr. didn't even bring his calendar which is absolutely required.

[@brocktonma.1816]

The black “Dr” at the end is useless.

[@spirit13the1st6]

The" black docter" we been here over 400 years and you still talk crazy like that.

[@brocktonma.1816]

@@spirit13the1st6 yup

[@kristinludwig4828]

He’s literally the only doctor in the video. You don’t need to label him as “the black one”. 🙄

[@sansserif8839]

He is a doctor, isn't he?