Engcon tiltrotator repair gearhouse welding part 3

It's finally time for the next part of my Engcon tiltrotator repair series, this is the part 3 check out
Part 1 here • Fixing a broken Engcon...
Part 2 here • Welding the Engcon til...
#Minimachines #Tiltrotator #Rototilt

[@daleotto5748]

Hi I enjoy watching the video. If you have the rotation still on the cracks.the rod you are using is wrong and you need higher heat on welder and you need to heat entire unit to be consistent moving over metal hitting with hammer will shock it need to wait until cooled off. Also need to heat it consistent when cooling it down I use a oven and decrease it with heat having just blankets is way to fast. Can't use cast rods on cast steal need rods of similar metal softer and a rod metal that can flex and move. Also the parts need to be super super clean!!! Can't stress enough super clean the metal is poured and is pourous and holds oils in side the metal so I have better results when stocking it in in a tub of kerosene and then a something next of with less oils like old gasoline one with no ethanol because ethanol has way to many buy products. Remember to pay attention to heating and cooling slow slow and when you think you are going to slow slow down some more and even more slower !!! Next super clean everything even the brushes and anything that touches the metal even the rods. Use acetylene to have more control over the heating after out of the oven like a huge rose tip or first propane torch not a small one big Rose tips propane will not get you hot enough still will need oxy acetylene you need to get it so hot that it seems like it's melting before welding and definitely super high heat on the arc welder after cleaning up with the arc welder then you could use the mig torch MIG welder to fill in where the heat was so high that it melted keeping everything super clean and still keeping the heat in it always heating while welding as well keeping all of the metal similar temperatures and then I can't stress enough cooling it down is so much more important than the welds themselves needs to take time I put it in the oven and then I'll go out every 15 minutes or so and bring the temperature down a little bit each time your welder needs to be 220 230 feel free to ask any more questions hope the project goes better for you I have more information as well just it's hard to explain everything I hope you haven't given up on the project I would grind down everything you've done so far to fresh metal keeping four points of contact of original metal if possible and start from scratch I think it can be repaired I know it can be repaired also on the outside go with more weld on any place there's no clearance issues go heavier with the metal weld it out make it stronger don't worry about the paint paint is only to where I use it to find find imperfections keep it looking good and for safety good luck Dale

[@donc81]

Keith fenner has alot of videos dealing with cast iron repair. Cast can be difficult to repair. If anything you can use this as a learning experience. You really showed alot of patience and perseverance. Definitely put in a good effort

[@MiniMachines1]

Thank you will check it out, got a lot of comments with great ideas so I'm guessing it will be a part 4 of this video series :)

[@ronnidinesen3947]

Got exact the same issue by welding a gearbox casing for an old Aebi TP1000. What i did to succeed was to preheat the whole gearbox casing and then just weld very small part of it at the time and beat the hell out of each weld with the chipping hammer, to prevent the welds to crimp too much. Finally under cooldown I did preheat it slowly until i was quite cool and then cover it in a welding blanket over night till it was fully cooled down. I got the best result by using SS316L rods when welding the gearbox casing, instead of using ENiCL 99% Nickel/Cast iron electrodes.

[@MiniMachines1]

Really think I should have tested that, looks like that's the way to go with pree heat of everything, don't have the equipment for it sadly.

[@brucedavenport1324]

Man ,you have the patience of a saint .

[@MiniMachines1]

He he well I do like testing and trying to learn new stuff, but it's not that fun when it turns out like this, but a lot of comments with good ideas to test next time so that's really nice :)

[@tmack2090]

you have a top notch channel here !!!! keep up the great work with your videos !!!! thanks for sharing !!!

[@MiniMachines1]

Thank you glad your enjoying it :)

[@tmack2090]

your welcome !!

[@Mudmowerdiesel]

Amazing video

[@iwandeegenaars1552]

Nice video

[@johnpullman3227]

Thanks for the hours you spend recording and editing your videos and thanks for sharing with us your projects even if some of them don't turn out so well. That's life after all. Next time you’re trying to repair a casting like that try brazing the cracks after you have ground them out rather than welding. The bronze is much more ductile than iron and because it melts at a lower temperature you are putting less heat into the casting. You will still have to heat the whole thing up because it is a huge heat sink to get the bronze to flow correctly and bond to the steel. Maybe experiment on smaller items first. I taught myself to weld and braze 50 years ago and I still have mixed results on stuff I try to repair. Sometimes it can't be fixed and that's all there is to it. Next project.......

[@MiniMachines1]

Thank you for kind words and tips, I got an video tip in one of the comments here about welding with copper twisted around the welding rod. Not sure still what I will do about it, I guess if I get time on my hand I will try once more.

[@johnpullman3227]

@@MiniMachines1 Bronze welding "Brazing" is done with an oxyacetylene torch. I have done brazing repairs on stuff that size and if the casting doesn't have to much oil embedded in it then the flux will get the bronze to flow where you need it. It just needs the right amount of heat. It will not flow correctly if it's too cold. You just keep adding to it like melting wax or TIG welding.

[@JonDingle]

Perhaps pre-heat a bigger area between 400 and not more than 500degrees C, weld it up and then immediately place in a steel bucket or box and cover with very, very dry sand such as blast media. I repaired an old vice that had been in the family for decades that my grandfather had rescued and it hasn't cracked or broken. There is a video on my channel but you can skip through the boring bits to see how I did the repair.

[@MiniMachines1]

Yes I also think my main problem was to little torch so I couldn't get the whole thing hot. Tried to pack it into blankets and stuff to slow down the cooling, but when the first mistake was not enough heat in the part it didn't help. Will check out your video for tips for av other time 😉

[@MrVile-bz9fw]

Suggestion, since it is cast iron. I have done repairs to cast iron by Brazing it. The big trouble is preheating & maintaining a slow cooling.

[@MiniMachines1]

Yes I did the slowed down cooling in the Part 2 video, but this time it cracked before I was done, so probably need to heat up the whole thing.

[@victorpartelow6842]

1st Nice video

[@douglasthompson2740]

Cast iron, steel, and aluminum often are made with the cheapest grade recycled materials and consequently when welding impurities come out in the puddle causing porosity which propagates cracks both surface and subsurface. These can occur right away or over time. With metals having low quality control (a big problem with China) you don't always know what quality the metal is.

[@christophergalloway7647]

I love your videos! Greetings from USA! I have a personal question for you since you have quite a few machines as well. I'm a landscaper and I have an old 3.5 ton new holland excavator but sometimes it's too big or heavy for some jobs. I am thinking of buying a small Jansen mb1500 excavator- what do you think of this machine??? For 11,500.00 it comes with a grapple 3 buckets and a ripper thing. It's a European company is why I thought u may know something Jansen. They've only been here in the states for 8 years

[@Larsema1]

I just watched a video of the mb 1500, and the hydraulics seems really jerky. But it could still be very useful in lots of jobs. Very easy to transport and a low price. And since you have another machine that is stronger, has better reach and probably smoother hydraulics, the mb 1500 could be a nice complement. Else I would go for a used one from a more known brand, and maby a little bigger, like 1,5 ton, if you don't need a supersmall one, or carry on a light truck.

[@MiniMachines1]

Thank you nice to hear :) I also have a lot of jobs the Terex won't fit in so having an smaller machine is very nice, saves a lot of manual work. About the Jansen I would not have bought that one, it has an small petrol engine, that probably need to run on full throttle to keep up with the hydraulics (Same size engine as in my Hinowa tracked mini dumper) The engine lasts about 500 hours in that one, needs a lot of rpm to do hills and stuff that is heavy so I will guess excavating is the same. The video I found of it they have put music over the video when it's excavating, guessing that's an reason for that. I also read an tread on a forum of a guy in the same situation as you, bought an small china machine for doing light work, he ended up with the machine breaking from viberation, always something wrong, lost work had to hire an machine since his broke down and so on.

[@clunimog3398]

To day in school we welded cast Iron, we used special welding rods and the trick to prevent it from cracking is to hammer on the weld, direktlie after welding

[@clunimog3398]

Sorry for my bei english 😬 , you can send me your email , for more informations

[@MiniMachines1]

According to the manufacturer this housing is suppose to be cast steel not iron, if you see my part 2 of this series I'm going true the difference in welding those two. But still I am hammering the weld, but I'm probably welding to big,and that's why it cracks 😒 you'll find my email in my channel info 👍

[@clunimog3398]

I will ask my teacher tomorow how to weld it , he has a lot of expirence , probably je has an solution

[@clunimog3398]

I will ask my teacher tomorow how to weld it , he has a lot of expirence , probably je has an solution

[@MiniMachines1]

@@clunimog3398 Sounds great :) Thank you

[@rodrigovidal8421]

to fill it up try with MIG-MAG , it is provably better to fill and cleans better the welds, but any way good job and video!

[@MiniMachines1]

I need to see if I'm going to try again, Knowing my self I probably will... Than I can test with the MIG, I did use the mig in part 2 but it cracked at once, so than I changed to the electrodes that was better for high tensile strength.

[@motor_viking]

preheating the complete item , i think the new small cracks would not have come.but yaaa its a hard job you have there , i always try to use my friend how is living of welding items

[@MiniMachines1]

I think so too, but with all the snow we got this winter there was no time for more trying, so I'm thinking about buying a new house for it. It will still be much cheaper than buying a new tiltrotator.

[@RandomsFandom]

put in oven, and heat part to 460 or more, then weld while inside oven if possible, close door, an temp down to 400, and bake for 40 min. then shut off oven with part inside. this process will help normalize the stresses in the metal. otherwise you create more cracks to chase down like you did

[@MiniMachines1]

Thank you for the comment, sadly my girlfriend don't let me in the kitchen with the part, an specially a welder.. But If I ever try again it will be with preheat of the whole housing.

[@RandomsFandom]

@@MiniMachines1 ive seen it done in a propane or charcoal grill. nickle rod is expensive but preferred for cast repair

[@MiniMachines1]

@@RandomsFandom That's actually an easy way to heat the whole thing :D The rods I use OK48.15 is suppose to be good with cast iron also.

[@AdamGruszon]

I guess the problem is that this steel cast, when you heat it, it's shrink (cools down) to fast, that's why it's crack time after time.. Possibly, if you heat whole thing to the same temperature, it would let you weld it with out cracking. But, I'm not sure, it must be this metal fault. Maybe it could be fixed, but not with a standard welding method.

[@MiniMachines1]

As East Ridge Racing comment they have welded some tiltrotators and few of them lasts, so that makes me feel an bit better, but it is probably as you say the heat and cold, I don't have equipment to keep the whole thing 200 Celsius under welding, I've tried cooling it slowly in the earlier videos, this time it cracked even before i was done welding. I think maybe if I weld it more like cast iron a little at the time that will be better, but no idea just guessing. Before you know it I'm down in the garage again trying something new...

[@Military-Museum-LP]

I've used and abused my same brand tilt/rotor but never experienced any problems. I've never been able to weld cast metal. These are heat stress cracks. Maybe MIG might have been able to fuse the metal with less heat.

[@MiniMachines1]

This one had been mounted on a to big excavator probably so that's why it broke, I bought it broken and plan A was using parts for my homemade one, but welding was something I wanted to try. I started with MIG but the electrodes I use are better for taking up stress in the metal so I thought I had better chance with that.

[@saff_cozzie]

Stop start welding will give you cold welds on start and end of runs my mig can run 1.2mm wire but we run .8mm for better burn in

[@davidleandersson7194]

I think you need to preheat more maybe even let the flame heat as you weld because that's such a big part. And if you can, try heating it whit an oxy acetylene torch cast iron/steel needs to be very hot to weld. If that doesn't work, you can try brazing it.

[@MiniMachines1]

I think you are correct, but I only have the small torch so I'm thinking about getting an extra oven to heat it in the garage to 200 degrees Celsius and try.

[@davidleandersson7194]

@@MiniMachines1 I had probably waited until I could invest in a gas welder or try to borrow one. I promise you when you have one you will use it for everything. 🤔😉🙃

[@MiniMachines1]

Yes I can see some situations it would be handy, space for all tools are one of my problems, I got a really small garage 😔

[@Archer2929]

I am no expert but from what i have seen you need a higher preheat and preheat the whole part. Slower cool down may help too.

[@MiniMachines1]

Looks like you guys are on to something there, don't have the equipment for heating the whole thing sadly....

[@saff_cozzie]

You have got something that will the other half won't like it in the kitchen though 🤣

[@johnpullman3227]

You probably already have thought of this but what about buying a new casting from the manufacturer? They show part numbers for all the components on their website.

[@MiniMachines1]

I have but the price is a little high, I only do excavation as an hobby beside my day job so don't want to much invested in just toys 😅

[@Murphyslawfarm]

G'day

[@jamesdees4604]

You will need to preheat whole casting can’t weld hot to cold

[@MiniMachines1]

Yes I think you are right about that, I will try to do that as soon as I get some time. Thank you for the tip.

[@Larsema1]

I think you weld to wide. Try not moving the weldingrod sideways. I had the same problem when I welded one of my tiltrotators, but then I started weld along the cracks without filling them first. Then I welded one straight stroke in the middle of the crack, binding the welds together. That way the sidewelds shrink first, without creating any tension, and only the last narrow weld shrinks a little after binding the sidewelds of the crack. I hope you understand my bad english. Else ask. By the way, if you have any casting company near by, you can ask them to cast a copy of your rotorhouse for personal use. Not for selling. Kan göra ett försök att förklara på svenska också. Undvik att svetsa så breda strängar. Svetsa smala strängar längs sidorna på sprickan först så dom hinner kallna och krympa det mesta utan att skapa spännigar runt sprickan. Avsluta med att lägga en tunn rak sträng längs mitten av sprickan så du förbinder strängarna på sidorna. För att minsa risken för sprickor ytterligare kan du slå lite med en körnare längs sidorna av strängen medan den kallnar så expanderar du materialet lite samtidigt som det krymper. Lycka till! Ser fram emot nästa video!

[@MiniMachines1]

I think you are on to something, that was one of my guesses also that I welded to big the last time I tried and that's why it cracked so bad, The first time I welded it was only one small crack and now they where many and big. And heating the whole thing would maybe also help.

[@Larsema1]

@@MiniMachines1 I did the same misstakes as you first. Guess we all have to go that way :D And its still not easy to weld without cracks. It feels like 50% skill and 50% luck. Both things needed to success :D

[@KalleAnkathn]

Hejsan jag ser att du svetsar med ok 48:15 vilket är helt fel elektrod till gjutjärn, Elektroden du ska ha är typ ok 92:18 och svetsa max 30mm åt gången, förvärm till ca 220° sedan köra med "slaggpikk" på det svetsade matrialet. Lycka till

[@MiniMachines1]

Hei var den jeg fikk anbefalt, var dessverre for vanskelig reperasjon for mine enkle midler så ble å kjøpe ny🫣

[@hpda44]

I don’t know how heavy this piece of metal is,, but have you thought about shipping it out of the country. You have more of a handle on what’s available in you’re part of the world. I watch a lot of KZbin channels that deal with metal and welding certainly there are people in this country that would be great to do it for you and charge you very little. You run a company with a lot of machines and I’m surprised that you don’t have somebody that you deal with from time to time that treat you good.

[@MiniMachines1]

It's heavy, and My plan A was never to weld it, I bought it most for parts for my homemade one, but when I was waiting on getting it shipped to me I started to look into how to weld it, and found out I would try and see if I could do it. Here in Norway it's very expensive to get a metal shop ore something to weld this, shipping it would be very expensive and with no insurance that it would last that could be an waste of money. The most of repairs I do my self and don't need any external company, that saves me a ton of money, and my business is more of an hobby since I have an other daytime job and I do my machine stuff in my free time it's ok to keep cost down.

[@henrikkarlsson2179]

Vid kylning linda in biten i isolering och mycket med och låt den vara det tar ett tag. Vi lagade ett växelhus till ett transportband den låg inlindad i isolering i en vecka och vi använder den nu och den har hållit i 5 år nu.

[@MiniMachines1]

Om du ser del 2 der jeg sveiser første gangen har jeg pakket den inn slik at den får kjøle seg sakte ned, men denne gangen nådde jeg ikke sveise ferdig før den sprakk engang 🙄

[@douglasthompson2740]

PPS: I concur brazing is probably a better process with this kind of material.

[@douglasthompson2740]

PS: The only cure is to weld, grind, weld, grind, weld grind until most of the impurities have boiled out of the weld. No easy way. I don't think you are doing anything wrong that is just the nature of the beast. Downside of crappy metal. Not so much a problem with extrusions as you can see the faults easily and the process doesn't lend itself to the use of impure metals.

[@Deichwerkstatt]

The biggest problem is that you preheat is only on parts and not on the full gearhouse.. even preheating on 200 degrees Celsius in a baking oven will help.

[@MiniMachines1]

Ok, I don't have the equipment for heating the whole thing, my girlfriend wont let me have it in the oven...

[@Deichwerkstatt]

Mini Machines i so stuff like that when the queen is not at home :D when you heat it only in parts you put even more stress into the Part. Heating it completly will help, then welding with suitable electrodes. Really light hammering near the Weld when it cools from glowing red will help to. After welding put the hot part in a Big Pile of Earth or many many towels so that it will cool down really slow. You are on the right way, this thing is Fixable :) A easier way would be to be to brass solder it, but i am not shure about the strength. See this kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2Kagmylma6HfJo

[@sebastianbruvsthus5810]

Kjem det ikkje meir av den heimelaga?

[@MiniMachines1]

Jo venter på en del fra Kina nå så skal den oppgraderes litt 😁

[@sebastianbruvsthus5810]

@@MiniMachines1 ok. Er det fortsatt masse snø oppi nord 😀

[@lennartyngvik117]

KZbin Abom79 is a professional machinist. Check his videos about fixing cast iron. I don't know if it will work on cast steel but it definitely works on cast iron. God luck

[@MiniMachines1]

I follow him on YT, cast steel is suppose to be easier than cast iron to weld, but as I read in the comments I probably should have heated the whole thing.

[@bert26a]

Buy a new housing maybe?

[@MiniMachines1]

Yes I'm thinking about it, looks like don't have time to start trying to weld again summer is here in a couple of months.

[@marcuswadel7517]

Using an IR-thermometer on shiny metal does not work well. Shows totaly wrong value. When you weld cast iron you either go COLD or HOT. If HOT, preheat the whole part and after welding let it slowly reach room temperature, place the part in perlite or some good insulating material that dont burn, stonewool or glasswool. If COLD, weld 25 millimetres in one pass and let the part cold completely between passes. What material are you welding with ? Cast iron is mostly and best welded with nickel or aluminiumbronze.

[@MiniMachines1]

Didn't know that about the IR thermometer, thanks for the tip 😊 the housing is cast steel so according to internet it's was suppose to weld like rolled steel, but it didn't as we could see. When I first welded it I had it packed in blankets for cooling, it's the part 2 of my repairs series. Maybe I shud try the weld it cold, would take a lot of time only with the big gap. I'm using ok48.15 rods that is good on metal with high tensions in the metal. Thanks for the input 😁 with so many good comments with good ideas I'll think there might be an part 4 of this reparation series videos 😇

[@marcuswadel7517]

Cast Steel is cast iron with a very low carbon contempt ? In that case i would try to go cold with ER312. But the way it cracks it looks like a lot of carbon and/or inner stress and in that case i would go cold with ER Ni-1 , which in stick would be like . E Ni-C1 and E 312-17. E 312-17 cold would be my next step after grinding out the old weldmaterial.

[@hanzon]

Alltid svårt att svetsa gjutjärn, man får ta det lugnt så att det inte blir sprickor.

[@MiniMachines1]

Dette er støpe stål så skal være litt enklere å sveise i teorien... Men..

[@hanzon]

@@MiniMachines1 Precis det jag skriver "gjutjärn"

[@MiniMachines1]

@@hanzon he he ok lost in translation 😅 men e nok som du sier sveise litt og litt, hadde vært verre om det var støpejern 😐

[@colmone5592]

You deserved better luck but the steel is no good.

[@hajonor]

Du ber om sprekker når du ikke varmer hele greia. Sveis den heller kald og en cm av gangen, la den kjøle til du kan ta på den før neste cm!

[@MiniMachines1]

Ja det ser ut som om jeg burde varmet hele, nå har jeg såppas mye å sveise at det nesten hadde vært bedre å få varmet hele.

[@johnfulks8821]

acting more like cast iron , probibally need to preheat the entire assembly and maintain the heat as you weld ,

[@MiniMachines1]

Yes i think that would have been the way to go also but a new one was easier🙈

[@hpda44]

Welll that’s really a shame, you spent a lot of time trying to make the repair. Why is it not possible to take it to somebody local? Certainly can send it out to a specialty shop and see if they can help you.

[@NorcraftGaming]

Well if u are a rich yeah lol expensive here in norway

[@MiniMachines1]

Like NorcraftGaming says that would probably be same price as an new housing having it done in a shop.