Mirror Mirror on the wall What's the Best KZ of All!?! Libra Vs Saga Vs ZVX Pro Vs EDC Pro Vs Dawn

[@Helmond2017]

Very nice comparison. The Zenith looks quite interesting too.

[@MR.ROBOTVOLTRON]

By the way great reviews Tony. Your style helped me realize what im looking for. In particular regarding the Dawn as a subject on quality visceral bass. It reminds me that i can go back and put on my Tripowin TC01 and its bass blows away mamy of the newer stuff in terms of impact and slam. You can certainly tell the new stuff has improved in quality though overall in most other categories. What i want though is a return to the old school TC01, KZ Dawn, Kbear KS2, Kbear KS1, just really visceral loud bass. But with a modern twist. Those were driven to loud hard chest thumping levels. Yet i think we could refine that sound with newer drivers and the lessons we learned on improved tuning. There is easier way to impress customers than to put on a thumper just be blown away by not just bass but its impact and quality.

[@colddish]

I hook up the Saga balanced to a Jcally USB and carry it in my bag for daily use. That says much of how I like it. Was in the first place but now second is the Polaris, that addictive sound can only be tuned by CCA engineer. Third is the OG ZVX which is just so fun to listen to. While the Pro addressed the sometimes overly excited treble in the OG, it makes the Pro so much duller, it’s just not fun to listen to.

[@sniperfromhellblaze]

@@colddish broseph, the jacally is the one with the AK4377 Chip, right? If not, can you send link?

[@colddish]

@ it’s the TC08 Pro. This one uses a BES3001-sp chip. This company is the one to watch out for as it supplies Bluetooth, op-amps and dsp to many known chifi companies and that’s one of the reasons why all of a sudden so many cheap TWS flood the market. The sound is smoother and has higher resolution than that from KZ that bundles with the Saga.

[@sniperfromhellblaze]

@@colddish ooh, question. Would it be better to use a balanced cable than a type c dac?

[@colddish]

@ the main concern is that the usb cable must have decently good built-in dsp or at least EQ-able ones like those from Moondrop. I find that the differences between USB and balanced isn’t great with entry level iems so it’s safe to connect USB to iems below, say, $80. I need to pause here to talk a bit about usage of balanced (4.4mm) cables. Iems don’t necessarily sound better with 4.4 over 3.5. It really depends on the iem’s drivability and more importantly, its sound characteristics. For example using 4.4 on a smooth sounding iem can make it sounding more forward and sometimes aggressive. Then we have the many sources and cable types to play with when using 3.5 or 4.4 to match each iem. While EQ-able usb can somewhat correct that, normal cable / source combinations often sound more natural and of course, more fun to find the best match. So back to the Saga, it’s sounds (to my ears) nicer with 3.5 then with 4.4. But in this case I connect it to the USB because the difference isn’t big and I don’t have to lug a dongle along.

[@sniperfromhellblaze]

@@colddish thanks mate! That helps. Thanks for taking the time to help! 😊

[@tacticalsavage]

Video is very helpful, i have KZ Saga bass, CCA Trio and KZ Castor bass, i was trying to adjust my balance, now i dont have to allocate a budget for ZVX Pro, i can go for CCA Hydro or KZ Zenith, trying to finalize my decision.

[@N0THiNG6]

What do u like out of the saga, castor & trio?

[@tobiasdubiak4747]

Of single DD KZs, I have the EDX Pro, D-Fi non-switch and Saga balanced. and my clear favourite is the Saga. But I recently tried several liquid silicone tips and I ended up with my new favourite tip. the EPZ M100 which takes the sound quality to a much higher level and clearly separates the IEMs. The clarity, resolution, immersiveness, stage, bass and treble improve. Basically, everything is much better. None of my normal tips can even compete. Then the EDX Pro is quite muddy and shows that the driver is not so great, and it is VERY bassy. The D-Fi is much better and really pleasant. With normal tips except some wide bore that is decent, it's just very dull and doesn't work at all. But with the EPZ M100, much more balanced. But I would have preferred a more neutral tuning as I find it a bit too V-shaped: A bit too much bass and recessed mids. The Saga balanced is another step up and noticeably cleaner and more resolving with leaner and cleaner bass. Still a bit too much for me, because with these tips it is still quite strong. The stage is also improved. Comparing the Saga balanced to other IEMs, it is way better than the ZS10 Pro 2 on just about everything. The ZSN Pro 2 is almost an improvement to the ZS10 Pro 2 as it sounds significantly cleaner to me, but a bit too V-shaped. Close but because of that I still chose the Saga balanced. I also prefer it to the Vader balanced which I think is too thick in the lower mids and not as resolving. The Hi-res version might be what I should have chosen. The AS10 Pro with the H570 latex tips (to lower the very high treble level that makes it much too bright with normal tips) is also decent but not as resolving because of the tips but the technicalities on some points are better. The PR2 (revised without the dampening tape) has better technical capabilities, but not so much that it takes over for daily use, and I prefer the tonality and cohesiveness of the single DD Saga balanced. I bought the TRN Conch at the same time as the Saga, and it is certainly a nice IEM, but with two serious flaws for me. I can not get a proper seal with any of the included tips. If I place the ear hooks 1-2cm outside of my ears it is quite OK, but when I place them over the ears all the tips feel too small. The EPZ M100 solved that problem, but now the Conch sounds VERY bright even with the least bright nozzle, the red. To get it usable I might add some dampening. As it is, it sounds quite clinical with little warmth. Again, I still prefer the Saga because of its richer and more balanced tonality, but I hear that the Conch has very nice resolution and stage, so my choice might change if I can get the tuning right. I have never been able to get my Salnotes 7Hz Zero to sound anywhere near the hype no matter what cable or tips I use. With the EPZ M100 it helps a lot and the tonality is quite nice, but it also reveals that the resolution isn't that great. That impacts the stage also. All testing is with the iBasso DC04Pro, 4.4 balanced, and I have matched quite decent cables to optimize the sound of each IEM. Cables can make a huge difference, which might be best noticed when the match is clearly wrong! The changes from most stock cables are huge. For the Conch I use the stock cable, not the absolutely best cable for this IEM, but very decent. For the D-Fi and ZN10 Pro 2 I found that the Angelears AE100 tips were slightly better than the EPZ M100. I also tested the Fiio HS20 liquid silicon tip, but the EPZ M100, which is much cheaper was cleaner and more resolving on every IEM, but a bit more treble. The NiceHCK 04, was just a waste of money compared to the other liquid silicon tips. It sounds way worse and costs more. I ordered the Azla Xelastec II but the seller did not ship them. Sad, but they are also significantly more expensive.

[@thiantonio]

D-Fi with switches (UUUD) is still my favorite single DD from KZ.

[@hazi5961]

The Saga Bass Version reminds me a lot of the original EPZ Q1.

[@RKZX2]

I have Castor bass, Dawn bass, Saga bass, ZST, ZSN Pro 2. Plus a have dozen low budget QKZ iems all under $20 & half of them under $10 & they sound fantastic. I have single DDs, hybirds. I want a planer. Looking at Artti T10.

[@akros9333]

@@RKZX2 Artti T10 is excellent as is the PRX and SGOR Luna

[@rotschreck4085]

KZ saga uses the latest drivers... until they do a silent revision, which KZ is notoriously known for.

[@MR.ROBOTVOLTRON]

KZ keeps getting it right. Except its only on theur cheapest sets. I want something more like the Dawn but with a detachable cable and capable driver. Something like a Fat Frequency type bass or Fiio FH3 type bass. Dawn or even their Saga. Thats what i want from one of these companies. In a metal shell and it absolutely rumbles and slays music. But... its still quality in other areas.

[@MariaAudioChick]

Great review as always. They should have stuck to the black and silver theme for Saga bass VS balance and Saga bass should have been tuned like Dawn. I didn't think about marking them and now can barely tell them apart after a/b'ing. Other than the Libras, ZVX and CRA pro, I feel the ogs are good enough, I have everything there. Adding the EDX Lite, yet another EDC Pro. I paid USD 2-8 for each. Average $5 a set + 5-10 each for cables, tips and cases. Absoluteky ridiculous value. TRN next? V10 PRO 2/2 $14 and V90 $23 Pro 2/4-ish. Both are decently built and attractive and are tuned differently. IMHO need filter mods but they sound so good after. To me TRN bass quality is juicier than KZ.

[@anatol1204]

I have Libra balanced ,D Fi, Edx pro,Castor bass , Hydro and 7 Hz Zero 2.In my opinion Kz must make a more Hola-ish tuned iem(s)They have too many iems with the same edgy mid-trembre timber thats why they need warm dac amps.Zero has the better mids of all these.Now i wait the Castor pro because im curious about its new tuning in the upper mids low tremble.The one that stands out though is Hydro, its a beast of an iem but its fiting could be better especially for small ears like mine..I maybe buy the Dawn I miss out this.Thanks Tony 👍🙋

[@tweed0929]

Got KZ Saga bass version this morning. Good. Suitable for metal and rock, i.e. mids are not lost in V shape and you can still enjoy guitars and vocals. Cool "full" drum sound with good distinction between separate notes. Treble is lean, though. Compared to Truthear Gate, Saga bass has stronger sub-bass rumble, but not as energetic and "in your face" as Gate. Gate has more pronounced treble and not as sibilant as Saga bass. All in all, I would call a tie.

[@AronAddams7]

Which of these has better upper mids?

[@tweed0929]

@@AronAddams7 Truthear Gate is noticeably brighter than KZ Saga Bass, though I enjoy female vocals in both of them.

[@AronAddams7]

@@tweed0929 thank you.

[@NKFreak1C]

How kz saga compared to TRN MT5?

[@MariaAudioChick]

I have Orca which the graph indicates is MT5 with switches and I think I prefer the soundstage on Orca. I'm guessing it would apply to MT5. There is something about TRN bass that is more satisfying to me and I feel they have more variance in their look and are smoother generally than KZ. Kz seems to always sound a little bright and all their sets look like the other. Haven't tried dawn though. That being said, many KZ do look and sound really good, it's probably down to personal preference and cost.

[@NKFreak1C]

@MariaAudioChick Thankyou for your input. Which kz set you've tried?

[@MariaAudioChick]

@@NKFreak1C oh man I have so many KZ sets! Just about all the ones he mentioned here. Plus PRX and a ton of ogs and CCA. Any one you have questions on? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy them all for different reasons. Tony is spot on about having a hard time calling something better as a generalization. Really depends on what your flavor is or what flavor you crave at any specific moment.

[@faisalfirdausiinn4708]

@@MariaAudioChick is it worth getting the PRX considering for those who already have PR1 Pro and PR2 itself costs only half of PRX?

[@MariaAudioChick]

@faisalfirdausiinn4708 I don't have either of those so I can take my opinion with a few grains of salt. They sound good but if you're happy with those, probably not, especially if you got the og PR2. And from what I Understand they look pretty similar. Artti T10 goes on sale for so cheap, I think they sound better. Especially with a 350grade filter. Can't remember if you have that one.

[@Funny_Drone]

Hello, Tony, thank you for this video. Kind of interesting to me. But... You've got to do something about your microphone. I'm listening in headphones and it is UNBEARABLE. Those sibilants pierce through my entire brain like a knife. Does it sound good to you? Cheers

[@jamsblast]

Nope, is not the same iem, idk what are you hearing but saying Libra Balanced and Edc pro sounds the same is just not true. Btw, CCA Trio and Vader balanced also, NOT THE SAME iem.

[@housepianist]

Do you have all of those iems you mentioned and have listened to them? If so, explain how they don’t sound the same. Also, he’s giving a generalized profile of how those iems sound the same but he also points out some subtle differences in them.

[@jamsblast]

@housepianist i have all those iems, to explaining the differences i have to make a considerable posting. I know Tony said about the subtle differences, but you can't say to your viewers "oh is the same iem" based on what? Your old ears? The graphs? You know the people like Tony doesn't feel the sibilance in it like a younger person, so the real difference in the iems is not noticed in graphs and old ears, is misleading to others not accepting those limitations and saying to the viewers " is not sibilant to me so you young audiophile go buy that, because is not spicy and the same iem as the others with the same driver"... I think that is unethical.

[@housepianist]

@ Tony was generalizing how many of those IEMs sound the same. I own two of those IEMs - the Saga and the Libra. They both do have the same general drivers and they DO have the same general sound signature. The only difference I hear is that the Saga has a tad more bass but the sound is more in the background. The Libra sounds more or less the same but the sound is much more forward. Personally, I prefer that but that’s just me. I also have the D-Fi which does have a different sound signatiure than those two but it’s not dramatic. Also, I take issue that you are using Tony’s “old ears” as a misleading indicator for his opinion on all the IEMs he reviewed. Real (or perceived) differences are more about how one interprets the sound. Bassy sound, clear midrange, V-shaped, strident treble, blah blah blah. In the end, is it a sound that the listener likes or dislikes? But don’t stereotype between those with “young” ears vs “old” ears. Young ears might not hear sibilance or old ear might be bothered by it. You can’t generalize someone’s age as a means of what they can or can’t hear. In a way, that’s being unethical. So I guess we should trust young-eared reviewers, right? 🙄 In the end, graphs mean nothing. It does not, and will never tell you how something actually sounds. All it does is give you a sense of how the frequency ranges measure. That’s it! I’ve heard IEMs with a high 8k peak which don’t sound strident and moderate 8k peaks that sound strident as hell. And of course you should know that different driver designs and types can affect how frequency ranges can play out. But more importantly, it’s how you tune them that really matters. And bias is inevitable too so whatever Tony thought about these IEMs is simply his assessment of them for that time at that moment. It’s ok if you don’t agree but stop making excuses because of his age or his ears. He fully qualified his opinion on the “sameness” of many of these IEMs often if you would listen. I guess generalities are lost on you. But then if you give a detail analysis on how they all sound different, most of that would be lost on people too. 🤦‍♂️

[@Hijynx87]

Tony, when you work out do you use your iems wired? or from BT hooks? I just imagine wires getting in the way, so I just use tws for activities.

[@MariaAudioChick]

I won't speak for Tony but I think his cable game speaks for itself. I love cables! I have a cheap clip on Bluetooth adapter that let's me use cables and keep most of the sound quality.

[@akros9333]

@@Hijynx87 usually it's tws bit occasionally I used wired.

[@Hijynx87]

@@MariaAudioChick yeah I have bt adapters too, I was thinking about getting a short cable modded from xinhs or something just so there isn’t excess cable dangling. Otherwise I have the old fiio utws5, but those charging pins just suck lol. New version fixed that but they also cost like $150 now! The og was $129.

[@MariaAudioChick]

@Hijynx87 have you tried using a cable wrap and winding the cable up. If you don't like cables I could see how this isn't optimal. I see cables kind of like jewelry so I work with them lol. I. Bought the wireless peices for a friend but it never came so I can't add anything there.

[@MariaAudioChick]

@@Hijynx87 BTW, I have Galaxy buds pro that I never use. They don't like to stay in my ears.

[@sniperfromhellblaze]

1st 😍

[@okay1904]

While this is an excellent comparison, of KZ IEM's, here is my experience. I own the EDC Pro, which is sort of OK, until one compares it to the 7Hz Zero 2, and no matter how much I tried to prefer the EDC Pro, I had to accept, the 7Hz Zero 2 is simply a better more balanced product, and less fatiguing. I can listen to the EDC Pro, if I had nothing else, but for a little bit more money, when on sale, the Zero 2 is about the minimum quality that is worth bothering with. In spite of all the hope, once again, KZ is not quite up there, in absolute quality. I own the EDC Pro, CCA CRA (2023 revision), ZVX and the Polaris. It is difficult to justify sending any more money KZ's way, cos their IEM's are not "balanced". Too hot and spicy, and fatiguing. And their bass does not do sub bass below 70hz very well. Not quite as authoritative and balanced as what the Zero 2 delivers. I really did not like the Zero 2 at first, but this video led me to carry out an extensive review of all my IEM's and the Zero 2 came tops. Huge credit to Crinacle and 7hz.

[@MR.ROBOTVOLTRON]

And cheap 😂