Property, Freedom and Society | Hans-Hermann Hoppe

[@snakeriverhombre77]

This guy wrote one of the best books I've ever read in his book "Democracy the God that failed"!!!

[@vinicius3938]

He mentioned us 😍 The free market will free individuals in Brazil

[@RabbitConfirmed]

Nice we even have brothers in Brazil! Greetings from Switzerland!

[@mikehoot3978]

@@RabbitConfirmed Switzerland, what a great country. I would love to live there, I'm from South America but I have Italian citizenship, maybe I will emigrate one day. It's very difficult to get a work permit?

[@d68st90]

@@mikehoot3978 as HHH mentioned, go to the German side of Switzerland lol

[@mikehoot3978]

@@d68st90 I prefer the Italian canton, I don't know any German. xD

[@soffren]

Can't wait for the international union of Libertarians. Freedom for all in our generation!

[@Liberty-rn4wy]

100% correct about Germany, a country I lived in. Centralized Germany gave us two world wars. Decentralized Germany gave us great culture and art and science. Nietzsche had a great line: "The state is the coldest of cold monsters and from its mouth comes this lie - 'I am the people'."

[@somercet1]

"A free trade zone only requires two sentences, 'whatever you want to ship out, you ship out, whatever you want to import, you can import.'" Thank you Mr Hoppe. Interesting that Europe is still free of free trade.

[@zbyszanna]

Btw. wasn't it Marx who said that democracy is the road to socialism? I think it was him.

[@mikehoot3978]

I don't know if Marx said that literally, but post-Marxists like Laclau do. The subtitle of his most famous book "Hegemony and Socialist Strategy" is "towards a radical democratic politics.

[@donstacy7012]

The "lost opportunity" of East Germany's reunification with West Germany also applies to the fantasized mergers of North Korea and South Korea and Taiwan and China.

[@alenpaul2523]

😂😂😂😂

[@Liberty-rn4wy]

I had the same exact experience in 1986 in East Germany with having to exchange money but nothing to buy but Marxist books. It was actually quite comical. I remember one book said environmentalism is a bourgeois illusion. And one book was called something like Abraham Lincoln and the US Communist Party. Books like that.

[@ryan.1990]

Environmentalism is a bourgeois BS though, look how the elites all get in their private jets to lecture us

[@anthonyrich4104]

I would love to see covers of those books? Is that possible? Especially the first one you mentioned

[@Liberty-rn4wy]

@@anthonyrich4104 It was so long ago. I can't remember.

[@zbyszanna]

I agree that Eastern Europeans were robbed blindly and the process which was used was called privatization (and it was a privatization of a sort, but had nothing to do with what market economists would advise). The problem is after some reforms used by the establishment to steal as much as possible, the window of free market was shut and is being sealed even tightly with every day and every new "reform".

[@Konzon]

This was delightful

[@Youtube_Stole_My_Handle_Too]

In a mere 75 seconds into the interview, he accomplishes the feat of articulating the truth, even when the subject matter is challenging and deeply personal. From that moment onward, we know there will be no tolerance for triviality or endeavors to inadequately rationalize facts. I already like this man. Strangely enough, I have always jumped over him whenever his name has come up during my forty years of being an anarcho-capitalist. I became one completely all by my own from an intuition there was something severely wrong with the world.

[@Konzon]

Zamn

[@GaryOlson-q7f]

Great interview! Thank you so much!!

[@zbyszanna]

"Listen lad, if the Nobel Price perpetually awarded economic thought worked, there would be no crises." - this is exactly what people from Misesian circles been saying for ages. Misesians (free market economists) have almost nothing in common with those interventionists who usually receive the Prize of Central Bank of Sweden (better known as Nobel Prize in Economics). And yes, Misesians say it is exactly because of their failed interventionist policies we have constant crisises..

[@josie4065]

One day I hope to meet this Legend.

[@Pepestock]

Hoppe to meet

[@schellargschichta1638]

Hans I love you!!!!

[@KatsKettlebellDojo]

Currently reading Democracy: The God that Failed. It's one of the best books I've ever read in my life, totally blowing my mind, can't put it down.

[@anthonyrich4104]

I read it a number of yrs ago, it's next on my list to read. I feel like I remember it quite well, it had a lasting and profound impression, but I am so looking forward to re reading it. Currently about to finish Human Action, first full read through, I have only read parts of it before.

[@zbyszanna]

If you understand capitalism as a free market capitalism, then there is no way it could have failed, because there wasn't any in the first place. What we have today (and had for a long time now) is a fascism light. Seriously you cannot call a market free if it has almost 70000 pages of regulations (and central banking). Democracy is the worst system, when you want to have a free market. There is a book by Hoppe called "Democracy: a god that failed" which sheds more light onto it.

[@anthonyrich4104]

Spot on take sir, in fact central banking was an idea marx himself supported and called for as necessary to create a socialist state.

[@Krifko]

Tucker dresses like he is from the 1920's.

[@MatthewC137]

or Broadway

[@maximum7788]

Hans ich liebe dich!

[@zbyszanna]

Cont2: Austrians base their approach on 3 assumptions: a) humans act b) they have their ends (goals) c) they use means to reach their ends (they choose best means possible - at least in their opinion).

[@zbyszanna]

Cont 2: them pretty interesting. I think the best book to start is "Economy in one lesson" by Henry Hazzlit. Also there is "Man, Economy and the State" by M. Rothbard or "Human Action" by Mises (I haven't read it yet, but I've heard it is really good). You will see where Austrians come from and you will see your arguments are really not a critique of an Austrian way, but rather of the neoliberals.

[@josealfredoguerrerobautist4812]

I attended Mises University back in 1991 at Stanford University. Great lectures. He's awesome.

[@Jaluzaga]

This was wonderful!

[@zbyszanna]

I said exactly what Hayek said. On the free market it is not necessary for any single entrepreneur to have complete knowledge of the market for the markets to work. Quite contrary, each entrepreneur only needs a handful of prices in order to be able to work efficiently. More to say, it is impossible for any single actor to posses such knowledge (even disregarding the enormous costs of gathering such data, parts of it will never be available to anyone but the final consumer).

[@zbyszanna]

Everytime you see IMF, World Bank and US Treasury, you might be sure there is nothing Austrian about it. Yes, they are talking about free markets but at the same time they give monopoly on money to the central bank, create this central bank and introduce mandatory cartelisation coupled with fractional reserve. Your point would be valid, if there was no central bank involved in any way. If there is, there is just a lot of talk and no walk. TBC

[@Goodatconnect4]

Hoppe references Eigentum, Anarchie und Staat everywhere. Does anyone know of any attempts in translating the book?

[@zalida100]

Excellent stuff - thanks

[@aerdil]

Nothing is more conducive to proper integration into the hegemonic ideologico-political community than a ‘radical’ past in which one lived one’s wildest dreams.

[@SaulOhio]

In fact, markets are the way an economy copes with a world where it is impossible to obtain perfect knowledge. Your "planning" would destroy that in favor of your abstract ideal, which turns out to be much worse when put into practice.

[@CurtHowland]

There is huge pressure that only "left" is against the status quo.

[@4lifejackhammer]

The role of government policies was to try and make consumers purchase goods from a capital structure that the consumers displayed their disfavor of through the stock market crash. And the boom following WWII occurred after a dramatic reduction of government spending. Most New Deal and Wartime spending was cut, and the programs initiated by the government immediately following the war was low by comparison. Even the higher taxes was less burdensome than the effect of new deal/ war spending.

[@tarstarkusz]

Jeffrey Tucker is the most unserious person ever.

[@Baldy4495]

Great chat.

[@TheLegalImmigrant05]

@richardcadbury To be fair, let's quote language preceding this text: "...in a covenant concluded among proprietors and community tenants for the purpose of protecting their private property, …no one is permitted to advocate ideas contrary to the very purpose of the covenant ... such as democracy and communism.... Likewise, in a covenant founded for the purpose of protecting family and kin, there can be no tolerance toward those habitually promoting lifestyles incompatible with this goal."

[@zbyszanna]

Unfortunately I've never said anything like this. I said a) Austrians also say these prizes are worthless and b) policies proposed by those who received those prizes are the reason for constant crisises. I've never said Austrians are right because Keynsians are wrong, so if anyones logic is flawed it would be yours. Austrian school of economics comes from the human action and from this infers laws of economy. It perceives economy as a study of human action and not an empirical science. TBC

[@praxseb4317]

U still Austrian?

[@zbyszanna]

Once again, you are talking about neoliberals, with which Austrians have very little to do. Austrians reach to classical liberal thinkers and are in opposition to the type of thinking represented by neoliberals. IMF, WB are completely against Austrian doctrine. They were not created to battle Marx (although they did criticize socialism a lot, for example Mises talking about impossibility of economic calculus in socialist economies), but their way of thinking of economy goes way back in history.

[@zbyszanna]

This normal overproduction (or underproduction) is not really a problem, because overproduction is a wasted opportunity and incurs costs to an entrepreneur, so he will do everything to alleviate this problem. The real problem with overproduction comes to play only when there is a state intervention (like expansion of credit, subsidies and so on), which disrupt normal market discovery processes (price system). Then we have problems with overproduction, but it is not inherent to the markets.

[@TheEmperorsChampion964]

Former leftists make the best libertarian/ free market advocates

[@anthonyrich4104]

As a former teenage socialist myself, I completely agree, it seems a lot of libertarians, and Austrian school ppl all started from a somewhat left position, then we learned economics, so we firmly shift away from Marxism, socialism. Also the focus on individual rights, which then extends to individual property rights, etc.

[@zbyszanna]

As for unfulfilled needs. Some needs will go unfulfilled, there will never be a heaven on Earth. But it is not the point. Entrepreneurship is a talent of finding out what needs are not yet fulfilled and being able to organize capital in such a way, that those needs are indeed fulfilled. This is a basis of market action. You cannot make profit of a need, which is currently fulfilled, the only way is to find those not yet fulfilled. One of the tools is a market research, other is intuition etc.

[@reapfreak]

I laughed hysterically when Hoppe said he used to be a leftist.

[@metal87power]

Why? A communism/socialism is indeed a childlish dream. Prolonged until your adultness becomes mind disability. Me for example - I used to be a communist when I was 13 years old. :D

[@anthonyrich4104]

I understand that, I feel like a lot of Austrian school, libertarian capitalist types start off somewhat from the left, we just learn economics, in part from reading and understanding marx, proudhon, other socialist thinkers etc. I did for sure laugh that he attended the Frankfurt school, that was wildly hilarious to me.

[@tobiastobias2419]

i have a question. What is the theory of land, ancaps use ? When do you own land? How do you own land ?

[@LeonardoGuilherme92]

We use John Locke's theory. A property comes into existence when one uses its labor to create such property with the scarce raw materials available in the world. If you built a house on an unoccupied land, certainly it would be yours by natural right. When one put up fences on an unoccupied land and start growing plants, vegetables and raise animals, this land is his/hers. The difference with the Marxists is that they think that if an employee works on this land, it is therefore also his/hers, and nothing could be further from truth because the one who started investing on this land took more risks and for a longer time than the employee. Besides, the payment the employee is given purchases his labor and any right he supposedly could have on the land. There are works of Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk, one of the Austrian school authors, regarding this subject.

[@zbyszanna]

The definition of capitalism is I believe, the private ownership of means of production. Of course you are right in your premise, that capitalism is a wider term than free market capitalism and that some capital is reinvested over and over again in order to make the production more efficient. I don't see you point though. Could you elaborate a little?

[@zbyszanna]

Maybe it is so in theory but in practice it looked quite different. Those at the bottom had no say whatsoever about what those at the top did and what they decided.

[@anthonyrich4104]

Did those at the bottom ever have say anywhere ever? Anymore than they do in western capitalist societies?

[@IvanTheHeathen]

@orthzar Triple H!! LOL!! I LOVE IT!!! Motorhead should play every time Hans comes in to give a speech!

[@BinanceUSD]

Brilliant

[@zbyszanna]

You make an interesting point. Can you point me to a source that would elaborate more on this approach (in opposition to my definition)? As for slavery and feudalism, means of production don't include humans and their work (that would be factors of production), so my definition wouldn't include those. I could say they merely included some aspects of capitalistic system.

[@SaulOhio]

You are comparing the flaws of the system as it is, with your own ideal system, which is completely abstract. Any system involving human beings will be imperfect. Your planned economy would be much worse, no matter how perfect it may look (to you, almost nobody else) information would be even more limited in a government planned economy. Overproduction and clearances are MUCH better, especially for the consumers, than shortages you get in planned economies. Look at Venezuela. Shortages.

[@Mona57216]

Quien no fue de izquierda en su juventud no sabria como se debe ser libertario en la madures

[@grraadd]

well, they are among us - they teach our children, they deliver "information", they oversee finances and banking system... They will die of starvation after they'll rob last bread slice from us :-(

[@FlashVirus]

Sounds good to me.

[@cleopatra125]

"And za selection of my university teachers obviously had something to do with why I was a lefty" 😂🤣

[@zbyszanna]

In free market economy only those willing to take the risk suffer. The impact of such risky behavior is seriously limited which cannot be said about mass malivestments procured by states. The basic flaw of any (current) state is private-public central banking cartel joined with monopoly on money creating massive bubbles and making loses public (while retaining private profits). There always will be the risk, the key is not to include in it people who don't want to take it.

[@4lifejackhammer]

you meant "pulled" the economy out of a depression. And it did not; it was the accumulated savings, protected from taxation during the second world war, that allowed for the boom in Private Product Remaining and the economic boom of the late 40's even as "real" GDP fell.

[@mattlm64]

@PanzerDivisionBOM He mentioned "covenant" property but switched to "society".... Also seems to be against homosexuals somewhat. I'm sure it's been exaggerated though.

[@zbyszanna]

It was very short thanks to market forces being let by government to reallocate capital and focus on real investments as opposed to malinvestment resulting from disinformation created by the state. If you suppress prices (including interest rates) signals, you incentivise entrepreneurs to make bad decisions, because their judgment of the market is skewed. You cannot expect people to make good decision if you lie to them and this is nothing different.

[@zbyszanna]

No, it has very little to do with democracy itself. Yes, democracy will promote such reckless behavior but it is not a part of democracy per se. Democracy is a form of a government. What this government does is another matter. And I don't agree about democracy fitting capitalism. If you are interested on a different take on this subject, I recommend you a book by Hans Hermann Hoppe called "Democracy: a god that failed". I've just finished it and I think it is very interesting.

[@metal87power]

None government fits humanity in general. :)

[@peterrossi3349]

Thinking to pieces

[@levkoyanovski1463]

Кто после лекции со Световым?

[@AntonySammeroff]

2.10 - whose criticism of Marx did he ecounter?

[@jeannuel]

+Enrich Your Life I know that so much people tell this but: Read his book, The Capital. Just by reading him you see having envy and wanting power to control the ones who have wealth by increasing taxes. Also look for the 10 commandments of the communist manifesto (another book of Marx). Ah, and foremost: The economic calculation problem in the Socialist Commonwealth. We did see this with Germany, URSS, Cuba, Venezuela... the theory is wrong, so in practice theres no surprise.

[@jeannuel]

+Enrich Your Life As Mises said: Read everything. Read Marx, Engels, Hitler... Rothbard, Ayn Rand, Carl Menger, Hayek, Hazlitt... Hoppe, Tucker, etc.

[@AntonySammeroff]

he was referring to Bohm-Bawerk by the way, the book is called Karl Marx and the Close of His System (1896) I found out later

[@zbyszanna]

And who paid it back? Anything government spends must in the end be taken from tax payers. If he decided on what to spend, how much and when, then he took this decision from people, and so made them worse off. If you don't let people spend according to their own value judgments, you destroy wealth. And why was economy devastated? Doesn't it have anything to do with similar policies of Hoover and dramatic decisions made by the FED? Yes it does.

[@zbyszanna]

You ignore the problem with a capital being heterogeneous. If you stimulate one branch of the economy, you are at the same time transferring capital from other branches of economy, which were originally chosen by consumers, and so you make everyone poorer. Aggregate demand of 100$ consisting of 80$ in shoes and 20$ in toothpaste is something completely different than 20$ in shoes and 80$ i toothpaste. But you cannot see this from an aggregate level. From an aggregate level all you have is 100$.

[@scott96999]

No matter which school of libertarianism you come from I think we can all agree that Jeff Tucker's bowtie should be illegal.

[@Wesker1982]

@richardcadbury google: "Hoppe on Covenant Communities and Advocates of Alternative Lifestyles"

[@zbyszanna]

So have a nice day then.

[@mstipich1]

@AugustusOctavianus Whats BAUS, ffs ?

[@ryan.1990]

Love this guy Hate his accent

[@jakobeckert]

Herr Hoppe, Ich Komme zu der land! wenn?

[@system_xcrash6478]

Morgen Abend 18:30 Uhr!

[@p.ch.1615]

ЛЮСТРАЦИИ ЛЮСТРАЦИИ ЛЮСТРАЦИИ (russian libertarian meme)

[@chocolateLlerma]

Quick question: who did Greece cry to about getting a bailout? Answer: Ms. Merkel. Why? Because Germany's economy is the strongest out of all the Eurozone nations.

[@Torgo1969]

Go Hoppe! Go Germany! The guilt trip is over, so feel free to ditch the Euro and your spendthrift neighbors. Link up with the serious people like Putin in Russia!

[@zbyszanna]

Cont1: ad 1) Austrians say that market is a dynamic self regulating system, but they don't say it is in equilibrium; ad 2, 3, 4) they don't say anything like this. I see you don't know Austrian approach very well, perhaps it is why you don't agree with it? I would recommend you to learn something about it, I think you might find it interesting. TBC

[@metal87power]

indeed. what differentiates Austrians from other economic schools is their understanding of equilibrium, so whereas for Austrians that term is more or less an idea of pure thought for others is an achievable and possible goal, but in fact the equilibrium cannot be achieved in the real, flexible, dynamic world.

[@zbyszanna]

Cont 1: I know situation in Poland and Russia best, so I can say something about. It had very little to do with free markets and a lot to do with cronism and central planning. Please, read about Leszek Balcerowicz frozen dollar exchange rate, freezing resource prices in Russia, central banking, interest rates manipulation, self enfranchisement, stimulus loans and so on. Nothing good, nothing Austrian. I seriously encourage you to study Austrians at least a little, I think you might find TBC

[@Goodatconnect4]

Raaaahhhk... (Homer Simpson).

[@JOHNSMITH-ve3rq]

Encountered whose criticism of Marx???

[@kummando64]

uhahuahuahuahuahuaahu Naomi Klein ? come on...

[@zbyszanna]

What is full information? Can there be more information than all people on the market posses themselves? If no, then it is obvious that market contains full information, but none of the actors possesses it, so no central planning is possible and only decentralized, market decisions can be economical. And no one will never have fully free choice, because we live in a world of scarcity. I don't see where do you get your remaining points, they are nowhere near the Austrian school of economics.

[@zbyszanna]

Nope, full knowledge is not necessary for a free market to work. The opposite is true. Any entrepreneur must only control a subset of necessary information related to his subject. This makes market economy possible at all, because getting full information is impossible. People can say they want something, but until they act and make a choice (to get something means not to get something else), we know nothing. No info on products that were not there? Marker research and entrepreneurship.

[@getredytagetredy]

Who cares what this guy thinks....Its what you think ...not him....

[@degenmaximilian5575]

I hate to see mommy and daddy fighting

[@zbyszanna]

Also I urge you to actually read something about Austrians, because your allegations were answered for like 1000 time already. Also you create some strawman arguments and criticize Austrians for things they never said or preach.

[@kummando64]

Welfare for the poor and rich... bailout... hundreds and thousands of work laws, warfare... thati s the "mises economic model "? Have you ever read a word of mises ? are you crazy, dude ?

[@thefakenewsnetwork8072]

Long live democratic socialism and freedom

[@picardas1638]

freedom is incompatible with socialism

[@Mashwag]

Long live wrong and right