Dragon Ball's Godly Identity Crisis - Dragon Ball Dissection: The Majin Boo Arc Part 26!

[@MistareFusion]

As you may or may not know, the powers that be have taken issue with my using Dragon Ball music in the opening. I suppose that's certainly their right. As a result, I have made the difficult choice to replace the opening music in most of The Boo Arc videos with a new, KZbin-friendly piece. I hope you like it. As a compromise, I have retained the original music in a few select Boo Arc videos scattered across the arc. For those who miss the original, follow this link to the opening as I uploaded it in 2020. Thanks so much for your support! kzbin.info/www/bejne/gH-9lYmQfMSfmK8

[@MistareFusion]

@Rorschach I'm afraid this is a truth I do not know. I take great pains to thank and give credit to people who help me on these videos. Heck, I even gave a credit sequence thank you to a person who made a hate video about me because, within all of that unpleasantness, he did actually provide one factual correction, which I followed up on. But in regards to the realm of media criticism and opinions, it is possible for people to have the same opinions independently of each other. I can almost guarantee that neither you nor I was the first person to complain that Gohan died in an unsatisfactory manner. It's definitely something I've thought for many years. I do not even have any memory of your comments. I'm sorry, but thinking that Gohan died in a lame way or that Fusion Dance is a narrative stall are not unique opinions in and of themselves. If you are that concerned that I am being influenced by your comments, you're not going to hurt my feelings if you don't want to leave them anymore. In fact, maybe it'll be better for the both of us if you don't. That way, your insights will be safe from interlopers, and I won't be accused of having the same opinion as someone else.

[@kylefields3951]

@Rorschach I think you're really reaching here. Dragon Ball has a bunch of interesting storytelling decisions in the latter half of the source material in comparison to the first half. ie: (The start and up until Gohan is introduced.) From then on, more and more plot beats and scenarios are reused. The plot is never outright the same of course, because context. I'm definitely not saying you're lying, and that you couldn't have pointed out something with your own unique thoughts, criticisms, and analysis of Dragon Ball, and that Lance also happened to point it out the video, and/or videos after you commented. But to bold-face claim that you know, for sure, that someone else with their own sentience and clear passion for analysis was *Stealing* yours, is eyebrow raising. It's criticism. Even if he was, it's criticism. Criticism isn't something you can realistically police in that way. Nor should you want to. That's so strange that *You* want credit for criticism. Lance has so many unique, and fully developed criticisms of the series separate from yours, I really think you're reaching here. Coincidences happen all the time.

[@YossarianVanDriver]

This must bizarrely make Battle of Gods adding even more gods actually look quite favourable by comparison, because it's not only very clear about what they do, it makes what the *Kaioshin* do more clear retroactively.

[@JazzyWaffles]

My thought exactly! It's funny that it took Toriyama nearly 20 years to make the Kaioshin have a purpose.

[@snuffysam]

Dragon Ball Super is WAAAAY more clear on what each deity is supposed to be doing than DBZ, especially the Buu saga. We know what the angels do, we see Zamasu’s training, and while I find Zeno’s character to be grating I at least get the point with him.

[@louisvictor3473]

Does it really? That they are collectively supposed to guide things is already implied by the idea that they're some sort of deity. It doesn't distinguishes any of the tiers or add anything really new, it just spells the presumed job of the kaioshin out instead of imply it.

[@YossarianVanDriver]

@@louisvictor3473 It does, yes, it specifies that they're the gods who /create/ worlds, as the opposite to the gods who destroy them

[@louisvictor3473]

@@YossarianVanDriver Wow, totally didn't have that implied in them all being called "gods" at all! And it totally clarified the actual point of confusion, what is the purpose of all the separate ranks of kaio's in universe and how it matters to the story, right? RIGHT? Oh, that is right... the only thing it added was "you know that thing you expect "gods" to do? Yep, they collectively somehow someway somewhen do that, and it doesn't really impact any plot at all". Soooo illuminating indeed...........

[@CornerstoneArts22]

Always found the “Saiyans never fight together” shtick weird as a kid. The opening of the Saiyan arc is literally Goku agreeing to fight alongside his worst enemy. And then an arc later, Vegeta willingly teams up with the Z fighters to face Frieza and the Ginyu’s. It’s almost like Super Saiyan created such power creep, they had to fundamentally change the character’s so they wouldn’t be too OP

[@spartanq7781]

That still doesn't make any sense because the series has to gradually up the stakes and power of the villains so that is s moot reasoning.

[@CornerstoneArts22]

@@spartanq7781 It happens because Toriyama has a tendency to write several characters in the same arc as “the big hero” and give them a power up that ultimately goes nowhere and leaves the hero’s way overpowered. Super Saiyan is simply the turning point bc its when useless power ups become a major thing

[@Irrelevant402]

Reminds me why I dislike "Dragon Team" over Z Fighters. Why? Well one not dragons. More importantly two: apparently team means "stand around and watch one guy fight another guy and do little and keep saying 'uh they're fast'" Saiyan arc was justified Budokais justified even with Piccolo Jr because Goku wanted to keep to the rules. The less people watching the big final fight the better so one more thing I like about the Kid Buu fight

[@daymianhogue1634]

Also don't forget the premise behind the Saiyan arc was Raditz was literally like "Hey, we're planning to fight a strong world soon, so we need your help" ... Implying himself, Vegeta, AND Nappa agreed they needed help and had no qualms... even asking a literal stranger for help.

[@Irrelevant402]

@@daymianhogue1634 Granted Raditz' phrasing was very 'this one planet is giving us trouble and MAYBE with even a runt like you that could sway it our way...' Earth's Champions: Can fly and blowing up a city block drains Piccolo while Goku can shoot a Kamehameha out of his feet. Raditz: Easily trounces Earth's champions without a sweat until Gohan got angry and Goku desperate. Then we meet the other two and... Nappa: Blows up a whole city with a flick of his hand. Vegeta: can blow up a planet. ...And apparently that runt Saiyan was needed to sway their side to victory? I know I know it's Toriyama but I remember re-reading that a few years ago and totally forgetting about that.

[@adamnapolitano432]

Honestly, all Toriyama had to do was throw in some short explanation like: "The original Grand Supreme Kai and 4 Cardinal Supreme Kais used to fill the same rolls as the normal Grand Kai and his 4 Kais, but then Buu attacked, all except Shin were killed or absorbed, so as a result Shin chose lesser Kais to be the new cardinal kais and Grand kai while he focused on Buu staying sealed away." But no, even that was too complicated for Toriyama to come up with.

[@cumdepositor]

this is gonna be my headcannon for now

[@jaybee27D]

That was already my headcannon, I kind of thought that was the implication. I just left a longer comment where I worded that idea much more poorly lol

[@Jose-se9pu]

Toriyama's brain left the series a loooong time ago.

[@louisvictor3473]

It is not that it was too complicated for Toriyama to come up, he would need to first need to care about the issue first, to then possibly try and fail to address it competently - nah, he just made new shite up with no care for the old in the first place.

[@MetaDash]

damn, I like this explanation. Simple.

[@LSMMIKE]

Congratulations on 10 years. I’m glad to still be watching and look forward to seeing you complete this arc and then whatever you do next.

[@marcus7984]

Yo Mike!

[@MistareFusion]

Thanks so incredibly much!!!

[@kainthedragoon8081]

I hope you go into Super....god knows that needs a Tear down

[@Ando1428]

wow i guess super fixed the god problem then. if kaioshins are simply gods of creation then each has a job of making planets in that quadrant raising planets till a god can be listed into said planet then moving on.

[@razkable]

@@MistareFusion gt did give us consequences like elder kai said for using the balls too much

[@sumeracarnatia6997]

“Master Roshi is based on God.” What an amazing out of context sentence that could be. 🤣🤣🤣

[@dblibruary]

Apparently he technically was a God based on the Dr Slump universe am not sure which anime episode he is in though...

[@asherzerbib3461]

They both were voiced by Kouhei Miyauchi back in the day so Toei got it.

[@PowerPackers90]

I, as a kid was always wondering why both DBZ and Yu Yu Hakusho had a verison of Yemma. So when I found out about his place in Japanese mythology and religion. I found it interesting enough to want to learn more about Japanese culture than just the Pop Culture.

[@TheWings34]

Haha I'm glad someone else had this experience. I was convinced as a kid that this implied that DBZ and YuYu took place in the same universe and couldn't wait for the crossover!

[@kinggoldark3853]

Happy 10th anniversary! One item you didn’t mention here, but hope you may be saving for next time, is this: before the Elder Kaioshin departs to the tall-grass planet, he mentions that the Kaioshin Realm “won’t break so easily.” It may be the first time the series acknowledges that in terms of planet-destroying, not only are planet-busting attacks not created equal, but planets themselves are not created equal. Perhaps an answer to the question of why a planet-killer like Pure Boo can fight all-out in this segment of the arc.

[@jacobwilliams1223]

All they needed to do was have Kid Buu blow up the earrings. He already used Instant Transmission by surprise, so have him show up and blast the earrings so they couldn't use them. It removes that element to preserve tension but doesn't make Goku/Vegeta come off as uncaring jackasses.

[@Ineedgames]

Also makes Buu still seem intelligent in his new form.

[@spartanq7781]

@@Ineedgames Any form of Boo would know to "yea I really should prevent them from merging again. Since I don't want to die" Why Toriyama didn't think of that is beyond that.

[@Guitarnetter]

Happy 10th anniversary! No better way to celebrate than a good ol' Godly rant :P

[@danielquinlan2457]

Yeah, I've never understood what the point of having a North Kaio _and_ a North Kaioshin was. The only thing that comes to mind is that the system of Kaio below the Kaioshin was only established to pick up the slack after four out of the five Kaioshin were killed or absorbed by Majin Boo. On a separate note, I _am_ enjoying the book. One fun things about it is seeing how Toriyama's art has changed since he started drawing manga, though it's also fun to see how many of the same tropes, archetypes, and gags in Dragon Ball he's used in his older works. Also, there's no denying it, Mr. Ho is blatantly a Yamcha clone. Toriyama's anecdotes in between stories are as funny as ever (the one about him entering a 45 page contest, throwing what he called shipshod manga together, and being convinced there was some kind of mistake when they announced him the winner comes to mind), though I am surpassed at how many of his stories were deemed duds.

[@succubastard1019]

Pheraps, if we take for granted Toriyama's DB Universe Model, where the Kaioshin realm is Physically rotating around the rest of the cosmos, maybe they manage things in the quadrants of that sphere instead. Still pretty redundant though.

[@EmeralBookwise]

That's pretty much exactly how I think of it, especially with how guide books establish that the kaio and kaoshin are both of a singular race born of divine fruits, the latter being born from exceedingly rare golden fruits. How the system is supposed to work is four kaioshin govern the four cardinal directions, and a fifth governs over them. Because of Majin Buu, however, four of them were killed off, leaving behind only the seeming youngest and least experienced who. The lesser kaio still venerate him as a "true" god above themselves, but have otherwise taken it upon themselves to fill the void. Ostensibly this still leaves the grand-kaio redundant, but that might be less a consequence of anything Toriyama did specifically and instead more a consequence of the concurrently running anime. The grand-kaoi only ever actually appears in anime exclusive filler. He gets name checked in the manga, but seemingly only to not overtly contradict the anime. It's sorta like the "difference" between Gogeta and Vegito. They both serve the exact same role and should probably have just been the same character all along, but Toriyama seems to have been compelled, either out of artistic hubris or legal technicality, to create his own "distinct" and separate version.

[@asa-nichollindsay2951]

Daniel, you've got one hell of a sense of humor

[@WolfXGamerful]

Small thing, but you might want to add a space between the underscores and "a" for the italics.

[@kylefields3951]

I personally think that: The Once Brilliant Scientist Disgraced! Bardock's Artificial Moon Research Defunded!!! is way funnier in concept but there's no denying that yours matched the strange naming scheme of the original japanese titles of the movies way better. Putting Z Warrior in front of Son Goku was the winning move I think. Well played, Daniel.

[@RoninCatholic]

"That'd be like if every worker had a manager." Well, at one point Disney's animation department had TWO managers per animator. Yes, really. Management and bureaucratic systems tend to be self-expanding, absent pressures to trim them down.

[@brandonlyon730]

13:00 actually this is somewhat of misconception, in the original Persephone myth it was actually how summer or the dry season comes about. Greece doesn’t have winters like they do in northern Europe or North America, in a Mediterranean climate winter isn’t that cold and you can even grow crops at that time. Summer in Greece on the other hand can be quite harsh being unbearably hot (especially without the invention of the air conditioner) and tends to not rain often, making it harder to grow crops. The myth has been adjusted in translation as people in places like Northern Europe would find a non-cold winter to be laughable.

[@Nick_The_Greek21]

Indeed

[@willowbarrelmaker8269]

Also kind of a misconception because, in the oldest version of the myth we have, it’s actually a little bit unclear why she hast to stay in Hades half the time. It probably has something to do with the pomegranate seeds, but that particular page is missing, so it’s tough to tell.

[@justdobber]

8:00 notice how toriyama accidentally drew the ssj3 hair without the bang and with vegetas widow peak

[@paoloquintili7186]

You know what would have be the perfect reason to defuse Vegeku(my dub called him this way ),the fact that Vegeta is dead and fusion cannot fuse someone who is alive and someone who is dead only alive with alive and dead with dead. The only reason that it was allowed was that Vegeta had a free day on earth that made him kinda alive. And vegeku defuses because he used so much power that made Vegeta's time on earth run out super fast.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

Anyone else find it creepy how Goku BARELY grieves over losing his ENTIRE family AND Earth to Buu? Compare it to all the other times a villain killed someone Goku cared about, typically he'd fly into a murderous rage. Now Goku has lost EVERYONE he ever cared about... ...And he's psyched to fight Buu? Where's the rage? The grief? The pathos?

[@kaihedgie1747]

Like I said before, people think this attitude from Goku is exclusive to Super when it was right here

[@PlanetZoidstar]

@@kaihedgie1747 That seems to be what happens when Toriyama has more creative control over the writing (or when Toyotoro is trying to copy his writing style). The Buu Saga has long been the most polarising saga of DBZ, since Goku seemed to flip flop ALOT on how intelligent and responsible he was. Super gets alot of hate because Goku regressed heavily from DBZ. He would occasionally become Dumbass Goku in DBZ, but Super made Dumbass Goku is dominant personality trait.

[@nicholassims9837]

Well throening an angry future wont bring them back

[@PlanetZoidstar]

@@nicholassims9837 Still it's VERY out of character for Goku to get over their deaths so quickly. He was VERY worked up right before they fused over everyone Super Buu had absorbed, but here it's like he doesn't even care.

[@spritvio639]

I guess he thought of Namek? Idk that is weird.

[@KibblezanBitz]

To get around using that second set of Potara just have Kibitoshin destroy his pair. "You're lying old Shin, there's gotta be a way to undo this!" then he breaks them and nothing happens and Old Shin is like "told ya." Then have Goku suggest fusing again but "yours were the last ones."

[@mappingmapping95]

4:25 Loved how GT built off the shadow dragon concept from this scene

[@DrFunk98]

I think it would have been funny if the Kaio's exist for the reason of replacing the kaioshin's. As they'd been mostly wiped out by Boo. I think it'd also make them more interesting, to imagine these are the old gods. Everyone thought they were dead, and yet, here they are. Still doing stuff. Still thinking they have this responsibility to the world. Also happy anniversary!

[@tarnw3301]

I like this idea.

[@Pinkfloyd0729]

I wish we’d gotten more of an opportunity to see Kaioshin in action, maybe give him a Trunks moment to strut his stuff and let him be the one to dispatch Pui Pui or some thing. Just something to show off what he can do. Semi-related, but it really annoyed me in the Super manga when Zamasu summoned the block of Kachin to attack with. Like, that makes it seem like rather than Kaioshin having the ability to conjur whatever material he likes, however he wishes to, he just happens to have the ability to summon blocks of this specific metal.

[@Jose-se9pu]

Gohan surviving all his fights during over half the story, him saving the universe from Cell, being the main character of this arc at the start...and he dies as collateral damage shown in one panel when he is unconcious next to Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks...wow...WOW.

[@kaihedgie1747]

And people defend this :U

[@spritvio639]

The sad thing for Piccolo, Goten and Trunks is, it's all downhill from here. Espcially Piccolo. Dude gets destroyed by Chopsticks, by 1st form Frieza, By bugs, etc.

[@craigpeoples9883]

@@spritvio639And Goten and Trunks never do anything important outside of GT in super there no longer important Vegeta stopped training with him Chi Chi went back to her Saiyan saga self and stopped Goten from training and they are never in any of the tornements

[@ThelronFjord]

8:13 Well what do you expect explaining the concept of Gods to the guy who's name is Mr. SATAN.

[@spartanq7781]

That makes it even funnier. In that case I agree with the devil. Hell (that wasn't even intentional) he is more effective than the Gods in the past and present against the God destroyer. That is so ironic that it is so good. Screw the Gods hail Satan.

[@Quickbobhero]

I think the thing that makes it so frustrating about Gohan is that he didn't even have to win the fight to get a fine conclusion to his character arc. Gohan's biggest issue in both Toriyama's eyes and the story's is that Gohan doesn't have any fighting spirit. He merely follows orders, not planning any sort of comprehensible strategies to win against Buutenks and was simply lucky Tien and Goku were there. With the ending reinforcing the central theme being that the ideal man is one with the spirit of a martial artist who always aims to improve himself, Gohan as well as Goten and Trunks simply needed to understand that not having that mentality was the reason why they lost at the ending and it would have been satisfying. It would have also turned Toriyama's haphazardness to its advantage changing the theme from "we must pass the torch to the next generation" to "perhaps there are still things the younger generations need to learn from us and we have to teach it to them." I'm hoping the anime somewhat addresses this because the manga sure doesn't. Also the double potara earrings was such an easy fix I can't believe Toriyama didn't think about it. Just make it so that a Potara earrings can only fuse once. Easy.

[@xelex8942]

The more I think about it, the more I belive that the potara arbitrary rules would work perfectly for jokes set ups and at the same time being thr convienent tools Toriyama needed. Like: "Of course potara last forever, what kind of God would be incompetent enought to choose wrong/be tricked into it?" And then the older Kaioshin explain his situation. Or: "Of course the potara only works once, why waster more effort into do something works multiple times, when is suposed to be eternal in the first place?" Showing how lazy this important people really were.

[@nellewoodruff6337]

@@xelex8942 Thanks for my new headcanon

[@stephengudz5441]

If they ever cover Dragon Ball Super in DBD, I await the 3rd god rant, simply titled “Oh My Fucking God” in 2027

[@LazyBonez03]

Those finalists did not disappoint.

[@spartanq7781]

I especially love the one who deservedly won.

[@ladyaceina]

the fact GT touches on the abuse of the dragon balls and actually has the characters learn from mistakes is why i like GT (hell VEGETA ist he one to suggest fusion)

[@nellewoodruff6337]

Vegeta in GT was so good. He actually put the fact that he cares about others and respects Goku into practice.

[@delgande]

@@nellewoodruff6337 the right patho f development for him after admitting goku is better but noooooo super ignores thst

[@diegobendinelli2680]

I know everyone has said this, but GT has a lot of good ideas... it just fumbles in the execution.

[@kylefields3951]

@@diegobendinelli2680 GT has better villains overall than Super and the orignal source material IMO. Dr. Myuu, Baby, Ledgic, The Shadow Dragons, Super 17. There are *Definitely* some rough spots but the characters are very distinct from each other and have good set up. I don't think Baby is even bad execution, I think he's straight up the 2nd best villain in the franchise right behind Demon King Piccolo.

[@rando9326]

@@kylefields3951 GT’s villains fall flat in personality especially 17 and the shadow dragons And while baby is good, he narratively does alot of stupid decisions that ruin his character Not to mention his motive is basically revenge While in super yes most villains are ass ( they’re not even villains really) Zamasu is a good villain in terms of motivation and somewhat execution Yes the story flops later on But you can’t tell me goku black wasn’t intimidating and so interesting as a character at the start of the arc and even till his last moment

[@spartanq7781]

Happy ten year anniversary of Dragon Ball dissection. You actually began this series the day after my sister's tenth birthday and I didn't even know that until you brought it up recently. What a way to commemorate such a occasion via a God tier rant on well Gods. The overabundance on Gods who only exist to be better than old Gods who were introduced for that same reason. In this arc it gets so ridiculous because there are still more Gods introduced but then so many of them we either don't see or exist just to explain why Majin Boo returned to normal. Goku's decision is so out of character for this arc but worse it didn't need to happen like that. The portara could have just been destroyed when Majin Boo destroyed the Earth. That Kaioshin tried to give them to Goku and Vegeta but they get evaporated in the blast. That one change would have prevented that pointless annoyance. On the matter of not using the other fusion just make it so they don't have time and then force them to fight side by side. Something that Goku suggested to Vegeta much earlier. Geez you were right no one ever learns their lesson in this series. Roshi must be pissed that no one ever listened to him.

[@markmorales7958]

And thus, “Zamasu did nothing wrong”.

[@ML1399TheyStoleMyName]

One of my favorite moments from the anime is when the kais and Dende realize they forgot Mr. Satan and the puppy, all Elder Kai has to say is "That poor dog."

[@spartanq7781]

That was from the dub and it paints the Gods in a terrible light.

[@ML1399TheyStoleMyName]

@@spartanq7781 Still hilarious

[@ML1399TheyStoleMyName]

@@BigDoont246 Wish denied. Have a drink and enjoy the party

[@anotherfandom]

Man, the Buu arc seriously drags on once Gotenks is gone. I just can't care. I remember when I was reading it, I was just continuing because I was so close to the end.

[@kainthedragoon8081]

I’d simply have the earrings not work on someone twice. No one has ever defused before so it’s never been a problem before

[@cosmiccynic2757]

Happy 10th anniversary! This is one of the best Dragon Ball-related KZbin series.

[@razkable]

Something great about dragonball is all the dubs and forms people have seen of it makes it very fun to nitpick and talk about in different forms cause that's the kind of series it is ..its flawed and not serious at all..it's written poorly and fans are having fun with critiquing it...it's what makes the community happy

[@animefan77]

The Kaioh/Supreme Kai really just exist because you can't have a bishonen main villain for an arc or more expressive characters with regular Kais apparently- at least for Super.

[@jacobchaudoin9680]

You know, Goku and Vegeta are the reason why Majin Buu was resurrected in the first place, so the fact that they continue to risk the universe by not fusing together, both having clearly learned nothing.... Yeah, I'm not a fan of them here.

[@spartanq7781]

He basically said that in so many words. It isn't even consistent with Goku's character not more than a few chapters ago either.

[@ZeroX7649]

I would argue that in the back of Goku's mind, they tried Vegito once, and he couldn't get the job done. Despite being able to wipe Buu off his boot, he dicks around too much and won't do it and they lose that fight and get eaten as a result. They have no reason to believe Vegito would do any different with Kid Buu. If TeamFourStar we're still around, they'd have a field day with this.

[@jasonone8726]

​@@spartanq7781If you're referring to it not being consistent, because he wanted to fuse before. Goku did say that it was partly because Buu no longer had anyone absorbed, he assumed this version of Buu was weaker than the previous Buu's.

[@spartanq7781]

@@jasonone8726 Bs he had been advocating for fusion the entire arc until now all of a sudden.

[@jasonone8726]

@@spartanq7781 Yes, but I just explained the change.

[@TeamTowers1]

When it comes down to rejecting the potara, I always took it to mean Goku was a lot more confident that he wouldn't need them against Kid Buu, as oppose to Super Buu who he had no chance against with out them.

[@brandonlyon730]

Seems like a bad time to act that confident when all of your family has been killed and your planet has been destroyed.

[@connorschultz380]

I agree, I took it as "no need, I got this bro" rather them him morally refusing it

[@TeamTowers1]

@@brandonlyon730 Yeah but this is Goku we are talking about. He's not quite what he would get flanderised into in Super (or Toriyama's own revisionist history of the character). He was willing to put aside his desire for a good fight, for the greater good when the situation absolutely demanded it. But only when the situation fully demanded it. If Goku has an enemy he can defeat on his own he will always pick the one on one option, for the sake of a good fight. In the case of Super Buu, it was an opponent he knew damn well he couldn't beat, so the situation that demanded him put his desire aside. But with Kid Buu, Goku was actualy stronger than him, his confidence that he could take him, isn't entirely miss placed, he just underestimated the power drain of SSJ3.

[@louisvictor3473]

I always took it to mean he wasn't confident he could Buutenks or Buuhan. When Gotenks' fusion ended inside Buu, SSJ3 Goku even teases Buu "you don't plan on beating me like that, do you" (on the dub, the subs I've seen he says Gohan can beat Buu now but says nothing about himself, but given how little of a fuck he seems to give at that moment while standing right there in front of him, he even goes back to base form, I say he feels confident he could beat that Buu too, he just won't have to).

[@goldgunscantshoot973]

@@louisvictor3473 Goku fears Super Buu when they're stuck in his belly and regrets the Potara so I'm pretty sure he wasn't confident until Kid Buu showed up.

[@deusebroadwater]

Been watching you since middle school , been amazing ride happy 10 year anniversary

[@sumeracarnatia6997]

After watching this the first time, I for fun wondered if Dragon Ball’s pantheon could be made more cohesive and I think I managed to get a at least serviceable result, which involves moving around and removing some steps of the ladder. • First off is planetary gods, like Kami, who watch over their individual planets with their individual purposes and methods of achieving the title. • Next is King Yemma, the judge of the afterlife who decide whether souls shall go to Heaven or Hell based on their actions in life. • Above him stands the Gods of Creation and Destruction, aka what Shin was changed to in Super and Beerus. Their role is to maintain the balance of life and death in a universe, making sure that which thrives eventually falls to not cause imbalance. The God of Destruction must be made sure to be at least among the most powerful beings in a universe to ensure any necessary destruction, no matter how big, is possible. • These two gods are instructed on where their powers are needed by the four Kais, each overseeing a quadrant of the universe. If a Heaven worthy soul was especially noble in life, they may gifted special training by the Kai of the quadrant they were born in. • Standing above those four Kais is the Grand Kai, who watches over the entire universe, their choices being the final word of any debate. If a mortal trained by a Kaio proves themself worthy of it, their training may be taught by him instead. • And finally at the very top is the god of the multiverse, Zeno. Origin completely enigmatic, he created all existing universes and so his decision on anything regarding his creation is absolute. He is attended by the Grand Minister, an Angel, who supports him through advice and opinions. Any god across the multiverse that misuse their power will be forced to be given one of the Minster’s children as an attendant that supervises them. Regarding if their respective placements should be considered a job where the worker can retire and be replaced like Kami, I’m uncertain except that I believe at least the judge of souls and Zeno should be exceptions. The only one I’m uncertain of regarding where to place is Chronoa, the Goddess of Time.

[@aetherkid]

I figure Chronoa would be like HR in this instance. Since Time Travel is forbidden - but surprisingly common - they need an outside specialist to keep that particular problem in check. The other Gods are too busy managing the living of various planets, judging and guarding the dead, or destroying dangerous and unworthy planets to mess around with time travelers.

[@misterbadguy7325]

So, would you just boot out the other four Kaioshin completely, or would it be a case where the five of them share a job because governing life in the universe is tricky?

[@sumeracarnatia6997]

@@misterbadguy7325 Technically yes. I’d save Shin for later to be introduced alongside Beerus as his counterpart. I think the Grand Supreme Kai could be changed into a former Grand Kai that Buu still absorbed and so the current Grand Kai takes Shin’s role in the Buu arc to warn the heroes and confront Babidi alongside them. I’d even tie it in to the Otherworld Tournament by having Goku recognize him once he reveals himself. Like Lance said, the other Supreme Kais were all essentially redundant so keeping the Grand Kai at the top makes it easier to comprehend, with Grand Supreme Kai changed into being his predecessor. Regarding Elder Kai, I think he could still be a God of Creation that Beerus sealed away in anger during an argument. Perhaps that’s why he was given Whis as a supervising attendant.

[@ismailkeskinklc5300]

Tbh when goku grabbed on to Satan and dende it was a split second decision, in the Anime it was more stretched so that it looked like he had the opportunity to at least grab Gohan before teleporting that's probably why people hate that scene since most people watched the Anime instead of reading the Manga.

[@BagOfMagicFood]

It had cool lighting, though!

[@louisvictor3473]

I never got the hate for that. Goku and Vegeta go try to reach the others, Dende and Satan are alive on kind of on the way, Goku still things he can instant transport everyone out so no problem in his head so he picks them up first as he sees them, he tries to focus for instant transmission and realizes he has no time to focus on a ki, Shin shows up and reaches his hand, they take it. Vegeta gives him flak because he is fucking Vegeta, of course he gives Kakarot some crap.

[@ismailkeskinklc5300]

@@louisvictor3473 It's just another "gOkU BaD dAd" comment that people make to be a dick to him

[@spartanq7781]

@@louisvictor3473 He said that in part 25 already.

[@bageltoo]

Small thing but I really appreciate the Subtitles on every video for the hearing-impaired. Congrats on the decade milestone!

[@Barmeecarba]

I can't believe I've caught up to this, these videos have all been so great to watch and your discussions of the material never get old so thank you for still continuing this great series. I will definetly need to rewatch this series again whenever I reread the manga.

[@MistareFusion]

Thank you so much!

[@animaticlunatic9259]

By (all my various) God(s), Happy 10th anniversary. And I think the problem here stems from is how DB mostly equates gods with power or at least source of it. Every time God is added it is to introduce the bigger threat and way to combat it. Which, as you noted, just makes the God as a tittle devolve into "I am strongest guy up to this point." And I think that even series realized it, since that is what gods end up being. And which is why Berus, for how much he adds onto this undefined pantheon, has probably has most defined role net to Enma. He is god of destruction so he must be strong. But than there are problems of Whis and the fact that Berus seemingly abuses his power... Yeah, it never really got better.

[@Mepphy99]

I mean technically Whis, gran Priets and Zeno are defined by being Angel and whotever Zeno Is Creatures who just Watch without moving an inch but training the God of Destruction for balanced If Kaioshin/Kaios could be able to create Life instead of Guiding It and ... time travel(?), DB could have a structure Maybe I am getting too much over this

[@funkdoc1112]

Toriyama's dwarf proportions and gigantic necks were OUT OF CONTROL by the end.

[@HustlerHorstRuediger]

I just found your Channel a few weeks ago and apperently i binged 10 years worth of DB Dissection in 5 days. :D Reall really great content!

[@chrissullivan6572]

Happy anniversary. I found this channel bout 2 years ago I guess. I love to listen to your old stuff when I sleep.

[@spyroG3]

To resolve the potara issue they could have said that it was unknown if it could work twice on the same individuals, as there was no precedent for a separation before. And congratulations! 10 years! That's dedication, I hope you continue to make more content on many topics in general!

[@spartanq7781]

Those were a different pair though. All that needed to happen is that they get destroyed in Majin Boo's earth destroying nuke as Kaioshin tries to give it to Goku and Vegeta.

[@cuac232]

Didn't expect a video so soon after december. Thank you

[@talesfromthenuzlocke1619]

MistareFusion god rants are the best way to wake up

[@TwilightWolf032]

The refusal to fuse again could have easily been solved if the problem was that Vegeta was dead but Goku alive, and thus the Potara earrings wouldn't work. And given Kaioushin is far less experienced than the Supreme Kai, he can't forfeit his life to another person because he doesn't know how. Problem solved!

[@shadowofdimentio4618]

But... how would they have fused in the first place? And if they don't, you don't need the earrings at all. So... what's the fix?

[@spartanq7781]

All that needed to happen was that the second pair of portara were destroyed by Majin Boo's Earth destroying nuke.

[@mymouseaintbroken]

or just make Vegeta refuse to fuse again, before Goku opens his mouth

[@spartanq7781]

@@mymouseaintbroken No that was dumb enough the first time. It didn't need to happen again.

[@mymouseaintbroken]

@@spartanq7781 i somewhat agree, but hey its Vegeta, the dumbest charecter in Z

[@DarkSpiderZero]

Now Super has made the god situation even worse. Each Universe has a God of Destruction and only 1 Supreme Kai as their counterpart. But Universe 7 used to have 4 Supreme Kais and a Grand Supreme Kai. The other universe's Supreme Kais weren't labeled as Grand, so there's a discrepancy there. Were the other universe Supreme Kais "Grand Supreme Kais" and the show didn't tell us? Do the other universes have 4 Supreme Kais and one of them act as a representative? Is it that there's only 1 Supreme Kai (the Grand Supreme Kai), but the other 4 Supreme Kais were only apprentices (like how Zamasu was)? Did something specifically happen in Universe 7, where they had to split the "Supreme Kai" position between 5 different people? There's a lot of questions that Super introduced.

[@andychen828]

While all the new gods and angels have very good interesting design and Berrus is a a very enjoyable character These new addition gods kind of making the already a mess gods system in later DBZ even more conflicting/confucing. What's even the point of Superem Kais now we had the God of Destructions ? The Superem Kais become completely useless gods, since the God of Destructions were the one doing and incharge of all the fighting with evil, checking on & wiping out evil race things. They said Superem Kais are incharge of the life sides, checking and helping out the good race, but they don't do it that too, they just watched

[@najadamu2724]

"The Kaioshin are just the Vegetto of gods" ~MistareFusion, 2022

[@spartanq7781]

Created only because Toei used another of their kind. No seriously that's exactly why Toriyama created them.

[@numberhunter62]

I honestly think they could have used the fact that Buu had "devolved" and got smalller as a way to not have them fuse. Make them believe that he's now gotten weak enough for them to not have to resort to such an extreme, and to leave the option open as a last resort. And then to remove that device and the last sign of hope, the earrings end up shattering from Buu's attacks. In other words, use their confidence to have them not fuse, not the fact that Buu isn't fused anymore. This would be more believable, and more in character.

[@Redeyblagon]

I like to think that the idea of evil dragons coming from the dragon balls was already a concept in Toriyama's mind during this part of the story. Like, he had that idea prepared just in case the editors asked him to please continue the story. But then he didn't, and GT used that idea.

[@Morgil27]

Given Toriyama's penchant for writing off the seat of his pants, I doubt that's the case.

[@Kisaru1000]

Considering the idea was introduced 10 chapters before the series ended, how overall short the final confrontation with "Kid Buu" is, how much the series popularity had diminished compared to it's peak, and the fact that Toriyama almost *never* plans out his stories in such a way... well, I very much doubt this was the case. It is neat how the writers of GT took Old Kaioshin's lines and expanded on them though.

[@gavinlucas9761]

It’s crazy to think that you’ve been doing this for 10 years now. And we're already are approaching the final battle of the series. And this video didn’t disappoint as it explains a lot of the problems I have with the upper gods. Can’t wait to see the next video and hopefully the end of the Majin Boo Arc.

[@spartanq7781]

It's not. It would have concluded in part 27 if it was. There's no way he'd cram all that in one episode anyway.

[@trevingsly8050]

Damn 10 years thats crazy. Ive been watching since you did the dragon box reviews way back, and I gotta say seeing the channel and dragon ball dissection evolve over the years has been awesome!

[@Livingroomset799Dep]

Man it’s a really good idea to foreshadow the usage and misusage of the Dragon Balls over the years and how that might disrupt the natural state of the universe. I really hope that as the series progresses something meaningful will be done with this concept that isn’t an enormous disappointment

[@spritvio639]

Is that a small dig at the Shadow Dragons arc in GT?

[@Kisaru1000]

Man, the "Shadow Dragon" concept is such a cool idea, and really fitting for what was (for a while) the final arc of animated Dragon Ball. But the execution was so... bleh.

[@kmgyening]

OMG THANK YOU Lance. A few months ago, I was discussing multiple contradictions in Goku's behavior throughout this entire arc, due to Toriyama's writing, and I'm just glad you pointed out some of the conflicting things Goku says and does by this point, because it felt like I was mostly met with headcanon justifications for Goku's contradictions. I have to say, the excuse for not fusing, and the claim that he could have beaten Fat Boo with SSJ3 were among the craziest, since they kind of make Goku look like a lying a-hole.

[@Redsnausage]

Congrats on 10 years! I can't believe this is still one of my favorite channels on KZbin, I remember randomly running into a dissection video in the early DragonBall days and thinking this would be a fun binge in a few months when you were done 😅 Glad it's still going so strong and there's still so much to talk about

[@someoneelse2384]

I hear you, but what if... they added in a few more gods in a sequel series?

[@spartanq7781]

Write that down write that down it's brilliant.

[@PrimeroJinJusuke]

Super gets away with it because the pantheon doesn’t get not only expanded, but much more defined in the process. We know now Kaiōshin are supposed to do, Beerus‘s job is clearly defined, and Zen’ō has also an understandable job and we know what he’s capable of, and we also know what Angels are doing. My only problem with the Gods of Destruction, mainly Beerus, is that Beerus basically put the power level bar too far, just like Freeza. Cell and Boo never were that extreme, but Freeza and Beerus created such ridiculous standards that makes anything related to power a giant mess.

[@brandonlyon730]

@@PrimeroJinJusukeI mean it does make sense for GoD to be that powerful, you be crappy at the job if normal mortal can just kill easily before destroying a planet by just having a mortal being more power or just having most of the population ganging up on you in mass.

[@PrimeroJinJusuke]

@@brandonlyon730 No, not really. The Muten Roshi can destroy the moon with ease. And anyone of the Z-Warriors can destroy a planet. A god doesn’t need to be that strong to destroy a planet, and godly powers can be used in a different way that’s dissimilar to martial arts. And since the Kaiōshin are at least as strong as an SSJ, there’s not really that much competition to fear from.

[@brandonlyon730]

@@PrimeroJinJusukeI don’t mean power in destorying a planet, I mean power to fight back the inhabitants that might not like there home plants getting destroyed. What if Beerus was less then Frieza’s power and he goes to Frieza’s homeworld with the intention of destorying it, but then Frieza himself showed up along with thousands upon thousands of his own race, minions and, mercenaries. They could easily overwhelm Beerus and possibly kill him.

[@jellybean2645]

CONGRATS ON 10 YEARS! It's been a wild ride, but here we are! And I've never been happier

[@VICTORZITOSS]

I really want to leave a better message but I have an evaluation by the end of this week Hopefully the fact of spending the free it it'll bring while celebrating your anniversary is one of the things I'm looking forward to will make you realize how much I enjoy this series Thank you for all your work And oh mighty algorithm, please bless this video

[@coyotestylepro1150]

Cant believe its been going this long. CONGRATS

[@ThatDudeCurtis6]

Happy Anniversary! Thank you for all your amazing content!

[@fbjkatsuu]

I've been enjoying your series for several years now. The thing is, I never watched or read dragon ball at all, but your analysis is so entertaining and insightful that I can't wait for each new episode. Thanks for all the work!

[@sonicmariogaming2222]

Sorry I’m so late to the punch here but congratulations on the tenth anniversary man! Also my biggest gripe with how Goku acts here in regards to the earring is that it COMPLETELY throws out any possibly maturity/growth he had in the otherworld during those seven years. I honestly would’ve been fine if Goku just tossed it back and said something like “Look we’ll use them if worst comes to very worst.” Since I can completely understand not wanting to share a body. But that’s not what happens. He and Vegeta completely undermine the situation they're in YET AGAIN and we get more idiocy from them. But having said that I honestly think the final fight against Kid Buu is really neat…So I at least look forward to that! And hey I guess you could say this was a GOD damn fine episode…(I’m sorry.)

[@MrKurrar1291]

"A fat box of dad jokes" is now the phrase of the month. Well done, Fusion, and happy 10th!

[@pokesonav]

At least DBS re-contextualized Kaioshins too be the Gods of Creation, so they're not redundant anymore. Kaioshins create, Kais oversee

[@spartanq7781]

Super improved on something? If only it did more of that.

[@pokesonav]

@Spartan Q77 Eh, I mostly liked Super

[@shenanigans8353]

Seeing how vegito could easily handle buuhan it's pretty clear the same would be the case for pure boo but it would be very anticlimactic for the climactic battle of the series to have its tension so utterly undermined. So stupid forced tension it is with our hero son goku insisting on playing fair when the universe is literally on the line.

[@razkable]

Just have kid boo break the earrings

[@goldgunscantshoot973]

Why would they fuse again and DIE? They thought they could take him, and they were almost right.

[@spartanq7781]

@@razkable That's what I have been saying. There was a easy and logical get out Toriyama failed to see. It would also make Boo look smart by remembering what the portara produced the last time they used it.

[@nani4249]

And then the "heroes" only winning by asking help for billions of people, which isn't fair since Buu was fighting alone, meaning goku's logic on fighting alone was immediately dropped after he started using the spirit bomb

[@goldgunscantshoot973]

@@nani4249 So what, they should've kept at it after they saw they were outmatched? They can adapt, being proud doesn't mean never letting go of your pride. In fact, Goku having to use Genkidama is how the seeds for his wish to revive Buu as a good guy are planted. It's good writing if anything.

[@Ataru320]

Great anniversary episode; sort of great hearing you lay it out that they screwed so much up with the god and Toriyama isn't as creative as he thinks.

[@Aust51989]

That whole plot point about the dragon balls being misused is one of my favorite things about GT.

[@seethinggohan]

This may be your best rant yet.

[@djivangrigoryan]

Congrats on the 10th anniversary!

[@End_Zionism]

The only thing that troubles me is that my friend from Japan’s mom is Shinto and they explained to me that Kami are not actually Gods but more like their own mythological spirit we don’t have a direct translation for in the West. So the issue seems to be more complicated and lost in translation than we think

[@d.shaffer8782]

Animism. All things have a distinct spirit with some being more powerful then others. That's not really unique to Asian cultures, though. You see surviving traces of it in Greek myth with the Nymphs and other related nature spirits, or the Yazata of Zoroastrianism.

[@louisvictor3473]

Gods technically works alright, at least in a proper polytheistic way. But also because that is a bit more what Toryiama was going for, he starts with Earth's one Kami-sama just like the Japanese translate God into Japanese, and the layers above of rulers/regents aren't particularly Kami like. In fact, their Japanese name use a kanji/word for "king", they're not even called kami or gods exactly.

[@End_Zionism]

@@louisvictor3473 yes that’s sort of how it was explained to me, it’s almost like each one is a king of a specific domain and even though the Japanese do tend to translate God as Kami I was told that the Shinto Kami are sort of like each the king of their specific domain but many of the stories see them as wise prophets or maintainers of nature rather than active characters so it makes sense to me how they were handled by Toriyama (although it would’ve been badass to see Supreme Kai fight with special powers)

[@ClaymoreLinx]

Congratulations on ten long years. While I agree with most of your rant, I think the "Gods" that come before the post-cell filler are well developed. I do want to say too that you've been an inspiration for us on our channel; we've covered Roshi and Korin so far among the ones you mentioned in this video. Roshi: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppmTXoJ5brSne6M Korin: kzbin.info/www/bejne/emOYcqSal8plaLM

[@SHINOBI-03]

Congratulations of the anniversary. Glad I did some contribution for your first episode.

[@dblibruary]

When it was brought up that Roshi was based off a God, he apparently was in the Dr Slump universe but I am unsure what episode he appeared in, does any 80's people know what episode that was?

[@kinografiks]

Bro i found your channel very recently and i gotta say this is some of the best DB content out there , amazing content bro i hope your channel blows up

[@peffiSC2source]

Happy 10 year anniversary MistareFusion

[@mechajay3358]

Happy 10 Year Anniversary. GT actually took the concept of the heroes Misusing the Dragon Balls in an interesting direction. Whether or not they executed it well is up for interpretation. With Toriyama nearing the end of writing the manga I doubt he care to explain every God character he threw into the story.

[@TheAzulmagia]

I believe the retroactive justification for Goku not wanting to fuse to fight Kid Buu, at least in the fandom, is that Kid Buu is weaker than Super Buu considering Goku can actually fight him without being instantly murdered and thereby doesn't see the need for Fusion. But you are correct that it flies in the face of his earlier plans for Fat Buu. Also, I heard Kid Buu is supposed to have the Kai's teleportation instead of Instant Transmission. Is that accurate?

[@Green-FUKUFUKUFUKUFUKUFUKU]

you'll find that goku says "he copied my Instant Transmission just by seeing it, woa!"

[@TheAzulmagia]

@@Green-FUKUFUKUFUKUFUKUFUKU That makes sense. I suppose the person that said otherwise probably assumed he had the Kai teleportation due to the ones he absorbed.

[@DarkInception]

Happy 10th Anniversary for DBD It took me sometime to find you, as there are a lot of Dragon Ball content creators. You by *far* have been my favorite and I’d personally argue that you’re the best. Love your work and you always have my support! -Love, random dude you’ve never met lmao

[@Zethlynn]

Happy 10 years of DBD, I resently found you and was a good binge! Amazing please keep up the amazing work while we still have story :3

[@asherzerbib3461]

Inch by inch we get closer. By the by, how is your arm? Are you doing okay?

[@aaronhaze7033]

Happy 10th anniversary! Congrats for accomplishing this monumental task!

[@goldenarms36]

i feel old has it really been 10 years of the series. i still remember when you dropped this series like it was yesterday

[@quanthebronxny3996]

Congrats on 10 years!!! Keep Going, I love your insight on DB issues

[@MegaFeeso]

Been here since day 1 of dbd so happy to see you get this far

[@EnigmaBarry]

I never realized how broken the God system is. They're interesting because we want to know what they do, but Toriyama doesn't do anything with them. They become outclassed and useless. And then there's Dragon Ball Super where we learn of the sole Supreme Kai for each universe. They're never referred to as the Grand Supreme Kai or Supreme Kai of certain direction. And then there's the Destroyer Gods. Beerus's life is linked to Shin's, implying there's a destroyer god for each Supreme Kai. So there should be multiple Destroyer gods for each Supreme Kai. But each universe only has one.

[@succubastard1019]

I always thought that Beerus's life was linked to all of them, meaning that they would all have to be killed for him to die as a consequence. This is what even Toyotaro seems to imply in the DBS manga, by killing the Future Elder Kaioshin while he was still inside the Z-Sword.

[@Mepphy99]

Imagine having 4 Beerus Beerus already is used like sh*t and put on the sidelines babysitting, but 4 like him? Iiish

[@metalskulkbanepl161]

17:00 Since after Buu killed Supreme Kai our good old Shin was promoted to Supreme Kai and no one took his old job, I like to think the "Kai" level is some sort of "new" replacement. That King Kai is basically the same Shin used to be before, but for some reason, they decided to lower it. Just a head canon, but I think it works.

[@malcolmisgee]

Damn bro 10 years… you’re crazy

[@InfoDumpsYT]

You're DB dissections are very good, I'd love to see One Piece dissections like these!

[@jeremiahbennett3004]

I would too, but considering dragon ball has like 500 something chapters, and one piece is 1041 chapters in and has WAY more stuff to analyze

[@xExotic]

You’ve been doing this for 10 years?! Wow congrats man! Great review too!

[@Dexuz]

Daniel Quinlan, best Quoran, best Toei mastermind.

[@kingkirby1394]

10 years, man how the time has flown akin to the rant about majin vegeta I expected this to way harsher than the rants in the late freeza arc and beginning/end of the cell arc but pure rage and disappointment about lacking elements in the later (dbz) portion of the story isn’t the point, after all as you fittingly said all the way back in the beginning you love all of dragon ball and it’s really neat to see the near end of the original manga, I wish you the best lance and hope your channel keeps going strong even when DBD runs its course ^____^

[@drearydoll6305]

7:22 Is this the part where you can relate to vetega?🤣

[@awaxdem]

It's pretty cool to ser an american who know the origina name, original BGM and over all the manga. Thanks for the culture

[@MrTim-sh6ru]

I was gonna watch the video on Patreon…. But unfortunately, I was busy this weekend lol. And hey I’m on the list!

[@MagillanicaLouM]

Babe, wake up, new Dragonball Dissection is up

[@justinjones7411]

I mean the closest thing we got to Old Kai explanation about the dragonballs were the Shadow Dragons. But even then they were originally filler characters.

[@titaniumxete97]

My brain remembered this as making more sense than it did. I always thought the Kais each had a quadrant of the Milky Way galaxy and then the Supreme Kais' had their quadrants covering the whole universe, but that's not actually what the story says.

[@androsh9039]

Here's to a godly DBZ channel!