PIT@SD: Green tossed after arguing balk reversals

After a balk is called, and then reversed, and then reversed again to score Andrew McCutchen, Andy Green gets ejected for arguing
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[@yurifrommw215]

It’s bad umpiring, but not because of the call, but because they called it, reversed it, then called it a balk again. That will make managers and coaches VERY angry

[@transitfan954]

4:41 "Andy Green has not been thrown out of a major league game" 5:05 Green ejected. LMAO

[@serpentisma]

I loved that commentary towards the end. "Good for Andy Green! Get your money's worth!!!" I have to admit I'd go the same route if I had to stand there for a double reversal because the umpires couldn't get their job straight.

[@storyofcory]

That was some awful umpiring right there. It seems the umps basically let Clint Hurdle change their minds for them, and that should NOT happen in ANY sport.

[@jeremytamlin715]

I know they have in to him which is complete bullshit for umpires to do

[@storyofcory]

I take it you mean "have it in for him"? ;)

[@jeremytamlin715]

+storyofcory I meant give in lol

[@Owllex369]

im at pirates fan but i agree

[@seamus1956]

I actually think this was good umpiring, because they ultimately got the call right. The original call was over the arm motion which, although it slowed down and then sped up again was definitely not a balk. Then Hurdle came out and challenged the foot contact on the rubber. When the umpires got to their second huddle, you can clearly see (if you can read lips) the ump I assume was the 2nd base umpire stay "he jumped off the rubber? Yeah." Losing contact with the pitching rubber while in the act of throwing IS a balk. It was ugly, convoluted and lengthy, but the final result was a correct call. That should be what matters.

[@Lazerus53]

double reversal, not good. it appears the umps didn't know the rules and had to be reminded.

[@MrLeeG100]

Nice to see the fire coming from Green. He had a right to be angry.

[@chinesepugs-bestbreedofdog7254]

Andy Green argues a baulk, he says “It’s not a baulk! It’s not a baulk! It’s not a baulk!” For the first time in his managerial career Andy Green gets ejected from the game for arguing baulks. GOOD FOR ANDY GREEN! GET YOUR MONEY’S WORTH!

[@karlricker3291]

@@chinesepugs-bestbreedofdog7254 Andy Green argues a baulk, he says: “It’s not a baulk! It’s not a baulk!” For the first time in his managerial career, Andy Green gets ejected from the game for arguing baulks. GOOD FOR ANDY GREEN! GET YOUR MONEY’S WORTH!

[@BrotherIntel]

LOL when he chews the gum at 3:50

[@tramsramsey]

Look at his hat lmao

[@captaindoge4685]

+Mr. Baseball12 lol look at the top of his head

[@Kartracer6]

In the end I think they got the call right but I don't blame the coach for being upset after the circus trip it took to get there.

[@MrGamecubeVT]

+Kartracer6 I still don't appreciate that one biased announcer

[@mikecarr4178]

+MrGamecube17 Most MLB games are carried by local stations or small regional networks; they serve the team's fan base and all tend to be somewhat biased. Sometimes you can find videos of a disputed play from both teams' hometown networks; the contrast can be interesting.

[@spoogsq836]

+MrGamecube17 You realize that he is the Padres Commentator right? As in the guy who calls game's at petco? Of course he's biased, every single teams own home announcer is biased.

[@MrGamecubeVT]

Spoogs Q exactly and I hate it so much I can't stand biased announcers

[@Inevitable037]

Since when is Ray Liotta an umpire? 5:14

[@bggraham83]

for real on ray Liota.....tells green to forget about it.

[@doesnotexist305]

For as far back as he could remember he always wanted to be an umpire.

[@calebkim6954]

But then here is the argument. Look up Carter Capps' pitching motion. He does the same thing that Rea does here, on every single pitch.

[@DetTigers1094]

Carter Capps Pitching motion should be considered a balk, but with no runners on base, it's legal. With runners on it should be illegal.

[@alexh8613]

+Caleb Kim Capps should be called for a balk. The only argument against a balk against Capps, is that he does it every time. But even so, he should be called for a balk.

[@Rilo4466]

No, the rule states that a pitcher may lunge off the rubber before the pitcher throws the ball so long as the pitchers foot is in contact with the dirt...

[@anthonyalvarez2217]

The rule doesn't state as long as his foot stays on the dirt, that was a ruling mlb made. But it's not the Same as Carter. Rea hopped, MLB explicitly stated that is an illegal pitch. Capps doesn't hop

[@anthonyalvarez2217]

***** nuthin

[@SkepticCyclist]

I didn't even know it was possible to balk while pitching out of the windup anyway

[@wilsoncrocker]

5:38 i thought kevin nash lost a bunch of weight & was a coach for the padres there for a minute lol

[@ThatOldSWDude]

Ain't nobody trying to get past Mark McGwire... everybody just starts backing up no matter how mad they are!

[@scottv2510]

the second the pivot foot comes up and he goes home, its a balk

[@XxPunxunite]

Hahaha love how the announcers comment of Hurdles gum chewing while waiting for the final call

[@shadytnu24]

the problem here - and if memory serves, Green referenced this in his postgame remarks that night - is that balks are like balls and strikes: you are supposed to be automatically ejected for arguing them. the umpires got the call right initially, then got together themselves to figure out what they saw and reversed it. at that moment, the explanation should have been given to hurdle, and when he came back out, he should have been tossed. sloppy umpiring mechanics led to the wrong manager being ejected, even though they got the call right.

[@PetesBeats_]

How isn't every one of Carter Capps pitches a balk then?

[@chancey7427]

+IRL Patrick He drags his foot, not jumping like Rea did.

[@PetesBeats_]

Chancey Colborn I guarantee his foot isnt constantly on the ground every single pitch he makes

[@TheFancyMentlegen]

+IRL Patrick Do you have any evidence to support that claim?

[@chancey7427]

+IRL Patrick I can't guarantee it either, and it probably isn't every time. But that's the argument MLB gives it as to why it's allowed.

[@codycruz1714]

FatBitch123 the argument by the commentators was that he retouched the rubber while after landing. Capps doesnt

[@joef3850]

Balk is the correct call, but it was initially called for the wrong reason. Hurdle came out a second time after seeing the tape and pleaded his case. It did appear the umpires lost control of things, but ultimately the right call was made.

[@chrisquevedo1345]

Carter Capps does this shit all the time

[@yabbaguy]

+chris quevedo Capps drags his foot on the dirt of the mound though. Here, Rea's foot came up.

[@chancey7427]

I know, I was saying why MLB doesn't call it. That's the argument they give.

[@PhilWood82]

Drags, hops, and even shimmies are fine, so long as there are no runners on base.

[@aydenkresge8716]

Carter Capps has nothing to do with this play

[@dylanbosch6335]

1:43 McCutchen player of the game for his whip

[@coylio33ify]

there was a situation exact like this in a college game I was at except I think they were arguing the neighborhood play or some other obscure rule. umps called it, home manager came out to argue, they reversed it, away manager came out to argue. umps came together again and in the delay I said to my friend "one of these coaches is about to twist the hell off" sure enough the away coach was the one that got screwed and he proceeded to empty the dugout onto the field for the next 10 minutes.

[@stonedprophet2463]

Very underrated manager. He will bring a WS Title to SD.

[@jamiemadden2924]

the idea of any umpire calls being "unreviewable" is absolutely ridiculous

[@Gradius6]

3:20 San Diego announcer: "[Hurdle]'s going to make his point and continue to make his point until he gets tossed, or..." Cue umpires huddling up again and some very disappointed homers hoping to see Hurdle tossed. XD As he should have been, of course, because you can't argue a balk.

[@jackoakes1998]

I thought it wasn't a balk till they slowed it down and the pitcher jumps off the pitchers plate mid pitch.

[@wganusgreen]

Absolutely a balk. P disengaged mid delivery.

[@wyomingptt]

Don't people watch the video? They're not calling a balk because of the delivery, they called it (eventually) because of the jump and his foot coming off the rubber after he sets to throw. My guess is the umps originally thought the wind-up was the issue, then reversed the call (which would have been correct if this was just based on his throw), then Hurdle pointed out to them that it was the foot leaving the rubber that was the balk and they had to reverse it again.

[@beerussama7093]

I’m surprised the crowd caught it as well.

[@dosx]

First time I've seen a manager having its way with the umpires. Love how Hurdle screamed at the umpires to huddle. Lol

[@davej3781]

with balks my guideline is this: "the balk rule is to prevent the pitcher from unfairly deceiving the runners, NOT to give the offense free bases whenever the pitcher's mechanics are imperfect".

[@TPinesGold]

Dave J, I think your guideline makes sense and is supported by a guiding comment in the rule book. The other side of this is that the pitcher chose to wind up with runners on 2 and 3. The balk was probably elicited by the runner on 3rd taking advantage of the wind up and drawing attention to himself moving further down the line. The pitcher appears to have reacted by altering his delivery cadence and motion. This caused a break in his mechanics that is in violation of a rule. Clear balk. The pitcher needs to accept consequences of strategic choices and any mechanical errors that follow.

[@davej3781]

@@TPinesGold I think we agree. right in the middle there somewhere, umpire gotta umpire. I think the whole thing is fine but for that little hop with the pivot foot, that's what makes this a balk in the end...

[@matrixphijr]

Andy Green has such an appropriate middle name for this situation: Mulligan.

[@jakevandenberg4640]

Anybody else notice Charles Barkley in the front row at 4:32

[@smoothie33]

You make a call change the call then change the call again crazy

[@bbullard007]

Pitcher lost contact with the rubber after making his "rocker" move to home. That's a balk folks.

[@ObiWanKenobi]

Carter Capps always does this in his delivery so shouldn't all of his pitches be balks?

[@thegreenbean6777]

+Obi-Wan Kenobi Cuz he keeps his back foot on the mound during the delivery which is ruled legal

[@ObiWanKenobi]

Brandon Green that is true. I was watching Capps pitch and his toe drags on the mound after he hops.

[@RockstarFlipper]

^ correct

[@andrewlee8623]

that's not a balk I read the rule 8.01 and it says the pitcher and take a step back or forward while the delivery

[@michaelladerer8163]

+Andrew Lee He can with one foot, but the other foot has to maintain contact with the mound. When he jumped, his foot was not on the mound.

[@creepindeath30]

+Andrew Lee It's a balk. Per rule 6.02 Pitcher Illegal Action. (a) 8.05 under Balks. If there is a runner or runners, it is a balk when: (7) The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is not touching the pitcher’s plate. The video clearly shows during his normal delivery that his foot comes off the pitcher's plate.

[@ed3gaming329]

His foot came off the rubber resulting in a balk

[@TheBis83]

My beer belly tingles.......its a balk

[@prsguitars42]

LOL!!!!!!@!!!!

[@jacksonherr911]

@ 5:05 San Diego Padres Manager Andy Green Ejected

[@KJT922010T]

Crappy umpiring, It was a balk to start with, Once he hops on the mound that's a balk. They should've just stuck with the original call of a balk and continued the game.

[@jkrish4845]

+jeffg24LT21 yeah it is he jumped toward home

[@rick5ful]

No one cares what you think jeff since you don't even argue your cause why it isn't a balk. Ignorant child

[@jackjon7763]

jeffg24LT21 it's not a "dumb fucking rule" balks can screw over base runners and is unsafe for batters.

[@jackjon7763]

jeffg24LT21 and you still have yet to give a reason it wasn't a balk

[@lobster272]

If the umps had noticed he hopped off the mound the first time they wouldn't have reversed the call, but then Hurdle told them and somehow that was convincing enough for them to believe him. I don't know how none of the umps said "oh yeah his foot hopped off the rubber so it's a balk" the first time around.

[@ou812scott]

That's a balk

[@asleeposprey7479]

That's a fast pitch more then anything

[@HLGCeltic24]

In the end hey got the right call, but my goodness this was awful. The whole point of instant reply is to make sure you got the call right and (apparently) to speed up these types of things. With replay available, I think that as soon as the umpires make a call, like the balk they made in this case, they shouldn't have the authority to change it unless a team challenges it. But even that process has been pretty awful as theres been times where its taken 10 minutes just to see if a guy is safe or out on a bang bang play. Replay is good in theory but my god does it need an overhaul.

[@HLGCeltic24]

I also obviously commented before watching the whole thing, doesn't change my stance on replay. But umpires also have been pretty awful in years past.

[@alexivanov1602]

can someone tell me what happened? still new to baseball

[@EricLimasTPLEra77]

Watch Rea's right foot,that was the reason for the balk call.

[@prsguitars42]

Yea....after watching more closely, his pivot foot did disengage....i initially thought he balked for not coming to a ' complete and discernible' stop....

[@alanhess9306]

@@prsguitars42 He's pitching from the windup so no pause is required.

[@prsguitars42]

@@alanhess9306 My bad...but that was a balk, would you agree?

[@alanhess9306]

@@prsguitars42 Yeah, I would balk this.

[@prsguitars42]

@@alanhess9306 Yea....me too....really dont get how that level had an issue which ultimately pissed both h.c.s off...

[@beffjaker7477]

The fans were the first to notice.

[@crewkid52]

You know, the common denominator in a lot of these ejection videos is Brian Gorman. Dude needs to chill

[@hrbllc4206]

He gave him all the time in the world. Then told him twice to get going. He wanted to get ejected.

[@edphillips636]

Aren't all balks supposed to be conditional on intent? That is, I thought the rule says "...with the intent of deceiving the baserunner.." I'd like to see that clause reinforced, at least initially.

[@Arathor82]

Mcguire looks like he took a frying pan to the face.

[@dusthue]

I’m not an expert but I saw a pitch and pitcher hoped with the pitch

[@joshgilbert8981]

Then why isn't carter Capps pitches not balks?

[@DetTigers1094]

Capps' pitching motion is considered a balk, but with no runners on base, it's a legal motion, but with runners on base, you are right, it should be a balk. Rea, with McCutchen on third, was considered a balk because he didn't fully execute his windup, Rea's foot came off the rubber, and at all times, before releasing the ball, a pitcher has to stay in contact with the rubber until the ball leaves his hand.

[@alanhess9306]

@@DetTigers1094 No pitcher maintains contact with the rubber on his delivery, and there is no rule that says he must maintain contact. Resetting the pivot foot was why it was a balk.

[@alecmorris6092]

It's a correct call, the pitcher can't speed up his usual windup with runners on base. The problem here is that umpires looked unprofessional when you overturn something twice. But they got it right.

[@gaukarmadhouse]

You can speed up your stretch or windup you just can't remove your foot from the rubber and put it back down.

[@prsguitars42]

+Gavin Ryan Your partially correct.....

[@TyliteTony]

im sure andy green was mad that the eumpires changed their mind twice lol

[@commandershepard1838]

What about Johnny cueto? If there was a guy on third he could do his windup but he always changes his speed.

[@alanfast01]

Ever heard of a slide step?

[@Htown713southside]

So when managers and umpire argue, is there a lot of bad words involved?

[@dausxyooj5354]

I agree with George Sams

[@cwclynes]

that was awesome

[@swspartanhwk]

THAT WAS A HORRIBLE CALL IT WAS NOT A BALK. He continued and didnt stop

[@swspartanhwk]

The umpires in baseball suck

[@xstreamz1552]

It was a balk cause he lost contact with the rubber

[@WSchamps]

Can somebody explain to me exactly what a balk is?

[@DanielBirman]

When the pitcher starts their windup, stops, and either keeps going, or stops all together.

[@willrasmussen4743]

Rookie move

[@BettinaBalser]

That Andy Green is a real cutie.

[@masondebolt5730]

It's more of a quick pitch

[@alanhess9306]

That is not a quick pitch.

[@ilovebrandnewcarpets]

Tough call, but for me that IS a balk

[@solophentii3468]

I'd be mad too if I was part of the worst club in baseball and some sloppy ump kept pushing me down.

[@erikscherer22]

Man look at the stands there are more Pittsburgh fans there then San Diego fans. Pretty sad.....

[@andrewschulzsd]

Erik Scherer that's what happens with decades of mediocrity

[@marcussantamaria552]

carter capps?

[@hardatk27]

Totally a balk.

[@parttimehuman]

When did Ray Liotta start umpiring for the MLB?

[@laphonelouplor8804]

When challenging the umpires should talk to the commentators instead of the umpires in New York ( They talk to the umpires in New York because they're the best umpires in the league )

[@CaptainRon956]

That was bullshit. I didn't see the balk. He hopped as he went back but during the windup and forward delivery his foot was down. not a balk...

[@cramirez3855]

Colin Rea is an unconventional but at times devastating pitcher

[@TPinesGold]

The pitcher chose to wind up with runners on 2 and 3. The balk was probably elicited by the runner on 3rd taking advantage of wind up and drawing attention to himself moving further down the line. The pitcher appears to have reacted by altering his delivery cadence and motion. This caused a break in his mechanics that is in violation of a rule. The pitcher made a technique choice and, in effect, he tried to reverse his decision after he had already committed to it. Hmm ... did the umps do something like that? I find it ironic that the umpires are accused of incompetence, unprofessionalism, and even threatened with violence ... yet frequent fundamental mistakes made by players and coaches (like the mistake made by this pitcher) are rarely met with the same degree of criticism. If criticism and intolerance for imperfection were based on pay, then the umps are, relatively, much more competent than the players and coaches.

[@technobeast4250]

Their correct it is a balk that's a disengagement but with Capps it's ok he does it everytime so it's not a balk

[@alanhess9306]

+Techno beast Because you do it every time does not make it legal. If it violates a rule, a balk should be called every time.

[@technobeast4250]

no go read the rule book he does if a pitcher has a motion like if he shrugs when he comes set every time its part of his motion its legal but with him doing that it is a disengagement and a quick pitch

[@alanhess9306]

Techno beast, totally wrong. If a rule is violated, doing it every time does not make it legal. Show me in any rule book that says if he violates a rule every time it somehow becomes legal.

[@shewantsme5065]

I was at the game

[@1who4me]

TIL Mark McGuire is a coach for the Padres. Good for him :)

[@pdk65]

Why pitch in the windup with men on

[@wurm90125]

The definition of a balk is an attempt by the pitcher to deceive a base runner. Explain to me how that happened here? BS call.

[@greatamericanpanda5503]

+wurm90125 From the MLB Official Rule Book: Rule 6.02(a) (7) The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is not touching the pitcher’s plate;

[@jacobhosteter9377]

Have you ever seen Johnny Cueto do this?

[@jacksonherr911]

@ 5:02 Gets More Heated

[@jonleonard6948]

These are''PRO' umpires? what people make in a month, they make in one game.

[@RicardoKugo]

Im almost 100% sure that if you would sit there and try to umpire you would have to eject half the staff in the first inning cause all the arguing

[@RicardoKugo]

Not meant as an insult or anything but the job is realy fckin hard to do consistently right

[@Rowgue51]

Every pitcher breaks contact with the pitching rubber before release on every single pitch. If they're actually going to adhere to that being a balk then a balk has to be called on every single pitch.

[@gamerreact8722]

That's a balk Andy green

[@g.b.174]

Dear homer announcers, it was absolutely a balk. Just like interference is on the batter/runner and obstruction is on the defense. None of you can still get that easy call right. Gone are the days of Vin Scully who simply called it like it was.

[@jjhitm1]

Correct call but horrible officiating...call it, reverse it, then call it again, lol.

[@Pepe-gy8dk]

Not correct

[@jjhitm1]

Pepe Nah man, it was correct.

[@bggraham83]

was Luke Hillary Clinton....for gay rights...against gay rights. for gay rights....against gay rights...for. gay rights....against gay rights....

[@Shanard242]

+Yes Man not a basebalp fan can you help me understand it he diddnt look deceptive with his pitching

[@bl2809]

lol perfect case of the umpires having no clue what the hell they are doing

[@peterf.229]

TBH I hate clint hurdlle I think its a balk but if so Capps should be called for one every time since he does that dumb jump up to throw which is stupid and against the rules.

[@collinrichardson1184]

its called a slide step people

[@jkrish4845]

xXgodlyclutchXx no it isnt

[@ER-by5zp]

that game is being protested

[@seamus1956]

Esaam Rousan I doubt it, considering it happened last season.

[@cjr1881]

Of course you pick your foot up and replant it on the rubber in a windup.

[@kurzification]

He changed his normal pitching motion.. now if it was intentional or he got distracted and fucked up it doesn’t matter. .. poor all around

[@alanhess9306]

Changing your pitching motion is not a balk unless a rule is violated.

[@harrisonyates3283]

Umpires have been bad so far this season, like, worse than normal.

[@Jobuwins92]

they're getting up there in age.

[@Crichtonator1982]

Weird!

[@cristianrafael4120]

Hello hillary 💖💕💕😍

[@janeljustin6244]

NO PIRATES!?!????

[@frankwhite1895]

Who's the stick figure out there separating Green from the umpires??

[@akspoon4788]

Your mom

[@Talkinsports91]

You know it's bad in san Diego when the home crowd cheers the home team manager getting tossed lol

[@grandhusslemonster]

Home crowds always cheer when their manager gets ejected.

[@michaelladerer8163]

This is why Hurdle is a good manager. He knows the rules. He didn't scream and yell at the umps. He just made sure the umps enforced them.

[@jolynnusner2989]

Wow the umps call it a balk then doesn't,and calls it again.In the first place it wasn't. Do the umps even know what a balk is?A balk is where the pitcher is in motion and then turns to pick off someone.

[@TheSjuris]

The pitcher has to keep contact with the rubber while the ball is in his hand. He didn't hence the balk call.

[@brycebramble]

just watch Jonny cueto

[@maryrakers686]

Why was Andrew mcauccaun still on third

[@thephhoenixx]

they challenged the call at some point, so he had to go back and forth between home and third.

[@maryrakers686]

+iwillneverbepopular but when the batter was up

[@jasonpegram2114]

Yeah its a balk no its not a balk well yeah its a balk smh

[@taylorhoppe2589]

maangers have every right to argue a call and should not be ejected

[@baseball7590]

Not really, sometimes the calls can lead to some pretty angry, dangerous arguments that you cannot change

[@Kartracer6]

+Taylor Hoppe To a point. It appears the ump tells him that's enough go back and he continues to argue. He let him get what he had to say out after that you hold the risk of ejection.

[@mikecarr4178]

+Taylor Hoppe I suspect that in this case Green went out their with the intent of getting the umpires to change their minds (again) or be ejected. Hurdle was probably thinking the same thing when he went out, and was probably surprised that he won the argument.

[@aheller412]

i would be betraying my hometown if i agreed that this was a retarted call

[@henry2904]

+PittsburghSteelersYesCincyBengalsNo2016 love ur name

[@bggraham83]

#jomboy should do this one