Cutting Smash's Roster In Half But I'm Not A Coward

[@MockRockTalk]

Thanks for watching! I know this one's gonna be controversial because even as I'm writing this, all the early access comments already disagree with each other lol. I'll respond to some of the biggest arguments I see in the comments here: -Rosalina vs. Bowser Jr. was a bit of a toss up, but I think "Bowser and Bowser" is a little redundant if that makes sense, and Rosalina is the only true puppet character left after the cuts (Olimar doesn't really count). She has a VERY clear identity in Smash, whereas Jr.'s has always felt a little muddled. I do admit losing the Koopa Kids alongside him sucks though, there's a good case to be made for him entirely because of how well those work. -Cloud vs. Sora is one that I fully expected to see come up a lot, and look, take your spiky-haired anime boy of choice, I have no skin in the game here. -Raven Beak is realistically not viable compared to Sylux, although a) this video was recorded a few days before the Direct, and b) I still wish he was because he's so much cooler. -"You really cut all the Fire Emblem characters besides Marth" is being treated like something radioactive as if I haven't spent the last decade hearing complaints about how over-represented the series is lol. With the way Fire Emblem mechanics work there's nothing stopping you from adding a rotating hero that covers tons of cool, representative design space, while also keeping Marth both because he performs an important function in Smash and also represents the Fire Emblem legacy. -"You should have cut Jigglypuff." *No.* -"The Miis should have been condensed into a single fighter." This one I get the argument for, but Miis also perform a very important role by allowing a lot of characters into the series who couldn't become full-fledged fighters. I didn't talk about that element in the video too much, but it's a big one that wouldn't work very well if those characters were all forced into the same archetype. -"There's too much Gen 1 in the Pokemon rep." Yeah, probably, but that's kind of the nature of the beast when you have to get really reductionist. Lucario is one of the most iconic Gen 4 Pokemon, yes, but Mewtwo is one of _the_ most iconic Pokemon ever. Swapping them out to "spread the representation out more" just feels disingenuous, to name one of several examples. *Main channel:* kzbin.info *Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock *Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock *Twitch:* www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch *Teespring:* teespring.com/stores/mockrock *TimeBolt affiliate link* (excellent software I use to speed up editing on my videos, use code "MOCKROCK" for a discount): mockrock--timebolt.thrivecart.com/order-page/

[@MinnowTF]

You cut… your favourite smash character of all time… to save… Toon Link??? I bet the Kirby Discord got you in on what they were smoking

[@Team-Eclipse6024]

Considering how much you talk about reworking certain members of the cast. Have you ever considered making a video where you rank how much you want every member of the cast changed (i.e on a tierlist on mockrock talk or something). Just asking since I have considered doing this myself (though not as a video) Big Fan anyway.

[@MockRockTalk]

@@Team-Eclipse6024 Absolutely, this has actually been on my ideas document for a while!

[@DreamAngelYt]

You could've kept 1 MII instead of all 3 instead of cutting Ike and Falco

[@3DOM_]

@@DreamAngelYtdid you read the comment?

[@PhazoGanon]

So hey, I'm the one who made that Jigglypuff rework, and not only did I just change Jigglypuff, I changed a lot more characters to generally be more faithful to their original incarnations

[@marcotanooky9651]

Youare awesome

[@The_Trident_Master]

Did you base her design off of delthezin’s video?

[@PhazoGanon]

@@The_Trident_Master No, it was made well before then

[@The_Trident_Master]

@@PhazoGanon Interesting. His video had several similar ideas

[@SunnySixStreet]

Doing the lord’s work😌✨

[@jmurray1110]

Mii fighters were made mainstays when Nintendo learned they could sell costumes

[@vocalcalibration8033]

I'd buy more costumes for actual characters.

[@jmurray1110]

But they don’t only miis

[@MrGameguyC]

Yee. Though you don't need to keep all 3 of them to do so :d

[@FlatlandsSurvivor]

The only "cut" there I could see is merging the Miis, but expanding the customization of that character to still act as sword, gun, or brawler.

[@AWESOMEvance]

I'd say cut them and make costumes for regular characters, but then you'd have less psuedo representation. I didn't think about this angle.

[@go4cyclone]

Surprised that Rosalina didn't end up as the last cut over Ike. I get she's a big name in Mario now but the greater Mario franchise makes up a literal fifth of this roster and it doesn't need every single one of those.

[@Nozo1234]

I feel similar but for Diddy kong, I think he was the obvious choice to get the boot

[@cuttsthecat6331]

@@Nozo1234 I can at least understand Diddy on the basis that he's a lot more important to his franchise than Rosalina is to hers. Plus, DK has a lot less characters than Mario does already; getting rid of Diddy would remove half of what's left of DK representation while removing Rosa would still leave us with the four most important Mario characters

[@iantaakalla8180]

Furthermore, Rosalina may be a part of common Mario characters, but she has now been relegated to the spin-off space like Waluigi will always be in, and in terms of exploring her side of the galaxies we are never getting another significant story in space again, which means that while Rosalina is part of Mario’s common roster she is now entirely like Waluigi.

[@TheUnknownsShow]

As a Rosa main, I always expect to see people cutting her in these kinds of videos. It's very clear that Rosalina isn't in the game because she's super important to Super Mario, but rather because they wanted to make a character with her puppet master playstyle and figured she'd be good for that role. I'm biased, but I think Rosalina should remain purely because there's no other character in the game who plays like her at all. Ice Climbers and Olimar who she gets compared to aren't really the same design philosophy. A bunch of heavies basically play the same, a bunch of swordies basically play the same, a bunch of projectile zoners basically play the same, but no other fighter plays like Rosalina.

[@nutnut6161]

@@Nozo1234Diddy and Donkey Kong run the DK franchise hand in hand lol

[@justinn8541akaDrPokemon]

Here is a compromise for ""Ganondorf" should stay" people. We first cut "Ganondorf", then we introduce actual Ganondorf

[@bageltime8983]

"I take away your candy,then tomorrow I give you the same candy but better" Sounds good to me 👍

[@justinn8541akaDrPokemon]

@@bageltime8983 That's false. It's more like replacing a rip-off of a different candy, and give you the candy you actually want.

[@oneovertwo1186]

The Pig form Ganon character idea, right?

[@brycebitetti1402]

​@oneovertwo1186 Not likely. Ganondorf has been the main threat in a good chunk of 3D Zelda titles, which have proven themselves to be the more popular branch of the series. Tears of the Kingdom, Twilight Princess, and Ocarina of Time alone account for three of the four best-selling games in the series, and he's the main villain in all three.

[@gavinrak2692]

​@@oneovertwo1186pig gannon just doesnt really have enough to make a good moveset imo. Also gannondorf is a much cooler pick imo (and relevant)

[@Driff97]

I'd argue the main reason why the Miis will stay regardless of what literally anyone says, is because to Nintendo, they're money printing machines.

[@Luigidreamteamfan]

I don’t think they see miis as that anymore. When was the last Mii game we got?

[@LG555]

​@@Luigidreamteamfanhe means in Smash with their costumes.

[@FSSmash]

​@@LG555SANS, doomguy, and some other popular mii costumes make decent mones

[@user-jw2it4qf2r]

@@FSSmash Might be able to argue that Miis being the de facto customization characters is holding Smash back in cosmetic DLC because every interesting costume gets thrown at them when Nintendo could be selling a Sans costume for Ness and print money on the memes alone

[@metawarp7446]

@@user-jw2it4qf2rGreat idea... let's bee honest Nintendo wouldn't do that, it makes too much sense

[@Glory2Snowstar]

"Cutting Piranha Plant without being a coward" You shall die braver than most.

[@lightmodesupremacy7321]

And now, young skywalker. You will die.

[@campthemvp]

MOCKROCK! IT’S A TRAP! SMASH FANS JUST WANT TO GET ANGRY WHEN YOU INEVITABLY CUT A CHARACTER THEY LIKE! MOCKROOOOOOOOCK!

[@mrmediocre848]

Even though it's a thought experiment which likely has zero real world implications...

[@sting1167]

Mock rock cut me off on the interstate! How dare he! Grrrrrrr!

[@ashen_roses]

I'm a Flaming Emblem fan, I'm used to it.

[@FishBoy9364]

Correct. Wth, Mockrock. What did my bois K. Rool and Rizzley do to you.

[@thewanderingchelmet]

I'm glad Olimar and Shulk stay, but that min min cut was brutal, any arms fans are super sad rn

[@worldscoolestperson7672]

Using Banjo’s uninspired moveset as a reason to axe them feels weird when you already kept so many characters with the excuse of “well they can just fix their moveset next time”.

[@X2011racer]

A better reason would be, "Who knows if Phil Spencer would still be in Xbox Game Studios by then?" If it weren't for him, Banjo & Kazooie and Steve wouldn't make it in. Right now, Spencer is under fire for a lot of errors Microsoft has made for the Xbox Series consoles. Rushed launch titles, closing down studios because of a gigantic purchase, screwing over Toys for Bob, and releasing games outside Xbox, just to name a few. Chances are that once he steps down or gets voted out by no confidence, his replacement could undo his actions and rekindle the flames of rivalry to both Sony and Nintendo like in the 2000s. We'll likely never see Banjo or Steve ever again.

[@TempestNouzen]

Tbf it’s the mix of an uninspired moveset with the fact that Banjo is a legacy character without much relevance at this point.

[@theurbanreanimator7244]

​@@TempestNouzenNess

[@Volvagia1927]

@@theurbanreanimator7244 Ness at least has the "you can't cut the original 12" factor (see also: Jigglypuff and, sadly, Fox if we're being quite honest) backing him up.

[@Random_User666]

To be fair the problem with Banjo & Kazooie is not their moveset itself more so that their playstyle is an incohesive mess

[@silvergalaxia8538]

The only thing that really baffled me was cutting bowser junior over rosalina. Jr has been a consistent villain in many mainline mario games, while rosalina was important only in galaxy 1 and has since been relegated to spinoffs like the kart and party series. Plus junior also comes with the koopalings which are even more classic to nintendo history.

[@triple_kale9332]

I was thinking the same thing, him and especially daisy are becoming more prevalent in the recent releases and they're much more recognizable and fan favorite picks imo

[@blocks4857]

Rosalina has a more unique playstyle than Junior and has more fans

[@Lexicon865]

Most people do this and it's insane to me because Junior is a far more popular and relevant character than Rosalina in the series, and has more opportunity to have his moveset improved than Rosalina because what can you even do for her that feels both fun AND accurate to her source material?

[@blocks4857]

@Lexicon865 I doubt Jr is more popular than Rosa

[@Lexicon865]

@@blocks4857 I mean maybe not as much of a fan fav but he's certainly far more relevant now. Same goes for Daisy, who I'd rather keep and have her moveset reworked esp with Wonder out over keeping Rosalina

[@dabiskitt]

Me watching another “cutting half the roster” video knowing damn well my main is about to be cut:

[@toadboy4]

Always happens to me, though I thought Ike would survive this time, he isn’t my main but he’s one of my secondaries Bayonetta is the only character I play often that lived here

[@Breeze926]

Me watching every "cutting the roster in half" video knowing I won't be able to play Lucario in the next game.

[@supermario-kt6df]

I'm a Ganon main. I at least kept my main.

[@hoglin7]

R.I.P. ROB o7

[@alexbluer]

I am worried to im a mario main i shiver when i see this kind of videos

[@zacpadilla2432]

I appreciate you didn’t approach the 3rd parties from a “it might be rough for Nintendo to work out a deal with them”, cause realistically, after the Switch’s success, Nintendo shouldn’t have too much trouble working out licenses. And that reasoning in cut videos just makes it lame to cut them for that alone.

[@MrAnimason]

I think you underestimate how stingy companies can be with their character IPs. Even if they could make money out of licensing it.

[@grimsdol4665]

​@MrAnimason Actually I do think he brings up a great point, because one of the main reasons why a company might give someone the rights to a character is to hopefully boost sales of the I.P and there's few better ways then having them show up in Smash. I Imagine Persona 5 sales jumped by 30% when joker was added and that's all the proof you'd need to change a stingy companies mind

[@sonicrunn3r895]

@@grimsdol4665 That being said, we do have cases like Square Enix. I imagine they MIGHT be less stingy nowadays if Ultimate was made slightly later, but especially in basegame Ultimate they did NOT want anything more than the bare minimum in the game. And especially given Hero and Sephiroth only brought a handful of things (Sora as well but that's also Disney as well as Square so I'm not counting it), I don't know if they'd be on board. That said SNK, Sega, Bandai Namco and Microsoft are like “definitely” cases of getting them back. SNK especially was staggering with the amount of songs alone, so I see it pretty likely they'd be easy to work with. Sega has done a lot of partnership with Nintendo, and I don’t doubt they're fine to keep Sonic in the game (pls with remixes next time). Bandai Namco literally developed Smash 4 and Ultimate, and then Microsoft is a case like Sega where they're pretty chill with Nintendo.

[@brandonwilliams6119]

In Capcom’s case if they had to choose 1 between keeping Ryu and Megaman they’re definitely keeping Ryu, they might also push for a Monster Hunter and Resident Evil rep over Megaman. Honestly it feels like we’re at that point before Megaman even got in Smash, sure we got MM11 in 2018 but 6 years later and still no new announcement of a new game in the works like I don’t know a Megaman 12? X9? Or Legends 3? They had good momentum with 11 but didn’t continue with another new game, and it’s funny how Sega puts out more for Sonic can Capcom can for Megaman.

[@dysr]

@@sonicrunn3r895I’d imagine Konami would be pretty easy to work with too. They’ve been pretty generous with their IPs with things like just how much Castlevania content there is in Ultimate and the Dead Cells crossover, in addition to currently trying to rebuild customer goodwill while reviving the Metal Gear and Silent Hill series.

[@koifish9388]

Not bad choices. I would have cut 2 of the 3 Mii's tho. Combine them into 1 so that picking your moveset is actually picking your weapon, then you can keep Falco and Ike (Even tho I'd not be sad to see them go)

[@Qwuxa]

That actually sounds good

[@orpheus9098]

Mii fighter mains are at the level of confidence I want to have, because they see about 80 characters and decide "Nah, I'm cooler than all of these guys"

[@matumcwrap]

they prefer killing at 80

[@dagoodboy6424]

I think so i like seeing myself

[@thesecondtonysoprano]

W pfp

[@matumcwrap]

@@thesecondtonysoprano mine's better

[@hedgehugs]

most Mii fighter mains don't even use the Mii's to be themselves, it's usually Sans or a meme character.

[@S80570]

People like to forget that the only reason Ice Climbers were cut previously was due to the technical limitations of the 3DS.

[@HIIMROSS777]

This is true but after bringing them back barely anyone plays them and if you are gonna get the roster in half you need to get rid of a lot of the old retro characters especially ones from dead franchises with 0 relevance anymore.

[@lasercraft32]

Cutting Ridley (one of Metroid's most iconic characters, who's been fan requested for years) and replacing him with a guy that appeared in _one game_ makes zero sense at all.

[@pengoschwortz4734]

Literally 😭

[@oakijak7387]

The Ridley cut is genuinely insane, I think most franchises should be protagonist and antagonist at least. Smash is already lacking in the villain department

[@Lexicon865]

Both Ridley and Raven Beak should be there. Dark Samus can go if needed and Zero Suit definitely has to go

[@Magic_Ice]

I get that, but honestly it really feels like the team didn’t want to add in Ridley and only did to make the fans happy. Honestly I can see Raven Beak or Sylux getting in the next game and have Ridley be a boss again.

[@saratoga6663]

Keeping rosalina because he has the hots for her over Mr game and watch an incredibly important part of nintendos history and a big reason to why the continued to make handhelds is insane

[@VCosmoz]

> I'm not a coward > Doesn't cut Puff ok

[@Mike-di3mo]

Does that really make him a coward? He didn't even list the other reasons why puff should stay in.

[@spiderzsonic6581]

He say that is imposible since is one of the 12 original, i mean, was almost cut in brawl and wiiu but no

[@Mike-di3mo]

@@spiderzsonic6581 puff wasn't almost cut in wii u

[@yjcentrion1159]

he also kept toon link

[@RejoyousMelissa]

Literally everyone cuts Jigglypuff, but realistically Smash wouldn’t through virtue of being one of the original 12. It’s weird not to say this about Capitan Falcon too, but Smash wouldn’t cut him either because he’s too iconic to Smash Bros.

[@ivrydice0954]

Mockrock forgot to put Rosalina's section in the video and yet still acts like we'd miss her if we had to give her the boot.

[@beefyblom]

I would :(

[@chatthisiscrazy3]

Same, but I could understand if they booted her out.

[@ShallBePurified]

If you really weren't a coward, you would've cut Jigglypuff.

[@Mike-di3mo]

I've seen so many comments like this and this pretty much shows he wasn't a coward.

[@ShallBePurified]

@@Mike-di3mo Damn, I thought I was being original. :( But for real though, if we wanted a proper fairy-type rep, there are more interesting Pokemon than Jigglypuff.

[@z-dawggog53]

I think the ideal scenario for the miis with cutting half the roster would be fusing all three into one mii that has one special from each mii in each slot this would also make the miis a lot more unique as characters since the specials who are clones if other moves can be cut out

[@Disheartthorn]

I agree with fusing them into one, but I don't agree with having 1 special from each mii to be included in the game. Based on your wording the developers would have to chose 1 move from each slot to include in the next game, which sounds risking including a move that nobody likes with replacing a move that people like to use.

[@HIIMROSS777]

Yeah I doubt the next Nintendo console even has miis to begin with, they will probably rework into a new sort of avatar system, a custom character is definitely happening in Ultimate but they are probably gonna follow other fighting games and make it 1 character with lots of customization options and it will be banned in competitive play/relegated to its own gamemode like they do in games such as SF6.

[@andymcclurg9916]

"I'm not a coward" "We're keeping the original 12"

[@Mike-di3mo]

Yeah he didn't cut falcon lol

[@OGEdger]

​@@Mike-di3mo Falcon is pretty much the _essence_ of Smash. He's THE OG since it seems like his moveset was directly taken from the Dragon King tech demo that would eventually become Smash Bros.

[@biohazardbin]

@@OGEdger 🥱cut.

[@andymcclurg9916]

@@Mike-di3mo Not who I meant. Cut Falcon and Nintendo HQ gets burnt to the ground. I'm talking Jiggs, Ness, Yoshi, maybe Samus

[@Mike-di3mo]

@@andymcclurg9916 I'm still cutting falcon because he is way to overrated and I main puff :) but yoshi how dare you >:( I will cut everything related to f zero before I cut the next character on the chopping Blox which would be puff Ness or fox but that my opinion

[@WhyYouWahYoo]

This is actually way more agreeable to me than most other lists I’ve watched like this. In particular, cutting most of the “retro throwback” picks cleared up so much more room than most allow because they feel obligated to keep Game and Watch or Little Mac or ROB and then end up making ASININE cuts like Diddy Kong or Ness. My one complaint is that keeping Sora and cutting Cloud feels extremely weird to me. I think Cloud, while he is the protagonist of one game, is the clear Final Fantasy character who deserves to be in Smash most, and that series being completely cut while Kingdom Hearts stays feels weird considering KH is practically a spin off of FF. Then again, Persona is represented without any Shin Megami Tensei in the roster, so maybe I’m just being silly

[@reflectiveditto]

On the Cloud and Sora thing- I think there's also the argument of relation to Nintendo, even though that's mattered much less for Ultimate DLC. FF7 is where the series moved away from Nintendo systems, whereas KH has had a presence on Nintendo handhelds since Chain of Memories, with four other entries being made specifically for Nintendo stuff (yeah Days didn't star Sora and Re:coded was a remake/reimagining of a phone game but still). Cloud is still enough of an icon to deserve a spot, but if we're cutting as many characters as we are, then I think it's a reasonable factor to draw the line.

[@certifiedtrash3152]

Honestly at least personally I'd keep sepharoth and rather than keep cloud just include a rep from a different final fantasy instead as a compromise

[@jonathanlgill]

I have always thought the FF character who deserves to be in Smash is one who actually starred on a Nintendo console, even though those FF games aren't as popular as the more modern ones. Terra or Cecil would allow for some transform mechanics that have been lost with Aegis.

[@certifiedtrash3152]

@@jonathanlgill maybe but I wouldn't mind a newer charicrer either

[@eugger3011]

Especially since Kingdom Hearts is supposed to be a series based on Final Fantasy. So to have the character of what's essentially a spinoff franchise, but not a character from the actual franchise itself is weird to me.

[@mroms25]

All I can say is thank god you arent in charge.

[@KuvaChakkhurr]

I personally disagree with cutting Cloud OR Sephiroth, but keeping Sora which is from a sort of Final Fantasy Spinoff. Final Fantasy 7 is one of the biggest games ever made, unlike the rest of the franchise, not only that but Cloud's addition in 4 essentially opened the gates for anyone to be added, so he is pretty important to Smash itself aswell.

[@blocks4857]

That's only true if you ignore Sonic and Snake

[@TheRedCap30]

I disagree with that last point, Snake will always hold that title no matter how many people try to spin it.

[@jak199527]

@@TheRedCap30yeah, snake is by far the best candidate for "they can add anyone." Sonic was a big argument because he was a direct competitor, but snake had no business being in smash. Didn't vibe with the rest of the cast at all and I loved it.

[@hiddenpowerfairy]

sora is the most requested smash character in history btw

[@gormflaith2326]

I feel like even tho FF7 is super iconic, Dragon Quest and Kingdom Hearts make for really strong and recognisable Square reps already. The moveset potential with Sora and Hero is just way larger than at least with Cloud (and I feel like you can't have Sephiroth without him so...)

[@axolofa]

Rosalina getting kept over Cloud and Ike is criminal

[@benross9174]

Rosa is the ONLY full on puppet character in Smash. Which is already a rare archetype in fighting games. Ike and Cloud or both just swordies gameplay wise. Keeping Rosa means more archetypes/playstyles are in the game

[@kicksyo2171]

I'm fine with him keeping Rosalina, but I wish he had kept Daisy considering that literally she's one of the core members of the Mario party and cart racing universe.

[@gavinrak2692]

That's what I thought too

[@gavinrak2692]

​@kicksyo2171 she could just be an alt. All the echos should just become alts

[@kicksyo2171]

@@gavinrak2692 I really want her to be your own character, but that would at least be better than cutting her entirely. We'll have to wait and see.

[@Salnax]

"But I'm Not A Coward" Proceeds to save Jigglypuff and throw out 7 of Fire Emblem's 8 reps.

[@benisign]

Smash is a popularity contest and when it comes to the 30 something smashtuber scene they just don't like rpgs and play a lot of vanilla stuff so it makes sense in the space these people inhabit to keep puff and cut byleth despite three houses moving millions of copies just like xenoblade yet he kept two dk reps despite diddy last appearing in 2015 on the wiiu

[@Salnax]

@@benisign I don't even mind a KZbinr's personal biases coming into account for a project like this. It's just the juxtaposition between announcing one's bravery while taking a popular stance is hilarious.

[@benisign]

@@Salnax People covet the respect of controversy so they end up being safe edgy by doing one shocking thing then walking it back or softening the blow with something that is popular in order to still be accepted while appearing controversial. Or at least that's the only explanation that makes sense to me. I can safely say that my picks would be a lot more controversial though since I'd get rid of a lot of the og 12 since the whole thing is dumb to me

[@Salnax]

@@benisign I'd get rid of every 3rd party rep and Jigglypuff and KEEP Duck Hunt and Wii Fit Trainer. I'm not expecting ANYONE to approve of my choices.

[@Mike-di3mo]

​@@Salnaxwhy specifically jigglypuff falcon and Ness are still more irrelevant and puff extremely recognizable also cutting puff over all the FE reps is insane atleast cut like half them lol

[@Traveler_of_the_Stars]

I don't think cutting Ridley, King K. Rool, Banjo & Kazooie, and Cloud make sense considering how popular of requests they were. That just doesn’t make sense, especially because three of those were specifically mentioned by Sakurai to have done popular on the Smash Ballot. I think the glaring choices remaining were Toon Link and Rosalina & Luma. The former was especially odd when you cut Ike to keep him in. As for the latter, she's a popular character overall, but with Mario already having a healthy number of characters, I don't think the "puppet fighter" boon is enough of a justification. Also, why *not* have Animal Crossing have two characters? It's certainly big enough to. Heck, it could even get a third.

[@biohazardbin]

✋NO MORE ANIMAL CROSSING, IT IS NOT THAT GOOD OF A GAME. IT IS FOR FEMALE WOMEN AND 3 YEAR OLDS. ONE MUST GO. ✋

[@pks1587]

​@@biohazardbinBait used to be believable

[@iponce2]

​@@biohazardbin>female women Got me good

[@FalcoVille]

Was fully prepared for Falco to get the axe towards the end. I'm blaming the Wii U, and it's actually making me feel better.

[@SadToffee]

new falco aint falco anyways.

[@Magic_Ice]

@@SadToffeeyeah old falco was a skinwalker

[@SadToffee]

@@Magic_Ice nah old falco was da bird. new falco is just wack.

[@magicfish8213]

​@@Magic_Iceh a n d s o f f m y p r e y

[@rusk3986]

Cut Falco keep Wolf I want more villains. You don’t get how excited my little cousins get 2 or 3v1ing my bad guy characters. It’s still a game for kids too.

[@CiderVG]

"Not a coward" *doesn't cut Jigglypuff*

[@Mike-di3mo]

You mean captain falcon

[@SleepyLuigi]

THANK YOU for doing it right. I’m still mad you cut like… everyone I’ve ever mained though. [G&W, Junior, Duck Hunt, K Rool and Piranha Plant]

[@Sean_Bird]

Cutting all the Fire Emblem characters but Marth… yeah, I don’t think that would fly. I especially don’t see Alear making up for losing everyone else considering the divided thoughts on their game overall, nor would the prospect of a character nobody knows anything about yet. I feel like at least Byleth needs to stay especially, considering Three Houses is still one of the popular entries in the series and is the highest selling. I also don’t agree with dropping basically every first-party retro rep, I think at least Game & Watch and ROB should stay considering their history with Nintendo. Considering the nature of this type of video, there are bound to be various opinions, these are just my thoughts on the matter.

[@crystalpokedude4329]

Smash fans just want to completely sabotage the relationship between Intelligent Systems and Nintendo with videos like this.

[@theillusionist1494]

Who would you cut instead, out of curiosity?

[@pacmax4454]

@@theillusionist1494toon link, Rosalina, Miis, jigglypuff

[@Sean_Bird]

@@theillusionist1494 If going off of MockRock’s roster specifically, I’d at least probably drop the all of the Miis, Rosalina, Toon Link and Mewtwo for Byleth, Ike, Game & Watch, R.O.B., Ridley, and Lucario. I might have to try the full “halving the roster” thing myself if I have the time.

[@biohazardbin]

@@Sean_Bird Fuck off, why the fuck would you cut Mewtwo for BYLETH of all people?

[@kwagar9810]

Cutting almost all the fire emblem cast but keeping Toon Link is CRAZY

[@glauciarochelle]

its better did cut toon link and stay with young link

[@aidan2226]

Average smash player

[@Sylvainjose-satoyumiyato]

Yeah, they just hate FE for no reason 😭

[@Irish_Enderman]

No it isn't

[@readtherules7101]

@@Irish_Endermanit is when there’s 4 Zelda characters on the list but only 1 from FE

[@yjcentrion1159]

“Gotta be harsh” *keeps toon link*

[@aggressivelymediocre350]

You say you’re not being a coward about it but Echo Fighters being counted is the most cowardly. Go back and cut 4 more real characters

[@BigStrap]

If they don't count towards cuts, they shouldn't count towards the total either.

[@aggressivelymediocre350]

@@BigStrap Sora is fighter 82. -3 for Pokémon trainer and Mythra gets you 79 characters. +7 for echoes is 86. 86/2 = 43 which is how many he cut, including 7 echoes which means 36 real characters were cut. No echoes: 79, let’s be generous and say 78/2 = 39. So I did in fact do my math wrong and it should be 3 and not 4 more for a no echoes count

[@jtwk3400]

You can say that he was a coward for that but he kept all 3 Mii fighters which are some that are 3 easy cuts for most people. It balances out

[@Lilybutterfly57]

Echo fighters give more series representation, different looks and personalities, and some give different play styles. I’m not saying echo fighters are completely different characters from their original, but they are still important in smash brothers. Also if you cut one character, you would cut the other, you cut Ryu you cut Ken, you cut Roy you cut Chrom. Finally, it gives more content. So counting echo fighters is valid.

[@Zieoajcjcjwid]

​@@jtwk3400they make too much money through costumes to be cut

[@lasercraft32]

In my opinion, I think Echo Fighters should not count when splitting the roster in half. The entire purpose of Echo Fighters is to be extremely easy to implement clones of already existing characters, so it would take little to know actual effort to include them if they were to reset the roster. (and yes, I'm aware you mention this in the video)

[@HOLDENPOPE]

personally, if they bring the echoes back, I'd rather see them decloned or at least made into semi-clones. imagine Dark Samus using attacks like the ones she uses in Prime, attacks that poison people, imagine Daisy using sports and competition-themed moves. Imagine Ganondorf finally fighting like himself. These fighters have enough potential that I usually rather see them get reworked in Fan Smash Rosters than cut.

[@bwaterfall11]

@@HOLDENPOPE well Daisy could easily be a semi clone using some things from wonder/spinoffs, plus Nintendo is clearly trying to make a core 6 with Mario,luigi,peach,daisy,toad and Yoshi so keeping her would make sense

[@hankboog462]

If all the echoes were about as unique as ken or even just chrom we'd be ballin

[@jonathanlgill]

The real fearless answer is to say that the "original 12" doesn't mean anything. Gen 1 of Pokemon has tons of representation in Smash, and Jigglypuff contributes significantly less to what is being represented. She's not a core part of the franchise, she was just a joke character on the N64. Cut!

[@Mike-di3mo]

It was only a joke in 64 and it's still a extremely iconic and recognizable pokemon. Keep!

[@crystalpokedude4329]

@@jonathanlgill bro used the "They've been cut before, they can be cut again" logic to justify cutting Ice Climbers, but ignores that Puff was almost cut in Brawl.

[@icecontrol1]

@@Mike-di3mo She literally stopped being recognizable to most

[@Mike-di3mo]

@@crystalpokedude4329 but was puff cut? No

[@Mike-di3mo]

@@icecontrol1 ?

[@Blackacre438]

14:31 playing Fodlan winds after cutting Byleth is MEAN

[@DoritoTime]

You cut Falco when MARIO was sitting right there?!?!?

[@CuteRedPanda64]

Falco is a echo fighter of Fox

[@leounlimited3417]

Great list! I consistently appreciate your level-headed approach to what a character brings to the table as a whole. A few things I'd tweak for my own list: You mention cutting Robin because Smash has "other magic swordfighters", but then we lost Cloud, Corrin, Aegis, and Sephiroth... And while Sora is very much a magic swordfighter, I'd still personally swap back in Robin (for early/middle/present Fire Emblem representation) and remove Rosalina. Good character, important to Mario, but I don't consider her untouchable like the other core Mario characters are. Plus you can sort of argue that Olimar can do the puppet fighter thing, albeit differently. I just think you lose so much in terms of Fire Emblem itself's representation in Smash if you lose the character that actually uses Fire Emblem mechanics. You didn't mention splitting apart the Miis, but I would be okay with losing Mii Swordfighter. Plenty of other more interesting swordfighters, and having two custom characters is still more than most platform fighters can brag about. I'd add back Ken, who is a very important fighter, and even though you cut him early, I think he means so much to fighting games that I'd choose a similar playstyle to Ryu over a completely different playstyle (like Rosa). But still really reasonable! If this was the next Smash roster, I wouldn't be crying. Core 12 getting immunity is unfair but Smash is unfair (cries in Ganondorf)

[@adriahrin3284]

not only that but having no characters of the game that made it possible for fire emblem to continue existing feels wrong, and out of the three characters from that game robin is the one that should stay the most (also, no byleth either? the character from the game with most sales from fire emblem?!)

[@benross9174]

I dont think Olimar counts as a puppet fighter. You dont really control the Pikmin induvidually (except I guess whiste and even then). Its more just hurtboxes he throws/uses as disjoints. Rosa+Luma is THE puppet fighter in Smash; with the closest second one being Ice climbers. And even then Nana is AI. Luma is 100% controllable by the Rosalina player

[@benross9174]

@@adriahrin3284Yeah Robin is actually the character you the player actually play as, a lot people forget about that. Robin is like Awakenings Byleth kinda

[@nazukah2861]

Lowkey id cut both Gunner and Swordfighter, keep Brawler as they at least have some sort of iconic status with fistfighting (Wii Sports Boxing) but in this scenario, i think you can grt away with only 1 Mii

[@ariwl1]

@@adriahrin3284 I'd miss Lucina but yeah Robin is the character if Awakening would have a rep at all. I think Byleth has also distinguished themselves enough to have a more secure spot. Though I do see his argument for each new Smash having a sort of rotating guest character for the most recent game. Much as I enjoyed Engage though it didn't exactly set the world on fire so I wouldn't be surprised if they skipped it. Though with the ring mechanic Alear could make for an interesting stance character. Hmm...

[@budybas]

Find it funny how even after half the roster is gone Pokémon still finds a way to have 6* characters.

[@thrift272]

true but it makes sense

[@CyclonSilver]

Sweet, here's my monthly "why I'm cutting 6 to 7 Fire Emblem characters" video, oh joy ! All joking aside, it almost didn't hurt that time, you're pretty good at this stuff, Mock !

[@ashen_roses]

I mean he didn't call all their fans weebs and queers, it's a step up from the usual malevolence Smashers have towards said series.

[@adriahrin3284]

@@ashen_roses i've personally never heared fire emblem fans called queers, and it's literally the stupidest insult someone could make, since there's almost no queer stuff in fire emblem games, off the top of my head i can think of three things queer related in fire emblem, so there's not much there go for

[@ashen_roses]

@@adriahrin3284 you'd think, and yet

[@christopherjobin-official7440]

​@@adriahrin3284You will not believe the amount of times this has happened-

[@hi-i-am-atan]

@@adriahrin3284 the context you're missing due to your youth is that "queer" as an insult is the exact same as "gay" as an insult which is to say, it's for when someone wants to insult you by calling you feminine ( derogatory ), but also imply you're a degenerate. because, y'know. homophobia

[@ItsNoelleNow]

The drama leading up to cutting Ike, who is my least favorite FE protag in the franchise and one of my least favorite Smash characters ever, had me cheering in the end like I was watching my favorite sport ball team win "the big game" or something.

[@leafmotifs681]

Gameplay reasons aside, I can’t comprehend keeping Rosalina (a two-off character that has been relegated to spin-off roster filler) or toon link over either Kazuya or Terry. Relegating an entire genre of sub genres into one character (Ryu) and one which smash exists as a subset of seems a bit silly. Also I don’t see how Sora would be worth keeping over Cloud.

[@TRQDude]

Mainline Mario and Zelda characters deserve the dumpster more than offbrand Street Fighter clones?

[@leafmotifs681]

@@TRQDude “Tekken is just off brand SF” You aren’t beating the “I have never played a video game except for smash bros” allegations with that one. I don’t know why you would even reply when you so obviously do not know what you are talking about

[@gavinrak2692]

​@@TRQDudeYou've definitely only played smash as a "fighting game"

[@gavinrak2692]

​@@leafmotifs681exactly 😂

[@novameowww]

@@TRQDude this is supposed to be bait right

[@benross9174]

Bonus comment: not keeping Terry I would disagree strongly with as KoF is a big reason we have smash to begin with. Full hops, short hops, spot dodge, dashing, taunting in a match, THE INVITATION WITH THE LETTER. All directly inspired from King of Fighters/FF

[@paulakroy2635]

Umvc3 is responsible for a lot of ultimates design

[@benross9174]

@@paulakroy2635 Not nearly to the same extent as KoF. Sakurai got inspired to make a fighting game thats easy to learn when he crushed a beginner at KoF. Thats a big part of the orgin of Smash

[@novameowww]

ultimate literally introduced KOF mode too, being squad strike side note: the invitation is just based on how letters look in japan. but yeah if pit gets to be in because of sakurai favoritism terry definitely should

[@benross9174]

@@novameowww yeah tbh on further introspection I think the reason Smash uses the letter is cause you get mail in Animal Crossing and Villager was the first announced charcter in Smash 4

[@novameowww]

@@benross9174 really, it wasn't that much of a thing at all until isabelle's trailer, and even then it still wasn't that much of a thing until joker's trailer, at which point everyone pretended they had been doing it since the beginning even though they kind of haven't

[@maornelas183]

Bro literally cut every character I play... I can't blame him but damn it hurt (I play Incineroar, Joker, Pichu, and Cloud)

[@scimitaronic]

I, as a ridley main, do not appreciate this undeserved slander. He is by far one of the most well-known antagonists in metroid history. He is quite literally the bowser to Samus and removing him would just feel wrong.

[@meganintenbro]

Yea for as cool ravenbeak is Ridley has legacy. I also think MockRock is pretty harsh on his move set design, stuff like his neutral b being taken right from Metroid on the NES feels so right to me. The only moves I really get the hate for is his down air, and his up special is too restrictive.

[@scimitaronic]

@meganintenbro Yeah, why did they not give him his tail stsb for dair? Like that was the most basic reference they could do.

[@minixlemonade2335]

One of? Give bro some street cred, he is THE MOST well known antagonist.

[@scimitaronic]

@minixlemonade2335 there is kraid and the metroids.

[@TheSpaceking12]

This roster sucks ass and I'm glad you aren't in charge of picking the characters.

[@clashman7564]

Edgelord.

[@bingoviini]

He really said that a bird is cooler than Ridley... Well, more power to him, even if he is just objectively wrong

[@iantaakalla8180]

But is Ridley even that cool to play? The answer is no. He plays like a heavyweight with random heavyweight move and menace that does not land.

[@bingoviini]

@@iantaakalla8180 he's not cool to play He's like Ganondorf. Really badass and intimidating villain, ruined boring and uninspired moveset

[@burgergud2804]

How is he “objectively wrong”

[@hiddenpowerfairy]

​@@burgergud2804 that's what i'm wondering cuz raven beak was definitely a cooler villain than ridley

[@nutnut6161]

@@hiddenpowerfairyand has half of the legacy compared to Ridley

[@bulletcola7890]

I vastly prefer keeping Fox and Wolf rather than Fox/Falco.

[@lasercraft32]

I like the idea of Link being the Wild Era rep, and having Toon Link be the more classic Zelda rep.

[@TheGodIvy]

Not a coward, yet doesnt cut anyone from the original 12. Totally not a coward. A few of them can easily go, but nope

[@gavinrak2692]

But who would go tho? Jigglypuff?

[@jstar3382]

​@@gavinrak2692 yoshi

[@BringBackOGClubPenguin]

@@jstar3382????? YOSHI!?!?!?

[@blocks4857]

You're right, let's cut Falcon, Ness, Puff and Fox

[@worthlesshuman5041]

@@blocks4857 I can maybe see an argument for Puff and MAYBE falcon if you really push it but cutting Ness and Fox from smash is absolutely absurd. Mother is still a beloved and iconic series from nintendo and although starfox itself isn't as popular, Fox is inextricably tied to smash. What would you even replace them with? None of the other cut characters even come close

[@JB_CY]

I am happy you kept Hero. Thank you for recognizing his awesomeness.

[@benross9174]

People dont realize how insanely popular DQ is in Japan. Pokemania in the west is nothing, its like crack cocaine for children over there

[@gormflaith2326]

@@aneasteregg8171 me when i lie (min-min is right there!)

[@CornbreadDestroyer]

@@aneasteregg8171crazy

[@marcusjohansson3192]

well the only video game this guy has played is smash bros

[@INFERNO95]

Going by his ignorance in the video. ..sadly yea.

[@alviabtahi5440]

Can't wait for Corrin and Dr.Mario to make it to the next game

[@mythos6308]

I would generally hate to see Corrin again we get a 3DS rep with Awakening and they just get overshadowed by Three Houses being the best selling FE game they’re just cooked

[@iantaakalla8180]

I specifically only want Corrin to be there as a dragon representative. As soon as there is a better dragon representative for Fire Emblem, Corrin is out like the trash game they were in.

[@Chopscotch-p3n]

keeps rosalina but kicks out bowser jr.???

[@Totally-not-a-scp-employee]

When I saw you snap little Mac I shed a single tear

[@taokretz2776]

For the Mii characters, I'd say there should be one customizable Mii encompassing all three of them. For example, you choose a Brawler, Gunner, or Swordfighter "body" which would give you all of the normal attacks from that archetype. Then, each special slot has one option from each archetype and you can assemble your own custom special moveset from there. Yes, balancing this could be a nightmare, but I think that could be a nice compromise.

[@drake.the.exiled]

Yeah, we really don't need three whole character slots for Miis.

[@HIIMROSS777]

Just pull a SF6 and have them be fully customizable but they have to be used in their own gamemode and can't be picked in competitive play

[@iantaakalla8180]

Furthermore, the Miis basically work like that in both Smash 4 and Ultimate. No reason to not consolidate them when their gimmick is ultimate customizability and skins.

[@awayfromkeyboard1111]

@@HIIMROSS777 smash 4 already did this where you weren't allowed to use the miis anywhere online except tournaments

[@FearTheImpaler]

Keeping 3 miis HAS to be rage bait

[@therealestguy959]

Seeing the MIIs spared from the cut is pretty cool. But like I'd beg sakurai for a swordfighter and gunner rework. Swordfighter plays like link and gunner bursts blood vessels online.

[@thesilentshadow1256]

cutting snake was your biggest mistake. That hurt man.

[@Dnyink]

Imagine if little macs aerials started hitting as his tilts as his ko bar charges up, the idea is for the player to choose if he wants good aerials or ko punch, and to balance it out ko won't kill under 50%

[@mrbister8714]

Feels really refreshing to see someone not immediately go “Steve is annoying and overtuned in Ultimate, I hope he’s never in Smash again 😡” lol

[@benross9174]

I mean realistically you just need to change some numbers around as he said. Make his moves combo less, less KO power in general (like Pac-Man, make his kill power reliant on setups) and so on. Steve design wise is just DLC overtuned Pac-Man/Snake. Its much less problematic than spindash in a game with no walls

[@mrbister8714]

@@benross9174 That’s what I’m sayinnnn

[@paulakroy2635]

⁠@@benross9174I disagree. He is a very knife’s edge character and the developers didn’t really realize how powerful camping is

[@gavinrak2692]

​@@benross9174and just fix phantom mlg lol that's the main problem

[@saratoga6663]

Making his blocks last a lot less and increasing their hurtbox would drastically reduce his impact, even if you kept all his other moves the same

[@zachpro5475]

The fact dexit happened 5 years ago this year is insane

[@variumi]

The sword and shield tree killed my wife and burned my crops

[@mintystingmoon4787]

sword and shield took my day old sandwich, they must suffer

[@DannyMagik88]

Keeping Bayo and cutting Cloud is crazy

[@Crackey75]

Best take on this I’ve ever seen, noice job mock rock

[@BLamb]

Keeping Bayonetta over Cloud is WILD.

[@RejoyousMelissa]

Not really if you think about it. Bayonetta is the main character of a series; not just there for a few games. Nintendo’s also definitely more buddy-buddy with her series than Cloud’s, and would probably want to promote the new Bayonetta game only on Nintendo consoles.

[@BLamb]

@@RejoyousMelissa I’m saying it’s wild from the perspective of trying to keep a roster of iconic characters. No one’s gonna get on here and say that Bayonetta is a more iconic character than Cloud.

[@migmalucogachatm5618]

Boiling take' saying that "villager is more of an avatar than a character" and "isabelle is the mascot of the franchise" is like putting in creeper but not steve

[@NinjaPickle]

But Creeper doesn't talk to the player, nor is there a series of Isabelle's that attack the player. Isabelle is your guide and helper for most of your time in New Leaf and New Horizons, is the one that you see on the cover of both games, is the one that greets you every morning in both games (at least once you finish the tutorial in New Horizons), and is the one that always gets represented in merchandise and promotional materials for the game. It's between Tom Nook and Isabelle for who's the face of the franchise, and while many including myself would argue Tom is the better pick, Isabelle has proven to be the most popular character in all of Animal Crossing. Creepers are simple mob enemies that are unique to Minecraft and make for the most appealing design in terms of merchandise, they are not vital to the Minecraft experience like Isabelle is.

[@3DOM_]

Creeper doesn’t have a personality. Also Villager isn’t an animal, as a rep for animal crossing.

[@gabrielsalahi3656]

I’ve seen a dozen or so of these types of videos, and it’s literally impossible to make anyone happy when you do this but man If I had to rank these by how biased they are this is most definitely going at the top lol

[@PikaPhantomVG]

This was definitely one of the better takes on this concept that I've seen. It's something I tackled myself as early as pre-Joker (though I went down to 36 characters), and 15-year-old me made some pretty comparable decisions. I stripped the overall Mario cast down to the 8 in Brawl, omitting Rosalina, left in Wii Fit Trainer (this predated Ring Fit), Ike, Robin, Mr. Game & Watch, Lucario, and Ridley (who was at the time the Sora equivalent), picked Villager over Isabelle, and didn't keep Jigglypuff, Toon Link, Greninja, Bayonetta, Simon, or the Miis (Hero, Steve, and Sora weren't out yet). I'd definitely make some changes now, especially with the additional characters we got later, but it does hold up pretty nicely. There were a few choices you made that I do actively disagree with, though: - I don't know if I can say the Sakurai bias justifies Meta Knight's presence on the roster, even with the Kirby series solidifying itself as Nintendo's largest B-tier series on Switch. - On a similar note, stripping Fire Emblem all the way back to Marth on the basis that they can just add the newest protagonist as well doesn't sit quite right with me - especially if Alear has to be that pick. Engage's story and characters have been pretty widely criticized, and the game sits at less than half of what Three Houses sold (when it comes to the official sales numbers). A case for keeping Robin or Byleth can absolutely be made over giving Alear the nod, though if the next game can take the series to greater heights than Three Houses, this won't be much of a sticking point in my eyes. - Nintendo "adopting" Bayonetta can't singlehandedly justify her being one of the 8 third-party characters left on the roster. Even if Nintendo owned the IP, it would be the most niche series on the roster that wasn't a retro pick. Bayonetta 3 barely cracked 1 million, and while there are certainly various factors at play for this, Bayonetta Origins basically didn't chart anywhere. Considering you regarded *Pikmin* as being on thin ice because of its sales when Pikmin 3 Deluxe and Pikmin 4 have both sold well more than Bayonetta 3...yeah, I would've given Bayonetta the axe, and much sooner than you did. - There's a distinct lack of a retro Nintendo character. The closest one left in this roster is Ness, but Mother hasn't exactly been inactive - at least in Japan. Additionally, his status as a member of the Original 12 makes him feel very obligatory - couple that with him originating on the SNES and he just doesn't quite strike the same vibe. Pit's using the redesign invented for Brawl and formally canonized in Uprising, while F-Zero just had its first game in nearly 2 decades, and we last saw Captain Falcon on the GameCube anyways. While I'm admittedly one of the 3 people who'd be sad to see Duck Hunt go now, I don't think picking the retro game that wins in terms of raw sales is the best call - and the Ice Climbers aren't making the cut, either. So that leaves us with R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch. Both cover a very particular niche that no other character in Smash really does: hardware, with the former being a peripheral and the latter being based on an entire line of handhelds. I enjoy both characters in Smash, but I think I'd have to give the nod to Mr. Game & Watch. R.O.B. is significant as a Trojan horse that reignited the Western gaming industry, but ultimately only worked with a few games, has a largely made-up moveset, and wasn't ever all that functional to begin with. Mr. Game & Watch, on the other hand, represents a much broader line of games, is the oldest character in Smash (unless you want to count how the ducks from Duck Hunt date back to an older version of the game from arcades where they were the only visual elements and projected on a screen), represents the origins of Nintendo's handhelds (which have since come to define them, always succeeding even when their consoles faltered), and even embodies Nintendo's frequent design philosophy of getting as much mileage as possible out of older, cheaper hardware. He even carries with him a unique aesthetic to boot while pulling elements from across the Game & Watch series. And sure, Game & Watch Gallery and a few special editions have left him less dormant as well, but those have always sought to preserve the vibe of Game & Watch in some way, whether in the aesthetics of the games or with how the actual devices looked. I'd gladly swap him in for Bayonetta.

[@thegrimghoul]

I like that you cut joker assuming that persona 6 comes out

[@yoshisreal]

cutting Solid Snake from the roster should be criminal

[@rewstir6646]

Bro we do NOT need 2 links 😭

[@tylerrock7219]

Boy oh boy do I love Pokemon reps from newer gens, I sure hope nothing happens to them in yet another cutting Smash characters video!

[@TheJst100]

This thought experiment hurts my soul, I literally couldn't cut more than a couple characters if someone put a gun to my head, props to you for making good points.

[@Motemeii]

Roy is considered not a clone but Lucas is lmfao

[@kever905]

>Not a Coward >Besides to treat all RPG (outside of Pokemon) characters as if they are all the same character both personality and moveset wise >Removes all but one Fighting Game Character because Fighting games mechanics are scary > Remove all of the "clones" but Keep Toon Link and Ganon because of clear bias. >Keep certain characters based on legacy but remove all retro throwbacks >Remove everyone from games you never played before This is pretty much every cut roster video or post ever made

[@axr1798]

I respect your opinion, but I couldn't disagree more with this take lol

[@RobinButButter]

This really feels like it fr, look at his comment it's funny

[@Dominic13337]

Fighting game mechanics aren't at home in a party game like smash, best to just keep them all out since they're so poorly designed

[@Jaj_von_jorgus]

Not cutting the miis and then cutting falco and ike while keeping toon link is one of the most stupid decisions I've ever seen

[@dominiquesnijders2655]

The more videos i see of Smash cuts, the more i think i just won't play the next Smash game because all the characters i like end up getting cut. Tough choices go brrt but it still hurts

[@Kold-Kanadian]

"Fire Emblem Characters have enough reps" keeps the majority of the mario and pokemon characters

[@christopherjobin-official7440]

I don't know anybody whod take toothpaste over Byleth. It doesn't help that Three Houses is just the better game.

[@mythos6308]

Say it louder 🔊🔊🔊

[@Angel-Neo]

I think that the logic is rigth, they can replace Byleth over the new MC of the new entry of the series at the time, don't forget that when byleth was announced Three houses wasn't out in the west. He just used toothpastes ugly hair as an example

[@mythos6308]

@@Angel-Neo Idk what you are talking about but Three Houses was out for years by the time Byleth was put into smash

[@tirex3673]

Depends, what you value, in terms of Story FE16 is one of the best in the Franchise, while FE17 is probably among the weakest (But still better than the complete disasterpiece, that was FE14), but in terms of gameplay, FE16 is pretty mediocre, while FE17 is the best in the franchise.

[@christopherjobin-official7440]

@@tirex3673 I value story... And Edelgard. I really value Edelgard. Taking Amyr away from me just makes me sad.

[@Squish-E]

welp all my mains survived so I’ll take it

[@Myoo263]

these reasons to cut are all over the place

[@bogusWasHere]

as a mii main (all three) i assumed that we would just be an easy "yup there's three i can get rid of". i appreciate you seeing the value in them, although i understand why others do not care for them

[@FigurativelyFluffy]

honestly when you had 2 cuts left to make i was expecting you to just cut two of the mii fighters and turn the remaining one into an even more pick n choose combination of the three

[@LARAUJO_0]

I'm surprised you kept Greninja when there's already 4 other Pokemon reps (or 6 depending on how you count Pokemon Trainer). I'm VERY surprised you kept Sora over, say, Ridley or K Rool who are also two of the most requested characters of all time and much easier to license

[@G2Quiznos025]

Greninja at least makes sense since he was voted, by the fandom, as the most popular Pokemon in 2020.

[@dannyboy589]

Cutting Snake but keeping Diddy Kong is genuinely insane

[@LunaMinuna]

Cutting Kazyua just because he’s op is a coward move, you don’t know how Important TEKKEN as a series is, if we need to fgc it’s got to be Street fighter and TEKKEN unless you replace Kazyua with Jin then sure but like still. Ken I think still should have stayed because he is how you should do an echo but I’m not upset he’s gone. And this is coming from a non TEKKEN fan

[@talkingshark9996]

love to see you do this again but just your personal picks

[@OurTrashytreasures]

I feel like the only way that Lucas realistically gets into the next smash is if they localize Mother 3.

[@benisign]

you can tell what age and niche someone belongs to by how they cut the smash roster.

[@hiHiHiHiHiHiiiiiiiiiii]

Consolidate the miis into a single character. Boom you don’t have to cute Ike now

[@SegaAidan]

Honestly agree with 99% of the list, I'd probably just change greninja out for lucario. I'd also rather have terry than another character. I would easily trade sonic for terry, even though I'm a huge sonic fan, terry is far more fun to play as. Also if there was a smash game with the roster cut in half for some reason, a lot of the echo fighters could just be skins. Like Ken could just be a skin for Ryu.

[@wertywertys80]

This is the best 50/50 cut ive seen, i only think keeping rosa was a bad choice but you over all did a perfect job

[@frienderoo]

Cutting Banjo and Little Mac for bad movesets while keeping Toon Link and Rosalina is insane.

[@billiam6398]

i was on the same page until you cut mr game n watch. as the mr game n watch main, he is an essential inclusion in the roster as the absolute silliest fighter. the zany sounds, his pose-to-pose animations, how much he fucking sucks, playing game n watch is a great example of what i like to call “practical shitposting.” my perfect next smash game would include a janky game n watch with a moveset full of silly, impractical tech; the kind that you watch someone using and just laugh at how much effort they’re putting in to achieve so little. i would’ve liked if wii fit trainer was like this, because wii fit trainer in smash is a fundamentally silly concept, but no dice, and i support cutting them.

[@Krona-fb4dn]

RIDLEY? REALLY? He's been in every smash game since 64 (background on a stage like dedede in 64, trophy in Melee, TWO bosses in Brawl, stage hazard in Smash 4, and now a character) His inclusion to finally be a character and then removed for just "his design bores me" (which isn't a ridley exclusive problem) would be insane. That and heavyweights/big bodies are already quite rare in Smash, in addition to villains. Metroid is still quite a big IP to gaming history as Metroid has had huge influence, and Ridley is still probably the most heavily requested character from the west. His inclusion is why Smash Ultimate speculation was off the charts as his inclusion basically told everyone in the West "We've included the number one character that Sakurai has said 'never ever'." And weak design is more of a criticism of HOW the character was included. It has nothing to do with the actual inclusion of a fighter. I think bayonetta, sonic, diddy kong, and toon link are all pretty badly made characters for their own reasons. (sonic and diddy have revolved around annoying moves and have been AWFUL characters to fight for the past 2 games for Sonic or 3 for Diddy or Smash 4 Bayo). However the fact they were poorly made in those examples has not much to do with their inclusion/representation. Removing Snake is also insanity, only reason I can think of him getting axed is "Konami is evil" but other than representation, he has a hugely unique playstyle and an iconic pick. I don't see what is wrong with him.

[@paulakroy2635]

But raven beak. Also Ridley was cool but you have to cut someone

[@wewillrockyou3272]

​@@paulakroy2635 he kept Rosalina ain't nobody is really gonna complain if she gets axed

[@Bonehead_Paladin]

​@@wewillrockyou3272 the only argument I see is that cutting Rosa's really unique playstyle would be a shame, but honestly if Jr.'s cut than Rosa has to go too

[@brycebitetti1402]

​@paulakroy2635 Raven Beak was the main villain in a single Metroid game, whereas Ridley has by far the series' best attendance record outside of Samus herself. He's functionally the series' main villain despite never acting as the main threat in any single Metroid title. He just has the biggest ties to Samus as a protagonist and is connected to many of the series' most famous (or infamous) moments.

[@wewillrockyou3272]

@zilba4405 you can just give her unique playstyle to say olimar giving sense of setting traps

[@beaksters]

6:58 correct fact that sometimes these videos don’t know which makes pokemon fans facepalm when they cut greninja over mewtwo or something.

[@Jackie_burnp]

Your reasoning for cutting Ridley is actually insane lmao

[@Airs1000]

keeping like, 7 or so mario characters and somehow not having room for an awakening rep, cloud, joker, and more is kinda crazy

[@INFERNO95]

Do you now who the hell mario is?

[@Airs1000]

​@@INFERNO95What? Yes I do. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense to have that many Mario characters when there are so many other important characters not included. Mario, Luigi, peach, and Bowser are really the only needed Mario characters. There are so many better characters to keep.

[@Team-Eclipse6024]

I am not going to bother arguing with you based on the cuts I disagree with. This a thought experiment and his opinion calm down

[@mrmediocre848]

How dare you don't devolve into an Internet argument

[@jstar3382]

My only issue is how inconsistent the reasoning is. Reasons to keep others aren't good enough to keep another character. He shouldn't use bs excuses and just say "yeah I don't like this one, cutting it"