The GOAT (Greatest Of All Time) For Every Smash Move

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We've done a few different Smash move tier lists on this channel, and looked at the best moves in Ultimate, the worst moves in Ultimate...but what if we thought a bit bigger? Today we're going to be going through EVERY Smash game, from 64 to Melee all the way to Ultimate, and looking for the best moves ever. And we'll do it twice for good measure.
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Twitter: / mrmockrock​
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Teespring: teespring.com/...
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Music used:
"The First Campaign" - Etrian Odyssey Untold 2 OST
"Windbreak Bay" - Wario Land: Shake It! OST
"Under Logic" - Streets of Rage 2 OST
"A Million Different Faces" - Cloudpunk OST
"Party In The Clouds" - Adventure Time: Hey Ice King! Why'd You Steal Our Garbage?!! OST
"We're Finally Landing" - HOME
"Winter Bliss" - Castle Crashers OST
"End Credits" - Cyber Shadow OST
All original music, as well as its stems, are available for download to patrons, KZbin members, and Twitch subscribers.
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Thanks for watching!
#SmashUltimate #Nintendo #SuperSmashBros

[@MrMockRock]

📲Install Raid for Free Mobile and PC: pl.go-ga.me/r5chtufv and get a special starter pack with an Epic champion Tallia 🔥 Use the Promo Code JTSKIN before October 7th to get both the Epic Champion Stag Knight and Gilded Glider Custom Skin! You can redeem the Promo Code either via this site plarium.com/en/redeem/raid-shadow-legends/, or inside RAID: Shadow Legends itself if you are playing via an Android device or on Plarium Play. *Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock *Second channel:* kzbin.info *Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock *Twitch:* www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch *Teespring:* teespring.com/stores/mockrock *TimeBolt affiliate link* (excellent software I use to speed up editing on my videos, use code "MOCKROCK" for a discount): mockrock--timebolt.thrivecart.com/order-page/

[@OrigamiAhsoka]

“It’s me… I’m KZbinr…”

[@DoMorrMusic]

hello im KZbinr

[@daymare0]

but, what if I didn't do that?

[@rocbot9479]

Claim your ratio ticket here ✅ (And yes I am a bot read my name)

[@RockinRocketScience]

Bruh

[@WeezyTF2]

28:28 "despite such heavy tweaking" I see what you did there.

[@PROPLAYEN]

its the mvm guy

[@ShallBePurified]

He's Tweeking!

[@MrAnniTagada]

I didn't see it lol

[@DragonMaster1818]

I genuinely thought of tweek when he said that

[@lucastyson5230]

I’m amazed Minecraft Steve didn’t get any “best move” awards, despite how amazing all his moves are

[@Sr.5902]

Mostly because he doesn't have a move SO broken that it's the center of the character. He is an amazing character because of the sinergy that all his move have with each other.

[@jtwk3400]

GOAT concept for a video

[@adumbchicken8022]

"It's me, I'm KZbinr" is probably the best ad segue I've ever heard.

[@boxcart4533]

I would consider meta knights down special in brawl as the technical greatest move ever created for any character ever

[@Nelerabine]

I am surprised nobody is mentioning Ultimate Game and Watch's down smash. Seems like the kind of move with a ridiculous hit box and not many weaknesses.

[@doggo4078]

Dude your editing is just getting better and better. I’m so happy to see the consistent growth in your skills. Love the content keep it up.

[@bertramjensen188]

What's particularly impressive is he's never gone overboard because of it, he clearly understands when to tone it down and keep things simple and clear

[@dootdoodle569]

y’uore

[@__FS__]

@@dootdoodle569 y'oure're*

[@lexidashu]

@@dootdoodle569nigga ☠️

[@castform7]

37:07 In the wise words of CONEY "Tornado is funny cause it turned certain characters *off".* Just the idea of Meta Knight spinning around deciding whether or not you could use a character is hilarious to me.

[@slimballs9650]

I’m pretty sure he remembered 37:24 only because of CONEY.

[@rubyredyoshi]

it crazy how brawl character’s entire viability revolved around meta knight. can you chain grab meta knight? can you edgeguard meta knight? he was the judge jury and executioner for everyone

[@slimballs9650]

@@rubyredyoshi I mean they call him META Knight for a reason.

[@pmahcgop6693]

Toon link’s only move that can beat tornado is his bombs so when he sees him spinning he has to quickly run away pull out a bomb and throw it at him

[@DoMorrMusic]

I mean he did react to CONEY’s reaction

[@jackconrad7851]

I love that with vids like these you always seem to put at least 1 honorable mention or runner up per category. I think it makes the vids more interesting, shows how knowledgeable you are, and shows you put time and effort into choosing each category.

[@pmahcgop6693]

37:24 Four different people from different walks of life, two of them from another continent then the other two. They all decide to use the same move at the same time and all for different purposes. Anti uses it to recover to the platform. Mew2king uses it to get from ledge. Atori uses it to block Mew2king from getting up from ledge. Kakera uses it to recover to center stage.

[@aclonymous]

coneying

[@Migota_]

Bro literally copied what Coney said

[@DragonMaster1818]

“And yet tornado is the universal language” Ima be honest I laughed hard when I heard coney say that

[@jaceon8000]

37:25 and we see here, a storm of Meta Knights about to take off so they can head south for the winter. We at Smashional Geographic wish them the best in their flight

[@imESAM]

Agree with a lot of the Super GOAT list, the only one MAYBE I disagree with is Down-B, could've been dimensional cape from brawl because of IDC, but that got banned so I understand not wanting to use it

[@RealChaseman17]

Hey Esam.

[@Slykie]

Steve neutral special wins for sure, his argument completely ignores crafting and mining which enables Steve’s ENTIRE game

[@shrimp258]

@@Slykiewhile that’s true mining and crafting still have counterplay and are actually a weakness for Steve while Meta Knight literally and I mean literally could win the game on character selection if you decided to use that move

[@ZunkleFunkle]

Felt SO GOOD to see Ganondorf as the runner-up for the down air category. Between that and Incineroar's Alolan Whip, it's right up there in terms of satisfying as hell moves to kill with.

[@maximeminassian6002]

I guess next time we’ll do the woat (worst of all time) moves and obviously have Falcon Punch for Neutral B et Volcano Kick for up tilt

[@Naggfruit]

BOAT is a better name

[@jetnyan2348]

falcon punch is actually really good in 64

[@gbx4858]

probably egg roll for side b as well

[@meee_5155]

Ganon neutral b is somehow falcon punch but worse. Also ganon up tilt is definitely a move that exists.

[@dysr]

@@meee_5155You could argue that it’s better. Both are too slow to ever be used competitively outside of a shield break, but Warlock Punch being stronger means that it’s better in that use-case.

[@Driff97]

16:07 Not only was Miloni's reaction funny, listening to the in game audio from the clip makes it sound like MKLeo's hits sync up perfectly with the music. It remains my favourite MKLeo moment of all time for that reason. Oh yeah and........goated video so far.

[@imESAM]

PIKACHU MENTIONED LET'S GOOOOOO

[@ceeemgee0381]

After brawl, Meta Knight’s Shuttle loop was so good that it became a part of his move set in the Kirby games and is THE best move in each respective one like: *Return to Dreamland:* Frame 1, faster glide, unlimited usage, MORE invincibility and was jump cancellable, meaning you could become a COMPLETELY INVINCIBLE spinning vortex that shredded bosses due to its higher damage. *Kirby Fighters 2:* Also unlimited in a fighting game where flight is limited for everyone else. Also much faster WITH A CONSTANT ACTIVE MULTI-HITBOX, so you could fly around and chase your opponent (or camp) indefinitely. And also jump-cancellable, so you can preform an infinite on the whole cast whenever you want. *Every other game it’s in:* Either in the top 3 or is THE BEST speed-running move in the game. (Plus everything else) Shuttle loop does everything

[@AfroBlackSiren]

Another runner-up you could mention in the GOAT ofall Down-B is PEach's turnips. In every iteration, it serves as a neutral tool, combo starter, cheese (with turnips, bob-ombs and swords), edgeguard. It's such an important part of her kit and it has always been an amazing move

[@davidolinger3948]

So many amazing character defining items lol, giving any character a spawnable item instantly changes their whole game plan

[@greenmcbean6429]

“It’s me, I’m KZbinr” is the greatest way to start a raid ad I’ve ever seen lol.

[@Talkative_Introvert123]

Great lists. I would have put Shulks manodo arts from ultimate as an honorable mention for neutral b but other then that, everything was spot on in my opinion. keep up the great work.

[@Provolonage]

Yeah same, I was surprised it didn't get talked about at all.

[@joey5745]

It’s because the Mach Tornado is most of Shulks Manado in one move, lol. Damage, Defense, Speed, and Recovery, it only lacks kill power,

[@gebis8515]

Monado Arts require a lot of thinking, almost to the detriment of the move because regular humans struggle to process such copious amounts of information. On the other hand a literal monkey could probably win by just spamming the B button on Meta Knight, Mach Tornado is genuinely the closest thing I have ever seen to an actual win-button in a fighting game. I would say Monado Arts are comparable to Steve though.

[@silvesta5027]

I think Sheik f-tilt is arguable just because it isn’t that good in ultimate. It’s very good in 4 and pretty good in brawl & melee but it’s one of her least important moves in ult. It’s not safe on shield, or to use in neutral and you can’t ledgetrap with it. All it really serves to do is extend combos and since Sheik has plenty of options to do that already, it’s actually a lot less useful than you might expect.

[@ZAPRST8879]

​@@joey5745mach tornado can kill too on the top

[@kestrelynn]

I love making the sponsor transition the punchline to a setup, "Its me... Im youtuber" got a genuine laught out of me

[@amateraceon5202]

Between the bomb edit in the SD video and the first 30 seconds of this one, MockRock is slowly becoming a more and more chaotic individual and we will not be able to contain him for much longer

[@allthingsgaming6]

Missed opportunity for an April Fool’s list where every move is from Brawl Meta Knight or Sm4sh Cloud or Bayo

[@TaleOfTheToaster]

What a strong opening 30 seconds

[@eugeniomorichon5624]

🐐

[@ish_]

What a strong opening 40 minutes and 18 seconds

[@jakedemetrius_official]

This reminds me of a smash mod i saw where in little macs victory screen, doc louis screams that little mac is the goat

[@pearlplayaa]

While I am an avid hater of Raid Shadow Legends The fact that they still took up the sponsorship deal even though you made fun of them in the intro is comedy gold

[@kode-man23]

Was anybody else waiting for ICs pummel to show up? 😅 Awesome stuff once again. I would have put Brawl Mach Tornado in the true GOAT spot, but you make a good case for the Shuttle Loop too. I think Smash 4 Mario up tilt would have also been a good honourable mention, other than that and the Monado that other’s have mentioned I think that you got everything.

[@justforlawlsandtrolls]

I've never been one to appreciate Raid Shadow Legends, but I SWEAR making Raid Shadow Legends the punchline for a previous youtube joke and THEN actually taking the sponsorship is probably the best laugh I've had in a while

[@DatHypnoboi]

I'm surprised Monado Arts wasn't even mentioned during the neutral special section

[@stylishsubstance]

There is no way he made fun of raid shadow legends and got sponsored by them... In the same video

[@Sunray625]

I know this list refers to how the moves work in their characters and over all games but I think melee zelda bair is the best bair in the series in a vacuum it's a frame 5 areal that kills most characters very early, and unlike the newer games the sweat spot is very easy to hit and even the sour spot still does 10 damage at least in melee if you put this move on any good character it would break the game, fast fallers now get a better kill move that could probably combo into one of their moves and imagine someone like puff spaming bair in melee but except of it being a slow disjoint and does ok knockback, it's an extremely fast kill move, or roy doing jair but it kills at 60-80 (also sorry for this being long but I am very passionate about this for no reason)

[@the_gork]

Genuinely shocking smash 4 cloud never even got a mention

[@pmahcgop6693]

I guess he just didn’t have a long enough legacy (only two games) and non of his individual moves are the absolute goat when he’s contending with melee puff back air and brawl MK everything

[@ricardoludwig4787]

My one rea disagreement with the llist is needles not even getting a mention for neutral special. Yeah, ultimate charge shot is the best but that move ran smash 4, is amazing for combos and neutral in ulimate, a solid projectile in brawl and the single best edgeguarding tool in melee, not to mention how it's always had access to an enormous amount of movement tech

[@the_bookworm8281]

Special mention to vanilla SSB4 Sheik's Needles. That move was a war crime. Much less endlag and traveled essentially the full length of Final Destination. That move used to completely shut down certain matchups alone. That was the time period where the best neutral game and combo character was also one of the best zoners in the game.

[@playittilitshot]

brawl meta knight is genuinely one of the funniest things in smash history, i love just seeing it pop up as a consistent example of some of the most insane balancing decisions made in any video game ever

[@kestrelynn]

A similar idea ive thought about is whats the single best character you can make combining moves from across the series So id like to share the cursed idea of spindash and melee or 64 rest on one character

[@gator-tater9827]

Alongside brawl mach tornado

[@hterramae]

I was expecting at least an honorable mention for Monado Arts in the second section, not gonna lie

[@techngamin]

39:49 Mango lol

[@redpandaplush5980]

the more I see brawl gameplay the more I'm convinced it could've been a sick game without meta knight, ice climbers, or tripping

[@jonathanlgill]

Yeah, those characters should have been banned early in the game's competitive history. It's a cool meta without them.

[@adamationsplus8063]

Can I shout out this edit rq? 18:30. Did not expect that and was really well done. Great video

[@MrMockRock]

Hey thanks, appreciate it!

[@aydenka8452]

Loved the video! I think I would put Melee Roy as the best Dtilt in the series , although it is very close. AMAZING combo starter, nearly identical frame data to Marths, and beats asdi down, which is progressively becoming more and more important in the meta. The only thing that weakens it is that it is on Melee Roy. 😂

[@sigzbro]

I was going to mention this myself lol.

[@je19493]

Do a worst move version now! Bet it would be harder to make since people wouldn't ever talk about these moves besides the obvious garbage like egg roll and volcano kick, but I would still 100% want that

[@Point5_]

damn, no HM to monado arts ?

[@zeospark9715]

I also give an honorable mention to the GOAT of Neutral Special to Shulk's Monado Arts from Ultimate. Just those stat buffs all on that easy to navigate window now makes Shulk a menace now even being on the higher end of the tier list

[@lulu82o]

Monado arts aren't better than brawl mach tornado, but I agree that they are better than Steve's nB but since, as he said, he is not judging these in a vacuum, I see why it was disregarded

[@lasercraft32]

Bah, real ones know that the GOAT of Down Airs goes to Dr. Mario's timbs! 😤

[@gkoala8360]

I want someone to make a character with all of your “most powerful” moves on it.

[@competitively3315]

modders wya

[@sirk603]

It wouldn’t really work then. Some of the moves are only good because they are in combination w/ others

[@gkoala8360]

@@sirk603 the point really isn't for it to "work". I am well aware that mixing various strong moves will not make a cohesive character. But it would be fun to see

[@jonathanlgill]

I feel like Link's nair deserves the spot, for it's well known for have being busted in most of its iterations (it's not even bad in Brawl, though that is a low point for it). It's much more impactful to his gameplan than Marth's nair is; Link just doesn't have the legacy of repeatedly being a top tier character to showcase it.

[@smam7667]

i was looking for this comment hundred percent agree. Its his best move in Melee because of the coding error and arguarbly his best in Ultimate (or his bomb)

[@MaxWelton]

15:42 plus Link’s Brawl Bombs don’t synergize nearly as well with his nair.

[@someawesomeguy4415]

I feel like he could have talked about grabs too, would have been interesting to see and talk about, for goats I think it would be dk, although I can’t remember if he always had that grab and if it was that strong in melee or 64 but I feel likes it’s status and him being the go to grab character imo puts it as the goat, for best of all time I think it’s ice climbers melee, nothing quite like a wobble (although I think it’s banned now right?) to be frank I think it could have won goat too being staples in brawl and in ultimate but going by his rules, he wasn’t in smash 4 or 64 so I gave it to dk, for runner ups I think Marth, fox, or maybe ness could have won, fox grab has great through most the games I believe and Marths giant grab in melee was unbelievable, i don’t really know tho, he didn’t mention any grabs and grabs in general are pretty solid as one of if not the best way to counter shields and are generally pretty similar to each other although definitely have differing strengths and some are even long ranged besides marth.

[@KingMatthewXV]

Alternate title: MockRock fanboys about Marth for 40 minutes.

[@aidanpellett9125]

Falcon punch is goat neutral b tho

[@jackiovino6454]

Meta knights brawl down b though? He can just stop playing the game lol

[@pmahcgop6693]

I guess it’s the only move that has easily accessible tech that’s banned but if you talk about what’s banned then there’s probably some messed up melee bugs like link’s ghost arrow and could disable the game from properly working. But yeah mashing up on the c-stick making you immortal is pretty dumb

[@SharurFoF]

Falco Shine over Fox Shine is very strange to me. The edge guards are so much more valuable than killing off the top (which is way more niche), and even pillar combos, flashy as they are, aren't guaranteed death like shine spiking is. Also, while you say that Falco Shine is more reliable because of the knockback trajectory, Fox Shine has the bigger hitbox, which makes it more reliable at actually connecting. They're both absurdly good get-off-me tools and combo starters, but Fox is so much better at using it as an approach option, and that in combination with using it as an edge guard tool (one of the best in the game at that) makes it a clear winner to me.

[@nathanpeereboom761]

I'd argue the GOAT for down special should go to Brawl Meta Knight, because with the infinite dimensional cape glitch, Meta Knight automatically wins the game as soon as he gets even a 1% lead. If you want to argue against that because that's not tournament legal, fair, but I'd say the fact that a rule had to be made against it is proof that it's the GOAT. (Similar argument can be made for Steve's block being the GOAT neutral special with PMLG, but that glitch isn't nearly as impactful as infinite dimensional cape, and Brawl Mach Tornado is so good it likely beats it even then.)

[@MrMockRock]

Infinite Dimensional Cape is banned, so it's not anymore of a factor than what the best moves for grabbing Pokeballs or getting around Temple are, this video is structured around competitive rulesets

[@nathanpeereboom761]

@@MrMockRock Fair enough.

[@Benjawin6671]

Meta Knight's down b in Brawl is clearly the best as you only have to use it once after landing a single hit and you win.

[@survivorofthecurse717]

For Brawl Meta Knight's up air, not only was the starting speed the quickest (frame 2), but also had incredibly low endlag. Iirc, he's the only character ever that could do 3 aerials in a single SH

[@cullenhutchison6528]

I think Dash Attack should have gone to Fox as well. Maybe that character is just really good in multiple smash games.

[@pieceofbread5311]

Time to ignore my life for 40 minutes!

[@FerousFolly]

so glad they peeled back diddy's banana pull to only one at a time, two was chimply too much

[@swift7842]

15:08 coward. Don’t pretend like you don’t know the technical term

[@renegade6578]

Timestamps Part 1: 3:27 - Jab 5:01 - Forward Tilt 5:56 - Down Tilt 7:22 - Up Tilt 9:07 - Dash Attack 10:27 - Forward Smash 12:01 - Down Smash 13:33 - Up Smash 15:01 - Neutral Air 16:24 - Forward Air 18:23 - Back Air 19:28 - Up Air 21:34 - Down Air 23:15 - Neutral Special 24:04 - Side Special 26:07 - Down Special 28:30 - Up Special 30:53 - Final Verdict for GOAT of every smash move using a broad overview approach of the move's entire legacy. Part 2: POWAH 31:33 - Jab 31:57 - Forward Tilt 32:08 - Down Tilt 32:47 - Up Tilt 33:03 - Dash Attacks 33:26 - Forward Smash 33:36 - Down Smash 33:55- Up Smash 34:19 - Neutral Air 34:54 - Forward Air 35:02- Back Air 34:51 - Down Air 36:31 - Up Air 37:03 - Neutral Special 37:57 - Side Special 38:20 - Down Special 39:04 - Up Special

[@MrKamistra]

Shulk has the best neutral b of all time if not the best move of all time. You can't convince me otherwise.

[@sigurdtheblue]

Yeah, that seems like an oversight to not even mention it. It is not a perfect move, but it could be on most characters.

[@pmahcgop6693]

Yeah it’s really good but I feel like it’s potential is always overstated. If it was on a different character that could get ladder combos with jump or find 0-deaths with buster and smash art but this is in a vacuum. Also I don’t even think it’s the best neutral B of all time, just look at 37:24. 4 people all used the same move at the same time for a different purpose.

[@RJKS45]

For the algorithm

[@Leet-iz2fz]

Fox Up Smash is the reason I choose to keep believing Star Fox's legs are made of metal, even though official statements say otherwise.

[@GumshoeClassic]

The quadruple Mach Tornado clip is a work of art.

[@blobbler]

32:13 I would argue that roys downtilt is better. It is the only reason roy is even mediocre. It combos into his grab, and destroys spacies by itself

[@king_alloy]

Crouch cancel countering is a more significant use case imo than the combo ability when combined with the great stage control it grants.

[@MrFancyDragon]

I’m so used to watching your tierlist for the move sets and consistent uploading on MockRockTalk That it took me a whopping 5 minutes to realize this is the main channel DX

[@wanderlustwarrior]

Huh, I didn't know fans named Sheik's up smash after DDP, but I can definitely see it. BANG!

[@josemorataya1667]

your editing is getting so good. you’re such an underrated figure in game design

[@FedoraKirb]

0:17 This was remarkably cursed. Thanks MockRock!

[@theinvincible5907]

“I sincerely apologize for punching my cat”

[@idavid8391]

Fantastic video, Mocker Rocker--heck, it's basically two! Had me engaged and curious the entire time (as usual), both to see your choices and hear your reasonong.

[@unsapient2197]

If we’re talking goat in terms of singular appearance I think Melee Roy dtilt at least has to go over Melee Marth dtilt. In exchange for an unreasonably good combo starter, the only thing Marth would lose is cheesy low percent kills, and even then it doesn’t even really lose that when instead of killing a fox with dtilt at the ledge at 20%, you could just do dtilt > dair or dtilt > fsmash. Granted, it’s an understandable decision considering that melee Roy in general is so unbelievably a** lol

[@TheRealBatabii]

Imagine making fun of Raid Shadow Legends sponsorships and then immediately having a Raid Shadow Legends sponsorship

[@benjason_94]

down air should have been falcon

[@SweetsSsb]

Bruh why not do the Final Smash

[@zdelrod829]

I'd say Nair goes to Link because of the good old Melee trope of bs hitboxes, where *they forgot to set the flag to end the hitbox, so the hitbox is out until the entire animation ends.*

[@waffleman8053]

Proof that Marth has a perfect moveset.

[@jimiyu.]

each of Marths moves are insanely good in a vacuum since despite their inconsistency they’re just so dang powerful, the problem comes when your entire kit is exclusively these great but inconsistent moves

[@firewall5189]

​@@jimiyu.tbf i feel that this statement only really applies in ult, since in every other game marth's moveset is much less "inconsistently good" and more just...good. like crazy good.

[@memelord696]

Love that summoning salt shout out

[@hastamanasti]

Who is the girl in the kirby entry?

[@donut3477]

Surprised no monado arts made it in

[@Sebboebbo]

Da king is back baby he neva miss

[@Hello_World_not_taken]

I’m happy Bowser showed up as an honorable mention! Good on ya, buddy!

[@Scienceboy0]

Why didn't you do throws?

[@c0diz]

39:55 do you mean the mango…

[@Lily-ed8fl]

falcons fair was robbed

[@kirbyx2573]

Meta Knight's Mach Tornado is like a code: When _ mach tornado. What is the blank? Literaly anything. The oponent breathes? Mach Tornado. Your oponent does anything? Mach Tornado. Such a dumb move haha. Tho the sound is hella cool. Wish that sound stuck around..

[@Choochinc]

Mach tornado was contestable, but it was very difficult. With enough precision, some moves could hit MK out of it from above with the correct timing as well. Brawl also has an advanced tech called power shield cancelling, which allows Fox to power shield nado, and then shine MK right out of it. Still a ridiculous move, but it did actually have some counterplay.

[@kevinshen3388]

As a mainly Melee player I have some comments: *I argue that Fox shine is much better than Falco's both in a vacuum and overall in the character's kit. In a vacuum Fox's shine has a larger hitbox size and Fox has a faster 3 frame jump squat compared to Falco's shine, so you can waveshine/multishine/jump cancel shine significantly faster (2 frames feels like not that much but it makes an incredible difference in Melee). As for edgeguarding, Fox's shine alone is one of the best edgeguarding tools in the game and makes him a much better edgeguarder than Falco. At/below the level of the stage, he can shine spike basically every character except Jigglypuff starting at zero percent for a near guaranteed kill. Falco has to use his bair, dair, or a situational shine-bair or shine-dair which are much slower and riskier. For combo potential, Fox's shine has strong combos and kill confirms on 4/7 high tiers (waveshine grab/up smash on Marth, Sheik, Falcon, and Peach) and has tech chase combos against Fox, Falco, and Jigglypuff. Falco's shine has insane combo potential on Fox and Falco but decent combo potential against everyone else, and is much much harder to kill confirm with against non-spacies (basically leads to nothing on floaties at high percents). *Roy's down tilt is better than Marth's imo because it leads to combos and kill confirms while Marth's just knocks people away; Marth's down tilt also can be crouch canceled to extremely high percents (the video incorrectly says that it beats crouch canceling). *Falco's lasers in Melee (and Brawl) should at least be an honorable mention for best neutral B *Falcon's knee in Melee should be at least honorable mention for best forward air, it kills every character at 100 percent or lower and has a multitude of setups against every character, floaties and fastfallers; the late hit also has combo potential. One of Marth's main issues is his lack of kill confirms especially against non spacies, and none of his aerials except down air spike kill until around 200 percent. I would argue that Marth would be a much better character in Melee if he had Falcon's knee, when he could just kill confirm people at 100 percent and land KOs for fun whenever he wanted.

[@MorrowMoon_thenightwing]

FOR THE ALGORITHM!!!

[@bradford9086]

R.I.P., throws :(

[@TanookyTeneka]

So basically The Melee boys needed to cheat to become good, Meta Knight has some goofy stuff but he just needs to be Meta Knight to be peak

[@HuSH_cptfalcon]

what do you mean "they needed to cheat"

[@Drengodr]

I don't play much Smash Bros. anymore, but I still consistently watch your channel for the quality analysis. Great job, man!

[@tobdog6224]

Oh. Hi!

[@competitively3315]

I can’t imagine the drafting process when making this video.

[@lancelee338]

I know I didn’t experience Brawl to it’s full extent, but I definitely thought Monado Arts were the best neutral b, except maybe mine/craft/block. At the same time, I’m not even sure you mentioned it was a combo finisher that could kill off the top after the up air chains

[@playaskirbyandwin267]

Every character still can *play* against monado arts. So many characters only had one move that could beat tornado, some of the time, not even consistently A move that turns off half the roster single handedly beats a move that lets Shulk have a great chance at beating the whole roster

[@firewall5189]

ive experienced brawl. it CANNOT be overstated how fucked anyone was trying to deal with mach tornado. mockrock isnt exaggerating in the video when he says that that one move could shut down entire characters, and id go so far as to say you could make a genuinely good argument for that thing just soloing like 60% of brawl's characters. its THAT good.

[@andresgarfias7746]

🥭 the goat

[@Beefman.0]

would have liked to see a category for non standard moves, ie; EWGF, Crack Shoot, and Float, but otherwise, another sick video from the real GOAT

[@DtrJr]

20:45 dude this combo here is fucking NUTS dude

[@firewall5189]

dread him, run from him, leo will still appear somewhere in any video that talks about ult for even a split second

[@benjamingesinski9170]

A list that I think would be interesting is the most unique of every move, listing every move that acts the most different of others in the same category. Some examples I can think are Zero Suit Samas's down smash which stuns, Mega Man's jab which is a projectile, and Jigglypuff's up special which isn't a recovery.

[@DEVILONBOTHSHOULDERS]

the specials r way more interesting than the normals tho like there isn’t a single normal more unique than hero menu, shulk arts, steve block/mine/craft, kirby copy, etc

[@tkienjoyer]

Yoshi's down tilt in melee is stronger than marth's by a long shot, the fixed damage just makes it better in every situation pretty much. It's a downtilt that knocks down at 0,, is a shine spike at ledge, and is just overall super oppressive due to it's fixed knockback. I'd also say Roy's is better. I shake in my boots thinking of marth with Roy's down tilt. Gnw in melee is also an honorable mention, ridiculous disjoint and super fast.

[@bigpapamanman1550]

I'd like to give special recognition to Pikmin Toss because it gives Olimar as close to a consistent one-move neutral as probably any character has gotten. There's Steve's mining, Diddy Kong's banana in brawl, and Fox's laser in melee but probably no move handles so much across multiple iterations as pikmin toss

[@GammaFn.]

I can't say I really disagree with any of these. The closest I can think of is setting Melee Pika's up smash as the GOAT over Fox's. IMO it's better than Fox's by the same degree that Falco's shine is better than Fox's. (Stronger, more spammable, more disjoint, 1 frame slower, just as central to the character) But despite all the u-tilt u-air u-air u-smash clips Axe pulls off, I can't honestly put it ahead of Fox. Falco's shine wins by being on a top tier, I can't say the same about Pika's up smash.