Model A on the DYNO!!

This is one of those things that nobody knew they needed to know - so I went ahead and did it.
Today, we'll find out how good (or bad) a performer a bone-stock Ford Flat Four really is. The Company stated 40 Horsepower, nobody ever stated torque figures, and the course of their values over the rpm range remains a secret, too.
To this day, that is - enjoy!

[@Engineerd3d]

That is one honest engine. The 34.5hp is right in line with driveline losses and friction. That is a healthy motor. As you said basically a tractor. The nice thing is that engine will run on just about any grade of fuel, you could run it on alcohol, could probably run it on kerosene probably. Not bad for 100year old.

[@AstraWerke]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that - SAE horsepower are measured from the engine, no generator, fan or waterpump connected. So that's most likely where those couple of horses went.

[@randybradley5372]

They can, they start on fuel then run on kerosene .

[@ScottRuggels]

Very smoothly running engine. Paul Shinn would be proud.

[@32bitsPersona]

6:00 i love the fire coming out of the exhaust, just like other sports cars do today!

[@Simon_r2600]

Yes and that turbo noise 🤤 I bet it has got a biturbo setup

[@dougsather2939]

Cool, I have a 30 coupe also. The Model A is fun to drive and class never goes out of style 😇🙏

[@ScottDLR]

Ford stated 40 HP AT THE CRANK. WIth avg losses of that trans, you are easily in that range.

[@Rustinox]

A model A on the dyno, that's brilliant. Who would ever come up with that! What's next? Tractor pulling?

[@AstraWerke]

Oh, you're giving me ideas... Hill climbing, maybe xD

[@ModelA]

Very interesting!

[@johnnyrocket6588]

I agree

[@quailstudios]

Hi Paul, it’s great to see you here!

[@stephenhenion8304]

This is Great! I never saw anyone else do this!! Way more torque than I expected. Model A Fords are Classic !🎩🇺🇸🎩

[@djordjeblaga7815]

Just for comparison, a Golf mk2 GTI makes similar torque numbers.

[@mlackey9812]

I like your style Brother. I live in Southern California and I too use a 1930 Ford Model A couple as a 'daily driver' I actually prefer it over my 911 Porsche. Good on you!

[@paulmontagner6360]

When i saw the flames coming out of the rear pipe the cob webs were catching alight in the pipe lol thats a good effort for a 100 year old car well done !

[@jimmyjimmy19702010]

I always love the model A particularly when they come on boost!

[@AstraWerke]

I'd love a roots compressor kit - it doesnt even have to make extra power, just sound like it :D

[@genegarbis8746]

You know ,they were all equipped with Turbos ,, especially the early ones,,,, HONEST ,,,

[@poulbjerre181]

Thank you for some nice videos. I love your choice of music together with your laid back but scientific attitude. I am in the process of buying my first model A, so this is very helpful.

[@AstraWerke]

Thanks alot - it's always great to hear that my attempts at making videos informative and watchable at the same time are somewhat successful :) Best of luck on your purchase. They are attention-demanding little buggers, but the more care you give, the more joy you get :)

[@Thomas63r2]

Like others here I think you did quite well. Usually on manual transmission cars I count on ~ 15% loss of power getting from the crankshaft to the drive wheels. At 34.5 horsepower you are spot on for a 15% loss from 40 horsepower at the engine. I had one car that I ran both an engine dyno (681 hp) before installing the engine, and then on the chassis dyno it was 556 hp at the wheels which is ~ a 16% power loss from the engine to the wheels. The torque is the story for any low rpm engine like the Model A's banger.

[@michaeleisenbise4278]

incredibly nice video. thanks

[@jk9554]

Bonus exhaust flames. Nice. You've got yourself a racecar there, not a tractor :p

[@Touring1923]

Ist ja klasse. Und sehr interessant. Klar, die Werksangaben für Leistung und Drehmoment sind etwas höher, aber man darf auch nicht vergessen, dass die Werte an der Hinterachse abgegriffen wurden und es sich um ein Auto handelt, das bereits 90 Jahre auf dem Buckel hat. Und dafür sind die Werte top. Besonders der Drehmomentverlauf bestätigt auch mein Gefühl beim Fahren und "erklärt", warum man ein Model A so schaltfaul fahren kann. Wieder mal ein tolles Video von dir. Vielen Dank!

[@AstraWerke]

Genau so sehe ich das auch. Bei dem zähen Öl und der etwas... konservativ ausgelegten Lagerung geht sicherlich das ein oder andere Pferdchen verloren. Aber absolut kein Grund, jetzt am Motor herumzudoktorn. Ich nenne das immer "die Automatik der 30er Jahre" - dritten Gang einlegen und da lassen :)

[@FordModelA-kp9ko]

Tolles Video . Ja - ich denke damals wurden SAE gemessen/dargestellt

[@larrystout606]

Cool info Adrian !!!

[@johnbehneman1546]

GREAT VIDEO AND EDUCATION!!!! THANKS FOR SHARING!!!! I LEARNED SO MUCH!!!!

[@kingpolo86]

wenn bei nem allradprüfstand die vorderräder mitdrehen, stimmt was nicht wenn du einen heckdriebler hast. da kommt noch was, der bringt bestimmt 40ps... danke fürs video. immer wieder top, sowas zu sehen und respekt für dich und dein sehr, ja, sehr altes auto.

[@robsmith2956]

MAN thanks 😊 now I know what she is real test

[@billz482]

Absolutely loved it! Thanks for another great video. 👍🏻

[@chronicawareness9986]

damn dude thats way more torque then i was expecting

[@dalemettee1147]

After seeing the numbers, I'm not surprised. I mean, with pistons that big, torque is got to be up there. I wonder how much more HP the modified engines get?

[@tomgunn8004]

Why spin the front wheels?

[@alweb360]

Ford did not measure the output at the wheels they used an engine dynamometer meter. That output seems quite good.

[@conrad1468]

Surprisingly high torque values in comparison to HP. Very cool info to know.

[@clarkb1900]

It makes sense, since HP is torque times speed and it "redlines" at just 2,500rpm. I think my '13 Corolla's engine makes around 130hp, 100lbft at 4,000rpm, with a 6,000rpm redline, and according to the graph, the 'A made maximum power at only 1,300rpm; that's pretty much the same!

[@chronicawareness9986]

6:05 dude i was like wtf!! lol

[@AstraWerke]

LOL

[@HorsepowerDashcam]

incredible special effects :) Being at 88 (kmh) you should have the possibility to go back to the future. Just build one of these flux capacitors in your shop. Should be doable.

[@AstraWerke]

One point Twenty-One Gigawatts?!???

[@tedrobinson372]

Very interesting. Excellent presentation. In hindsight would have been interesting to compare the curves from the old Ford with a modern car.

[@AstraWerke]

Thanks alot. Finding a comparable diagram is quite complicated for a number of reasons: First, there are hardly any cars that output only 40hp, these days. Even a Smart Fortwo has 70hp! Then, should you find a 40hp engine, its rpm range will be totally different. Today's engine get their power through high rpm, not large displacement (since power = work per time, more revolutions in the same time equal more power). While my car's engine tops out at around 2600rpm, most modern engines won't even have "woken up" by that point. And on the other hand, if you look up the curves of an engine with similar displacement, torque and hp figures will be completely off the grid. Imagine a Ford GT with 40hp xD A big plus for the Model A engine is it's constant torque. From 20 to 55mph, you basically have all the torque the engine can deliver, which is also the reason why you don't have to downshift even on steeper hills or roundabouts. It's not fast, but it's determined :D

[@tedrobinson372]

@@AstraWerke thank you for the,added explanation. I too drive an A and marvel at its wide torque range. Now I feel more justified not shifting down as frequently with a modern high RPM engine.

[@AdamTillontheWeb]

So neat, thanks for making this!

[@sheep1ewe]

Interesting, thank You for sharing this!

[@bradfordeaton6558]

40 Horsepower may have been at the flywheel which would make your readings about right.

[@chrisrhodes5464]

That is real good for what you have Ford could have been giving flywheel horsepower and you have chassis horsepower with in 10 HP of flywheel horsepower

[@Blurredman]

my '79 buick 350 is only rated at 145lbs torque! Awesome!

[@rhekman]

Not to add insult to injury, but does you Buick make peak torque at 1300 rpm?

[@Blurredman]

@@rhekman exactly. I think it redlines at 3.8k max.. That said I'd love to see the MPG that astrawerk gets from his Ford.

[@AstraWerke]

@@Blurredman My average over the last 8 months is around 17mpg. 3.3l of displacement want do be fed xD

[@Blurredman]

@@AstraWerke English gallons or American? Either way that's not bad I'd say..!

[@AstraWerke]

@@Blurredman Oh, my bad - I used american gallons here. It's around 14 litres /100km, just to be clear.

[@danielhomant2832]

I would love to put my 31 Packard on a Dyno to see the power graphs. 319" (5.2L) straight 8 rated for 100hp. And it moves that big car right along with ease. The reason the graph for the A is like a diesel is because they are built the same way. Large cylinder displacement with long stroke engines. Nowadays, a 4 cylinder of that size would be unheard of, heh.

[@AstraWerke]

Oh, I'd be very interested in the results of that! Packard built some incredibly beautiful and well-engineered cars in those days - I bet it'll be a torque monster!

[@danielhomant2832]

Well, Germany is a long drive from the US, but I don't doubt you could find a variety of pre-war era cars, but those willing to Dyno run, eh, not do much, heh. Maybe even make a thing of it. A possible point of interest could be the performance differences between a US spec and UK spec car due to the different engines used as a result of taxing laws. It would be a great way to see the effects of various "improvements" that people would do. Such as a B model head on an A model, the ubiquitous Stromberg carb on an early flathead V8, etc.

[@AstraWerke]

@@danielhomant2832 Pre-War is a dieing breed, unfortunately. And they are guarded like a holy grail - the Model A-ers are the folk that drive the most, while many others rarely see the light of day. Putting one on the dyno... even rarer xD

[@danielhomant2832]

@@AstraWerke oh absolutely. Numerous Model A, and a few other common pre war domestics around home. I have the only known Packard within a couple hours that is even somewhat road worthy. The other two are post war parts cars. It seems that every fourth house has some kind of popular 50's through 70's muscle car. Going to shows and meets, most of the owners and interested people for pre war are 60's and up. It's all about resto-mod muscle. Or if they are older, convertible, roadsters and at least coupes. I am completely out of place with my big 7 passenger sedan that I drive any chance I can. Even on muddy roads in the rain! Heh.

[@AstraWerke]

@@danielhomant2832 Over here, it's tons and tons of '80s cars - even to me, they just aren't "Oldtimers" - they're just some old car that got hyped because it's old and no different to operate than a modern car. And of course, they're all lowered, with wide tyres and whatnot... More a tuning show than an old car meeting. A few times a year, there's a dedicated pre-war meeting here and there - my car is always the dirtiest, but also the one that starts up first - because it's not a trailer queen that gets dragged from show to show, but actually drives itself there :)

[@richardbrobeck2384]

cool video

[@paulmontagner6360]

40 horse power at the fly wheels like a vw

[@BonnieKay13]

Ford's was rated as with a new and full powered engine, not something worn and used, but more or less broken in. Shave .125 off the head, then see what happens. Mine was clocked by police at 92 MPH back in 1951, it had plenty of power, dual carbs, cam, the works.

[@AstraWerke]

My guess is they measured engine hp, whilst we measured wheel hp. I can easily see 6hp getting lost in the drivetrain with the SAE250 oil and all that. Seeing that the engine performs just fine, I'll leave the head where it is until the gasket starts to leak - then, we can talk about removing material from it.

[@jrom213]

Flat power curve? It is all about the scaling huh ;-) For the next run, advance your timing by 5 degrees, there must be more potential in your engine.

[@AstraWerke]

That'd most likely bring up the figures a little more - trouble is that the amount of advance you can give is limited by the travel of the ignition lever. If I advance it too much, then I won't be able to retard the timing enough for it to not kick back during startup.

[@genegarbis8746]

How did you get the T to rev so high on the second pull ?? T crankshafts Have no counterweights , I'll bet they never even weigh the rods or pistons ,it turns so slow ,,,. I just can't believe this , I looked at it twice,,. to see how I missed the engine swap ,,,,, I didn't,,, this has to be a joke 4to 500 hp ?? I won't even mention the unreal torque specs ??

[@AstraWerke]

First off its a Model A, secondly, I edited both the sound and the flames on the exhaust. The graph is from an Audi R8. Gotcha! xD

[@genegarbis8746]

@@AstraWerke good try bro ! I can't believe how many people brought this ,,, what ever happened to common sense ?

[@uhadme]

For models T & A Tesla models S 3 X & Y

[@pr191148]

Der Motor hat Potential, eine gute Drehmomentkurve, jetzt nur noch die Abgase verbessern mit Alkohol...

[@AstraWerke]

Ich denke auch, wenn die Jungs bei der AU ein paar Klare intus haben, bekomm ich die Plakette eher, als nüchtern ;P

[@1NIGHTMAREGAMER]

and engine is rlly old so some things could be worn down causing power loss

[@blubb7711]

Hast du dir mal überlegt die Kompression zu erhöhren?

[@AstraWerke]

Kann man machen, möchte ich aber nicht, weil dann die Belastung der Lager steigt - und das möchte ich bei druckloser Schmierung vermeiden.

[@blubb7711]

@@AstraWerke das ist natürlich ein Argument… wobei das ja sehr viele gemacht haben, hab aber nicht so viel Ahnung von vintage Autos haha

[@AstraWerke]

@@blubb7711 Stimmt, das war und ist eine weitverbreitete Sache. Für meinen Teil bin ich aber vollkommen zufrieden mit der Leistung, die der Wagen bringt - ich komme alle Berge hoch, halte den Verkehr nicht auf - und schneller als 80 will ich mit der Kiste sowieso nicht unterwegs sein. Da fahr ich lieber gemütlich und hab den Motor dafür 10 Jahre länger - ist schließlich ein 90 Jahre altes Auto und kein Golf 2.

[@76629online]

I’m sure you would’ve measured more horsepower if you weren’t using the rear wheels of that car to also drive the front end of the dyno and the front wheels on the car.

[@AstraWerke]

I guess the friction loss from the dyno is pre-determined and deducted from the result. Either way, it'd probably be the more real-life result as to what power is actually put onto the road and not lost in friction.

[@76629online]

@@AstraWerke The difference is when the car is going down the road inertia is what is driving the front wheels. There is a difference.

[@AstraWerke]

@@76629online But the rear wheels still have to push the front wheels along, they don't turn on their own. The dyno will add extra friction due to the roller mechanism which the road doesn't.

[@chronicawareness9986]

k swap it

[@joevald3]

If I'm correct these cars had flywheel magneto's which would almost be impossible to get a reading from .

[@AstraWerke]

Nope, that was the Model T, it's predecessor. The Model A already has the standard coil and distributor setup, but since the spark plug wires are bare strips of brass, interference is through the roof.

[@craigdixon4113]

A Tractor with an Amish Coach. Thanks

[@clarkb1900]

So... A side-valve, carbureted engine, WITH MANUAL IGNITION TIMING, which was built before my GRANDPARENTS were born, makes equivalently the same power output as a dual-overhead-cam, electronically fuel-injected, 10-year-old Toyota 4-cylinder with a computerized engine management system, AND.. manages to get only 10mpg less than my Corolla, despite being larger, and run through a 3-speed manual in a car that's ALMOST as aerodynamic as a CONESTOGA WAGON. ...For some reason, I can't shake the feeling I'm getting scammed. ;l

[@AstraWerke]

Never underestimate our ancestors!

[@Ozsmallbore]

No... You may have the same torque figure, but you have several times more horsepower from less than 1/2 the capacity. Also far greater reliability So no you are not being scammed

[@tomk3732]

Model A == tractor.

[@johnnyrocket6588]

I would say no. A model t is more like a tractor

[@alexlail7481]

My understanding is the early engines architecture are all pretty closely related mechanically, mostly refined versions of the previous engines...model T engine -> model A engine which split paths with the 9n, 2n, and 8n tractor engine along one path and the Model B 4 cylinder & Flathead v-8 along the other. They even submitted the tractor engine for use in the WWII jeep during initial development and briefly used it in '42 for vehicles up to the 1 ton truck... so it is kinda all related

[@shankararya1088]

Model a doesn't sound like that.