Moiraine Was RIGHT!

I have noticed a surge in Moiraine criticism, and I want to push back against it. IMO this Aes Sedai is the soul of the wheel of time series early on and sacrificed so much for some farm boys.
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[@DanielGreeneReviews]

I deff mean this title from a more logical than literal perspective. Academically Moiraine is right. In practice, there were certainly times she was wrong. But this is more about her education and understanding VS these farm boys she picked up. EDIT: PLEASE BE VERY CAREFUL OF SPOILERS IN THIS COMMENT SECTION! This is probably the most intense editing I have ever done. Idk if it comes across, but the first half especially, was so much fun. There might be a part two where I do how Moiraine was wrong and present the other side of things!

[@elizabethlin_9879]

"They don't stay here, they go off, and they touch shit." A adequate analysis of a lot of what Mat does 😂

[@am3703]

That was solid green screen work, enjoyed it a lot. I don't usually re-read books but this video makes me want to purely for Moiraine. Off topic video request, a "My problem with (blank)" in the same style as the problem with YA videos, not in a negative way but more as a discussion of certain subgenres/parts of fantasy. Have a nice day to anyone reading this :)

[@myrdraal2001]

Loving the pink but what's up with the ghost pants that are there but aren't?

[@derpimusmaximus8815]

@@myrdraal2001 Made of the same material as a warder's cloak.

[@gizzad]

Dude I love your channel so much!!! Just found it. I'm watching all of them!

[@karsonwalker548]

I didn't like Moiraine until we got to meet so many other Aes Sedai. After that, I was like, "Damn, I miss Moiraine. She was so much cooler than most of these people."

[@Altrantis]

Moiraine is the Obi Wan of Aes Sedai. The exemplar, everything they're *supposed* to be.

[@heygus20]

Daniel has Warder pants. Also I stan Moiraine since read 1. Such a complex and grounded character.

[@Canadian169]

I came to the comments here to say the EXACT same thing about his pants!

[@evilemuempire9550]

I don’t cry very often, but there are two specific scenes with her that I was bawling my eyes out

[@definitelynotobama6851]

A really huge part of Moiraine's character development is her realization of what Rand being so strongly ta'veren actually means. It may be that he's so strongly ta'veren that he actually CANNOT be guided on his major decisions. That's really hard for Moiraine, who has spent decades at this point as an Aes Sedai and is used to all the clout and power associated with that. Watching her come to that realization is the conclusion of her whole character arc, and having a character arc like this for a mentor figure is definitely impressive. It's quite a journey.

[@thebkg]

For her it's even more ingrained because her upbringing before even becoming Aes Sadai was the royal court of a people genetically predisposed to political intruige so deeply in their society that they'll insert meaning into why someone is washing clothes in a different fashion than they do. So yeah. Moraine had it genetically and environmentally. Her submission to Rand was her final method for influencing him. Which was both genius and bludgeoning to her soul. But she would do anything, sacrifice anything to prepare him to win the battle! Edit: Because my sleep deprived brain couldn't work out the words I really wanted to use the first time. The struggle is real. ALSO, Dude (or Dudette)! Thanks for the like, that was like a minute after I posted it.

[@sapisjan]

And it's a beautiful symmetry that her first and last lessons were 'how to surrender to gain control'.

[@thebkg]

@@sapisjan Very N. I. C. E. That's an excellent catch!

[@SimplyCookingToo]

Michael Christenson yeah; is definitely say she’s a good character because she does grow and goes from overbearing and dismissive to almost submissive and cooperative and caring

[@confessorsedai]

Paweł Kęcerski True... yet she achieved the shawl in 6 year, 3 as a Novice & 3 as an Accepted. Within the couple years it took to reach her full potential, she belonged in the group of the most powerful Aes Sedai (aside Cadsuane) and only 3 others equaled her in strength (plus Romanda in Retirement)... She and Siuan are the reason Rand fulfilled prophecy, not to mention killing/ taking care of a few Forsaken. Moiraine is the fucking bee’s knees my friend!

[@gooberato]

Moiraine is my favorite grey old wizard mentor ever. Moiraine is BAE.

[@hilan8737]

I think an important point is Thom's influence on the Emond's Field boys.His disdain for Aes Sedai sort of bolstered the Emond's Fielders initial distrust in Moiraine early on in EOTW. I think this is especially true considering how much Thom ended up influencing the boys during their brief journey together in other facets.

[@Gunleaver]

Also, his teaching was more immediately useful to them. People call Moiraine a "mentor figure" but how much of her teachings did Rand or Mat put to use after they were separated from her in Eye of the World? Nothing. But Thom got them passage on Domon's ship, his teaching kept them fed and sheltered on the road to Caemlyn, and he even provided them with a contact in Caemlyn, where they found safety & sustenance until Moiraine was able to find them, and where they met Loial. Hell, Thom even was the one to make it clear the Children of the Light posed a danger and taught Rand everything he knew about the Prophecies before Siuan came to Fal Dara. Thom is the MVP mentor figure of EotW. Given all that, who on earth would trust Moiraine over Thom?

[@opalanaanneoreoluwa6951]

@@Gunleaver I believe you are correct, that Thom spent more time with them, and could by extension get them advice, And you can have multiple streams of advice, one advice doesn't make the others irrelevant, But not all the way, well Thom played a major role in their lives he caused the distrust they had for Aes Sedai due to his own experience with them without getting to know Moiraine personally. From what I've noticed you seem to not like Moiraine for some reason 🤷 , but at the end of the day Moiraine had better understanding of the prophecy then Thom did, which was what was needed the most not understanding of the houses with was what Thom known most (not to say his understanding and talent were not important). and this is why Moiraine's is better than most well she understood that the Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills and that in someways Thom will be important to them, even this she doesn't know him and has no reason to trust him (she rather than jugde him) and you may say he has no reason to trust Aes Sedai due to his past (but due to her past she has not reason to trust his, he might he a dark friend, after all why will he be interested in following them right after she found the Dragon reborn). It personal for her too. And they should listen to Thom to get the throne, but they should listen to Moiraine to save the world (and Moiraine advice was important to Rand, not to Mat because he barely spent time with her. Thom's advice was got for rand when he was with Rand and not after Moiraine's advice was with Rand even after her supposed death.

[@Gunleaver]

@@opalanaanneoreoluwa6951 Moiraine had spent as much time with Mat as she did Rand by Shadar Logoth, and no, her advice about saving the world was generally bad, too. Thom's advice might have been better, because his advice often had a moral aspect, which is whatbis ultimately the most important thing when it comes to saving the world. Moiraine taught Rand to be paranoid & suspicious and to use peole instead of lwading by example. Rand goes down to disaster in PoD by doing what Moiraine trained him to do - use nobles he does not trust to fight a war so they are too busy to plot against him, keep secrets, send his rivals to be killed by his enemies and use saudin & Callandor to make up the difference in battle. That's what she wanted him to do against Illian in Tear. Rand wisely refused, instinctively understanding that there was something wrong with Callandor & he couldn't safely wield it. Instead, he made treaties and sent the nobles & their armies on a mission of mercy and it worked out better in the long term than Moiraine's plans. Moiraine thinks like an Aes Sedai and she admits in the end that view was flawed. Whatever her good qualities, the video is incoorect that she was always right & the Two Rivers folk should always defer to her greater experience.

[@opalanaanneoreoluwa6951]

@@Gunleaver I guess you are correct, but again Mat did spend time with Moiraine not has must time anyways. They were all to busy with survive through the journey it wasn't until later that spending true time began and Mat didn't spent the with Moiraine (barely did they engage in a conversation). Also just a small point Moiraine's advice wasn't the only reason Rand was paranoid. It's everything that happened also (aside from Thom's and Moiraine's advice to not trust Aes Sedai) it's what they did not him, foolish people 😒😒. But I understand now that her Advice in politics were trash 🗑️ 😂😂. But not her advice in survival (when the trollocs were after them). She could have done a better job.

[@cgscuba89]

Moraine was a badass. I love when she's come back and stops everyone from arguing. Totally shocks everyone. Especially Rand.

[@penguinposter9177]

Fuck bro God damn it

[@penguinposter9177]

I shouldn't have read the comments

[@sechay9328]

For me one of the most pivotal scenes in getting me to appreciate Moraine was when she switched tactics on Rand. She promised to stop trying to control him and to do what he says, and in exchange all she wanted was to be allowed in, and to give her advice and then he could do what he wanted. And she really did it, their dynamic shifted drastically but she was at least able to give him advice.

[@Dunstan9]

Yet, she openly admits to Egwene that said “submission” is just her trying to switch over to a more Saidar-ish method of manipulating him. About the only time Moiraine every truly “let go” was in her talk with Rand before the Last Battle about whether or not he should kill the Dark One. Just about every other word out of her mouth to him has hidden motives. All the submission is about,, is an attempt to get him to look for them less.

[@frocat5163]

I agree completely. This was also the point where I legitimately started disliking Egwene, because of her reaction to Moiraine's "switch."

[@Dunstan9]

adam harp Egwene with the Wise Ones is pretty much her at her absolute worst. Hell, I think a lot of the problems with her with the Aes Sedai ARE problems, simply because they come after her time with them established much of our picture of who she is.

[@frocat5163]

@@Dunstan9 Absolutely. The only thing about her time with the Aiel that I eventually liked was when she was able to adopt the Aiel approach to accepting pain. To me, that was an emotionally powerful bit of storytelling and character development. Other than that, though, I think the Wise Ones did nothing for her except amplify her negative character traits.

[@GeorgeKinsill]

For me the pivotal point that made me appreciate Moraine was the introduction of Cadsuane. I agree with Sanderson: "You're not my real Mom Cadsuane1 Her name is Moraine, and I want her back!"

[@camiban2069]

I think the issue with Moiraine is how secretive she comes across in the POVs of the boys. They see it like she's belittling them and from their perspective she's secretive. It gives you the impression she is hiding something and is evil. It's only when Rand and Co mature that they start to understand how important and calculating she was.

[@totesmagotes213]

One of the interesting things about the series is the flawed perspectives of each character. When you do a reread, you realize that many things you thought to be true upon first read were only flawed thoughts of that POV character.

[@subpages]

If anything that's her one major flaw. She's been running around on her own mission for years, and doesn't really know how to lead as well as she could have. A little more carrot would have gone a long way at the start.

[@fredrikfjeld1575]

She is secretive about things that would and could kill them there and then and she is acting arrogant toward teenagers and doing every mistake that you can possible do when you try to handle people that age. If everyone sees it as belittling, then it actually is just that. She could have taken two seconds to actually explain something, but doesn't, so the books can happen and she can be the douche she was written as. Like, how she told them to stay put and not touch anything. Try to tell that to a 6 year old. He touches stuff. Tell that to 18 year old boys? They will not follow those instructions. If however she had explained things to them, they might not have! So pretty much everything they do wrong, can be blamed on her. And still she probably is the only saveable women in the entire series. Everyone else is written as if Jordan had never met a single women and just thought of all of them as scheming, manipulating, mean and evil. Moiraine doesn't do pretty much anything to disprove their superstition about them either and pretty much just tries to use that fear against them. Which backfires. Imagine someone just trying to force their own opinions and magic down on you, without your consent and without you having anything to say on it. Then suddenly you have the power to actually not having anyone to force you around anymore. Imagine your dad hitting you, and then you suddenly find out that you can stop him. Doesn't matter if he hit you with love, you would still stand up to the abuse.

[@OtherTheDave]

Ethan Clemens How much less could you care?

[@Gunleaver]

@Stirgid Lanathiel She absolutely does NOT tell them explicitly to not touch anything. The topic comes up when Lan says the shadowspawn "...will not enter that place." They go to Shadar Logoth, and Moiraine says nothing until they see the city, note that it is uninhabited and wonder what it was called. "It was called Aridhol. In the days of the Trolloc Wars, it was an ally of Manetheren. Later Aridhol did and this place was called by another name." When Mat asks the name she says "Shadar Logoth. It is called Shadar Logoth." Once they find shelter in the city, her primary topic of conversation is her own medical needs. She says nothing directly to the boys and no one says anything that so much as implies there is anything dangerous about the city. The ONLY thing the boys know about it is that it was an ally of Manetheren. Moiraine brought up the topic back in Emond's Field, where she was chastising the villagers for not being more like Manetheren. Then, when Mat starts shouting Manetheren battle cries in the Old Tongue, she tells them what the words meant, both the translation and their context with regard to Manetheren, and smiles at Mat and Egwene, who spoke, and felt a connection to, the words, respectively. So they are getting nothing but positive reinforcement from Moiraine about Manetheren and then she tells them NOTHING about Shadar Logoth but its name history and that it was an ally of Manetheren. She does not mention the alliance turning to enmity and the death of a Manetheren Prince (who was probably Aemon's father), until the boys decide to take advantage of the safety she led them to believe exists by exploring their people's old ally. Mantheren & Aridhol were allies. They both died out and are known today by different names. That's all the boys know, and to say that implies they should have been nervous or worried is like saying they should be afraid of the Two Rivers, where Manetheren died. Rand had plenty of time to stare at all the buildings with no input from Moraine. There was arguably time to tell them en route to the ruins. She could have spared a second to tell them to be careful before going off with Nynaeve to sack out. She did not. And she is the one in charge, she is the one who is responsible for what happens. Rand and Mat and Nynaeve are RIGHT to blame Moiraine for what happened to Mat as a result.

[@divyesh94]

I remember when I read Eye of the World I was convinced Moiraine was evil and had her own motives for bringing the Emonds Field folk along with her. May have to do a reread before the show comes out.

[@frocat5163]

Interesting. I've had conversations with multiple people who had this same perspective the first time they read _Eye of the World,_ and even some of the other first few books. I never came to that conclusion; I just thought she was a manipulative bitch with obvious ulterior motives. I think I was overly meta with it, assuming that Jordan was writing her to _appear_ potentially evil so the eventual reveal she wasn't what she appeared would be a kind of twist / revelation.

[@wildfire160]

I read it first in1990 and my reaction was very different,i loved her character really loved it ...but i reread it last month and my reaction was very different as a have mostly disliked her this time around(or at least not liked her as much)..

[@genghisgalahad8465]

Her(SPOILERS EYE OF THE WORLD!) retelling of the history of (SPOILERS) Emonds Field sealed my respect for her character as I'm reading WOT. She has grown before my eyes in stature...

[@yoavshamir9055]

I actually really respected her at first but less liked her in book 3 and 4, where I have started seeing her as too manipulative.

[@Mikemk_]

I thought Thom was the Dragon

[@Ialliac]

Moiraine: "Shadar Logoth is the most dangerous place in all of the world!"" The Two Rivers folk: "Why couldn't you mention this before?" Moiraine: "Because f&%* you!

[@IrisAsuras]

Yes! She didn't actually warn them in advance.

[@Gunleaver]

Moiraine: "Shadar Logoth as a carnivorous mist that comes out at night. Keep an eye out for it while we sneak out of the city. The Two Rivers Folk: "Moiraine, did you say something?" Moiraine: (out loud) "Stop asking questions! If you keep asking questions we'll never anywhere! I don't have time to explain every little thing to you."

[@teddytho]

basically lol. From her perspective, she dedicated her whole life to finding and guiding the dragon reborn, and all of a sudden she has to deal with a bunch of farm boys who know as much as john snow.

[@Gunleaver]

@@teddytho Yeah, but her perspective is stupid and inaccurate. Everyone in WoT has a well established and consistent position, and you can totally see why most people do what they do and think what they think. But Moiraine IS wrong, contra the title of the video.

[@jed4131]

Tugs braid

[@Sachmet88]

Loved the video! I was so infuriated on my first read through by how the farm boys (and Nynaeve) treated Moiraine! I stood with her from the beginning. ;)

[@SleepingTurtle1]

Nynaeve needs therapy.

[@GeekletReadsStuff]

I’m starting my first reread of WoT and my love for Moiraine has only grown. She’s the best. ❤️

[@wheelchazeal8089]

I too just started my first reread. I’m actually reading it aloud to kids and they love it. 😁

[@katherineweaver382]

I just started my first reread too!

[@shooglechic]

Agreed. I'm on my fourth and it just keeps getting better and I get those Ahahahh! moments with others' characters and the development of them.

[@janwouter5215]

Daniel: It would take an idiot to not listen to Moirane Moirane: stay here and don't touch anything Matt: hold my beer

[@fasdaVT]

Moraine says, "ok so we are going to be safe here but don't touch anything" Moraine thinks, ok if everything goes right we will be safe here and not killed by trollocs or the monster that lives here. Matt thinks, well she said it was safe and aes sedai don't lie, let's go exploring. Ooooh nice dagger good thing this is safe. Matt says later, AHH WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE IS A GIANT SHADOW HERE! THAT IS DEFINITELY NOT SAFE!

[@jessi4894]

Mat: Hold this dagger

[@DaDunge]

He couldn't have done anything else, Min had already seen the dagger around him and the wolves around Perrin, the pattern was set.

[@frocat5163]

@@DaDunge Oooooo...way to twist that dagger, bro.

[@janwouter5215]

@@DaDunge maybe in a world that could have been Matt never took the dagger

[@BonDeRado]

Moiraine is one of the very few Aes Sedai that actually do something useful against the Dark One prior to Tarmon Gai'don, and a certain twist about one of the others, in the end, speaks fifteen volumes on how useless, if not outright damaging, the others are: almost only concerned with internal power struggles and attempts (sometimes uncoordinated) to manipulate kings and peasants to further their ends. Even the best of them never give straight answer so they can lie by omission or obfuscation... honestly, why would anyone think "I just met an Aes Sedai for the first time in my life and she is different from the rest. I am the luckiest guy in the world". With all the good that can be said about her, Moiraine, at least in the beginning, seems oblivious to this simple consideration, and she was concerned mainly with controlling Rand by virtue of her superior upbringing and secret knowledge. Later interactions with other Aes Sedai would cast both lights (by contrast) and lowercase-shadows (by association) on Moiraine, so to trust her is never a simple choice for Rand. Now, I grant that she had very little time to build a reciprocal bond of trust with the Emondfielders at the beginning, but still... a little more effort would not cause many problems. Regrding Shadar Logoth, let's be fair to the guys: a bunch of high ranking Aes Sedai, the pinnacle of education and level headedness, enter Tel'aran'rhiod with the first Dreamer in millennia, are told by said Dreamer, "please stay close, whatever you think might spring to life and kill you" and what they do is scoff, abandon their guide, practically end-up in trolloc cauldrons and are narrowly saved by the aforementioned Dreamer.

[@divod2k9]

I got a coworker of mine to read the eye of the world and she asked me about half way through if Moirane was a baddie. It genuinely took me a moment to remember how dodgy the character seemed that first read and how by the end of the series she was literally the only person in the entire series that you could trust.

[@mmccrownus2406]

??? You could trust Perrin, Mat, Morgase, the good Ashamaen, etc.

[@dark_ones_taint5993]

Beyond just finding the EF5 and rescuing them, she handled the whole situation brilliantly. That’s not to say it was mistake-free but she learned and adapted on some Bear Grylls shit. Even after saving their asses, they don’t win without her. Hell, they don’t grow without her.

[@altoguy16499]

That description of the night in Shadar Logath was perfect. Just *chefs kiss*.

[@jasonvanmeir3978]

Moiraine: “Don’t touch anything this city is haunted” Mat: “How about NO”

[@Gunleaver]

@@jasonvanmeir3978 Sane person who has actually READ "The Eye of the World": "Hey, Moiraine, telling them the city is haunted and they should not touch anything would be REALLY smart! Why didn't you do that?" Daniel Green: "She DID tell them! Right inbetween inventing sa'angreal, slaying five Forsaken and teaching Rand to channel! I am an expert in Wheel of Time lore, and I think I will make a video belittling fans with different opinions!"

[@daniellebroadhurst8426]

Having just finished New Spring for the first time during my second read through of WoT it really made me appreciate her and her position so much more! Have always loved her but it really helps define her dedication to finding Rand. And her distrust of everyone...

[@KalRandom]

Agree so much.

[@DaDunge]

I love new spring.

[@ActionNerdGo]

I'm about to start a re-read. Where do you recommend fitting in New Spring?

[@daniellebroadhurst8426]

@@ActionNerdGo I followed Daniel's advice and read it after 5 👌

[@Gunleaver]

Probably better to read it where it was published, after 8 (Path of Daggers) or 10 (Crossroads of Twilight). It was originally published as a short story in the Legends anthology. I distinctly remember a reference to an event by a particular name in PoD, which not many people used to describe that even, and wondering what the character was talking about, and then in New Spring, that reference is explained. Also, an important character makes a dramatic entrance into the series in book 7, but the character is also in New Spring. A secret aspect of the Aes Sedai is first mentioned in book 6, but it's also explained to the characters in New Spring. Daniel Greene is utterly hopeless at keeping events straight or remembering the sequence or in which books they occur, so while his advice was probably well meant, it was also bad.

[@finchbird2419]

Can I just say that the actress for Moraine is exactly how I pictured her in my head every time I read this series?

[@DaDunge]

Really? Not even close in my case, but I love Rosamunda Pike so I will buy it.

[@frocat5163]

@@DaDunge Me, too. When Rosamund was announced, my first thought was, "WTF? She looks _nothing_ like Moiraine!" I got over it pretty quickly

[@tobiaskuschill4633]

i just watched the movie marie curie with rosamund in the leading role and let me say, they couldn't have picked a better actress.

[@naraoia4450]

@@frocat5163 I had no idea who she was, and she didn't look like my headcanon, but I watched a brief interview with her when the casting came out. She convinced me in five minutes flat.

[@frocat5163]

@@naraoia4450 Yep. Costume, makeup, and camera tricks can make someone look completely different, but if the person can't play the part, appearance is irrelevant.

[@gabrielblanchard3921]

Moiraine was my favorite character from the beginning. (There were one or two times when I was terrified Jordan would reveal she'd been a secret Darkfriend the whole time or something, but my fears never came true, obvi.) On my first read-through she did come off as haughty and evasive sometimes, but even that felt like having a rounded character with credible flaws, not her being a bad person; and her occasional haughtiness and secrecy seemed kind of justified, given her incredible power, education, and heritage. It wasn't until watching through this that I fully appreciated that honestly, no, she wasn't really even being haughty!

[@bretsheeley4034]

"At this point you would have to be a complete idiot to-Oh hi, Mat."

[@TheCyborgMC]

I've only read the series once and Moraine was the one character that I never had any disdain for. She was actually the one character that seemed pretty level headed most of the time - when almost every other character made me want to pull my hair out at least once.

[@finghinmccarthy5021]

These style videos are by far the my favourite, I just love the energy and passion you can see oozing through, I can tell the are Daniels favourite to make

[@DanielGreeneReviews]

Helps that I drank like 2 cups of coffee right before this one. haha

[@Piqipeg]

The title should be "Moraine THINKS she's always right", especially when you re-read and get to the part where she holds Rand couped up for MONTHS waiting for the right signs, meanwhile Rands ta'veren senses are SCREAMING at him to move to the next prophecy bit.

[@TamaynIrraniah]

Thank you! That's the key point that really frustrated me about the Aes Sedai thing. Yes, she has her training, and yes, she's naturally suspicious considering she grew up Cairhienin, but she is not ta'veren. There has to be a final battle, and if she believes so heavily in the dragon reborn and the prophesies, why does she not have faith in those prophesies coming to pass? I think it is because of her Cairhinen, most likely, but for the moment, I still think that Moiraine, while sometimes a really fun character, did not have enough faith and had way too much way too much Aes Sedai haughtiness.

[@Piqipeg]

@@TamaynIrraniah she confesses to not know how to interpret the prophecies and chooses to interpret them one way, and that way only (she's just as stubborn as the tworivers folk). All the mistrust Rand and the boys give her isn't entirely unwarranted, and could she have had open up slightly more to them they would've trusted her more. Perrin came to trust her more when he travelled alone with her, because she opened up a bit more, it went away when she closed up again.

[@TamaynIrraniah]

@@Piqipeg Thinking back, that is an excellent point about opening up and how much it made things more simple when people have some idea of what's going on. Also, just throwing it out there, the major climaxes and pretty much every ending, Moiraine is only sometimes there. Book 2 specifically finishes the way it does because she's not there. Really anytime Rand takes out a darkfriend, Moiraine is not there.

[@bovarfririksson2449]

If you want respect and trust you must give some to get some. Yes they are naive young men, but would you rather have a respectful naive young men or resentful young men. One would have thought that being a Cairhienin and an Aes Sedai she would have given that some thought through the 19 years of searching for the Dragon reborn.

[@jessi4894]

75% of problems and conflict in WoT could be easily resolved by two or more characters having a heart to heart.

[@M4RRKL33C33]

I'm on my first read of the series and I still love her. She's amazing.

[@roolenoir3183]

I like her too.

[@naraoia4450]

Definitely read New Spring, then! (I adore Young Moiraine. I also laugh at her a lot. Fondly. NS does kinda show you why she doesn't trust anyone...)

[@vitorfernandes1312]

I get very frustrated because of how little they trust her despite ALL she does literally all the time to keep them safe.

[@finchbird2419]

"it would take an idiot not to listen to you in this city" Matt

[@patrimcauthon478]

The Wheel weaves right. He really had no choice in the matter.

[@cadenvanvalkenburg6718]

@@patrimcauthon478 No. I refuse that interpretation. There have been times when the dragon fought for the dark one, etcetera. Its always different. There might be a script, but they can ad lib.

[@TheDjMoo]

Moiraine is an incredible character and we could spend hours talking about it. Let's just say that she has so many incredible moments that really drive the story forward and present a shift in tone. Her speech to really hook us and the village, her sacrifice, etc.

[@gailedon]

I don't agree with everything here, especially not getting upset with Rand for wanting someone to ask before messing with his body. He is feeling incredibly powerless at that point. That everything is the pattern and that he has no say in his life or future, and so one of the very few things he has any control of is his own body. Moiraine despite good intentions takes that away when she doesn't ask before healing him. I do agree that Moiraine is a great character and definitely learns as she goes along. She is one of my favorite characters in the series, but she most assuredly makes mistakes.

[@MacongaHarri]

Daniel Genie, with his wispy legs and his world editing powers.

[@iBarbequeSinners]

I actually started my very first read of the series with New Spring (it was VERY confusing) and I loved Moiraine! I was always like “what the f*ck is wrong with these stupid kids. She’s an angel trying to save your lives”

[@colinfitz9792]

My sister and I have finished the series, and my bro is on book 8 and we had totally different opinions. My sister loved her, my brother hated/hates her, I was really suspicious of her until it was too late. In book 5 I began to understand why she was awesome and then BAM. So ya... that letter hit hard

[@RichGirlRG]

I started reading Wheel Of Time from the “New Spring”. So basically Moraine was my favorite from the very beginning. I’m on book 5 now.

[@a.3032]

This video was pure gold. Love that you're a Moiraine stan. She deserves the world

[@jjones42]

Rand, book four: I have a Ferrari! Morraine: Can I explain how to drive stick? Or at least what a car is? Rand: Vroom, vroom! How hard can it be?

[@Gunleaver]

It's more like, Rand has to get somewhere fast, and a lot of people are depending on him. *Rand:* Will you show me how to drive? *Moiraine:* I'm a woman. We don't drive stick. I cannot teach you to drive any more than a man can teach a woman to drive an automatic. Rand: Well, then, I'm going to have to take the car out on the road myself and try to learn through trial and error. *Moiraine:* No, you fool! You could ruin everything! Later, after Rand gets Asmodean a driving instructor by disregarding all of Moiraine's (stupid) plans for him to not only drive to Illian but to get behind the wheel of the big rig called Callandor and rely on its raw power to make the trip successful for a first time driver: *Asmodean:* I'm teaching the best I can. It's hard for men to teach each other without a woman involved. *Rand:* Well, I can't tell Moiraine, she's paranoid about the risk of my falling to the Shadow and never wants me to do anything. *Moiraine:* Hum de dum dum, let me sit and listen through the bug I planted in Rand's car. I wonder if I should tell him I know all about Asmodean, and I understand why he did it, so he will see that I am not an unreasonable bitch? .... Nah. If I get involved, I'd become invested in his agenda. By keeping quiet, I can sit back and ridicule his judgment and driving skills if Asmodean tries to grab the wheel or he crashes, and then he'll HAVE to take my advice!

[@jasonsalter65]

I liked Moiraine on my first read through, since with my second read through she been my favorite character in series. This video has given me an even greater appreciation for her. I don't think she was right about everything, but I can for sure see where she was coming from.

[@shantilaselucia8107]

I just realized that RJ did a phenomenal job making me see Moiraine through the mistrusting boys's eyes and that's what stuck with me a lot, even after rereads (last books only twice, rest more). I like her but somehow I also didn't want her to put a leash on Rand because AS? But she is the good one and I recommend all first readers reading New Spring and then starting a reread of the series because that helps understanding her and feeling for her so much more due to her PoV's. Thanks, Daniel, for her perspective. I will keep it in mind on my next reread.

[@kp29]

Watching this I realized that Moiraine is in just the five books before coming back. Her presence is so ubiquitous even after she's gone.

[@jobo5300]

I am on my first read through and my problem with Moiraine is that she doesn't trust anyone but expects others to trust her unconditionally. This just seems to me like a basic fact of human interaction that lasting trust needs to be mutual. As I read it, this is also the reason for Rand's attitude towards her in Book 2.

[@Dunstan9]

That, and just the fact that she, in yet another attempt to manipulate him, had been pointedly just straight up ignoring him for the entire month between TEotW and TGH. “By the way, you are a male channeler... whelp, have fun with that. Bye 👋 “. He even mentions how he’d TRIED to reach out to her, only to get turned away.

[@nvwest]

Shgon Dunstan at about him having to deal with being a male channeler. That scene where Elayne and Egwene try to teach him was one of my favourite scenes. One of the few moments where one of the guys actually communicate their inner struggles with their friends. Character interaction based scenes like those are always amongst my favourites, far more so than battle scenes. Like when perrin tells faile, or when Mat tells Thom and Noal

[@DaDunge]

She really doesn't care much if people trust her so long as they do what she wants them to do, and as a general rule Moiraine can always get people to do what she wants them to do.

[@DaDunge]

@@Dunstan9 Because she realized how scared he was and that if she acted in any way he might bolt before the Amyrlin got there.

[@Dunstan9]

Fredrik Dunge only... she didn’t actually know the Amyrlin was coming, so...

[@averylee4302]

dude, I wish you would stop pretending that the Aes Sedai's reputation wasn't at least partially justified by their actions. Even some of the ones who didn't fall to the shadow are pretty nasty, and they as a group do deserve a less than sterling reputation even if groups like the White Cloaks take it too far.

[@MrSmokinDragon]

this 100%. They manipulate and coerce everyone, and has done so for thousands of years. I think is is entirely justified that people are really skeptical of their motivations and their advise.

[@Xunre]

@@MrSmokinDragon The Aes Sedai have no problems that would not be resolved by sending all of them for interpersonal skills training and some of them for therapy for malignant narcissism. Cadsuane should be prosecuted for patient abuse.

[@menelson45]

I don't recall if it was mentioned in books 1-5 but not only did she devote her entire life to finding, protecting and guiding the Dragon Reborn, she passed on becoming the White Tower backed, Aes Sedai Queen of Cairhien. The first openly Aes Sedai ruler in...hundreds, maybe a thousand years? She practically took a vow of poverty to accomplish her mission. Definately one of my all time favorite characters.

[@Archaon6044]

I read New Spring first, and it irrevocably coloured my perception of Moiraine and Lan. I was 14/15(?) and on my way through an airport. I stopped in the bookshop to find something new to read while I was at my destination (where I would be for about 3 weeks). I'd seen the WoT books on shelves before but didn't know anything about the series. I thought the smaller prequel would be a good taster of the series, upon which I could cut me teeth. The moral of the story is: Always begin at the beginning!

[@rhodie9338]

Hey, remember that time in The Great Hunt when the Fellowship of the Rand is attacked by trollocs, Perrin has a bunch of wolves show up to help out, then Moiraine heals every injured wolf she could find? I that doesn't scream "I care and I'm a force for good," then I don't know what does.

[@yoavshamir9055]

In book 4, Rand has an ego cause he has to. He thinks, and he is partially right, that if he isnt going to behave so, no one will listen to him. He also refuses to listen to Moriane because he is afraid she will manipulate him. Moriane isnt that wrong, but she has weak points, mainly her beilef that she knows best and can and should control everything. She knows much, but not all. Its clear she shouldnt just hand over anything at the start, but at the start of book 3, she could at least involve rand in making decisions instead of commanding and manipulating him. Then he would listen to her, and will correct her when she is wrong(and there are also such points too). Delibirately trying to keep him ignorant of the prophecies, trying to make all his other help go, not explaining anything, and just trying to make him tell her everything, is the exact opposite. She also cant control everything and must be flexible. She should also care more about the well-being of her companions, and treat them as companions. She isnt treating them badly, but she certainly does not seem to care more than is needed for the world, even when it does not collide. She treats them as subjects, which is bad. She isnt constantly wrong, and she does much right, but like everyone in the wheel of time, she has many flaws, and she does mistakes

[@Tuonela0]

Boy I disagree hard with many things in this video. Firstly, you changed my mind on Moraine's frustrations not being visible because we don't get her pov. I can fully understand this but I have never thought Mat or Perrin was totally right when it came to clashes with Aes Sedai but Rand was definitely in a different situation. The problem is that I have reread the first five books around December and I don't clearly remember the details. One thing I remember is that everyone treats Rand horribly in the early books. Mostly women always call him shepherded (as if to make him feel know your place before he got his ego) treat him like an idiot no matter what he does. I am not saying Rand is better off without Moraine's advice or other woman but that is not how you manipulate someone. Aes Sedai is supposed to be great manipulators but Moraine did a really bad job with that. You are talking about how much of a time bomb Rand is, I remember clearly the main reason for Rand's depression/dark feelings was that he was aware of himself being a time bomb but nobody gave any sympathy to him as soon as he was revealed to be dragon reborn. Nynaeve only knows how to be a hammer against every problem, Egwene sees two-person relationships as battles she has to fight and win (still I really like her character, Moraine was like "Okay I dedicated my life to this so you have to do everything by me and don't expect details ever and just blindly follow me". When there is a lot of responsibility on you and people can die due to consequences, the least you expect from advice on why you should follow them. Your explanation on Moraine not trusting Mat or Perrin fully can make sense but later in the story she doesn't treat Rand as an adult. Rand is mostly frustrated while going through huge pain (emotionally) and nobody cares about the boy's pain. They don't see the pain they only see Rand getting a huge ego. Of course, Rand lashes out because of the stress he was in. By the time they realized and tried to mend Rand it was too late because he had zero trust in women close to him having his best interest. After awhile Rand started acting stupid but at least they pushed him into that place collectively.

[@Dunstan9]

Yeah, one oddity with WoT, is everyone seems to have an EXTREMELY hard to so much as conceptualizing even the most basics of “The Dragon Reborn”. You would think “eternally reborn for a never ending war with the Dark One” wouldn’t be that hard a concept to grasp, but... nope. All in all, they treat the Dragon Reborn as little different then a False Dragon, just somehow more so. Yet, somehow, someway, MAT is the only one that ranks one of the Heroes of the Horn taking time out of the freaking Last Battle to berate him for his lack of gratitude to Rand... I mean, take a look at the rest of the freaking world lady. Mat doesn’t even hold a candle to them.

[@Gunleaver]

@@Dunstan9 I think that was Sandersonian fan-service. Brandon Sanderson wastes a lot of dialogue and characterization on things more appropriate to fan discussions in message boards, rather than the sorts of things the characters would do or say when Jordan wrote the books. Fans were always wishing the characters would talk or exchange information or find out things the readers know, but that was completely against the themes of the story. People only started caring about glory, fame, rankings and achievements in the final trilogy. Hawkwing lecturing Mat about his refusal to accept that he is the supporting character in a fantasy series and that his life and attitude should center around the main character is just one example.

[@lssnow8195]

There is this weird idea that because he is the main character, he is right and everyone should listen to him because he is the main character. Its circular logic that woulnd apply in real situation if you were in this world and was Moiraine, but it makes sense for the reader reading a fantasy novel about a chosen one. This video shows it pretty well.

[@Tuonela0]

@@lssnow8195 Nothin I said above says that Rand is always right and everyone should listen to him. Rand is a teenage country boy who gets lots of power and responsibility. Throughout the story, almost nobody empathizes with him. My point is that "The Great Aes Sedai" has no idea how to lead if they don't have all the power like a crime boss. Expecting better from Rand is funny when Daniel is just okay with Moraine doing her best.

[@lssnow8195]

​@@Tuonela0 If we take the premises at face value i think her actions make sense, the stakes are too high. Imagine in real world if there was almost certain nuclear apocalypse incoming and smallest mistake could end the world, feelings of a farm boy is not really the most important thing. Moiraine actions, and Aes Sedai trying to control Rand make perfect sense. Considering everything she is quite empathetic to Rand, but Rand is a angsty teenager.

[@anthonyd4277]

Really liked the video, but... Most of your beginning argument was she is a magical priest and they are simple farmers, so they should listen to her. My only argument would be that if she was truly wise she wouldn't have approached the farm boys like their better, Which she clearly does. Still... I love her and your content!

[@someguy7093]

"if she was truly wise she wouldn't have approached the farm boys like their better" thats pretty much how aes sedai just are, from their training or whatever. they all see themselves as the betters of anyone who isnt aes sedai. even when certain important people become stilled they get treated like children who dont know any better

[@frocat5163]

@@someguy7093 Exactly. The Aes Sedai have spent so long believing themselves superior to others simply because the Aes Sedai can channel, they are literally blind to all of the strengths anyone possesses that aren't channeling. Siuan's handling of the Aes Sedai in Salidar is one of my favorite story arcs in the series. I gained a serious respect for her after she was stilled.

[@someguy7093]

@@frocat5163 agreed that was one of my favorite arcs as well

[@xandara75]

But that is exactly how priests behave in the real world and they used to get away with it very often.

[@anthonyd4277]

Thanks for the replies my comrads!

[@DaDunge]

15:20 You really don't understand Moiraine, she doesn't want their gratitude, never wanted it, never needed it, that's not what blue ajah is about, they're 'Seekers after Causes'. And Moiraine embody the blue Ajah. They should stick her on their banners becaus ehse truly was the greatest of the Blue.

[@Dunstan9]

Honestly, that is the biggest problem with his attempt to paint Moiraine's POV of events... he tries to paint it as *way* "nicer" then even Moiraine herself would. She might not be aware of all her faults, but she is certainly more conscious of what she is quite intentionally doing then Daniel's attempted white washing gives her credit for. She is simply dedicated to her cause. Which she sees as coming before literally everything. Herself included, to her credit.

[@naraoia4450]

Ah, a hilarious 20-minute love letter to Moiraine was just what I needed tonight! (Book 5 Moiraine is *heartbreaking*. At least she gets to come back and floor everyone by walking into a tent ^_^)

[@zollieberdy4405]

I like Moiraine...at book 6. When all the other Aes Sedai shows why Moirane was clearly the best person to lead him. Though to be fair, if they would just LET THE PROPHESIES PLAY OUT life would just be better. Prophesies can't be guided, IMO. Does anyone else hate Elaida because of that?

[@TamaynIrraniah]

Oh my dog, yes! I really dislike Elaida. I feel so horrible cheering for Alvarin to put her in her place, considering who she is, but..... However, I just finished Crown of Swords, so maybe there's time for her to redeem herself....maybe....?

[@Moridin69]

Think about it from the Aes Sedai perspective. If you are one of the top, respected, powerful scholarly individuals in the world, and you know the world is ending, would you really let the chosen one, the most powerful man ever, roam around, free to do as he pleases? Just some random farmboy, suddenly with the world on his shoulders, with the added risk of going insane at any moment.

[@jatzi1526]

@@Moridin69 The Aes Sedai are arrogant assholes. I generally dislike basically all of them because of how arrogant they are. It doesn't help that the rest of the world is basically stupid but that's also partly the Aes Sedai's fault. They hoard knowledge like crazy. Maybe they do it to keep it out of the shadow's hands(they think). Honestly though I think by the time the books happens the shadow has infiltrated and corrupted the Aes Sedai SO much that even the good ones are kinda bad cuz that's like the culture. Hoarding knowledge and acting like arrogant assholes and sowing distrust and anger in the process towards Aes Sedai sounds exactly like what the Dark One would want.

[@TamaynIrraniah]

@@Moridin69 what you're saying does make sense. I guess I just don't like how undiplomatic the Aes Sedai are. True, they are farmboys, but you can attract more flies with honey than vinegar. Of course, it is true that if they consider themselves superior, and as pretty much any feudal power structure shows us, a farmboy is too ignorant to know what needs to be done.

[@Gunleaver]

I don't hate Elaida for it, because she's the product of her system. I don't think too many other Aes Sedai would handle things much differently. A lot of the extremity of her actions had to do with contending with extremely disloyalty and treason within the Tower during the worst worldly crisis in its history. If Elaida had led the Reds to break away, set up a Tower in exile and slander Siuan and the Blues to the rest of the world, I don't see Siuan doing a much better job, especially with a Forsaken in her administration actively making things worse and undermining the Tower's unity. And let's be clear, Elaida's antagonist status was mostly the result of Siuan's extreme grudge against her and her anti-Red bigotry. Siuan went into the whole Dragon Reborn issue expecting the worst from the Reds and is actually surprised when Elaida proposes in the Hall a course of action in line with her own thinking. After she considers the issue objectively, she realizes it was a natural thing for the Reds (and what does it say about Siuan that she is thinking so much like a Red, if they are so bad? There is absolutely no indication anywhere in the PoV of any Red that they are inclined to panic or prematurely gentle Rand, despite all the people not of their Ajah speculating that as their probable course of action. Lan really wasted his breath telling Perrin the Reds aren't the bad guys, since Perrin doesn't speak with one until book 11. He should have been telling Siuan and the Wondergirls). But Siuan is the one who influenced the Wondergirls, so they side with Salidar instead of the Tower, and Egwene would never let a principle get in the way of her pursuit of power, so she is perfectly happy to throw Tower unity on the fire to tear down Elaida, all the while rationalizing her course of action by inventing all sorts of evils and disasters that Elaida will cause, despite absolutely zero acquaintance with the woman from which to make them.

[@richardtalbot1542]

And the man that was the least responsible Matt. Is the one that ultimately gave up the most, half the light of the world, to save Moiraine.

[@pamelacable9161]

Hi Daniel, I'm new to your channel and I love it! You reminded me how much I love the wheel of time. Also your comment about how it's helped you through some bad times , I feel the same and I've started listening to the audiobooks again while packing my house for a very difficult move back to Virginia! It is definitely helping me focus and get through so thanks!

[@derpimusmaximus8815]

7:31 As an uncle to 3 toddlers, I can confirm that instructions like that hold for about 5 seconds after breaking eye contact. If I'm lucky.

[@mirona14]

It's super late and I should definitely be sleeping, but I saw the title of this video and I *had* to watch it. I'm actually at my first read through the series, reading through CoS atm, but I absolute love Moiraine. I fell absolutely in love with her character and it was hard at times not to frown at how everyone was treating her. After the events of FoH I actually had to read New Spring because what she did hit me hard. I may be biased towards her, but it was her character that made me fall in love with WoT (love other characters, the events and the Game of Houses and other political/power struggles too), but she's definitely my favourite WoT character, and really high up in my top of favourite fantasy characters. I'm glad this video exists because not only is it spot on, but people should try and understand her perspective, dedication and motives because anything else would be, in my biased opinion, a disservice to her character

[@Dunstan9]

As Moiraine admitted out of her own mouth in the aftermath of the Eye, the very first thing she did with the boys, was try and put a compulsion on them through those coins she gave them. “The Shadow can be anywhere” indeed. “The Father of Lies” aspect of the Dark One is all about the lies and excuses one tells oneself to justify their misdeeds. Within such, darkfriend or not, Moiraine is one that is constantly walking a knifes edge of being one of the Dark One’s greatest and most effective servants. Ultimately, the Two Rivers folk are RIGHT to mistrust her. She IS out to use them. She WOULD kill them the moment she thought it “necessary”. Hell, even more then the whole threatening to kill them bit, one scene in TEotW that really stands out, is how once they finally came clean about the dreams, she blatantly Aes Sedai-truthed it up when asked if she knew the names of the False Dragons. Hardly even tried to be subtle about it, just took them for a bunch of fools who wouldn’t noticed she didn’t answer the question. Moiraine is a badass, and she gets shit done. These are both true, but she is also a deeply flawed individual. Who is willing to sink to damn near any level to do what she thinks “needs” to be done, and is whole convinced she, and only she, can truly know what that is. She goes on and on about “The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills”, yet the moment ANYTHING goes contrary to how she wants it to, it’s all “yet is the Dark One’s touch effecting the weaving?”. As if she thinks the literally infinity old Wheel of Time cannot even tie it’s own shoelaces without HER there to see it done. Hell, the Wheel has to actively beat her over the head with the visions of the future telling her “You. Are. In. The. Way!!!” for her to even begin to get a clue, and even THEN she makes one last effort to manipulate Rand with her letter to him. To say nothing of her letter to Thom. In short, Moiraine is FAR too willing to do “what is necessary”, lacks trust in people, faith in the Wheel, and just over all wants to control literally everyone and thing around her.

[@Dunstan9]

Also, she didn’t actually tell them not to touch anything until after May already had the dagger. I mean, yeah, that’s largely because they snuck away before she even had a chance to, but they DIDN’T just ignore her instructions. They ignored her GIVING them.😅

[@danshaw1096]

She wasn't in the way. She was guided by the Wheel and used by it every bit as much as Rand. For the Third Age to end with the beginning of the Fourth and not the destruction of the pattern, Rand, Mat and Perrin all needed to act exactly as they did, none of which would have happened without Moiraine's help. She also didn't hesitate to list herself or her personal attachments among necessary sacrifices. She was Cairhienin, but she didn't want Rand to divert his attention trying to rebuild it and would have had him move on to continue uniting the nations under his banner. She was Aes Sedai, but when Siuan was deposed and the White Tower was divided, she stayed by Rand's side instead of joining the rebels.. She made mistakes, but never took her eyes from her goal because she knew there were no second chances if they failed. The Pattern wasn't going to be saved by high minded rhetoric.

[@Dunstan9]

@@danshaw1096 And that is *why* she was in the way. She had already influenced them enough in that regard. Anymore would be too much, thus she could get out of the way, or die. The Wheel is not sapient. It doesn't really "care" about anything. Least of which whether it just guided you into doing the very thing it is about the fall down on you for doing. For even within the weaving of the Wheel, there is choice, and the consequences of those choices are on them. The Wheel simply seeks to add balance wherever there is enough room to fit it in. Such as say, striping power from one who has taken it from others.

[@Dunstan9]

@Stirgid Lanathiel The Dark One is literally evil. As in all evil. All "negative" really. As such, both the Shadow and the Light are an intrinsic part of everything within the Pattern. Blended together within everyone's very soul. The Dark One is both the emptiness of the Void, and the peace it offers. The very righteous anger that they'd use to defy the Dark One, comes *from* the Dark One. Redirected back upon it by the Light(the Creator) within them. "Father of Lies" is basically the same as such redirection. The lies one tells oneself to justify ones actions. Again, the Dark One *is* evil. ALL evil. Fighting evil with evil is simply a win for them. Regardless of it's "necessity". Even up to the very act of killing it, and thus removing the very concept of evil from existence. By the removal of choice, the Dark One still wins. Also, the Dark One is if anything the embodiment of change and chaos, not "stability". That would be the Creator. Who, as such... doesn't really "do" all that much. Largely just "exist" as all that is good, and in doing so, serves as counter to the Shadow of the Dark One. Other then that the Creator is all about "do as you will". For it is in his creation choosing of it's own will to go on despite the pain, that the masterwork of his creation shines. To directly meddle, would be to admit imperfection. The Wheel is equal parts Light and Shadow, but it is also not a sapient as the Creator and Dark One are. It simply has it's task, and it's directives. Calculates all the possible paths from point A to B, and attempts to focus the weaving towards the most effective one. Yet even within the weaving, there is always choice. The Wheel attempt to make the desired outcome the one that those involved would choose, but choice it remains. Which then ties back into said "directives". For while the Wheel is chiefly focused on doing what needs to be done, it will also try and fit in as much "balance" as it possibly can while doing so. In short, when it's attention has been drawn to events, it will inflict karma wherever it can fit it in. While at the same time, "The Wheel" *is* just a metaphor for the operating system of the Pattern. The Pattern itself just being the collection of threads that make it up. "Threads" themselves being just a metaphor for a things passage through time. As such, at the end of the day, "The Wheel" is just the collective unconscious of everything that exist. It doesn't really "do" anything to anyone. That pull people fell around Ta'veren? That is simply their very soul saying "Hey... I think it's time I go and do the thing!". For their souls have of course been through all of this a great many times before.

[@Dunstan9]

@Stirgid Lanathiel I mean... Rand literally created a world in which the Dark One was dead, and said world had had the very concept of evil erased from it. As in people could literally no longer even comprehend such a thing. It simply did not compute to them any longer. Said change also causing something to be off within their eyes. Then you have those channelers forcible turned to the Shadow. Who have literally had the very Light removed from their soul. Again, causing something to seem to be missing from their eyes. The Creator and Dark One *are* all that is good and evil, and together they make up people's very souls, or at least a good chunk of said. The Dark One embodies many things. Not the least of which is nothingness and nonexistence. Yet a large part of Rand's confrontation with them, was Rand learning to master the part of Dark One within himself in the whole "the peace of the void" scene. AMoL, Ch. 38. - "He existed in this place that was not, this place outside of the Pattern, this place where evil was born. He looked into it, and he knew it. The Dark One was not a being, but a force-an essence as wide as the universe itself, which Rand could not see in complete detail. Planets, stars in their multitudes, like the motes above a bonfire." - "The Dark One was not a being. It was the darkness between. Between lights, between moments, between eyeblinks." - "Within the tempest, Rand sought the void as Tam had taught him. All emotion, all worry, all pain. He took it and fed it into the flame of a single candle. He felt peace. The peace of a single drop of water hitting a pond. The peace of moments, the peace between eyeblinks, the peace of the void."

[@Minjoph]

Listening to you talk about The Wheel of Time makes me love the series more and more, and it was already my favourite series. Possibly taking aside the Night watch books by Terry Pratchett. I've only read through the series once, and that read-through took me about 15 years, as not all the books were out when I started. I NEED to read through them again so I can see all of the books with the mind of an adult (I started reading them when I was 10-11).

[@Gunleaver]

You might be a little surprised to see the ... inconsistencies between what's on the pages of Robert Jordan's books, and what Daniel says in his videos.

[@GJMEGA1]

Your points are all well and good, I can even mostly agree with them. However, the main issue was always _trust_ and _respect._ She didn't trust them, and it showed. She didn't respect them, and it showed. Sheepherders or not the Two Rivers folk deserved the bare minimum of respect one human being gives to another. Moiraine could have _easily_ just told them what you told us: She can't be sure she can trust them because of X, Y and Z and if they thought shit was real _before_ the coming storm will make their adventure so far seem tame. Instead of ignoring or downplaying their fears regarding Aes Sedai she should have sat them down and hashed it all out. You don't dispel mistrust by telling the people who mistrust you that they just need to learn to get over it.

[@LuminousArc92]

She definitely was, but it was important for her to me removed from the plot multiple times (book 1 when they're separated, book 2 she lets Rand and co go with Verin, book 3 Rand dips) because of the Wizard character trope. Like Gandalf leaving the plot for stretches at a time allows for things to happen because of the other characters rather than letting it be "A WIZARD DID IT!" to reference something another KZbinr (Hello Future Me) says in his videos. The characters needed to grow in ways they wouldn't have if they were always under her safe umbrella. Supid Mat and the dagger, Rand channeling (which upon my reread of the series I realized that when he got sick as heck in the barn on the road with Mat, that was Rand experiencing the first time channeling backlash Moiraine talked to Nynaeve about), Perrin gaining the wolf eyes I loved the moment in book 5 when Moiraine and Rand finally start actually working together after Moiraine pleads with him, and the letter to him. Such a touching moment, the faith she has in him (eventually)

[@jameslewis2635]

I am still on my first read through but as of the second book I found that Moiraine through her scheming had essentially made all of her previous allies into people who were either suspicous (like Rand, Mat and various Aes Sedai) of her or hated her (Nynaeve, Elaida) which eventually lead to some like Rand trying to break away from her influence after she tried to hold him back too much. I find it hard to consider this the action of someone who 'got everything right'.

[@DaDunge]

She doesn't get everything right, but keep reading.

[@Gunleaver]

You're not wrong. Keep reading. The way I look at it is to contrast Nynaeve and Moiraine. When Nynaeve is facing a difficulty, her reaction is to blame her own shortcomings for her predicament and try to do better. Moiraine's reaction, despite IIRC only 3 PoV segments in the whole first half of the series, is to complain about her lack of resources or that people are not doing what she wants. Shifting the blame in other words. Moiraine is a spoiled aristocrat, whose elitist views were only reinforced by her time as an Aes Sedai. Moiraine expects the world to work the way she wants, and while she is intelligent enough to get that it doesn't, at a visceral level, she feels like it should. She can't recognize that peasants from a backwater have opinions, beliefs and agency and no particular reasons why they should automatically obey her. She expects that without orders, they will just stand and graze like the good little sheep she thinks of them as being. And that trips her up again and again. The good thing about Moiraine is that when something important comes up, she can usually see the need to alter her course, such as all the convergent threads directing the group to go to the Eye of the World.

[@bantakkor8039]

10:58 is the perfect facial expression for her to make a couple of times during the movie ;D

[@HamHamJ1]

I don't think you can justify Moiraine's behavior as somehow necessary or well thought out. Sure it's clear why she thinks it is and why she approaches things as she does, but when you conscript a bunch of farmboys to follow you on a grand quest it's your responsibility to lead them. And Moiraine does not know how to lead people, because just expecting them to fall in line is not it. We see what it does take later on in some of the other characters: the ability to inspire people, to seem like you are in control and have a plan, to make people believe that you will look out for them, etc. The comparison to Gandalf is interesting because really the difference is that Gandalf didn't need to go through a long character developing arc to understand that his faith in providence required also faith in Frodo to walk the path he had been chosen for. Although being a literal angel probably helps in that regard. Finally, uh... we basically find out that all those "conspiracy theories" about the Aes Sedai are like 90% true and not only are they constantly doing stupid Illuminati bullshit but like half of them are evil. And the half that aren't full out evil are still assholes.

[@markodumencic8734]

On the re-read situation. I read WoT for the first time this year, then a few weeks after that immediately started reading again and just now finished. WoT is incredible.

[@philipwardlow]

Funny enough my first experience in reading the Wheel of Time series was from the POV of Moraine and I believe Lan a little bit only, in the Novella that came out as "New Spring" in the the The Legends Anthology in 1999 which I plucked from the NEW FICTION section of the Library in 1999 :) I hadn't read any of the other books and in fact that story got me into reading the series in the first place. So I went into reading Wheel of Time knowing Moraine's purpose and resoluteness and tenacity in all things and Lan's story just a bit way before they came into Emond's Field. So in that, I knew she was trustworthy and and not a possible antagonist to lead the other main protagonists astray... Moraine is most definitely badass in so many ways as you described.

[@stevespain6445]

Firstly thanks for putting me onto these books, it was one of those series from childhood that I never got around to reading. In saying that, maaaaaaan, I found reading the three boys (because they definitely aren't mature enough to be men) like poking chopsticks into my eyes repeatedly. The 'why did the universe/deities/etc choose these over-entitled brat(s) to be these messianic figures?' in fantasy is strong. I also struggle with the portrayal of mental illness, but again given that is generally done poorly to outright 'you've actually never taken the time to get to know anyone's mental illness have you dear author?' in fiction, I am continuing through the series. I suppose it is a sign of the times that it was written in that it's up to the womenfolk to get the saviours into adulting, which begs the question - why weren't those womenfolk chosen in the first place - they are fundamentally better candidates? I had to pause on each book, and taken a lengthy pause on The Shadow Rising just to give myself time to move past just how poor the candidates are, and how obviously better candidates the women would have been.

[@muybenno5557]

This couldn't come at a better time, I JUST finished book 5 yesterday! Loved hearing this perspective. Maybe do something similar upto book 10? ;) Keep up the great work!

[@stuartneville9610]

My first read (up to KoD): Moiraine very frustrate me much. Second read: holy moly... Moiraine’s amazing! She’s the adult in the room (world), and even though she has an ego, she’s able to put it to the side to help Rand for everyone else’s sake. I think my fav line is when she was asked why she was being submissive and she says that she remembered how to embrace Saidar. So smart, so selfless.

[@mkahvi]

Moiraine was cool. I always felt the two rivers kids were being just... incomprehensibly offensive to her for no good reason. I guess I never fully settled in the two rivers perspective despite it being covered more and saw Moiraine kinda for what she was even if I didn't understand it fully. The later parts of the story enlightened that and just give made respect for her.

[@terrelljohnson5811]

I just finished the series and Moraine is one of my favorite characters

[@gregcampwriter]

Moiraine is an example of why hillbillies bring out shotguns whenever the revenuers show up.

[@jiunjuan]

Hands down, she's one of my favorite fantasy characters of all time.

[@williamholland5809]

I remember feeling sorry for her in books 4 and 5 cause of how rand was treating her. And rereading it, I can see and hear the desperation in her voice to try and pass on all that she can to rand before the docks. Just drives the feeling home even more.

[@shauntempley9757]

Yeah. But remember, Moiraine's entire character change is due to the approach of the docks. She did not decide that of her own choice. She was forced to change.

[@xandara75]

@@shauntempley9757 She started that change long before, so I don't agree.

[@shauntempley9757]

@@xandara75 The biggest change came after Rhuidean. That is where she learned of the docks. Any change before that was minimal. Particularly in believing that the ancient dream prophecy was Rand vs Sammael in Illian when it was Rand vs Asmodean in the Aiel Waste. That was Moiraine making a huge mistake that would have cost everything, and she did not even realise she was making it.

[@0culimortis]

I don't think I had any issues with Moiraine when I read the series (and I've only read it once). If anything I kept wondering why everyone kept pushing against her. She saved all your lives. But I get it the belief is that you can't trust an Aes Sedai.

[@Gunleaver]

Rand leaves in Book 3, because Moiraine was refusing to DO anything. She refused to let him go to the people who swore to follow him, claiming it was too dangerous, and that people would crush any group he joined. Except when that does NOT happen… she still makes excuses why they STILL can’t do what Rand wants, even though the exact opposite thing to her predictions came to pass! Now the new story is that the Shadow is assassinating people who might be Rand, so they have to stay hidden in their mountain camp where it is safe… and then Trollocs attack that very night! Moiraine KEEPS BEING WRONG. But she’s Daniel’s favorite character, so Rand should just ignore her absolute shit track record and keep listening to her. Rand has been doing what she said all winter at this point. With Moiraine around, Emond’s Field was attacked by Trollocs, and Moiraine frankly admits that even if Rand told her everything he knew, every odd circumstance as soon as they met, there was nothing she could have done to change the outcome. When he finally does tell her about Baalzamon in his dreams, he gets zero help. Rand was the one who made friends with Loial, and without him, they could never have traveled the Ways to reach the Eye or escape the Trollocs who have surrounded Caemlyn, where Moiraine told Rand to go and wait for her. Moiraine is all but helpless against Aginor, and Rand kills him. He faces and defeats Baalzamon twice, with no help from Moiraine. He destroys the Trolloc army in Tarwin’s Gap. Moiraine was a hindrance to his reaching the Eye of the World to get the Power to do those things, because she insists that the rules don’t apply to her. In reality, although they don’t realize this, the only reason Moiraine was able to visit the Eye a second time was because Rand was with her. Then Moiraine is no help at all as Rand chases down the Horn, keeps himself, Loial and Hurin alive through their portal stone adventure, retrieves the Horn from Fain, gets to Cairhien, survives Daes Daemar for several weeks without her help, gets more information from Thom about the Prophecies, making Thom the guy who has told him almost everything he knows about them, while Moiraine, who insists that she is the one to guide him, has told him nothing. Verin is a lot more helpful than Moiraine, and helps Rand use the Portal Stone to go to Tomon Head. He defeats Lord Turak in a duel and gets the Horn out of Falme, managing to help a repentant Darkfriend find the Light by his example. He is hailed as the Dragon by the Heroes of the Horn who agree to help him rescue his friends (again, not a thing Moiraine has ever done - from what Rand can see, everything bad to happen to his friends can be traced to Moiraine dragging them along with him and her). At this point, why on earth would ANYONE who has experienced what Rand has listen to an Aes Sedai not even 10% into her career? Especially one who refuses to share information and manipulates and deceives him at every turn? And then Rand has a threefold reveal of how little use he is being in the mountain. He channels accidentally, almost hurting his friends, and causing an injury to the Tinker spy visiting Moiraine. Then he is unable to discern the sense of approaching Shadowspawn from the sense of taint on saidin. Finally, he is useless for Healing the wounded or relieving Moiraine’s fatigue. This is a clear signal to Rand that he is not doing any good where he is, and is more of a danger to his friends and followers than a help, so he goes off on his own, since hiding has clearly failed and the Forsaken are attacking his dreams again. And he survives fairly well on the road, staying ahead of a pursing Aes Sedai and Warder. Now Moiraine earns her right to keep breathing by actually managing to help Rand with Belal… but she only succeeded because Rand left her behind! Belal sent his Black henchwomen to set a trap for Moiraine, in order to isolate Rand further, and he believed it worked, because he sensed it spring. If he had not, he would have made more efforts to be sure of getting Moiraine out of the way. If she had been in Rand’s company, he would have absolutely had her killed before she ever got to the Stone. He WANTED Rand to make it, and took efforts to make sure Rand came alone. But because Belal is not an idiot, he has to focus on the Dragon Reborn, and can’t leave Callandor unattended while a ta’veren is coming to get it. If Moiraine was with Rand, he could go after her, and keep an eye on Rand at the same time. As it is, because Rand left Moiraine behind, Rahvin cannot turn his attention from Rand & the sword to make sure of Moiraine, so she is able to shoot him in the back while he is distracted. And then she gets curbstomped by Baalzamon, whom Rand has defeated twice and now finishes off for the third and final time. Rand was the important figure in all of this, making Moiraine’s smaller part possible at all. That’s why, even though he has very few PoV appearances, the book is called “The Dragon Reborn”. Because everything depends on Rand and without Rand, none of them could have succeeded. Without Rand’s efforts, Moiraine dies in the Heart of the Stone, the Aiel die trying to take it, Tear falls thoroughly under the Shadow, Perrin dies looking for Faile, Loial is eventually killed guarding his body, something awful happens to the Wondergirls in the dungeon and Mat and Sandar are eventually overwhelmed in the halls of the Stone. Leaving Thom to take over the whole mission to save the world on his own, once he gets over the pneumonia at Mother Guenna’s.

[@ti_sathiya]

Ooooo! The 6+ hours of editing, came out super good. Thanks for providing us the best Daniel. Love you bud.

[@preslavnikolov7382]

I started WoT with New Spring and fell in love with Moirain's character. Even after a couple of rereads, thinking of those docks still hurts

[@blackwolfnews1722]

When we were at the docks, and saw her sneak around the cart positioning herself out of sight, then rush into certain death to tackle Lanfear and not just save Rand al'Thor, but all of humanity, my heart stopped. I threw the book across the room and sobbed. Her redemption, though...LoL, that was a good day.

[@kopicat2429]

Not often i read about a gandalf figure being literally pushed away, and ignored by the chosen one.

[@patrimcauthon478]

Started my current reread/listen with New Spring and it totally changes your perspective of Moraine and Lan and why they act the way they do.

[@kylemccoymusic4202]

This video released when I was reading book 1. Came back after a year and after I finished the first 6 books + New Spring. Worth it. 👍

[@FrancisFabricates]

Excited to learn more about her because WOW is she my fave from the show. Hnnnng this woman is fan bloody tastic

[@nellyfg]

Yaaaaeeeesssssss !!!! I'm so happy about this video ! I've just finished the 5th book recently for the first time. But I kinda had a think around book 4 about Moiraine and came up with the same conclusion : basically she's the best and I loved her so much ! I'm so looking forward to reading New Spring, because I want more Moiraine in my life !

[@naraoia4450]

New Spring isn't even part of the main series, but it's one of my favourite WoT books anyway. You understand Moiraine (and Lan) so much better after reading it! (And you get to see the pond incident referenced in book 2. ^_^)

[@Vanbedda]

The woman straight up turned on and fire blasted Machin Shin, a force that unnerves even the most courageous characters in the book. She and Lan were a rock and a tank for those lovely fool village kids.

[@briancooke1134]

Here’s something: Mat haphazardly picks up the dagger in Shadar Logoth... Fain haphazardly tries to kill Mat at Shayol Ghul. I think there is an interesting symmetry between these two moments and that this was at least mostly intentional. If it wasn’t, it has become my head cannon because I think luck is pretty much the only thing that prevents Fain from killing Rand on multiple occasions. Mat and Perrin are both Rand’s shields in many multiple ways.

[@tamarakdevore5354]

Hey Daniel thanks for going back to the wall hanger for your mic holder. that last video had me worried for a while.

[@stepan.tichyy]

Daniel this was perfect video! Thank you. The editing hours really paid off! Moiraine is amazing!

[@Si1verPheonix]

Daniel. I am going to be super serious real quick. Your background choices are perfect. Your editing and effects with your green screen are wonderful. Honestly your use of memes/gifs is one of the reasons I liked the first video I saw of yours.

[@Brickzar86]

another great review. love your work, man. I just started re-reading the series for like the 4th time and am paying a lot more attention to moiraine this time around

[@al5457]

great breakdown of the story from moiraines perspective! im sorry if this is like super nitpicky but at the beginning when you said moiraine was looking for someone of aiel descent while looking for the dragon reborn, im pretty sure that isn't true? her only criteria for the men she was searching for was the possibility of being born on dragonmount at that exact time. she was rather surprised to find out the aiel were involved in the prophecies at the end of tdr when rhuarc tells her that the "people of the dragon" in the karaethon cycle are the aiel. i could be wrong but i remember reading this on my current reread.

[@mikem1585]

My first time through WOT I (foolishly) read New Spring first...so I was robbed of the mystery surrounding her character, because I always understood her motivations. On my first re-read I found I still loved Moiraine (especially when she tells the story of Manetheren), but I find I was able to see things more from the Rand and Nynaeve perspectives since New Spring wasn’t as fresh.

[@armanisar-feinial1789]

I've only read it once, but I loved Moraine as a character. I died a little with that little tussle with he/she/it who shall not be named.

[@austinjeral1201]

Well done. I do find people tend to treat her a bit harshly on their first read and better on subsequent reads. One thing to note though is that while some of the boys attitudes are warranted. It could be argued that she trusts the White Tower a bit to much. Not as much as other Aes Sedai of course, but she still isn't as suspicious as she should perhaps be. One of the reasons I love her character, (and this series) is that everyone is far from stupid. Every single character is clever, intelligent, and strong in their own way, but each also has their own flaws and hers is that she believes that the White Tower is the safest place for Rand.

[@serwhiskyjack]

I was always hesitant to try to do youtube or twitch or anything, as I felt I would be too weird, but after seeing you in action Daniel, I'm starting to think I could.

[@Ando2k10]

I started the WoT just after the third book was released, and have re-read the serious as prep for the release of every book after. It is my favorite series of all time. I just wanted to say that your assessment of Moiraine is spot on. She ended up being one of my favorite characters for the entire series.

[@GeorgeKinsill]

"Man, I hope this works out for you, but I need to care for the Jesus of this world. Good luck Per Per!" Best line ever.

[@ScratchBashing]

I have to re-watch The Simpsons now...

[@Sagegaidin]

Randlanders not trusting Aes Sedai is more like not trusting the police than believing in a Flat Earth.

[@selinana29]

I was always on Moiraine's side. That poor woman.

[@ncthomas420]

"up to this point she hasnt really done anything"- daniel greene on morianes interactions with rand

[@Archaon6044]

13:52 (SPOILER!) In fairness to Rand at this point; It is established (much!) later on (by Cadsuane, I think) that Callandor messes with your head, and makes you believe you can do impossible things

[@martymcconville7712]

Moiraine is mostly her own worst enemy throughout these books. The information she shares is a trickle when it should have been a torrent. If we posit what she (believed) knew, 1. This is the Dragon Reborn, 2. The end is nigh, 3. These three boys will save or damn the world forever 4. The White Tower is blinded by internal arrogance - then we can critically armchair quraterback the whole story. Jordan gave her hubris, he defined it, he breathed life into it, he ran with it. In the end her role would only really flesh out, like Nyneave, after she surrendered herself to it. When she realized she was carrying out a role of support, rather than trying to lead as a guide, her character became whole. This allowed Rand to become the Dragon as well.