Money And Polyamory, Ridiculous Wedding Spending, First Gen Finances, & More Awkward Money Questions

[@doomedwit1010]

I actually think "not in the budget" is a better phrasing. "Your wedding is not aligned with my goals" feels personal...

[@jenniferwells2291]

But if their wedding isn't aligned with your goals for your own finances isn't it personal? If they don't mind asking you to blow your personal finances for their party that seems pretty personal to me. Nothing wrong with being honest with someone. You're not being mean or ruining "their day" by being honest

[@melissahood2960]

I thought the same.

[@FantusyFailure]

The thing about the 50/50 split that was missed too is if the person making less, and therefore paying so much more of their percentage of income, also has less leftover income to save and potentially have the financial means to leave the relationship if it's no longer working.

[@gnomealone350]

IMO weddings should be replaced with anniversary celebrations. The first one after 7 years if you’re still together and happy about that. And the really big one 3-5 years after the kids have flown the nest and you find you still have things in common and enjoy each other’s company.

[@kathleenschwab4645]

What a great idea!

[@TaraFalcone]

LOVE this idea! We're thinking about hosting some kind of 10-year anniversary celebration next year :)

[@MisaMouri]

I love this idea but boy will it hurt some people's feelings in a society that has come to value the party of the wedding more than the quality of the marriage

[@YourMajesty143]

Great idea. Plus 7 years is plenty of time to save up for a celebration! But even better is if it doesn't work out, well now you have a little nest egg that you both can split. A fat check at the end of a breakup makes walking away from the relationship alot easier, since most people stick it out bc they don't want to feel like they're throwing away all that investment of time they put in. Wouldn't it be nice to have a return on that investment in dollars to help ease the transition into a new path? I'm not saying the money would encourage a breakup, but it certainly could buffer alot of the heartbreak and fears with letting go. Or at the very least, it could make one feel less bitter or resentful.

[@dlm4708]

My "wedding" was us dressing nicely, going out for pizza + coffee, and then playing video games. Super easy, low drama. A few days later, we had a small intimate thing to thank the notary friend who signed the wedding papers (you have to wait 3 days in my county, apparently.) Every year, we do some nice thing for anniversary. We tell each other almost every day that we're happy with each other, and we appreciate (specific things) that the other did. It's "worked" for almost 15 years. There are no Valentine's Day, just random days throughout the year, all year. hahaha~ We have occasional Big Nice Dinners where we invite people like his mom to go out and celebrate. Any week we get to be together is a Good Week, I think. If anything feels stagnant or whatever, that's time for State of The Union where we sit together and discuss all the stressors and stuff. No blame, no assigning fault. Just "this is a problem, how do we solve it?" We are here to help each other. Even when it's sad or frustrating. After we learn how to solve the thing, we can help each other recover, like if one of us had the flu. Then appreciate how willing both of us are to work on hard stuff, not just enjoy the fun stuff. Have the Anniversary Parties. They are incredibly fun and great for relationships!

[@KHBogWitch]

Oh man, that bit about higher earning partners shouldering more expenses vs balancing household tasks…I had an argument with a (male, older) friend of my husband’s a few years ago. We were meeting him for lunch and for some reason the conversation pivoted and he brought up his personal household philosophy, which was that because he earned roughly twice what his wife did, he did half as much of the household/childcare work as she did so it was “balanced.” I asked him if they both worked full time, he affirmed yes, AND her job was a menial physical one while his was desk work. I about came up out of my seat, but he assured me that it was okay because his therapist, “who’s a woman, btw,” had agreed with him that it was a fair arrangement. The kicker? He was having lunch with us while his wife was volunteering at a church event for their kids. It was a very awkward meal after that. I’m not married to him, I don’t have to like it, but I also haven’t spoken with or seen him since because that conversation reminded me why I can’t stand him.

[@YourMajesty143]

The problem with that therapist and generally anyone who thinks this is "fair" is that society doesn't assign value to domestic labor, so it's invisible and not accounted for when trying to balance responsibilities. But unpaid labor is still LABOR, so it DOES have value. In fact, if U.S. women earned minimum wage for the unpaid work they do at home, they would have made well over $1.5 trillion - or in other words, about the market cap of Amazon - which is equivalent to the GDP of the 3rd largest country in the world. Globally, women would have earned $10.9 trillion. However, the actual market value, productivity generation, and revenue accruals are such that "unpaid care and domestic work is valued to be 10 and 39 per cent of the Gross Domestic Product and can contribute more to the economy than the manufacturing, commerce or transportation sectors." (UN Women, Secretary General 2017 Report) Something else to consider is that the wage gap means underearning women, who are financially contributing 50% to their household, are actually reducing their spending power and end up having less money to save for retirement. It doesn't make sense for financial burdens to be split 50/50 in this way, when most men outearn their female partners. Men not only have more money leftover in this arrangement, but they also save more money bc they can offload the costs of cooking, cleaning, budgeting, event planning, child-rearing, etc. Single men pay far more to have these conveniences. The cost of stress is also an expense that partnered men save on, bc they often rely on women to listen to their problems or to appease any sexual frustrations. That's bc nobody dares address the costs of the other unpaid labor thrust on women: free emotional labor and free sex labor (on top of the physical demands of household labor). Let's not forget the pink tax that costs women more for the same purchases that men buy. What often hinders a woman's spending power is that due to taking on the unpaid labor of the house, she tends to spend more when making purchases for groceries, cleaning products, laundry, doctor's appts, vet appts, toys, furniture finds, holiday decor, family gatherings or trips, etc. Keep in mind that female partners are the ones who typically call off from work for parent-teacher conferences, child's games or graduations, or take sick leave/maternity leave to see the family physician/pediatrician. This reduces her earning potential. Might I add further that with the onslaught of climate change, women's unpaid work in farming, gathering water and fuel is growing even more. For centuries, our mothers, grandmothers, and great grandmothers have silently accepted these burdens as women's cross to bear, but it's important that we point out the hidden costs that women take on when we do work for free - especially when those costs catch up to us in medical bills (mental, emotional, and physical health issues) and lower retirement living standards - especially after a divorce leaves you with regret in donating so much more of your time, energy, and money than you should have. P.S. Apologies if anything is redundant. I haven't yet watched the video, and based on some comments I'm seeing, some of my points may already have been addressed by TFD. Gonna watch it now.

[@realMacMadame]

@@YourMajesty143 I suspect that the therapist didn't say "oh that's fair" because that's not what a therapist is supposed to do. That's only his interpretation of what was said. How convenient for him. ;)

[@focusedficus]

@@realMacMadame Definitely. Therapists don't agree or disagree with you, they're not referees. He either has a bad therapist or he interpreted her lack of disagreement as agreement.

[@gracetaylor7051]

I do think there is a grey area depending on the hours each partner works. I work at an hourly job, so I almost always stick to 40 hours a week, whereas my partner has a higher paying job with longer hours. So even though we're both working full time, he is working more hours every week. I'm okay with making dinner most weeknights because I have more time on weeknights, but my partner tends to make dinner on the weekend, or on days when he gets done with work earlier.

[@KHBogWitch]

@@gracetaylor7051 I absolutely agree with that, and that kind of arrangement is made with the spirit of equity. My husband and I have a similar arrangement when one of us has to pull a long week (we’re both salaried).

[@elenab1996]

A lot of people (usually older relatives) are insistent about getting you a wedding gift no matter how much you protest, and it's worth setting up a registry so that they get you something that you actually want. For some people, giving gifts is an important part of celebrating milestones, and in a weird way I think it can be an act of love to facilitate that. We had a registry for that reason, and basically told all our friends that we did not expect any gifts and we just wanted them to show up.

[@toin9898]

Yup. I have begged and plead not to be given gifts at Christmas but to satisfy the people who insist on getting me things, I maintain an Amazon Wishlist so that I at least get useful things instead of junk when they don't listen.

[@MadisonPettway_]

Thought I was the only one who felt like this. It is an act of love

[@josephdemarchi2128]

@@toin9898 this so much. I would much rather nothing but if nothing isn’t an option then I want what I want. I like to read so someone this past Christmas brought me a really nice Etsy made bookmark. It should have been the perfect gift. I now read everything on my kindle. I have no use for it. I faked a smile and said thank you but objectively speaking it was an aweful gift. Just buy me something off my wishlist or nothing. But trying to guess what I want is not great. Heck even when people get me what I ask for it isn’t exactly right. I verbally told someone that I was interested in the pasta gadget for the kitchen aid mixer. Apparently there are two very different ones and I was thinking of one and they brought the other. Of course I could have been more clear on which one I wanted. It’s no one fault but it just creates stress for everyone involved. They sat their looking at both trying to decide and picked one.

[@thatjillgirl]

This is what I tell friends when they are contemplating a registry and say, "Well, we don't really need anything..." I say, sure, but there will be people who want to get you *something*, so you might as well give them some sort of list to choose from so that you get stuff you could in theory use or enjoy rather than random useless stuff.

[@kelleenbrx6649]

I had people complain I didn't have enough stuff on my registry. My fiance and I have both lived independently and are pretty much fully outfitted. We didn't need anything, but were told to make a registry or we'd get random stuff.

[@LiamRappaport]

"Don't put yourself into debt for experiences either" Totally agree! I was at a friend's house when one of their friends mentioned he was taking out a 2nd mortgage on his house to fund a motorcycle trip he was taking through California. I almost died of shock.

[@kenofken9458]

If you got six months to live or something, f*ck it, take the trip. If you're going to be around a while, maybe find a smaller splurge.

[@lalakuma9]

Yeah I hate how millennials have been brainwashed by marketers and social media to think that they should have grand/luxury experiences.

[@kenofken9458]

@@lalakuma9 I don't know that it's all millennials. I know some of them who do big travel, but they also make good money and they don't tend to spend a lot of money on houses or cars or other expensive toys. They'd rather spend their money on experiences than stuff, and as I get older I see the wisdom in that.

[@TaraFalcone]

Yikes 🥴😵‍💫

[@KristenPimley]

At weddings in Korea, it’s typical to just give cash! I definitely prefer it. There are always envelopes and markers right by the wedding hall entrance, so you can write your name on your gift. If you're not close to the couple, around $50 is standard. If you're close, $100 is good. The couple keeps track of who gave what (they usually make a profit at their wedding to help start their life tougher), and they give the same amount back to you at your own wedding.

[@mariemaier5630]

So people that never marry are the losers in this game.

[@KristenPimley]

@@mariemaier5630 Well, marriages in Seoul are down 43% and births 64% from 20 years ago. So, despite the extra "incentives," it's still not worth it.

[@valf156115]

Italians do the same!

[@martairla9578]

@@valf156115 Very common in Poland as well. My mom still has excel file after my sisters wedding ^^

[@maloojisloves6586]

My “wedding” cost $750 (my husband’s suit was the most expensive part!) and I still can’t believe that much was spent. My wedding dress was only $75! I am so happy I never bought into the wedding industrial complex. I was just focused on choosing the person who was right for me! I would get married to him again at the courthouse in a heartbeat. ❤M

[@cateheart7565]

As someone who wants a wedding, and doesn't want to elope, it is a commitment to keep it within budget! No going in debt for our wedding, we will be able to keep it about $8k! It is absolutely doable. Keep guest count low, limit and reuse decor, buy secondhand, and you don't need all of the things! Prioritize the important parts and anything else is the cherry on top. I just want to get married to my best friend with all my loved ones and party!

[@alanathebespectacled]

Good way to look at it. The most important thing (if you want a wedding) is the memories you will make with your spouse and the people you care about. Good photos are a bonus, if you can swing it!

[@fortheloveofLDS]

I literally can't fathom spending tens of thousands of dollars for a single event that YOU also have to stressfully plan for months/years. Make it make sense!

[@ceeemm172]

I always believed in the Legend of the Bridezilla and then as I got further into planning I realized that I was being asked to self-fund a lavish family reunion that had nothing to do with my lifestyle or social group. I eloped sometime between the cousins who made fun of anyone who didn’t have an open bar (we don’t really drink, so it’s not like we’d benefit) and the uncle who MUST be invited when we hadn’t spoken more than three words in my life and also must have a full sit-down dinner. If family were paying for it I would happily have just gotten out of the way and let them plan it too - as was we got hitched at the courthouse during a work trip and then went to the beach. Perfect.

[@alic1977]

Really enjoyed this guest speaker. She is one of the most realistic guest speakers that you’ve had to date the way she ended. The show was amazing bringing home some real realities that a lot of people are not willing to face. I totally agree with cutting back on things that you don’t need to live more peacefully and more realistically and better and sustainable quality of life I gave up my car last year best decision I ever made and I don’t intend on getting another one. I have more financial freedom and I’m not worried about day-to-day expenses because I can actually afford to live. ❤

[@ceeemm172]

Great to hear the polyamory conversation. This is an area where our hesitancy to treat relationships as economic units really bites people in the butt - I don’t think it would shock you that plenty of people who have open approaches romantic and physical intimacy still find it VERY difficult to navigate their financial relationships in the same way. I know a fair number of people who found out they were definitely the “secondary” partner as soon as household economics came into play.

[@mlw5665]

The money thing makes me dislike poly because it seems there is always someone being used and someone getting a free ride, with one person who is kind of the "prime partner" in the middle.

[@AB-py6jl]

Two people in a relationship is complicated enough. Why the hell would you add more?

[@jamiecoupaud2078]

Throw kids and stay at home parents into the mix and see what happens. It's pretty much impossible to keep things equal at that point.

[@MisaMouri]

On the weddings/showers etc I blame so much on social media. We see so many big blow out weddings that just going to the courthouse and having a nice dinner is seen as too little. It's how many people used to marry. That or a small church wedding.

[@perthfanny3017]

I live in Spain and this is exactly what we did: courthouse and dinner at a restaurant. Only 20 guests. That was a great day! A wedding is a big event. I don't think we need to add a wow factor to it with crazy expensive things 😂

[@TaraFalcone]

Social media 100%

[@chelseashurmantine8153]

I literally went to a wedding where the registry had insane crystal vases and stuff, I was blown away by the audacity. They both came from wealthy families, at the post-rehearsal party, the uncle or brother or someone of the bride went and asked a guy with a fruit cart to come to the party THAT SAME DAY, and just literally rented this dude for the party to make these bomb fresh fruit cups for idk how much money cash. Just such a different lifestyle than I had ever been a part of before.

[@sarahwatts7152]

Someone once explained how they did their wedding for something like $1000 - they each got nice clothes, found a free place to do the ceremony...and then told their loved ones about it two weeks before the ceremony. Only the people who really cared showed up, so they could just go to a restaurant afterwards. I could never swing this with my family and live, but come on! #couplegoals

[@sarahwatts7152]

@@KyleePicc #goals

[@francescaeve8776]

that's nice, but two weeks isn't much notice. It would be easy to miss if you have a prior commitment or are out of town, even if you really cared about them.

[@mlw5665]

My wedding was a costume party, and my reception was a potluck.

[@LeslieEllenC16]

@@francescaeve8776right! It's more like.... really cared + had PTO to burn

[@PiehlGina]

Thanks for the wedding convo- I think everyone is brainwashed to think they need to do this and I really have zero desire to have a wedding at all honestly. I’d rather increase my savings or increase my investment portfolio 👏🏾

[@TaraFalcone]

Love that for you! I say the best thing you can ever do for your money is get crystal clear on what YOU want out of your financial life. That way you're less likely to be swayed by what others are doing / how they're spending their money, and stick to your own plan and goals.

[@shehnazahmad5213]

I get you. My parents depend on us for everything financially. Mom almost 81. Dad almost 82. We myself and 5 brother must contribute monthly to cover they cost of living. Plus, i am raising my daughter without her Dad support. Its a lot of pressure. And when they pass they have nothing for us. Its tough. Its yes our parents. Yes, they done a lot for us. Yet il not lie damm its tough. Bcs, we also must think about our future. So, now i must think about my child almost 18. I must help my parents and I must still think of me. Otherwise, no one will.

[@Hibleb]

I’m always surprised by how many people have no grasp of the difference between Equity and Equality. Equity is a 4-year-old and a 10-year-old being treated the same or given the same Christmas gift or have the same behavior expectations on them. This is SO important and is applicable and important in pretty much every industry and community and scenario. (I’m coming at this from a public health viewpoint where it’s incredibly important to keep in mind when setting goals and priorities)

[@realMacMadame]

Actually, that's equality. Equity is each kid being treated appropriately for their age.

[@m_here1]

Yeah that’s equality, not equity. In that example, this would be equity: the 4 year old and the 10 year old are both expected to meet some basic behavior expectations, like no hitting others. But the 10 year old is also expected to meet behavior expectations that are appropriate for their age: taking out the garbage once a week, doing their homework every night, keeping their room clean, etc. These are things that are reasonable to expect of a 10 year old based on the expected maturity level, ability, and intelligence for 10 year olds. The four year old isn’t expected to do those things because it would unreasonable to expect a four year old to take out the trash, do homework, or clean their room regularly without prompting. A four year old does not have the same maturity, ability, or intelligence as a 10 year old (generally speaking). Is it equal? No, the children are not being treated equally because one child is expected to do things that another isn’t. But it’s fair and equitable based on the different abilities of a four year old and 10 year old. So to bring it back to money: splitting bills 50-50 is equality. But the discussion about different income levels and how that affects splitting bills is really an equity discussion. So, in a two-person relationship, if the bills are split 70-30 where 70% is covered by a partner who earns significantly more than the other, that’s an equitable split but not an equal one.

[@AprilCMango]

I really appreciate the military spouse perspective. I'm a Guard vet so don't always first hand see the same ramifications the job has on active duty spouses, but it creates such a bad financial position for civilian spouses who often don't know the military benefits they are entitled to.

[@TheFinancialDiet349]

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[@AL-hi1go]

This channel deserves so many more subscribers. Chelsea, what a great example you’ve set for so many young people

[@TaraFalcone]

AGREED! 👏

[@chelseashurmantine8153]

People left the channel (I was one of them) because her conversations became so negative for a while

[@d14551]

I really like the approach of identifying my worst fear going into a high stakes situation and creating a plan for what I will do if the worst actually happens. Thanks for the suggestion.

[@AB-py6jl]

This is called Fear Setting. Similar to Goal Setting, but not talked about nearly enough. Tried it for the first time this year and I wish I discovered it sooner.

[@everydaycarrytools]

Great discussion as always. The bit about splitting finances 50/50 when there is a pay differential was hard for me to hear, but important. My partner went for her PhD for the last 7 years, and as such hasn't been bringing in much income. We split rent 50/50 even though I earn a fair bit more. But to compensate, I try to cover all the other expenses (food, car, vet bills) etc. We felt like that was pretty fair because she was making a conscious choice to reduce her income for a long time in order to get the PhD, and that choice was going to impact our family as a whole. It does mean that I tend to have a little extra spending money at the end of each month though, as compared to her. I should probably be paying more more of the rent to compensate.

[@hannahchapman3656]

That’s really interesting. To add a layer of nuance another factor to consider is the long term financial impact of her getting her PhD. How much will her income increase after the degree and how will that impact the division of bills in the future? Currently I’m pursuing higher education and therefore am not making a large amount of money, so my significant other covers most of the bills. However after I obtain my degree I will be making significantly more than him so the division of bills will probably flip. I will end up covering most of our bills after I get my degree.

[@everydaycarrytools]

@@hannahchapman3656 She's not really looking at making any sort of appreciable money from her PhD. It's in a very non-remunerative field. When we were younger and she started this, she always said money wasnt as important to her. Now that we're in our 30's and she's finished, she's been questioning if that was really the best plan. I've always been supportive of her getting her PhD, but the money part really has worried me, given the time and effort she's put in for not much material gain.

[@hannahchapman3656]

@@everydaycarrytools Oh, it sucks that the field she is in isn’t lucrative. I’m in the humanities so I completely understand how an advanced degree does not necessarily mean more money. It’s a REALLY hard decision to make, to choose academics in a field you are passionate about versus a more lucrative degree/ career choice. Because with that money comes financial stability and greater options in your thirties and later in life. I personally chose my passion, but I get having regrets about that. I think it’s awesome that your reconsidering you guys’ division of bills if it could help her.

[@michaelathompson5414]

@@hannahchapman3656 This is only true in a few fields, though. My fiancé and I both have master's degrees and each decided against PhDs because the earning potential during and post-degree *realistically* was much lower than where we are both at now in professional careers given the extremely poor academic job market. The decision to pursue a PhD is significant and should not be made selfishly if one has a partner and financial goals (house, kids, etc.) together. I'm not saying the decision is always selfish or that *your* decision was, just that it's a HUGE decision -- your earning power during and after the degree program is not what most people expect or assume.

[@ceeemm172]

We wound up redoing our balance sheet specifically so that we had the same amount of leftover money because we found that the “partner with more picks things up” approach left one partner always having to run little errands for unplanned expenses - Kleenex and soup when someone was sick, etc. Over time it became kind of a weird burden for that person - plus the partner with less was making “poor people choices” like putting a haircut for an interview on credit. But every couple is different.

[@kdempsey36]

To the registry/wedding gift debate: when we got married, we asked everyone to please not to give us money or get a gift (we had a cheap wedding and didn't need anything), but I ended up having to make a registry to shut up my older relatives, and got a lot of $100 bills in cards. People really do want to give you things and money when you get married I guess.

[@charondolls]

My husband and I are happily married for 10 years, we never had a wedding except a lovely set of photography to celebrate our 10th anniversary. We got our good friend who's a fine art photographer, flew him to London and bought gorgeous outfits by an independent seller that we can wear again in the future. Everything is under $1800...

[@TheGenflute]

I like something a good friend said, which was "I'm much more about marriages and much less about weddings."

[@jeanellegarcia4701]

Great conversation as always but i would have to disagree on the subject of gift giving. In our asian culture you don't just say no to gift giving and most of the time people end up with the same thing Its in the end useless, have to be given off to family or regifted. The gift registry is actually a great idea. My friend recently got married and sure i wanted to gift her something personal but i asked her honestly and since she was moving to another country anything material i gave her would've been extra space in her luggage or she would not have been able to take it at all. Not everyone likes personalised things taking up space in their home, its nice but the novelty wears off and especially for minimalists its just a lot of anxiety. When in doubt its best to ask which is what i did and sent her something on her amazon wishlist in her new home. The other option would be to give a check. But at the end of the day it shouldn't matter what you want to give but what the couple wants. You may like personalised things but the person receiving may not have any need for it. There's no need to look down upon that.

[@lastpolarbearcub]

Yeah a personalized travel blanket would definitely rank - worst gift, complete clutter to me

[@saramarie5744]

Polyamory is needed in this economy lol . I am a poly person and I have been really blessed that all of my partners are young , independent professionals . It has made maintaining autonomy much easier than I imagine it would be if anyone was dependent on anyone else ( especially for retirement ) . We also are 4 + adults with no kids based in Seattle .

[@ceeemm172]

In my observation the easiest way to be happily poly is the same as the easiest way to do anything else - have generational wealth or otherwise be rich enough that you can make completely free choices about living situation etc.

[@AB-py6jl]

This just sounds like roommates with extra steps.

[@toin9898]

This discussion was so thought provoking and the subject of elder parent care has made me so, so glad that I bought a small house where there is absolutely no room for anybody's parents. My partner's family and their finances are pretty messy and it's helpful for that to be totally out of the question. Not so much that he would want to have them live with us, but it means the question won't even be asked of us.

[@TaraFalcone]

Glad you enjoyed the discussion, Jessica! You bring up a really great point - sometimes your current choices can make it obvious / signal to others what your wants and desires are (or are not) when it comes to extended family living situations.

[@ElizabethDohertyThomas]

Great conversation. I'd add there is an ethical obligation we feel to generations above and below us, so while you may have felt you had "the plan" if your inlaws become frail and your spouse feels a strong ethical loyalty to ensuring they are secure, then be careful about claiming an implicit ethical need for a backyard pool, a 2nd home, an expensive annual vacation. :) Even the desire to support your kids college when they'll have the rest of their lives to pay off their debt, while your in-laws may live another 15 years in dire poverty that you could have helped soften. We also owe in a marital commitment context, more than a consumer approach to marriage. Any of us are 2 seconds from a dramatic, life-upending scenario and we should not simply look at the union as a consumer/capitalist "who is giving what" to this situation. There was a famous couple therapist couple in the 70's, lead trainings on this thinking, who did count every little tit for tat in their marriage, thinking it would make it "equal and fair." Yay feminism? Unsurprisingly, they ended up divorced. And UPDATE your wills! We just updated ours from 17 years ago, just before giving birth to our first kid. Holy cow has so much changed in 17 years, alongside a healthcare directive update.

[@jet_tripsoninstagramsellsp8386]

🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝 Thanks for your feedback. Send a msg to my financial advisor. Tell him i recommended you.

[@theannareich]

I'm so surprised that I've never seen the "3-bank-accounts model" considered in these conversations which is really common in the German financial discourse and in my eyes the best way to split finances in a partnership, especially a marriage. In this setup, all income the partners earn goes to a shared bank account from which all shared expenses are paid. The money not needed for shared expenses is transferred 50/50 to individual bank accounts of the partners which can then be used by each partner for their personal expenses, retirement savings etc. In this model, all income is treated as shared income of the partners (which also corresponds to German marriage law). You acknowledge that you both wouldn't be able to make your income without your partner's support (housework, childcare, pushing each other to do more salary negotiations etc.), you act as a team and you can take joint decisions about the division of all types of labour to optimize your earning potential as a couple.

[@TheFinancialDiet349]

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[@chelseavanhoof6398]

I turned down a friends wedding this year… it was hard but I was just honest. I also had my sisters wedding this year and that took priority for my cash. We paid cash for ‘our’ wedding and in 2012 it wasn’t quite sooo expensive but still enough, I’m very glad I didn’t go into debt for it though.

[@TaraFalcone]

Way to be honest and advocate for yourself and your financial goals!

[@BrendaMarinaLopezZBlopz]

Thank you as always Chelsea for steering the ship in the right direction and for sticking to your values no matter who the guest is ❤

[@TheFinancialDiet349]

Thanks for the comment... contact me for information and profitable investment strategies.

[@montagnarde1794]

Speaking as someone who is getting married in less than 6 months, I feel like we would rather just have a honeymoon fund, but that some people consider it tacky to ask for money and would insist on getting us a blender anyway. The registry basically exists for that kind of situation and so people don't get us a blender (which we already have). But it has been a pain to put together and it just feels really greedy? I'm not a fan, but I think it's hard to do without one.

[@spacecaptain9188]

While I enjoy your videos, and find them helpful, long vids like this really NEED a chapter menu!

[@veronica_sawyer0188]

Does it make any sense to start with a cohabitation agreement and then get a prenup later in the relationship? For example, if you intend to live with someone for several years and then marry them, can you transition from a cohabitation agreement to a prenup or is that a bad idea?

[@realMacMadame]

I make much more than my husband and always have. When we got together, we went dutch on dates but when we moved in together, we each put 50% of our salaries into a joint account for household expenses. To me, that was fair. Fair doesn't have to mean equal. This felt better to me than saying "I'll pay 75% of the expenses because you can only afford 25%". When you think of it like that, the person paying more is getting a message from society that they are contributing more and have the power in the relationship. Also, each putting in the same percentage avoids the situation where one partner has no disposable income or where the couple is living in a crappy apartment because that's all the lower earner can afford. Once we got married, we just threw it all into the same pot though. After all, CA is a community property state so keeping money "separate" means nothing. (Also, 50% was arbitrary. That happened to be enough to cover our joint expenses. But it could have been any percentage as long as we both contributed the same and the total covered what it needed to cover.)

[@deadpanhay]

The fact that all money is community property in marriage is so lost on people now as separate finances are growing in popularity. Most people seem to want sep finances to protect themselves in case things go wrong but that 'protection' is not there with this law and just makes it so much harder to continue to live together as one unit fairly. Totally needed when not married and the communication of course has to be there.

[@ceeemm172]

@@deadpanhay Also, isn’t it a caring gesture to want the lower earning partner to also have ready money if things go wrong? Keeping “your own money” but paying the same amount for bills means that one person might be able to move into a hotel and then put down an apartment deposit during a crisis separation but the other person might be stuck and not even able to pay next month’s rent on the shared place. If you love someone, help them build a f--off fund.

[@hindiepindie]

@@ceeemm172 so so agree! I would even go a little further and say (granted you both work) you would want your partner to have something left to spend in their free time. Splitting 50/50 means you have way more disposable income than your partner and you get to spend it on hobbies/friends. Whereas your partner will have invested all their money in your joint living situation.

[@erima4270]

I don't see anything wrong with a registry-- I love when people use it for birthdays or any other occasion because it removes the uncertainty of whether you're getting them something they'll like or not. You know that if it's on their list, it's helpful. If you're that concerned about them knowing it was from you, send a card too that mentions you hope they like the gift.

[@cassiuscoombs3313]

Will this be on Spotify? These are great for on-the-go listening!

[@nutmeg2915]

Just wanted to add that I remember the people who got me random gifts from my registry. I got married at 24, so we needed everything we asked for, though! I remember when most items arrived and how exciting each simple item was as we set it in our new place

[@whitneysanchez6950]

I loved this conversation but would like more discussion on the comment that if you're over leveraged with rent you can "just move". Moving is expensive and rent is continuously rising across the country. It's not just a quick pick up and move. I'd love to hear more on this! This conversation was interesting and I appreciated the expert options giving.

[@laurasomeofthesethoughtsar5811]

my partner and I have joint finances for house stuff and individual for our own stuff. We both put 80% of our income into joint and get to keep 20% for whatever. But I earn double what they earn so I'm covering way more of the joint stuff. We paid for our wedding in cash, it was under 3k.

[@jet_tripsoninstagramsellsp8386]

🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝 Thanks for your feedback. Send a msg to my financial advisor. Tell him i recommended you.

[@aShadeBolder]

thanks for this answer to polyamorous bill-splitting. this is going to be spectacularly off-topic, but I came out nearly 20 years ago. in that time, media representation of queerness has gone from "maybe 1 angst-driven coming out drama in a year, if you're lucky" to "I saw 2 husbands on a TV quiz show last week, and there are nonbinary characters in long-running BBC dramas who have storylines NOT about queerness". TFD musing about how 3, 4, 5 people could structure household finances has exactly the same energy as the casual queer representation I see now but could never have imagined as a teenager. I could MAYBE think of unique financial discussions that would come up with poly situations other than "we all live together, like a married couple with more humans", but I get why you didn't go into that.

[@bencohen7400]

Thanks Chelsea! I always look forward to Monday’s and Tuesday’s for your videos

[@8rainbowcaterpillar]

Rewatching this every few months until I get the systemic relationship changes I want. I am serious and my relationship is very transparent financially

[@kourtney2030]

My husband and I got married last year. We got married at our house, 3 friends as witnesses, and the officiated. The only money we spent was for our marriage license. Best decision ever. If we were going to spend a bunch of money, we'd rather spend it on a vacation for ourselves, not a party for everyone else.

[@shawnasomers9127]

These big expensive weddings are ridiculous! And there’s an expectation that the parents pay for it in some cases! By the time your kids get married, you need to worry about retirement!

[@blushbrains645]

I live in Romania and we do the plate, drinks + extras value guessing here a lot because it’s a cash gift type of a tradition. You always have to stress that you can cover the expense that the couple made for the wedding. It’s indeed tiring. The initial tradition was that the village would help the young couple start their lives, but it has gone to a very different level now. There are however couples who are starting to give up on the idea of gift (my husband and I did that) but people still feel bad not to bring anything, so they do😂

[@Noodlesknotscrochet]

Hearing someone say a $40k wedding was cheap makes for a very disconnected guest. YIKES

[@arrietty12]

Yeah overall this was a great episode but it was so funny how Chelsea reacted with shock at spending 40k on a wedding and the guest just didn't even register that

[@Loralit4]

… but she did pay cash

[@ariettej4271]

Great podcast!!! I loved it, it was very informative and engaging to listen to. Awesome job ladies

[@TaraFalcone]

Thanks for watching!

[@BaglessUpright]

I love the criticism of extravagant weddings and people feeling like they NEED to do all of these super optional things. Look at your parents. They did not have 1) a professional photographer at the time of their engagement, 2) a follow-up engagement photo shoot, 3) professional photographers at the bachelorette party, bridal shower, rehersal dinner, etc, 4) a pregnancy announcement photo shoot, 5) a pregnancy photo shoot, 6) a newborn baby photo shoot, 7) a professional photo shoot for the baby's first birthday, second birthday, third birthday, etc. Nobody in any previous generation from Gen X back had ANY of those things. But in such a short period of time, Millennials and Gen Z were convinced that all those things are mandatory. All of those things are optional. They're also stupid and tacky. They're also a waste of money. Why do we all own iphones if we're gonna hire photographers for everything anyway. Stop.

[@BC-np8cb]

Totally agree! This kind of thinking that you HAVE to do stuff or that it's just normal also contributes to a lot of environmental problems and wasted resources (depending on what it is).

[@-R2-D2]

I got married with a 3k budget. I was so proud that we were able to pull it off. My dress was $25 from ross and shoes for the same price from amazon. My husband's outfit cost a bit more, but it was still under $100. We only invited friends that we both know, and we only invited relatives that we saw more than once a year 😂. And no registry for us, so people just gave us gift cards and money. If you're reading this and you're about to get married, don't start your family with a debt! It's really just one day. Don't even do the video thing because how often will you even watch that? Be practical and save for the future of your family ❤

[@ringailetervydiene5942]

Few thousand dollars to attend a wedding??? My wedding for a party of 20 cost around $1850 in 2012. Other weddings around went for $6000-10000 at that time. The most I have spent on wedding to attend it was $450 and it was a close family member. When they got $400 in an envelope (the prefered gift in my culture) they were surprised we splashed so much since wedding gifts go $25-150 from family unit.

[@perthfanny3017]

I feel like in Europe people don't spend that much money on a wedding. Maybe thousands of euros but certainly not tens of thousands... (Unless they come from a wealthy background). We had 20 guests and spent about 4/5k: 2k for rings and the rest for a suit and a dress/photographer and restaurant. Also, only invite people you really love like your friends and relatives. There is no point in having and paying for people you don't like much. Don't start your married life carrying debt!

[@8rainbowcaterpillar]

Many thanks to TFD for changing my financial well being and life overall! Next up getting close to Chelsea's chic aesthetic bc I do not dress cute biking to commute

[@lij2015]

Very glad to hear her takes on the financial side of splitting things unevenly based on income. As effectively a small business owner who has had to build to making as much as my wife, we did start out splitting things unevenly when she made more. However the downside to splitting unevenly is very evident when you take this out of the woman paying more context. Not everyone is in a healthy relationship and sometimes I feel like the advice on this channel is more or less "positive psychology" adjacent. Where it's only applicable if your partner is treating you as a true equal

[@lij2015]

It's a great channel, but I like hearing the real talk of "this isn't sunshine and rainbows"

[@arrietty12]

Say more about the downside?

[@awibs57]

The relationship thing should also be considered in terms of labor hours. If all people are equally valued in the situation, the hours of their lives have equal value. Spend that hour doing whatever is most effective in your personal situation, which may be working for money or may be domestic labor or may be emotional support, or any combination thereof.

[@BC-np8cb]

To me, when you really think on it, weddings are weird no matter your finances. You and your partner decided to live together, share sex/intimacy, and/or support each other with some goals and finances. Why get a big cake, a busy white dress you'll wear once, a cheesy cover band, and and a 200 person multi-phased event to put that personal move on display? It's just as weird as having a huge, formal, expensive party for your first kiss, starting a gym routine together, deciding to date exclusively, or divorcing. If you want to party with your family and friends because you truly enjoy their company, just have a party with your family and friends. Even when weddings were/are a political or social alliance, it's off-putting to celebrate it as if it's just a big fun bash for the couple involved.

[@fuzzyraspberry24]

My thoughts on the my partner earns more argument. To make it feel fair I'd divide everything by percentages. So instead of coming to an agreement about the emotional $ value. We'd come to an agreement about percentage of your wage. Especially if it was a situation where your both full time. If I wasn't full time and the other was then the currency would turn to 'time'. So e.g. deciding that 20% of income goes to rent/mortgage. That might mean $200 for the high earner. But only $100 for the low earner. (based on a $1000 vs $500 nett wage relationship) And for the time argument. It would be If my partner was full time and I worked 20 hours less than full time. I'd provide 20 hours of domestic services or agreed chores.

[@sindhusanthanakrishnan5465]

Ooh, this is such a good approach! Makes it equitable too

[@gordonwallin2368]

Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.

[@sunflowervibes3041]

My wedding cost $5,000 and I thought that was too much for 2013 haha 😅

[@TheFinancialDiet349]

Thanks for the comment... contact me for information and profitable investment strategies.

[@iBlitzKreeG]

If you really are feeling over leveraged and struggling to make payments, consider renting out a room in your home. In my area an average size bedroom can be rented for $1000+. The extra cash flow can be immensely helpful.

[@neonbuildings]

Maybe it's just the people around me, but most of my friends and I don't want extravagant weddings (we are latter half millennials and gen z). I've been to a couple of big, expensive weddings and I've also been to backyard weddings. Either way, I'm there to celebrate the couple and have fun. I personally want something intimate and comfortable. Something that feels like a slightly dressed up version of the big, extended family dinners we used to have at restaurants in my hometown. The formalities don't mean that much to me, I just want to be happy and see my loved ones having fun.

[@jennyt6763]

For anyone interested in the topic of money and polyamory, I recommend the multiamory podcast episode 273 (I also recommend the multiamory podcast, in general, for out of the box relationship advice for anyone of any relationship orientation)

[@ninajohnson6578]

One of the best episodes ever.

[@OspreySoul]

Just a note, I had a hard time listening to this because of the really sharp sibilance in Tara's voice/mic. It was also picking up a lot of mouth sounds. Is there any way you can EQ those down a little?

[@christinaaseltine9282]

Hey am I the only one who didn’t see this episode in my podcast app

[@Well_Earned_Siesta]

Budgeting and investing is the most _romantic_ thing a couple can do. Yes, i said romantic. Splurging on dinners or flowers that you'll soon forget pales in comparison than intentionally planning for your future together as a couple. For the last 20 years as my spouse and I have budgeted and invested, we did ot with the mutual belief that one day we'd be a geriatric couple sitting on a porch together reminiscing about the wonderful life we built together. To me, nothing is more romantic than investing in that, investing in our hope and belief in our relationship.

[@montagnarde1794]

My wedding is probably going to end up costing 30K. How are we paying? My mother is a doctor (and also very generous). Seriously, if that were not the case we would probably just elope. Our mortgage is more than enough debt for us.

[@tbirdxoxo]

Is there a reason why this isn't on Spotify? I can't wash my hair without your podcast! Lol

[@jet_tripsoninstagramsellsp8386]

🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝 Thanks for your feedback. Send a msg to my financial advisor. Tell him i recommended you.

[@vessbakalov8958]

Selling your house prematurely ~55:00 should be truly a last ditch thing. I am surprised you didn't talking about it - but selling a house is going to cost minimum 5-6 PCT for agents and then maybe local taxes. So maybe up to 8pct. Which is crazy expensive. And this assumes there is no equity in the house to pay this because of there was - we wouldn't be having this convo.

[@maddie9602]

Oof, yeah, hiding credit card debt is a definite no-go. I know a former boss (who I'm on unusually good terms with; he was a good mentor and is a friend and it was a hard call to change jobs, even if it was the right career move) who got remarried late in life ... and found out after the fact his new wife had credit card debt well into the five digits. Now, I personally think he should let her sort out her own mess, but he feels like he "should" help her out, delaying his own retirement to do so. ... again, not the choice I would make, especially since she concealed a _massive_ amount of debt until they were already married

[@mjhmn]

great conversation

[@MrMasterNorris]

I think a good solution to the income difference is just the living situation. For most people splitting the rent evenly % wise will be enough to get close to even. At least enough that they could probably maintain the same lifestyle. Higher earner might have to cover a nice dinner. If they won’t do that then they don’t get a nice dinner with their partner 🤷‍♂️

[@PrettyTranslatorSarahMoon]

lmao I spent like $100 on my wedding and most of that was the marriage license.

[@darekh87]

Will this be on Spotify?

[@t2tu-n0o48]

Hi, This is a such a great video/discourse. Regarding the conversation on relationships with wage disparities - it misses another type of Financial Abuse, whereby the person who earns more is a woman in a heterosexual relationship and feels obligated and coerced into compensating financially (talking more-so 70/30 etc) for the person (male) who doesn't earn the same (and isn't motivated to pursue ways to do so - even whilst capable). All while still bearing all emotional and all domestic labour along and, often, a high pressured job where she still may not be paid the same as her male equivalents. Speaking from experience, it's also a red flag to be considered as it can be incredibly damaging and the lack of ambition vs resentment can lead to the women experiencing overwhelming toxicity 'on their dime' and an eventual painful discard.

[@arrietty12]

This sounds less like a type of financial abuse and more related to the Fair Play discussion from a couple months ago. It's not inherently bad for a man to make significantly less than his female partner and have no desire to earn more money. But there is a problem with a relationship where one party is disproportionately responsible for all the household management and finances.

[@t2tu-n0o48]

@@arrietty12 I would agree if the man in that scenario had life expectations that matched what he could actually afford and was content with that. However it is Financial Abuse if the guy in this scenario leads with coercion because has the attitude that the women who earns more should bridge the lifestyle gap he has by using her higher wages to do so. Compensating his lifestyle. That is on top of the 70/30 bills split, funding majority travel/entertainment and 90% domestic labour.

[@Pomagranite167]

Thats not financial abuse babe. Thats just a bum lol

[@ramonalopez7516]

Can’t find the app

[@TheFinancialDiet349]

Thanks for the comment... contact me for information and profitable investment strategies.

[@qwertyTRiG]

Renters can move easily? Not in Ireland. The housing market is a mess, and the total number of houses available for rent in the entire county is astonishingly low.

[@mickylord21]

Bro this is clearly a us based channel/episode

[@kenofken9458]

@@mickylord21 Rental availability kinda sucks here too in many markets. At least availability of units that are halfway reasonable prices in neighborhoods you don't immediately fear for your life.

[@shannongarrety6105]

I think if you can’t buy something on the registry, you would be better served by buying them nothing. The obsession with giving meaningful gifts is weird to me. The registry is a list of things the couple wants or needs what is more meaningful than getting someone what they actually want.

[@Arachne-qw1vr]

Look at who earns the lowest wage. Pretend everyone is earning the same amount. Pay 50/50 and save everything else for emergency only?

[@TheFinancialDiet349]

Thanks for the comment... contact me for information and profitable investment strategies.

[@thejammiestjam]

Great chat as always!

[@Ang-wu2bt]

Thanks for the content Chelsea

[@YoYo-gt5iq]

My wife and I traded off on who was home, and even who was on active duty. All the money was all our money. Today I make 3x what she does, and I'm also the primary person at home. That last part will prob change again in a few years.

[@chelseashurmantine8153]

1:00:00 I think when you do expose the things you were concealing, you cannot blame the person for any reaction that they have. It’s not fair to have been sitting on information and processed it, and then get upset about the way someone reacts when you tell them, before they’ve had a chance to process.

[@doomedwit1010]

All my credit cards and bank accounts now e-mail me for any transaction over $0.01. Really helps keep an eye on recurring subscriptions. Also spend your reward points. Those will not be reimbursed in the event of fraud.

[@jet_tripsoninstagramsellsp8386]

🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝 Thanks for your feedback. Send a msg to my financial advisor. Tell him i recommended you.

[@karil6461]

Apple only app, boo!

[@alejandrahinostrozaa]

Great episode 👏🏻

[@jet_tripsoninstagramsellsp8386]

🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝🔝 Thanks for your feedback. Send a msg to my financial advisor. Tell him i recommended you.

[@qwertyTRiG]

I didn't know that Americans used the phrase "granny flat"!

[@deathbatgirlxxx]

It's usually called a "mother-in-law's quarters" here. I've also heard pool house in examples where the house has, ya know, a pool too.

[@paillette2010]

And take into consideration that your parents won’t want to be instant daycare. That assumption is so f’king entitled.

[@CordeliaWagner]

I see having children as selfish in general.

[@emiliabolsas]

I am in some community groups with several older/retired members and the number of them who act as unpaid childcare for their grandchildren is staggering. Those in leadership roles even take meetings while carrying babies on camera and/or have to cancel last-minute when there are emergencies or children are sick. They do it without complaint - I find it to be incredibly unfair to them and presumptuous of the parents of the young children to assume that grandma and grandpa have nothing else they would rather do.

[@paillette2010]

@Ariella Kadosh your post is a lot of yikes.

[@paillette2010]

@@CordeliaWagner yup. But as a culture we need to support those who do have them.

[@ceeemm172]

@@emiliabolsas It doesn’t sound like you’ve received any communication that these people are distressed by this situation? They’re doing it “without complaint” and choosing time with a relative over being fully present on a volunteer group Zoom call? It makes sense that some people might want to prioritize time with family over teleworking for free?

[@statrunner]

1MIL subs livestream soon??

[@kents.2866]

In certain areas of careers, I can definitely see where women and men are paid differently. But on the whole I think the pay disparity for the working poor, we are all just getting crap pay, both men and women

[@lanaharper9798]

We’re definitely all getting crap pay as workers but we are not getting *equally* crap pay, which is why the intersectionality conversation exists in the first place

[@CelineSalad]

We didn’t means to end on a down note there… Chelsea: “well, we’re all going to die”

[@john_mclucas]

the Best way to spend my morning 🎉

[@omgitssamanthaa]

i wanna dress like chelsea

[@hindiepindie]

Uhh I feel so strongly about splitting costs with your partner… 18:29 please do it proportionally! The ‘I’m paying for you lifestyle’ argument doesn’t fly if you just split utilities, rent/mortgage and groceries. My partner makes 60% of our gross income and even after we split proportionally he gets to save/spend 3 to 4 times as much for himself each month.

[@TC-8789]

Sorry but not making money on your house, or your inlaws house, hand over fist ... Is not the same thing as being screwed over by the fed.

[@turtleanton6539]

Yes😊

[@laurenodonnell5889]

I will forever be indebted to you you've changed my whole life continue to preach about your name for the world to hear you've saved me from a huge financial debt with just little investment, thanks so much Mrs. Katherine Haley

[@samanthaprocell3844]

Mrs Haley changed my life because of the high profits I got from investing with her.

[@benandersonn12]

You invest with Mrs Haley too? Wow that woman has been a blessing to me and my family.

[@kennguyen4540]

I was skeptical at first till I decided to try. Its huge returns is awesome. I can't say much.

[@laurenodonnell5889]

@Diana Heyes investwithhaleyy💯

[@paillette2010]

#cringe at her bragging about her negotiating skills with her wedding. But she’s got great info overall.

[@sheila3936]

Why? The wedding tax/markup is real. (eg. For a wedding I was in, an updo was $60, but a bridal updo was $140 and the only difference was a bit of baby’s breath.). There’s absolutely wiggle room for negotiations with the majority of wedding vendors.

[@qwertyTRiG]

@@sheila3936 "Baby's breath"?

[@paillette2010]

@@sheila3936 wedding vendors work like you do. And instead of bragging, include tips to help both parties win. I used to be a wedding snd event videographer in the 90’s and saw all spectrums, albeit more expensive because it wasn’t Aunt Cathy on het Iphone, and crowing about her deals belittles those who earn a living at it. Besides in what 2014 with 45k, she’d be in the catbird seat in the housing market wrt to her asset right now. So an extra dose of cringe.

[@sheila3936]

@@qwertyTRiG the flower. A few sprigs were added here and there.

[@qwertyTRiG]

@@sheila3936 I've looked it up. Beautiful flower, albeit apparently poisonous.

[@jalmon9478]

Oo she has French in-laws , that is hard. I’ve been there 😢