Monk Changes - Dawntrail Media Tour FFXIV

[@chickennugget6684]

brotherhood lasts 20 seconds? the recast is still just 120? *SIX MONKS IS ALIVE*

[@monsters181]

What does six monk mean?

[@godsplayingfield]

@@monsters181 basically, make a party of 6 monks (can be just them or for safety have a tank and healer) then just.... go to town. with 6 monks and the duration and cooldown being 20-120, you can have brotherhood active the entire time as long as no one mis times it. which is fcking awesome, as they will be dealing insane damage constantly.

[@JurassicPancake]

the fist of rhalgr........

[@durpypig1731]

@@JurassicPancake not just the fists any more we making an entire rhalgr with this

[@monsters181]

@@godsplayingfield i see that sounds fun to do

[@awesomeuno1]

All of the riddle moves getting extensions seems great, thanks for the vod!

[@coreywong6229]

At least they are not tackles like in stormblood.

[@ehko9989]

I'm amazed so few people noticed the mistake here. The guaranteed crit from Bootshine/Leaping Opo doesn't come from Leaden Fist (right now) or from spending a Opo-opo's fury stack (in DT), it comes from being in the opo-opo stance and nothing else. That said, thanks for the coverage ! With all the crazy good videos you've made this past year or so, getting into the media tour was deserved !

[@oxdaman1]

Thanks for pointing that out, as it means that each skill is probably 100 potency or so higher than what the tooltip says when using a Fury gauge, so using SSS as a finisher still won't be the way to go most likely.

[@asterfield02]

it's because all those who played MNK have all quit or chose a different job long ago.

[@Frostbyte115]

​@@asterfield02that is cap. Monk mains are still alive lmao

[@lecrab8090]

These videos are great. Credit where it's due, Rinon made the absolute most of his media tour access.

[@endvalley3014]

Super excited. Depending on how Viper and Ninja feel, this may end up as my main this xpac.

[@Pikachu-qr4yb]

Ninja changes look dope to me

[@Fidel_Castbro]

As a monk main the long story short is that, personally, I'm in the six sided star finisher boat. If I continue with 1.94 GCD monk going into Dawntrail that means you can comfortably fit 10 GCDs in 19.4 seconds giving you .6 seconds to get the 11th one in. What I think will be the real thing we need to test is what is going to be the Lunar Nadi combination because now that we have Pouncing Coeurl that is 1200 potency with 3 GCDs vs the 1040 potency but 2 of those are guaranteed crits on Leaping Opo but its probably going to be a case by case basis of do you have 3 Couerl fury then use PC PC PC and do you not have 3 Coeurl fury then LO DK LO. So assuming you have your Fury Gauge filled on all 3 before going into your 2 minutes your GCD buttons are probably going to look like PC PC PC PR LO DK LO EB WR FR SSS and that's not even going into what its going to look like with all the extra weaves we can get in now with an extra 5 seconds of buff windows

[@Snowinmyears]

this is a really interesting point! i'm so excited to see how we go about our lunar nadi windows, and how we squeeze out the extra potencies in our even burst windows. Tho i'm on the fence when it comes to SSS being used in burst windows, but that's mainly a question of feel (specifically the recast timer for SSS). I'm also interested in seeing how the burst windows with both nadis are gonna pan out; are we gonna use demolish between PBs to have enough coeurl fury after a triple PC PB? Regardless, looking forward to DT monke

[@Its_an_Eze]

The experimenting is gonna be funnn and I look forward to it 😁😁

[@Veotax]

Ooh! This has refreshed Monk for me, I think! I started playing in Stormblood and I've been a MNK main the whole time, except for most of EW's patch cycle, and I've been actively thinking about changing main for DT, but I think these changes have shaken it up enough that I want to continue as MNK for at least the next expansion!

[@creepypato3984]

But they've changed nothing but adding a finisher to Riddle of Fire and Wind :p

[@MrRyu45]

I actually like the combo changes. This looks more interesting to manage over damage buff and DoT imo.

[@MrKanti-yy5ux]

It is literally the same shit without timers. There is no management, there's just don't be an idiot.

[@noble3696]

@@MrKanti-yy5ux Its worse when you realize there might aswell never be a reason to use dragonkick if the potencies stay the same

[@xL0stKIlah]

They removed the best buff ability in the game and now force you to use specific moves to get any at all. Terrible

[@XLR108]

I love how flashy the new animations are, if any job need flashy cool animations it should be monk

[@davidbonney9841]

I'm not sure if it's a tooltip oversight or if it's an intended change, but I noticed SSS adds 80 potency per chakra open and doesn't list an upper limit. Brotherhood allows up to 10 chakra to be open (as opposed to naming them overflowing chakra stacks or something of that nature). I would love to test to see if the 10-chakra SSS dump really can hit for over 1500 potency.

[@RinBanana]

Yeah, this is a thing you can do! Whether it will end up an overall DPS gain in buff windows due to the extended GCD or not, I'm not sure, but this is a thing that you can do

[@uldralawd4095]

​​@@RinBanana Would I be right in assuming you could fire off 2-3 max potency SSSes during a single buff window? Seeing as this hits even harder than PR, I hope it's a DPS increase despite that awkward GCD.

[@mabanginn]

@@uldralawd4095 if the potency numbers stay the same, 10 stacks of chakra would boost SSS by 800, which is the same potency as 2 Forbidden Chakras and uses up the same amount of potency, so i don't think it'll be a DPS gain because of the awkward GCD. This feels more like squenix not wanting you to waste chakra stacks when you go into downtime, so they gave you a way to throw them all in a final hit and then build them up with meditation while you wait for the boss to get back

[@steveh1474]

@@mabanginn consider crit rate also. youre far more likely to get one crit SSS for 1580 potency than to get 3 crits from using those chakra the right way and whatever other GCD you want to be using at that moment. id wager the absolute best monk parses will gamble on their buff windows and score direct crits on max power SSS. unlikely to happen, but incredibly juicy when it does. probably passing 300k in a single hit, maybe 350k?

[@mabanginn]

@@steveh1474 unless that crit would cover the GCD that you lose and the delayed bootshine, i don't think it's worth the risk of crit fishing

[@MidoriGrey]

Man, it'll be something to adjust to for bursts. I guess we're holding our buffs til just before the first blitz or somethin to spare it time for our new gcd's Regardless, My love for Monk is too strong for me to be dissuaded from any changes it gets. I'll just relearn it and enjoy the experience of self-teaching my rotation once again.

[@Gillian_FFXIV]

Exactly my thoughts as someone who also self teaches rotations and the likes, lol. See you in DT, friend!

[@Snowinmyears]

my hopium paid off! Will still be a monk main in DT 😎

[@sweepingtime]

I found it interesting that the MNK weapons here look like the double-ended daggers that you find in Buddhist iconography- symbolizing the idea that when you attack someone, you also attack yourself.

[@miqotesoulia8620]

very promising! looking forward to trying these changes out. Something tells me it will be a BIG part of Week 1 of Savage clears.

[@FinalQueue007]

Definitely interesting, don't mind the change (honestly fine with current Monk but i've noticed i'm in the minority on that lol)

[@mabanginn]

Since Elixir Burst = Rising Phoenix potency, and there's no dot/buff upkeep now, is the new opener gonna be Double Lunar?

[@TheMexRAGE]

As a SaGa i was hoping the dragon punch was called Shenlong Firefist and the Tiger one called Tiger Break

[@Banana-cc5rx]

Cant wait to try brotherhood + 6 sided star lmao. That 780 + 800 chongus

[@raarasunai4896]

I’ve been trying to theorycraft how to fit the Replies into the opener for the best damage, and so far the best I’ve come up with is using Fire’s Reply after bootshine and before Perfect Balance, using the Formless fist it gives to use Dragon Kick, THEN Perfect Balance to start the Elixir Burst combo. Wind’s reply could slot in after Rising Phoenix.

[@NobutakaFairclough]

As monk is one of my two mains I'm very excited for it in Dawntrail.

[@James-kv3ll]

If they had Brotherhood give you the Nadi you don’t have (or random if none) then we wouldn’t need to do the double solar opener anymore.

[@Titanxzero1]

@@James-kv3ll Screw Off

[@lantharion8399]

There's a chance I'm way off on my math, but I'm pretty sure at those numbers Six Sided Star will always be worth finishing off at 5+ chakras in Brotherhood+RoF window. Six Sided Star uses 2 GCDs worth of cooldown, so with 780 potency it averages at 390 per GCD. I'd expect to see some potency changes at launch, but this is only slightly less damage per GCD than the coeurl form skills (400 with positional). New Forbidden Chakra is 400 potency, this means that two coeurl GCD+Forbidden hits 1200 and Six Sided Star hits 1180+ at 5 Chakra or more. I've cherry picked the strongest standard GCD and not included buffs yet. So if done as the last GCD in the buff window, Six Sided Star should pull ahead at 5+ chakra compared to two GCDs (one buffed, one unbuffed) plus Forbidden. It looks like design intention that Monks use Six Sided Star as their last burst GCD if you still have 5+ Chakra, which is nice since I'm guessing overcapped chakra go away when brotherhood wears off. Edited: Forbidden Chakra potency was buffed to 400 in the tour numbers so I've changed things to match that.

[@Its_an_Eze]

It's something to think about. As a monk main I love seeing these kinds of comments and discussions cause it's giving us stuff to think about and being constructive with what's going on. Yeah I think depending on if and by how much potency changes this may be a route sure. It just comes down to the situations I suppose. Still, appreciate this though!

[@lantharion8399]

​@@Its_an_Eze I agree about the discussions as I enjoy seeing my fellow monks figuring out the puzzles presented by the kit. I'm still personally cautious about my own conclusion here because I know there will be a lot more to consider than just the potency in figuring out if/how this will be used. But the thought experiment is worth entertaining since it's a tool we possess now.

[@ahmedfalahy9337]

Six-sided star = 780 potency Bonus damage per stack = 80 potency/stack Max stacks under brotherhood = 10 780 + (80×10) = *1580 potency* Yeah, thats a lot of damage and thats not including crit direct hit

[@badmsme5279]

Unless I'm reading it wrong, Dragon Kick to Leaping Opo just increases Opo's potency by 100. You said that it guarantees the crit, but the crit is from being under opo-opo form not from consuming the opo-opo fury stack. Which would mean that Dragon Kick would never get used since the Leaping Opo's guaranteed crit is better than the extra 100 potency. Also in your closing you said that building and spending fury was more active and varied than before -- can you explain that? Isn't it more strict and simplified now that you build/consume stacks rather than managing timers, but is otherwise almost the same? (granted, I like the gauge and that it actually helps new players figure out how to play the job -- just seems like it's make the rotation more static and less engaging, not more active and varied)

[@XieronDraxin]

Monk's are LIVING this expansion, I'm so ready

[@Daemic9]

Since brotherhood opens it up to 10 chakra, Six sided star at full chakra would be 780+800=1580 potency, compared to Forbidden chakras 340 (680 since 10 stacks is two forbiddens)

[@kidop6]

one thing to keep in mind is its looks like SSS still keeps the 2 gcd cooldown so its not a straight 1:1 comparison as TFC is an ogcd. Its really comparing the potency of 2 TFCs and the GCDs you would hit between them to the potency of a 10 chakra SSS.

[@loyalkhayal5842]

So.... the same. They just made it a bit flashy with a new gauge/wpnskills, dumbed it down by getting rid of timers, and added a bit more aoe/utility.

[@Cherryblossoms110]

Huh? It's very different. Filler doesn't really define a class... (except for maybe dragoon because of how Life Surge works) most of them can be dumbed down to a basic 1-2-3. The burst phase has completely changed and now instead of focusing on maximizing timers, it focuses on fitting as many high potency skills in the buff window as possible, similar to Samurai, and perfect timing SSS, similar to what a Bard would do for Iron Jaws. There's also a fair chance that requiring high FPS or third-party tools is no longer required to do well on this class, now that Disciplined Fist is gone. I don't know what the rotation's going to end up looking like, but 10 chakra SSS, Wind's Reply, Fire's Reply, Elixir Burst, and Rising Phoenix alone total 5580 potency, which is over half Ninja's current 13-gcd opener potency (8,790) so combined with Monk's already sky high filler damage and Brotherhood being upgraded to 20 seconds, there's a pretty good chance Monk will be the strongest support melee come DT (maybe behind Dragoon because of how Litany works)

[@loyalkhayal5842]

@Cherryblossoms110 You can do well on this job without the use of third-party tools or super fps and the rotation isn't very different.

[@frightgeist1404]

5 chakra Six-sided is 1180 (400 +780), if it can consume Brotherhood's Chakra over stack, that would go up to 1580 (800 + 780). The Forbidden Chakra deals 340 ogcd 340 > 400 because Six sided star's gcd is about 4 seconds while probably off raid buffs. 680 < 800 because its on raid buffs (but risks losing chakra from overflow) I'm positive I'm getting these numbers right, but I don't know too much about dps when accounting for skill/spell speed and the value of potency to recast timers. I'm sure the intention isn't to forgo spending on Forbidden Chakra for a slightly buffed Six sided, just something to increase potency knowing there's a down time window and you want to end strong.

[@godsplayingfield]

the thing i liked the idea of monk being the "weave your attacks whoever you like, it's the combo master" type job, kinda fell flat previously with it having a pretty set in stone rotation. easy to fix if you needed to but still. but if this new system allows them to combo however they like while still being optimal thats a great thing.

[@IKeepGettingFlagged]

It doesn't though, they still follow a very simple flowchart of: Do you have a stack of X form? --> if yes, use the GCD for that stack, if no, use the GCD that resets the stacks. Comboing however you like will only overcap your stacks which will probably be far from optimal.

[@cleyra8550]

I don't think Forbidden Chakra has changed potency wise, so it's 400 for 5 chakra...which 80 x 5 for Six-sided Star potency buff. It sounds like it's the same, which is neat.

[@TheDarkFable]

But he said Chakra goes up to 10 now

[@cleyra8550]

@@TheDarkFable Okay, mental exercise time. If you have 10 Chakra, that's two uses of Forbidden Chakra = 400 + 400 = 800 potency If you have 10 Chakra, that's 800 (80 x 10) extra potency to Six-sided Star. Same damage in the end, jus split up differently. I'm sure someone smarter than you or I will find some niche uses.

[@TheDarkFable]

@@cleyra8550 im pretty sure they've said somewhere in here you can apply all 10 charkra to one 6 sides star

[@ek9750]

really happy with everything that monk got this expansion the only thing I am not sure how to feel about is the new bootshine upgrade

[@COA5T]

Praise Rhalgr!

[@Scoutrider127]

very happy monk main rn

[@Quetzelkoa]

I really like SSS using chakra, it a good skill right before a downtime phase and meditate is a great followup while you wait to get back in the fight. Now youre less likely to be chakra capped during that downtime.

[@axelbourne1641]

Please, tell me there is a way to get your nadi prepull its the only thing i been hoping from this update

[@Setuaro]

Honestly? The best change to Monk is that the 1-2-3 combo have FINALLY gotten their godsdamned upgrades. Those animations were jarring to look at compared to all the high-action animations of basically every other action you had xD Beyond that, glad they removed the weird flowchart playstyle of Monk's basic rotation.

[@2Syndras1Cup]

I will gladly stop crying about positionals being gone, since they were the only thing that kept me awake while playing, if this does the same but new.

[@CineGoodog]

Im pretty sure the optimal 2 min (considering you openner is double solar) would be opo > Coeurl > coeurl. It is going to be more potency to do 1 opo + 2 coeurl in the PB window than the regular 3 opos we do in current mnk since we can get 3 buffed coeurl stacks dragon kick will not be the best filler anymore.

[@obamaorb7426]

Honestly, i never really enjoyed EW monk but this looks very fun to me

[@Vulcanfaux]

So what I'm still trying to figure out, is when we get access to that new gauge. Nothing I saw really points out when we get it. Is it a thing we have starting at 50? 60? Or do we not get it til 92 with the upgraded skulls. Cuz if that's the case it's gunna feel weird since we are losing leadin fist.

[@TruNJ]

Guessing lvl 18 since that's when you get twin snakes

[@The_vataru_guy]

I might finally pick up monk now, looks really good

[@coolseel]

banger vid

[@Fluttershy08]

Hmmm im torn between ninja and monk now for dawntrail both look way better than they were. Monk's damage is crazy tho

[@tomasfrancia3263]

Its awesome

[@shaunabdilla9949]

The main takeaway from this video is constantly checking my gauge. What made me fall in love with the 6.0 version of Monk was that I didn't even have to glance at my hotbars. Now, Monk in 7.0 is a completely different beast. Goodbye, Monk, my love-you were the last job I enjoyed in this game.

[@Setuaro]

​@@ErraticFaith Gameplay does not equal to Class Fantasy/Identity so let's not confuse the two, shall we? (TL:DR at bottom) Besides, WoW's class fantasy has honestly suffered for a long time by either strangely limiting what direction the class leans towards (specializations like Frost, Fire or Arcane mage) while most tend to have a broad skillset in-lore that uses a bit of everything within the class. The only classes at this moment with any kind of Class fantasy I'd say would be Monk, Evoker, Warlock & Death Knight, maybe Priest if they could actually pick a goddamn lane. Every job in FFXIV on the other hand has a very distinct visual representation of what they are and ultimately- what they do. Every action they have is packed to the brim with flavour. A warrior actually feels like you're a raging madman, thaumaturge very clearly dapples into classical themes of magic (In spite of the weird retcons since 1.0...) Each of the healers even have a distinct flavour of recovery magicks. When it comes to gameplay, WoW's a lot more... bland on most of the classes at least, some exceptions being Arcane/Fire Mage, Pres/Aug Evoker and Shadow Priest. Typical melee classes revolve around build/spend resources and pressing whatever button happens to light up if you get a proc here and there, none of them even scratch the surface of requiring more than half a braincell to play decently. Save for the ones I've mentioned in this paragraph in regards to being the exceptions, every other class lets you faceroll the keyboard with no repercussions. Casualization is a trend that happens in basically every game nowadays. And besides, you're currently judging a video. Yes it may look simple- it may even *be* simple but that doesn't mean it won't be fun. A bit contradictory to my previous paragraph perhaps but in FFXIV you know how each job plays but you still have to decide how you fulfill their respective needs in combat despite the simplicity. I enjoy Reaper as much as I do Black Mage, arguably the easiest Melee DPS vs Hardest Caster but the Reaper has such a distinct building/spending rotation that it just feels more impactful to me than it does on say- Monk at the moment. TL:DR, don't judge how fun or interesting something is without trying it first and don't confuse gameplay for job identity. FFXIV has the most Class Fantasy of any MMO on the market, more than WoW- which I'm saying as someone who grew up playing & loving WoW (and still do)

[@valiant7251]

Really disappointed to see those changes Monk having a DOT opened up some really cool skill expression in some select fights, particularly those with two targets like TEA And these changes also mean monk will need even less positional variation than before. I hope the elongated GCD rotation cycle for downtime really makes it shine

[@MagiusNecros]

I think they removed the dmg buff from Twin Snakes and the DoT from Demolish so Monks won't just spam Dragon Kick since you could do relatively the same damage as the regular rotation. That's what it looks like to me.

[@valiant7251]

@@MagiusNecros Might be, but I'm pretty sure they mostly wanted to make the standard rotation a bit easier to approach. I've had countless discussions with people afraid of trying monk because short timers made them stresful. Imo could've SE made some effort to strengthen visual feedback before ditching the timers altogether. Like integrating disciplined fist and leaden fist to job UI (the latter being reminiscent to the current changes) and add a damm option to make your own inflicted DOTs bigger. Add to that maybe a nerf to DK potency and bigger leaden fist buff or smth. But I'm just throwing words out there because I'm a bit distraught, I'm not a game designer in any way

[@MagiusNecros]

@@valiant7251 They had plenty of opportunities to nerf DK in 6.X but they never did and doinf the DK meme rotation was actually pretty easy when you only reapplied Twin Snakes when the 15 seconds fell off. About the same time Demolish fell off as well. I think the changes were just to get players to use the regular combo again with positionals. Gonna have to test Monk ingame to see how it plays. Might be better then before but we will see.

[@Demorid]

I've always struggled to enjoy monk but this may actually be the expansion where I make it my main. I've already been playing a fair bit of monk lately and I already like it a lot more than I used to. These new QoL makes monk a strong contender for me now.

[@Feast_]

Wow, for somebody like me, Monk feels playable again. I might level this up after Viper and Sage

[@red5robb1]

I feel like this new job gauge is going to make perfect balance a little awkward to use. Overall though i think i like the changes

[@Banana-cc5rx]

don't think it will make much difference since you will still be spending a opo-raptor-coeurl fury for solar but now with added damage. Lunar PB is likely gonna be the weird one will have to see

[@Raionhardt]

I quit monk because i hated the mess of perfect balance optimization. Looking forward fo new monk

[@Titanxzero1]

I honestly never understood that issue. It seemed fine personally speaking.

[@walwal6449]

They... Removed the dot and buff? Im absolutely returning to monk now

[@double_joseph327]

So does monk have a ranged attack now or what?!?

[@Harrowing999]

Kind of? Enlightenment has always been sort-of ranged, but Wind’s Reply and Fire’s Reply look like they can be cast at range. But sadly tied to cool downs

[@SeanTheShinigami]

Wind and Fire Replies are ranged attacks but tied to CDs as said above. Wind is 10y range and Fire is 20y.

[@double_joseph327]

@@SeanTheShinigami that’s legit I think long cooldown ranged attacks make the most sense

[@Manawolf25]

Earth's reply just upsets me as a healer main. Monk was a nice job to have since they could help you through mantra. They really need to stop putting aoe/excessive heals in the kits of tanks and dps. I don't mind a job getting some self-sustain, but that's not what earth's reply is. Honestly before seeing this, monk and bard were my favorite dps that could assist healers while not healing for them. It'd be better if the heal was just for the monk imo. Other than that, everything else is looking pretty cool for monk.

[@Manawolf25]

I don't really mind having a simpler rotation. I personally don't see the rotation as being the big issue for the healers in the game. I do think that proving dps as a healer when healing isn't needed is perfectly fine and finding the moments to balance healing and dps is a skill that healers should strive to gain. That said, I don't play a healer to be a watered-down caster, but I would like it if they could provide more stuff for the healers to heal in instances. That or have more interesting mechanics to do within the fights. While I have gone through a decent number of extremes, I haven't played through a savage raid while it was current content. As it is now, I don't see myself playing the higher end content because I either have more important stuff or other games I want to try out to balance outside of 14. They can make do with the simpler dps kits they gave the healers by giving more precise moments that need the healing they gave to their already powerful arsenals. I would also appreciate if they could design the jobs to not overstep their roles and heal for the healers. Healing actions increased, shields, minor mitigation, and even an effect like esuna (like bard's warden's paean) are perfectly fine with me. I don't even mind some minor self-healing as long as it's not aoe or too self-sufficient. Give me moments like in Shinryu's trail, Thunder God, Pandaemonium, and Arm of the Son where there's a mechanic that uses healing in a more interesting way than just another raid wide. Have moments where you split the party up and have the roles play out what they should do other than just damage for the tanks and healers. Give mechanics that don't have the players just stay out of the danger zones while everyone keeps doing their rotation as per usual. The developers have done this before, and they can do it again. The fight quality isn't a problem because it's not hard enough, they just aren't interesting fights to do on repeat. I would be quite happy to see some more mechanic heavy fight design in Dawntrail than avoid overlapping aoes and stand out of the red danger zones. I'm personally not against downtime in a fight if you give a fun mechanic in place of it. Personally, Endwalker was lacking in a lot of this. I do like some of the fights, but compared to other expansions, Endwalker wasn't very interesting with the fight design. Imo they should limit the healing on warrior, dancer, summoner, and reaper. Any ideas they have for giving party heals in Dawntrail should be reworked into something else as well. Healing isn't in the best spot right now for 14, but I don't think the dps kit for healers is the biggest issue they should look at for fixing it. I definitely think them rethinking how they make the fight design to include ways to incorporate the healing kits of healers into mechanics would be better than just giving an aoe dot to each healer or giving 1 or 2 new damage spells.

[@Doku71]

Was starting to play again a few days before DT, MNK still felt fine to me, as did BLM. Now coming into DT, MNK feels so rigid and dull. A set routine to follow, after I had just gotten use to not having to perform positional for every GCD. All the changes did for me was just solidifying dropping MNK for SAM. I do not like it, years of muscle memory just invalidated, better to take the opportunity to learn a different class.

[@Titanxzero1]

Damn I didn't think it was bad man

[@whodistoodis]

I didn't know how to feel about MNK after the job trailer live letter, but wow, this looks amazing. The combo system is something that's always kind of bothered me since its not really comboing, stringing moves together in unique and dynamic ways to take advantage of a situation, just pressing a boring 1-2-3 cycle. And sure, MNK still follows a cycle, but boy howdy does it look like an exciting one.

[@Polychromatic8]

I'm not sure you understand MNK. It's about buff and debuff upkeep, so you're alternating between the damage and support combos seamlessly to do that and if you're not doing the braindead rotation like Rinon said you adapt burst windows to accommodate your dot in particular every time for up to 6 minutes then it loops. It is not "boring 123". Do you even play monk lol?

[@whodistoodis]

@@Polychromatic8 Yeah, do you? Sure, its not boring 123, its boring 123456. Keeping uptime flawlessly on your buffs and debuffs can be done without thinking about it by repeating the same sequence of attacks over and over. The new combo systems looks like it gives us choices on what to do, when we want to do it, and to optimize on positioning. Didn't say anything about how the base combo interacts with the rest of the kit, but the current set of basic combo moves we have are pretty boring.

[@Polychromatic8]

@whodistoodis In TOP/ultimates/savage. And again, you're not pressing snakes and demolish at the same time every time in sequence. It is not set in stone, which is why a lot of players complain about upkeep. Not playing the braindead rotation is where there is actual optimization re: bursts. In DT you'll be doing the same thing every time by the looks of it. And you'll be following the same pattern for normal combos regardless since there's no buff/debuff upkeep so i dont know where you are getting your ideas from. You're just spending your form gems as you get them which means you have a slightly longer flowchart than normal (two true strike/rising raptor and three snaps/pouncing), except this one doesn't change unless because of extended downtime you somehow need to quickly get more gems before burst and that may not even matter. Outside of potentially that I dont think there is any variance or optimization in basic combos and wind's rumination doesn't even give formless so... The "choices" you seem to be on about are actually what having to consider the dot and damage buff in relation to downtime (and burst) allows you to have. Not eternal form gems you spend seemingly without thinking (as you will probably never want to waste them). I'm almost certain you won't need full gems in burst phases, and if you do you will likely have them when you get to burst otherwise normal play could be a driftfest that takes away one "problem" and adds another for the players the devs are trying to appeal to.

[@whodistoodis]

@@Polychromatic8 I'll concede that you are correct. I don't play MNK in savage/ultimate, just casually, but I do enjoy optimization. I say this since your case sounds a lot like my own take on the BLM changes, a class I do challange high end content with. BLM has the illusion of gained complexity, but has been railroaded in such a way that its optimization and skill ceiling has been significantly lowered, much like MNK as you descibe it at a high level seems to be. That all said, we'll really have to wait to get our hands on it to pass any final judgements, but you have made your case well.

[@-durnehviir]

the old elixir field looked way cooler. rip

[@neku6970]

Still no aura 😖

[@StronkSpriggan]

Deranged string of thoughts: Damn those are some based changes, they leant into what i love about the job without changing it too much. Was so scared they'd homogenize by getting rid of SSS and give us a (no cooldown) ranged GCD. RoW still on 90 sec cooldown, love to see it ^.^ And as a Mantra enjoyer ecstatic they've given us an aoe heal too (even if only 5y radius kekw)

[@GregHealthy]

Monk is your healer at home

[@xL0stKIlah]

They removed the best dmg buff in the game and our dot. Wake up lol

[@gfdf511]

elixir field :(

[@xL0stKIlah]

I guess monk was too good so they had to neuter it along with the rest of jobs in the name of balance. Bye ff

[@rievenailo]

Monk is the third class I've picked up after drg and rdm, just hit 90 this week. Been enjoying running around with a Tifa inspired outfit on my cat man while having a portrait that looks like him hanging upside down in a padded room.

[@vkrunk7]

Rip DK spam monk. Those potency changes is just proving that. All the Beast Fury attacks recieving their added potency after spending a stack just out performs the need for non standard MNK. Demolish/Pouncing Coerul for Lunar may be the best approach now perhaps. I'm loving this based off what I'm seeing. The BH change being at the start of getting the skill is fantastic along with Earth's reply. Nadi management is gonna be something in the upcoming DT fights. Theory crafters do your work.

[@creepypato3984]

If the potencies in this video go live and work as written, we might see the rise of Six-sided Star monk almost exactly as Dragon Kick worked; better when you screw up, worse if you can keep up a regular rotation. Since it deals like 590p per GCD (since it's 2 GCDs, 1180p total)_ at 5 Chakras, it's slightly more than guaranteed Crit Oppo with a chance of crit itself. You'd lose potency on each crit since each chakra that you open can be assigned a value of 1/5th the oGCD Forbidden Chakra, which is like 70p as it stands currently. During burst however, if the Brotherhood extra chakra count for Six-Sided, each GCD would be 1580p total at 10 chakras for a half-value of 790p per GCD, with the finishers going for 900p and requiring less-strong GCDs to achieve, mayhaps it can be sorta-almost-done

[@vkrunk7]

@@creepypato3984 I saw that, but it’s still on a long cd so May still be niche or a finishing hit before bh finishes. Its potency May be juiced af with ten stacks

[@creepypato3984]

@@vkrunk7 I wrote it in my reply that a Six-Sided Star is equal to 2 GCDs, so you only need to divide the potency to see the real damage

[@vkrunk7]

@@creepypato3984 oh my bad I was still waking up.

[@Banana-cc5rx]

tbh DK spam is just breaking class immersion lol. MNK was never meant to be played that way neither does most classes.

[@Dyxid]

Another one of those jobs I wasn't a fan of to begin with, and unfortunately it seems like it's going to stay that way because the changes just amplify what I didn't like about them already.

[@SeanTheShinigami]

How so when it's pretty different from the past iteration??

[@final_frostasy]

Is anatman still lame

[@joemama1717]

its gone forever

[@final_frostasy]

@joemama1717 oh that's too bad, I liked the animation outside of combat. Would have liked it to have served a purpose

[@joemama1717]

@@final_frostasy i mean it has a good animation but the problem with it that it doesnt have any use outside savages with downtime or ults other than that it doesn’t have much use unfortunately, i wish that they also removed or made six sided an ogcd cuz it will give a fast job like monk a so much down time due to its long cd

[@coolman5242]

@@final_frostasy Same, Anatman was just a genuinely cool looking skill, still bummed that it's going away

[@final_frostasy]

@@coolman5242 making it a monk emote or something would be ccol

[@Azkr-]

And there goes the last bit of originality in this job Reaper was there for the 40 year olds that don't know how to keep up 2 timers

[@ichi-obi]

its literally the same just without dogshit optimizations

[@Azkr-]

@@ichi-obi Sorry to hear you don't play with sub 20 ms ping

[@Azkr-]

@@ichi-obi There is 0 dogshit optimizations in Monk. You want dogshit ridiculous stuff? Go look at BLM players who have gone as far as promote using cheats over managing an MP Tick for optimization. What is dogshit about Monk? That you have to late weave RoF? That you have the freedom of adjusting your rotation on the fly if something happened? That you can literally fix the previous point by clipping your two main timers? Man that's crazy

[@Setuaro]

@@Azkr- Honestly, I mained Monk for a good while and while it was fun having to consider what stance I was in, I felt like I was just going down a flowchart when it came to keeping the timers up. It wasn't very intuitive and more often than not the whole rotation could get messed up when mobs do an aoe that forces you to move out of melee range for like 1 second. Upkeeping timers on a Monk besides hasn't ever really felt like it belongs. I don't mind the added challenge but it didn't seem right from the very start. You can have criticism but at least let it be constructive and without snide or snarky remarks to people who make a statement.

[@Azkr-]

@@Setuaro That's what the drift rotation was there for Your single job is to land two blitzes under ROF and BH and two demolishes under ROF. Outside of that you literally could press anything no matter how rotated you were as long as twin snakes is active Also "some random AoE"? No one includes janky fights when discussing a Job; what we have currently are sterile fights where a Mnk should never struggle with uptime

[@James-kv3ll]

I hate leaping opo. It looks dumb. Give me back my punches

[@Titanxzero1]

I disagree. It looks pretty cool dude.

[@James-kv3ll]

@@Titanxzero1 ? And? Look up “opinion“ in the dictionary and Fk off

[@camil-jr]

I am so glad the AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL demolish and twin strikes dot and buff are gone. absolutely GARBAGE design as soon as we hit Stormblood and onwards

[@chexrail]

This expac has some of the most underwhelming job changes, may as well call it endwalker 2 every job got the same change, a button to press under 2 minutes making them even more to the same of each other.

[@melio_.]

Wah wah wah

[@Karatarari]

Honestly I'm curious to hear what you want to see, like are you a person who thinks MNK should have positionals on each attack because you think its more engaging? You want classes that have even shorter rotation periods or longer rotation periods meaning no ones on the same buff cycle? I'm not joking I truly am curious to hear.

[@MastaToken]

See you in DT lmfao

[@chexrail]

@@Karatarari I really couldnt give less of a damn about positionals as long as there is a rotation and job mechanic that isnt a copy of another job that just spits out different colors. (shb/ew/dt) Its NOT my job to tell Square how to make these jobs, they're a triple A company this should be expected from them. a LIVE service game. Had this be any other company ppl would be livid. Square always gets the pass and im tired of it.

[@chexrail]

@@melio_. we get it. FF players hate meaningful conversation, whether it be about the state of the game or genuine concerns for it. Keep slopping up that yoshi P pr