Monk Subclass Ranking Baldur's Gate 3 - bg3 Patch 6

[@hunterx608]

i think you missed out on a couple of things regarding the 4 ele monk. I think the fangs of the fire snake ability is the bread and butter of the subclass. That ability is practically a punch with range. It procs unarmed strike of course but also procs extra attack AND gives a 1d4 fire dmg buff for the rest of the turn meaning at lvl 5 for example, you can initiate with fangs, then flurry which procs the 1d4 fire dmg on both hits, and then you still have extra attack available. The 1d4 fire dmg also applies if you throw weapons! Another interesting thing is that water whip's prone is the only prone i've seen (so far) that has infinite duration. This usually doesnt matter but remember that standing up costs 50% move spd so if you combo this with something like plant growth which QUARTERS move spd, the proned enemy will repeatedly skip their turn. Normally they would also recover when the "prone" debuff ends except water whip's prone is infinite meaning they skip turns until plant growth ends which turns water whip into a 10 turn stun! In my opinion 4E monk is way better than shadow monk at least until lvl 11 when they get shadowstrike. I think shadow monk especially early on is just a worse version of other things. Their silence isnt a ritual spell so you HAVE to spend the ki points. Darkvision is never worth the cost of casting it when half the races have it and scrolls and elixirs of darkvision exist. minor illusion is very very good BUT (again imo) only needed on 1 person in the party and you can just take it on gale and wyll (and EK lae'zel, AT astarion), cloak of shadows is not something i'd use in combat since invis potions exist and are bonus actions although to be fair it doesnt cost anything so it's nice for out of combat shenanigans. Darkness and pass without trace are fine and bonus action hide is great but that just seems like a worse rogue/gloomstalker ranger. Shadowstep is super cool and personally my main reason to even try shadow monk! I could be missing something or have just not built a good shadow monk but i dont see how shadow competes with 4E since shadow doesnt get any kind of dmg increase from the subclass until shadowstrike at lvl 11 and the utility is very lackluster as well since invis potions and darkness arrows exist and even for scouting just send in a gith's invisible mage hand or any kind of summon that you dont mind throwing away.

[@liberalideas8224]

Also, I got the throw this bit out here. I have no clue what WOTC or BG3 was thinking with way of the four elements. It has already been rehashed to death by many others, but it wouldnt take very much to fix it. Get rid of all the sudo spells stuff. Give it: Level 3 * reaction & 1 ki to get resistance to elemental damage until end of next turn when taking any elemental damage * make unarmed attacks at say...20 foot range, pick elemental type, using wisdom instead of dex for hit and damage Level 6 * Deflect Missiles now works on all ranged elemental attacks targeting the monk, using both dex and wisdom for the rolls Level 9 * Add damage to unarmed attacks based off of chosen element, also adds this damage to the ranged unarmed attack to improve that feature Level 11 * Channel elements to create an aura around the monk doing X damage to hostile targets within 10 feet (think level 5 spirit guardians) and granting allies resistance to that same damage type Boom. It is flavorful and interesting, yet not OP. It offers a more wisdom flavor of the monk than the other classes. It does a bit less damage than the open hand and has less utility than of way of shadow, but offers more defense and group support as a trade off.

[@CasualVeteranGamer]

Those are some good ideas! I'm not sure why they designed it so that their abilities are mostly just spells. If open hand can get a passive bonus to unarmed attacks at level 6, then at least give 4e monks the same option but with 4 different elements! Or even do it like the wildheart barbarians, except we get to choose different styles of attacks (defensive, ranged, melee, movement??), and can swap it as we level up? I would never profess to be a game designer, let alone a good one, as a player I am certainly disappointed by the 4e monks.

[@SirCharles12357]

I like it! Maybe someone will create a mod!

[@greenchilistudioz4537]

It also needs earth spells, why the fudge is it called way of the "four" elements lmao

[@retrosoul-]

It’s kinda crazy how loaded Open Hand is. Shadow Monk really scratches a certain fantasy though, and I love it even if it requires more planning.

[@CasualVeteranGamer]

Yeah, I am currently playing through honour mode as a solo shadow monk and it's been a blast so far!

[@sociogamingw3857]

1:28 - wow Mr. Half-Orc is tucked up and ready to do drag. He's got my dollar.

[@cwj157]

tavern brawler monk has to play STR... so i give up DEX and go CONS and wisdom? it is really confusing to create the starting stats for a tavern brawler monk because seems like you need all 4 stats...

[@gg_flingyflongynooberino8593]

I always stay with dex untill tavern brawler because not only does it give damage but also increases AC and other stuff. Once you have Tavern brawler you go full strenght and unarmed cuz your hit chance and damage is higher. and once you get your hands on strenght potions you can go 8 base strenght again and invest in wisdom or dex (or both) just to get high AC. I generally have 14 con on my monk untill I get my hands on a certain amulet. The high AC tends to be enough to keep me alive even in honor mode. Tavern brawler gives a stat in either strenght or con so if you use strenght potions you can have 13 or 15 base con and put that point there.

[@ChrisZukowski88]

keep strength at 10 and chug hill giant potions for the tough fights. Rest used for high dex, wisdom and constitution.

[@ilianekorkin5557]

There are enough hill giant potions in game to dump the STR stat completely and be fine :)

[@cadesummers5866]

The only thing that really stands out about way of the four elements is the spells * CAN * be cast while raging as a barbarian. Still though finding the right split and time to cast spells vs initiate a rage is a difficult task as well

[@notoriousnomad1541]

Love these vids

[@CasualVeteranGamer]

Love these comments!

[@gg_flingyflongynooberino8593]

the best thing about Ki punch is it's a way to make a unarmed strike while heaving a weapon equiped, one of my favourite combo's for open hand monk is vest of rejuvination and duellist's prerogative. you can purpously trigger enemy reactions and retaliate with an attack. The downside would be that you can't make an unarmed strike without expending a Ki point but reso-punch solves that. The strongest thing about this combo is that your classes extra attack works when you use a reaction to attack someone who misses you with the robe. So basicly you turn duellist extra reaction into 2 extra attacks on your turn. On another note, way of the elements works with arcane acuity so you can make a strong build that has 100% chance to paralyze a humanoid and then a fighter multiclass so you can attack it in the same turn and only crit.

[@Wolferys]

I wonder how youd rank the sorcerers, draconic bloodline ane storm sorcery are both very strong and its hard to decide whos first

[@CasualVeteranGamer]

I'll see when I get there! At the end of the day, it'll be similar to some other classes where the top subclasses end up with values so close to each other it's impossible to say with any certainty which is "best".

[@liberalideas8224]

Any ideas how you would prefer to re balance tavern brawler without nerfing the concept of a strength based monk? It might just be me, but I think all classes should have some fundamentally different ways to build them even in 5e table top. My BG3 examples though are: * strength based ranger (which I do love), * dex based fighter (when you think the best "archer" would be a cowboy instead of a hippy wannabe druid ;) ) * strength based rogue (not the best, but a lot fun with jumping and sneak throwing stuff) * charisma based paladin (playing for 2+ years on tabletop and most supportive build in bg3 IMO)

[@CasualVeteranGamer]

As far as I am concerned, having the bonus strength added to both attack and damage rolls is just too much, on top of the fact we have such easy access to elixirs of strength. Reducing the bonus to proficiency bonus instead and only have it apply to attack or damage rolls? It's ludicrous at just how good a tavern brawler is from level 4!

[@davidwagner3710]

They really should have reworked the str elixers on honor mode. Being able to have 21 or 27 str without any investment is just absurd. Really, they should have a cap on how much they increase str. An example would be Hill gives +5 with a max of 21 and cloud give +8 with a max of 27.

[@gg_flingyflongynooberino8593]

I think the problem is less "tavern brawler is to OP" but more "there are not a lot of unarmed based feats". I think it's strong because it has to be, all other classes benefit from their enchanted weapon effects and so on, as a monk you sacrifice a lot of those interesting effects. tavern brawler basicly makes monk more consistent then all other classes wich is needed (imo) because all other classes have more flexibility. This is not only from a point of balance but also to make it more fun to play the class. If you take flexibility from players you take fun with it, but being strong is also fun and therefor the class will be played. Without tavern brawler monk is just a worse version of barbarian. I do get how you mention that feats shouldn't be so bound with a specific class but truthfully feats (atleast in bg3) seem to be overall kinda stale. I bet that 10% of the feats are picked 95% of the time. In general i'd say that there is a great inbalance between the feats wich makes picking between them less of a choice and more of a necessity. I've played all classes by now and finished honor mode and still have prob only used max 10 different feats (prob less)

[@gg_flingyflongynooberino8593]

Ability improvement Dual wielder Great weapon master resilient (not often) Savage attacker Sharpshooter Tavern brawler War caster This is partially personal preference but this is about all the feats i use/need in my runs

[@liberalideas8224]

@davidwagner3710 Agreed, that isn't a bad solution at all. The only downside I see is very minor, but legit. I think boss had a pretty good solution too. Might be worth having both of those to be honest. Harder corer mode coming when?

[@soybomb777]

My elements monk was a master of knock-down. Used the high movement speed to find a vulnerable group on turn one and push them off ledges with monk thunderwave for a huge advantage

[@CasualVeteranGamer]

Sounds like good fun!

[@yellow6153]

best race for monk?

[@ilianekorkin5557]

i prefer wood elves to boost monk's mobility even further (or half elves if you prefer having a beard) :)

[@CasualVeteranGamer]

I also like wood elves as they also give some extra weapon proficiencies.

[@yellow6153]

nice, what about half orc for power?

[@CasualVeteranGamer]

@@yellow6153 Well, the savage attacks ability of half-orc only applies to weapon damage, which means your unarmed strikes won't benefit from it.

[@yellow6153]

ok thanks

[@DemonOfMyMind]

I found monk to be unwieldy in the early levels. They're so frail and they want to be in melee which got in the way of strong spells and abilities which could lock enemies down easier so my whole team was often much weaker to try and support their play style. Once I got to later levels, past level 6 they really begin to shine with both tavern brawler and extra attack. Yeah, you can offset some of the issues they have early levels with strength potion farming but that's a rather inorganic way to play in my opinion.

[@CasualVeteranGamer]

Your use of the term "inorganic" is a word I didn't know I was looking for. It really describes how I feel about certain aspects of the game, like potion farming, even if I am shamelessly using it in one of my runs currently!

[@GodofTrek]

Sadly, Monk is 100% the weakest solo class in the game. That said, a fighter 2, rogue(thief)3, monk is serious levels of OP.

[@CasualVeteranGamer]

I've not played enough solo to make any comment on that, especially as my first solo honour mode run is currently as a shadow monk!

[@SirCharles12357]

It's not the weakest. Shadow and Open Hands can kite enemies with enhanced movement. And all can STUN which is a boss I win button.

[@ilianekorkin5557]

Monk is only weak in the early game. It gets really strong as soon as you multiclass it with rogue. Monk 6/Rogue4/Fighter2 is an absolute, unbeatable beast in the late game if know how to play your cards right

[@FelipeArthurferpa]

I would say rogue as a monoclass is the weakest by far (I have played both as a monoclass)

[@CasualVeteranGamer]

@@FelipeArthurferpa I was going to write the same but as far as I am concerend monoclass and solo class are two different things. I assume that solo class means a class to solo the game with, not taking just a single class on a character.