Why Can't Yugioh Get New Players?

[@TeamAPS]

I just want to say your inclusion of Starter/Structure Deck concepts for Goat and Edison format is BRILLIANT. I've been really harping on this point (and others you made here) in my own videos and even when I get the chance to speak with Konami reps. I think there are a lot of really great player onboarding and retention tactics being left on the table here, and while I know not every solution is practical or possible for Konami (and that they likely have at least considered these and other methods), there's never any harm in talking about it anyway. Great video as always! 👍🏾

[@RarecuisineSaucegod-ig8bc]

Delinquent Duo needs a reprint please

[@omegalink314]

the Time Wizard Structures can be really cool, and I can see them also not being all 3~2-ofs like he showed in the video, being 1-ofs in this card will mean that you get more options when building your deck, and it will use more reprinted of relevant cards to each strategy that are maybe less popular, but can still see play

[@spicymemes7458]

I hope you and MonkeyFight collab sometime

[@kiracaos]

Although a great idea, I think that it would be better to introduce some sort of official ruling / tiers to the game and restrictiosn based on them. Let's say I wanna play Ace Strikers, well, I can't in Goat or Edison. Maybe allow rouge decks access to powerful staples, and restrict them so tier 0 decks can't use them, and balance how many staples a deck can use depending on their tier. But hey, it's just my opinion.

[@josephcourtright8071]

I think instead of trying to teach the entire game at once people need to take steps. A good two player starter would've had you play with no extra deck then maybe add sycho for game 2 ect.

[@Moshuun]

Being a new Yugioh player is like never working out and choosing the Great Wall of China as your first fitness challenge.

[@G0L0V0L0MKEE]

UNDAR RATE & APRE'CIA'TE

[@I8igf57jjgxr]

Facts

[@SnkHetz]

Yugioh is just boring, unnecessarily complex, long turns where you are just watching your opponent winning by doing a long and unnecessarily complex combo, total lack of collectionability, and very bad looking cards, you should have bad taste in order to play yugioh

[@Moshuun]

@@SnkHetz there’s still a lot of fun to have. Once I see a solitary deck, I just scoop. I’m not interested.

[@sc149]

I like cardgames. I played yugioh as a kid, had I think, iirc, what id now call a draw based tempo dec based around resummoning des lacooda into a few different attacking life points directly cards that opponents had to deal with while I stayed ahead in the value game. I have been looking for new games to play, moving away from mtg. IN MY PERSONAL PERCEPTION FROM CHECKING IT OUT AS A CARDGAME, THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA, AS A CARDGAME PLAYER :Yugioh seems to repeat a lot of hasbros corporate mtg issues, have weird art (massivly varying quality with a lot of horny cards I wouldnt want to play because of how they look), be harder and more confusing generally, similarly expensive, if anything more bigoted as a community especially to women which turns me off personally, more stringent deckbuilding with less customisaton and more "pick your choice of supported archetypes" and worse online. And, worst of all, has the public persona of being Cringe. In the end I went for Sorcery Contested Realm, despite it having only official tabletop simulator online support, because it was cheap, customisable and interesting with complexity that produced a fun and different play experience, rather than just a ton of card text.

[@ChaoticMeatballTV]

Wow, Konami hates their consumers? I wonder who could've told you that: -Metal Gear fans -Contra fans -Castlevania fans -Silent Hill fans -Suikoden fans -Zone of the Enders fans -Rocket Knight Adventures fans -All Hudson-Soft fans with the exception of Bomberman. They do this to all of their fandoms, and it's crazy how ignorant Yugioh players are to Konami's business practices. I mean they got into pachinko AFTER Japan's harsh regulations on the game, which is when companies like SNK pulled out of the market. If they can do something predatory, they will. And that's why I will literally only play Edison unless the box structure changes to make decks as affordable as the Pokemon TCG, with the limit being $200 for a minimum rarity deck.

[@Simply_Taido]

Pokemon is as cheap as it is mainly because it has a much larger casual playerbase than its own competitive player base. It mostly consists of people buying quantities of specific cards solely because they feature their favorite characters and Pokemon. It also helps that Pokemon is the most successful IP on the planet. YGO isn't and has never been anywhere near as popular as Pokemon. In fact, the TCG is essentially the complete opposite of Pokemon. It has a competitive playerbase that is louder than its casual playerbase. Also, unlike Pokemon, the TCG barely has a collector's market, and demand for specific cards and decks is heavily influenced by talking heads and the market culture within its own community. Copying the OCG rarity distribution wouldn't really solve anything. Because of these factors, YGO becoming as affordable as Pokemon is impossible.

[@SageTigerStar]

I'd love more Bloody Roar games...

[@hickknight]

@@Simply_Taido Despite all of that, Konami can do things to make the game more appealing. But it just isn't doing that and considering what chaoticmeatball said, it's just not a surprise at all. Konami is THE GREEDIEST company I know of, and there's a huge list of it around. Hell, I think one of the reasons why a starting point are grey area simulators is because of Konami's greed. There's just no way to get around that. As a certain someone has said many times before: FucKonami.

[@wahrt]

​@@hickknight wait, what? Master Duel/Duel Link are in the grey area?

[@hickknight]

@@wahrt Nope, because you need a guide and patience to not get stuck being forced to pay, just to catch up. The daily grind, in essence.

[@calumbishop7082]

The biggest problem with Yu-Gi-Oh is that Konami, the company that oversee's the product, are notorious for completely ignoring all feedback from non-Japanese players. Konami priorities success in Japan over international success. Yu-Gi-Oh is the 2nd largest card game in Japan after Pokemon, it is doing well in Japan, but its not doing well internationally, and Konami doesn't seem to care.

[@fnfgammer2014]

TCG is so mismanaged by Konami compared to the OCG: + Worse price, products, quality control, merch, product schedule, reveals, community interaction and presentation + The text format is worse. Even in Master Duel where the latest update gave OCG newest format for old cards (Add numbering, "Select" becomes "Target", etc), TCG only got ✨line break✨. They didn't even fix the problem about cards lying to players because of mistranslation + Doesn't do stuff beyond DM stuff + Doesn't have a database for rulings + Doesn't have a lot of the cool stuff OCG has There are probably more but those are what I can think off the top of my head.

[@therobloxmonkey6704]

At this point, Konami SHOULD care about the TCG. + One key detail to note is that compared to Japan, the West lacks any competition with the Trading Card Industry (Only Magic and Pokémon). Fast forward to 2024 and now there's more competition in the West (Lorcana, One Piece, Flesh and Blood, Digimon), and it looks like they're doing well. + Additionally, these games are using these tough times to their advantage as they open barriers for play. Take Pokémon for example. For those that may have not known, due to inflation, Pokémon has made pulling rare and powerful cards more common than before. Because of that tactic, it gives players the chance to get into the game; most players wanting to go for a casual experience while holding some powerful staples.

[@prestenikoseptirahadian9607]

Not 2nd largest anymore. I think it fell to 3rd with duel masters going strong in 2nd place now.

[@digitalstatictv]

As CaliEffect once said, the OCG is their baby and the TCG is their checkbook, we're basically funding the OCG

[@drdandalf]

The way I see it... Japanese (game) companies give zero f..ks about its international customer base, to the point that it's overly nationalistic at best... grossly racist at worst. One of the things I noticed more and more about Japanese people (particularly men) is that they are very racist and hate anything that isn't Japanese, no matter how much the rest of the world embraces them. How I see it, if Konami wants to shoot itself in the foot, then let them. The people in that company will soon learn how stupid they are at economics and financing.

[@skildfrix]

In OCG, you can lay down a card on the field, activate it's effect and summon your boss monsters with just $20. In TCG, it costs $500 dollars just to lay down a single card, and apparently get negated.

[@KengVue-y8k]

FACTS!

[@friendlyneighbourhoodsunwheel]

Yu-Gi-Oh has completely been dropped by 4 out of the 5 shops near me. It's a dying game in my region sure a shop has people who play but the stock on the shelves if there is any is a year out of date. It's just too fast and one sided for people to play and pay hundreds to play for half a turn and they you die or brick. They did this to themselves.

[@ChrisCash720]

They made it to complicated.

[@mugthemagpie3001]

They recently introduced YGO into the game shop nearby me with EXTREMELY cheap structure decks but events are barely a thing due to aforementioned powercreep. I think in Poland MTG has a massive advantage over other TCG due to costless shipping of cards, while all other TCG has to rely on shady auction sites (and it's extremely hard to recognize fakes at times) or Cardmarket which has absurd shipping costs for Polish realities and inability to ship into those shipping boxes you use code on and we cal InPost.

[@shelly8563]

Funny enough, in NZ all the local shops have dropped Pokemon entirely and only run MTG and Yugioh

[@friendlyneighbourhoodsunwheel]

@@shelly8563 Oh that's really odd because Pokemon is going gangbusters over here 🤣 and magic isn't going anywhere around here too

[@shelly8563]

@@friendlyneighbourhoodsunwheel Oh people still love collecting and buying cards over here, the game just isnt as popular but still really popular in sales

[@williamdrum9899]

Old school yugioh: FLIP: Destroy 1 monster on the field (regardless of position) Modern Yugioh: (the entire Bee Movie script)

[@waskithonugroho3955]

it our turn and need something like completely shutdown opp interaction in MP1 just to let you play in MP1 and that count as unhealthy deck lol

[@r3zaful]

Old school yugioh in reality : tribute of the doomed hitting 50/50 spear cretin or sangan and lose to deck out because you cant resolve your monster removal with 3 judgment and jammer in the back row.

[@r3zaful]

There is an illusion of playing while in fact you will lose no matter what and mirror match is just basically top deck war.

[@lanterns_glow]

Old Yu-Gi-Oh: Pay 1000 lp, steal one monster for 1 turn. Modern Yu-Gi-Oh: -the longest book ever written to say "No, youre not allowed to play the game"-

[@gabrieldevoogel6225]

@@r3zafulmaybe if you had modern mindset, and Solum judgement was limited almost immediately

[@ImrahilToChaos]

Turns out 25 years of never ending power creep is bad for the game. Who knew.

[@lanterns_glow]

Magic, meanwhile, has various play formats for the mechanics and sets. Modern uses the most recent sets, and often thw power cards get phased out. Commander, meanwhile, allows the entire history outside of silver bordered and acorn tagged of the cards to be used. While yes, theres metas, theres still the aspect that youre free to do Whatever. Set rotation helps

[@ArilliusDM]

Magic is older and doing fine. At least mechanically as a card game.

[@N12015]

@@ArilliusDM Almost as if putting limits to what a player can do is good for a multiplayer game.

[@ArilliusDM]

​@@N12015Yeah, that's generally how rules work with games.

[@soup8786]

​@lanterns_glow that's not modern that's standard. Modern is every card from 8th edition onwards

[@samuelcarrasco3829]

Konami prices got ygo players thinking, “maybe it really is just cardboard”

[@PredatorTheStealth]

Meanwhile, in Pokemon: you can build a Tier 1 Tournament Ready meta deck for more or less 50/60$ and participate in dozens of major tournaments with cash prizes. The very few times i happen to see a Yugioh player irl i can't not think "Why? Why in hell would you do this to yourself?"

[@nunyabusiness3957]

Meanwhile in Magic, by format: Commander; Usually 600-1000 for a comp deck. I run a mono-red turbo burn thats cheaper than most and it still hits 500$ Pauper: The cheapest format with only Commons: 80-150$. Will likely stay relevant unless several cards are on the ban radar. Standard: Oh boy. Rotating format. Rakdos Scam costs 1500$ to build, but RDW can get the job done for about 60$ Modern: Now we're breaking into 2000$ decks. Legacy: This is only for the whales among whales and decks break 10000$. Only OG and colelctors will play this format.

[@RealCodreX]

​@@nunyabusiness3957Wait what!? I have not played MTG in about 10 years. All the way back in 07/08 you could dominate the nationals with less than 100€/$/. Is it really that bad nowerdays?

[@f1r3hunt3rz5]

Same goes for Cardfight Vanguard. Man, all TCGs that I play are going down the drain

[@jt_papertrail]

@@nunyabusiness3957 commander is mostly casual format anyway, it’s the most popular mtg format and commander is by far the lowest barrier to entry for new players. In casual play you talking anywhere from $50 to $200 decks

[@jt_papertrail]

@@RealCodreXno, he’s talking crazy

[@williamscerbo458]

I'm a new player and while the basic rules for the game aren't complicated, the cards have so much text that I literally have no idea what my opponent is doing or what the choke points are to stop their combos. The learning curve feels really high. I'm still having fun with the game though

[@dudono1744]

As a rule of thumb, the normal summon tends to be a choke point. So, if you don't know what you're facing, dunk on the normal summon, they only have 1 of those after all. The first thing summoned from the Extra Deck can also be a big choke point since they're usually a key extender (think of stuff like junk speeder but a bit less extreme).

[@Cstan55157]

Yeah that's my problem, I like master duel but everyone else goes so fast and its hard for me to read all my opponenents stuff so I don't like irl play

[@fnfgammer2014]

​​@@Cstan55157 Master Duel makes playing so much easier. All the QOLs, being automatic, having mods like Readable Card Effects mod, etc. I honestly can't see how I would be able to play IRL.

[@Protect_all_ljf3forms]

Most people dont bother trying to figure out what their opponent’s cards do. Unless they see it more than once. This is why the meme of ygo players not reading is a thing. But you understand why

[@heftylad]

​@acasualgameryt6978 IRL you have 45 minutes for a best of 3, and it's okay if you don't play all three games, especially at locals. Ask your opponent what each card does, or ask to read every card. If they're a decent person (most are) they'll understand that you're new and you don't know what the cards do. I've been playing sporadically for years, I always ask everyone at my locals what all their cards do, even if I think I know. If you want to be the best player you have to learn what all the cards you're playing against do, but most people aren't the best player. If you play against the same cards enough times, or you go home and try out the deck for yourself on a simulator like EDOPRO or Nexus, you can quite quickly learn how other decks work. Learning how other decks work is a skill in and of itself, but again, you can just ask. I normally play rogue decks so basically every card I play people ask for the effect or to read it.

[@Schneemaa]

Too high level of entry both in terms of rules, rulings and complexity as well as price

[@mrbubbles6468]

$8-20 is high entry?

[@pristinedecision1877]

@@mrbubbles6468 What fucking game are you playing that is $8-20?

[@thekittenfreakify]

for entry the SD's work. 30 bucks is fair. specially when most docus on only 1 ed mechanic. They are competent at teaching the bread and butter plays of the deck.

[@N12015]

​@@mrbubbles6468 Depends. Per deck? Not at all. Per card? That's at best 560 USD.

[@NeutralGuyDoubleZero]

​@@mrbubbles6468structure decks are NOT competitively viable. They can teach basic rules and that's it. Great if they work for your personal group, not for actual playing in game shops or tournaments.

[@Derp595]

Buying 3 structure decks is nowhere near enough to compete with other players. I went to a local tournament with a 3 structure deck combined deck and I got beat so badly. The players there kept telling me I need to buy all these expensive cards to be able to keep up with them and make my own deck.

[@incredibledn]

what did you expect…

[@GinraiPrime666]

I haven't played the game since Synchro's were the main thing and even back then the game was getting ridiculous with needing the newest and most expensive cards if you wanna remain competitive. This was well over a decade ago and the power creep has only gotten more worse since then! If I ever play now its classic rulea and only for enjoyment.

[@Derp595]

@@incredibledn what do I expect? Not to spend like £800 just to keep up with a local scene, not even talking about tournament levels here.

[@amiasg9305]

Sounds pretty toxic

[@303Thatoneguy]

@@GinraiPrime666you really need the staples and some extra deck cards to actually be good. You can just build your strat around that.

[@moe3120]

Attempted new player here, one of the biggest things that put me off the game were the players, some not all and again region based, both local shops of mine just had very sweaty competitive players who didn't wanna take a break from player at lightning speed and when i tried to slow down and read the cards i have to understand them they wouuld visibly get pissed (this was a casual non tourny game) Again keep in mind this is just my case never really tried the game again

[@shomi8791]

Nobody wants to wait opponent play turn 1 unbreakable board for 30 minutes.

[@redheadphones6]

I introduced Yugioh to some friends when Master Duel came out. We had fun casually building weird decks with the massive backlog of cards. It was when they tried playing in ranked that they lost interest. They repeatedly told me how annoying it was getting Ash Blossom'd or seeing their opponent build up a huge board with omni-negates on turn 1. It's easy as someone that's played for years to tell them to just 'get good' or learn to bait that stuff out and have back-up plans, but I wonder if the power creep has just become too much for new players. Sure, there are people that probably started last week that love the current game, there's always exceptions after all, but I'm worried that power creep has just made the game too much for the average person. Of course, casuals with friends will always be fun, but you can say that about any game. IDK, I just know I buy more statues and figures based on Yugioh than actual booster packs at this point.

[@baxterbruce9827]

I would also like to add, that even people casually teaching friends doesn't always work out as well as some people think, and not just because it's a complicated game, I've seen people trying to teach someone new BEING the ladder in this scenario. They were, for whatever reason, incapable of throttling down a little to not beat a newbie that didn't know what they were doing into the ground. Repeatedly. It's not a welcoming environment. Heck, I've seen people say that was a good thing and encourage it... Which is... Honestly, if you CAN'T slow down, that's one thing. But if you're ENCOURAGING people to play so hard a newbie that doesn't know what they're doing can barely play a card, that's just toxic. And I talk about this from experience. It's not fun, it doesn't feel good from either side, and it actively drives people away from the game.

[@DragonBallsolosyourverse]

The pro players are the main playerbase and so new players quit cause they get bodied by the newest and fastest version of the special summon swarm tactic Its not really fun for them to deal with, you guys might see that as a regular tuesday but for a normal guy That's overwhelming.

[@devideby_zero8596]

This is beyond true, even with me being there to guide them. Get them to understand their deck and every combo. I taught one friend who wanted to use Mekk-Knights Another like a classic Weeb. Dragon maids. While Ash is common and they used it too. No joke. I'm watching my friend after doing solo and dueling me in friend duels. Go in, and first game in Rookie. Branded Bestials. He immediately quit. Overall. I'm not saying these cards need to be banned. Frankly I don't know how to fix the issue. I just know. People won't like picking up a game, and then seeing a full bored of negates or just getting cards ripped from hand on turn one.

[@baxterbruce9827]

@@devideby_zero8596 My advice: Teaching should ALWAYS be starting with mid low power mid range decks If you'd describe it as combo, it's probably bad deck to start with If it's running off floodgates, it's probably a bad deck to start with Also, if it's Pendulums, it's probably a bad deck to start with, because Pendulums are the most complicated mechanic Those are my three rules for teaching someone It also helps to find them a deck they like or at least thinks has cool art for them to try Don't force them into a top of the meta good deck, if you're going to push them towards or away from any decks, I would only suggest advising against completely unusable and nonfunctional garbage, like Guardians (Not Gate Guardian, Guardians)

[@LCDigital92]

⁠@@baxterbruce9827Just out of curiosity, what would you suggest for a beginner level dragon(-like) deck for someone who considers more than like 3 summons per turn as board spamming and loses interest?

[@the199dirtrider]

The tactical try decks will never come out in the tcg. Like you said, Konami HATES YOU.

[@johnathanlemus5584]

Konami HATES *THE TCG*. They’ll knee to the OCG, but TCG? LOL, Buy our products Suckers.

[@bryanmerel]

❎️Konami hates you ✅️Konami "of America" hates you.

[@Gatitasecsii]

I hope you're wrong, but I don't believe you are...

[@bonloreto8072]

Maxx C is Banned that's Why

[@Gatitasecsii]

@@bonloreto8072 ooh good point. The OCG can keep them then cause Maxx c being banned is a good thing.

[@MelioUmbraBelmont]

YGO, Castlevania, Metal Gear, Parodius, Silent Hill, ALL Share the same problem and it's called KONAMI

[@soukenmarufwt5224]

Metal Gear Kojima killed himself by trying to turn it into a wannabe Hollywood movie series and not a game. I despise Metal Gear fan boys.

[@leoultimaupgraded9914]

@@soukenmarufwt5224Doesnt mean Konami’s not apart of the problem for a their IPs I despise Konami’s greedy business practices

[@noukan42]

​@@soukenmarufwt5224 Kojima left ages ago and all they did for years was fucking Survive. That's 100% on them.

[@skydragonstar-fr6xf]

The company doesn't know how to treat their products

[@yadirect]

Hey, Dont forget us Suikoden fans

[@Milkydere]

this video actually made me daydream about yugioh for 20 minutes and I've been the happiest I ever was as a yugioh player during these minutes.

[@jovenc4508]

Personally I think every card needs to be reprinted to Hell and back. No piece of cardboard should be more than $0.10.

[@soukenmarufwt5224]

Even if every meta deck cost 10$, that won't stop Yugiboomer and casuals from complaining and refusing to learn anything. This is gas lighting at best. I could care less about the opinions on casuals say. Casuals are the reason I left many communities

[@jovenc4508]

@@soukenmarufwt5224 What the Hell are you even on about? A game should never be pay to win. It has nothing to do with being "casual". Also, learn what gaslighting means before using using a word you don't understand.

[@TheYakubian]

??? Then how will game stores exist? Its probably best Yugioh is just played at Kitchen tables anyways

[@jovenc4508]

@@TheYakubian By selling packs and boxes and holding events. They don't make profit exclusively on singles sales.

[@TheYakubian]

@@jovenc4508 who tf gonna buy a box if the cards are worth 10 cents 🤣

[@Alex-gw6ie]

I play yugioh but last year i wanted to play pokemom learned the game in like 2 days its really easy to introduce people

[@thatman666]

I got shifted into Pokémon a lot more during Link era.

[@yandoeseverything370]

The only problem with Pokémon is that it kinda gets stale and boring when you play standard overtime. Pokémon doesn’t really have much interesting interaction like yugioh does unless you play expanded format which is mostly supported online and not in locals.

[@funz6491]

@@thatman666 what r u're currents thoughts on yu-gi-oh?

[@Carlos.Rivera]

​@@yandoeseverything370try Dragon Ball Fusion. Is back and forth like goat format

[@AoyagiMei]

@@yandoeseverything370 the thing that carries pokemon is definitely prizing, community, and events. tcg itself can get stale quickly so it's not something you want to be playing 24/7 unless your goal is to top every event, but it's still fun enough to pop back into every set release and cook up some new decks. cards being super affordable allows for that.

[@Custarddolphin]

Before I quit I kept 2 decks for my friends in case they wanna play casually and fun Game not fun for me and it starts to drain me mentally and physically

[@samuelllakaj5439]

Fr. Unless you're playing meta, expect to lose. But even then you could always get Runick Stunned. Feels worse the longer you play.

[@Carlos.Rivera]

Feel you. We got a local card shop that only accepts the goat format to be playing. His sales increased dramatically and new people peeked out just to see and some get hooked

[@xgaming6609]

@@Carlos.Rivera Yeah, "Standard" yugioh is a bitch

[@phoenixraven5692]

​@@xgaming6609I play Yu-Gi-Oh Commander. It's more fun

[@aidenquinn19975]

New player here. Why the hell are the structure decks only giving people 1 or 2 copies of cards and not just making a single structure deck with everything you need? $30 doesn’t sound like a lot to old players but by comparison other card games have structure decks that include everything you need for less that $20. There’s missing value

[@lanterns_glow]

So you buy more

[@challengerjakku1943]

Because they could get away with it back when Yugioh was popular and only had Magic the Gathering as it's main competitor. With all of these other card games now coming into the fold with actual value and not ripping off the consumer it becomes even more apparent.

[@kauanjos3199]

It's been a thing in Yu-Gi-Oh for ages even the digital games do this with Duel links and Master duel decks needing to be bought 3 times to work properly. It's only so they can make you buy more

[@ararune3734]

Digimon does it too. Honestly all these Japanese companies are out of touch, but weebs enjoy being milked. I love Digimon card game, but I'll never pay for it. I'll keep playing the simulator made by fans, and if I wanted to get physical cards I'd print proxies. All these TCG collecting games are gambling scam. There's no way around it. Structure decks will never sell you a complete deck, literally every guide will tell you to buy 2-3 copies which is ridiculous. It's intentional.

[@goliathsteinbeisser3547]

I am a disgruntled, former Magic player. My lesson learned: It makes no sense to fall in love with something that won't love you back and will only be used to extract money from you. YGO has a reputation for being especially egregious in this regard, but personally I would not get into any TCG at all anymore. This hobby is a waste of passion.

[@MrCmon113]

Any more? Collectible cards were always about selling people random pieces of cardboard. Basically a casino for children.

[@jt_papertrail]

⁠@@MrCmon113 I love my luxury cardboard rectangles

[@watchm4ker]

@@MrCmon113 In fairness, Magic: The Gathering was supposed to be trading cards for D&D players. Then players went insane and started buying packs by the box, and the game was never the same

[@ArclinusCastoral]

As a 20+ year Magic player, it blows my mind to have chase rares that are core components for meta strats be $150. The worst we usually deal with are $20, MAYBE $30 staples and they certainly don't get milked for cash in two or more subsequent releases before FINALLY getting banned. That's wild, yo.

[@olixx1213]

Well depends on the format obviously byeah

[@ShmarveyXD]

And the game itself is constantly getting more convoluted and confusing from set to set No, seriously, 2017 Yugioh feels like Duel Monsters in terms of complexity compared to now

[@songoku2711]

As someone who loved the Duel Monsters anime and cards, Yu-Gi-Oh has become too complicated and expensive. As much as I'd love to get into it for real, it's become extremely overwhelming for someone like me who has been out of the loop for over 8+ years. Why spend hundreds of dollars to get into the physical TCG when I can jump online with Yugi and Kaiba structure decks in Master Duel for free?

[@lemlem35]

If your local scene has an Edison format tournament, I highly recommend trying to get into that; its April 2010 format and banlist and its extremely fun and easy to start

[@songoku2711]

@@lemlem35 I'm actually a big fighting game guy myself, so I attend some locals for those. There's nothing Yu-Gi-Oh around me at all. A little MTG and that's about it.

[@lemlem35]

@@songoku2711 Thats cool, I'm glad theres stuff around for you!

[@Cyrius203]

You are wrong about one thing though Competitive yugioh has always been expansive and a lot of decks have actually become cheaper and the game is more diverse imo It's still very complicated and Idek how I got into it

[@OverdueArtist]

@@songoku2711I’m a huge fgc fan as well, and I just found out about the “Vanquish Soul” archetype which is a love letter to the genre (especially 3v3 tag games) Maybe you can look into that to try jumping back in

[@Protect_all_ljf3forms]

It power levels new people out “Git good” turns into “get gone” Theres a massive problem with the game itself as we are at the point its a complicated way to play coin flip

[@firestalker11]

You summarized literally everything perfectly in as few words as needed!

[@vala32]

You can spend $900 to get mad playing a complicated coin flip versus someone who hasn't washed in a month, or you can do literally anything else.

[@shocker1209081]

​@@vala32Mass Effect Legendary edition was on sale for $6 this summer. Is it perfect? No. Is sniping geth troopers more fun than watching someone else play weeb solitaire? Yes.

[@prycenewberg3976]

"Why Can't Yugioh Get New Players?" Because the reality of the game has almost no relation with people's perception, or conceptualization of the game. Many people probably still think of the game as a slow plodding thing where two players summon monsters of increasing power, occasionally playing a spell or trap, and grinding the opponent down. Then they play a modern game and lose on turn 0.

[@adewilyan8030]

Somehow this reminds me of the kid that jesse destroyed lol 😂 Full of excitement in his eyes before reality struck him.

[@azzaelulbrinter]

The idea of retro format decks is awesome, but you know what would be even better? Boxes such as the speed duel ones, that contain many half decks of different archtypes ready to play with friends.

[@danha3107]

KONAMI FFS PLEASE SUPPORT LEGACY FORMATS PROPERLY I unironically use Edison Blackwings and bulk bin Hasselberry Dinos to teach my friends yugioh and these older formats or even some bulk bin cards are amazing low power tools for teaching modern ygo

[@justsomedude2646]

Komoney needs to listen to it's player base, the number of people giving them free advice on how to fix the game is alarming at this point.

[@pamoon_]

A PS5 costs like $500 A meta deck costs the same or more The meta deck is going to get hit especially if it is tier zero providing less enjoyment Meanwhile the PS5 can last several years without obsoletion Maybe that's why people don't get into Yugioh as much

[@TheAnthonyC4]

But the PS5 has no games…

[@samuelllakaj5439]

​@@TheAnthonyC4 It's investment. If you bought Tear for full price before they got hit hoping to win a tournament or two, expect to never play them again in the TCG, unless you're on copium like me and run them with Skull Servant. It's no longer good enough. The PS5, it does have free games (Genshin duh), but also the amount of games you can choose from will only grow. Think of how much a PS3 goes for nowadays, compared to a deck from the same year. It only gets better with age, unlike yugioh. And if you're thinking you'll play Tear once it's unbanned? Dragon Rulers are still at 1.

[@EinSilverRose]

@@samuelllakaj5439 You're missing the point in that the PS5 literally has no games and even Sony wants to move past it even though it's their fault the console failed.

[@DickCheneyXX]

A dual land costs nearly $500 and MTG is doing fine. The PS5 was obsolete the day it came out.

[@jinsu0504]

@@EinSilverRose actually, s:p little knight QCR IS the price of PS5 alone. lol. wait 3-4 months and it will hit rock bottom to less than 100....so it suks for people who bought the card for 700+. i'm waiting but i was also victim to these fluctuations in price...really really discourages players from even bothering buying cards...bad bad bad investment and playing with antisocial nerds is also tormenting. I just buy to collect and appease myself. I dont' play anymore, I do not buy sealed products, and I do not attend any events

[@komivalentine3067]

Old cards: "Draw 2 Cards" (banned) New Cards: "your opponent can't do shit, you can Special summon 100 Monsters from your extra Deck, your opponent can't activate any effects, can not be the target of effects, can not get destroyed by card effects, instead of sending this Card to the graveyard, remove 3 Cards from your graveyard and return this shit to the field. Your opponent Skips their next Draw Phase. Your opponent can not activate Magic or Trap Cards unless they Control 3 Tuner Monsters with combined Level of 6 or higher. If this card was special summoned, destroy it at the end of your opponents next draw phase, your opponent looses the game unless they remove three Cards from their graveyard. You can search your deck for any copies of x and add them to your hand"

[@watchm4ker]

You forgot, "Can only be Special-Link-Synchro-Pendulum-Summoned. Use these effects only once per turn."

[@digiing1992]

Konami should really just release Archetype Structure Decks of archetypes which are around for a decade at minimum, and when I say archetypes I mean EVERY SINGLE ONE

[@frowacki]

So I was a long time mtg player who turned to YGO to try something new a few months ago. After a few months of playing YGO, from a new player’s perspective there’s a few things that make it incredibly offputting for new players. 1. The wordiness and font on every card. It’s incredibly intimidating to do this for your own cards, but once you understand how your deck works it all makes sense. The issue comes in trying to figure out your opponent. Eventually you just kind of give up and nod your head and say “yup” as they play card after card that you have no idea what it means. 2. The price point. Obvious point. I came in around AGOV right before RA01 came out. I was thinking it was a great time to get into it due to being able to get so many staples for cheap. Then it turned into the season of fire. 3. No mulligans feels bad. I completely understand why you can’t mulligan in YGO. But when you’re used to it from most other TCGs, you go to YGO and you’re just kinda stuck with what you drew. Feels terrible. Going second and drawing no hand traps and watching your opponent FC just feels terrible when you have nothing you can do about it. This might be the biggest thing to me. It feels like there’s certain games where there is 0 you can do; you lost the die roll, you lost the game. 4. The power of the cards feels absurd. I’ve described playing YGO to some of my mtg playing friends as “it’s like playing mtg but the only format anyone plays is legacy. And every deck is a different version of storm.” There’s a lot to like about YGO. YGO is an incredibly fluid card game and when you can get going and see different lines you can take and the different steps you can take to get there it’s incredibly satisfying. I love the way the Extra Deck works in YGO. Having a toolbox available at all times is an attractive reason to play this game. Also, the YGO community has been some of the nicest group of nerds I’ve ever met. Definitely willing to show you the ropes and teach you the game. I’d love to see YGO continue to succeed, the more card games/players we have out at our LGS’ the better it is for us all. But after a few months of actively playing YGO I’ve come to the conclusion that I just don’t like it and that’s ok.

[@randomprotag9329]

the first point is the main one, higher power level has its niche audience, needing to read an essay of card text regardless of how unique the card has no niche that seeks it. yugioh players only don't understand how heavy of an trade off is needed to make essays of card text the better options.

[@leoultimaupgraded9914]

I’ma be real, whatever Wizards of the Coast have done, they seem way better of a company then Konami If Konami wasn’t so money hungry, and gave the TCG players more to work with, and maybe actually release Rush Duels internationally, it would succeed and bring in tons of new players. But let’s be real, Konami’s always gonna be money hungry, and if Yugioh keeps declining, they’ll just drop it entirely in favor of something else. They only care about it because it makes them money, and once it’s sucked dry, they’ll toss it into the trash bin. Only way I can see the game changing for the better, is if the big executives get kicked out and replaced with new ones with fresh new ideas, but otherwise us Yugioh players are screwed.

[@frowacki]

It’s funny, a lot of people are fed up with WotC for being so money hungry. Where as WotC has more prize support, Konami prices their products way more competitively. Mtg just had a preconstructed deck that is around $450. Absolutely absurd. I wish YGO would get better prize support and some sort of way to play tcg online without having to go to DB or something

[@frowacki]

Couple of months after this comment and I’ve completely been priced out of YGO. I sold my whole collection and quit. The meta shifts in this game happen too quickly to stay competitive at any kind of a budget.

[@GeorgeMonet]

There is nothing to like about modern yugioh.

[@LakbobYT]

Here's the biggest problems with yugioh: - Rulings: This game can get really confusing, like, there are interactions in this that even I get confused on and I've been playing for years. This is largely due to card text and how konami words certain cards. So, if someone who has years of experience playing yugioh can still get confused about certain rulings, it's pretty evident that new players will struggle. - Power creep: Konami really likes introducing cards that break the game and they tend to cost an arm and a leg, be it a new archetype or powerful staple cards. Now, yugioh isn't the only card game with this issue, but it still deters a lot of new players - Prices: These really powerful cards tend to be over most people's budget and causes many players to miss out on certain cards that could help their deck out tremendously. Unfortunately, with the market being as volatile as it is, it's a struggle to get pricey cards even months after release and forces players to wait until the price drops or Konami introduces a new product with reprints of those powerful cards. There are more reasons, but those are the big 3 that are causing people to steer clear from playing yugioh competitively or even casually

[@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773]

The funny thing is... For MTG the cost of decks are 200 to 1000...but that depends on how far back you want to go. Standard being current is always the cheapest. Tho I'll say this you don't need a 500 dollar deck to be competitive in MTG.

[@lanterns_glow]

Kashtira is basically a middle finger to just trying. Then they add Ash, Inferm, Zeus, and Baronne and its like "why bother"

[@edpaolosalting9116]

Commander in MtG is the more flexible format rather than restricted formats.

[@williamdrum9899]

If ____ COMMA you can Special Summon this card (from your hand). If ____ COLON You can Special Summon this card from your hand. The fact that there is a difference between them (i.e. which one Solemn Judgment can negate) is enough to scare away new players IMO. I'll be honest, I can't even remember how I learned the difference.

[@ReigoVassal]

@@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773 how much does it cost to build decent competitive deck to play at least in game store?

[@SilvaProductions34]

Bro you killed it with the retro structure deck designs you should be proud

[@williamdrum9899]

Those are awesome. I'd love to get one of those. Especially if there was a Pegasus themed one with Thousand-Eyes Restrict

[@TerraverseCo]

I'm glad you mentioned the pricing problem. I feel that that is one of the major roadblocks for many people. Also the lack of an anime proper to pull new players in. Remember when Yugi was on all of the boosters? I got into Yugioh thanks to the anime, like so many others. Accessibility with mitigating power creep can also help. I also feel like maybe introducing retrains as a sort of "series" of rereleases of older 2002-2003 sets could also be cool. Like, most cards in Legend of Blue Eyes had no effects. What if you made a Legend of Blue Eyes Remix booster series, and all the old vanillas now had effects? Use nostalgia to older players, by making their favourite cards from 20 years ago viable again. I think that'd be pretty cool. I'd also love to see more games released with cool twists to the concept. Remember Duelist of the Roses? I loved that game! In short: - Maintain an anime for new blood - Regulate prices and rarities and maybe alot more retrains for older cards - Accessibility to older players, make it fun again for them - More video games

[@kaibaman9651]

Just now catching your video, you were spot on with all of my problems with Yugioh for the past DECADE. Your Retro deck concepts got me checking out the game again, in old formats I never got to properly experience, I would actually pay you money to create these pseudo products as orica just cuz they look cool and gave me huge nostalgia dopamine I hadn’t felt in years.

[@spicymemes7458]

I had long-time yugioh friends quit to go play Lorcana. I can't even really talk to them about this game anymore. They are completely uninterested. Konami seems to want young blood coming into the fold, but that seems to be almost a complete improbability now. They simply f'd around for too long and found out too late to try to fix it.

[@619ver1]

Honestly no? Konami does not care in the least about getting new players. They want to milk to community they have and are slowly realizing that the buying community rapidly shrinks...

[@RavenCloak13]

No they didn't. They did exactly what they wanted. Rush Duels a thing they market now properly to kids. They don't care about not Japanese market because boomers still control the company and didn't know how to pivot. The fuckers tried to end their Yugioh division for more pachinko only for Corona to happen. Unironically Corona saved a lot of hobby stuff. Just look at how they never made any of the actual merch they could easily do based on stuff that exist from this game. How the fuck don't they have Purrley plushies? Secondary merch that average person might buy like videogames, figures, plushies, accessories and so on. You literally have infinite merch opportunity for this damn series and they don't do it. They only started to do stuff for non-anime characters/cards.

[@leoultimaupgraded9914]

@@RavenCloak13I hope that ONE DAY we finally get Rush Duels then again Konami will have to fit it into their greedy schedule

[@rangeless]

I'd do anything to get that cyber Dragon try deck. Cheap thrusts so close to our fingertips

[@williamdrum9899]

I don't know why they haven't just unified TCG and OCG at this point.

[@Practicalinvestments]

@@williamdrum9899tcg has a higher profit to cost that’s why. They desperately want to keep the same system and milk whales dry, they don’t want new players, just whales. They only want the new players as fodder and so throw a rarity collection bone once in a while to keep them quiet

[@txta786]

Most fun i had in Yu-Gi-Oh was playing forbidden memories, duelist of roses, or the Gameboy games when the duels were simplified

[@ReigoVassal]

The most fun I had is when I tag team with AI playing their stories and winning tournament together, more challenging and fun than playing as the MC or against the MC. YGO Tag force is amazing.

[@loope9421]

@@ReigoVassalthe social aspect made it very immersive, and some duelist were very challenging.

[@kauanjos3199]

Those games are not even Yu-Gi-Oh lol, you had fun playing other card games entirely

[@lenerlink]

I stop playing Yu-GI-OH in 2013 after I joined the military due to most the people around me playing Magic over Yugioh while we were at sea. I slowly fell out of love with it but always held a place in my heart. in 2018 I thought about getting back into the game but so much changed and new mechanics added, as well as people hating the new rulings/mechanics scared me away. Most of them said building many fun unique decks were dead now. Even to this day I would love to get back into the game after seeing them add support to Charmers to make them usable (even if they are bossless), but after looking at MANY MANY videos it doesnt seem like I would have fun trying to play against someone who is seriously trying to win.

[@AKPhilly]

Yeah nah stick to mtg lol

[@N12015]

technically the charmer links are great staples. That's about it. Also, still no Dharc spiritual art.

[@yesiam7481]

Try Hearthstone if you want a casual TCG. I only play meme decks in the Wild format

[@user-df5is8jy6n]

Konami treats you like an addict, so you should treat them like drugs. Dive in at your own risk buddy.

[@leviathan5207]

Most Japanese companies just do not give a flying fuck about making good products for western markets. It took Sony and Atlus literally YEARS before they realized that PC gamers were willing to buy their games, but NOT a console just to play that one game. Another example: Lexus failed horribly in Europe, and everyone knows why. You can get a 3 series with petrol engines and diesel engines anywhere between 150 and 510hp, whilst the Lexus ES can only be had with a 213hp non plug in hybrid... That aint what the European luxury buyer wants. And Konami just follows that trend, by not deaming us worthy enough of their OCG products...

[@valutaatoaofunknownelement197]

I guess Toyota in the US is an exception. I mean, the Camary is a best seller here, and when you advertise your car (plus the Supra) in something as big as NASCAR here, you should be driving great interest to earn those customers.

[@Boyzby]

It makes sense for Sony, since they make consoles and have always ended up being incredibly popular. Xbox hasn't been good IMO since 360, and that ended like 10 years ago, which is why MS put so much into Game Pass, Xbox on PC, and buying studios to even have anything worth playing.

[@wickederebus]

@@Boyzby the console games are developed on PCs. It makes sense for Microsoft, the PC software company, to push for an online service that gives you a catalogue of games, with the option to outright buy them, and to not have to develop a new console every generation.

[@genkeikyou]

sony is no longer a Japanese companies thoigh since they change headquarters to that damn cali

[@wickederebus]

@@genkeikyou though.

[@siftheadsdude]

Definitely a lot to say about why modern day YGO is problematic (at least for some people, myself included). I feel it all stems from uncontrolled power creep, which then has a domino effect…high costs, extreme depth, long turns/short games (short as in small number of turns), focus on negations makes gameplay unfun, constant changing of the meta due to releases and banlists, vast majority of decks/archetypes are unplayable competitively, etc. I loved YGO and play Edison/tengu plant locals and have been having a blast, but I dont think I’ll ever get back into the modern game since dropping out 2 years ago (I tried getting back into it early 2020 after never playing competitively). Solid vid btw!!

[@DragonBallsolosyourverse]

Games these days are long Over 30 40 minutes but its mostly just ladder combo's to setup board not really turn to turn gameplay Games at most got 3 turns.

[@simonpetrikov3992]

@@DragonBallsolosyourverseI’ve seen games go to turns 4-5 still way way faster than a decade ago

[@DragonBallsolosyourverse]

Mostly 1 to 3 turns tho

[@Danlight1911]

My issue with Yugioh is all the archetypes I think have a cool aesthetic or are fun to play aren't viable competitively, the meta is just TOO oppressive where winning against a modern combo deck is basically impossible. You can shout "git gud" all you like but fact of the matter is modern Yugioh is just far too complex and fast paced for casual players. The most fun I had recently was dueling with the Yugi/Kaiba reloaded decks.

[@therobloxmonkey6704]

Yeah that does suck! One pet peeve I have with some of the archetypes and their designs are that they're either trying to be competitive or their artistic design feels "uninspired". Of course this is my opinion.

[@awesumsauce24]

modern combo decks are not strong at all, for the past couple formats yugioh has just been completely dominated by midrange decks

[@DragonBallsolosyourverse]

Modern combo decks are strong That's why their used by meta players.

[@Simply_Taido]

Or you could just find and play a better deck that matches your preferences. Ghoti, for example, has an actually good aesthetic, is fun to play, strong enough for newer players to find success at a locals, and, most importantly, it is very affordable. You just have to do research.

[@Danlight1911]

@Simply_Taido I've browsed through all the "viable" competitive decks and their aesthetic is either lame as fuck or the the deck itself is so complicated I'm no longer having fun. Modern Yugioh just isn't a game for casual players and it's why the game is dying.

[@GreyFox250]

LOL "the fun back and forth". Bro, this isnt 2004 anymore. There is no back and forth in modern Yu-Gi-Oh

[@N12015]

I think he's confusing his HAT experience with current ygo.

[@challengerjakku1943]

To be fair 2011 Yugioh had some decent back and forth. 😂

[@GeeMannn]

the "fun" back and forth is me activating a bunch of effects on your turn as soon as or even before you enter your draw phase,, and then you do the same to me over and over again until one of us out-negates the other's effects.

[@Mcdude02]

I wanted to get into yugioh, so I downloaded one of the online games but the ridiculous amount of card text and mechanics and turn one insta desth combos just made it so overwhelming. Why would i ever bother to get into yugioh when games like hearthstone are so much easier to get into

[@renaldyhaen]

I don't think Yugioh is complicated. It is just unfair and unbalanced. . I think TCG keeps 1-2 dominant decks on purpose. They kill a lot of decks in diverse formats. But they dance avoiding the real problem when the META is monotone (and very expensive). This may be their selling strategy. A dominant deck can create peer pressure for players who don't play the META. Non-META cannot play peacefully because the META is too oppressive. Also, because the majority of players only play with 1-2 of the same decks. This is easier to push them to buy new products, with the ban list. Just make the old META unplayable and offer them the new one. . I don't really like Time Wizard. We have modern "bad" decks and they need a spotlight too. Time Wizard is just old META, the decks in those formats usually already have a lot of spotlight in their era. Also, because it is just an old format, there will be no new cards to make the format fresh. Meanwhile, if we focus on the alternative format with modern low-tier decks. They're up to date, but they are still less oppressive, this will make the learning process easier. Because we can also use new cards, this format will always be fresh.

[@EvilMagnitude]

YGO is super complicated because of the heavy focus on deck searching. It makes the game very difficult to understand and get into, even for people who play other TCGs.

[@renaldyhaen]

​@@EvilMagnitude That's actually what makes it easier. Because you can just memorize the cards you need and search it. If the search is more limited, it will force the player to play with any combination cards they draw. Why you need to learn about multiple different possibilities, when you can start with the same best starter over and over?

[@thanoseid2883]

i agree. plus people have complained about the game dying every time the game gets like this. there's also the fact that casual is an option. you just need to find a good casual to duel at. or just do master duel or duel links.

[@achanmould2904]

100% agree. I think these are some points that many people just don't understand

[@ImTheMexicanKing]

I honestly think the future of yugioh is more games. I feel master duel could easily help bring more players new and old, especially if THEY create a year-long GOAT format mode.

[@Animexdraco]

They need to bring back solo game (with more story content). One of the strengh of Yu-Gi-Oh is the huge amount of archetype and deck concept, we need a suport to play those deck without having to worry about competitive, just for the sack of enjoying the game.

[@Protect_all_ljf3forms]

*permanent goat

[@MRkriegs]

@@Animexdraco yes!

[@ImTheMexicanKing]

@Animexdraco Solo games would be cool, sadly i doubt it but i hope

[@erickkisreal9398]

@@Animexdraco are you thinking of the nintendo DS games? those NPC decks are very close to letting us play fun decks without worrying about being competitive

[@Zetact_]

I think beyond legacy formats if Konami is going to support an alternate format they should have one that uses the modern card pool but that is catered to lower power decks. There are so many new decks that come out and a response is more or less, "Wow, this looks fun and interesting, pity it can't hold a candle to the tiered strategies." Like most TCG exclusive archetypes. Legacy formats are good for the environment, but they have a hard cap on the amount of product they sell and in Konami's perspective they might not even see a cent out of it - if someone ONLY plays Edison they can probably pick up the only deck they'll ever play for cheap from a third party. Going straight from a legacy format to the current game - unless the legacy format is TOSS - is not a conversion you're likely to make. The allure of, "Hey, you play Lightsworn in Edison? Well there's these new Lightsworn cards..." may not make a conversion when the person says, "Yeah but the new Lightsworn deck still gets blown out by Snake-Eyes and Tenpai and stuff." If you could give that player an environment where he can play his favorite deck against other comparable strength decks, with the new cards, then he is more likely to look into getting the new cards - and by doing THAT he might actually get the confidence to convert to Advanced format. I also think that if Tactical Try decks are brought to the TCG they should be available in-stores but also offered as print on demand. Evergreen products that let someone immediately leap into the game are just beneficial. If you miss out on buying a Structure Deck near the time of its release and it happens to be the strategy that most interests you, well, you're kinda out of luck. If something like a Structure Deck or a Tactical Try were something you could easily get whenever, perhaps with a SLIGHT markup, it's a win for you since you can get into the game cheaper, faster, and more convenient and it's a win for Konami since they get the money that otherwise would be going to an outside vendor - you can't even really say it's at the detriment of the game stores, either, since it's the choice between someone going to the store more regularly and willing to buy product and that person just not going.

[@kiracaos]

Exactly my thoughts. We need a format where lower power decks can be played against each other, and use new cards. That's my problem with Edison and Goat, the card pull is only so much, and you can't use the new stuff.

[@Magus12000BC]

Their whole approach to legacy support in modern formats is part of what got me to quit the game after nearly two decades. I played Gravekeeper's for years. They had always been a solid rouge tier archetype that could consistently do well in a local setting and make an occasional splash in a regional. And the last bit of support that they got didn't help them at all. Thrones of Necrovalley would have been fine if it played the way everyone who first laid eyes on it thought that it would. But it you had to choose the effect you got, and it had a hard once per turn clause for absolutely no reason. And if you still want to play GK, you still need three of those cards. But GK has absolutely zero viability now in damn near any modern setting. So why would I waste money trying for the new support? Lightsworn, Six Samurai, Evilswarm, the lost goes on and on. Why are you going to dangle the carrot in front of older players when the carrot is clearly rotten?

[@DelothVyrr]

@@kiracaos For sure. There are so many low-tier decks of the past that later got support, only it came years too late to be relevant. Those decks with the newer support might have made some pretty viable rogue strategies in their time had that support been there from the start.

[@jackweitzman6697]

That might be pretty fun to do a custom banlist for tbh

[@swordofstrife1174]

4:42 I feel like Pokemon has done really well in regards to this with the league battle decks. They come with tons of viable cards, an (almost) competitive deck that can actually do pretty well at a locals, and a little pamphlet on suggestions for what cards to add to it to upgrade it. With the gardevoir ex one, you can basically get one of the best decks in format by adding a few cards to it. And it’s only about 30 dollars give or take. Very affordable. I think more games should do stuff like this.

[@owlflame]

I can’t imagine, even as a consistent yugioh player, why you’d EVER buy a booster pack when you can just buy individual cards on eBay.

[@dubbyplays]

Why should I pay 80€ for a Booster Box to not have any guarantee I'd find the 70€ I'm searching for when I can buy that single through CardMarket and use those 10€ in useful/liked cheap cards?

[@dubbyplays]

It's been years but nowadays more than ever that the new rule is: *Never buy boosters, buy singles* Structure Decks are fine and saves you useless additional shipping costs buuut... Boosters are NOT worth the cost.

[@tracylaurenmarrow4639]

And that’s why ygo cards are so expensive. Pokemon cards are cheap because people pull a lot of them, because generally the cards are pretty neat even if you don’t play. Good quality, great art, they’re just nice to have.

[@owlflame]

@@tracylaurenmarrow4639 if they gave me a good reason to buy packs I would. I buy Pokémon packs and still don’t even know how to play the game

[@Wolveri435]

Yugioh needs something similar to Pokémon Smogon having more formats that allow more decks to shine in different ban list for both speed duels and normal. It will help a lot for encyclopedia series type rule book for those who want to enter more competitive games. The book can explain rulings why some combos don't work.

[@swahagod8369]

A few problems with current yugioh The tcg has less value in packs than the ocg and it’s just more expensive in the tcg. You’re definitely dropping a few hundred to make a competitive deck. It’s just way too expensive to get into as a hobby. Unlike all other card games yugioh does not have a casual scene. The duel is usually over in the first 4 turns Everyone has the same extra deck and boss monsters. There is no variety in the game. The game is just way too complicated for older players from slower formats.

[@LightshaverConstellation]

No casual scene is a huge problem among my friends because most of them dont lay competitively but are competent and play decks that can be strong. The issue is that my casual stuff tends to be a lot worse because old or too good because it got new support. And feel like encouraged to beat their face in so they can't opresse me when playing modern. So I often feel like I only have fun playing competitive in modern yugioh and usually not with friends.

[@Practitioner_of_Diogenes]

Hi. Player that stopped in '08. Came back in 2021 and I'm not confused at all. So... uh... that last sentence isn't exactly true.

[@kilith]

​@@Practitioner_of_Diogenessame here, I completely and fully understand what the arrows on the blue cards mean. Me and my trusty summoned skull are doing great!

[@Papiness]

Instead of ramping up new archetypes they should just add more support on existing archetypes to matchup to the format to slow down power creep flatten the curve so players can keep their decks for awhile

[@lennon4116]

Yeah they need to have a series for a while where they go back in time or something

[@lennon4116]

Or maybe like a mini Yugioh, smaller characters, big heads lol

[@kemix1006]

"Either konami is stupid, or they actively hate you." It's the latter. The west has ALWAYS, AAAAAALLLLLWAYS been treated like the red headed step child by daddy konami outside of the TCG Premier/TCG Exclusives. And among the other issues and them refusing to ban cards that just came out that are creating T0 formats and second-hand cards for triple digits, it's just us in an abusive relationship with Konami these days and us coming back to them like a battered GF/BF/Spouce. To say nothing about them "testing the waters" with Rush Duel in Duel Links and dangling a POSSIBILITY of them printing rush in english, it's just one of those things...where we're in a lose-lose relationship with Konami.

[@leoultimaupgraded9914]

Plus, you just know if the TCG’s sales drop even lower, Konami will drop it entirely. As soon as they stop gaining money from it, they won’t care about it anymore. I don’t think Yugioh in general will ever get better to be honest, not unless the big execs get replaced, and that probably won’t happen either. We’re screwed either way.

[@Practicalinvestments]

@@leoultimaupgraded9914this is why I’ve decided to just keep 4 roughly equal power decks that I like (Dark magician, gate guardian, utopia and ice barrier) and just decided to only collect and play those decks with friends not attend any events/locals etc, not gonna spend thousands and not gonna bash my head into a meta wall.

[@asdergold1]

Actually BlackRock owns 4% of Konami.

[@TheGloriousLobsterEmperor]

Japanese companies only give a shit about Japanese customers. Say what you will about boogymen like Tencent, but they treat every nationality equally. Frankly, it's a fundamental problem with Japanese culture, not just Konami.

[@Shamitako]

My wife and I actually got into modern Yu-Gi-Oh because of the two player starter pack thing. We had been trying to play with her old collection, but she had very little in the way of complete decks and I found the older game rather grueling. The starter pack really opened things up for us just by having a couple slightly faster cards around and because of it I ended up picking up Master Duel, where I discovered that the modern game with actual decks is way more interesting to me than the slow march of trap cards I'd been introduced to.

[@Dogma7]

Ocg sealed product makes Tcg feel like a scam

[@masterflamewing234]

Yet y’all still buy it like dummies

[@N12015]

Because they are?

[@uteriel282]

thats because konami uses the ocg to see which cards are good then up their rarity for the tcg since idiots will buy anything. case in point dark armed dragon was a rare in the ocg costing less than 5$ then bumped up to secret rare for the tcg with a price of over 200$. konami knows exactly which cards people want the most and make sure to print as few as possible of those to force tcg players to buy more products for playsets.

[@MrCmon113]

All trading card games are scams compared to other competitive games or consumer products.

[@Cstan55157]

I think adding code cards for master duel in packs could be a good way to help players transition from duel to paper and vice versa. I want to switch to paper but I like having an online space to test things and it takes forever to get a deck online. If I could have 3 traptrix or dark world structure decks online it would make the transition way easier.

[@MonkeyFightTCG]

That's a good idea to transition really life products to master duel. They're already doing it a bit with the tactical try decks. Unfortunately they're just an ocg exclusive

[@nael_luna]

Yugioh is killing itself at this point

[@FlintG]

Yup its like a cash cow that has been milked dry and konami is just beating it with a stick now.

[@KecskeTabornok]

good

[@demiliomason1565]

Great analysis video. I think there are a lot of interesting angles you took. I personally think some core rules and game design need to change for yugioh to get better. But I easily could be biased.

[@darkwolf9637]

Another problem is that yugioh doesn't really have alternative format support so if you want to play your first game of yugioh and you don't already have friends who play the game, congratulations you're getting thrown straight into the deep end of the meta have fun!

[@kennydarmawan13]

You truly spoke the truths there. The issue here is complacency. Konami is so used to Yu-Gi-Oh! doing fine abroad that they see no reason to improve. Especially considering MtG's baffling choices, Yu-Gi-Oh!'s mindset is to just do what they did, but obviously better. Rarity Collection vs. Double Masters 2022, for example. Meanwhile, Pokemon TCG fans are eating better with a company who loves fun. I can safely say that, if MtG decides to reprint cards for (reasonably) cheap (like Doubling Season or Food Chain), abolish the reserved list, and start to do what the fans want (like not making cards exclusively for Universes Beyond and do better products than Secret Lairs or especially the 30th anniversary edition), then Yu-Gi-Oh! would be in serious trouble now in its big three spot.

[@digitalstatictv]

Hey, I switched from Yugi to Magic many years ago (outside of Master Duel) because as an Altergeist player, I got tired of having to call a judge every time I bounced Manifestation with Silquitous. A friend of mine came back by because he wanted us to play again. So I picked up 3 Fire King structures, got some budget stuff to make it playable, and went to locals for the first time. My first match was against Ghoti Runick, where he had 3 Ghoti monsters trigger during my Standby Phase and I had 3 Fire Kings trigger at the same time, so we had 6 effects go off at once, and he was explaining I can activate one as Chain Link 1 and he gets all his effects, then mine may trigger in another chain, and he asked how I was such a noob that I couldn't understand how chain links work. Why did his effects all stack on the same chain and mine didn't? Don't answer, I don't care, because Outlaws of Thunder Junction drafts are a blast to play and Standard's gonna be so much fun after rotation. I just got my stuff up and left and never went back. It's a game that cannot be played in paper, period.

[@Lusk1993]

Build a cube, peak way to draft mtg

[@omegaelement]

I am curious as to which cards were used in that scenario now, as all your cards effects should stack on the chain first on your turn if they are trigger effects.

[@MonkeyFightTCG]

to be fair altergiests just have crazy rulings.

[@Xfighter000]

I played irl before taking a massive break and imo in the west or atleast in america there is a big issue with rule sharks and cheats trying get out of confusing people with rulings. I had to call a judge on someone because they were yelling at me that I couldnt bounce their monster with a non targeting destruction eff when their monster only had targeting protection and another guy call a judge on me for using double sleeves (they're legal to use) and then trying to cheat out on activating the multiple things in chain that werent triggers without letting me respond with effects. This happened in the same locals in the exact same day within 2 hours span of time; decided to stick to masterduel until I study overseas in Japan.

[@firestalker11]

I totally agree with this. I've somewhat learned Yu-Gi-Oh through duel links and master duel and have played casually with a friend in paper before but I would absolutely never play at locals or anything ever. The rules without automation are too complicated for me and I hear so many horror stories about new players getting sharked and bodied out of paper play for their first experience, I might as well just go play magic with my friends instead.

[@juliansoria7733]

At least on the West side... It's less on the game becoming meta and more on Konami being deepshit with their customers, their lack of dedication and attention to both the game and playerbase, the bad quality of the cardboards, a lack of interest to communicate with the people, allowing shit like cheating to the point of deleting comment ON A LIVE STREAM, etc. Konami of America is a joke, and the fact that Kevin and Julia (among other like Jerome) are still getting away because most of the playerbase are big consumers, it irks me. Though lately I learned that things may not be going well for once to them, I mean, apparently they are starting to rely on Yugitubers more among others. So yeah. I hope KoA gets ruined in one way or another and they realize that they need to change the people that are sitting in the high chairs. As for OCG, I don't play there, so I can't comment too much, I can only say that they cards are not censored and the rarities are more fairly distributed. The game, they still have Maxx C which is the kind of card that would make people either love it or hate it, among other.

[@dudono1744]

Maxx C is likely getting banned to sell Purulia. Purulia is basically Maxx C but with the common complaints fixed.

[@arilenn3293]

OCG player here so I can comment on it for you. Everything about it is better than TCG apart from a few weird tournament rules around how wins are determined when time is called, Maxx C being legal (it warps it to an astronomical degree), and Konami being too afraid of risk with the banlist.

[@erickkisreal9398]

use their last names too so people fully know who you're referring to

[@fkjfkrmrk]

Finally some one who understands that the game internationally is managed by konami of america has nothing to do with japn, yugioh players dont even know who they're buying from lmao.

[@Noper12KSKx]

The worst part about the price stuff is that it isnt even just your first cards. Some staples may have staying power, but many expensive cards become obsolete over time so that you have to buy this NEW expensive power-creeping staple. I joined yugioh over 3 times, and all 3 times had me getting the hang of using my deck just for 50% of it becoming obsolete (sometimes the whole deck) as soon as the next set hits. "Oh but then you can sell your old cards" yes but due to power-creep making some cards cheaper, even IF you manage to sell your old deck to keep up, you end up in a net negative. And as a shy person it's even worse since I'm just not comfortable in entering the card market. Not to say other card games DON'T have this, but this rotation and constant need to buy new cards only exacarbates the high prices and high barrier of entry. As I said, I managed to win over the barrier of entry, complexity, and high prices 3 times, but gave up every single time because of cards just becoming obsolete for the sake of necessity to buy the next omega-expensive, meta-warping card.

[@vipersniperpiper6093]

Personally,people should just not support Konami at all,even if they do good like you said at the end. They have done terrible and rancid shit over the years and need a damn reality check for it. They don’t actively care nor are they interested in giving the tcg community respect and why would they? They mostly seem to be for the way Konami is treating them,not complaining about it as much as they should. The only thing they need to actually get to more people is to make their shit cheap,that’s it. They wouldn’t need to focus on making competitive focused decks. Honestly, I only say that because I hate the competitive side of the game and the community. But like I said,they won’t care nor they ever will, aslong as most of the community are being like braindead sheep and do nothing with how the game is right now.

[@pepejz]

Got into Yu-Gi-Oh when my friend bought me the spirit charmer deck. It was fun at first in our group but when we got more into it and used more meta staples, the fun just died. Went to digimon and mtg after a few years.

[@RavenCloak13]

Never touching Magic. That shits pure cancer on your wallet. No, you won't convince me that a game that destroys all your cards to be useable at a tournament is good or consumer friendly. Especially since they have been growing desperate.

[@pepejz]

@@RavenCloak13 tbf we only really ever play commander, and with usually 3-4 players so it just becomes a chaotic shit storm of "random bullshit go!" Though I get it, plus there are a bunch of other card games out there to try so I'd say go check some out if Yu-Gi-Oh is burning you out

[@James_D.]

Back then special summons used to be special.

[@WavemasterAshi]

"Did you just summon a bunch of monsters in one turn?" "Yeah, so?" "That's against the rules, isn't it?" "Oh you sweet summer child."

[@agentdon1760]

​@@WavemasterAshioh and also "Screw the rules I have an meta deck!"

[@soukenmarufwt5224]

OCG 1999 FTK decks say hello. Literally shows none of you know what you're talking about

[@killthemwithfirelol]

​@@soukenmarufwt5224🤓 🤡🤓🤡🤓

[@CErra310]

@@soukenmarufwt5224 people are nostalgic for playground yugioh with their own made-up ruleset and shitty bootleg cards. you literally cannot have a conversation with someone like this

[@insidious6068]

Honestly it's just better being an OCG player. Prices for cards are far cheaper and F/L list is perfect and has timely updates. In the TCG, Konami is just a money hungry company and their F/L list is just cards that they have chosen when they get drunk and they only have a F/L change whenever they feel like it. After switching to OCG and a player in Japan, I can say that my experience playing Yugioh here is infinitely better compared to playing in the US.

[@spicymemes7458]

I'm in Master Duel now because it seems to follow more of the OCG philosophy than TCG.

[@leoultimaupgraded9914]

@@spicymemes7458I see, and even that seems somewhat expensive at-least you can many copies of a certain broken card or deck whenever

[@thanoseid2883]

or just play casual. if you find a good casual they are really good because you'll be against some creative stuff. plus any player that tries to meta is frowned on or kicked out so bonus.

[@insidious6068]

@thanoseid2883 I am talking about in a competitive sense. Any game can be fun and the experience for playing said game would be pleasant if you would take it at a casual level.

[@trevor4533]

Man, the price disparity between the OCG and TCG is wild...

[@telepathicdragon]

This is a pretty good video. I like how you explain how product bridging is extremely important for onboarding people.

[@Metalseadraking]

My preferred way of getting new players probably isn't the best one, but I would love to see a new Yugioh rpg Kinda like the World Championship Series. You put players in a rpg like world where they slowly upgrade their deck to beat stronger opponents, encased in a story that motivates them to continue and improve at the game, but without the competitive pressure of pvp. With extremely strong and Meta Deck using optional or postgame bosses. I think there might be a lot of new players being able to enjoy such a single player game and it would also tackle a new market for Konami in terms of Yugioh, which are single player videogames.

[@erickkisreal9398]

you're thinking the nintendo DS games right? I miss those

[@slaytheminion]

There are in my opinion 4 ways of getting new players into the game. Games like you said where you can learn the game on your pace against computer in a story mode Animes to hook up new people Cheaper options to play the card game on locals. promote old formats to get the people back into the game

[@Ornthemycelianth]

so fucking cringe

[@ChazBlanks]

This video makes way too sense for Konami to execute correctly

[@ChazBlanks]

*much sense*

[@unskillfullymasterful]

I tried master duel but my opponent took like 5 minutes for a turn so i just surrendered and uninstalled

[@edl4767]

Yea and they gaslight us saying the game is faster now or some shit.

[@temper1337]

play either edison format (2010) or goat format (2005) on dueling book, way more fun and easy. If you want to play automated then devpro has quite a few goat players, but dueling book is more active. I had more fun playing both of these in a single day than an entire week of modern yugioh.

[@alphashina]

This is the biggest problem. It's not a game when you can;t do anything but watch another player play

[@abrahammesrajecorrea2349]

​@@edl4767or the good ol' "draw the out, bro", or "skill issue in your deck, git gud". Then you actually do that and you add something like Maxx C to give you a chance to draw the out while your opponent thinks it's in Omeggle... and then everyone loses their heads because "roachies bad, you don't know how to play the game".

[@lanterns_glow]

You would have lost anyway. Someone who takes that long means theyre about to stop anything you do.

[@ChaoticSteps-x2d]

Because the gameplay is trash. Its players are delusional. Turn 1 unbreakable boards.. game is cooked. Move on lol

[@yesiam7481]

This pretty much. My IRL friend plays Yu Gi Oh, and he knows the game is/has been cooked but can't quit anyway

[@DanishTroll87]

I tried starting yugioh a few weeks ago. Then i saw i had to spend around 500$ USD for a deck to be meta level. Add to this all the staple cards that you also have to get. Just for your 500$ deck to become irrelevant after a few sets. Instead i just bought a master duel account online for 20$ that had 8 decks, including a snake eye deck. Waste more simple, less of a waste of time and tons of money saved.

[@Rabbitlord108]

Here's an idea I'd like to see you talk about. Your ideas for companies that could be given the Yugioh license. And the potential pros & cons of each idea.

[@zariygo]

So, vanguard has some product that costs around 80€ and comes with a precon deck that you can easily bring to a tournament without any changes and do well. This seems like a path konami is taking in the OCG. The cyber dragon, eldlich and live twin tryout decks are amazing for new players, providing staples (all comes with 2 maxx c, 2 ash, 1 crossout and 2 called by) and a cohesive strategy. I wish konami will bring them to the tcg too

[@defectivesickle5643]

Do not bring up Vanguard as an example of how to manage a card game well

[@zariygo]

@@defectivesickle5643 oh, no. Bushiroad is a way worse company than konami. They just have a better product for new players.

[@lucamibel]

And then they release starter decks with vanilla cards for $20 but you have to buy it because there's only way to get the counter for the new mechanic of the format....

[@invertbrid]

Only 1 try deck has crossout, but yea u got the idea. Each of em got at least 1 imperm too, some got 2.

[@SupremeKingToshiro]

Im going to be real. Don't play yugioh, and if you do, quit. Save yourself a big headache and your wallet.

[@henrycentury2767]

Is magic the gathering worth it?

[@SupremeKingToshiro]

@@henrycentury2767 idk I never played magic

[@edpaolosalting9116]

@henrycentury2767 Depends. If competitive, then no because MTG also suffers from powercreep on restricted formats. But as a hobby, yes. Go for commander if you want casual play, at least you can have a flexible budget on what you want to put in your decks.

[@aaronfromlv1552]

Yes

[@challengerjakku1943]

Or if you do play Yugioh; play the older formats you like back when the game was interactable. Whenever my friends want to try Yugioh I introduce them to Goat and Edison, the modern game is just too far gone at this point.

[@DabCityyy]

You single handedly might have brought me back to yugioh. My gravekeeper deck from 2011 seems still viable in edison. I just need a few new hitters

[@DanteIsSarathiel]

love yugioh card designs and their size but as everyone else is saying, the barrier to entry is the highest of any game i’ve tried before. my girlfriend (such a good sport) sat with me and did the two player starter set all the way through and we both left confused and fatigued from so much reading and back and forth. we both enjoyed the earlier parts of the tutorial much more. at this point, i think the best on-boarding would be (like you and others have said) much more support for alternative formats, like Edison, that have relatively less going on. from there, interested players can jump into the normal game, and everyone else can branch out. normal game has way too much going on. went to 3 locals and got washed 99% of the time, hand trapped instantly and couldn’t do anything. not very welcoming by design

[@digitalstatictv]

You brought up the massive Deck Build Pack issue, let me just point out that one of my favorite pet decks came from the infamously terrible Ancient Guardians set, Ogdoadic. I wanted to pick up the deck and run 1 (just 1) ultra rare, a copy of Ogdoabyss. When the set came out, I obviously bought singles online instead of try to build the deck the natural way, which is awful for so many reasons. There's 3 ultra rares in a box, and I wasn't even guaranteed to pull all the supers I wanted to run, and it's cheaper to buy online. Why would I bother buying the box? I don't care about collectors rares, let me have the cards I need. It's awful for Konami because the box of Ancient Guardians I'd love to pick up is still sitting on store shelves. It's HORRIBLE for the LGS because, obviously, the box is still sitting there instead of having me pick it up. It's horrible for the vendor selling on TCGPlayer, because he's selling me an Ogdoabyss - one of the 3 ultras in that box - for $5, and shipping costs more than the rest of the deck even on release. It's even not good for me as a player, because it feels like half the experience of a card game is missing when we're playing the TCGPlayer minigame instead of opening packs which is what got us into Yugioh to begin with. It's not good for you reading this, because chances are you're usually doing the same thing because sealed product isn't worth it. It would be so fascinating to see what it's like if Konami's business practices didn't actively make us not want to buy their products. It's honestly insane.

[@ecthelionv2]

I go to Japan fairly frequently. And I live in SEA. And their market is swamped with a lot of card games. Compared to ours where most stores keep up some card games usually keeping at least one of two: MTG or Pokemon, and the rest rotating between YGO, One Piece, etc. But in Japan. I noticed it’s not just the big three I know like Magic, Pokemon, and YUGIOH, but also one piece, dragonball, etc. etc. I see card games that fill up shelves up to shelves of different cards. AND many more card games I never heard of. In Japan, their home turf has a lot more competition. For Konami. They want to keep that japanese audience. But overseas, they can dictate it because there isn’t as much competition until more recently if I see what’s happening in the US landscape. But they still know they can exploit it because overseas still has less competition compared to Japan and if they are willing to buy boxes if the likes of some of the big Yugitubers make for content.

[@namenlosNamenlos]

Yup! That's do makes logical sense.

[@otterfire4712]

It's not so much that Konami hates us, but rather TCG Konami hates us. OCG Konami clearly cares about their player base by retaining solid pack structures and presenting solid precons to keep the cost of the game fairly low for OCG. Meanwhile TCG core sets are abysmal, over printing commons, players don't seem to understand that just because TCG boxes contain more cards, doesn't mean the packs are worth opening. The only issue OP has at this point (from what I've seen) is the lack of reprints for pivotal cards. Older set cards that have gained traction in usage in the meta have skyrocketed in price due to demand, locking out some decks. Fortunately, there are still some decks that can be built for a reasonable price like The Three Brothers leaders, predominantly using more recent staples and cards over older staples.

[@erickkisreal9398]

but ocg has say over how the tcg operates. so how come ocg isn't at least trying to get tcg to change?

[@otterfire4712]

@@erickkisreal9398 I'd suppose that TCG still sees enough sales for OCG to accept the state that the market is in. Shops are still paying well for product and the community is still active, so from OCG's limited view, the TCG player base is okay with their TCG boxes.

[@RegalZephyr]

I used to be a yugioh player pre-covid, and I mostly hung on to the game out of appreciation of art. I was a college student, so I couldn't build tier one or zero decks, and the only place near me that did open play was filled with a bunch of people who were net decking tier one and zero decks. There were other players who likewise tried to start the game in a more-than-structure-deck way, but I've only ever run into each of them once or twice, because they got pushed out by the competitive players whose decks were so powerful that there wasn't a point in even playing for newer players. This also seemed to foster an elitist attitude out of the enfranchised players, and I received several rounds of explosive abuse when I did manage to pull a win by turn two-ing Chaos Ancient Gear Giant and sweeping their field. Post covid, that store closed so I started going to a new store closer to my new home that didn't do Yugioh as a rule, so I switched over to Magic. Prior to that point, I had been afraid of Magic as a game, beccause I was always told about standard rotating out their cards and the high power level and locked-in nature of magic tournaments. But that all changed when the store owner introduced me to Commander, a format made to be the casual grounds for play, a 100 card singleton format where your deck is heralded by one specific creature who is always available for play from the start of the game, where people are interested in making zany builds that change how you play. Where the standard is four player game, including extra layers of strategy and disincentivizing kicking players who are already down. Where games were highly randomized by the nature of having 100 cards to randomly use throughout the game. Where the boxed decks you could buy could be immediately relevant at a table with players who have been playing for years with much more expensive decks. I was immediately hooked. While I'm not interested in going back to Yugioh (because the amount of times my cards have been called racial slurs by white people has decreased dramatically in Magic), I do think that Konami embracing other formats with blunted power scaling or multiplayer formats with higher game lengths could bring a change that could help Yugioh survive. But it might be too late to pull out of the death spiral that Konami designed their game into.

[@Sebastian-wn9rs]

Unfortunately, the problem about Yugioh is that it has already reached the "end game" in Japan, the only market Konami truly cares about. The OCG is so popular in Japan, people literally pre-order every product without even knowing what the decks or expansions contain. There is so much demand, they can even afford to make most of their events have a lottery system TO BUY the tickets and even, as recent controversy showed, change their own rules of the Japanese National Championship so ONLY japanese are allowed, as different from even the last year. The OCG is second only to Pokemon, which outsells it by 1 digit difference. Thus, OCG has no real option to compete with Pokemon and, as of now, sits as the 2nd biggest card game of Japan. Since this position is unlikely to change, Konami Japan has little if any incentive to change the game or their strategies. The Vrains era was the perfect example of an experiment that was poorly received by the Japanese market. Thus, the OCG, and consequently the TCG, will continue to maintain course until the ships collapse or years bring change in the mentality of the leadership in Konami. Take an example Master Duel and how Konami doesnt care about adding a TCG banlist. That game has the Japanese market first, and the rest of the world as an "addon". They do not care about the TCG side.

[@user-xv8lm8lt8j]

As someone who loved Duel Monsters and tried to jump back in several times over the past 20 years, Yugioh is by far the worst for beginners. You tell experienced players you're on a budget and that knocks you down to a handful of decks. Locking you in Many of these decks are heavily flawed. Then they point out its tier zero format, and the best deck is $400 +. It's not a good selling point to a new player skeptical of diving in that their choices are extremely limited and you need to pay to win . Games like Pokémon have reprinted cards into the ground and make it easy for one to pick up 2-3 competitive decks for the cost of one Yugioh Budget deck. It's a shame, but I stick to Master Duel when I want my Yugioh fix

[@619ver1]

Well i think the main issue when it comes to budget decks is that a) They STILL need certain high prized cards to be viable and b) Are very rarely tier 1 or above. Currently Tenpei is the exception with a tier one deck core going for like 50 bucks but in general, the more expensive stuff tends to be better.

[@yourMoonstone]

"people agree that vanguard is bad and determined by luck" this is unreal to me. i think this is some yugioh brainworm where they convince themselves that "drawing the out" is skillful in some way. just because vanguard has triggers (output randomness) other game players think that it's completely pointless, when yugioh has the *harshest* input randomness I've ever seen. when games end by turn 3 and your opponent can just have every answer on their first turn or open the one card combo? there's no mulligans in yugioh, because there can't be, but every single game is determined by the *opening hand*!! it's incredibly punishing, whereas vanguard is more lax and friendly. i think that type of design space is crucial to fostering a community. yugioh's game design creates its playerbase. the reason they're so toxic is directly correlated to how that game functions. you won't see people freaking out about vanguard because it wears randomness on its sleeve and people know what they signed up for. but for some reason yugioh players (and mtg) never got that memo that yeah, the game is basically always random. sure the top players will win over multiple games, but that requires people to keep playing multiple games. if new players hop into the only place they can play online or in a local environment and get blasted by handtraps/disruption/unbreakable boards, you really think they're gonna keep playing? goat and edison are definitely still determined by opening hands but the people that really stuck with yugioh afterwards have the most sunk-cost fallacy mindsets ive ever seen. there's so many games where the correct play is apparent and determinative. joshua schmidt's latest video on the state of the game goes into this well with the two players at the snake eye mirror just telegraphing the best play because one of them drew the one card combo and the other didn't. who's gonna wanna keep playing that that isn't already invested? im sure there's anecdotal evidence of people going "well i got my friend into the game and they love it" and like cool! im happy for yall! but i think just about any game is more fun with friends. yugioh is up against the wall when it comes to what its design allows and encourages. designs will continue to get more compressed, cards will keep doing more. they only have a competitive market to sell to, so they have to keep upping the stakes. rush duel kiiiinda fixes most of these problems because the opening hand isn't so game-determinative, but that's also got its own problems in a way. i think they're afraid to release it worldwide becausd it will eat into the tcg's market share, whereas in japan the culture of card games is so different. it's a small ass country where commuting is the standard. every town has a card shop within like 15 minutes. you're not gonna get that internationally, so they turn to online, and those environments are best of 1 and incredibly punishing. i dont really know how yugioh can get itself out of this but it's the only game where i see so many people complain about its obvious problems but still give their money to a company that doesn't care about them at all. konami is one of the worst companies in the industry and they will never change this approach. if they do then hey, im happy for everyone and we all win but man. it's so discouraging and unbelievable to hesr yugioh players talk about the game like the company is the only thing holding it back. the design itself is beyond repair. going back to old formats is only gonna work for so long. i guess they could do a goat / edison "expanded" release and print new cards with old designs but how long will that last until that ends up back where we started? i love your videos dude and this isn't aimed at you in any way. i think as a disenfranchised former player who's now making their own game because no card game is making me happy playing it, there's answers to these problems but none of them are "pray the shitty company fixes it." i wish yugioh was more friendly but it's like the game itself prevents that. it's like the marvel or hokuto no ken of card games. you made 1 mistake and now i get to play the game and you dont. or maybe you didnt even make a mistake, maybe just the round starting and youre missing your jab button. thanks for playing. it's no wonder the game can't pick up new players. all these people that fell off absolutely have valid concerns and only the most hopped up players fail to see it. i get it if your friend group is all playing yugioh. but maybe yall could play something else?? or a custom format? anything at all. any game is better with friends. and man if theyre not gonna hang out with you if youre not playing the game then maybe they arent your friends in the first place. sorry for ranting this is stuff that's always on my mind. appreciate all your videos and i hope everyone can have a fun time with whatever they enjoy regardless. im just salty c:

[@morrisdarling115]

Hi Kirran! I've been following your TCG development and love your insight. However the updates on your game have been scant as of late maybe I'm not looking in the right places but I would love to see the state of The Card Game ™.

[@SageTigerStar]

Salty or not, this was a good read. Vanguard is my main game and I still enjoy it to this day, even though it's had its ups and...honestly pretty harsh downs. I feel like if Bushiroad would stop trying to push out so many other random games and just focused on Weiss, Vanguard, and Buddyfight (to a point), they wouldn't have kinda driven themselves into a ditch with the fanbases. I'm currently learning Digimon TCG, and it's been interesting, though coming from other games like Yugioh and Vanguard it does have some odd interaction rulings. Back on topic though, I feel like your comment was pretty fair, so thanks for sharing. :)

[@yourMoonstone]

@@morrisdarling115 hi!! thank you!! i been streaming the process on twitch the past couple years. im in the middle of putting together the tutorial video and website and all this other stuff because the game is actually gonna be in pre-release within a month! free tts demo and hoping to take it to gencon and other places with all the vids returning soon. thanks for asking and the kind words!! i hope you have a great day 💜

[@6seph9]

damn such salt

[@TheNickelGhost]

You're 100% on point when talking about randomness. I haven't played YGO (or any TCG really) for almost 20 years now, but looking at modern play, it seems like the entire game is governed by what combo starters (if going first) or disruption (if going second) are in your opening hand, and whichever player has the more optimal opening hand is going to win 95% of the time. The reason I walked out on MtG very fast was because I kept finding myself starved of lands or spells during a game, letting my opponent clobber me while I sat there powerless. And the only remedy for that problem offered by my (extremely impatient & unhelpful) local tables was "uhh just build your deck better lol". I know my experience was definitely soured by a local scene that refused to slow down for a new player, but being irreversibly screwed over by bad luck is what I remember as my biggest pain point. I guess getting into YGO is tolerable if you have friends who are willing to patiently walk you through the entire convoluted learning process, or maybe online play if you're OK with being indefinitely steamrolled while you desperately try to learn the meta, but lacking either of those, I can't imagine anyone looking at YGO as an outsider and having a good time

[@Xehnas]

I recently got 3-4 friends back into the game on master duel, albeit I doubt they will ever buy a paper deck. And I will say more is wrong pricing wise with the game in getting returning or new players to come back or to the game. 1) Combo has been too present since the mid-life span of pendelums. Though not the worst on initial release, PePe Basically broke the idea of what is acceptable in the game and ever since seemingly long winded turns became the norm rather than the exception. While this should be a possibility, in older formats overextension like we have in modern days wasn't as easy to pillow behind a series of interruptions and negates. Things like sword-soul are a nice aim for the average decks powerlevel to aim for, 2-3 interactions that are insanely consistent to achieve. The odd deck should definitely be able to combo, but not with the seeming fluidity of Snake Eyes. 2) Many archtypes they loved are useless without generic cards that are doomed to likely be banned/limited/etc. There are many popular archtypes that are lackluster from old formats that would really only need a card or two to become more viable. Give Bujin a card that specials yamato form deck and has the effect of kaiser colloseum while you control a beast-warrior bujin. Give E. Heroes more of a reason to build toward 1 type of hero deck rather than the hodge-podge they have right now. Give decks that work around banish more of an identity than Gren Maju and a prayer. I could list a ton, for every archtype yugioh has let fall into disrepair that is free marketing left to squander, because yugioh players tend to FAR more identify with their deck/archtype than most other card game players, even MTG players and their color preferences. 3) Lack of decks forced to go slow but given greater protection for it. One thing I have argued for a lot is decks that are more phobic of using other types/archtypes and forcing a lot more locks onto the player using them, but straight up giving them the level of protection miscellaneousaurus provides. The locks are to prevent them from splashing too much and becoming a new combo problem, and the insane level of protection is to actually let them learn to play baby level yugioh. Maybe getting to a single boss monster be it xyz, synchro, fusion, ritual or even tributed out. As long as the end result isnt too powerful a deck that is based on having a slow playstyle like this would be a miracle for newer players. Unfortunately the playerbase as it is wants nothing that would help people coming into the game. They are content with long winded combos choking new players out because they put the time into learning them, they don't care about old archtypes because they are spikes playing what is meta and/or never even played with the older decks to begin with. And lastly they would complain about the new decks I suggested being low skill, which NO DUH, again it would be something aimed at beginners/returners. So at this point I am a bit of a doomer hoping that if the VR game comes out we just get a full reboot and they go to support that instead.

[@lanterns_glow]

Number 3 wow be a godsend. I'm tired of decks that need to basically race to their end board in the first turn possible so there's no way to win without basically circumnavigation of the entire set-up

[@videakias3000]

the best way for yugioh to survive is through single player video games.

[@SuperFang1]

8:50 100% agree. I quit 5 years ago because it got too expensive for me to play competitively. It hurt seeing my lose value through reprints and the banlist.

[@mrmeow2297]

I’ll be honest. Me and my fiends only play with proxies. So we can have as much as we want. This sort of hobby is far too expensive in today’s economy otherwise.

[@josephcourtright8071]

How do you make your proxies. I'm looking for a way to make nice proxies so the Edison decks I use to teach the game could have the correct Edison text

[@jofx4051]

​@@josephcourtright8071Yugipedia? There would be gallery there too for old cards, reprints and erratad cards and infos on it

[@Tiosh]

You could just write on a piece of paper with a pen/pencil and slide it into a card sleeve.

[@williamdrum9899]

I buy my cards from the bargain bin at my game shop. It's a lot of digging but there's a few gems here and there

[@TheHairyHobbe69]

As a player for over two decades here's my take. If a veteran player can't play in thier casuals or group then how can new players play?, alot of the issues stem from lack of accessability where the average player you come across doesn't play for fun, but only has fun winning, it's a sad mentallity that a duelist won't play thier favorite deck or a creative deck, but instead copying something they see online. Most players can't afford to spend more than £50-£60 on a deck, also the lack of creativity for new archetypes and handtraps being the most common tech card in decks, it's also become boring to play the game due to lack of creative play and creative deck building. Personally, yugioh could adopt a domain style deck building mechanic whilst being allowed to play three of each card, this will stop most problematic top tier and tier zero decks from the past and now, also making people use a larger variety of cards due to the type and attribute limitations as well as the text limitation, this could help deal with the main deck boss monster issue as well. Yugioh can be simplified and made more accessable, but konami keep printing too many cards and prioritises the OCG over the TCG, i've spoken to OCG players and often the biggest issues they have is either the player base or the game being too expensive and the printing of over powered cards, the odd player every now and then wants a mechanic change to streamline the game into a fair building transistion.

[@ZackeroniAndCheese]

Playing solitaire for 15 minutes and seeing if your opponent drew the out isnt fun. Yugioh used to be fun. Time wizard events will be the future

[@DragonBallsolosyourverse]

Problem being, the existing community hates the older style of play They like yugioh for it's fast gameplay.

[@idontwantahandlewhymustidothis]

@@DragonBallsolosyourverse I'm trying to get into the game and the new way of playing is just inaccessible. The existing community may be there, but as someone who last played when synchros were brand new, the gameplay is fast and complicated to the point that I literally don't see the point in bothering because I know it's going to take months just to catch up. I'd rather play literally any other game than subject myself to that - and I got into Warhammer lol

[@fellowinternetstranger8700]

​@@DragonBallsolosyourverse and what's wrong with that exactly?

[@DragonBallsolosyourverse]

Whats wrong? That they prefer modern yugioh play style or that the old play style

[@fellowinternetstranger8700]

@DragonBallsolosyourverse "they like something I don't like so it's bad" lol lmao even

[@OtterSC2]

Good suggestions especially edison starter decks. As an mtg and pkmn player I'm never gonna play modern YGO but I would absolutely buy an Edison duel deck product to play with friends even if the price was completely outrageous.

[@TaroAndreas]

Really well thought out video. Nothing original here, but I grew up with the game and really wanted to play again. But I just couldn’t make it work. Text boxes longer than a chapter of LotR, a very tight meta, and steep prices made me nope out. I did meet some nice people though, and it’s cool to have some of the cards again. I would really consider going back if there were goat starter decks.