Why Nobody Plays Alternate Win Conditions

[@Lyremgg]

My favorite alternate win condition back in the day is my opponent getting called by their mom

[@fnln3011]

Unfortunately for Yugi most of the villains he faced were motherless

[@internetperson3436]

Called by the mom

[@techicolorslowpoke2702]

​@@internetperson3436Call of the Mother

[@M3rtyville]

Mine are Rage Quitting Opponent and Connection Lost

[@goonerbear8659]

The new hip modern alternate wincon is "Judge, smell my opponent."

[@patchworkgolem]

Ok, but if I heard someone at another table shout "ZEXAL FIELD!" I would run over even if I needed to concede the match I was in.

[@VanessaMagick]

An alternate win condition that splashes onto other tables? Yeah no wonder it's banned.

[@aquacat9912]

What’s the problem with zexal field💀💀

[@deathjr112]

@@aquacat9912first your opponent couldn’t activate any card effects against an XYZ the second effect automatically gives XYZ materials from your extra deck and the third being the easiest way to get and activate Shining Draw by drawing it normally

[@lemeres2478]

0:55 Just so you know: Yugi's Grandpa was a goddamned card shark. If you look at his deck, a pattern rises up. His decks is made up of weak fodder monsters- something you only summon in defense position to stall for time. He has a lot of cards that wipe out the opponent's field or lets you take their built up monsters, all so the opponent can't fill their board and wipe him out. And he has stuff like pot of greed. The entire point of his deck is that he pretends to be some weak old man, lets you gloat with you high attack point monsters, and the entire time he is fishing for Exodia. There is a freakin' reason why he got into a betting match with the richest young sucker in town.

[@dualia-s74m]

He even got copies of Backup Soldier. The old man was onto something.

[@painvillegaming4119]

Man must have had the worst brick of all bricks

[@plant3341]

You mean his grandfather's deck *intentionally* had pathetic cards?

[@ytsuxmuhd4998]

​@@plant3341 Turns out Kaiba was still right all along.

[@Mr.Squidye]

Kaiba forced him to duel at the start tho

[@TheSpiralCurse]

The funniest part about Venominaga is that you're probably gonna have so many reptiles in grave getting it out and doing standard reptile things you're gonna hit so hard with it you'll kill your opponent before you get the 3 Hyper Venom counters

[@autobotstarscream765]

It's like they built her around cards like Twin Swords of Flashing Light - Tryce that give more attacks in exchange for _reducing_ ATK.

[@arnaudmaindron6141]

I played it a bit in master duel with ogdoadics, turns out you won't have that many, to the point she gets destroyed by battle, so her protections aren't that great, I ended up removing her and playing full ogdoadic or part aliens

[@Bill2bearockstar]

In "Yugioh world championship 2008" you need to win the duel by Venominaga's alternative win condition and exactly as you point out. I had to adjust my deck to not kill my opponent with battle damage to actually get the alternative condition.

[@pokebot451gonbow5]

Any other puzzle or challenges like that in the video games, and you're the Chazz for doing so

[@TheSpiralCurse]

​@@Bill2bearockstar I had to do that on dueling nexus to get a Vennominaga avatar, had to deal with people scooping on top of that

[@inquisitrmikey7920]

In simple terms. Instant win decks are one trick ponies that if it fails, it catastrophically fails. The modern game has so many interruptions, floodgates, and negates that brings that catastrophic failure to life almost all of the time.

[@ButFirstHeLitItOnFire]

On the flip side, if they win consistently, it’s a sign that something is wrong with the game. They either _win_ big or _lose_ big.

[@DrDrao]

​​@@ButFirstHeLitItOnFireThere's been a few, like scientist, frog, firewall, and pendulum ftks, but usually that's due to burn cards not alt win. The most meta relavant alt win deck is probably final countdown, which was a rouge option for years. Last turn was probably around that level too.

[@matthewpopow6647]

But, what is i just include 5 bricks in my deck in case I draw all of them and pigs fly

[@tnuhenaj3752]

I think there incentive for konami to make them always inviable since with almost all of these losing to them would feel kinda bad. Its almost impossible to balance them in a way where they are just decent, not good or bad. So its better to make them bad rather than good cause a consistent alternate win condition deck would make a lot of people mad going against. Also a lot of their playstyles are often boring or degenerate.

[@vonakakkola]

@@ButFirstHeLitItOnFire it's fun what you said because even if alternative win conditions are not consistently, still there's something wrong in this game

[@hissori2978]

Short answer, modern duels end on turn 3.

[@humanbeans4498]

Seems super unfun

[@kylemartin6343]

​@@humanbeans4498it's the reason I only play with my friends

[@naturetime3823]

Yeah now one player spends 80% of the total game time drawing, stacking, and summoning just to absolutely demolish their opponent within 3 turns. Absolutely ludicrous.

[@wilbo_baggins]

​​@@humanbeans4498you can play master duel and see how unfun it is. It's become a game that "oh you don't have a million negates and destroy effects turn 1? Too bad"

[@zytha2890]

@@wilbo_baggins they need to errata a lot of the new cards tbh they dont even have a real functioning game at this point

[@themaverick427]

I might be mistaken but another reason Victory Dragon was banned was that some tournaments apparently ruled that if Victory Dragon was in your deck you could play game 3 even if you lost the first two games. Because if you resolve the effect of Victory Dragon in game 3 you can still technically win the match despite going 1-2. So it was annoying for adding extra games to a tournament that otherwise wouldn't need to be played.

[@sanctheanimator]

O mean, makes sense

[@caw...]

you could also concerned before the attack and you won't lose the set

[@novacorponline]

Wouldn't the natural counter argument be more or less "The other player's victory conditions have already been met. The match ends as soon as one set of victory conditions are met, not when all possible victory conditions have been exhausted."

[@SHADE45]

Or to make it super easy: Game 3 starts "K I surrender you win game 3."

[@carlitos366]

​@SHADE45 lol right. If you're up 2-0 just concede the last made up match.

[@AncientIdol]

Flying Elephant is such a weird and bizarre card that does not belong in the time and age it was released. In fact, you can tell from its extremely crude art that it's a very ancient card, and it turns out it is! It was featured in one of the first episodes from the anime as part of a flashback, used by Pegasus vs. Bandit Keith. The effect it has is reminiscent of that same battle. I don't know why they chose to release a card like that, with that effect adn that artwork in 2018, more than 15 years after it may have been useful in one way or another. I am a sucker for its artwork though.

[@TurtleMarcus]

You could describe Flying Elephant's effect as trying to "reverse engineer" an effect, within the parametres of the official rules, which would make Pegasus win that duel, keeping in mind that the game basically had no consistent rules in the manga & anime at that point. (In the series, Flying Elephant "dogdes" Fissure, then attacks and wins the game.)

[@obviouslyanonymous]

​@@TurtleMarcusalmost certainly the explanation lmao

[@disguisedcat1750]

I was looking at it thinking where have I seen this? Im sure I have seen him somewhere… apparently I did.

[@ScrambledAndBenedict]

@@TurtleMarcus It's funny too. An 1850 attack 4 star monster that also has a protection effect with no cost is a pretty solid card in its own right. That'd be worth having in any Beast or Wind deck. The funky instant-win condition is so superfluous lol

[@tylermorrison6335]

Man, i got victory dragon from a shonen jump promo when i was a kid! Once i learned the distinction between a duel and a match, i kept trying to challenge friends to a match so i could make victory dragon work. I didn't really put it together that when you're playing casuals, the distinction doesn't matter.

[@psigreen3864]

you feel like you just won 3x more but your opponent is just confused 😅

[@MildChunkySalsa]

I remember getting it from a shonen jump too, I was less looking forward to the card a more looking forward to the Sasuke vs Danzig fight in that issue lmao

[@fgregerfeaxcwfeffece]

Last turn reminds me of "Show and Tell" it's a magic the Gathering card that says: Each player may put an artifact, creature, enchantment, or land card from their hand onto the battlefield. It's not an instant and a bit more interactive. But in decks where you would play it you would use insanely expensive cards you intend to cheat out like this. It also has fun flavor text: At the academy, "show and tell" too often becomes "run and hide."

[@Oxygen1004]

When I see show and tell I always think of that one scene from I believe Jimmy Neutron "This is the 4th time you've shown Emrakul/Omniscience this week"

[@Ebani]

Iirc it's from one of the mock card sets that came out right? The art in those cards was great 😂

[@ich3730]

@@Ebani no show and tell is from "urzas saga" a normal MTG set

[@abefaerber7994]

​@@ich3730just goes to show how wild Urza's Saga was!

[@paradoxzee6834]

Last Turn it's a card that started in the anime, it was used in a major duel. Of corse when you are writing the story it's much easyer to make a card like this one

[@novacorponline]

You know, the Jackpot 7 sounds like it could make an interesting bluff shield. As soon as your opponent becomes aware that they could instantly lose if they clear your magic/trap zone, they may become reluctant to do so. Probably more effective in casual play where players have less confidence though.

[@Triforce_of_Doom]

oh god yeah even getting one out could make for some INSANE mindgames depending on the opponent

[@yat282]

Back when I used to play, I loved making decks with alternate win conditions. Final Countdown was BY FAR the most consistent.

[@xxnetherxx1]

Of course it is because either you survived the 20 turns or you didn't.

[@milhousevanhoutan9235]

@@xxnetherxx1It works 50% of the time, all the time!

[@kerkertrandov459]

It was so boring tho

[@Anywaz]

Regarding Victory Dragon: In the OCG, conceding is not allowed entirely, making the Victory Dragon ban there absolutely legit

[@ziggystardust1973]

I've seen some lists of a no banlist tournament from china, everybody was rynning Victory Dragon. Bringing it out after completly shutting down your opponemt going first is just too easy

[@mateusrp1994]

More specifically, there were no official rules at all about forfeit procedures, only the unofficial "gentleman's agreement" that both players have to agree to a forfeit. Which also could mean a player could get forced to play out a losing game instead of scooping so their opponent could stall for time or get more deck knowledge, although that was rare and obviously scummy.

[@啊啊啊啊-m4s]

@@ziggystardust1973I think in the recent tournaments Tearlaments abandoned Victory Dragon, since they certainly don’t want to mill it, and they are also confident enough about winning 2 games in a row against Victory Dragon decks.

[@ziggystardust1973]

@@啊啊啊啊-m4s Yeah, I think the thibg about no banlist tournaments is that you can assume any deck can win going first, but tearlamemts can also win going second. With Victory Dragon you can win by just winning when you go first even if you lose the coin toss

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

@@mateusrp1994 "Forced to play the game" is such an obnoxious way to vilify the notion of not hating Yugioh.

[@Megamanlanprime]

Well… it should be noted that Exodia is the reason why many Draw cards have so many restrictions - like being unable to use Draw effects, banishing from the deck, and other play restrictions more than anything else. For those who don’t know, before it came out in the TCG, the OCG actually had a Tier 0 Exodia format thanks to having all the pieces at 3 + 3 Pot of Greed, Graceful Charity, Sangan and Witch of the Black Forest which at the time didn’t have to be sent from the Field to the GY, just touch the GY to search. Generally it sounded like it was a lot of FTK’s to Exodia and it was insane.

[@Ghi102]

It's not though. Draw effects would make decks in general so consistent that you could probably OTK your opponent with any modern deck.

[@wastelandcloud4355]

If rise of the snake deity was a quick play spell it wouldnt be horrible. You could snake rain, viper rebirth the king, end phase viper rebirth destroys by effect and chain rise. It is still a 3 card combo but for an instant win con and fodder for queens revival effect in grave it would be a lot more playable.

[@thanoseid2883]

agreed.

[@GatsbyCioffi]

The hardest thing about winning with Vennominaga's effect is not killing my opponent before inflicting battle damage 3 times, lol

[@SoundFantasy]

OCG victory dragon was much more powerful because opponents aren’t allowed to individually concede. It has to be an agreement. So this card is pretty nuts in no banlist tournaments there.

[@bradenlinnell8276]

"yeah, you got this. Gg?" "No I want to combo"

[@algotkristoffersson15]

Why is there any difference in the rules at all depending on where you are, why can’t the TCG literally just be the OCG but in English.

[@bestaround3323]

​@algotkristoffersson15 cards and rules get tweaked when they get ported over. Translation takes time so the OCG is ahead of the TCG.

[@algotkristoffersson15]

@@bestaround3323 But magic releases worldwide, why can't yugioh

[@Aliens1337]

Victory Dragon sets up a very toxic play pattern. The player who is already winning will not end the game cleanly. As long as they aren’t at risk of losing, they’d rather prolong the game and wait until they can attack with Victory Dragon. On the other hand, the losing player has to concede out of frustration, or risk opponents getting out a Victory Dragon. Not fun on neither side.

[@DarthNash6]

“WHY NO ONE PLAYS” IS BACK LETS GOOOOOO

[@Justgottaadamup]

Man it’s nice to see a classic Dzeeff style video after so long, don’t get me wrong I love duel videos but these explanation videos bring me back to the ol days.

[@Magmagan]

O shit dxeef was the spheal youtuber, I was wondering why he disappeared from my recs! I barely even played some yugioh videogames, but I love hearing about this crazy tcg. Love to see more informational content of his ❤

[@metalmariomega]

The best "Instant Win" cards are ones that have other things they can actually do like Ghostrick Angel of Mischief. Exodia got a bunch of support that helps you do things if you don't get to all 5 pieces in 1 turn, but unfortunately Deep Draw and combo plays using the pieces as fodder are more effective, despite still not doing enough. Destiny Board's support also helps out its win condition but clogs up your board to do it making it REALLY hard to do well with. And Last Turn is such a gigantic headache that it got banned just so they wouldn't have to prime judges on how it works, but it is probably close to viable at FORCING DRAWS at the very least, something like Lady can allow you to trigger Big Welcome from GY to get an opponent's monster off the field on top of being a 3k beater that can get another random monster off the field to win if necessary.

[@augustgremaud2738]

I actually did win a duel with Disaster Leo years ago in YGOPro, but it was a slow matchup - usually that just wasn’t an option. The rank up magic card the deck hinged on is banned now for unrelated reasons, so it’s not really replicable now.

[@Pikapuff30]

If you’re talking about Argent Chaos Force, they unbanned it a while ago

[@thanoseid2883]

@@Pikapuff30 I'm glad they did. banning it crushed many decks that used it.

[@Pimaster31415]

Number iC1000 looks like a fan card we all made as 10 year olds. Its a rank 13 that has 10000 attack. That's like every little kid's custom card lol.

[@AuthenticHD]

I had a sick deck back in the day based on Final Countdown/Lava Golem and keeping 3 Labyrinth Walls on the field whenever possible

[@facundoperrotta8899]

11:25 12:48 Leo and Disaster Leo in the anime had better protections and better wins conditions. Leo: "Cannot be destroyed by battle, except with a "Number" monster. Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card. If this card has detached all of its Xyz Materials by its own effect, you win the Duel." Disaster Leo: "Cannot be destroyed by battle except with "Number" monsters. This card is unaffected by other monster effects. If this card is Xyz Summoned by Ranking Up "Number 88: Gimmick Puppet of Leo", it gains these effects. ● Once per turn: You can detach 1 Xyz Material from this card; inflict 4000 damage to your opponent. At the end of the turn, if this card has no Xyz Materials, you win the Duel."

[@jadenknott]

Iirc the destroyed only by a number was an... """"Archetypal"""" effect for numbers (due to some i think lore reasons) but the effect didn't carry over due to the obvious problematic and overencompassing nature of it

[@lisaruhm6681]

@@jadenknott yes.

[@thanoseid2883]

@@jadenknott what's problematic and over-encompassing about that effect?

[@jadenknott]

@@thanoseid2883 being a towers for non-number monsters would be really overtuned especially when we consider cards like big eye or other strong numbers that I'm failing to remember exist, especially in the zexal era and if you yourself don't have a number or the ability to make a number it kind of exemplifies the point I am discounting raidraptor and shock master for obvious reasons

[@thanoseid2883]

@@jadenknott the effect just prevents battle destruction. Some numbers can’t be destroyed by battle anyway making this moot.

[@jessespence696]

Victory Dragon has the same issue and Mindslaver effects in magic the gathering. Mind Slaver lets you take over your opponent's turn, but while they have the turn they can look at your sideboard because they get any information you have access to. Which means most opponents forfeit on if they don't want their sideboard options spied on.

[@QuinnActually]

as of two weeks ago, Mindslaver no longer allows you to view the sideboard lol: - Controlling a player doesn’t allow you to look at that player’s sideboard. If an effect instructs that player to choose a card from outside the game, you can’t have that player choose any card.

[@jessespence696]

@@QuinnActually next thing you know, "Mind slaver doesn't allow you to put commanders in exile". So when are they going to allow you to Phyrexian Revoker tokens like treasures or clues?

[@Reluxthelegend]

1:50 Exodia was Tier 0 in the OCG in 1999, that should at least be mentioned

[@geekygamer3954]

My grandfather's deck has no pathetic cards!

[@of_devon5674]

As weevil chucks them in the ocean

[@mateusrp1994]

Would have been fun to mention how Exodia was tier 0 and invented the Limited and Semi-Limited List in 1999 OCG because everyone ran 3 pog 3 graceful and Sangan had a misprint that allowed it to activate when sent from hand, and also that the first distribution of the exodia head caused the Tokyo Dome Riot of 1999.

[@autobotstarscream765]

All of that sounds like a whole separate video. In fact, I believe I watched that video and it was glorious. 😎

[@Zanji1234]

Sangan and witch didn't had "a misprint" ... they were just written so that they trigger the effect regardless from were they hit the graveyard (even from Deck). That wasn't a "misprint" that was how the cards where played back then.

[@Zanji1234]

there exist a "history of ygo meta" or so in youtube which shows the early OCG Meta decks and has a full special about Exodia and the riot. @@autobotstarscream765

[@i_i8924]

Even semi-limited, Exodia was pretty solid until Yata if my memory serves me right

[@konstantink7310]

Tokyo Dome Riot ? 😂😂😂

[@Throrma]

Last Turn is actually a thing in goat. It's quite easy to manipulate your lp and stop/stun your opponent. Also if it doesn't go well, then just push the self destruction button and just try it again. Also you could simply fix the original concept of Last Turn by printing on it 'negate all card effects in the gy and on the field also other cards or effects cannot be activated for the rest of this duel'. Well then still there would be the problem with monsters that are unaffected by cardeffects.

[@tuvillo]

Runick deckout (and even Janemba deckout in DBS TCG) demonstrate what's needed for alternate win conditions to be good. The deck needs to be good regardless of it, and the alternate win condition game plan also kinda needs to come at no cost to the normal game plan. In One Piece TCG we now have a deck that decks itself out to win, but it's bad because it doesn't have a normal game plan, mostly only the deckout plan, and even if you try a normal game plan, your deckout plan comes at a very large cost to it.

[@Dyllon2012]

I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. Magic has Thoracle in cEDH which works because there is one other card that makes it very easy to deck yourself out. Decks focusing on this win generally don’t focus on any other way of winning and just focus on assembling and protecting (counterspells) the combo. However, I think it’s definitely the case that such good alt-win combos are generally a bad sign for the health of a TCG. These things mostly exist in cEDH because the rules committee of EDH focuses on casual play IMO.

[@Wsxmoe]

In Runeterra there is the alternative win condition card Star Spring that wins you the game if you have healed 22+ health on your cards on the field. I liked that around the time it came out and a while after you could play decks with healing in it that were both viable with and without it being played. These days however there is so much removal it's borderline impossible to use it anymore

[@animeking1357]

I've been playing a Destiny Heroes Exodia deck recently. You do the hero stuff as normal while playing draw cards like Destiny Draw and the bamboo sword cards to get the exodia pieces. Opponent thinks you're just digging your deck for combo pieces while you fulfill the win condition. If it gets ruined you still end up with Destiny Hero extra deck monsters on the field. Not the best by any means but it's really fun.

[@tuvillo]

Right yeah Soraka Tahm was my go-to deck@@Wsxmoe

[@kevincapote82]

@@WsxmoeFiona win con is probably the easiest win con I've ever seen

[@WolfPhoenix0]

Out of all these, Final Countdown is probably the easiest to win with provided you can draw the card early enough. If there's a way to give your opponent one of your set spell/trap cards, Relay Soul could be absolutely devastating though.

[@AndersonWave17]

Pyro clock of destiny 👍

[@kyuubinaruto17]

@@AndersonWave17 Pyro Clock of Destiny just isn't worth playing. The issue isn't that it doesn't work with Final Countdown, it's that anything it does can be done better by other cards. I don't know modern stall cards as an old-school player, but cards like Waboku, Threatening Roar, Messenger of Peace, Gravity Bind,etc, are just more beneficial in the long run because they can be used anytime and serve a purpose on the field by protecting your life points or stopping attacks even if you haven't yet drawn Final Countdown. So it's either a dead card until you draw Final Countdown, or it's a card that is too underpowered to use because all it does is add one counter to FC. It does nothing to ensure you stay in the game.

[@ich3730]

@@kyuubinaruto17 ye but its funny xD If you are playing final countdown turbo, might as well play pyro clock for the meme

[@EgoChip]

I can't hear you say "Venominom" without the Muppet''s theme tune playing in my head.

[@snakeEyedPirate]

Doot doooo doo-doo-doo! Venominom! Doot doo-doo dooo!

[@cerberos1]

Angel of Mischief is the card I used to get the alternate wincon and ftk mission done in master duel Just play a normal lyrilusc tri-brigade deck and add kinka byo, angel of mischief and reprodocus to it If you have the ftk (around 50% of the time) you do it if you don't or your opponent have a hand-trap you just play normally and make utopic draco future + nightingale and Robin It just add a free ftk to an already good deck without having to play bricks in the main deck

[@mistriousfrog]

I was surprised how dismissive he was of angel of mischief for this reason. I can’t say it was ever really competitive, but in the realm of alternative win cons, it is right up there with exodia in getting about a 50% win chance.

[@renaldyhaen]

Instant Win card is usually in a side deck when you already what the opponent is playing. Just draw Duster or Droll, then depending on the match up, you can instant win with that.

[@AraumC]

As an MTG player who loves alternate wincons except for the too many times Thoracle steals games, this is wild to me.

[@ananmaysahu4563]

they're more viable in mtg because control is an actual thing separate from stax that the set design team don't need to nerf to make the game fun.

[@vesselunknown7961]

I have literally never played yu-gi-oh but this video is still entertaining and it’s 11;16 at night so good job have my watch time

[@admiralalyssa]

Back in my day, the only thing that could stop instant-win strategies was dino beatdown. Those darn Mirror forces and Swords of Revealing Light... Oh, my hip...

[@Xidphel]

Fun fact: Destiny Board used to spell out a word so evil, so foul, that they had to censor it twice to get it past standards. Now it just says FINAL.

[@taliyah6275]

BUSSY

[@svenkrules9855]

People who plays Exodia competitively are those who truly believes in the Heart of the Cards

[@bchavez149]

On Venominaga, the first release of the card, "Rise of the Snake Deity" had text that said you could summon Venominaga if Venominon was "Destroyed" I don't think it was intended to work that way, the OCG probably had it correct, but later on we got the correct text. If it was an errata, that's cruel, lol.

[@GatsbyCioffi]

It never worked when Vennominon was destroyed by battle, cause you can't activate a normal trap card in the damage step. That errata was just clarifying text.

[@bchavez149]

@@GatsbyCioffi I pride myself in being able to decipher the text soup on these cards for my friends and my own enjoyment, but I never even considered that being the reason why it was worded that way before. I appreciate that homie.

[@tonyzaJimbob]

very interesting and informative video, thank you! i for one still use a few decks with alternate win methods and some are pretty fun, like a jackpot 7 deck or a meme thorn mail deck (someone attacks me and hurts themselves) always interesting to learn more about a game i loved growing up and still love. great job on the video!

[@GlacierMoonDragon]

Ghostrick Angel of Mischeif imo has the most competitive style of win con. So it could potentially be a top Deck.

[@olliezoop]

It is a god damned crime that we don't get to play with funko pop exodia in TCG regions

[@williamdrum9899]

As hilariously bonkers as Yugioh is, I have to give them credit for getting this right. Magic The Gathering didn't maintain the default win condition as the easiest way to win, and that creates a few problems. (At least in Commander format the easiest way to win by far is to deck yourself out and use one of the cards that causes you to win instead of losing from this)

[@suddenllybah]

FFA are really hard to be fair, particularly when there is absolute transparency.

[@fluffyninja3467]

No kidding. I'm looking at my Thassa's Oracle deck and the closest we have to compare here is Snake Deities and elephants apparently 🤣 Amazing how diverse card games can be lmao

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

Generally, the default win condition IS the easiest way to win in MtG. The exceptions to the rule are extremely rare, ESPECIALLY when you count the number of alternate win conditions that exist in MtG compared to Yugioh. There are something like 100 different alternate win conditions in MtG, and almost none of them are actually viable.

[@williamdrum9899]

@@dontmisunderstand6041 I'd argue Demonic Consultation + Thassa's Oracle is easier than doing 20 damage

[@Pl4ntE]

I don't think it's really that accurate to compare a casual format with significant rule changes (plus the expectation of most playgroups adding a few house rules) to the regular constructed format. Commander isn't even 1v1 usually.

[@cooldeadpunk777]

Real ones know this was uploaded yesterday

[@Dzeeff]

😅

[@mikekang5186]

😮 You mean the ones with money to toss 😂

[@TsuikeNovaus]

@@mikekang5186 It was uploaded yesterday and then taken back down

[@rachelmiller8127]

Lol, I saw that too. Meant to hit schedule instead didn't you Doug?

[@theponystark]

I got halfway through yesterday before it stopped playing for me

[@eheroairman]

Well to be fair the last defender exodia was literally only made to mimic the anime events in which it attempted to destroy Zorc (a dark fiend) which futher solidifies the card’s shittiness because it failed to do so

[@klaystaccs]

After all these years I finally know what Victory Dragon’s effect means 😅

[@WackoMcGoose]

"Exodia, Obliterate", Grian said calmly. _Smallishbeans was smited by Exodia_ _Grian was smited by Exodia_ _xBCrafted was smited by Exodia_ _Keralis1 was launched into orbit by Exodia_

[@lexruptor]

😂 The Hermitcraft Memes, YAAAASSSSSS!!!!

[@AllBeganwithBBS]

The F.A. win condition was something I really tried to accomplish for so long, but I never managed to pull it off against any remotely competent deck. Shame.

[@keyonj8815]

I really wish we got a venominaga retrain that was easier to summon and kept the protection and revival but lost the win condition

[@thanoseid2883]

or just fix the trap. problem is venom decks need more support as the deck is pretty much useless now.

[@Kvh47]

Seems like these alternate win conditions are mainly made to make some anime duels more interesting.

[@AntiNihilist]

I STILL remember getting Last Turn AND Final Countdown more than 10 years ago and being SO confused at wtf they were saying so i never used it. It looks cool tho

[@lostsoup]

For exodia just one card "Heart Of The Underdog" and run a bunch of vanilla monsters

[@waldoman7]

Yes except you must draw heart of the underdog, play it, end your turn, and somehow survive the opponent's turn with only normal monsters, and not losing underdog. So you'll win about 5% of the time if you did this when Underdog was released and .1% in the modern meta. Now, if you add just a couple other cards that synergies with it, even at cost of slightly slowing down underdog, it might be conceivable to get something that could do decent at a small local tournament back in the day

[@Vladd0r]

It's funny, how in Hearthstone some also call this deck type "Exodia Deck".

[@existinginaspace8347]

My younger brother had an absolutely cracked out Venomanaga deck. It was the first deck he consistently smacked me around with.

[@CaTastrophy427]

In a casual tournament I was part of, Victory Dragon got banned bc someone playing a Victory Dragon deck argued that they should be allowed to play the third game in the match despite losing 2-0 because they could still win the whole match if they got a direct attack win with it (as rules of the card trump rules of the game).

[@Bomberman204]

I'm glad someone finally explained Last Turn's ability to be activated with Jowgen on the field to me (it's still stupid and doesn't make sense, but at least I know now it has a "Special Ruling" 🙄). I was really upset when I was told I couldn't Card Destruction or Disturbance Strategy while I controlled Protector of the Sanctuary after I thought I came up with the ultimate combo 😅 so Last Turn + Jowgen seemed like it would fall under the same ruling, and would never work.

[@themaverick427]

The Protector of the Sanctuary combo does work if you activate something like Card Destruction while Protector of the Sanctuary is not on the field and then chain a card that would summon Protector of the Sanctuary (Like Call of the Haunted).

[@Bomberman204]

@@themaverick427 Lol yes, I am aware 😂 just wasn't as easy as activating it like Last Turn + Jowgen. I definitely used Call of the Haunted and Ceasefire in attempts to make the combo still work. But it's normally a one trick pony, often times your opponent will Ash your Trickstar Reincarnation / Disturbance Strategy before you chain whatever you plan to get Protector of the Sanctuary face up on the field. Still a fun combo on an unexpecting opponent.

[@TheArchfiendGuy]

Destiny Board will forever be my favourite alternate win condition. It's just so cool

[@maxthebear7765]

If you set relay soul to your opponent’s field, you can force it with Bait Doll and easily win the duel if they have a monster in their hand

[@dhesh0066]

Im always down for some classic Dzeeff content!

[@aice336]

i play only final countdown decks for years already ... there is nothing as fun as watching your opponent try to breach but just cant and u arent even swetting .. just waiting for the time to be up for him .. lovely

[@kennydarmawan13]

In MtG, instant win cards are much more bearable. They sometimes play alongside your game plan. For example, Test of Endurance is a must-have for life gain decks and with cards like Scavenging Ooze and Weather the Storm, you're already guaranteed to reach that much of a life total. Revel in Riches synergizes with treasure decks, and Hellkite Tyrant boils down to playing so many cheap artifact spells while also hating on your opponent's artifact decks. Then, you have Thassa's Oracle just screwing around with mill decks (for your benefit).

[@SovannT92]

Victory Dragon brought out all the sooks and crybabies

[@justaguy6133]

I think the reason why everyone prefer Exodia's alternate win condition than the rest is because your opponent will not see it coming most of the time. If you use Destiny Board, for example, your opponent will definitely know what you're up to and they will try to counter it at the best they could to screw you. Exodia is instant and can't be negated. Same with Holactie, but she is more of a showoff than an actual strat. If you can pull out all 3 Egyptian Gods in the field, you must have a really dominant position on the duel, and using it doesn't make sense at all rather than showoff.

[@1doom1000]

That last one feels like a bootleg Exodia attacking you instead of your opponent

[@danih.5675]

As an mtg and yugioh player, i love telling my mtg friends how crazy some of the rulings on the cards are in comparison

[@reaper5242]

I put exodia in every deck I make just because it's funny

[@TheDanishGuyReviews]

I have Final Countdown. I love an alternate win condition, and Exodia and Destiny Board both have a collection problem. I am still missing a couple of both, two decades later.

[@ladyilex]

Wait, I watched this before it was taken down yesterday, I noticed you fixed the Jackpot 7 segment to have the Dark Scorpion Burglars combo instead of the Cliff one 🧐

[@aloeverah3150]

the thing about alternate win conditions is they have so many requirements for the win condition.

[@petersmythe6462]

They're very difficult to balance. They're likely to either be powerful enough to be banned in competive play, or niche enough never to see competitive play.

[@DustyGlandon]

Last Turn with Illusion monsters would be funny.

[@o7_AP]

0:27 I love how this wording of Exodia says you "CAN" declare victory with Exodia, implying you can get them all in hand and choose to keep the duel going. Or not declare victory until later in the game. (Before anyone comments I have no clue how this was actually ruled)

[@Zanji1234]

Last Turn Deck where played VERY much during early ygo since you basically hadn't much out to the deck and getting low LP was easy enough with "Inspection" that let you pay 500 lp during the Standby Phase of your opponement to lock at one of your opponements cards in hand.

[@astrealove1]

When it comes to most card games, gimmick cards are usually too slow and/or too clunky to play. The less consistent a card is, the harder they are to use, which in turn mean they'll see less play.

[@goestrick9225]

Ghostrick Angel of Mischief also works with Ghostrick Renovation! With ‘perfect’ conditions. You can summon Mischief(3), attach 1(4), renovate it, and then summon a second mischief(6), mischief effect(7) and then finally shot for number 8. Leaving mischief holding 8 materials, in a single turn.

[@Damini368]

“Why nobody plays” I’m not sure how I feel about you calling me a nobody, because it’s true, but it’s still rather rude of you to call me out like this.

[@SicilianAmericanDreams]

The answer to the title questions is obvious but it doesn't matter, I still love to see new dzeeff content 😅

[@OmegaVideoGameGod]

They say an average yugioh game is 2-5 turns so that would explain why.

[@chengliu872]

I feel like it is hard to make a alt win condition card that isn't so inconsistent that it is unplayable but not so consistent that it is banned.

[@TheRealWalt]

I love Numeronius Numeronia. It just goes way too overkill not to enjoy it. Not to mention that normal Numeronius is probably more than enough to beat your opponent.

[@hijackthat974]

Last turn + jowgen was OP. This Is still doable in GOAT mode xD

[@JoseDorda]

My guess before watching the video: alternative win cons normally need to multiple turns to be achieve, yu gi oh games just end to fast for them, they may also lack consistancy by relaying on highrolls.

[@afeathereddinosaur]

I wont even lie, F.A Winners has come up in my Master Duel F.A experience. Not as a win-con but as a F.A. spell activation. I was in a duel where the opponent's monster had a ton of attack and some base amount of protection, that was single handlely keeping me away from winning the duel before they recovered enough resources to make a difference. F.A winners effects was the one last effect I was able to get that turn, I got to run over the fake towers and eventually get him next turn.

[@jamescopeland6802]

if you ever don't feel old remember exodia came out in 2002.

[@telefeeb1]

A mythical ruling from my childhood involved “earth chant” and “contract with the abyss” Since the original text said “ritual summon an earth (or dark with contract) monster” but didn’t explicitly mention RITUAL monster so we thought you could use it to summon ANY earth monster. So my friend would ritual summon perfectly ultimate great moth

[@i_i8924]

Honorable mention to Self-Destruct Button, I drew so many games with it. If you can steal a game (transform sideboard into burn) then you could draw till end of time to win match (at least old competitive rules).

[@648]

This video was a lot of fun, thanks for comprising these cards!

[@theworldofpanda6559]

judgment dragon is still a funny win condition. "nope, 3k Lp, now try again. nope, 3k Lp, now try again. nope, 3k Lp, gg"

[@jasonblankenship6076]

I remember taking an OTk Exodia deck to tournaments in 2015/16 that played majority of spell/legal draw cards to draw him out in one turn it inc royal magical library , upstart, one day of peace DarkWorld dealings ect. It also used the Toon BEWD (Toon Tables as well as Vanilla BEWD and trade ins, it had a solid 60-80% win rate

[@zouwu4487]

No lie that legendary defender exodia world slip into my old Duston/goblin Kinng deck so easily. Used to flood the opponents field with 0/0 fiends

[@seekertosecrets7618]

18:33 I got a 3 copies of this card when I started playing F.A. Monsters. It has a purpose in the deck because it counts as an F.A. Spell card to increase the level of the monsters. The biggest problem is that it's symbiotic. If all the F.A. monsters are destroyed, then this card will be vulnerable to be destroyed. It can also be removed from the field from non destruction effects that just sends the card s to the graveyard. So if any one plays this card on the field, they will have to at least have 3 cards in the hand, field, or GY ready and stall for the next 3 turns. 20:08 The biggest problem with this card is that unless you give an opponent a Dark Fiend monster or turn all the monsters on the field into Dark fiend monsters, it's a huge beatstick with no protection. The only way you can successfully pull that off is to activate the field spell Lair of Darkness and use any cards that actually tributes monsters on the field. Then, you have to just have Exodia Defender to destroy 1 Dark Fiend Monster. You don't have to do any damage. You just have to take it down. 20:34 Oh, I hate this fu-king card! This card is a beech! If you can't find a way to take it down on the turn you have to attack it, then you lose the game. 22:43 How in the hell? Moving it left to right? I get that, but how in the world can you move this card clockwise?

[@katekat7804]

i feel like using a deck with true exodia designed specifically to make your opponent win would be the funniest deck you can make

[@AryaPlus]

Apparently you can FTK with it by using cards that move it to your opponent's field while you have the pieces of exodia since the loser is whoever "controls" it not the original owner of the card

[@andrewkost2625]

last turn sounds like a duel in smashup, very interesting mechanic

[@jshtng78]

Konami just needs to make the same design mistake that Wizards made with Thassa's Oracle. The fact that they haven't shows that the competence gap between the two companies is much smaller than YGO players like to yap about. The support Exodia needs is a "Exodia Superfan" card with the effect that it gains 2k Attack Points for each piece of Exodia in the hand, deck or graveyard when normal summoned and can attack directly if it has 6k or more total Attack Points.

[@ducklett01god]

There is a card slightly like that the legendary exodia incarnate it summoned only by tributing a exodia limb card and gains 1000 for every exodia in the graveyard and each turn it brings back a exodia card to yourself hand and when it goes to the graveyard you can reveal all the exodia cards in your hand and draw cards equal to the amount of exodia cards in your hand

[@f.ah.c2114]

Angel of mischief saw play in 2021 as small ftk option in bird up decks. It even topped a Germal regional.

[@joehughes5438]

When I was in high-school my mums friend dumped all their old cards on me. I had a field day with it making a deck built around final countdown. I even added my own gimmick because it was near unbeatable by my friends. The gimmick being that I have to somehow get 20 counters onto it before the song the final countdown by Europe finishes

[@Felnal]

Fairly certain the reason why Creator of Miracles wasn't successful is because it's one of those "This card cannot be used in a Duel" cards.

[@starburst98]

Maxx C with exodia vs someone doing an infinite special summon loop.

[@woodwire7150]

Video so good it had to be uploaded twice

[@Stro2101]

If I remember you can actually FTK with Angel of Mischief using Lyrilusc deck. There is a combo that do it consistently as long your opponent doesn't have hand traps. Also it can still do their regular Lyrilusc combos. However if you add the FTK package, the deck will be more inconsistent than a regular Lyrilusc deck.

[@OmegaVideoGameGod]

Most people don’t know how to use lyrilusc